discusion about the subjectivity of entertainment, people who hate vtubers and more

[Anonymous No.]

hello, i want to talk about vtubers because i never understood why people like them because i consider their content bad, and also because im bored
i will say why but before i have to make some statements

no i dont think vtubers should stop existing
no i dont think vtubers should get harrased,
no im not here just to say "durr hurr vtuber = bad"
no i dont think "all vtubers fans are stupid" or something between this lines
but we also have to understead that the opposite can be said, im here to say that people who say "vtubers fans are stupid because vtubers are bad content creators" may have a point, not in the "vtuber fans are stupid" part but in the "vtubers are bad content creators"
that being said here is my main point

i never understood why vtuber fans have a such dedicated fanbase, it may have something to do with idol culture but thats for later, i consider streamer in general bad content creators because their content is just based around sitting on a chair and saying stuff, but vtubers in specific are a interesting case because streamers atleast may be funny, may do interesting things in their stream such as playing games at a high level, but the thing is with vtubers is that they dont do that, they are not funny (atleast not in the same level as people who actually make the more traditional style of humor do), they just play normal games all day and sometimes chat, but the thing i noticed about vtubers is not that their content is good, i actually understood why people like it but i dont know if i like what i see, lets go over it

what i undestood about vtuber content is that its not based around something funny or else, its "moe culture" and "idol culture", we have this girl who does a cute voice with a vtuber avatar, i bet my ass that they would not be able to make a (real) stand up comedy special for example, its all about the person itself, they look like those angel-ish beings who are all love, sometimes scream in rage or something else but everyone thinks thats cute so its another part of this perfect thing, idol culture is the thing that adds this look at the people who do the content that they are perfect are should be idolatrized (its in the name), and the moe culture part adds to this "uwu lets say something with a baby voice" thing that people love, but thats the "subjectivity of entertainment" part, the reason why people like vtubers so much is because of the combo of idol culture, waifu culture, parasocial relationships and moe culture? some people dont think thats bad and i dont do either but my point is, if people think thats stupid there is probably a reason for it, i personally (and read that well, personally) think thats kinda lame, because its just obessison with dopamine rush's, but we also have to consider the possibility that im wrong and they are actually funny or something like that, how?
thats the part that i really want to understand, how? i cannot see how they are funny, i cannot see how someone would watch them for reasons other than the ones i listed

and this makes me enter the question of, does "bad entertainment" even exists at all? like some people like the content and some people dont, so there is no way to account how good something is because it depends on the person and not a metric or calculation? if thats true then we cannot judge any content at all because it depends on the viewpoint of the person, boobie streamers? they dont do shit all day but some people like it, shitty isekai animes? the drama the plot and everything else is bad but there is alot of people who watch it so we cannot judge, cardi B songs? its just sex but hey some people jerk off listening to it (the last one is truly subjective)

so i want to know the opinion of people who actually like vtubers on that, im interested

regards, t

[Anonymous No.]

>Men like cute women
>Most women stopped being cute
>These women at least pretend to be cute
>Men like these women

Its really not difficult

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
thats kinda sad

[Anonymous No.]

I'm not reading all that
also >>28346825 is right
fpbp

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346983
>>28346646
Rent free... if you got the EQ. Redirect your focus and go fucking solve the world crisis instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>he has never watched any cgdct anime
Fuck off normalfag

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347186
i just like to have discussions, i dont actually give a fuck i can just not watch them

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
Koro-san isn't that cute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347269
Allahu ackbar this thread jannies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
based

[Anonymous No.]

I like it because it's streaming, but it's female dominated and I don't get to see their faces. You're assuming everyone here is for the idol shit, and while I am, I also enjoy watching them play autism simulators or do karaoke and piano streams. Plus as far as EN vtubers go, it's a fresh start for a streaming culture divorced from the already established streaming culture flesh streamers have.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347365
picture not entirely related

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
>cute anime girls doing cute anime things.
With your level of introspection, you should have already known what content you're into and found a vtuber whose content suits your tastes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
fpbp

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347463
i know the vtubing culture has alot of variety, thing is that as far as im aware what i described is the majority, and also the majority of vtuber fans also are into that which makes me focus on that point

[Anonymous No.]

Here's a recent piece of content from my favorite vtuber that I really enjoyed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P6sDt0Yh30
I understand if you don't particularly enjoy it, but to deny the objective quality and effort behind it, especially compared to "people who sit on a chair and are actually funny" is a little weird to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347423
a thing i like about vtubers is that they are atleast different from your usual streamer, but everyone knows different is not equal to good

but if you are not bothered with it could you specifically explain how watching them "play autism simulators" is entertaining? i asume its just the normal funny gameplay thing that if someone plays a game in a moment or another they will get some laughs out of it, which i can understead

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347704
im sorry if i sound rude but effort does not necessarily make something good, that being said thats not actually bad, its well done and i understead that, if vtubers where all that i could actually enjoy them very much but my focus is on the streams itself

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347831
people enjoy cute girls partaking in interests similar to them and sharing it
what's so difficult to see about that?
also, how old are you? you type like a 14 year old

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
It is simply different strokes for different folks. Before I was into vtubers I watched straight up streamers on twitch. Some of them had a facecam, some of them didn't and just had the game and maybe their overlay. I found out about Hololive, and since I already liked idol shit, it sucked me in pretty easily and nowadays I enjoy many different vtubers from corpos and indies.
Even if you take all the vtubers we have, there are a large variety of styles they do their entertainment. Some are funny, some are just great conversation, some are innovators trying to see how else to expand their entertainment, some are legitimately amazing at games, and yes some of them pander to the "moe" and "idol" culture, while some go out of their way to distance themselves from it.
This is just a drop in the bucket choice of entertainment just like anyone else doing their own thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
fpbp

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
Its a genre of anime, "Cute girls doing cute live streaming things".

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348076
quoting from my own post
>thats the part that i really want to understand, how? i cannot see how they are funny, i cannot see how someone would watch them for reasons other than the ones i listed
>and this makes me enter the question of, does "bad entertainment" even exists at all?
the thing is that may be entering philosophy territory so asking that in a vtuber board is kinda stupid of me

and English is not my main language

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
they're just streamers that are ugly irl so they use a model instead of a facecam why are you overanalyzing this shit
people obsess over streamers too
It's the same shit, just more weeby

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347944
This was part of a stream, her 4th anniversary celebration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mknggf96fuI
It's not like they can afford to this every day, so obviously not all of the content will be like this. But she still does regular karaoke streams, for example.
Obviously effort doesn't make something good, but good is subjective. The effort that goes into taking singing and dance lessons, music composition, or arrangement and mixing when it comes to covers, creating choreographies, camera direction and all that crap isn't subjective. To call them "bad content creators" sounds odd to me.
If a person prefers to watch someone being funny with the chat-driven culture of twitch over this kind of content, I very much understand. To say they're better content creators than people throwing literal concerts goes a bit beyond personal preference.
I'd rather sit at home jacking off than watch a Marvel movie. I wouldn't call myself jerking off "better content".

[Anonymous No.]

there's nothing wrong with liking vtubers
there's nothign wrong with disliking vtubers
stop being fucking primates about it

[Anonymous No.]

i just realized how stupid questioning the subjectivity of the interpretation of the world is in a vtuber board

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348372
again, im talking about the normal streams, this type of thing is really good

[Anonymous No.]

>>28347831
>everyone knows different is not equal to good
If you do like the default, then anything that diverges from that could potentially be more appealing. Which vtubing is for me. "autism simulators" in this case are my preferred genre of video games and watching them while I do something else is more entertaining than watching some high skilled streamer play something I have absolutely no fucking clue about.
And as for "vtubers not being videogames" I would like to offer Anya Melfissa
https://youtu.be/ax7f3JZJHSw
Because while the average vtuber is bad at videogames, watching her is a different experience because until recently she is a blank slate with no preconceived notions on how certain videogames are supposed to play and watching someone like her getting thrown to well-oved cult classics and agonizing go through them with sheer stubbornness is a very unique experience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348401
Yes try other places on the internet, I'm sure you'll eventually get results

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348401
What vtubers do you fucking watch. Why don't we start with that.

[Anonymous No.]

ok this was a bad idea, have a good day

- regards, t

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348401
You could've just asked "fun thing are fun but why" and the answer is that they are unless trannies or cucks are involved because trannies and cucks hate fun

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
>Real Life Anime Girls
That's literally it. Did you really have to do a Reddit blogpost to overanalyse this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348304
they can be funny, but it's contextual.

with regards to philosophy, in some sense nothing is objective but that's sort of stupid. I'm free to do and consume whatever the fuck I want and so are you, but so too am I free to judge you as cringe for say watching titty streamers and you me, and I can even try to influence people about you. then I'm free to make up justifications as are you. and so on until there's some manufactured discourse consent at the societal level. but still despite that I'm free to do what I want and enjoy it, but you also can't escape the societal thing. so then people fight wars over that societal thing, and you get tribalfag wars forever. vtuber vs streamer, streamer vs youtuber, youtuber vs just playing games, new games vs old games, types of games, even vtuber vs vtuber.

but yes, when someone says "X is objectively Y" when you unwrap it they're just executing some brain algorithm and revealing information about it, not spouting fundamental secrets of the Platonic forms that define the universe.
at the same time, once you fully understand this you understand that the Platonic forms is not the point, nor is complete subjectivity.

[Anonymous No.]

Vtubing is more like a medium inside of content creating that a genre. Vtubing is not exclusive to streamers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348497
The "normal streams" fund this type of thing. The support they get while doing their best sucking at a game, singing, learning an instrument, talking and selling their merch is used to pay for all of the behind the scenes stuff that goes into the big celebrations.
You seem to think that "idol culture" is about receiving a perfect package, but it couldn't be further from the truth. That's more in line with the corporate "star" we're more used to in the west, but idol culture is about the struggle, about the path. About supporting them as they work towards their dreams.
This vtuber I linked twice now is crazy about that game called Ark, that I think is complete trash. I don't care about it, and either throw her Ark streams as background noise or ignore them completely. Still worth supporting her to watch her growth and seeing the ever improving quality of her big event streams.
Here's her first original song, by the way, シャルイース, with lyrics written by her in a made up elven language she created herself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii7rtNaGlls
Still not seeing how "being skilled at a videogame" should be worth more than that to me. I can be decent at games myself, don't need to live that through other people. Most definitely don't need to monetarily support people who do that, just so they use the money on stuff that I'll never see a return on. Those music videos and concerts cost money, the games streamers pay usually don't even, publishers will give them codes for the free promotion. At most they'll upgrade their rig each couple of years or whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348653
AND FUCK OFF TO KIWIFARM w your 1000 WORD ESSAY

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348823 (me)
To add, my main issue comes from your comparison to "regular streamers", I don't think vtubing is high art or anything. But the same thing as being good at videogames applies here. I don't need it to be. Why would I want a bootleg version of quality entertainment instead of just reading a book?
A book won't improve in its singing, dancing and concert direction abilities as I continue to support it. A book won't be a replacement girlfriend for a pathetic loser like me (or replacement friend for twitch zoomers who watch fleshtubers). If I want quality entertainment, I'll go after quality entertainment. What I want from vtubers I can't get there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348935
>A book won't be a replacement girlfriend for a pathetic loser like me
im the only one who thinks thats kinda unhealthy?

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349107
Society is unhealthy but that anon's self-awareness of his own conditions elevates himself to be above it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349107
self-medication is preferable to no medication

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349213
knowing that you are a jerk does not make you less of a jerk, and it also does not make you above the other jerks, it can actually make you more of a jerk because you know you are a jerk and you do nothing about it

>>28349269
self-medication can be dangerous as fuck, i really dont know if thats a good idea

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
Didn't read your post, but your picture reminded me that Korone is literally better than all of HoloEN combined, especially now that Ame said that stuff. Thanks for reminding me that there are still good things in life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349402
Why would I be subservient to the expectations of polite conduct of others? Exorcise yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349107
Unhealthy is relative. It may be "fake" happiness, but people who feel the need to point that out seem to believe it's a binary between fake happiness and real happiness, and we're being misled to choose the former.
Fake happiness is a hell of a lot better than real misery.
You're also assuming I'm settling for a "second best" option. I don't really want a real girlfriend, I didn't find vtubers while trying to cope about not being able to have one. Not saying I would be able either, I wouldn't know, I never tried, genuinely don't want one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349554
thats called egoism, thats expected from 4chan but damm

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
fippybippy

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349672
fake hapiness is better than real misery, but real hapiness is better than fake hapiness, you act like everything is lost just cuz you are not happy without them

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349692
>eogism
Why yes I literally posted a picture of Anya dressed as Max Stirner while holding the book "The Ego and It's Own" by the same author, how could you fucking tell? Your mind is haunted by artificial constructs and they're hijacking your mental facilities. Call the ghostbusters and get rid of those spooks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346983
Women are not entitled to men's attention. Bitches ESPECIALLY aren't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349402
It can. But it can also make you aware of your character flaws and better at keeping them in check when in the presence of others.
You know, hiding your power level and all. I don't have too much social interaction on my free time, but at least from the reactions I get at work from my customers, I seem to be doing a pretty good job at presenting myself and acting as a decent person.

>>28349835
I'm not acting like everything is lost, at all. I did before, back when I would probably be the one playing your role if I ever got into this same argument, pretentious bullshit and all, but I'm fairly happy now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
My oshi's stream went offline 5 hours ago after a 12 hr stream and i'm constantly refreshing her twitter and YouTube and rm accounts hoping she'll come back. What do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>28349835
>just go get real happiness, bro
Oh shit, why the fuck didn't he think of that? Christ, it really was just that easy - just be happy. How the hell are there even unhappy people in the world? Literally just tell your brain "be happy"

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
/thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346983
Yes, but it's the world we live in.

[Anonymous No.]

OP is actually right that most vtubers are incredibly talentless and carried by the anime girl shtick. Where would Ame be without the blonde big booba model for instance? Is Mori really going to be able to sign with UMG based on the merits of her music quality? Only a tiny handful of these girls are actually good at what they do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
I used to think EN vtubers were cringe and that JP ones were the best but then I discovered Gura. She surpassed all my expectations. I am glad that Hololive puts effort in finding high quality girls, not just based on voice, but appearance as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
>but vtubers in specific are a interesting case because streamers atleast may be funny, may do interesting things in their stream such as playing games at a high level, but the thing is with vtubers is that they dont do that, they are not funny (atleast not in the same level as people who actually make the more traditional style of humor do), they just play normal games all day and sometimes chat, but the thing i noticed about vtubers is not that their content is good, i actually understood why people like it but i dont know if i like what i see, lets go over it
The fact that you believe that most normals streamers are actually funny (when most are just garbage, and some are funny, some are thirst traps, every streamer is different) and that every vtuber isn't (when some are, some are thrist trap ,every vtuber is different) is proof that you're completely retarded

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
>i consider streamer in general bad content creators because their content is just based around sitting on a chair and saying stuff
And yet, you post an image of someone sitting in a chair making a fucking 50+ minute video complaining about vtubers? Which probably took them months to compile, record and edit.

[fippybippy No.]

>>28346825
fippybippy

[Anonymous No.]

>>28350689
>carried by the anime girl shtick.
This is the future though. People should have always been able to choose how they look. Even normie society is picking it up like Meta. Vtubing was just ahead of the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
>does "bad entertainment" even exists at all?
Yeah, especially if its woke entertainment or even entertainment that is meant for the lowest common denominator in society aka Normies.

So yes objectively there is such a thing as bad entertainment.

[Anonymous No.]

Vtubers are like regular streamers: some are funny and some aren't.
For me specifically the appeal is that Vtubers deliberately and openly play a character, with recurring gags and character traits. I also like that they look like cute anime girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
>FPBP
Put me in the screenshot

[Anonymous No.]

>>28350774
Yeah I don't get how OP seems to grasp that streamers "may be" funny or entertaining (or may not be) but assumes vtubers just aren't funny in any way because you couldn't take one and make a stand up comedian out of them. Retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
kys

[Anonymous No.]

>>28356449
If you insist

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346825
FPBP

[Anonymous No.]

I'm addressing your final paragraph since that's more interesting to me, and I feel like the question you're asking is approaching a biological question akin to "why does watching this content result in chemical release that results in enjoyment?". We know the reason why some people don't like cilantro is because the difference in people that have a gene mutation to pick up the similar scent of soap, and people don't like eating soap. That's referring to it at a high level in a way we can talk about it with human language while the reality goes further in the realm of the soap smell resulting in a response in the brain that inclines us to not eat it. But regardless of which side you're on with regards to cilantro, I think most people don't actually think lesser of people on the other side. They can watch people eat cilantro without issue, or they can offer a dish cooked with cilantro to someone and understand when it gets passed without taking any.
That's how I see stuff like vtubers/streamers who just play games in general vs. other entertainment disciplines. Consumers will naturally select towards what they enjoy, and I think it's likely that seeing Ina act like a cute woman/Vox act like a confident sexual male is included. I don't think anyone has trouble knowing if they are enjoying something. If someone said, "I'm enjoying watching The Boys", I take that as a fact, so they should definitely keep watching that show. If asked why we enjoy watching Amelia, we could say the reason is because she's funny, cute, and we like when she does creative streams that go beyond playing a game or singing. That's our attempt at reasoning out, probably not exhaustively, why we enjoying watching her. I feel that's just us making our best guesses for that why that fact is.
So I can't agree or not if I think "bad entertainment" exists without a definition for what you mean. I don't personally care if someone likes watching isekai, xqc, or professional standup comedians, or listening to cardi B, they aren't for me but it seems good there are more options available for people to find something they like. Labeling one or more of those kind of entertainment as bad feels like it engenders some negative reason they shouldn't be enjoyed, which more sounds like a bad thing. If the form of entertainment involved something that was harmful or destructive, such as if xqc used his large platform of viewers to harass another streamer like happened with pokeman earlier this year, then I could see the use of a "bad" tag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
Op, you don't have to like everything. You don't even have to understand everything. You can peacefully co-exist with things that have no impact on your life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28348304
>doesn't understand Japanese
>can't understand why the back and forth with chat is funny
>can't understand chuuba's comments during gaming
>have no context of inside jokes
>"Why funny? How funny? Bad entertainment no exist?"
Retard-chama

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
I'm not going to read all that. But just want to point out that vtubers do things besides play games and chat. Stuff like drawing, singing, voice acting, ASMR, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28360729
This post. Retarded OP is not even trying to understand. Trying to judge something with surface level knowledhe should be considered slander.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28360729
OP is probably all of 16 years old and imagines himself quite the thinker. He'll come around once his balls drop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>28346646
Pekora, Korone, Miko are three kings of the business and their main strengths are comedy. Don't discount it.