/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>OP
>>>/pol/ my Semitic glowing friend

>>OP
It's a case by case situation.

For most yes, you have to be more than an average wagie to consider it.

>>OP
It's sort of a meme, yes. I managed to do it by moving to a cheap cost of living country and investing in Bitcoin years ago. I'm still working part time though and playing with high yield stocks on the side. I make around $3500 per month post-tax. But it's pretty cheap to live in my country. For the FIRE guys in the US, it's not possible unless you're making a fuckload of money for years to build up a portfolio OR you invest in very high yeild funds that carry their own risks.

If you are a normie, retirement is impossible, even if you earn well above the median income.

Early retirement requires being an autistic single male with 0 interests outside of sitting inside on the computer all day long, never having a girlfriend, never having kids, not owning a car, never having any interest in going out, no interest in traveling, not paying for anything outside of the extreme basics.

The only true retirement for a normie is winning a significant lottery, say 25 million or more, but even then, the normie will figure out a way to spend it all and need to be back at work again.

>>58923881
agreed, OP needs to go back

>>58923898
>I'm still working part time though
what kind of work?

>dude just make a million dollars

>>OP
I think it's realistic for the average STEM graduate and the like to become financially independent by their mid 40s, 50s at best. You need to be disciplined to set your budget and stick with it, but 2000/mo thrown in the stock market should probably net you a good chunk of cash in 20 years.

If the global elite have denied you a beautiful wife and family, then you have no real excuse to not be able to become FIRE before retirement.

>>58923910
Teaching. I work part-time for a private elementary school tutoring English and math. I used to be a teacher in the US so I got in as a full timer at first but wanted to cut back when I hit my income goal.

>>OP
Sounds like garbage. Rsr, fun, kas a much more sound investments

>>OP
FIRE people are nothing like this THOUGH.

>>58923984
What are they like then?

>>OP
It's hopium for corporate basedcuck millenial office faggots who think eating the same reheated slop for 4 days out of tupperware will help them escape the rat race. Real men sell drugs or gamble on shitcoins

>>58923901
>NEETposting
Or you could, you know, start a business, invest what you earn and stop posting retarded shit on the Internet.

>>58924017
It's a product of extreme neuroticism (which doesn't show up suddenly in your mid 30s), a high income and a job they don't like.

it's just a bunch of zoomies collectively realizing that after you make a mil you don't have to work anymore

>>58924073
but b-but you need le 25 million dollarinos to own a honda civic and go for a summer vacation

>>58924073
>Just start a business, BRO!
Yeah, great financial advice. You only have a 1/3 chance of losing that local restaurant you started with your family. Great idea!

>>58923901
Dumbest post I’ve seen in a while.
At $3m you can retire and live like an upper middle class normie for the rest of your life. That’s because at 4% draw down you’ll be making $120k/year which is like 2-3x the median income. I honestly hope you’re trolling thinking you need $25m to own a car and go outside.

>>58924655
He's talking about $25 million being the amount normies think you need to retire

>>58924660
Normies think $500k is enough to retire. It’s the FIRE autists who think you need $25M. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

>>OP
Isn't it basically just goys trying to emulate the jewish method of making money?
Sounds like being a little fish in a big pond if you ask me. Not good. I'm sure many of these upstarts have been liquidated after stepping on the toes of a chosen one.

>>OP
this is me but I had the realisation at 29 instead of mid 30s.

>>58923901
>Early retirement requires being an autistic single male with 0 interests outside of sitting inside on the computer all day long, never having a girlfriend, never having kids, not owning a car, never having any interest in going out, no interest in traveling, not paying for anything outside of the extreme basics.
bros...
im really gonna make it, arent i....

>>58925464
I mean long nose tribe has basically made this a reality for most single men. I firmly believe that if you aren't retired early by your 50s and you are single and have no kids you're a failure.

>>OP
Yes, specifically a Reddit meme.

>>58926136
>poorfag cannot comprehend budgeting
You third worlders need to leave the internet.

>>58926141
literally the opposite, hence the OPs image.

>>58926143
>Memes are reality
As stated. Thirdies need to leave the interwebs.

>>OP
>6 year old car
Shouldn't it be a 20 year old car?

>>58923921
We're in similar positions bro. I'm working as an IELTS examiner in China now though. On a busy month can make around $9k pm after tax. Choose your hours wfh.

>>58926145
I'm not a thirdie, but as per what I wrote I already know that Americans consider everything not America to be the third world.

>>58923901
>Early retirement requires being an autistic single male with 0 interests outside of sitting inside on the computer all day long, never having a girlfriend, never having kids, not owning a car, never having any interest in going out, no interest in traveling, not paying for anything outside of the extreme basics.

You have it backwards champ.
>Early retirement requires X
wrong
>X begets early retirement
correct

stop implying I ever had a chance for normalcy you cunt, my millions are all I have, and if I travel it will be for whoremongering

and by the way, for the last several years I've been trying to """go out""" alone; sporting events, bars, concerts, etc.
It's about as fun as you would imagine

>>58926936
>for the last several years I've been trying to """go out""" alone; sporting events, bars, concerts, etc
>It's about as fun as you would imagine
Do you enjoy anything besides whoremongering?

>>58926944
lots of things, cars, woodworking, culinary stuff; all things that I do in my house alone, and financially aren't remotely showstoppers in accumulating wealth so long as you aren't a complete fucking retard
and I didn't even say going out wasn't fun, only that it isn't fun alone because you have no gf, no kids, and you're 32 and no more friends either, and no one wants to be your friend anyway, and you honestly don't want friends anymore either

the only actual inhibitor to FIRE is and always has been a roastie and her brood
the mechanism that keeps men part of the labor force, the tax base, and the driver of consumer confidence for the entirety of their lifespan

>>58927008
>only that it isn't fun alone
well, if you go alone and look decent, you can just meet girls while going out. They're obviously all over concerts, bars, sporting events etc.

>accumulating wealth
what's your plan for this? Just stack index funds?
How much would you keep stacking until you've hit your goal to retire from waging? To me that's the main motivator for FIRE, living off something conservative like 3% yearly withdrawals and just doing whatever you want with it

>>58927033
>you can just meet girls while going out
first, no, you cannot cold approach women in large public venues when they clearly see you aren't with any group of your own
second, for what purpose? I just said the only thing that prevents early retirement is precisely this

>what's your plan for this? Just stack index funds?
I've already done this. It only took ten years to accumulate a standard Boglehead three-fund portfolio, with no crypto/options/stock picking of any kind, of one million dollars
All that's left to do is pay off the roof over my head, for which I need another $100k

Once that is done, I will tell my boss to suck my crusty chode and start a Roth conversion ladder, transferring about $24,000 per year inflation adjusted from my 401k to a Roth IRA, while selling off another $24,000 from my taxable account, triggering about half of that in capital gains. With an income so low I will pay hardly any income tax and will qualify for complete coverage and subsidy from an Obamacare health plan. I will do this until Medicare age, and will in total need the portfolio to last only until the maximum delayed age for Social Security withdrawals, thus putting a hard cap on longevity risk. I will never need to work another day in my life.

But also yes, the meme image in OP accurately describes the type of modern detestable schmuck that posts to the FIRE reddits today, that diluted a true liberating concept into meaningless garbage.

>>58927126
>first, no, you cannot cold approach women in large public venues when they clearly see you aren't with any group of your own
What about small public venues and just befriending some locals to be a group with? I've done this at bars. I even go solo and just approach girls an hour before closing to bring one back home. Works most the time. There's even groups online where you can meet guys just to be in a group for nightlife.

>standard Boglehead three-fund portfolio
Pretty much doing this as well, except just VOO.
With that said, do you worry about inflation or needing extra money for an emergency?
Also, do you account for fun money like travel/whores? I'm thinking once I quit, to take up some odd jobs here and there for extra funds, maybe part time easy gigs like barista or security guard etc.
I still work remotely, so probably will keep that going until they have to lay me off for whatever reason. Still 3 years strong with them.

>>58927281
>small public venues
typically nearly empty, I've been trying to make conversation with the bartenders but they try very hard to look busy all the time or otherwise expect you to tip better for the privilege of just shooting the shit

>except just VOO
>do you worry about inflation
why I use more asset classes and not just VOO

>needing extra money for an emergency
depends on the emergency, $24k is only a ~2.4% withdrawal rate, in any situation where I need it I could grab another 1.6% for that year, unless it's a medical emergency where an HSA that's not part of the withdrawal funds would be used to cover up to the deductible

>>58927839
>typically nearly empty, I've been trying to make conversation with the bartenders but they try very hard to look busy all the time or otherwise expect you to tip better for the privilege of just shooting the shit
yeah, typically the results I've seen too.
So what do you do instead? Sex tourism?

>why I use more asset classes and not just VOO
So, what else would you hold? VTSAX? VTIAX?

> $24k is only a ~2.4% withdrawal rate
Ah, yeah, this is definitely conservative. Is there any reason you picked 2.4% in particular? Most people I've seen go from 3% to 4%, usually 3.5%. Maybe lower makes sense if you're particularly young.

>be 28
>215k net worth
>200k of that is in my retirement accs (IRAs, 401k, HSA)
>rest is in checking acc and crypto (2k in doge lel)
>pretty much all in VTSAX
Yeah I'm thinking I'm comfy and gonna make it, rather than most of the gambling neet degens on this site.

>>58927891
how long do you think it would take for you to retire? Like another decade?

I can technically probably retire early. My goal after coming back from my first trip to Thailand 6 years ago was to build up a portfolio of $1 million so I can retire early over there. I'm well past that number now but I'd rather continue working so I can retire comfortably in the United States.
In a sense, I've gotten the FI part of FIRE down pretty well. It's tricky to say when I can retire early.

>>58927896
Depends. If I coast, meaning I stop contributing to all my retirement accounts this moment, probably the normal age so ~67, though it'll be a basic middle class lifestyle. If I keep contributing at this rate, I can retire at 55, though I'm planning on completely quitting work endeavors before 60, as I don't want to be totally bored with life.
This is all the best case scenario so we're assuming the market over these next decades doesn't have an atomic meltdown, I don't get divorce raped, and I don't marry a financially retarded woman.

>>58927906
If we're going by Thailand standards, then I can retire at around 40 years old at this rate. Of course, I'm not trying to live in Thailand desu

>>58927924
>I'm not trying to live in Thailand desu
Me neither. It was my naivety and coomer brain in my late 20s that gave me the desire to move to Thailand. But I've had a lot more experiences since then that make me see living there as less ideal.

>>58927922
>55-67
lol why even bother? The whole point of FIRE is to retire by 30s. 40s at the latest. I'm guessing you just have a very chill job and a fairly balanced lifestyle to feel you'd keep going another 3 decades of waging

>>58927958
>I'm guessing you just have a very chill job and a fairly balanced lifestyle to feel you'd keep going another 3 decades of waging
That's fire, and yes that's exactly my situation. I'm really placing my emphasis on the FI part of FIRE just so I have a peace of mind.
>>58927931
Based wisdom

>>58923901
Yeah. Nice homes I want to live in start at 8 million in la.

>>58924655
But nice start at 3m in LA

>>58928058
Leave LA lmao

>>58928067
LA is the epitome of making it though.

>>OP
Meme is a joke that become serious business. Check BOINK and see what I mean anon.

>>OP
If you make good money and are responsible and you don't get married or have any kids and you make good investments, you can absolutely retire in your late thirties.
Probably not a great Plan A, but it is possible.

It's a meme to the extent that
1. most people will never have an income high enough to have it even be a possibility
2. the type of person driven enough to have a high income typically doesn't want to settle for living like a poorfag
most people "pursuing fire" are just depressed about the prospect of having to spend half of their waking life doing some job. they'd be a lot better off if they just changed jobs to something that they didn't despise. maybe also find some purpose outside of work so that their entire existence doesn't revolve around simply "not working".

>>58923901
> Early retirement requires being an autistic single male with 0 interests outside of sitting inside on the computer all day long, never having a girlfriend, never having kids, not owning a car, never having any interest in going out, no interest in traveling, not paying for anything outside of the extreme basics.

This is the cope normies tell themselves to make them feel better about being poor because their egos can’t take people that made it while still young

>>58928686
Le FIRE is not for people who made it young. Startup Chads are not posting on Reddit. The poster you are replying to is correct.

>>58923901
>Early retirement requires being an autistic single male with 0 interests outside of sitting inside on the computer all day long, never having a girlfriend, never having kids, not owning a car, never having any interest in going out, no interest in traveling, not paying for anything outside of the extreme basics.
I'm gonna make it bros

>>58926936
>It's about as fun as you would imagine
It's about mentality. Same as sitting at a table alone vs sitting at a table while your fren uses bathroom. Same physical reality but different mentality creates a different experience.

>>58928070
If your idea of making it is living in a pile of garbage surrounded by the worst people imaginable.

>>OP
Anti-FIRE people are unaware that people pick careers they hate just for the money, because it's a really dumb decision unless you really want to retire. Like, plenty of people think

"I'll be a paralegal or computer programmer until I have a giant nest egg saved up and then I'll do my dream job of being a storyboard artist for Nickelodeon"

The problem is that, now, you're 35 with no art experience and you're competing against people who have had 17 years of experience in the animation industry, and they had to get good in order to have a roof over their head and food, whereas you'll never have anything close to that motivation, and money will never take you to their level. Or Nickelodeon can stop making shows and you just wasted your 20s for nothing. But, if you actually want to retire and coast, it's alright.

i come from rich parents i dont know how you guys deal with this shit

>>58928877
Yeah, just retire, coast and work something fun on the side. No reason you can't just make your own animation or whatever solo projects. Maybe even go back to school to learn formally at a community college and build out group projects that maybe develop to something cool.
But on the other side of the coin, most of these cooler jobs are really difficult to get and then if you do get it, they pay you like shit and expect a lot out of you. You'd notice half, if not most, get these jobs based on nepotism, too.

>>58928927
>most of these cooler jobs are really difficult to get and then if you do get it, they pay you like shit and expect a lot out of you
Absolute truth. They have no need to treat you well as the line for people waiting to get in is long.

>>58928643
>jUsT gEt A jOb U LiKe
fuck off, all jobs are shit

>>58927877
what do you mean instead? there is no instead

>So, what else would you hold?
as I said a 3 fund portfolio, the ticker names don't matter but aside from total US stock there are international stocks and US bond markets

>Is there any reason you picked 2.4% in particular?
that happens to be the rate that it comes out to, because the income I can take is hemmed in by how much obamacare plans are subsidized, and they are subsidized the most between 138% and 200% of the Federal Poverty Level

>>58928846
yeah that's great, just doublethink myself into being satisfied with my social lot in life, the outcome will be exactly the same but at least I will have deluded myself

>>58929090
and that's why you'll always be miserable.

>>58928877
>most people wanna FIRE so they can do another job
Do you know what the R stands for, you absolute disgrace to IQ?

>>58929107
>what do you mean instead? there is no instead
so, just pure celibacy? No female contact at all?
It's honestly smart, but I personally enjoy pussy too much. I'd at least travel for sex or use happy ending spots

>Federal Poverty Level
what's your budget like? Do you do anything off the books just to have some extra cash to spend?

>deluded myself
it's honestly probably delusion most of the time. Hard blackpill most aren't self awareness enough to recognize.

>>58928837
Same, brother.
I wish I would have bought into btc earlier, however.
I'm not going to be free until ~2033.

>>OP
Yes. Exactly as your picture suggests.
Always funny when a regular wagie asks for advice on those reddit boards, only to realize he can basically be "FIRE" 40 years from now and retire maybe 3 years early lmao.

Everyone on 4chan is poor and jealous of people who have success. You wouldn't be here if you were successful.

>>58929130
yeah dude I'm going to be so miserable when in six months I will not have every daylight hour monday through friday owned by a corporation and being forced into working with and for people I never want to see again I'll be so sad I will cry tears, when whatever horrendous shit-shoveler job I have to do will no longer define who I am as a person like every other NPC on this continent, I will definitely be stuck in a life of quiet desperation oh woe is me


>>58929140
>so, just pure celibacy? No female contact at all?
we are going in circles, as my first post mentioned I'm not sexless because I'm single-mindedly pursing FIRE as normgroids would believe in order to cope, I've ended up in a position to FIRE because I am sexless because typically anyone earning six figures inevitably ends up bankrolling a woman

>what's your budget like?
Once the mortgage is gone it'd be something like:
$350 property tax + house insurance
$250 electric and gas bill
$300 groceries and toiletries
$160 gasoline, car insurance premium, maintenance
$65 trash, sewage, and water
$30 internet and cell
homegym in the basement
health insurance covered by ACA

to cover the bare essentials
which gives me $10k in any given year for trips, hobbies, other frivolities

>>58929204
category 5 cope, but of course you will move the goalposts as to what constitutes success, kind of like that retard up there earlier in the thread that thinks having a modest house in LA for several million dollars is how to win at life

>>58923901
It is extremely rare, but there are girls who are into this shit. Usually it is too late in their lives when they get a taste of the ratrace. There are couples who successfully do FIRE and move out to a farm and live off of mostly what they produce.
>>58925028
Yeah, you become a petite bourgeoisie. You literally leave the working class and become part of the elites. Being a small fish here is actually good, you attract less attention.
>>58926136
Yeah but you have to realize that they are trapped in there. Housing is expensive everywhere for them and they are cucked by property taxes. Even if they move to another country, their tax authorities still demand tax payments, they are the only developed country to do this. They must own a car unlike Europeans who could use public transit and electric bikes.
>>58928643
I disagree. 1. is a good thing. We don't want every other idiot retiring early. In order for me to retire, I need several other people serving me (that's the interest/yield I get from my investments). If every other normalfag tried out FIRE, it just wouldn't work. We need the majority to stay as dumb cattle working themselves to their grave. 2. is plain out wrong. We aren't talking about people earning 8 digits and above. We are talking about frugal ass middle class people. It could be a techbro that makes 200k or a couple of accountants making 150k together.
>>58928877
My only fear with fire is your skills might atrophy, and if for some extreme reason you are in need of money it will be hard to get back to work.
>>58929134
It became a figure of speech. There is lean FIRE and barrista FIRE. Look up the terms.

>>58930841
So, now that you're free, what's your typical day look like? Are you putting all this freedom to good use? Do you fear at all that you might get depressed or bored?
Personally, I'm following a similar path and debating whether to stop early like you have or just continue to work for myself as long as possible while increasing my net worth consistently and opening up the things I can do.