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I've had a lot of fun discovering and watching VTubers over this corona period. But something about it just leaves me with a bad taste afterwards. It's like when you eat a big greasy fast food meal and it tastes great but you can just feel afterwards that you did something super unhealthy to your body.Everything just feels so empty after I'm done consuming it. I don't know these Vtubers personally, what they're really like, they will never know who I am, I will never know of their friendships are genuine and even if they are I'll never experience anything like it. I'm no stranger to escapism, I watch anime, I play Japanese RPGs, but none of those leave me with this hollow feeling.
>>259266same, 'bas are defiantly a guilty pleasure
>>259266It's like a fucking drug. You know it's not real and never will be. Take a look at Senzawa to now. Night and day. She's so watered down, you can tell it's so she can keep her contract. Anyone would do it to reap the rewards, but it just shows that all of it is just an illusion to keep the paypigs paying. Best thing to do is just listen to the music, it doesn't leave me with that hollow feeling.
>>259345Like the name, HOLOlive?
>>259266I think it’s the uncanny valley of it. I wish they wouldn’t posture as if their character has faded and it’s the “real them” now. It just adds to this feeling because deep down you know it’s still an act. It feels bad. I think we need to really view it as them putting on a performance for us, and it will leave you less hollow. Anime doesn’t leave you hollow because you know they’re characters
>>259397The only part not hollow about them is the boobas
>>259489Filled with warm milk.
>>259266Its because>We all know its fake as fuck, even if that's a given>It doesn't feel personal. It's you watching some girl pretend to be an anime girl for thousands of people at once>At the end of the stream you're left with the knowledge that you spent an hour or so of your life watching someone play a video game and ramble about shit. Sometimes that's nice, but chances are you watch the regularly and there's a part of your brain that knows you're wasting a lot of time watching stuff with no real pay off.>Lets face it, many of these girls are interchangable after a certain point, or rely on a gimmick that gets ignored after a few months or gets old.
>>259410Come watch mori, she’s the one acting the least. In general, chuubas that are actually talented in other careers are the ones putting on less of an act.
>>259551I haven’t tuned into her really but I’ll give her a shot
>>259530Like you don’t watch tv>We all know its fake as fuck, even if that's a given>It doesn't feel personal. It's you watching some celebrity pretend to be themselves for thousands of people at once>At the end of the show you're left with the knowledge that you spent an hour or so of your life watching someone play a trivia game and ramble about shit. Sometimes that's nice, but chances are you watch the regularly and there's a part of your brain that knows you're wasting a lot of time watching stuff with no real pay off.>Lets face it, many of these tv personalities are interchangable after a certain point, or rely on a gimmick that gets ignored after a few years or gets old.
>>259638I actually don't watch tv anymore, and haven't for years.
>>259638>>259410With TV you know they are putting on a show for you.
>>259712Did the anime girl on your screen not clue you in that this may be fake? I think you confused being bad at acting with being genuine.
>>259778Some of them pretend that they are becoming more like themselves (Risu), when deep down they really aren't.
>>259638The difference is most people who watch tv know it’s a sham unless they’re clinically retarded.
>>259818Risu of all people is a poor examplehttps://youtu.be/h4ocsaRq3ns
Trying to say these girls have “slipped their mask” and are now authentic is as retarded as claiming reality tv is real
>>259853Do they though? People act shocked when they find out Jerry springer is a setup. And ppl still get duped by reality tv. Hell, some thought Jersey Shore was real.
I think it's the social aspect of it, when you watch tv or play vidya you know it's just you and a designed product, watching streamers have fun together is like holding a potentially real socially fulfilling interaction just out of reach.
>>259909Some of it's authentic, and some of it's exaggerated or just acting. It's fun trying to figure it all out.
>>259981This is probably the best answer. We watch these girls because we're lonely and its a nice simulation of friendship, but it's all a performance set to a schedule and once the stream is over part of you realizes this. It's the mcdonalds of entertainment. You'll enjoy consuming it but afterwards you regret eating the thing.
I think it would be healthier if we didn’t view them as a human counterpart
>>260284it'd be great if we had AI vtubersthen I don't have to worry about them being hags or sluts IRL or putting up a face, since it would be their true programmed personality
At some point I grown sick of watching big companies. Look at all those people having fun together while you don't. Look at them laughing at their own unfunny jokes when you aren't. Look at girls in their 20s making more money per day than you can just dream making per year at the best possible peak of your career in your lifetime. Look at them pretending (but not really) that they are retards while you wasted best part of your life on higher education just to never use that knowledge again. Look at people who became instantly famous, rich and loved by millions. Doesn't this make you happy? They deserved it. They are everything that you arent: talented, interesting, hardworking, funny, cute. Enjoy watching someone living their life to the fullest, so you filthy NEET otaku could have a dream about it tonight.At least there are indies who stream at evenings after hard day at work, being watched by 2-3 people, so you can come and say こんばんは to them, and they would actually greet you happily.
>>259638>It's you watching some celebrity I only watch anime
>>260561Hes right though
>>260431I've always been puzzled about the "watch vs do" phenomenon that is streaming.
>>260623He is, but he still cares way too much
>>259266I think of them as entertainers, and their job is to entertain me. I don't feel empty, and I think neither would you if you viewed them the same way.
>>259266>>260431>"getting mad at the TV" the threadif this were anywhere else on the internet I would say "get a life" but that's not gonna fly here as I know well enough myselfit's entertainment you fucking faggotsdon't get so retardedly invested like those 3rd world marketplace fishwives that attack a soap opera actor when they see him because he totally killed the starlet character in that melodrama the week before.Your problem is that you're using this shit as a crutch for real human interaction. As a gf simulator which only leads to further disillusionment or even the worst of nip otaku stalker shit.If the program stops being entertaining change the channel don't keep sitting like a moron staring at the screen. Or, better yet, go read a non-shit book.Infinitely more "fulfilling" that 99% of youtube crap anyway. But you won't. None of you will. You'll continue to watch what you consider soul-sapping videos, and come here to bitch about it, as the time ticks inexorably away from your life minute by minute and you won't do anything to stop it because you are you and there is no known cure.
>>260827can I follow you on reddit?
>>260431Hey, at least you only dream about it. Some people actually go ahead and waste their time developing art (or other) skills in hopes to be recruited for a fraction of what their labour is worth. The company is always the one making money, never the employee.
>>260827Many of them are not just entertainers, but carefully designed waifu and gf simulators and they know it. Japan has a whole industry of such entertainment, you can rent an actress who will pretend to be you girlfriend for a day. More than that, you can rent a whole family, including parents, grandparents, wife, kids and uncle. VTubers are just like that except virtual. Maybe Kizuna Ai with gaming videos is a genuine entertainer, but many others are not.They prey on the weak. And get a life advice is as useful as "if you're homeless, just buy a house".
That's why you watch indies who you know are too autistic to put on an act
Jesus people, just put the cartoons playing minecraft on in the background while you fold laundry or whatever, don't fucking think so much about dumb shit like this.
>>259266>I'm no stranger to escapism, I watch anime, I play Japanese RPGs, but none of those leave me with this hollow feeling.They literally do you retardChubbas are literally the same garbage you consoome
>>263108>They literally do you retard>I know what you are feeling better than you do
>>25926664% of Millennials are single. That's a huge market for vtube and exactly why it feels like a drug. It's second-hand friendship with someone who may or may not share the same interests as you do. It's someone pretending that they care which is better than no one pretending that they care. It probably is harmful but what are you going to do? Die in a bout of depression?
>>259266i feel like most of them do care about their viewers on some general level (as in, they want their viewers to do well and be happy)of course they can't care about you on an individual level, that's unrealisticbut their streams combined with interacting with the community make it feel genuine to me. i'm happy being a onigiriya, risuna, or whatever else and i treat it as something that adds value to my life on top of everything else.it only becomes unhealthy if you start to isolate yourself and only watch vtubers to substitute actual interaction>>259266
>>261297>And get a life advice is as useful as "if you're homeless, just buy a house".For fuck's sake, this.>Just bee yourself
i am so fucking lonely
>>261500How to find obscure indies?
>>264535i posted an indie recommendation thread a while ago but u fucks buried it with shitposts and oranges. go look at the archives
>>259345I look at gura now and I see senzawa back then. One of them is playing a character, the other is genuine. I daresay it's spooky.
>>264730>I was the anon who started the gura singing bait thread....
>>261500Been enjoying this so far. Just watching a stream of some awkward guy/girl tuber with like less than 50 other people as I work. Feels a bit more engaging than others with thousands of folks where leaving a chat seems pointless.
>>265054https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-_CgpJPl-Uno it's all me posting my favorite INDONESIAN vtuber
I hate watching indies when there is someone else is in chat. 3 viewers, one is me, other is probably chuuba themselves checking how stream is working, and the last one is some retard who I hate writing dumb shit like "hi, how are you". Get out, I'm trying to watch a game here. I can block them, but I can't stop chuuba interacting with them.
>>263391I mean you could take up a hobby. Try out woodworking or something.
>>259266I think you're just a pseud
>>260343Yeah, until they start passing the Turing test and the line between human and machine becomes irrevocably blurred.
>>259345have you watched HER streams?? Gura now is far more real than blue gremlin ever was and has way more energy. I think she genuinely wanted to move on from the edgy repetitive humor (she literally said this in her own words a few months ago) and is currently finding and expressing aspects of it that she wants to keep
>>265965>literally said this in her own wordsDid you actually expect her to say "I did it for the holo shekels?
>>259266You and many people in this thread are trying too hard to cope with all those things in your post. Instead of obsessing over what you can't have and will never know and blaming vtubers for your own inability to compartmentalize reality from entertainment, you should instead take them as inspiration to find some semblance of all these good things in your own lives.Which means ditching toxic people, finding new friends, exploring hobbies and finding one you truly can dedicate yourself to, and perhaps looking deep into yourself and seeing what you want out of life and what would make you satisfied with your life. Ultimately you will be happiest if you can convince yourself that you are truly making the most of your short time alive.All that being said, rarely have I encountered people who will never be able to make genuine friends. As long as you treat others with kindness and find things you can connect to others with, then you should be fine. Honestly, in this day and age, it's way easier to make connections with people—there are countless ways to find others who are interested in the things you're interested in, like through forums, chat rooms, conventions, etc.—and eventually you'll encounter people you want to be friends with. Don't give up, anon.
>>266032I have a feeling you're either not arguing in good faith or you haven't watched Hololive, or both. Holos have said and done way edgier things than the things Senzawa has said. She chose to go with the current personality for a reason, even if it's just for practical reasons (like it being less exhausting to keep up because it's closer to her natural personality).
>>266318>Holos have said and done way edgier things than the things Senzawa has saidWhat does that have to do with anything? I was just saying if she was actually motivated by money do you think she would be dumb enough to admit it?
>>266372Because I expected to you actually be responding my post, instead of responding with a non sequitur? Did you think I meant she was censoring herself when she said those things in her own words or something? I just meant that I was paraphrasing her.
>board is five days old>already schizo doompostersAre you for real fgt
>>2665672021 is the year Vtubing dies just you wait!
I have never watched a vtuber besides some highlight reel videos made by fans on YoutubeI feel this urge every day to make the plunge and accept my fate as a weeb. The only reason I don’t is because the last part of me that hasn’t completely lost itself to mental illness is screaming that this won’t fill the void. I learned from gatcha games that waifus can only salve the emptiness inside for so long. “Why bother with the screen anymore?” says the addict to himself. He judges others for the same flaws he has. We might as well be on different planets. Cosmic travelers that fight the omnipresent darkness by writing letters to each other. Love or hate is doesn’t matter, just feeling someone else’s energy is enough to sustain on
>>259266Am I the only one who just uses the streams as background noise?
>>267595Background noise to what?
>>267617shitposting on 4chan
>>266254I am probably a little bit fucked up in my thinking since I haven't been able to leave my house and see anyone in person for a year.
Vtubers give me a primal urge to craft a persona that can monetize all my hobbies and interests and sand away the rough edges of my personality into a flawless fictional character of myself who's life is archived, but I realize this is not realistically possible.
>>267617Background stream as I play the greatest game of all time
>>268926you know you can do most of that without becoming a vtuber, right? maybe you'll have less motivation but it's possible
Like most people I probably wouldn't have gotten into it if my life were more substantial, but it's not so I did, and I can't say I regret it in that case
>>259266I don't really feel that way. Do you feel empty after playing a video game or watching a tv show? They're characters played by entertainers. I will say though that I wonder if I would've fallen down the rabbit hole were it not for the WuFlu bullshit; I mean, I haven't seen most of my friends in almost a year now because of that. Either way, I don't doubt part of the appeal is it's like you're hanging out with an ersatz friend, but that would be no different (I imagine) from watching regular streamers, and is no different from why I like Red Letter Media's Best of the Worst uploads so much. Idk. I'll shitpost in things like hag threads saying I WANT TO MARRY [X] holo but I don't think I'll ever "Marry" them. At most I see them as funny personas with varying degrees of their 'actress's' real personality coming through and I"ll say "man would be nice to date someone like that." But, you know, I would have had said the same in threads for various harem and moeshit over the years so it's not like I'm growing an unhealthy attachment to them. But then again, I'm not completely friendless and not so lonely as to get those bad attachments some are prone to. I think I had a point here, but honestly I'm tired af so I lost that point. thanks for listening to my tedx talk
Recently I've been thinking "would I watch and not be embarrassed of watching these people if they streamed without their avatar" and the answer is no for like 95% of them, and it's kind of ruined the entire thing for meAlso the gachikoi / paypig aspect more prevalent with the big names makes my skin crawl the exact same way beta orbiters with twitch thots does
>>271639The whole point of an avatar is to play a character you cannot, I actually hate people who don't take full advantage of it. If it feels weird it just means that their personality isn't real enough which considering women are writing most of this stuff it's inevitable for that to happen. For the gachikoi part that happens to almost every entertainer, it's only weird when the Holo plays into GFE which is almost every Holo nowadays. I've started watching Holostars and I've gotten a lot more comfortable because I realize that I don't watch them for their gender but their actual personality (not that I did before with female Holos).
>>263492Based healthy mindset anon
>>259345W8Is gura senzawa?Ive been wondering where senzawa went
>>267241Go outsideVisit your friendsMake some if you dont have anyAnd download a dating app, someone Will Bite
I know we ain't nothing but dust in the wind so once they get big enough I leave.
I guess I just want some fucking nerd to care about what video games I like and be able to list my good points as much as they can about their favorite Chuuba
>>259345Senzawafags are delusional, she left that shit community and that character behind.
Heh, I guess it really is a Hollow Life
>>260550>only watching anime
>>269217What a grand and intoxicating innocence
>>259345Gura puts in very little effort into encouraging paypigs like reading out superchats (much like Fubuki, previous queen of Hololive that wasn't anywhere near the top in subscriptions). You can't in good conscience watch her cooking videos and say she isn't having fun.
>>273516What are you waiting for anon
>>260431I think about it the same way as you in a sense, which is why I think mori's motivavtional shit is bad, because it comes from a woman that only got a chance because she was born as one. But I also dont think they are interesting at all, like any of them, they are just different flavors of generic jap women (haachama being the only one being more than baseline), I watch them just because I think its fascinating to me still that the tecnology is able to make me believe a 2d girl streams
>>276940life itself is hollow, there is no meaning aside from what we decide has meaning, everything is the result of chemical processes creating the brains we think with and the instincts we're stuck withso if you think watching vtubers is a Hollow Life and you decide those words have meaning and are true, then just do something elsebut if you think it's worthwhile and encouraging and motivational, then watch it all you wantits what you want from life, change it if you're not happy
>>259266watching "anime girlfriend simulator" streams is unhealthyya don't say
>>284301I'm not a cute girl so I don't have a built in audience of simps
It's all parasocial relationship, you care about them while they barely cares about you. Just treat then like actual entertainers, don't even try to imagine them as your friend or partner.
>>259266>I'm no stranger to escapism, I watch anime, I play Japanese RPGs, but none of those leave me with this hollow feeling.The difference is that, with vtubers (and arguably streaming in general), you're spending hours watching their streams in the hope that maybe they'll do something funny or cute or cool that will make all the time you invested into them worthwhile and that almost never happens.It's not like, say, a good anime, in which every minute was specifically crafted with care and talent to provide its viewers with a good viewing experience, and maybe even an actual message of some sort. If you just want the good bits of a stream, your best bet is to wait for the highlights video to get posted to youtube.Or, as Arin Hanso so eloquently put it before tossing all his ideals out the window, "It's kinda like comparing a snack food to a high class dessert. You can just chomp away mindlessly at snacks because that's how they're made. They're addictive by nature. They just make you reach for more, even if you don't really want more. But a high class dessert takes some slowing down. It demands that you take a moment to enjoy how complex and satisfying it is. In the end you'll always think more highly of the high class dessert because it gave you a feeling of true satisfaction. It's not designed to go on forever, it was designed to finish off a meal. Maybe it was so good you wanted more, but what you had was delicious! And you're glad you had it."
because they are as soulless as their anime avatars
>>287495I was referencing a Kelly comic on Vtubers
as someone said, it's the uncanny valleyyou are watching a robot but it's an anime girl
>>289922no, I know the reference, but I guess I was just ranting for those who really thought about it that way
>>267241Just join the KFP and start watching Kiara anonYou will finally find a purpose in following her like countless others have, be them generals, air tower operators or artistsYou will get to become one of many people striving together towards common goal and appreciating each other no matter how they advance the causeCome anon, join us and never feel alone again!
>>287495>still believing in reductive physicalism in 2021topkekThere's literally no way to reconcile that retarded-ass position with the raw fact of consciousness.
>>291092Lmao human is just two brain halves coming to conclusions as hivemind Shit ain't complicated
>>291092>think you're somehow specialhey man, once again, life is whatever you decide is meaningful, so if believing that makes you feel better then go for it
>>272976senzawa is her roommate