[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]

/jp/ - Otaku Culture

View post   
  [?]In ghost mode, only threads with non-archived posts will be shown
File: 25 KB, 373x347, bernkastel as planned.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4001077 No.4001077 [Reply] [Original]

Episode 5 solved:
1. At the beginning, Eva and friends talk about how they want Natsuhi to admit that Kinzo is dead.
2. They hatch a plan: they will fake a murder mystery in which Natsuhi is the only possible culprit in order to force her to confess to her deception.
3. Someone (this would probably take a lot more analysis to figure out who) took advantage of the situation to conduct an *actual* murder.

Evidence:
1. NATSUHI DID NOT SEE THE "CORPSES" OF THE FOUR VICTIMS IN THE GUEST HOUSE. There WERE no victims in the guest house: everyone there made it up as part of the plan. Erika, the infallible detective, did not see them either!
2. Note how everyone was shocked when Natsuhi said she was a murderer (and then talked about 19 years ago): they all knew she was innocent of the "crime" they were accusing her of!
3. Why in the world would Eva talk with Erika about the duct tape strips unless Eva wanted her to be part of the plan? Erika likely didn't know about the plan, of course: she was an unwitting participant.
4. The whole plot perfectly fits Lambdadelta's motives (to fool Bernkastel). Lambda knew that Bern's piece would latch onto an attempt to play detective, for obvious reasons, and abused this brilliantly to trap her.
5. The knock problem? Well duh, Natsuhi and Erika weren't in the room: everyone made it up as part of the plan.

Game over, Lambdadelta.

>> No.4001127

this brilliant man deserves his own thread

>> No.4001123

But then who was phone?

>> No.4001161

>>4001123

Nanjo. He killed everyone.

>> No.4001167
File: 4 KB, 184x184, ff.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4001167

>NATSUHI DID NOT SEE THE "CORPSES" OF THE FOUR VICTIMS IN THE GUEST HOUSE. There WERE no victims in the guest house

>> No.4001183 [DELETED] 

Except people in the court room were confirmed dead with red.

>> No.4001191

>>4001123

Battler

>> No.4001200

>>4001183

Yes, they died later.

Remember the red that killed Erika's theory: the corpses of the victims in the guesthost WERE NOT MOVED after the victims were killed.

Therefore, by definition, the victims could not have been killed in the bedroom.

>> No.4001212 [DELETED] 
File: 117 KB, 352x480, 1255659678062.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4001212

>>/rs/There_is_only_ONE_Culprit

>> No.4001226

Assuming the culprit and their motives are the same in every game (it would make sense, as that seems like one of the most rudimentary rules that the game could have), there's an issue here. It certainly appears that no murders are faked in previous games, or at least that the culprit didn't suddenly come up with their plan to murder when they saw an opportunity after some people agreed to fake deaths. Unless the culprit planned it all along, and suggested they fake their deaths... and they planned to actually do the killing with that in mind... hm...

>> No.4001240

>>4001226
>Assuming the culprit and their motives are the same in every game

I'm pretty sure this assumption is impossible.

>> No.4001247

That's a rather interesting theory, Anon. One point I would add. Erika was the detective. She asked to see the bodies. She was refused this power, despite it being part of her role as the detective. It could be argued that this was because no crime had actually been committed thus far. I would need to double-check my reading of Ep. 5 to confirm this, but by my memory it's pretty solid.

>> No.4001248

>>4001161
>Nanjo
>young man's voice

wat

>> No.4001285

Then why did Battler destroy the Kinzo's Study closed room?

It would have gotten her much faster.

>> No.4001282

>>4001248
His son?

>> No.4001299

>>4001247
The only persons that we know exactly when they die are Hideyoshi and Krauss, no one else.

>> No.4001316

I'm guessing the people they drugged were the ones who didnt want to go along with it.

This still doesn't answer "who dunnit" though.

>> No.4001318

>>4001282
so Nanjo's son is on the island cut off by the typhoon? or can he somehow coordinate with Nanjo and the others?

considering that the external line can't get through?
>but if it can and Genji was lying, then all right.

still, Nanjo's son was a factor that was not PRESENTED.

>> No.4001320

>>4001285
Battler was likely supposed to be drugged too, but for some reason they couldn't.

>> No.4001324

>>4001282
>>4001318

Nanjo's son is ruled out for that reason: you can't introduce the murderer late into the game.

The murderer this time around, yet again, is one of the 17.

We know it isn't Natsuhi, since that was stated in red.

Who else do we know that it isn't?

>> No.4001328

>>4001285
Assuming that the witches are playing their best moves.
No such assumption can be made, also, battler was a piece for the witches at that point.

>> No.4001332

>>4001320
because he fell asleep on his own.he's fucking tired, remember?

>> No.4001345

>>4001328

Yes, but the whole plan relied on Battler finding the corpses and telling everyone and then not realizing they're not dead.

So Battler logically can't be in on it, because he destroyed that closed room.

>> No.4001361

>>4001345

Lambda controls the pieces in this game. That could be a red herring.

Remember, this game... "lacks love".

>> No.4001371

>>4001324
damn, it could have been anyone.

>> No.4001374

>>4001328
34 always plays the best moves and Battler was her peice at that point, IIRC. It could be she was doing it specifically to clear Battler of suspicion.

>> No.4001379

>>4001371

Nah, it's still limited. If we assume the following:

1) Battler is not in on the murderer's plan
2) Battler is in on the murder mystery plan

Then this means that the guesthouse victims were murdered after morning: and during most of the rest of the game, Erika had her eye on most of the pieces.

This should help us track down the possibilities.

>> No.4001380

How long does it take to read through the Tea Party and ???... I just finished the main story, but I'm getting kind of tired, and don't want to start it if it's going to take a long time.

>> No.4001382

>>4001380

HAHAHAHAHA

Everything turns around in the Tea Party and ???.

EVERYTHING.

Idiot.

>> No.4001389

>>4001380
Keep going, it's not that long.

>> No.4001390

>>4001380
1 hour or so, it's the best parts though.

>> No.4001396
File: 1.43 MB, 1200x1700, 1262073213193.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4001396

Fancy Rika or third rate Rika, which do you hate less?

>> No.4001398

>>4001380
Tea party is fairly short, ??? is pretty long but it's fucking awesome.

>> No.4001391

>>4001379
I don't think Battler would go along with it. Even if it is piece Battler he still can only act how Battler would act.

>> No.4001404

>>4001391

Really, Battler is pretty damn suspicious in this episode.

I think they could have coaxed him into going along with their 'fake' murders. Who knows what happened in that dining room.

>> No.4001415

>>4001391
Peice Battler could go along with the mystery plan. After all, he obediently follows along and puts on the head ring according to the Ep. 5 story, which has to follow how they would really act also. It could be his dad and relatives just pressured him into helping like they did there.

>> No.4001417

5493

>> No.4001426

>>4001396
Erika.
Erika's just fucked up, Bern's an evil bitch.

>> No.4001430

>>4001382

Idiot? I never said things weren't going to change, I was just wondering how long it would take. I don't want to read it when I'm too tired to enjoy it.

>> No.4001439

>>4001396
Fancy. She has a tail!

>> No.4001436
File: 144 KB, 639x480, dlanor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4001436

>>4001361
Dlanor states pieces typically do not act against their nature though, is Battler really capable of participating in such an insidious plot?

>> No.4001434

So if the whole plan was to corner Natsuhi and force her to fess up about Kinzo, why were Kraus and Jessica pretending too?

>> No.4001450

>>4001436

They might have given him another explanation for why they were creating the fake murders.

>>4001434

I don't think Krauss was participating... he was killed not long after the phone call, right? As for Jessica, she was probably threatened or blackmailed.

>> No.4001455

Rudolf told Battler the truth that might kill him.

Battler went batshit insane and decided to go along with the plan in a fit of rage due to the truth.
However he thought it was just a fake murder and not a real murder.

>> No.4001464

>>4001455

I think *ALMOST* everyone involved thought the murders were fake. The real mastermind was part of the plot, but had a separate set of evil intentions.

>> No.4001467

>>4001450
It could also be possible that the relatives used a perfectly harmless sleeping agent on the cousins and then dressed them up to look dead. There is no need for any of the cousins to actually know about the plot, just be unwittingly drugged and/or duped.

>> No.4001472

Everything I read is infinitely better while listening to resurrectedreplayer.

>> No.4001477

>>4001467

I find that doubtful. It says the wounds were basically impossible to mistake: that would be a very obnoxious move on R07's part.

>> No.4001482

>>4001077
This is a good synopsis of the thinking process thus far.

Problem is- it's wrong. Partly. Krauss was also a 'victim' of the first twilight. He even had his room prepared to fake his death the same as the others. And I have trouble placing him in a scheme to expose his wife for hiding Kinzo's death. Or murdering an adopted child and maid. Jessica either- her protectiveness of her parents is obvious.

Better to think that the 'murders' were a ploy the family made up during the late night conference to entertain their surprise guest. Natsuhi was ordered not to speak to anyone or accept any calls by the REAL killer, in order to isolate her from the plan and make her a 'suspect'. The rest of the family probably never realized that Natsuhi wasn't actually acting. She was probably intended to take the suspects role (by the killer's suggestion) and the killer falsely told everyone else she was in on the plan.

The killer had taken Krauss from his room and detained him someplace, and after threatening Natsuhi, killed Krauss and then hunted down the other 'victims' where they were hiding.

During the search for Kinzo, Natsuhi gets cornered pretty easily by Erika and the rest of the family. The killer's plan is not to indite Natsuhi for hiding Kinzo's death, so either the killer stifles Erika's arguments by quickly accepting Battler's explanation for how Kinzo escaped, or Battler himself is the killer and rescued Natsuhi in order to squeeze the real confession he wants out of her.

Natsuhi later goes to hide in the closet as planned, and some time later, Hideyoshi finds the room he was directed to, locks himself in, and does a brief bereaved father act before faking his death.

>> No.4001484

I just find it hard to believe someone is a good enough makeup artist to make it look like someones throat has been deeply slashed.

But then again, the bodies didn't move, so they didn't die.

>> No.4001487

>>4001482
Both Kyrie and Battler use some misdirection to prevent Erika from looking inside the closet. I have trouble finding this coincidental. Maybe the original plan was for Natsuhi to be hiding there in the first place. Or maybe it wasn't, and one of them is the killer preventing their plan from unraveling.

Either way, Natsuhi evades Erika's notice, and escapes from the room, only to be found by Erika and dragged back to the parlor, where she does her whole detective show. To everyone's surprise, Natsuhi breaks down and admits to the murders of the maid and the baby. But then Battler makes some rather creepy 'It's all useless' statements, and Natsuhi gasps. End.

Obvious suspects: Battler. Kyrie. Both of them hindered Erika at a few key turns that might have brought things into a new light. Battler in particular.

Less obvious suspects: Eva. She was the only one whose emotions seemed genuine this episode aside from Natsuhi. Anyone who agreed to Battler's explanation for how Kinzo escaped his room and prevented Erika from countering.

Even less obvious suspects: Hideyoshi. If he faked his death, he had plenty of time to go kill the victims. Also, he put on a show in that locked room despite there not being anyone to benefit from it. Unless he knew Natsuhi was in the closet.

Impossible suspects: One of the other victims. They were all killed by other people. So one of the apparent victims killing the others and then committing suicide is out of the question.

>> No.4001497

>>4001464

Yeah, I'm almost positive the murders were initially intended to be fake. The parents' reactions just seemed too implausible... just an hour later, they were making jokes and laughing again.

>> No.4001499

>>4001482

Wait, what? I thought Krauss just disappeared.

>> No.4001507

Oh man Krauss' assets and shit are fucking boring.

>> No.4001508

>>4001477
I don't think the red was used when Piece Battler was looking at the wounds. He could have been mistaken.

>> No.4001512

>>4001487

>Both Kyrie and Battler use some misdirection to prevent Erika from looking inside the closet. I have trouble finding this coincidental. Maybe the original plan was for Natsuhi to be hiding there in the first place. Or maybe it wasn't, and one of them is the killer preventing their plan from unraveling.

Oh wow. I didn't realize Kyrie was involved there...

Since Battler being the culprit would be too obvious, I'd say Kyrie is my prime suspect then.

>> No.4001517

>>4001507
whats wrong with moon tourism?

>> No.4001522

>>4001477

Erika never saw the initial corpses. Their wounds may have very well been unmistakeably fatal when Virgilia made that comment, but that's after the initial discovery. It can still be argued that Battler's discovery of the "corpses" was faked.

>> No.4001533

>>4001529

But there's no contradiction there. Krauss disappeared and was killed. Nobody ever saw his corpse to begin with, so there's no requirement that he be part of the fake murder plot!

>> No.4001530

What about Beatrice's red text about the corpses being really dead?!!

>> No.4001528

>>4001472
I was fairly disappointed how underused ressurectedreplayer was in the game. They played it once and it couldn't even loop for me.

>>4001450
I don't think they would really kill Krauss but maybe that happened when the real culprit butted in.

>> No.4001529

>>4001499
Red: -After Krauss's death、the corpse wasn't moved！

>> No.4001543

>>4001533
His bed was set up with the same blood stains as everyone elses.

>> No.4001544

>>4001484
>>4001477
>>4001467
Nanjo and Battler is obviously lying.
Rosa and someone probably move the other 3 of them who were drugged when Detective-san went to the main mansion.
Of course the true murderer killed/betrayed Rosa and killed all of them later after they moved from the room.

>> No.4001545
File: 651 KB, 640x959, 556.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4001545

Guys, this is old news, right?

>> No.4001549

>>4001530

Did she specify a particular time when they died?

>> No.4001553

>>4001545
Indeed, shit is ;_; though.

>> No.4001554

>>4001545
Very old.

>> No.4001595

>>4001549
No. They were all declared dead at 24:00 of the second day. For all we know, during that scene at the end of the game, Battler flipped out and not only killed the people who were a part of the 'murder mystery' plan, he could have killed everyone else as well and it just wasn't reported in the game, since it was suspended early. The scene in which Natsuhi is being cornered took place around 2PM or so, roughly speaking, since Natsuhi was confronted right after leaving the room Hideyoshi was killed in. And she hid in there starting at 1PM, right?

>> No.4001606

I haven't been on 4chan for nearly half a year to avoid EP5 spoilers. And now I have to leave again in less than 24 hours to avoid EP6 spoilers.

>> No.4001615

>>4001606
You are a strong willed person.

>> No.4001620

So who else thinks we need moar Maria x Battler fanart?

>> No.4001624

>>4001606
Just go search for those huge umineko filters on the archive.

I know I will this time instead of not browsing /jp/.

>> No.4001625 [DELETED] 

>>4001606

I've been on for the past month and I didn't see any EP5 spoilers except maybe for pictures of Erika, and rarely. Really, almost nobody here speaks moon.

>> No.4001633

>>4001606

I've been on for the past six months and I didn't see any EP5 spoilers except maybe for pictures of Erika, and rarely. Really, almost nobody here speaks moon.

>> No.4001660

>>4001633
I've been on here unfiltered for the entire time and avoided everything but pictures of Erika and a disjointed statement about "Gold Truth" which could have been anything.

>> No.4001667

>>4001660
Same. I think the spoiled people moved to /a/ or something.

>> No.4001679

>>It means no matter who looks upon George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, and Genji's bodies, anyone can affirm that they are dead with a single glance.
>>That's right, those are bodies that absolutely aren't pretending to be dead, and anyone can affirm that they are dead with a single glance.

>> No.4001743

>>4001679
FFFFFFFFFF why would you kill my little Maria?;_;

>> No.4001769

>>4001679
They can... but that doesn't mean they can't lie about it.

>>
Reply to thread [?]Don't expect anything heroic. Your post will not be uploaded to the original board.
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action