/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

[Anonymous No.]

what is this rigging style and why does every 3view in twitch have it? and why dont big corpos have smoother and wider movement for their models?

[Anonymous No.]

Yeah it is embarrasing when even a spaz like Filian can get a "free" model and create way smoother movement than a freaking billion dollar corpo

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Indie = completely invest in self, custom tailored
Corpo = Often produced independent of the talent, made to not stand out in a crowd (of other members of the corpo)

For a visualization, imagine plopping kson in the middle of a holo event with her rigging and how much she would stand out. Holos are made to blend together

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896281
>For a visualization, imagine plopping kson in the middle of a holo event with her rigging and how much she would stand out. Holos are made to blend together

Then it is time to update ALL Holomembers model instead of these shitty South Park style flat cardboard avatars

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896355
I don't disagree with you anon, but good luck convincing a corpo suit to make that kind of investment for potentially little return

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
>bouncy = le good
Corpo rigging is garbage but this style is just obnoxious to look at

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
>big corpos
why spend more when you don't have to?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896355
Neat idea but what if they made genshin impact again instead?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Vshojo and indie vtubers can throw as much money as they want at any artist/rigger they want, and often provide their own input on exactly what they want their model to be able to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeCnJ_tLL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YooutfGs0kI

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896447
First you'd need to convince YAGOO to start using Vtube Studio like literally everyone else outside of holo and kurosanji, which would basically mean he'd have to piss on the entire "technology" they "painstakingly developed" in-house, and put so much money into just to get attachables 3 years after vts got it lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Cover and AnyColor stick to their inferior in-house developed software so they can larp as tech companies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
too bad the best rigging in the world can't make up for their putrid personalities

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
The new ShyLily is so freaking trash, dunno why everyone lusting over that, her model looks like that fake plastic sheen that all AI generators puts on skin and objects! And what the fuck is that weeping face animation? Rendered at 240p and just superimposed on her face instead of an actual animation........

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
vshojo is just indie+

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896767
Dyarikku's rigging is great, but her artstyle leaves a lot to be desired. She was responsible for my least favorite nyanners model.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K0UqnPv6Hk

[Anonymous No.]

>>67897063
still impressive how dogshit this was

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896715
Not gonna happen when they're still calling themselves a tech company, and you know how prideful the Japanese are

[Anonymous No.]

>>67897063
>>67897086
wait this is real? at first glance I thought someone photoshopped her head on another model

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Cover is hit and miss as they use freelance, they sometimes hire some decent riggers but also Umiushit has been a thing too. Also because it's their own proprietary tech the riggers I would guess would have to re-learn some things in order to set up a Cover rig. I would guess Cover also asks for good quality but not the ultra-top-notch quality probably for time considerations and for taking into account a single talent might eventually have like 5+ outfits to use (which all need their own new rigging) so they probably also want consistency in the look/feel between all of them if possible.

For Anycolor they just have their own in-house people do it and clearly they don't prioritize top notch quality either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
I don't like the bounciness. Pisses me off

[Anonymous No.]

>>67897578
her arms literally wobble like noodles, it looks stupid/forced and unrealistic to the eye. kinda like how soap operas shot in 60 FPS somehow just look weird, we can just instinctively tell what doesn't look natural.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
It's not so much a style but more that a lot of indies like having bouncy models that accentuate their curves. There's probably some underlying psychological aspect to it that more bouncy = more engaging for viewers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Yoki sexo

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896281
I thought it's because the tech being used by the 2views and 3views are more open source so a lot of people can contribute in its development while big corpos sticks to their own apps to avoid any legal issues?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Why would they copy soulless 3views

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
https://twitter.com/KamishiroTaishi/status/1521093328363986944
indies can afford to wait half a year+ for their model
corpos have deadlines

and as others have said, the standard of quality has to be roughly equal, for the sake of fairness

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896756
>putrid personalities

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896355
Holo and Niji built in-house apps. Their models use software which is developed in-house which is significantly inferior to the free open-source software everyone else is using.
Although it's clear to see that Holo is developing their software a lot while Niji still looks like something from 2019

[Anonymous No.]

>>67899882
it's true

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
Jesus Christ man, this is not it.

[Anonymous No.]

I avoided vtubers for close to a year because every clip I watched was of Holo and I kept thinking "wow this looks awful, why would anybody want to watch a face that doesn't even move". It took talking to my vtuber friend who does rigging as a job to suggest some indies that actually looked good for me to get on board with it, I still don't watch corpo because of it but indies and vsj have lots to appreciate anyway.
So from my experience I do think that big corps are losing potential viewers by not having more expressive models, with the amount of money they have it seems ridiculous to not prioritize those improvements a little higher.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Those movements look too bouncy for my taste. It feels wrong for me. Might as well go 3D.

Holo, Niji and some jp indies I watch have the right amount of bounce.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67901369
These are the best rigs in the industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67901893
Corpos won't gain any viewers from having better rigs when their content will always be trash compared to indies.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Isn’t this Kevin’s rigging style? It’s popular apparently but I think it looks like spasm-y garbage

Example
https://twitter.com/kvxart/status/1731051276807635371

[Anonymous No.]

>>67902188
Eh, that's being a bit tribal about it. I agree that indies end up with better content outside of big event type things because they don't need to consider permissions or have any restrictions but corpo content isn't trash. I want the entire industry to improve because there's always trickle-down effects, if corpos become more popular to newer normie audiences then that leads to larger audiences for indies too.
>>67902314
Yeah Kevin fucking sucks, way too much bounce. Iron Vertex members and 2win are the best out there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091

[Anonymous No.]

>>67902387
It's not tribal at all. Big events are not good content.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67900341
wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67902512
Henya isn't putrid, come on now.
She's just dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Forced animation

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
corpo rigging look like shit compared to indies because they demand fast and budget rigging. they're more free to take their time on indies that's why their quality are much higher. but IMO not every "quality" indie rig is good. i keep seeing models that move like pudding because they keep cranking up the physics for some reason and sometimes it distracts too much from the main attention.

high-quality Live2D are good for showcasing, but kinda unecessary for practical purposes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67902196
Who?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67898541
i dunno if there's fairness when rhombus rigger and keffiy/jujube exist on the same company.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67902612
>She's just dumb.
she's a genius we can't comprehend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
>>67896205
Big company already has your attention so they can continue to serve you slop
Small corpos and indies are trying to get that attention in any way shape or form, including amazing models and rigging.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
Vshojo is pure slop in vtuber form. What a shallow of an attention whoring cunt you need to be to switch models every other week?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67902832
Ci-chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903042
good rigging never worked on me when it comes to selling themselves to new audiences. what matters most is that your entertaining.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903132
all of the money being spent on models is going into the pockets of independent artists. show me your mental gymnastics to spin that as a bad thing besides just calling the vtuber shallow

[Anonymous No.]

Why don't vtuber learn blender and cloth so they can have new outfits every freaking day, takes less than 1 hour to shit out a new t-shirt, hat, sunglasses or whatever

Lazy bastards

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
As much as I dislike how stiff many corpos are, a lot of indies massively overdo it with the bounciness, and I hate that even more. Even worse is when they have a shitty coomer dance toggle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
THIS BRAT !! I'M ANGRY !!

[Anonymous No.]

Advent's rigging and recent holooutfit rigging is good to me. Some recent small corpos are a step up to. Nijisanji has the worst imo they move like cardboard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67905168
Biboo has some incredible rigging IMO. The way that everything flows and the detail to textures and angles is genuinely great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
ugly bouncy rigging for twitch whores who dont understand vtubing or anime

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Cover wishes they could have rigging like this instead of the outdated 2018 slop they currently have.

[Anonymous No.]

Semi-related: Why is japan so good at mechanical engineering and electrical engineering, but at the same time always be so absolute dogshit at programming/dev?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67906875
The mechanical and electrical engineering tech you're thinking of developed while Japan was the premier western puppet in the Asia Pacific region during the Cold War and the Yanks were feeding them American patents under the table because it was vital for the west than Japan become the dominant economy in the region. Modern programming developed after the end of the war when the west no longer had any use for Japan so they were left to their devices and unsurprisingly fell behind.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Looks like a puppet, just go full 3D. I'll never understand the appeal of 2D

[Anonymous No.]

>male ‘manager’
>’manager’ is only managing her and says he isn’t accepting other clients
Before you even bother

[Anonymous No.]

Hilarious cope by holofanatics ITT
>muh twitch / muh vshojo whores
indies on youtube have better rigging too

[Anonymous No.]

>>67908018
hell, OP is an indie on youtube.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
gura in particular looks extremely dated compared to the current landscape of indies. it's bizarre seeing a 2view have a much better model than someone with 40k+ viewers, from the biggest corpo in the world

[Anonymous No.]

>>67908136
Gura has always been weird with models.
I wonder if testing is supposed to be done with the talent and Gura just ghosted everyone so either don't do any, or just have some tech guy spend 15 minutes looking at it and calling it a day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67899940
VTubeStudio isn't free and can actually be kind of expensive for companies like Hololive since they require a special company licence.
https://denchisoft.com/license/
That's still much cheaper than developing your own software of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67909274
>>67908136
no rhombus is just a shitty rigger and Gura's kinda reluctant to get a 2.0 because the jank has become a part of her "identity", at least according to her. in 4chan lingo, it's what they call SOVL.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67909681
I can kinda see the argument for the jank (see Lumi's god awful new model compared to the old one) but there's no excuse for stuff like holes you can see through.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67909681
i don't think gura has SOVL desu, it just looks bad

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
This would distract the shit out of me during a stream

[Anonymous No.]

Jap viewers actually prefer the more rigid models.

[Anonymous No.]

Because nobody bothered to google: Cover doesn't have any proprietary tech for vtubing

They use and pay for Live2D Cubism (they're even listed on the website) via Unity, while the facial tracking is provided by iPhone.

Basically, everything is just a wrapper for someone's else tech. There are no problems with rigger or artists needing to deal with more bullshit than usual, it's Cover decision to not get a better rig

[Anonymous No.]

>>67905168
I tried to get into Myth and Council but I was filtered by the atrocious rigs... Painful to watch. Advent is the first gen where the poor rigging isn't distracting - maybe Nerissa's could use a bit more work

[Anonymous No.]

>>67910552
Yeah Nerissa's rigging is definitely the worst of advent which is funny since it's pretty dynamic with her head angles

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
looks really fucking ugly, western style is so trash.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
The model's rigging is only half the issue. The actual tracking is just as important, and that burden is on the talent herself.
https://youtu.be/IaPvDXeQOko&t=34s

Like I see most small corpos have good smooth modern rigging run through Vtube Studio, but many of them still feel stilted at times almost as if some subconsciously feel HoloNiji staticness is the standard so why bother.

So much can be done simply by acting more expressively towards the face tracker, and calibrating tracking settings to better jibe with the model's rig.
Many indies distinguish themselves solely from the level of attention they put into making their rigging actually work.
https://youtube.com/shorts/sv7-PYBo0h8

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
Too bad iron mouse is a snooze fest

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
Looks like some spastic minus8 shit. Less is more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
https://youtu.be/jvRPchMMz74
I guess that true!!!

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
American tech >> Japanese tech. What else is new? Too bad Western women don’t make good vtubers like Japanese women.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896767
Worse, hee face is less cute. Still not worse than the whorification of onigiri’s model, the first one was homey and cute. Now I dont know if I have to ask for the price of the ‘service’.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903392
Some new models look like shit or dont resemble even the vtuber. Even worse, sometimes those two things happen at the same time and you are left wondering WHY.

[Anonymous No.]

It's just more detailed rigging. Corpos don't do it because they're lazy and have outdated tech

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896715
Japan still uses early 2000s Yahoo internet design. No way a Jap corpo would update their tech for such frivolous reasons as "aesthetics" or "functionality".

Also jannies are retarded seaniggers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67906523
That rigging isnt good, its just floaty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911445
Hold your horses: the peak of ui design and functionality was achieved some years ago, now websites just try to look like clean and without any rhyme or reason for usability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67908104
What’s her name?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911573
Inami Yoki, one of illusion_poison's daughters. I don't catch her streams much but I get her shorts recommended to me and know some of her model siblings.

[Anonymous No.]

Watching the bronies get scared of rigging better than a barely moving png never gets old

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
I tried watching this chick and she had her mod on call for the whole stream, completely ignoring everyone in chat, is this normal? What's the point of streaming for an audience then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903392
Artists are generally annoying faggots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911786
>indieshitter cherrypicking because their whores have no redeeming qualities besides their $10k models
LMFAO. Same model btw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ai6Uz7dGes&t=90s

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903308
Different things with different purposes.
A good looking model is the initial draw.
Entertainment factor is what keeps you coming back.

A chuuba with a good looking model but who fails at being consistently entertaining or is too niche like my current 2view oshi is condemned to have a revolving door of viewers who stay for two or three streams before jumping into whatever catches their attention next.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911445
>japan still uses good internet design instead of modern garbage made for retards
ftfy

[Anonymous No.]

>thread subject clearly about vtuber rigging, something hololive is objectively behind the curve at
>holodrones immediately resort to personal attacks
Almost like they know it's true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
>That smirk
Alright I’ll watch her. What’s her name

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
All this work just for a frame of pekora to mog both. Just goes to show you can't buy soul

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911230
This.
>Just checked her out because of her sexo model.
>Latest stream was an outlast playthrough with a male.
>Nope the fuck out.
If only the autistic japs update their tech better we could have the best of both worlds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
I want to plap Yoki's menhera ass

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912112
>but my noomber!
Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912214
Has nothing to do with numbers, no over animated vtuber nor hololive vtuber can compete with her on a design level. Her design is effortlessly kino

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912112
>mcdonalds of vtubers
>”mog” anyone because they sell more burgers
Yawn…

[Anonymous No.]

And before you start crying about Nijiniggers, yeah, theirs is worse. You're better than the absolute worst. Congratulations?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912106
>cherrypicks subaru's rig
>prove that it's her tracking and not the rig
>immediately deflects
Indieshitters are so disingenuous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912214
>>67912363
>immediately thoughts go to numbers
Never mentioned them. post a better design

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912477
And the rigging must be fantasti- oh dear god
>>67902388

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911989
..was this supposed to be good? That jarring blank flat expression

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912202
How menhera? This webm makes her look like she wants her wrists broken like an Asanagi girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912542
I never said her rigging was better, i said her design effortlessly mogs any vtuber regardless of the rig and no one will prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912202
>>67912603
Don't bother, her boyfriend is one of her mods and is always on call with her on stream

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912438
I don't think he was talking about subaru. Most of the posts in this thread were referring to gura and others.
Holo rigging is objectively behind that of what's standard for indies. That's not even debatable. That doesn't make the holos bad, it's just something management needs to fix, which I hope they will eventually. Saying that they're fine the way they are just makes them fall behind even further. They couldn't even pin assets until very recently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912292
If we talk purely about design, she’s not even the best in hololive. The fuck are you on about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67909681
soul requires effort handicapped by limited resources, hololive pumping out half-baked models that get embarrassed even by 2view /here/tubers is just corporate cost cutting which is the pinnacle of soulless

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912677
while this is true, its very clear that rigging doesn't matter in the long run

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912711
Name 1 better

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912843
Soul does not require anything, it simply is, although I do agree gura’s model nor rigging is soulful, its just poorly made

[Anonymous No.]

>>67913000
Maybe not as much as people like to make it out to be, but it's not insignificant. The animated movement of showcases like in OP aren't usually visible on stream, since they just showcase the range that the model CAN reach rather than what it will usually do. Expressiveness is valuable I find, but that also depends on the pilot. Indies do need good rigging because they need to catch new viewer's attention right away, while corpos can get away with cutting corners since they get their reach through their branding. It's still a matter of corpo management clearly having access to better tech, but deliberately choosing to stick with their outdated stuff, which just isn't necessary and will cause a backlog later on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67912843
>corporate cost cutting
You need to understand that Cover isn't interested in limiting themselves with Live2D models anymore, and while they are making some improvements with their new 3.0 models and other touch ups, they are prioritizing those resouces on their 3D models and the new studio that literally made them go for an IPO to buy, which in my opinion is the right call.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67913133
Here’s my oshi for one. You nousagi fags are deluded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911561
Some years after Japanese web development stalled and died, yes. There's a balance between simplicity and utility, and the Japs have neither.

>>67912039
Geocities was absolute garbage at the end and if you think it was peak anything beyond 90's kitsch you should neck yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67913490
That is actually a very strong point. Their 3D and AR is extremely good and they go absolutely ham for concerts and events to an extent which indies will most likely never be able to compete with. Still, concerts and even hologras are just a fraction of the content they regularly produce, so while it's visible that they dump most of their expenses on 3D, it is also visible that the L2Ds and the assets used for streaming which make up for the majority of their content is a little neglected. When you consider that the currently accepted definition of a vtuber is a streamer with an avatar, and the tech for the avatar used for streaming is an afterthought, it's a bit awkward. I won't mind if we return to the Four Heavenly Kings era style content, but that's not very likely for now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67913501
Korone is probably the second best next to pekora, but she still doesn’t compete. I am not a nousagi.

[Anonymous No.]

Gura looks like Parappa half the time

[Anonymous No.]

is this a thread created by that anon who wasted more than $1000 and is whining that he can't get popular? kek

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
This is why 3views stay 3views. Putting in all this work only to have a noddley mess when streaming. It gets old when the slightest head turn causes the model to do the jelly roll.

But none of that even matters since model fluidity and articulation is less important then having a coherent design and a good personality. The audience wants anime girls that are cute and funny, not roasties in glorified kigurumi masks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
I simply do not care. I have never sat down to watch a stream and thought "This is great, but it could be better if she was constantly bouncing". The model adds to the stream, but the model is not the stream.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903392
>person I will never know has a transaction with someone whose personal character I will never know
And this merits what, exactly?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67903672
Skill issue, unironically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67911230
The hell are you talking about? Japanese women make historically the worst vtubers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896091
This is not even that bouncy. If you want to complain about bounciness, go check any Kevin rig ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>67896675
I remember when an artist work from ironmouse felt so disappointed because she know her modal gonna get replace by another in a few week or less

[Anonymous No.]

>>67914892
So basically an indie, why can't they be happy and stop comparing to other.

[Anonymous No.]

seriously though, did you choose your oshi because her Live 2D rigging was very good?

[Anonymous No.]

>>67922595
By that logic you don't even need to see a vtuber at all. The voice can be enough for some people.
But that's not the topic of this thread.