/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

[Anonymous No.]

when did things start to go wrong for them?

[Anonymous No.]

hiring mori

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
/thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
their most popular member doesn't even like streaming, shit was doomed from the start

[Anonymous No.]

Council deb- no wait, he >>37107021 is right

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
harboring SJWs

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
FPBP

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
>>37107205
These

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
fpbp

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Myth unity - the offcollab
Fanbase unity and hope for the future gens - Tempus announcement and debut

[Anonymous No.]

They are doing way better than how HoloJP was doing before gamers.
Need just need EN3 to include a some hags or tard wranglers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107364
What a pathetic cope

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107364
EN hags are not as good as you think, stick to JP hags

[Anonymous No.]

imagine falling for the niji deflection thread

[Anonymous No.]

Super strict management.
But that was more an issue that JP created, not so much ENs fault.
Halfway~ through JP gen4 is when things collapsed for the company, not just EN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Unironically everything went to shit when Ina left

[Anonymous No.]

chad bobon cucked dragoons

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
Fpbp!

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
When they thought they understand the EN market

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
It's when it became clear Cover treats EN as easy crash grab without offering anything in return except for anonymity "protection". Somehow Nijisanji and Hololive managed to become mainstream in Japan and they're basically getting sponsorships and collaborations left and right while ENs are being left in the dust because Cover couldn't be bothered to open an office in the U.S. for business operations. Besides having a dedicated team in the U.S. working to expand Hololive brand's reach, talents would have been able to travel to the office for 3D studio recordings and do all sorts of skits. They WERE branded as idols but were not given proper facilities and training to act as ones, and now people complain they're just streamers with avatars. Cover doesn't understand Western streaming dynamics and how "fluid" it is. If they did, they would have released gen2 6-8 months after Myth while they still had the numbers and by now we'd have 15-20 ENs with proper on-site staff support. They had no problems shitting out ~35 JP talents in 3 years, but more than 10(11) ENs in 2 years? Sorry gaijin-kun, disu izu beri muzukashi.
Heck, even if we disregard everything I've said about expanding in the West and assume Cover just wants to focus on Japan, they still fucked over the girls. Most, if not all, were willing to travel to Japan to record their 3D related events, but Cover couldn't be bothered to provide them with visas. Gura even mentioned she'd move to Japan if given the chance. Somehow other gaijin YouTubers, who are associated with inferior companies, have no problems getting business visas, but you want me to believe Cover couldn't procure them? Everything related to EN can be summed in a simple sentence "oh, you still exist?". I watch JPs because it's impossible to watch ENs live from Europe due to timezone differences, but I still feel sorry for the girls and EN fans for being treated as afterthought.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
>when did things start to go wrong for them?
September 12, 2020

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
1)Thinking that there would not be any competition in the market.
2)Putting a lot of brakes in the girl´s projects.
3)The fucking game Perms are a cancer to go throught. I know why is like this but damn.

Overall, Hololive EN had the benefit of being the 1st corpo in the EN sphere. That´s it.

Success breeds jealously, but it can also breed complacency.

[Anonymous No.]

>what went wrong
Most of them are shitty streamers that does a boring game stream and calls it a day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Unironically Tempus. Just look at what happened to the fanbases and the streams since they debuted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108828
>It's when it became clear Cover treats EN as easy crash grab without offering anything in return except for anonymity "protection"
To be fair, many EN girls treat Hololive as just an easy cash grab as well, without offering anything in return (uninspired streams, shit attitude, no delivery, etc.).
And as for what Cover is actually "offering", it's access to their group and the brand buff, built on the efforts of previous JP generations who made Hololive popular globally in the first place. It's what transforms a pre-Holo "insignificant EN whore streamer #8957" into "Hololive talent that gets showered with a guaranteed six-figure subcount even before debuting, without having to do anything herself", and without the brand buff Hololive provides most of the girls (all but the few actually naturally gifted ones) would soon regress back into insignificant EN whore streamer #3428" tier anyway again.

>Somehow Nijisanji and Hololive managed to become mainstream in Japan
Yes, it is a mystery why "anime girl streamers" managed to become mainstream in Japan, the country that invented anime girls in the first place. Anime in general is not yet fully mainstream in the west (and one can argue, it's probably better if it never becomes mainstream), so yeah it's no surprise that the big vtuber companies can score big-name business collabs in Japan, while in the west it's still mostly treated as some weird niche weeb thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108828
This so much. Cover neglect has massive consequences but it was more covid fault not theirs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
The four key moments were:

1. Holo-caust
2.Taipei yab
3. Council being a flop
4. Rushia yab

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
this but kiara

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
when you decided Things (You) Didn't Like were the turning point

[Anonymous No.]

>>37109618
only one of those has anything to do with EN

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108828
The sad part is even though IRyS is fluent in Japanese and living in Japan they still fucked up woith her. Cover is an amazing example of Japanese ineptitude.
>Get huge covid boost
>Considered major corporation, face of vtubing
>Now being outdone in technology department by indies
>Fuck up everything with regaurds to both EN and ID
ID is also a mystery, why the fuck do they go to Japan when Indonesia is cheap and they could jsut set up a 3D studio in Jakarta or somewhere? No passsports needed and it's not like EN where you have Americans, Canadians, Austrialians, Austrians and some living in Japan.

Oh well the money they save investing in EN and ID will go to good use with their shovelware game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37109818
My bad, I did not notice this was suppossed to be about EN specifically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107939
Vesper is a hag and he seems ok.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
fpbp

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
That is correct.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Immediate Impact:
- Myth off-collab
- Tempus

Gradual Impact:
- Mori

[Anonymous No.]

>>37110699
Kill yourself faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
>>37107021
nah

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
Hiring Mori was not a mistake.
Not firing Mori was the mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
>>37112069
Consider me retarded, mostly cause I only stop by /vt/ annually and I'm severely out of the loop, but what is Mori doing wrong? I'm not claiming she never has done anything wrong, I'm just genuinely curios

[Anonymous No.]

Qrd on the Myth off collab shit? I don't watch EN

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
tembus haha

[Anonymous No.]

>>37118023
She's fat and white and not fat and Japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>37123124
There's been a noticeable slowdown in Myth activity after the off collab. Gura hasn't collabed with Myth since outside of the Anniversary, Pico Park, and Among Us collab. Several members of Myth said they haven't spoken to Gura in a long time, and Myth as a whole seems particularly distant since the summer.
The honest truth is no one knows for sure what caused the rift. Here's a few things that happened, but who's to say if they actually caused drama or not:
>Mori dragged Gura into a big house party that got their address doxxed while they were there, Gura hid in a room for the evening
>Gura left Ame, Kiara and Ina to set up the 3D for Kiara's concert, stayed in her hotel room alone for most of the off collab week (it was heavily hinted she was being affected by whatever medical condition she's got)
>Kiara and Ame both said Ina had a short fuse and blew up at them while setting up the VR stuff
>Gura and Ame (?) both said that somebody's feet really stank at the off collab, the board was able to confirm via process of elimination it was Mori

I feel like none of these things would really be enough to justify a sudden rift in Myth's friendship, so who knows why they drifted apart even more after the off collab. Could be something else, but they seemed rather happy and relaxed when they did the final off collab karaoke, which is puzzling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37109310
>>37108881
>>37123913
you are making a mountain out of an anthill, Tempus wasn't needed but they hardly impacted anything, it's a cheap and easy answer that neglects cover's apathy toward western talents, improper scouting, and rigging. Do better and use your critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
for EN1 the meet-up, they realized they dont actually like each other in person and are barely tolerable online. pretty sure the meet-up was guras highest demotivator after seeing how uggo her genmates are

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Actually? Council “taking it easy”. I stopped watching because they stopped streaming, and my attention wandered elsewhere. You can’t stay relevant if people have to put in work to remember you. The unicorns give you money, the normalfags expose you to new potential unicorns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125033
Didn't Mori said that she reuses her old socks? Turn them over and good to go.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108423
This. The strict management rules have been a growing issue with holoEN since last year and that only got worse after Sana's graduation. They are expected to follow the absurd idol rules of JP hololive while also getting second rate treatment.

To make it worse holoEN now has a constant reminder with Tempus that holostars have less restrictions than hololive. Some of the holoEN talents clearly don't find it acceptable that they have to follow a different set of rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125566
Anon, these people want to jerk themselves off to their own smugness. Saying “Tempus was a symptom, not the main problem” is still calling homobeggars a cancer to HoloEN, but since it’s not patting them on the back for screaming “MALES” like a bunch of jackasses, they’re still not going to listen to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125566
>>37129704
you're on every thread replying to yourself, it's getting embarrassing. Do better and stop trying to deflect the obvious

[Anonymous No.]

>>37130937
I don't know who you're referring to or on about...

[Anonymous No.]

>>37129704
holoEN numbers were at their highest point since council debut right before tempus, and they've fallen to the lowest levels ever in the wake of tempus. Tempus may not be the only factor, but anyone claiming that they aren't a significant part of the picture is in serious denial. Speaking of smugness, where are all those smug faggots that crowed constantly in the immediate aftermath of the collab spam that they wouldn't hurt the numbers?

[Anonymous No.]

>>37109721
HoloEN would have been slut dominant right off the bat without Kiara.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
ONE GEN A YEAR was a mistake

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Hideous Irys model, immediately followed by hideous Sana model.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37132519
Frankly, I thought they wouldn’t hurt the numbers UNTIL it became collab spam. I genuinely thought that even Mori wasn’t enough of an idiot to do that. But you’re right, after she proved me wrong my confidence in their sense of preservation, as low as it already was, went through the basement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
>when did things start to go wrong for them?
>took them more than 1 year to fix Irys horrible model
>its taking them more than 2 years to fix Gura's horrible rigging
>its taking them more than 2 years to fix Mori

[Anonymous No.]

>>37134086
the collab spam was what make me "change opinions" on the tempus collabs. Ironically they seem to have noticed? sort of? suddenly stopped.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108828
>talents would have been able to travel to the office for 3D studio recordings and do all sorts of skits
US is a bigass country unlike Japan, it would be viable for anniversary events, maybe twice a thrice a year, but it wouldn't be as noticeably effective as the JP HQ.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37133866
It works for JP but not for EN because of collab restrictions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37134698
wait, they fixed Irys model, when?

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
council kinda take myths viewers, noticed how myths growth after council debut, then mori tried to go normies way to get more views but it didn't have a huge impact, goombal stay on her comfort zone, she had steady growth but thats not enough and lack creativity by en's management to keep the talents motivated, and i still cant figure out if tempiss gonna have a huge advantage in long run, see how ID trying with new things, specially their id3, instead of taking their senpai's viewers, they successfully got local normies on their side.

[Anonymous No.]

They all realized that all the effort they ever put in was for absolutely nothing and the can phone everything in and do the absolute bare minimum and still get tons of money from retarded viewers. I think the only ones that genuinely enjoy consistently streaming are Kiara, Mumei when she isn't doing college stuff, Bae when she's not also doing college stuff, IRyS and maybe Gura when she doesn't wanna just fuck off without a word. Everyone else is just kinda there sometimes and you won't really notice them gone. Any of you remember Ina? If not for this board I would have forgotten she was ever around and that she didn't just permanently leave or something. When you don't follow them religiously you start to really see how they're not that entertaining and how they barely try.

The first mistake was allowing vtubing to become normal streamers using an avatar. There's not much point in watching a vtuber when there's normal streamers out there with more freedom and more entertainment value. None of that matters if you're a brand loyalist sure, but it won't change that fact. If EN didn't make as much money as they do, I'm sure a bunch of them would have quit by now. Hell, even the audition page (which was updated) still includes the condition that you must stick around for at least one year. Cover doesn't necessarily give a fuck if you leave after a year, they've gotten lucky they got successful and talents stay. EN is stale as fuck for sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
EN management team

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Sana's dead dog.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
When they hired Mori and Ame. But to be fair it probably seemed like a good idea at the time because they both seemed so cute, funny, and motivated in the beginning. Cover had no way of knowing how badly they'd fuck up two years later.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125566
Tempus themselves didn't change anything, it's everything around them that ruined the whole atmosphere surrounding EN.
>cancerous fanbase begging for collabs left and right even for the girls who don't want mixed collabs
>management going even more full retard by giving them preferred treatment and allowing the collab spam
The whole branch would be doing a lot better if it weren't for them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
I swear mori did damage not just to hololive, but vtubing as a whole, every single normalfag, no effort female vtuber all cites mori as their favorite vtuber

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
From the start. It's not even about the talents sure some are pretty much unwatchable to me, but all in all HoloEN management is just a bunch of incompetents.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Might not be the biggest thing but hiring girls that live so far apart from each other probably wasn't the best move if they wanted the girls to foster some form of real friendship to help keep each other motivated

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Not having someone like Sora. What HoloEN lacks is the idol element.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125033
She hasn’t even mentioned myth in months, outside of maybe ina for umisea reasons

Myth unity is at an all time low and I honestly don’t blame her, it’s basically a power struggle with half of EN actively collabing with males and half not wanting to even be associated with the idea.

Mori started this saying she didn’t want to exclude them and notice that’s when a shit ton of people fucked off entirely.

Mori is the biggest threat to EN as a whole and despite her dwindling numbers on both her live and music she still continues to make dumb decisions that effect EN as a whole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Honestly, it was rust. That rust stream where Ame called Gura a bitch and where Mori was doing her stupid peace party and hiding in the safe zone so Gura couldn't attack.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Denying nijisanji collabs but allowing vshitshow.

Thinking it was okay to allow veibae a collab until fans exposed her for the whore that she is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107021
fpbp
>>37116977
dubs of truth

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
It was a mess from the start only one serious about the lifestyle that this job entails was Kiara and she was the most hated, expecting weebs to adopt the "idol" life is like expecting to get fruit from a fake tree.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107364
Go back to watching EN clips retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37109721
Yep if they didn't hire the only one that actually knew about vtubing and idol culture everything would have been fine...

[Anonymous No.]

>>37148181
Mori’s mistake was in revealing what she really thought. It basically revealed she has no idea what the fuck Hololive is about. Not that plenty of us didn’t know that already, but actually saying it is much different from it being inferred. It also comes with the problem that nothing you do can get back the core of the people who leave, just because the impression that you’re faking it and only doing this because that’s what your fans want rather than because you like it will never go away.
And by this, I mean the difference between doing a job because you have to and having a job you like that happens to have some bullshit to deal with—because even dream jobs come with that.
It doesn’t “have” to be fair. If you don’t like to do the kind of content that’s popular, and you can’t hide that fact, then tough shit, you’re going to fail. That’s entertainment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37118023
She's a normie that's occupying a place that would better suit someone else but that's true for 3/5 members of Myth and 4/5 of Council×Hope, you won't hear it from most people here tho cuz they have their slutty oshi on a pedestal.

[Anonymous No.]

Their biggest mistake is hiring people who are clearly just using the company for the name recognition instead of quality talent committed to the company.

- Mori straight up admitted she hated vtubing / vtubers in the start but knew of the popularity. It's clear she still has that mentality by how little she actually does. If she's not milking money from her fans via "announcement" streams, she's writing more generic, forgettable music to shill to them.
- Kiara was essentially a failed RL idol who knew she had to rely on a persona / appearance that wasn't hers and she's essentially used the Kiara to grow her "roommate" If she had been a Gen 2 EN talent, she'd be nowhere near as big as she is today, hell, she's probably be the Anya or EN, barely scraping 500 viewers when live. The fact that she got all those boosts and is literally the only one in her time slot, period, yet can't draw a big audience attests to that.
- Ina seemed to have been a low-mid level artist before Hololive with some recognition, but not super successful to the point of being a sustainable career. That front seems to have taken off, hence her essentially taking off from streaming half this year.

From Myth, the only two who really seem interested from the start were Gura and Ame, who were both streamers before hand. I think Ame is a lot more interested in the behind the scenes work though. As for Gura, I feel like she's kind of just tired of doing it and is going to ride out the milk train of her being THE biggest vtuber until people finally leave her for better, more entertaining streamers.

As for Council:
- Sana was a recommend from Ina, and we saw how that turned out. She barely managed 6 months of actual streaming.

The others, outside of Fauna and her ASMR, the rest never really brought anything to the table as a focus of entertainment uniqueness and it shows. They're all just mid level, forgettable talents that don't stand out at all.

Irys, I left for last because I literally forgot about her until I was essentially done talking about Council. She was supposed to be the vsinger of EN, yet no one really talks about her music. She's another one that just exists as a streamer, not really doing much or drawing in much attention.


Frankly, I think the reason we haven't heard of a Gen 3 yet is because the company is re-evaluating their hiring when it comes to EN talent. They need ones that are committed to the company as well as actually having a unique trait that will draw people in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37149225
>Chumcuck forgets to mention Gura in the using the company for personal gain section
Quick reminder that you are part of the problem too, you all need to stop shitting and pissing all over the hobby by acting like you are interested and then messing everything up and moving on to the new shiny jaoanese trend.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37132519

Looking at that chart, literally EVERYONE on the chart has shown a steep decline after Tempus, including people who have absolutely nothing to do with them. Your logic is just nonsensical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37135165

JP is as big as the US entire East Coastline, yet they manage. US could do the same if they had an office and made moving near it a requirement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37109838
irys is a halfu whose dad is a gaijin, she is subhuman in jap eyes

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125033
>>Kiara and Ame both said Ina had a short fuse and blew up at them while setting up the VR stuff
This was a funny story and Kiara and Ina spent the last stream of the offcollab cuddling together on the sofa

[Anonymous No.]

>>37149138
Mori openly admitting this is just a hustle for her music was what killed her career. Soon as she got that contract with universal and went on constant hiatus she basically told her fans she doesn’t care about them + her bitching at her fans, the cuck incident, the constantly fuck ups and that gura Airbnb incident.

Let’s not forget possibly the biggest one, being a tempiss cock sleeve.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37149966
Most of the Niji gens seem pretty stable. Iluna’s recline is obviously because of them more than Tempus. Or are you referring only to HoloEN?
Because that’s what that anon meant. It’s not just the ones who collabed with Tempus, which is why Tempus is related to, but not the direct cause of, the decline. Everything that happened after Tempus’ debut revealed the issues in HoloEN that had been becoming more apparent but became really obvious even to a bunch of normalfags, which is that they’re no different from any other EN vtuber, except their rigging is worse, they stream less, and they don’t collab as often with other people in the EN scene. The one thing about them that’s better is the brand, and everything else is either the same or worse.
The one thing the brand was good for was the hope (for unicorns) that there wouldn’t be males or (for the rest of us) that they would have enough self-awareness to be responsible about male collabs and treat them as interactions with a related, but separate, branch.
The impact of Tempus wasn’t male collabs on their own, because plenty of people can deal with that. It was that Tempus made fully clear there’s nothing about HoloEN that makes them different from any other EN corpo, and many of those don’t do collabs with males.
This is why “CGDCT” started popping up as a phrase around this time. It’s not cope. It’s anons trying to figure out why even though they don’t care if their oshi has a collab with a male once in awhile, *this* shit pissed them off. So yes, Tempus’ debut is related to HoloEN’s recline because it weakened the buff that the HoloEN brand was providing all of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37151577
CGDCT has been a phrase for over 15 years on /a/ and 4chan in general newfag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37150671
It’s started to occur to me…If I want to see a vtuber interact with fleshtuber culture, I can watch Pippa. If I want to see a vtuber interact with Connor specifically, I can watch Ironmouse. If I want to see people flirting on stream and make innuendo, I can watch fleshtubers. If I want to see that, but with anime avatars (for whatever ungodly reason), I can watch NijiEN. Mori’s only saving grace was that her early music was exciting, because “can you please RIP” and “Red” and the like were now joining “Comet” and “Shiny Smily Story” as part of the canon.
The idea that this is somehow bad, and that she didn’t want that? That was the issue. The fact that her appeal exists separate from Hololive? I don’t give a shit about Noel’s or Sora’s or Kaela’s rms either, that doesn’t diminish their worth as vtubers. The fact that no one gives a shit about her rm didn’t diminish her worth either to anybody except her—until she made it clear that she thought of it that way.
There’s thousands of 2views out there—vtubers, utaites, cosplayers, singers—who could replace any famous star in any sort of show business through pure ability alone. It’s the ability plus something more that you gain through connections that makes the superstars different from the no-names. And the connections she tried to make were anathema to what it meant to be part of Hololive. I don’t even think it had to be that way, it’s just that association with her shitty perspective turned it that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37151675
I know. I was already well aware of the phrase from anime. I mean its usage in the context of vtubing. That became much more common in /vt/ because people realized it fit as an analogy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37151577
I'm literally looking at the same picture as you are. The only one that is actually relatively stable on there is ethyria and obsydia.

The other dips don't look as extreme because they weren't nearly as big.

That said, it's also stability at 1/3 of Hololive numbers even after the decline.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37151675
ESL? It's clear that anon meant "CGDCT" was hardly ever used in relation to chuubas until this year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125033
It's Rust. That one stream killed GuraxAme, killed GuraxMori and she's distanced herself from myth ever since.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107364
>EN hags
Might as well be trying to hire an unicorn

[Anonymous No.]

They only hired three talents that seem to enjoy streaming, and they aren't particularly good at it. Too many of them are clock-punchers that don't really seem interested in the medium and are just doing it because it's cushy/convenient.

It's almost weird how open/unhelpful management is to them for how strict they are- I'd expect a talent agency to have some strong guidelines and assistance if they're going to be all over their talent's shit all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
January 7th, 2021, when Mori first misssed Ame’s totsu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
EN recruitment keeps getting defended

[Anonymous No.]

Things went wrong waaaaay back when Coco graduated and a total flood of Justice-fucks entered the community. Suddenly everyone remotely negative towards the talents' wishes was a chinaman or a troll and a bunch of cucks seeped in during that time and normalized HomoStars while they had literal immunity within the fandom. Nobody wanted them around, but everyone had to pretend everything is flowers and rainbows so they wouldn't be called an anti.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
No EN hags

[Anonymous No.]

>>37110699
No imagine if he were female

[Anonymous No.]

pandering to twitter fags that dont watch streams.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37149966
the chart is 100% blind to channel engagement after the stream is over. It's just CCV, one of yt's most broken metrics.
If we discuss channel health, the discussion should be centered around VoD views, which are way better processed and agnostic to timezone, CCVID, overlaps, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
unironically twitter and reddit joining the fanbase. It was good for their metrics but really skewed the fanbase heavily towards NPC behavior and criticism of the talents and/or company became intolerable.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108515
>bonnielen ship art is real
holy shit more of this please

[Anonymous No.]

I'd take a broader picture view and summarize the general longer term HoloEN recline thus with various points (non-exhaustive, not sorted, feel free to add)

A large part of the viewerbase was never actually committed fans in the first place, but basically just lockdown tourists. Vtubers were at the time the fresh new thing to entertain them while they were bored stuck at home. Now both the lockdowns are gone and vtubers aren't fresh and new anymore, so these people have moved on. Arguably, besides making "number go down", this might not even be a bad thing, regarding the quality of the viewerbase?

For Myth specifically, when they came out they were basically the "only game in town" and audiences had no real alternatives. We don't count Niji's embarrassing first attempt at "EN" (India), and twitch indies were still a minor league wild west wasteland. Holomyth came at a perfect lightning in a bottle moment, being the first serious attempt at a proper EN branch and Hololive was already the most popular corpo for westerners at the time due to the run-up of viral JP sub clips etc.

This, coupled with the aforementioned lockdown buff, meant that HoloMyths numbers in the beginning were probably a bit overstated and didn't actually reflect their actual long-term realistic/"stable" popularity/viability. Case in point, Council came next and couldn't repeat the explosive growth, indicating it wasn't (just) about the qualities about the talents but also extraneous factors involved (lockdown buff, novelty hype, first-mover advantage, etc.). And nowadays, if you are a viewer that still likes vtubers (so not just an above lockdown tourist), but are bored or otherwise dissatisfied with HoloEN, you aren't captive anymore and have much more alternatives to watch and may find other vtubers that better suit your actual tastes.

For example, if you actually like male collabs, you can just go watch the original gendermixing company, Niji, where this is much less controversial. Or if you are in it for the coom and want more raunchier stuff and Holo has become too safe and boring for you, you can go watch twitch indies.Or if you liked the original general Hololive feel, but it has gotten too corporate and impersonal for you and you want a smaller more comfier and intimate atmosphere, you can go watch all the smallcorpos that kinda imitate the Hololive model more or less, but where you actually have a more reasonable chance to get your chat read and interact with the streamer.

The only reason to stick with HoloEN and disregard all the alternatives is a) you are happy customer who is satisfied with the product, b) you are a bubbled corpo-drone who knows nothing about vtubing beyond the blue dorito, c) you are a tribalfag with a "yeah HoloEN might be shit, but at least it's not as bad as all the other alternatives!" mindset or d) you are sticking around due to stockholm-syndroming yourself into a parasocial relationship with your particular oshi and think giving it up would be "betraying her". If none of those reasons apply to you, and you're open to shopping around for potentially better alternatives, you have probably dropped HoloEN already or at least don't just watch it exclusively anymore.

Also, a big part of the general HoloEN recline (long before males entered the picture already) was that too many talents feel like they have basically given up on any effort and just go through the motions, minmax and coast along on the brand buff. They aren't hungry and motivated anymore (some arguably never were - this is especially noticeable in the second gen who already knew that Hololive would be a golden ticket and you don't need to put in any effort), and it's hard to stay hungry and not become complacent when fans throw money at you no matter how much (or rather how little) you actually do and basically reward you for just existing. Unless you're especially driven, most talents would just succumb to laziness and no delivery. And for the few talents that don't, Covers retarded management buerocracy does the rest of destroying their motivation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37151577
>there’s nothing about HoloEN that makes them different from any other EN corpo
HoloEN is currently struggling with being no different to their competition. That competition being anything in "entertainment", not only other vtubers.
There's no fear of missing out, because on youtube there's always the VoD or the clips (Another reason why CCV is a shit metric).
If HoloEN can't show aggregate value to their live streams on their own, then they need to hire people who do. Right now they are only offering personalities while not having any showman (Pekora-class) any box builder (Coco-class) any hag leader (FBKing-class) nor any hardcore gamer (which come in Aqua, Kaela and Towa flavours).
Time and amortization can kill the branch if management keeps taking its fucking time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125033
>the board was able to confirm via process of elimination it was Mori.
this sounds hysterical but would love proof

[Anonymous No.]

>>37163055
Redditor, the audience isn't switching to other vtubers. The golden era is over. The CCV is either stable or reclining for everyone.
The people leaving are just doing some other shit instead of watching some other anime person doing a live stream.

[Anonymous No.]

Things were always wrong. Even people who can delude themselves that all Jap women are angels know what Anglosphere women are like. You KNOW all of these girls find it stupid, and abhor the idea of purity. You KNOW it's used goods behind the mic. You KNOW it's not some cute girl who grew up on vidya and anime like you, it's yet another Twitter irony weeb. There's an idea of a distinction between vtubers and Twitch e-thots etc, but no American girl who streams is substantially different to any titty streamer skank. The veil is barely visible.

[Anonymous No.]

sana graduation.

coco graduation, fuck china.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37118023
The list of things she did is longer than the fucking post character limit.
But in short, the people she brought into the hobby did untold damage to it. Worst part is that they're fucking off now and she's starting to become irrelevant because of it but the damage is still done and will likely never get undone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108828
very good summary

[Anonymous No.]

>>37125566
tempus was a reaction to the nijicucks you retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>37134698
what's wrong with moris character?

[Anonymous No.]

>>37108515
Can't artists draw Selen getting fucked by dogs or something instead?
I have a hard time taking bobon seriously as some sort of chad

[Anonymous No.]

>>37145920
thats false, lesbos love mori

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Management

[Anonymous No.]

>>37163580
I wonder why all the other indies and corpos are inclining then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37169437
Holos being de facto number 1 has made them extremely lazy and arrogant. Why put in effort when retarded cucks will still throw money at you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>37164226
Translating this into something a little less schizo and actually worthy of analysis:
Weeb culture is weaker in the west than in many other countries. It’s not as mainstream as in, say, Korea or Taiwan or (yeah, I’m about to say it) Indonesia, Brazil, or Mexico.
It’s more than possible to be an actual weeb who watches anime and reads manga and be a girl, the burden of proof is just higher because the general perception of weebs being girls too isn’t quite there yet, and the perception of vtubing being easy money is there (this doesn’t mean they’re both strictly true).
So any vtuber who tries to lean too hard into the normalfag twitch stuff comes across like she’s trying to get more of those fans rather than the core vtubing fans because she cares more about views than the kind of content traditionally associated with vtubing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37164814
Her moral character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
there are not enough male x female collabs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37107004
Holoen was only amazing due to the vtuber scene they debuted into, and what was happening in the world during that time (covid). It's not something that can be appreciated looking backwards, you had to watch it in real time.
Now that those conditions have changed, the magic is gone. Even more so because they decided to kill any unity they had left. Existing fans are leaving, and new ones really don't have a reason to watch holoen specifically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37150671
On one hand honesty is nice but it is also very unprofessional. Mori makes it worse by both admitting it and then trying to change things to suit her desires rather than just doing the job itself. Admitting it is just a job is one thing but then doing that job poorly to the extent it harms others is terrible.
Compare it to someone like Fauna who keeps her cards close to her chest, follows her character and is always on the lookout for opportunities to advance her character (and thus herself). It is cynical but very professional.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37149730
The difference is people using it to advance their own personal side career that they really care about and those that don’t, as well as those that actually wanted to be streamers (even if they are over it now) and those that didn’t.

[Anonymous No.]

>>37152084
Calliope has major imposter syndrome except it isn’t a syndrome, she’s right. Hololive is a massively profitable break that is the source of all her success rather than her personally, and she doesn’t actually care about hololive because it is just a job. She wants to be successful and known as herself but she isn’t and even the success she does get there is only because people know she is Calliope. If she died the articles would be all about Calliope.
It is a lot to cope with and unfortunately she turns to alcohol and making trouble for others.