Holocure: Save the Fans!

[Anonymous No.]

A thread for the Vampire survivors inspired Holo fan game

Link to download the game:
https://kay-yu.itch.io/holocure

HoloCure Twitter:
https://twitter.com/HoloCureGame

Leader boards are currently down because too many people are playing the game. Will be fixed in a later update. You can still play and brag about your score here though so we don't clutter up other threads

Assortment of information(e.g. unlocks etc.)
https://rentry.org/vehan

Previous thread:
>>27231842

>Past Streams:
Shion: https://youtu.be/xoQfOBdKKt0
Noel: https://youtu.be/b709qbFB9BE
Miko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veE2Q2_0qJc
Flare: https://youtu.be/GlfJQ22nhF4
Reine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olAmtV1fDd0
Watame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qK5cURIbEI
Kaela: https://youtu.be/D7fVrNePpNE
Zeta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3QnXpM3BZ4
Ollie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwM8-P2t8sM
Anya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ_y_Am4O3A

[Anonymous No.]

___________________________________________
############################################################################################
ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object obj_PlayerManager:

Push :: Execution Error - Variable Index [4] out of range [4] - -1.options(102350,4)
at gml_Script_DrawOption_gml_Object_obj_PlayerManager_Create_0
############################################################################################
gml_Script_DrawOption_gml_Object_obj_PlayerManager_Create_0 (line -1)
gml_Object_obj_PlayerManager_Draw_64

wtf second time in a row...

[Anonymous No.]

Every chuuba is gonna want fan mascots now

[Anonymous No.]

>>27264983
If this happens I'm going to start commissioning porn of the fan mascots fucking the vtubers until it stops.

[Anonymous No.]

Should there be other uses for coins?

[Anonymous No.]

Dumb question: Irys has a skill that gives her an attack buff if she gets healed once every 5 seconds and it stacks but you can also buy auto healing in the store for a point every 5 seconds. With this store purchase does that guarantee that Irys damage buff is always active, even if you take all her other healing out of account?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27265244
No, the regen from the store does not trigger Irys's ability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27266552
Well I guess I'm happy and disappointed, happy that the dev prevented this cheese strat from happening but I'm disappointed that this isn't a cheese strat I can use

[Anonymous No.]

>>27264983
I'm surprised that there are still holos that don't have them

[Anonymous No.]

>>27266552
Does it work for fauna's ability?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27265156
Buying the erotic cutscenes

[Anonymous No.]

>>27265244
past 5 minutes the enemy density is so high her damage buff never goes away as is

[Anonymous No.]

is it worth it to get the new version? I only noticed minor changes with the UI in the newer streams of this game but I am not sure if they added something like a buff or a significant fix to update it

[Anonymous No.]

>>27269855
When did you last update? There were two patches yesterday, one that massively buffed Calli and one that was just bug fixes.

[Anonymous No.]

im trying to do the ina cheese strat to get coins where did it go wrong? am i just bad at the game

[Anonymous No.]

>>27270143
I think 3 days ago.
What was the calli buff?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27268521
No. It does not trigger anything in game that triggers from heals, as far as I am aware.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27270347
Calli buff removed the dead zone on her scythe, and gave her strong early game power in the form of kills having a %chance to trigger explosions, which can chain. She still falls off late, and kills from explosions don't appear to trigger Choco horns. Mumei also go got a slight nerf to her feathers, and a buff to her History skill (which proceeded to break it, giving it twice the buff amount it's supposed to, and removing the cap on it's scaling.)

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27270625
There's also seemingly a third bug on history where sake/piki cause it to give random huge damage buffs when hit. It resets when you level but will trigger again when you get hit so she gets to damage buffs of over +1000% fairly regularly

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27270300
Stop taking superchat. It's pointless, more than 90% of your coins will come from level ups in endless.

Also be careful not to go over 400 HP or it'll be impossible for the yagoos to ever kill you.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27270300
>>27271141
Also BL Fujoshi is bad for endless, it has no knockback. The knockback on base BL matters more. Stop getting baited into the "more collabs are always better" meme.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27270964
You are correct, I was just lazy and didn't feel like typing that out. Wish I could see the code to figure out how that bug got in there, since they shouldn't be related in anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271528
I want to fuck sprite fubuki

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271528
Is this a leak? Where is okayu?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271705
What a coincidence, I want to fuck all Fubukis. Yes, even that one.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271874
It's not a leak it's a datamine, it's just her idle animation. They're not all in there yet. Probably something Kay was messing with in a test build and forgot to take out before pushing it out the door.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271964
>>27271874
You can see their unmoving sprites colorized though by messing with the contrast on the Gamers banner, since it's just the regular ass sprites color shifted. Someone posted a screenshot of the banner yesterday, but I didn't save it.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27272295
>>27272409
I love that Kronii and Mumei both fuckin' Naruto run.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>27272469
Does her fuckin' idle animation have titty jiggle?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27272577
2 pixel's worth of jiggle.

[Anonymous No.]

With the sprite dump happening, I feel compelled to ask: the gameplay is solid, but how do we feel about the art? Any spicy opinions on the spritework, animation, backgrounds, music etc.?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273276
Cute and very well done considering it's all fan made.
Compare it to the game it's based off of and it's like night and day in terms of polish and aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27265156
You know some of us haven't cleared the shop and Gacha ranks right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273276
Need an option to change bgm. I want to hear mogu mogu while crit building bae

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273276
I personally think the game lacks the visual clarity of VS and it’s only going to get worse as more sprites get added. There are too many colors, too many sprites of similar silhouette, and abilities quickly obscure much of the screen. It’s an issue and there isn’t really a way to fix it without redesigning and or recoloring sprites, but then they’d likely be noticeably off model.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273813
>Try to get away from mob
>Die because you got stuck on a fence/rock/pillar

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273969
Never happened to me. Sounds like a skill issue on your part.

[Anonymous No.]

I have no clue how to survive past 25 all the enemies just seemingly outrun me

[Anonymous No.]

I regret my decision
It says 1:18 but it has actually been 4+ hours because of how laggy it gets

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274743
your settings reps anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274843
disabling number and effects and cranking it back to 360p doesn't help in the slightest

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274743
Turn off numbers. It still slows down but not as badly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274893
I know. I left numbers on for the screenshot for impact

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274668
>Taking the mask
First mistake. Replace it with the plushie. Maybe replace the sake too by the daki to get a little something out of her perfection skill

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274743
Kronii is just not that good. Her and kiara are the weakest by now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274668
As Kronii you don't have to outrun anything ever. Get Plushie, Nurse Horns, Headphones and Full Meal. Get inside your Time Bubble whenever it pops up. Nothing except Yagoo will be able to kill you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274888
it does though

[Anonymous No.]

>>27275179
>Get Plushie, Nurse Horns, Headphones and Full Meal
valid for any character, with most getting better results than kronii

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274668
>take Elite Cooking
>stand still
>profit

[Anonymous No.]

>>27274668
Sake isn't an endless item

[Anonymous No.]

>>27272062
whipped this up quick in paint, should give a general idea of what the sprites will look like

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271874
Best I've got is a static image of Gamers I pulled from the gacha tease and put through photoshop to reveal. Color is a bit overexposed, but otherwise this is them.

[Anonymous No.]

How do you farm coins in endless? The only way to not die immediately to the Yaggoo rush is to become unkillable, at which point the only way to end is to quit the game, which yields no coins. Is it all just about the 1-hit hardcore mode?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27276553
Nobody farms coins on endless without cheating. Everybody farms stage mode for the bonus coins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27276553
There's no reliable way to do it since any way that lets you still die could result in dying too early and anything that lets you reliably survive means the game will probably crash before you die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27276553
While stage is the mode most efficient for coin farming, if you're persistent on endless you have two options: use CheatEngine to kill yourself or wait for however long it takes for the Yaggoos to scale up and overwhelm your sustain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273276
>spritework
looks fine, the hologirls are cute. i do agree with >>27273813 that with some abilities the screen feels very cluttered. it's a personal pet peeve also that ina's converted takodachis don't really stand out (or the mobs around them blend in,) so in hardcore i don't really want to touch them in case there's an actual mob nearby that i've missed
>animation
not bad
>backgrounds
alright i guess, the ui is clean, the level is a grassy field so there's not much to really say about it
>music
i turn it off there's only so many times i can listen to "suspect." i think it'd be cool if in the future every character has one of their original songs as the BGM

[Anonymous No.]

I'm trying to push Irys and Bae to 31+ minutes. What are the best pure dps weapons and items for Bae and the best tank setup for Irys? Am i understanding correctly, that damage buffs from the mask and asacoco are additive and not multiplicative, so it makes them completely useless? What is the meta for combos and regular weapons, any tierlists?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27276710
>>27276803
That makes sense. In hindsight it'd be pretty busted if you could walk away with over 100k coins from a single run of endless. Though I still wish there was some way to get at least something out of a good run besides a potential leaderboard score.

>>27276951
I didn't even realize they were scaling up since I kept investing in stats for 2 hours in the hopes of clearing them faster and making the game lag less.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273434
Yeah but I don't even want to rank up every single character. Surely there can be more unlockables than just characters and the universal upgrades.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271528
time to create this in my minecraft world

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277190
They might add more uses later.

[Anonymous No.]

So Noel is the worst holo at HC? Miko and Kaela were pretty bad but they both eventually cleared it even if it was more luck than intention. Noel didn't even make it past the shieldbeat filter.

>>27277143
Honestly I do think quitting not saving your gold is a developer oversight more than something intentional.

[Anonymous No.]

what is the strongest character + build load out you've come up with so far?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27276951
I wonder if it could work by intentionally leaving an equipment slot open and then getting injection asacoco when you want to die. Would only work if you struck a close enough balance that it was enough to offset your heals though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277405
I feel like Bae's extended crits and spam special give her the highest DPS potential overall, but I may be wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27275093
Kronii is good for reasonable playthroughs. Her large SPD, haste, and crit makes her scale weapons well. But right now the only thing that matters is farming efficiency (Mumei, then Calli second) and endless potential (Ina, Gura, IRyS distant third). Kiara is a lot weaker and way more annoying to play. I'm not sure if Kiara needs a full rework but she might be an indicator of things to come. Some characters are just going to be more awkward or unwieldy to play.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277443
You will eventually get railroaded into picking a passive item.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273276
>spritework
I like the sprites a lot and I think they're cute, though Fauna's special makes it hard to see behind it.
>animation
It's kinda fun running around with Kiara and setting things on fire and Ina's special reminded me of the rabbit blenders in the Blood-C anime.
>backgrounds
It's alright.
>music
Is going to get repetitive the longer I play this game given the one track right now.
>trees and fences
>get stuck
>enemies don't
Fuck trees and fences.
>>27277323
>Noel didn't even make it past the shieldbeat filter.
lmao

[Anonymous No.]

>>27275093
>>27277501
For what it's worth I found Kiara to be one of the most beginner-friendly characters, at least initially. Though she definitely doesn't scale well as you improve your playstyle.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277123
For Iyrs, see picrel. Not sure on Bae. Mask and Asacoco are both additive to your +%ATK, but that is multiplied by other things, so it's a little of both. And even so they are the only offensive items anyway, so it's not like you can replace them with anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277588
Every single character runs the exact same shit for 30m+
>Horns
>Glasses
>Plushie
>Meal
>Headphones
And one flex pick, can be milk, can be coffee, can be credit card though I don't recommend it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277691
Glasses aren't really necessary are they? I got to 2.5 hours with superchats instead >>27277143

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277691
Yes but with Iyrs you need to sack weapons for stats. She has no built in defensive tools like Gura, so she's going to get hit frequently. Conversely, neither of her built in heals require you to kill anything, so you don't need as much damage. So for her specifically, taking a single combo and pumping HP is the only way you survive post 30.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277691
It's not our fault that the only way to stand up to the yagoo rush is to become literally invulnerable and that's the combo that does it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277743
They are necessary for everyone except for Inner. Inner is literally cheating with Takos which can proc plushie and body block Yagoo heads.
>>27277775
Everyone can run a single weapon and pump HP to survive post 30m.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277743
>Ina
Not remotely the same. See >>27277775, Iyrs is just too stat dependent, she needs every possible level she can get her hands on unless they adjust Half-Angel to a %heal, or add a block to Hope.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277743
the only truly necessary items are horns and plushie, maybe headphones too
glasses help you get your gear faster and more reliably because more level ups means more rolls

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277829
>Everyone can run a single weapon and pump HP to survive post 30m.
In what world? Gura, Ina, and too an extent Kronii have defensive tools to rely on. Iyrs has built in heals to rely on. Bae potentially has the DPS to just burn through it. Anyone else is going to sacrifice HP or Damage and end up splatted or unable to heal through the damage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277898
Headphones are important since they negate the damage you take while still procing plushie for the 0.5s invulnerability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277938
well we are strictly discussing ina here so you're triggering plushie with takos not headphones

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277908
I've seen images of Fauna surviving 50m+ as well, Ame probably needs to run multiple weapons, but her instakill can also sustain her once you get rolling. Mori with enough haste probably can survive as well with her scythe instakill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278187
KO's don't count as kills for horns

[Anonymous No.]

Wish you can collect saplings just by hovering near it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278244
So they count for Inner but not for Mori/Ame, pretty cool game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278284
:)

[Anonymous No.]

>>27276951
Wait, they scale up?
>cries in all +10 collabs, 1234 HP, +600% Attack, +300% Haste, >100% Crt
I thought it was a kill screen so I just went ham to see how long it'd take it to crash.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278403
People struggle to kill themselves even at 400 HP with Inner because of the Takos + her slow field.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277143
>kept investing in stats for 2 hours
Good thing I stopped taking stats 2 minutes after Yagoo had started appearing.
Yagoo killed me in the 50th minute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278284
Technically no. The KO portion of AO's ability doesn't trigger horns, it's the takodachi's dying that does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278403

[Anonymous No.]

>>27278530
Yeah, I actually got to a point where I could actually see Ina again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280521
on my way to join you

[Anonymous No.]

So who is the hardest to play endless as? I just tried it with Fauna, and even at over level 120 with about 20 anvils and pretty good luck, I still died right away once Yagoo showed up. I guess going all-in on healing is useless after all when you really need invincibility

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280521
When do the anvils stop? I can't move without bumping into one and now they're spawning directly on me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280737
They don't stop. Though you can try to walk through them by holding a direction and repeatedly hitting x. Best not to get totally surrounded by them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280673
>I guess going all-in on healing is useless after all when you really need invincibility
It can work, but Fauna's Whisper becomes worthless at that point, so it's all about how fast you can get saplings. But aside from Gura and Ina, most of them take a lot of work in endless. And some like Kiara and Sana really have no way to handle 30+ at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>started with EN 1 and 2 instead of JP or at least JP+EN
Why? It's going to take ages for all the good holos to come out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280737
When they crash the came from there being too many of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280960
would continuously investing in higher stats help to counteract that though? When I did it I could actually get the game to lag less as I started taking out the yagoos faster.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280928
Nice bait.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I the only one who finds endless mode kinda cheap?
20-30 minutes are good, and the initial laugh of a wave of Yagoo attacking is great, but in the end it's just 10 more minutes of waves followed by one long barrage of the exact same thing until you're overwhelmed. Or you figure out a way to break the system and become unkillable and have to either quit or let your game crash once you get bored.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281293
its a free game on early access what do you expect?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281343
Oh don't get me wrong, I love the game as a whole. It's just that this one aspect seemed a bit underwhelming compared to the rest which seems super polished.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27280737
Wait, why wouldn't you want anvils?

[Anonymous No.]

Got a new PB for coin farming.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281560
After a certain point they stop being worth it. 500 coins for a 10% chance to raise 1 weapon another 20% is a waste when you can just keep leveling all attacks by 8% every couple levels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281034
Yeah, when I was using them all up I noticed less chug as well as I got +10 and +11 weapons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281560
it costs coins to upgrade standard weapons above level 7 or collab weapons.
the more you upgrade your weapons, the higher you might fail upgrading them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281751
>>27281736
I legit spent 5000 coins trying to upgrade elite cooking past +10 before I gave up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281804
Gomen. 9s and 10s. I have nothing at 11 either. Tentacle, Asacoco, Elite Cooking, Flattening Board 9. BL Fujoshi and Idol Concert are at 10.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281544
I just want Haachama to crawl out of the void at 30 minutes and eat me alive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281677
Weak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27281544
Perhaps when more stages are added endless mode will be like a chain of all stages that turns to Yagoo spam after you get through the rest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27282091
Impressive, very nice. Let's see Paul Allen's coin farm.

[Anonymous No.]

>got a rainbow exp right as yagoos spawned and gained like 10+ levels
>got over 500+ hp
>thought it might be enough
nope

[Anonymous No.]

Holocure Holomem Stream Checklist
>First picks Ame
>Comment on the Yagoo statue being annoying/gross
>"Chibi" *muffled laugh*
>Knightly Milk~
>Ah... Marine and Chloe like BL.
>Startled by Fubura/Fubuzilla
>Gets obvious base level EN references wrong
>"Will I by any chance be added to this game in the future?"
>Dakimakura? Oh but it's Yagoo... nobody needs that
>*happy squealing when they see anything related to Coco*
>*happy squealing when they see anything related to themselves*
>Eh? Isn't this strong? (about something that is not strong)
>run directly away from EXP in a straight line
>die sub 5 minutes
>die sub 8 minutes
>die sub 5 minutes again
>Started by Smol Ame
>More excited to pull Gacha than play the game

[Anonymous No.]

>>27283496
I think this one is too specific, what about holomems who would pick Calli, Gura, Ina or Kiara first?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27283496
don't forget
>Take multiple runs to figure out what strafing is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27283496
Don't forget
>Gets overly shocked when the use Mumei's special

[Anonymous No.]

>>27282186
Yeah when the devs add more mascot mobs and minibosses endless should be properly divorced from stage to have completely unique waves and wacky shit like multiple Fubuzillas and Yagoos that don't spawn until like 60 minutes in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27283577
I did this and felt very stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27283496
>feeling emotions is not allowed

[Anonymous No.]

>>27284638
I think the point is less about the reactions themselves and more about how every member reacts to the same things in the same ways.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27282883
You need an extra defensive layer in addition to your items and HP to survive Yagoo. Characters that don't have a good defensive passive won't make it past 40 minutes and characters that don't have some kind of psuedo-invulnerability won't make it past 50 minutes.

[Anonymous No.]

What's the best build for Bae to take advantage of her special?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27284763
I swear Bae can do it if she just had a fuckton of haste somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

>Pc barely trying
>Time still moves slower in holocure than reality
Shame, I already disabled effects and lowered resolution

[Anonymous No.]

I feel like there are a ton of mechanics the dev could add over time to add variety. Debuffs to reduce or stop healing for a time. True damage that bypasses shields. Percent damage effects. Disable items. Bullet hells. Mobs that shoot from a distance. Hazards that can only be dodged instead of destroyed. Balancing it all would basically be impossible though

[Anonymous No.]

>>27285809
That's GameMaker Studio problem

[Anonymous No.]

>>27285840
I mean they already did a pretty stellar job of making the initial roster of girls feel unique and balanced (relatively)
I think more options would give different girls with different builds a chance to shine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27273276


This is obscure but i feel like the gen banners in the gatcha section looked better in the first place rather than the new version; the larger amount of negative space made the characters 'pop out' more, so to speak, emphasizing and presenting them. Like you can add more curlicues like the border in the changed version, but the basic composition was superior.

[Anonymous No.]

Are the Takos that AO makes as fast as the enemy they were birthed from?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287165
No, they also get slowed further by Ina's AOE slow field.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27285840
This is the final hurdle all game devs must face on the path to enlightenment, and most don't make it.
Which is, games don't need to be 'balanced' as an end in of itself, they need to be fun and interesting as an end in of itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287360
Oh good I won't have to download cheat engine then if outrunning them is possible.

[Anonymous No.]

Kronii feels like cheating for stage clearing, too bad she's useless for yagoos. Need to try her on hardcore endless sometime and just stack move speed at the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287783
If you get enough haste, she can have 100% uptime on her time stop bubbles making her invulnerable.

[Anonymous No.]

I rolled 4 Baes (not in a row, that would have been pretty bad), so I may as well figure out how to use her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287783
You can get to an hour with her if you can get enough haste to have permanent bubble.

It's the only hard CC that works on Yagoo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287383
Balancing only matters for a single player game insofar as players don't get frustrated or bored. If it's too easy to get super OP that the game is boring, or too hard to play with certain characters, it'll be bad, but not every character needs to be able to survive 5 hours of yagoo to be good enough. Pre-buff Calli was a decent example of it one being frustrating because she was frustrating for beginners to play because of her deadzones, and also made her way more dependent on defensive weapons or items than other characters. Mumei is still pushing the other end of it because she basically doesn't care what items she has, as long as she has a few weapons she can get through 19-20 without moving or collabs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287783


Perceptions will probably change once more stages start getting added. The current focus on endless memes is largely because that's the limit of existing challenges in game so far.
Speaking of which, what sort of enemies you guys think would be cool to add? Especially in terms of provoking different kinds of gameplay to deal with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287918
>Balancing only matters for a single player game insofar as players don't get frustrated or bored

My sentiments exactly.
The 'OP choice that beats all other choices in any situation' is the classic talking point in these sorts of discussions, but the main thing i push back on is notions that there is anything that is necessarily wrong with different options having different viability in common use-cases, in the first place; rather, that is more or less exactly what you want. A game that is 'perfectly balanced' is also one where none of your choices are meaningful.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27288336
other talents as enemies

[Anonymous No.]

>>27288336
I was thinking earlier that Haatons should be immune to / healed by Spider Cooking if they get added, and while that's pretty specific on its own it makes me wonder how various enemies that are immune to specific types of damage would work. Immunities to poison, fire, pierce, light, homoeroticism, etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27288336
SSRB suicide bombers, dangerous, but manipulatable to blow up other enemies.
Shuba duck boss. When it spins in the dance, you have to run around it to avoid a rotating beam.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27283496
Accurate. Especially this for the jps
>Gets obvious base level EN references wrong
It's incredible how little they know about EN after all this. They all had no clue most of the time, except Polka

[Anonymous No.]

>9k gold from a run
>Only need 3 more ranks of Ina and Calli each and I'm done
>Gura Gura Gura Ina Ame Gura Kiara Gura Gura
Go away dumb shark, you've had enough.

I told myself a week ago I wasn't going to grind much, just enough to have a bit on hand to unlock everyone from the next gens when they're added without needing more grinding. If there wasn't such a relatively low cap on them I'd probably not have bothered either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27288336
I liked that fubuzilla had a ranged attack and smol Ame couldn't be hit while in the air. It was a nice change of pace compared to contact damage in large numbers. More stuff like that would keep me entertained, just breaks up the monotony a bit.
Might be hell if several spawned at once though. Not sure how I'd feel about a group of laser firing enemies turning the screen into a constantly moving laser grid of death.

[Anonymous No.]

Okay, so we talk about balance and character design a lot, but an important thing to remember is that the characters don't all need to be balanced against each other as long as all of them are giving a fun cohesive play experience. I'm going to run through all the Myth girls and what I think their intended playstyle is, and talk about what in their kit, if anything is contradicting the rest of their abilities just because I'm bored and think about shit like this all the time anyway.

>Ame
First of all, she's clearly meant to be the most basic character, that's why she's the default character your cursor starts on and it's why she has the skills that are literally just "damage up", "crit rate up" and "get a companion".
She functions perfectly in the capacity as the basic tutorial character that scales well with basically any normal playstyle for basically all modes. Even her special being both a slow all enemies for use as a panic button and a massive attack speed steroid for deleting scary waves or strong enemies fills every intuitive roll that a player would think to use a special in under most circumstances.
She doesn't need any changes at all because she's not supposed to be the best character at anything, she's supposed to be simple and reliable, and she is.

>Gura
Gura is super obviously supposed to be the character that teaches you taking damage isn't the end of the world if you're built to do it. An introduction to the concept of tank characters, the only problem here is that dodges are not a "level 1" tank mechanic. Irys is better as an introductory tank than Gura which shows in which one of them is better at it.
That said her entire kit is built and driven around "stack em up and mow em down" braindead recklessness. It's perfect and I wouldn't change anything about it, it's just unfortunate that evasion is the most obvious way to make Gura a tank thematically.

>Ina
Ina is a more technical character than the others, the actual design of her kit is built around amassing a cult and having it follow you to maintain a big damage boost. Having a means to "cash in" your damage boost for healing by touching the takos is also good. It introduces the player to the concept they use a lot in these reverse bullet hells of "clustering" enemies into a big pile to kill them more efficiently. Which is also what her special is for.
The problems with Ina are mechanical stuff that's super unintuitive. I think Tako probably need to give xp back when touched so she's not crippled on her leveling, but they shouldn't count as kills, and they shouldn't proc effects for contacting enemies. The latter actively feels like a bug.

>Kiara
Kiara is the only one of the Myth characters that is actually conflicted in her design. She's trying to be two characters, one centered on movement, and another centered on perfect play. It's a fairly easy fix to turn her into one or the other, but her being a hybrid as one of the five starting characters doesn't feel right.
I think she's intended to be the movement character due to the fact two of her three skills are related to movement, and the shield was just the solution Kay came up with for allowing her to occasionally run through enemies to maintain stacks of dancer. There's a couple better solutions though, make it clear that it's supposed to be used more often, rather than trying to preserve it, make it so that it's cooldown based instead of a reward for not taking damage, make it so you're actively encouraged to charge through enemy lines with it because it deals damage or something, anything to emphasize the theme of "constant movement" over avoiding damage.
Her ultimate is also lazily designed, it's very pretty but it's just a damage nuke with a lingering aura, when she's not a character that needs a damage nuke based on her intended playstyle. I think Kiara perhaps more than anyone else has been beaten up by future content. Her potential revive mechanic probably being cannibalized for Ollie.
Finally the most obvious thing is that dancer just sucks to play, it's the most punishing skill in the game by a massive margin, and it should definitely fall off incrementally.

>Calli
Calli as she is post rework is fine. Initially she was a character that seemed almost designed to introduce the concept of deadzones, but the reward for playing her well was just not worthwhile. Now post rework she serves as the character that teaches you to actively run down enemies, as she should because of her theme.
All of her kit rewards you for staying close to enemies and actively trying to kill them for benefits, always making sure to keep enemies in the range of her weapons, with an ultimate that's not useful as a panic button to encourage you to use it to quickly wipe out bosses and farm waves.
She's a less interesting character post rework, but she's also a much better starting roster character, and a lot more fun.
I think this is absolutely one of the two directions her you could have taken her.

[Anonymous No.]

Hi. Late to the party and addicted to the game. I've 2 questions hope someone here can help out.

1. I've seen the holos played where they can walk in one direction while firing their primary attack in another direction. What is the control for that?
2. How to update the game while keeping my progress?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289731
>I think Tako probably need to give xp back when touched so she's not crippled on her leveling,
I think at one point they did, but as of the latest update AO tako conversions drop exp as if the enemies were killed normally and the takos drop exp when absorbed. I don't know if this means she's getting double experience or not, probably a bug in its own right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287383
I find fauna & Kiara's gameplay fun and an interesting deviation from the standard characters, but it's frustrating that the can almost never make it past 25

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289972
fauna can easily make it several minutes into yagoo

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289972
Fauna has made it to 50m+.

[Anonymous No.]

is it possible to make it to yagoo without any collabs?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289731
I disagree with almost everything you said, but especially the part about Ame being the most basic vanilla characters. That's probably Ina, considering she has pretty much every pillar of a VS character covered in her kit (crowd control, damage, sustain abilities). Ame is very much a glass cannon, and I would not suggest anyone start out with her because of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289731
Let me know if you want a rant like this about cope, that was fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290078
It wouldn't even be hard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289881
>1
It's called "strafe".
Press and hold "z" while moving, there's an arrow near your character and it's locked while you're holding the "z" button.
>2
Just replace the files in your game folder.
The savegame file is in another folder.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290085
That's only from the perspective of someone who's played a bunch of VS. Basic and well rounded are not the same thing. Anyone who's ever played a video game understand Ame immediately. That's what I mean by "introductory character".

Glass cannon does not mean a character has no in built defensive tools, that's just a regular cannon. A glass cannon is innately more fragile than other characters in exchange for radically elevated damage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289881
1. hold z
2. your game is saved in a different folder so you can redownload the game and paste over the old game files

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289881
like most games, your save data is in a different place form the actual game files

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289881
1- Whenever you play a game and don't know the controls, open the options and look for keybinds, button configurations, etc, and you'll usually see them all there.
2- This game's save files are separate from the installation, you just install the new version anywhere, play that, and it will access the same old save file.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290148
>>27290203
>>27290207
Thanks a lot. Now I can actually play Irys without being dead each time exclamation marks wave came in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27277583
Kiara is the most mechanically intensive character in the game

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290380
She does also have 90 base HP though, which is even further evidence that her shield is a stupid skill.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290435
because at some points, you 100% have to run through enemy waves
you have to stack suitability with Kiara just to get through staged mode

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290523
sustainability*

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290046
Define easily.
Full upgrades, max pulls, and 4 collabs by 25 min?
Because right now my +4 fauna gets rushed pre 30 pretty hard

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290592
i dont have max pulls or full upgrades and i literally just finished a 35-40m or so run with fauna. getting that far is just about survivability and fauna is really good at that. which is good because her damage is shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290198
If the general expectation is for all the other characters to have defensive tools, then not having them is being relatively vulnerable.
If the general expectation is for characters to be able to attack 360, being one of few horizontal limited attackers makes the character less introductory.

[Anonymous No.]

What is the best collab combo

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290796
I think it's Axe + Book

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290877
I mean multiple collabs

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290796
Elite cooking? It can kill Ame in ~ 10 seconds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287895
How much Haste do I need to have her perma stop bubbles?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27287896
5 Baes now, still can't get more than 10 minutes into Endless with her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27289731
I decided to test >>27289946 and I got this run. Glasses were relatively early, but I got to level 66 with about a thousand _less_ kills than what Mumei has when she hits 63/64 even with early glasses. I also spent a decent chunk of the early game just fucking around so AO could kill things without any interference. Some enemies even despawned because I wasn't killing them.

I can confirm at least levels 1 and 2 of AO will drop exp on takoification AND on collecting the tako. I can't confirm it as well for level 3 since there's too much going on by that point for me to see individual exp chits, but the extra experience over the course of the run seems to speak for itself. Ina does seem to be double dipping on tako experience. Ina is even more broken than she was believed to be.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27291236
That is /absolutely/ a bug. No wonder Ina is top tier, she's more bugged than Mumei.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27271141
Testing a few runs I can confirm that the Yagoos can still kill you with at least 500 HP if your DPS is low enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27291302
Ina's real skill is to do eldritch fuckery to the game itself apparently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27285809
It's single threaded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27291236
Well first they die to the ability and then they offer their souls to Ina. It's thematic. Obviously broken, but thematic. My oshi deserves the best so I'm cool with it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27290796
Flattening board does the most damage and still kills bosses very quickly. Dragonfire kills bosses faster and stunlocks them, but is directional so you can still get overwhelmed if you're not moving a lot, and moving a lot decreases your kills and gold gain. Elite cooking is better than micomet because it gives more reliable coverage of the screen to prevent you from being overwhelmed, plus micomet is incompatible with BL fujoshi so it's better to aim for those two than micomet alone. Breathe in asacoco isn't terrible but it's incompatible with both flattening board and dragonfire which are both much better.

[Anonymous No.]

adding to this>>27291341

I'm thinking of experimenting with a possible method of forcing a death in long-term Ina cheese runs.

I did a few practice runs and confirmed that it's possible to reach the Yagoos without any collabs, with at least 8 anvils readily available, and with 500HP while still holding back from going higher.

I've confirmed that at this level you'll still die a few minutes into the Yagoo rush. My idea is to potentially try and push this further by upgrading maxed-out base weapons via anvils as much as possible, then when I want to die collabing them to see if it lowers the DPS enough.

I'm skeptical on whether this will work though, as it seems less a matter of DPS control and more a matter of finding the right sweet spot of HP that can be drained.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27291679
Not collabing also had the advantage of letting me reach max levels on all my gear early on so that I could start building up stat boosts sooner, since again DPS doesn't seem to matter as much as survivability.

[Anonymous No.]

i dont understand how to become invincible with ina. i get headphones, pushie and horns on ina but she still dies to yagoo

[Anonymous No.]

Got 100% crit chance with Bae and still died to yagoo almost instantly. I blame poor choice of weapons, but i just don't know what to chose. Do we have some data on what is the absolute best dps aoe weapons in the game? I don't care about knockback or utility, just pure aoe damage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27291679
Aside from the DPS matters, beam and asacoco both have some knockback, and then when you combine them, you can point dragonfire away from most of the yagoos, right?

[Anonymous No.]

Just one more run

[Anonymous No.]

>>27292747
Then you only need 231,000 to max out the gacha for every girl currently in the game with literally perfect RNG.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27292671
Elite Cooking undisputedly, massive AoE with stacking hitzones
BL Fujoshi second, especially with Haste or Friend stacking additional circles

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293069
Cutting Board's base damage is high enough to put it in contention with Elite Cooking, it's not as no contest as you're implying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293130
Cutting Board doesn't nearly have the AoE EC has, EC and Fujo BL both trivializes 19 minute mark by themselves while mooks can still slip through cutting board and the other collabs

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293069
>BL Fujoshi
Wait, it works? Fucking hell, i skipped it because i was thinking haste doesn't do anything.
What else, cutting board, like this anon said? >>27293130
Ok, it's 3. What about light beam or idol concert? Or it's better to just pick glowstick and idol song to start getting haste and crit upgrades faster?
In terms of items i picked milk, plushie, horns, full meal, headphones and glasses. Not sure if there are better combination, maybe credit card instead of milk, but i'm not sure how good credit card really is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293311
>19 minute mark like it matters.

BL gets totally over run by the boss rush at 25. Any collab can handle 19 minutes unless you're a monkey.

Flattening board can solo the boss rush.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27292550
You need more HP. Enough that she'll be able to heal before they get her low enough.

>>27292701
Yes, that's right. I was also using bombs and cutting board (the latter of which alone is enough to let Ina just stand still for most of the first 20 minutes.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293569
Haste definitely does stuff

[Anonymous No.]

>Kronii permanent bubbles
I failed, maybe I took too many weapons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293746
>Permanent bubbles
elaborate

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293053
I think I'll stop when my inner is at +10

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293746
You need to prioritize HP. It's something like 250-300% haste to overlap bubbles so you need to be able to survive the Yagoo swarm during the second in between bubbles while you're farming. I've gotten to 50 minutes and I think I'll be able to push it to an infinite run eventually.

>>27293937
Time Bubble CD scales with your haste so it's possible to get a 100% uptime on it which will make you invincible but actually getting there is pretty tough.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I supposed to like the gacha element? its just shit and i hope it gets neutered in the paid version or else Im just gonna use CE to G20 whatever characters I want

[Anonymous No.]

>>27293746
>>27294324
>250-300%
Shit, I only got 110%.
My DPS is too low, I barely kill those waves after 25 minutes.
What weapons/collabs should I take?
Are my passive items setup good?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294461
>paid version
It's free, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294497
People here were saying the full version would cost money but i guess its par for the course of /vt/ards spreading misinfo

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294549
Anyone who has said that in these threads has either been corrected or called an idiot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294464
Your passive items are optimal. My best attempt used Elite Cooking which is easily the best collab for Kronii. I'm going to try doing a double collab run with Flattening Board and see if the extra DPS helps at all.

You want to aim for 500+ HP going into the first Yagoo wave and take HP literally whenever you see it. Your stat priority is HP > Haste > ATK > Crit to 100%

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294549
I don't remember ever seeing anyone say that. Are you certain that you didn't just have a stroke/are in fact retarded? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt but I'm skeptical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294461
The gacha is like the golden eggs in VS. It's a money sink for autists and the game isn't going to be balanced around it. Unlike the eggs it's capped at +20, so it's definitely feasible to max out your oshi and not completely ruin the game like the eggs do. Still kinda hope the dev puts in a toggle but it's not critical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294667
I took Spider Cooking and BL Book because I want their knockback.
I'll try again with Elite Cooking.
Should I take Ina's weapon setup (Cooking, Concert, Flat) for Kronii's run?

[Anonymous No.]

managed to 30 min with ina, how do I suicide?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27292671
Imo flattening board is the best collab on most existing characters. Then elite cooking, then whatever you can conveniently fill in after. Though it can also be situationally useful to leave spider cooking and or BL uncollabed to keep the knockback functions.

>>27289731
>I think Tako probably need to give xp back when touched so she's not crippled on her leveling, but they shouldn't count as kills
Vehemently disagree. Honestly i hate people who even think like this. At the end of the day AO is simply another way of killing enemies, with some unique twists on top. Either the initial conversion or the contact needs kill effects, like XP drops or horn procs, just like anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294896
>Honestly i hate people who even think like this. At the end of the day AO is simply another way of killing enemies, with some unique twists on top. Either the initial conversion or the contact needs kill effects, like XP drops or horn procs, just like anything else.
You completely misread what he posted. He assumed that AO completely eliminated the experience, so you're arguing for the same thing he is.

But it turns out AO currently doubles experience >>27291236

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294771
I've just been doing 1 collab for my Kronii runs and need to do more testing to actually figure out what works best so your guess is as good as mine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295006
How long have you survived Yagoo with your Kronii runs?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295003
He said 'they shouldn't count as kills', when there are important mechanical interactions that specifically key off of 'killing' an enemy unit, like the aforementioned Nurse's Horns. That's the part you ignored that im honed in on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294549
I don't mind paying if it's good (the completed product of course). The game in it current state is still baby tier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295213
He's talking about absorbing the takos and how it shouldn't count as being hit or as kills. Not that AO as a whole shouldn't count for anything. You said "Either the initial conversion or the contact" which means you misunderstood it since he was just talking about the contact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295197
50 minutes

[Anonymous No.]

Based on logs from the code, the game probably splits things into categories. I see it logging "new weapon" and "old weapon" a lot, which probably means it randomizes between buckets first before picking what it should roll. It is probably better for gold farming to have empty weapon slots rather than filling all the slots, even though filling all the slots means a smaller overall pool of items.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295282
>I think Tako probably need to give xp back when touched so she's not crippled on her leveling
Implying that the initial AO conversion itself is not being thought of as a 'kill'. And so if the contact is not counted as a 'kill' either, than neither contact nor kill is being thought of as a kill.

Maybe this is not what you/he meant, but that is the message that was conveyed in reality through the words that were used.

[Anonymous No.]

Spent some time to research to Ame, Ina, Kiara & Mori extensively.
Gotten Mumei in Gacha. Tried her for the first time.
What is this normal attack? Why does it have some many piercing hits at lv1? Mumei is an upgraded Ame, I see.
Wait a minute. The feathers aren’t fired in straight line, they’re fired in a mini cone radius. Just like Ame’s maxed Pistol Shot’s spread effect. This isn’t fair at all. It’s just a lv1 normal attack. Then I upgraded the feathers to max lv. What does it mean by homing?

I assume it's something like Ame’s ricochet shot. But instead of ricocheting off the enemy, the projectile performs homing function. But the result shocked me, the projectiles homed straight into targets. No aiming needed. And it is super long range. Fucking slaughtered everything on the screen. Furthermore, all of Mumei’s skills are super~~~~ strong. Who the fuck came up with this balancing decision? Baffling.

Mumei is not simply OP, she is a cheat code character. Also a fucking insult to other characters.
If you try Ame after Mumei, you feel like an absolute idiot for strafing/aiming/lining up the enemy even once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295621
There is a reason why the main gameplay tip with Mumei is to rush her starting weapon

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BITt-obyyJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BITt-obyyJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BITt-obyyJ4
Reine

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295621


Good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295721
It's obvious the creator is a mumei fan since she's still the most OP and she is just basically being a superior version of Ame. I mean aside from her ult, Mumei's skills and weapons are all just superior versions of Ame.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295881
Also the "nerf" on the recent balance also came with a "buff" which was weird.

[Anonymous No.]

Meta aside, which character do you think has the most interesting playstyle? Personally I love Fauna's concept of turning heals into attacks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295485
Yes, that is what he believe. He believed that AO did not give experience at any point, but that takos being absorbed shouldn't proc on kill/on hit effects. The english is not confusing, I am not sure why you're struggling so much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294686
calm down lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295945
so far IRyS, it's the most unique to build for right now with the "meta" only being a single collab

[Anonymous No.]

i have yet to unlock idol song, cutting board, plushie and maybe more. im not fucking playing any other holos other than kiara, is there no way to get any of these?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296008
>thinks I can't question an anon's retardation calmly
For what reason?

[Anonymous No.]

I don't have the hardest data to back it up but I think if you skip a box animation you get less gold. There's a lot of variance though, even single boxes can get over 300, but I've never seen a single reward box give nearly that much after skipping its animation. Given that there have been bugs with the counter in the past - in the first version - this doesn't surprise me as much as it should.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296097
You only need to get past 10 minutes with Irys, Bae, Ina, and Calli.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295727
starting !

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294771
>Kronii perma bubbles round 2
Lower HP and Attack but higher Crit due to RNG.
Couldn't see where Kronii's bubble is when Yagoo appeared because of Elite Cooking so I died a few seconds earlier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296097
Edit your savegame.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295995
I am not sure why you're struggling so much. XP drops is an example of something that happens when you kill an enemy, along with several other mechanics, like saplings, horns, sharkbite, et cetera et cetera. If you have one thing happening but not the other, then you've got an unprincipled exception. I'm not sure how much more simply i can explain this for you.
If you believe it doesn't give XP at any point, then either you're thinking it didn't count as 'killing' the enemies, or thinking that should be removed if it does count as killing them. There would be no point in specifying 'but it should still drop XP' unless you were speaking in terms as if 'this does not/should not count as killing, but-'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296225
random thought but cutting board on characters like kronii bothers me. it's weird that flat chested characters get a bonus to a weapon and no one else does. will he add a weapon that gets a bonus if the character has bigger tits? and even then is it fair if medium-sized characters get that bonus too? do we have to track bust sizes to weapons in the future? i sure hope so

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296180
im gonna farm so i can spam the gacha on gamers and gen 0 - surely they'll be released soon...

[Anonymous No.]

so how much holocoins do past-25ers get in endless?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296287
There's Noel's Milk, so big-breasted girl might have a bonus in future update.
This game is still a demo, things might change in the future.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27282091
How in the fuck?

[Anonymous No.]

I'm just waiting for the next update to add controller support, honestly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296344
If you don't survive Yagoo, not much.
If you survive Yagoo, you get lots of coins (100k or more) or nothing when your game crashes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296286
>I am not sure why you're struggling so much.
Probably because I am trying to communicate with someone who can't read through text.

>'this does not/should not count as killing, but-'.
He believed AO did not give exp at either end, either the killing or the absorbing, hence the "so she's not crippled on her leveling." It's also true that touching a tako counts as being hit. He said, in plain english, that absorbing a tako should give the exp back (that he believed AO erased, which was a mistaken belief) but that absorbing a tako should not count as a kill or being hit (and it definitely does count as being hit). This isn't rocket science, it's plain what he said and what he believed when he said it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296287
>will he add a weapon that gets a bonus if the character has bigger tits?
Quite possibly.

> is it fair if medium-sized characters get that bonus too?
Maybe make items of this sort have a rough continuum, where median characters can use them with neither an extra bonus or penalty.

>do we have to track bust sizes to weapons in the future? i sure hope so

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295945
I like Fauna because her kit incentivizes you to run around collecting stuff. She's the most active and unique character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296443
>He believed AO did not give exp at either end, either the killing or the absorbing, hence the "so she's not crippled on her leveling."
Which is not in dispute
>It's also true that touching a tako counts as being hit.
Which is not in dispute
>He said, in plain english, that absorbing a tako should give the exp back (that he believed AO erased, which was a mistaken belief) but that absorbing a tako should not count as a kill
Which is absolutely in dispute

It is a kill, so it gives XP and procs kill effects. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296572
Oh so you just want AO to count as double kills. Yeah, no, that's even dumber. The exp should be dropped at one end or the other, but only one kill should happen. You don't get to kill an enemy twice.

There's also no fundamental reason why a tako couldn't hold onto the experience after the kill. The kill could happen at conversion time and proc normal kill effects, but the tako could hold onto the experience until absorbed. Show me which law it's breaking for this to be illegal? If a future character causes extra experience through some mechanism or another, do they necessarily require extra kills out of thin air to justify that exp?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295945
i like fauna too, but i think the whisper skill a little bit underwhelming.

they can add another ability to whisper, "Saplings on X radius will come toward Fauna because they hear Fauna whisper"

and with that knight's milk also has more important value

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296684
>Oh so you just want AO to count as double kills
This was never said or even implied except on your end. I said either the conversion or the contact should be the trigger for kill effects, of which dropping XP is a subset. Simple as. Either you have the memory of a goldfish, lack reading comprehension, or are simply being purposefully disingenuous to argue in bad faith at this point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296572
>Which is absolutely in dispute
Wrong, what he said is in clear english and is not in dispute. Reminder the quote was:
>I think Tako probably need to give xp back when touched so she's not crippled on her leveling, but they shouldn't count as kills, and they shouldn't proc effects for contacting enemies. The latter actively feels like a bug.
It's not hard to parse. What you think constitutes a kill might be in dispute, but what he said is clear enough.

[Anonymous No.]

cont
>>27296684
>The kill could happen at conversion time and proc normal kill effects, but the tako could hold onto the experience until absorbed

I don't necessarily see any problem with this, and it might even be more convenient that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296815
Either converting a tako is a kill, or absorbing a tako is a kill. This is independent of which event drops experience. It's perfectly valid to proc kill effects on conversion and then drop exp on the tako absorption. I'm sorry your religion considers that a sin, and you're free to think what you want, but converting people on 4chan isn't going to work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296907
Besides problems with coding, that is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295907
What was the mentioned "nerf" or/and "buff"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296299
>Saved money for future gen gacha
>Dev: sorry major update, old save not compatible

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296426
The issue is you either die within the first few minutes of yagoo or can't die at all and can't get any coins

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296911
I did a small test.
Converting enemies into takos doesn't increase your kill count.
But if you touch a tako, it increases your kill count and drops an XP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297049
>can't die at all and can't get any coins
Kill your character using CheatEngine and keep the coins.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296742
Being able to leave saplings to gather up is fun in its own way for when you want to launch a huge guardian spam.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296911
There was never any argument it should count twice, nor any argument the effects can't be split apart (assuming there would be a point), these are both ideas you made up in your head.
The argument always and already was against the idea of it not counting as a kill at all. If that was not what you meant, then the matter is settled.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296957
Minor nerf to level 7 feather damage. History was changed to increase by 1% every 50 kills instead of 100, so levels 2 and 3 of History actually have an impact in stage mode, since it's impossible to get the 10k kills necessary to max out level 1 history in stage mode. It's hard to tell how much it actually made a difference because Mumei is super bugged right now and sometimes spikes up to over +1000% attack for no consistent reason.

>>27297035
He's said he plans on releasing an auto-updater and keeping compatibility between saves. If he actually does accidentally break it at some point then I'd just cheat to restore my state, but the save file is just some json run through base64 right now so it'd be kind of hard to break compatibility.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297112
>nor any argument the effects can't be split apart (assuming there would be a point), these are both ideas you made up in your head.
>It is a kill, so it gives XP and procs kill effects. Simple as.

>The argument always and already was against the idea of it not counting as a kill at all.
Sorry I'm pretty out of shape. If you keep moving the goalposts I'm not going to be able to keep up. It started as an argument over whether absorbing a tako, specifically, should count as a kill. Now you've completely changed tack to whether ancient ones, as a whole, should count as a kill at any point in the process. If you honestly think that then you need to seriously work on your communication skills.

[Anonymous No.]

Is there an easy way to find out which Holos have played Holocure?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297131
History is actually bugged to give 1% every 25 kills and has no cap right now. Having Sake or Piman active also buffs it to a stupid degree for unknown reasons since they shouldn't interact.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27296287
>is it fair if medium-sized characters get that bonus too?
Fauna would think so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297112
Oh and this gem of yours:
>XP drops is an example of something that happens when you kill an enemy, along with several other mechanics, like saplings, horns, sharkbite, et cetera et cetera. If you have one thing happening but not the other, then you've got an unprincipled exception.
You were actually really attached to the idea that they cannot and must not be split apart. I guess you forgot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27295945
Fauna's playstyle is very distinct, so it's a good one. Sana's matches her character really well. She just floats around and destroys everything around her with no cares and zero danger. Her having extra synergy with Noel milk is just icing on the cake. Lastly, I'd probably say Irys just because it isn't super obvious how to build her at first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27294896
No other instant kill effects (Ame and Calli's) count as kills, so either they all should or AO shouldn't either. It needs to be internally consistent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297271
I don't think it's sake, or at least not just the sake, I usually have sake and it doesn't seem to consistently cause it. I think it's something with bosses. I've seen it spike to +1200% when bosses spawned and disappear after, but on a similar run (also with sake) I didn't see it at the same bosses.

[Anonymous No.]

Tankrys too strong, copy build from an anon last thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297264
https://holodex.net/search?q=type,value,text%0Atopic,HoloCure,HoloCure

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297363
Their instakills are definitely kills. Ina's is a conversion to allies; the process by which they disappear and she gets health from them when they touch her isn't as certain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297650
They aren't. They don't proc horns. That's why Ame and Calli can't do Yagoo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297499
Million thanks

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297214
>nor any argument the effects can't be split apart (assuming there would be a point), these are both ideas you made up in your head.
>It is a kill, so it gives XP and procs kill effects. Simple as.
Yes, there is no contradiction between A and B. Since i am not autistic i would not consider something like a time delay to mean the effects are not happening at all; i would consider an effect not happening at all to mean an effect not happening at all. I can understand how you as an autistic person might think that though.
Not i exactly care whether it happens all at once or when one thing happens on conversion and another thing happens on contact, but i also understand as an autistic person you can get hung up and have myopic tunnel vision on minutae like this.
If you got the wrong impression from those lines, then allow this elucidation to clarify my feelings - such as they are - on that particular matter.

>It started as an argument over whether absorbing a tako, specifically,
You are either stupid or a dirty rat fink liar. Your mother must be ashamed of you.
>>27294896
>Either the initial conversion or the contact needs kill effects, like XP drops or horn procs, just like anything else.
So you know, clearly and obviously, exactly what was always being said from the very beginning. That ancient ones, as a whole, should count as a kill at any point in the process.
So you know, since we both see to agree with each other in principle, and there is no reason to continue except for your pointless attempts at mudslinging, i will consider this fruitful discussion concluded. Take care friend.

[Anonymous No.]

Items I'd buff:

>Energy drink
High price to pay for a small bonus. It costs HP, 5 levels, and an item slot for a SPD boost that could be replaced by a few levels of stat boosts. Basically worthless. I'd at least make it 3 levels instead, and possibly a smaller SPD bonus but progressively drop the HP cost. The only way this makes sense is if a future character is too slow to outrun enemies, which just sounds like a really bad time.

>Gorilla hands
I'm conflicted on this, because it's actually a good item on some characters in stage mode already. But it's entirely useless in endless mode and completely non-viable for some characters. Ame, Kiara, Calli, Bae, Kronii, and IRyS basically can't use it, and Mumei can get past the point where it would be efficient, and I see that will probably be a common trend going forward. Unlike injection asacoco, which anyone with nurse horns can run, many/most characters will simply never, ever run this.

>Idol costume
Again, too much investment (5 levels) for a small benefit. 3 levels seems fair.

Nerfs:

>Full meal
Gonna be honest, +100% healing for one level is a bit much, but 3 levels would also feel like too much since it has no effect on its own. I'd probably want it to be 2 levels (+50, +100) but I don't know if the dev would consider that.

>Nurse horns
>Milk
These two just stand out as the best items, but they only cost 3 levels. Compare energy drink or idol costume to Milk, and you realize that this one is just better and cheaper. If anything were to be bumped to 5 levels (for no greater max benefit), it'd be these two.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297363
I would make it so they all should.

[Anonymous No.]

Is Miko the most clumsy Holocure player?
Also who is the best natural player? (without long game hours)

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297807
Is there a place where players can give their input or suggestion to game dev?
(I know devs are bombarded by endless inputs from the community.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297807
Can can't nerf horns without gutting it, even level 1 horns would still be the best item in the game. It could be a 1% heal with 5 levels and it would still be the best item in the game no contest, that effect in a bullet heaven is just too strong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297732
>>>It started as an argument over whether absorbing a tako, specifically,
>You are either stupid or a dirty rat fink liar. Your mother must be ashamed of you.
I get that you're committed to this now, because it's less shameful than to admit you're borderline illiterate, but that is what you responded to in the very first post, in plain english. You're probably used to confusing people over what they said in regular conversations, seems like something you'd do a lot - get people to question what they even said or were arguing in the first place, until they stop arguing so you can "win" - but on 4chan the text is right there for anyone to look at.
>I think Tako probably need to give xp back when touched
Is not an ambiguous sentence, he's not talking about AO as a whole. Which is why I said in >>27295003 that you were arguing for the same thing he was. You misread it as him saying that "AO" shouldn't count as a kill when he said that "absorbing the tako" shouldn't count as a kill. That's been consistent the whole time. Then you went full retard over how kills cannot be split.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297933
You could give it a cooldown

[Anonymous No.]

>want to test possible hour+ builds for irys
>consistently getting the bug where you die as soon as you level up all day
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.]

Nooblet here. How to unlock items? Do I have to reach a certain score or clear the stage a number of times?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297933
I don't expect nurse horns to ever not be a good item, but at a cost of 5 levels to max instead of 3 it'd be a relative nerf. As it is they're better and cheaper than weaker things.

Also I completely forgot uber sheep since it's the one item I never pick. I'd buff that to cost 3 levels instead of 5 as well. Same minimum and maximum, just drop levels 2 and 4. Still better than energy drink, but uber sheep should not be more expensive than horns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298020
Read the OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298042
I think it's safe to assume Uber Sheep isn't as bad as it is for the current cast.

If there's ever a character that gets like... a stacking 30 second buff when they pick up food that's instantly the best item in the game for that character, and the level ups reducing the cooldown is the most powerful possible effect for that specific situation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298059
Oh thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298100
To this point I kinda wish more of the items were "only good on X" like uber sheep and gorilla paw. That's one of the reasons I'm so excited for an expanded cast, as we get weirder and weirder mems a lot of the stuff we bitch about will probably get addressed without any buffs or nerfs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298204
>>27298100
>Energy drink
>Character who literally can't move at all before they get a speed increase.
>Who is it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298311
Has to be Marine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298100
I don't think items should be balanced around what characters they're best for. I do think a 3 level uber sheep is still going to be worse than a 5 level nurse horns, but as it is I think they're backwards. If one character gets a lot more use out of uber sheep, great, they'd take it even at 5 levels, but for your "typical" character uber sheep is worse and more expensive.

Gorilla's paw, by comparison, is one item where it'll be extremely damaging to a large amount of the cast, 5/11 of the current cast will mechanically break on some level with it and it's not efficient for Mumei. It's not just a matter of it dropping damage, but some skills are completely based on crits to proc something. It might be the case that a lot more items will be like gorilla's paw in the future, but for now it stands out as being the only item that is completely unusable on a subset of characters. That's why I'm more conflicted on it.

Unlike energy drink which is a horrible item for any character, and will probably remain that way unless someone is stuck with a really low base movement speed and is forced into picking it. Which is something I want even less; I don't want any character to be "bad unless you get X item" or any item to be as mandatory as duplicator/empty tome in VS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298311
Marine

[Anonymous No.]

Who wrote this thing in OP?
https://rentry.org/vehan

Is it by one person or several people?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27297964
>but on 4chan the text is right there for anyone to look at.
My sentiments exactly.

>whether ancient ones, as a whole, should count as a kill at any point in the process.
The terms which were firmly established in the very first post.
>>27294896
>Either the initial conversion or the contact needs kill effects, like XP drops or horn procs, just like anything else.
And which were affirmed by yourself as well several times subsequently, so there is really no reason for you to persist with this pointless endeavor except perhaps you feel slighted for some reason and your monkey brain is telling you to strike back somehow, any way that can be rationalized.

>Then you went full retard over how kills cannot be split.
A schizophrenic idea that exists nowhere except in your head. It seems like at this point you are arguing with a simulacrum of me that only you can hear, not the words of the actual me out here in reality. There is no post anywhere where i said such a thing, and when you questioned if i meant such a thing in your interpretation of the words, i immediately pointed out that no, there was never any meaning for a such a thing. Will you accept the words that are written by the me out here in reality, or continue arguing with the simulacrum of me in your head?

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298344
To be honest it seems like you have some pretty unrealistic expectations. I understand where you're coming from, but a game where everything is perfectly balanced is literally by definition not a game.

If you can't ever get forced into taking sub optimal items you get what we have now with endless mode where every run is the same, and that's the world I want the least of all. One where the game is boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298389
>>>whether ancient ones, as a whole, should count as a kill at any point in the process.
>The terms which were firmly established in the very first post.
You argued against a misunderstanding of his post and when I pointed it out you just kept doubling down.

>Will you accept the words that are written by the me out here in reality
Did you write them on paper? That won't really help me, I can't see what you're writing. I'm not there with you, I can't see over your shoulder; I can only read what you post on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

Fauna is incredibly fun to play. That is all, thank you for listening.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298492
How fucking dare you, she's bad and not able to do endless Yagoo, kill your entire family and post time stamps written in their blood then kill yourself for your impudence. How dare you enjoy a free fan game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298420
>a game where everything is perfectly balanced is literally by definition not a game.
Diff anon here. A perfectly balanced game is a game.
Every choice/build in the game gives more less equal value, while providing different function and experience.
It is insanely hard to devise such game design, and not guaranteed fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298598
That's what I get for using the word literally incorrectly, fair enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298420
I think you have unrealistic expectations yourself for what a couple of nerfs and buffs could do. Nurse horns is always going to be better than uber sheep. But right now the costs are backwards. Uber sheep is worse and more expensive. It's fine if it's worse, but making it less expensive is a really simple change. Energy drink, as is, is a terrible pick for anyone and will probably remain a terrible pick for everyone going forward without changes. I don't agree that some items need to be just plain bad or the game will be boring. I also think it's fine to buff bad items and nerf good items even if they still remain worse or better than the other options.

>If you can't ever get forced into taking sub optimal items you get what we have now with endless mode where every run is the same
You can't be forced into an individual terrible item as the game is now. No matter how the game throws the energy drink at me, I can't be forced to pick it. I might be forced into a sub-optimal item, but not until 3 more (2 more counting asacoco/gorilla for some characters) items are as bad as energy drink will I ever need to pick it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298474
'Doubling down' *on what*? Everything you seem to *think* i have been 'arguing for' has been fantasies you keep coming up with. I keep repeatedly telling you, directly and in no uncertain terms, what the point i was arguing for now and from the start was, and you keep *refusing to accept it*, even when *you yourself have agreed with it*.
You honestly seem mind fucked right now anon. You keep trying to find excuses to continue to argue. Maybe take a break from /vt/, watch some clips of your oshi or something to calm down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298848
You argued against a post you agreed with, when I pointed that out you lost your shit and still haven't found it.

[Anonymous No.]

I thought this place was >our hugbox and now you faggots are fighting, I'll never forgive you anon!

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298892
Well we had a good run. All sane people have stopped playing until the next update to avoid burnout so it's only autists left.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27298914
I resemble that remark.

[Anonymous No.]

huh

[Anonymous No.]

>>27299059
As far as I can tell from logging output, the game weights between different buckets (stats, consumables, new items, old items, new weapons, old weapons, skills, and then a coin as a filler). I am not confident, but my thought is that the coin is added once you exhaust a bucket (maybe not including skills), with a limit of at most one coin per draw, or increasing the coin's weight as you go on.

[Anonymous No.]

>Reine keeps trying and failing to upgrade Mumei's feather, wasting her gold
>Keeps popping the special to erase all the experience
Bird brain

[Anonymous No.]

>>27299418
I think coin correlate with item while stat correlate with skill

[Anonymous No.]

>>27299059
What's wrong? I couldn't tell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>27299584
>Reine keeps trying and failing to upgrade Mumei's feather, wasting her gold
At what success rate?
Feather is strong, it worths a little gambling risk.

>Keeps popping the special to erase all the experience
I don't blame her. It is not an obvious realization at first glance. Also, streaming a game makes the chuuba unable to concentrate on it.