/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

[Anonymous No.]

Why don't they give a fuck about Europe?

[Anonymous No.]

the entire western market is dead. the only important markets for vtubing these days are Japan and Indonesia

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Cuz Europe is a Pain in the ass to stream for unless you actually live there lol, Imagine streaming during 2am in the middle of the Night lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
explain

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Why doesn't Europe give a fuck about them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Why should they? What does Europe have to offer? Americans have money, Japanese idolize them, Indonesia turns them into celebrities, even China(preyab)(postAmerican Friendship Forever Pact of 2025) and Taiwan have an insane devotion to them.

But Euros care for bothing how would you even cater to them? It would be loke trying to cater to different African tribes... at least HoloES can speak to the massive spanish speaking peoples of the world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because yuros don't stay up until 4 am to akasupa some shitty ass myth stream that's 90% technical issues.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040862
Because Cover doesn't give a fuck about Europe

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Kiara failing to convince that she can lead that initiative.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
opportunity cost

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They hired Kiara though. I can see HoloES, but any other European language has no market. Kiara can obviously stream in German but she doesn't, she'd be a 3-digit if she only did German.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Kiara has the entire EU for herself and she's almost 3view

[Anonymous No.]

Serious question: Could Kiara be able to find the talents and lead a entire branch?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
>and indonesia
You can't say this with a straight face when every relevant ID vtuber is a glorified EN who sometimes switches to indonesian

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041234
That's a Kiara problem, not an EU problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
We're going to timeloop into the same old
>"Europeans don't donate"
>"Europeans don't watch"
>"Europeans don't buy merch"

But as with every thread that's like this I'll point out that european vtubing is alive and well, but on Twitch. Some of the most popular indies are europeans. They get a bunch of donations, they buy a lot of their merch and for non-corpos their numbers are very respectable (I'll repeat again, a chunk of the most popular indies are european and their audiences are european). Cover's single european talent is Kiara, so that's all Cover have to go off for data, despite her having a nice amount of european paypigs.

Europeans either watch JPs or Twitch indies. I can promise you, if another EN talent decides to randomly stream in a european friendly timeslot europeans are NOT suddenly going to drop their favorites to watch them. Because they haven't built up a european audience to begin with. This explains why you still see low viewerships and donations even if they stream earlier. For example, someone who streams at midnight or 3am my time isn't suddenly going to get me in their audience by changing their timeslot once every blue moon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Now that HoloEN is tarnished with males there is no reason to care about them. Just look around and pick someone else to watch. There are plenty of good European VTubers to choose from.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
By having English content you already covered the European audience you want. Having German, French and maybe Spanish content doesn't make much sense given that most educated and thus well off Europeans can understand English very well. So German, French or Spanish content isn't really worth the investment.
The only thing that would make sense would be to partner up with some distribution company in Ireland or along the Atlantic coast for better merch distribution and lower barrier of buying merch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They give a (little) fuck about Europe, just not HoloEN. Some JP girls stream into Euro hours, Vesper's most profitable streams (zatsudans) are during prime EU time, Bettel usually streams at the end of Euro hours, and his main oil baroness, who donates the most money, is from Europe (or at least donates in euros). ID girls pretty much all stream during Euro prime time, especially for Central and East Europe. HoloEN? Just Kiara and sometimes Mori. The rest of the girls aim for late East Coast streaming time which is usually 3-6AM in Europe. I think that HoloEN branch is missing out by not having at least 1 high view streamer like Fauna, Kronii or Gura who'd start their streams at ~5PM East Coast because everyone who likes to watch EN girls and don't like Kiara instantly goes for indies, NijiEN, mouse or don't watch at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041108
All they need to do to appeal to the EU market is getting ENs who stream at EU hours. That's it. There is no need to stream in other languages.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041411
What about streaming at EU prime time hours?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
French become chinese colony

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041234
>Almost 3view
>Averages over 4k live viewers every stream besides debuff emblem part 9001
Strange definition of the term you've got there anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041453
Fauna streams EU primetime for weebs (midnight).

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
EU law make them shipping to EU country the hardest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041234
Why would yuros choose to watch Kiara if there are other european chuubas out there? Let's try a little thought experiment. If Kiara was american and streamed at 3PM PST would she get high views? I don't think so. At best she'll get 1k-2k more american viewers, and even that will depend on overlaps.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041433
The only holoID who streams during EU prime time is Kaela because she streams at all hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041509
Most eufags go to sleep early, specially the ones with disposable income, who are working people in their mid 20s-early 30s. By midnight most EU vtubers have ended their streams and most dedicated viewers aren't going to watch another however many hours of stream after the first one they watched ends.
To compete in the eu market, you have to stream between 5pm and 10pm GMT+1

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Maybe you Euros should speak one language like the Americans, Japanese, and Indonesians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041593
based Kaela

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041593
What about Reine? She often has streams that overlap Kiara's (which run into EU primetime).

[Anonymous No.]

Europeans are too busy having sex with their gfs to watch "virtual youtubers"

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041538
Well that only seems to be a problem for Cover. I never have issues getting stuffed shipped from America and if it's from an asian country like China the shipping is usually dirt cheap and arrives in 2 weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041538
This. In England, my £18 Ina merch will arrive at almost triple the price after August, due to EU customs duty and UK customs duty separately. I don't even understand why Cover is avoiding Amazon, the merch arrives in 4 days and there is no extra price on it. Same when I order food from Japan and it arrives in 2 weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041823
>one language
>like the indonesians
anon...

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041823
>b-but most indonesian speak baha-
And most europeans who watch vtubers speak and understand english. European countries like The Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Germany etc literally have the highest ESL literary rates in the world. It's not an issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041108
>I can see HoloES
Anon you're dreaming. It's time to wake up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041326
NTA but check out Kobo

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041326
ID3 has had more growth in their first year than Council did in their first year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47042849
this. kobo runs rings around the entire EN branch aside from the nostreams shark

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
europoors think anime and japanese culture is cringe. they'd rather watch some homos kick a ball back and forth for 2 hours

[Anonymous No.]

All the euros went to small corpo. Idol has thier whole EN overlapping in euro hiurs sometimes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041453
This. Even the VTubers I watch from my own country all stream in English only. That's perfectly fine.
What matters more is that they stream at reasonable times and don't talk about weird American shit all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

What stops someone with dual citizenship in US and in some EU country from applying for auditions and specifying that they live in the west coast of US, then if/when they get accepted, moving back to Europe and streaming from there?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041108
>Kiara can obviously stream in German but she doesn't, she'd be a 3-digit if she only did German.
The German subchannel was and technically still is a thing. You could blame it on the algorithm, but just look at the comments on the streams it had.
Without her existing EOP viewers that would have been 2 view territory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47043448
That's how we got the only HoloEN who streams at EU times. Kiara was living in Japan when she got hired, then moved back home.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because they're in non hololive corps or Indies
https://www.youtube.com/@rinpenrose

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because we can understand Japanese and we hate anglo whores

We're more akin to taiwanese fans than to anglo fans

[Anonymous No.]

>>47043448
I could do that but I'm a male

[Anonymous No.]

>>47043772
kys heebshill

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041433
>I think that HoloEN branch is missing out by not having at least 1 high view streamer like Fauna, Kronii or Gura who'd start their streams at ~5PM East Coast
It's remarkable how the 5PM EST start slot is always barren and has been for 3 years.
It's Kiara superchat reading and then nothing until 6 or 7 when Fauna or Ina start. Ina is MIA again so it's just Fauna then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47042912
The audicity of the number one nerd shaming countries to say this

Reminder that english language manga scanlation very often have to resort to translating from french to english (like for example Zipang and Rokudenashi blues) because North America has an extreme disdain for japanese culture

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
You wish lmao. Keep dreaming

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Blame Kiara for being such a shitter that it convinced Cover that Europe is a dead market

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
lol, don't get uppity. The only reason ID works is that they're a third-world country with low cost of living. If an ID vtuber snags just a couple of paypigs from richer countries they pay for themselves several times over. The ID audience is too poor to be worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041376
>if another EN talent decides to randomly stream in a european friendly timeslot europeans are NOT suddenly going to drop their favorites to watch them
Fauna just did an endurance stream and got like 10k during EU primetime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041509
That's NEETs, not weebs. No working adult (read: someone who can pay for things) wants streams to start at midnight.
You're completely out of touch with reality and it's showing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47042065
Isn't that more an England problem than an EU problem? For EU countries it's just EU customs, and done and I don't think hololive merch contains anything that is particularly difficult to import.

[Anonymous No.]

Because EU hours are small corpo turf already after years of only having Kiara stream there.

[Anonymous No.]

What annoys me most is that I love bae and irys and their timezones would allow them to stream when i get off work perfectly - i often watch ID then... I guess they got something better to do in their evening
Used to stay up late to watch Ina shed stream 11pm EU time but now she doesnt stream at all so eh.
And cant stand the chicken

[Anonymous No.]

>>47045282
As a non-brit EU, I've never ordered Holo merch because I don't trust Geekjack. Heard too many bad stories and even if all goes well, stuff takes like 8+ months to arrive and shipping costs a shitton.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47045282
From my own example, the EU puts almost as much on it as the UK. It's just that while the UK describes it as a luxury tax on goods over £70, the EU puts a tax on everything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47045845
Never had an Issue with Geekjack, stuff always arrived when they said it would, you'll still end up waiting for it for months because its produced by order.
Got the Risu 1Mil limited in like 3 weeks.
But the shipping is atrociously expensive, with the import fee/tax put on top it certainly no cheap hobby.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47045845
I had the same experience with Booth and had to pay £100 to customs to get the goods. And it took almost 3 months to ship it from Indonesia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because they only watch Amerimutt streamers? Idk but each euro county has their own language and if they don't speak it it's just another EN which is nothing but globohomo.

[Anonymous No.]

I'd be much more into Hololive if they had any other talents streaming at EU hours
Thankfully the yellow harlot streams at social hours for me and she plays games I like

[Anonymous No.]

Motherfuckers need better shipping options for their merch.
Jesus christ its a clusterfuck.

[Anonymous No.]

Interesting I see a ton of superchats in EUR currency, abd GBP, I wonder the retarded burger and seaanons forget them.

[Anonymous No.]

Using the thread for a survey post: how much do you pay in entry fees when merch arrives in your country from Japan? Not talking about shipping fees

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
if they really want numbers just hire russian and ukranian and force them to collab

[Anonymous No.]

>>47046796
I pay customs, the retarded shipping prices and the merch itself. While I pay a lot of taxes. I fucking love it. Fuck you shipping companies

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041376
Basically this. I moved on to twitch indies because they actually streamed in my timezone and they streamed actual good games and over time i completely stopped following HoloEN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047068
Who the fuck watches holoEN

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Europe has actual taste and already watches superior corps and indies. Burgers are incurable Holo drones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047002
Nothing would happen

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Racism

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041376
This, EU timezone has a million good indies and smaller corpos to watch. Hell even Neuro is EU.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047122
>Holo drones
sounds kino

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041538
Linus talked about EU shipping before and he said it’s just not worth the cost and headache because of all the fees and regulations.
>>47040718
Covers own financial report showed that Europe is extremely insignificant in their overall revenue. Japan makes something like 60-70m, NA 30-40m and everything else is 3-4m.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047002
All smart russian escaped russia long and and don't give a shit about this crap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047276
Neuro is not EU, vedal seems to be aiming for NA audience

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047377
Yes because they completely ignore EU and got kicked out of China. While SEA is so poor they don't matter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047436
He streams in EU times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047538
Did he change his schedule? He certainly wasn't before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047494
They have used this disclaimer for over a year on the Hololive fanclub website, they have no intentions of getting in the EU market anytime soon

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047377
>no EU streamers
>surprised when there's no revenue coming from EU
?????????
are you and/or cover retarded?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047816
NA was still donating and buying merch when it was just JP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47043448
They got smarter about these tricks after Kiara

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041108
Kiara was hired on the premise of her staying in Japan, the fact that she's back in Europe is a coincidence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047377
>it’s just not worth the cost and headache because of all the fees and regulations.
Unironically, wasn't the whole point of the eurozone and single market supposed to simplify this?
I get the UK getting fucked but is it all that different shipping to France or Denmark or Italy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
I've seen holo's do early US morning which is EU prime time and they get shit views.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Holos don't live in EU so they don't want to stream at EU times. During lockdowns EU did little to show they were interested in vtubing. They don't buy much or SC either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047921
>the fact that she's back in Europe is a coincidence.
This is bullshit. Cover knew they couldn't get her a visa to stay and that she would have to go back to Austria eventually.
They may not have thought through what streaming schedule she would do but her going back to Austria was guaranteed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047957
>I get the UK getting fucked but is it all that different shipping to France or Denmark or Italy?
Unironically yes

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
You already have a great EU Holo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047580
His dev streams are EU middle of the day and his other streams are around 10-11 PM. Those times are great for EU.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47048261
I don't watch her much anymore, but Watame love

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047957
Shipping to EU was fine few years ago but it's shit now. We have specialized anime shops that have decent prices but those rarely do vtuber stuff. Buying directly from JP stores is garbage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047672
Fun fact: You can still but the membership, you just can't fill out your location

[Anonymous No.]

>>47048346
A shame. She remembers people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047921
>Kiara was hired on the premise of her staying in Japan
>Source: I'm making it up

[Anonymous No.]

>>47048176
Well then, using the greatest minds 4channel.org can offer, we've figured out why merch shipping is fucked for euros.
Someone should get a Nobel Peace Prize for this, and then run for EU commissioner or whatever to unfuck the situation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47048524
I usually watched her vods, so I didn't really post in her chat

[Anonymous No.]

>Why don't Euros watch streams in their sleep [NA] time or work time [JP/ID]?
>Why don't Euros give money?
You have to resolve the first problem in order to resolve the second.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47049091
This. The ball is in cover's court now. If they are not willing to make the first move nothing will ever change.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047880
right, 5 years ago when it was still a tiny niche. things have changed a lot in that time.

[Anonymous No.]

As far as I'm concerned, Tempus is targeting the EU market most of HoloEN have ignored so far. A lot of Vesper's game streams start at 7PM, around the same time people get back from work

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047957
I import a lot from amazon JP or other smaller hobby shops that are from japan and my usual fees are 15€ shipping +21% VAT tax.
If I import a 10.000 yen figure for example, I will pay extra 3200 yen with shipping + taxes, which honestly is fine. I don't get where the trouble is for Cover.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47049815
no, vesper target people waking up and watching him while eating breakfast in that timeslot

[Anonymous No.]

>>47049815
EU here, I'm a tempiss anti.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041931
Weird way to describe African rape gangs but sure

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050495
but enough about detroit

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041453
>All they need to do to appeal to the EU market is getting ENs who stream at EU hours.
Cover has already done that with a few Tempus members that regularly stream at prime time EU hours. Their superchats match the holoEN talents where only a small fraction are Euro currency.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050702
>Implying
They literally were telling them to not stream at these hours and Vesper had to bargain for it by promising to overlap the girls

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050072
>my usual fees are 15€ shipping +21% VAT tax.
>don't get where the trouble is for Cover.
Are you paying the VAT when getting the item from customs (like Kiara has to do sometimes) or is that part of the web sale? If it's the latter, then the EU should handle that for all the member states.
The seller should only be concerned with the cost to get the item from Japan to the port of entry, which you'll pay anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They do and gave them the one of the best. If they don't feel catered to that's their problem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050702
Why am I supposed to give a fuck about males? Why can't I have the nice stuff?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47051045
Blessed to have the chicken as our EU rep.
If only the shipping for her merch would be at a normal price...

[Anonymous No.]

>>47052127
Fuck shipping I fucking hate it

[Anonymous No.]

>>47052232
It's so retarded. I bought the kfp bottle, but felt so bad about shipping, that I bought a friend a Roboco stand so that it was at least a bit worth it.

[Anonymous No.]

It's a neverending cycle of
>EU fans don't care
>because EU fans don't have streams in their timezone to watch
>that's because EU fans don't care!
Something has to change and I am not moving out just to watch anime girls being bad at games or singing.
There's a fuckton of european indies with numbers not rarely better than nijis or holos so the lack of interest is a myth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
why do they should again?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47052418
>I am not moving out just to watch anime girls
why not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47052418
Just watch JP dumbass, VODs/late streams on the week and live on weekends

[Anonymous No.]

>>47052418
HoloEN are mediocre streamers anyways. EU timezone has a bunch of way better girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Nips are retarded
>>47040752
VTubing was invented in Europe, fag

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053120
I like my job, I already own real estate here, I can easily call myself higher class and the cost of living is far lower than NA or the big ones of Western Europe.
>>47053240
I do watch VODs and weekend streams. Sometimes, But I'm from the era when people made let's play series on YouTube, so I'd prefer it to be at least not as chaotic and unplanned. I don't have a problem with watching 5h+ materials, but I do have a problem when 2 hours of that is just dead air and doing basically nothing.
>>47053322
Sour grapes. The thread is specifically about Cover and Europe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053322
>>47053594
Cover should have nabbed Rin Penrose, if she had the hololive brand she'd be at a million subs already

[Anonymous No.]

>>47043957
Every time I find a manga that I would rate at 9-10/10 then it is always the french or italian translation that is leagues ahead of the english one

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053819
Cover went all out with starsEN. I doubt they even looking to expand holoEN further and trying to get more starsEN out insteas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053594
Just move to Ecuador, the timezone is same as EST, the country is RELATIVELY safe, with your money you'll be the highest class there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Indies and small corpos nabbed everything

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053819
It isn't just people line Rin Penrose either. Cover had the chance to hire a lot of high quality vtubers in the past 2 years and snubbed a lot of them. Mostly because they waited too long and missed their chance. Cover have nobody to blame but themselves for missing out on the EN vtubing goldrush following Myth's debut. If they acted decisively they could've easily had 3-4 gens of the most popular western vtubers under their umbrella by now, and that includes europeans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053915
and that's why holoEN is a failure, some of the top subbed members of EN have lower CCV than some of the lowest subbed jp members

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
>“Because Kiara has show there isn’t a EU market”
>Ignores Fauna getting 9-10k ccv for hours playing Hitman
It’s Kiara’s fault. One of your own let you down EUfags

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054707
holoEN is a failure because they don’t have enough talents streaming. CCVs don’t matter too much, it’s all about having enough content to keep people glued to the branch.

[Anonymous No.]

I want a Chinese branch again

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
why should they when europe doesn't give a fuck about europe

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054815
>One of your own let you down EUfags
If only Covered hired more so it wasn't simply one person for 3 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047957
The UK is unironically the easiest now, because we signed an open trade deal with Japan immediately after brexit. I've imported thousands of dollars worth of stuff from Japan in the last few years and paid zero tax/duty on any of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because we eurpopeans have head on our sholders and wont give a € cent for a free content, I would rather spend money on merch

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Why should anyone give a fuck about Europe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054983
They should go all in on Taiwan, if anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054815
The joke is that Cover didn't even want her there

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054815
I am going to getting banned if I say what I want about Kiara but if they are going to bet it all on 1 vtuber then Kiara was the worst choice

[Anonymous No.]

>>47055706
EU primetime is literally the most popular time of day worldwide to watch streams, you can see that on twitchtracker. It's genuinely baffling that hololive just doesn't stream then
France is also a larger market for Japanese media than the US

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041242
She would probably have a much easier time doing that than tardwrangling the rest of EN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040858
The EU is destroying itself. go to pol or somewhere for details. The living expenses explode including food by 100%+ the last year. by 2030 they won't allow non eu conform heating. houseowners and builders are in panic. My landlord already talked about selling the building to some firm that will most likely bulldoze it. 2035 no more gasoline based cars. Did i mention the ukraine war that went on the last year? All of Europe was supporting it and sending crazy amount of money they don't even have. Germany is in the first line for the suicide since the greens have the power currently. Europe is a lost cause. Why would you invest in a crumbling market.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050082
He still has EU watchers, which Mumei obviously noticed since she made this stream at his usual timeslot a week after his debut

[Anonymous No.]

>>47056386
which country do I move to then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because Cover has been effectively blind about the non-Asia market for the past 2.5 years and was somewhere between not informed and misinformed up until the Holofes recording trips this year. The first warning shot really should've been the Umisea animations - Gura was reduced to 3 clips ad nauseum, and they couldn't even be assed to write a single pun for Ina. Yeah yeah, "Ina is boring," but the difference between those animations and Camellia's lyrics (actual Mythfag) for the group song is enormous. And then a year later they borderline attempt to swap Gura and Ina out of the unit in favour of Chloe, only to seemingly backtrack completely when met with resistance (not to adding Chloe, but deleting Gura and Ina from their own group...yet they apparently ctrl+z'd Chloe too).

Then there's Omega and the total lack of staff not physically present in Japan. You've got a translator who's high on their own supply taking credit for shit they didn't do, calling shots they're completely unqualified for, and nobody questions anything for years because Myth went viral. Back on thread topic, you've even got Tempus management trying to chase Vespers streams OUT OF the EU timeslot at debut. I don't think anyone at central even begins to clue in to how severely out of touch the bullshit EN management was feeding them until the Tempus 2 debut announcement was met with more cope than hope on every platform.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
European labor laws are against black companies

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
This is the same company that thought it would be a good idea to keep HoloEN in the backburner and straight up ignore any girl sending their forms to the open auditions they started more than a year ago while pushing 8 homos in record time for a foreign branch. Pretty much everyone handling the EN side had a collective brain fart last year and made the most retarded decisions they could possible do and the branch is now suffering for them while JP and especially ID are just getting better.

[Anonymous No.]

yurofag here
i am fine with almost no euro holos and no i am not going to pay up because i inherently despise tipping culture
i am however willing to pay for solid, guaranteed things, like merch, guest appearances and concerts, and if i am not receiving any of these, you are not going to see my money either.
it's not that we don't have content to consume, although it's true that we're severely underrepresented, it's that covers acts like europe doesn't exist at fucking all. of course you won't get money from a region that just doesn't get things to enjoy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057078
>it's that covers acts like europe doesn't exist at fucking all
How so?
What is Cover not doing that makes it seem like EU doesn't exist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47056573
Where are you from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47056386
you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057179
I guess anon means geekjack? there is no european shop just an "international" one. Buy an acrylic stand for 10 bucks, shipping 20. are you not entertained? For me i can say i bought from my local Amazon store multiple songs from Holo and Niji and stopped caring about the plasic stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Look at Idol Corp for your answer. They tried to tap into the euro market and all the girls just stream in english because turns out the US pays.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057684
tapping into euro market isn't about languages, it's about streaming in european prime time

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057684
...Where people as retarded as you are born?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057733
Americans literally think it's all about language. This is something they can't seem to grasp.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057733
Why stream in euro prime time when they don’t believe in tipping? They’ll just release merch and they can buy those while streaming during times that can get the most money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47056035
Imagine if Africa huge ass continent with the same time as EU, was developed enough, that would be the biggest investment

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058189
Japanese people believe in tipping even less than Europeans do, what's your point?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057078
>and no i am not going to pay up because i inherently despise tipping culture
And this is why Europe will continue to not get big vtuber support.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058239
japs pay up, yuros dont

[Anonymous No.]

>>47056386
>go to pol for details
lmao retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058239
Japanese still send superchats like crazy despite that. What’s the euro’s excuse?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058066
yeah because the avarge european knows atleast 3 languages while they hardly can learn spanish

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057311
germany

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058189
>merch drops at ridiculous hours
>merch shipping fees effectively triple the cost
>numerous JP, ID and NA-exclusive deals
we're still ignored.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058395
rip

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057733
They all stream in US time as well even the euro ones so....

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058395
sorry

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058466
doesn't na have at least 3 major timezones? compared to up to 2 hours of difference across the entirety of civilized europe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058346
You can only superchat when streams are live. I'm not staying up until 3AM to give Kronii 5 dollars

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058409
Pretty much. Retards in this thread expect an EU fanbase will appear out of nowhere and support the members who never stream in good hours for them while using a bunch of no-life American neets and Chinese exchange students in Canada as an example that there was a strong NA audience before HoloEN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058620
Europe is at least 3 timezones but spain is just retarded (fill in ww2 history) unless you don't think much of greece and finland

[Anonymous No.]

>open store at 3am
"Wtf, why didn't you guys come to my store or buy anything?"

>spend months opening the store at 3am. But decide to try opening at 9pm for a change.
"Wtf, I spent months opening at 3am, but the one time I do it earlier you didn't come and you didn't buy anything!"

>there's another store down the street. it's part of the same chain and opens at 5pm, but it's really shit
"Wtf, there's that store down there and it's the same chain as ours, I know it sucks in comparison but why won't you go there?!"

>meanwhile in another town there's a bunch of stores that offer the same high quality goods. They're all independent, but at least they cater to your timezone and interests and alway open at consistent and convenient times for you
"Wtf man, why do you buy stuff from there and not us? I don't get it man. It makes no sense"

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047957
>Unironically, wasn't the whole point of the eurozone and single market supposed to simplify this?
Not sure why people would expect a bigger bureaucracy to make things simpler.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058908
>>47059065
Hahaha get fucked eurofags.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
This. Most vtubers who want to attract western spam tik tok shorts, is a VR chat Whore, or streams on twitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059205
Does the logic make too much sense for you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059308
Why should I care when I don’t have your problem?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059065
Your long-winded analogy is missing the part where the store opened at 9PM twice in the last week and 10K people showed up each time, but some guy is still standing outside yelling that there's obviously no demand

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059397
an endurance stream doesn't count as an eu prime time stream just because it touches it midstream.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059663
It started at 1900 CET, how does it "not count"
For that matter Kronii had 13K viewers on a guerrilla stream with 15 minutes notice at 1930

[Anonymous No.]

>>47044593
>>47054815
>>47059397
You're missing the point in that the said vtuber already has a strong fanbase who's regulars will be happy to to tune in earlier for this special endurance stream. Starting a stream 5 hours earlier than your regular timeslot is hardly a big difference is it? It's this person would regularly start their stream past midnight. Also this "10k" you're referring to didn't happen last time, as it averaged around 8k and peaked at 9.4k at 10pm.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They signed Kiara, that killed off all interest in Europeans from the Cover staff

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059397
>>47059915
I'm not that Anon. But from what I can see, the issue seems to be the quality of HoloEN vtubers showing at a particular timeslot. Given the numbers you guys are posting here, maybe it's fair to say europeans would show up more if it wasn't only Kiara for the majority of their primetime?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057387
He's got some idea, a lot of that is correct. The root of the issue on most of it is the nonsensical green energy transition, though. Fundamentally that's whats causing most theissues (which is nothing but symbolic politics with no effect on the issues they propose)

[Anonymous No.]

>>47060360
Kiara starts in SEA primetime. If you're looking for a stream to watch in euro hours and she's live, it's the second half of part 8000 of a JRPG or she's reading superchats

[Anonymous No.]

>>47055422
What the fuck do you mean zero tax, not even the VAT?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
they hate Francis Xavier ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47048524
>She remembers people.
You went too far now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47060710
If the declared value of the package is £135 or less (currently ¥22300) there's no longer any VAT or duty payable at the border.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47061198
Meanwhile norway removed its 35usd limit so even a 5 usd item gets taxed now (with a minimum 16 processing fee + other fees).

[Anonymous No.]

>>47060526
>SEA primetime
sure, if primetime is 5am in the morning retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>47062440
Kiara's normal start time is 10PM JST and she said she picked that specifically so viewers in SEA could still watch

[Anonymous No.]

>>47053567
You should consider thinking before replying

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because EU is willing to cope and watch US. US would not cope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because they're having trouble finding a Muslim that has security clearance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
I'm a Yuro and I only care about the JP members.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because of the LA concert.
They've been pandering to PST for almost an entire year

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
>Western market is dead
>Tickets for western concert sell out instantly
???

[Anonymous No.]

Are there even any African or Middle Eastern (non-Mossad) vtuber streamers that can also speak English? Or do they all stay in their country bubbles?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47064281
>Middle Eastern
>no cute Megumin-themed chuuba who ends her debut stream with EXPLOSION and then never streams again
Why even live?

[Anonymous No.]

Cover simply didn't create HoloEU when it had the chance and now it's a lost cause for them. To be precise, debuting a specifically EU oriented branch would destroy Cover. The EU market is full of big indies and small corpos, and Cover wouldn't be able to compete. The failure of the branch would showcase that the emperor is indeed naked. The company would lose a lot of prestige by doing so.

The EU market is well taken care of and catered to, it's just that the market was filled with people and corpos other than Cover or Niji. I just can't see either of them succeeding here. It would be a meaningless uphill battle where they'd lose more than just the financial investment. This is why Cover is now aiming for South America. that is the actual and only still untapped market.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Europe is a myth.
There has never been any conclusive proof of its existence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47065148
Literally nobody thinks they should make an "EU branch" though. Most members of their target demographic in Europe speak English. They just need ENs who stream at the right time
You can even see that when holos do occasionally do driveby streams in EU hours, they still get more viewers than any of the small corpos, despite doing less than nothing to appeal to that market for years

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058395
Unironically, Russia. By 2050 siberia will become lush fields.
Hololive should invest into HoloRU

[Anonymous No.]

>>47065908
>By 2050 siberia will become lush fields
Where will you send all of the prisoners then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47065968
To the nuclear wasteland of the burgerstan, like the britbongs did with australia

[Anonymous No.]

>>47065968
they'll have all been used up in ukraine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They hire people who live in EU aren't you satisfied enough? Plus wouldn't EU cut into JP's time slots anyway? The only market I see is latin america. I hope they don't hire any fucking Spaniards or Portuguese. They're racists af.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Regulations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47066329
You mean person? Only Kiara is from EU and she was hired when she was living in Japan. Since then if we count both HoloEN and StarsEN they hired a bunch of Americans, Asian-Canadians, Asian-Aussies and a dude from Central America.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047672
>not GDPR compliant
Have they tried not being niggers with personal data?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47047957
>Unironically, wasn't the whole point of the eurozone and single market supposed to simplify this?
It is simplified. Between EU countries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050764
NTA but it depends on the service you use. Some let you pay the VAT in advance, for others you have to pay it at the post office.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47065761
>Literally nobody thinks they should make an "EU branch" though
>They just need ENs who stream at the right time
Why would an EN who can stream at US hours stream at EU hours? That's why a branch specifically made of Europeans is necessary. So that they're physically unable to stream at NA primetime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47067230
They can literally just hire one or two europeans into an EN gen that also has burgers in it
They keep hiring Australians for some reason so clearly a gen with split timezones isn't a problem

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Unfortunately, yurop is the next Africa.
They'll turn into a warzone again in this decade, both two superpowers have already placed their vassals in the region. Yagoo is simply playing the long game and wouldn't want to get involved with future conflict.
This is why he didn't even bother trying out the SA market, they entered the market just slightly too late to experiment with these regions, unlike niji who had more experience but done fuckall.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47056386
>go to pol for details
Holy fuck if this website was still good you'd get banned for this

[Anonymous No.]

>>47066329
>people
>plural
>one (1) EU
>who wasn't even supposed to be truly EU to begin with

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They know Eurochads drown in real anime pussy and dont need vtuber substitutes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
EU doesn't even give a fuck about EU

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040752
Retarded take as usual, go back to zoo

[Anonymous No.]

>>47068285
>both two superpowers
china doest have shit in yurop

[Anonymous No.]

>>47068285(me)
>>47069644
Oh wait yes they do, it ruxxia

[Anonymous No.]

>>47068285
>>47069644(me)
oh wait yes they do
its ruxxia

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059915
Both Kronii's and Fauna's streams happened on weekend (Kronii's) and a holiday (Fauna's), so you can't just assume that all those viewers were Europeans. NA / US could watch them, too.
Look at the SC for those two streams
>https://www.hololyzer.net/youtube/realtime/superchat/msjhXGfGuDk.html
>https://www.hololyzer.net/youtube/archive/superchat/r8oTzos2r3U.html
Both were highly dominated by US$, by far. For that to happen, it'd mean either EUfags are a bunch of cheapasses, or majority of the viewers were actually murricans even though the streams started in EU time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47057684
Nigga they speak in english because they are the english generation of Idol. They were never expected to stram in any other language. The only ones who switched from another language to english were the two remaining hebrew girls

[Anonymous No.]

>>47061198
Bullshit, I bought stuff from Japan a year and a half ago, and because it was worth over £70, it was classed as a luxury item and I ended up paying double for it. It was a Haachama dakimakura.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47059043
>but spain is just retarded
Our current timezone fits our culture and way of life perfectly and even if we switched, we would switch to the portuguese and british timezone, not to GMT-1, so it would still be just two

[Anonymous No.]

>>47070815
So you don't count greece or finland to europe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041497
It's not a debuff game when she only plays debuff games. She's just pain stupid, It's more likely closer to a career suicide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058395
Central Italy.
Go to enjoy a more relaxed way of living.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47072246
The anon that started the timezone talk was probably refering to western europe only. To be fair, I did think that finland was on GMT+1

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
because europoor

[Anonymous No.]

>>47070788
I literally just got a package yesterday from GSC that says "Toys/Figures - ¥19000" right there on the form, and wasn't charged anything.

[Anonymous No.]

europe is cringe

[Anonymous No.]

Euros are poor bro. They got btfo'd by Putin and Biden

[Anonymous No.]

I think cover has somewhat learned a lesson after Kiara. AUS streamers have decent collabs with jps/IN but having a random in Europe makes them even less centric.
I'd say they should make a single EU gen but they are dragging their feet in a new gen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
You got Vesper tho?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47082309
JP primetime is in the early afternoon in Europe, and euro primetime is in the late morning / early afternoon in the US. It's literally only a problem if they want to schedule stuff at PST primetime

[Anonymous No.]

>>47083078
I know this is probably bait, but it is really funny that by far the homos' biggest early success was him streaming at EU primetime after management told him not to

[Anonymous No.]

>>47083218
And he threw all that away by going menhera against his manager followed by collabing with girls...

[Anonymous No.]

>>47043786
Ho as a yuro that make actual sence. Yep i should really just watch JP in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47083103
Yeah basically for SEA then euro is a good spot.
And we know theres quite a lot of demand for english language streamers in SEA and a lot of the people in that region get excited about the various euro accents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47085168
No, they aren't, unless you are a NEET.
Most of Europe is 4-6 hours behind most SEA countries. That means EU Prime Time (~8PM) is too late for SEA (0:00AM - 2:00AM). On the other hand, EU morning / noon is too early (around afternoon for SEA). Your average SEA viewers aren't going to be able to catch that (if we want to push it, maybe an hour or two for EU morning streams during SEA lunchbreaks, but that'd mean sacrificing lunchbreaks)

[Anonymous No.]

>>47085712
I mean for professional streamers.
Because SEA prime time is well within what would be comfy for an EU based streamer to stream. They could basically do a long stream and capture the whole potential market from SEA to Europe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47083103
JUST DO CHILL EARLY MORNING STREAMS. 6AM JSP is around 22 GMT+1 depending on the season because asia doesn't have Daylight saving time. streaming from 6am to 9am might not be primetime but it still gets a lot of eurofags to view. Koyori is the only one who streams at 6 am for Hololive. Mio is 7:30 at best and Ohasuba is around noon (weekend but still, come on)

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because nobody else does either

[Anonymous No.]

EU regulations are extremely hostile to businesses and make it not worth the effort.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47086770
By hostile to businesses the American means that you're not allowed to demand sexual favours from your employees and have to pay them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Management sucks. This is the same with StarsEN they didn't bother to release it until someone have already taken the market. Now the homos need to rely on EN, but all it did was bring the other branch down. I honestly think they just got lucky with covid. Even now instead of focusing only on the vtubing market they're making a game and apps that no one gives a shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47087139
Problem is Covers primary focus is quite correctly on the Japanese market.
They make most of their money there and their business model works there.
It doesn't work outside of Japan. At least not well.
Problem overall though is that they refuse to let the EN branch try to do its own thing or develop independently of the JP management and business model.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47087285
Cover gives the EN/ID branch some autonomy, the issue is that EN management is scared as fuck of causing any sort of issues so they basically forbid anything that could be remotely controversial. This had some sort of backlash since A-chan straight up took over the EN main channel from EN management and Yagoo is sitting in on their meetings now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47087504
>and Yagoo is sitting in on their meetings now
oh yea i forgot about that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Tell you what i will make a EU based chuba agency that streams only in euro time. If you can build a car that beats the Bugatti Chiron Supersport and then give it to me for free and deliver it to my house.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47087504
>>47087754
Hard to say how much that will amount to though.
For all we know? They got pissed off that they planned something on their own.
"oh hey we got loads of people now so why not a big EN event? We could rent a con centre in the states and have our own concert maybe?"
*JP management notice and this is their response*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Djn-G6uSk

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Correction: they don't give a fuck about ANYTHING or ANYONE, they just sit back and collect money from their girls. Literally no different than a pimp, they spend less than bare minimum on making things better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
For japs: world outside of japan and east asia = America.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
my rope?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47089058
you go girl!

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They see EU&USA as asically the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Depictions of humans, even stylised, are haram.
Europe is much more Muslim than Indonesia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054707
>and that's why holoEN is a failure, some of the top subbed members of EN have lower CCV than some of the lowest subbed jp members
Can't compare different markets. Last year Toyota sold 6000 Camries in the US, while under 1000 in JP. Jp or Camries are a failure? HoloEN still dominates the West. And the West does have a higher ceiling, so with EN3 auditions over, it's just a matter of time. It will be most hyped.
As for Europe, all those claiming they are watching indies are just proving it's a small audience. But Hololive has shown time again, they are successful where others have failed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47054983
HoloTW will happen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47050234
That's cause all you euros are gay faggot troons with shit taste.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
They don't even give a fuck about the EN market they already have and you wonder why they wouldn't specifically care about the EU? lmao
They gave up on EN, the numbers aren't good enough. We are like a game that stopped getting real updates and just gets basic support at this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Europe? more like euroPOOR am i rite

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because Nips are racist as fuck and they hate white people

[Anonymous No.]

All we need is Shondo

[Anonymous No.]

>>47058395
SEA and go enjoy some uoghhh

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Because Cover wants paying customers, not yuropoors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47089404
This

[Anonymous No.]

>>47095516
>Increased presence at fes
>JP management now making content for the EN channel
>3D debuts
>In-person concert in LA
Is this what giving up looks like? Weird

[Anonymous No.]

>>47103084
It will be the first and the last concert in LA

[Anonymous No.]

>>47103084
Cover can do all of that but they're still not dealing with the 20-month old elephant in the room. They had all of these things, but what about next year? CouncilRyS gets their 3D showcases, they all participate in the 5th fes., maybe they start planning for another concert, but are they going to be forever a 10 man group where 50% is out of commission at all times? And what if any number of them graduates? Are they now a 10-x group until the end of times? What about the straight up garbage waiting time for perms? Rrat literally told in her recent Typing of the Dead stream that it took almost 2 years for her to finally play the game, and I severely doubt it was just publisher autism. Maybe the JP management taking over the EN channel means they're finally cleaning up the house, but until there's any news about any of this the future of the branch still looks rather bleak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47046864
19%

[Anonymous No.]

>>47046864
40 to 50 euros depending on the weight of the package

[Anonymous No.]

>>47098608
this anon gets it

[Anonymous No.]

>>47105282 (me)
Germoney btw

[Anonymous No.]

>>47103084
>In-person concert in LA
>In-person
Oh anon...

[Anonymous No.]

>>47088187
It's speculated that Yagoo was already scouting places out when he went to Expo last year so I highly doubt it.
Mori/Kiara have flat out said that the performance of this concert will dictate how much money Cover is willing to pour into NA based events.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47103735
>but are they going to be forever a 10 man group where 50% is out of commission at all times
50% out of commission is hyperbole, but why can't the talents or Cover do something about the members that never stream or don't stream regularly.
We really could have round the clock streams and each member would only have to put in like 20 hours a week if they split it evenly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47044485
crying nijinig

[Anonymous No.]

>>47105876
Cover doesn't give a fuck if the girls don't stream as long as they meet their deadlines on behind the scenes work.
Do you really think they care about Gura streaming when her mere existence generates hundreds of thousands for them?

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Meet a European; you won't give a fuck if the whole continent sinks into the sea after that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041242
Nothing against Kiara, I don't strongly dislike her or anything, but there's no way would I trust Kiara to select talent. She's got too many tact issues.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47041376
>but on Twitch
Ergo, not relevant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47105802
I mean the audience, retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>47040718
Somehow, before Myth existed, overseas viewers showed up in JP streams with a big enough presence to get noticed and acknowledged by the talents and the company. Cover's EN strategy targets NA and Aus/JP hours primarily. As if by magic, something must have informed this decision. Perhaps it's that despite all of the bitching and whining euros do, you never showed up to be seen as a worthwhile demographic, even when other English speakers were going out of their way to watch content outside of their time zones before there was content catered specifically to them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47106788
So we need to become brutish and uncultured like americans, stomping into their streams with our shoes on inside their house and scream YEEHAWW KONNI CHI WAAAA

[Anonymous No.]

>>47098608
I can't understand what the fuck is she saying at all

[Anonymous No.]

>>47106896
Fuckface, there's demographic ibfo for your streams and video views. You faggots just had to show interest in non-English at the start, and you didn't. Add to that the fact that they probably still keep an eye on these metrics and you're still just a drop in the bucket compared to the others.
We could also assume that they don't want to deal with working with simeone from the EU timezone, because Kiara has noted that she has to be up at like 4am to do shit sometimes for corporate meetings and other Cover back end related work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47105976
With her not streaming, it's good for them for now. Longer term... what keeps her relevant and generating new fans? That's their new challenge, and it may very well be not streaming and some other thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47106788
EU is used to the abuse and just watches anyway with occasional whining.

[Anonymous No.]

>>47045631
I love Bin Benrose