/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

[Anonymous No.]

Why is the rigging of the major corpos so BAD?

[Anonymous No.]

I don't know why people on this board have such a hard time comprehending that just because a company CAN pay for something that it doesn't mean they will. The point of a corporation is to make money. If they see no incentive to spend money, they won't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904073
I think they're using proprietary stuff for all their rigging, so it looks fucking terrible. While the smaller corporations are using the open-source stuff which is far superior.

Like Amiya can stick anything she wants to her model and it will move with her. It's interesting to see it.

[Anonymous No.]

>Indie owns their model(s) so the rewards outweigh the risk of investment
>Corpo model can be rendered useless because the talent left and they'll get 'black company'd if they try to reuse it. Have to invest in models for loads of talents, 3 to 5 at once

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Normally I’d say “bait thread” but this is actually true, why the fuck are the corporate vtubers who are essentially the celebrities in the scene the ones with the shittiest rigging?

Some are worse than others but even in their 3.0 teaser it shows they aren’t doing anything to fix the actual problem which is the base model’s. The rigging is one thing but for some the artists are just really bad at separating values and basic understanding of form. (The bread and butter for seamless rigging.

As much as I hate Vwhorejo Viebei’s new model puts everything holo and niji to shame. Shit is actually embarrassing and can’t blame anyone but the companies for being so fucking cheap despite their talents flooding money in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904073
they can make the money back in 1 stream though

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Because it doesn't need to be good.

[Anonymous No.]

One thing I do not like is all the Holomems using the new updated 3D home models or whatever its called all have identical eyes and teeth. Shit's unnerving, like Stepford Wife material.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905201
>like Stepford Wife material.
Good they're all perfect, that's the point. I wish more of the girls that had capable rigs would use 3D at home, I can't get over how much I love Noel and Lamy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
>proprietary software that's years behind technologically
>no incentive to invest in great models because the top chuubas all have average-at-best models
>models are made as cheaply as possible to increase profit and minimize potential loss if the talent leaves or isn't successful
>models are made under strict time constraints where reveal dates may be set before the model is finished
>models can't be updated or improved easily for the above reasons

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
They realized that a good model is only needed for first impression. Once your brand is big enough, you don't need that kind of shit. Just being average is enough because your fans are now attracted to your talents personality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Most corpo rigging is great. Indies adding excessive bounce and physics to everything only looks good to braindead retards. It’s like excessive bloom lighting and chromatic abberation in games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Too much chuuba to manage.
Unlike indies and small corpos, If one Hololive chuuba got live2d update the other 50+ would also need to be updated. This will need a lot of time and money and sometimes the return from the investment isn't worth it. This is especially worse for Nijisanji who has 100+ chuuba and whose most of them isn't popular enough to warrant an upgrade.

[Anonymous No.]

speak for yourselves
Major companies that are SOUL and put in effort will get good products

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905391
Entirely this plus
>Alternate models/costumes are generally used once and never shown again, wasting time money and resources for no pay off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
You face when the original and industry standard is now in eternal slumber

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
wow wtf that's really good.

[Anonymous No.]

Gotta wait another 2 years for hololive to get actually decent models

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905013
M'lady CookieSwirlC, the most popular EN vTuber in the world, uses the same rigger that much of "Vwhorejo" and their friends use, and her rigging is great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
Ai-chan...

[Anonymous No.]

It has been kind of funny watching people not restricted to proprietary programs continually get better. The new program that was created for Veibae's tracking, Vbridger, is only $10 so even 2views are able to afford it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905925
they get to flex the rigging on hoelive when they collab its great

[Anonymous No.]

Cum

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905512

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905013
>Vwhorejo
p sure that even there it is the individual vtuber that commisions that work not the "org", vshojo as a company barely exists.
That being said whoever they are paying to do it is doing it well.

[Anonymous No.]

Is this the 2view cope thread? Sorry fags. No amount of money can cover for your lack of personality and charisma.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905630
>alternative models/costumes are generally used once
Now this is a flat out lie. HoloMyth vary their outfits all of the time

[Anonymous No.]

Gura dress, webm related.

Meanwhile, an Indie model:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2qFMKHpNM&t=872

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
that's like asking why some of the most subscribed youtubers have scuffed microphones and record themselves using a webcam. it's just fluff.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906591
They don't pay any one person. They just use freelance riggers. Big names like DyaRikku, Rotuslotus, and 2wintails are unaffiliated with any real company and are allowed to do a good job because they aren't under strict time + budget limits like this anon said. >>22905391

>>22906221
Some genuinely amazing stuff being done with vbridger. Saw this clip featured the other day from a fucking pre-debut vtuber. Absolutely demolishes the big corpos in terms of tracking quality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906969
does it work though? Not half assed rigging drom the start?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Honestly, because they don't want to make it the normal, well at least for anycolor they know that not all their liver Will bring viewer and money, so giving a fail liver a super good rigging is just wasted of money

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
Now do that for 40 other talents while rolling the dice on them fucking up and getting themselves terminated or graduating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906969
Minto...

[Anonymous No.]

>>22907378
damn bro I didn't know cover was on the risk of collapsing financially any day now. there's no way they could afford to do that

[Anonymous No.]

They simply were in the scene for much longer than most indie. They would need to revamp tech and rigging for a lot of models for multiple talents, especially for old costumes. They also understand that there's diminishing return in trying to keep investing in rigging improvement as most viewers don't care nor notice the difference. Technology wise, they probably prefer to explore new front such as 3d live tech that might give them more efficient investment

[Anonymous No.]

>guys hololive rigging is so much better

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
They are using their own proprietary in-house live2D engines, whereas most other smaller corpos and indies use third-party software.
Those in-house apps were maybe good a few years ago, but have since become lagging behind in tech advances. Which is to be expected, given that when you want to do both (being a talent management agency AND also developing your own tech at the same time), one side will always suffer, and it's usually the tech part. Other agencies / indies sensibly outsource that part altogether and use off-the-shelf readily available software from specialised developers, so they can focus completely on the talent management part instead.

Another problem for the big agencies Hololive/Nijisanji specifically is that even if they wanted to get their tech in order and upgrade every talent to a new improved model/rig, those updates are usually doled in batches and in order of seniority, so no one can bitch about favoritism or being treated unfairly, you just have to "wait your turn", that's why it can sometimes take ages for your specific oshi to finally get an improvement when it's time for the bi-annual or annual model upgrade to come around.

Smaller corpos, and indies especially of course since they don't have to ask / wait around for no-one and can do things anytime on their own initiative, are much more responsive.
You want a new prop/accessory for your model that actually moves? You can just add it yourself or comission it, the flexible third-party software supports that, and voila next stream you're ready to display it.
Meanwhile Hololive, the "industry leader" with the most subscribed chubas who rake in six figgy incomes? You have to put in a request for an accessory to maybe get it in half a year when the next model update finally rolls out, and in the meantime you have to make do with shitty static png overlays, and their audience is left with cope about "b-but it's ~sovl~" when it's frankly embarrassing for a company of that size.

But yeah, as to why their tech is not better? In the end, it's the audience's "fault", because as long as they accept it, there's not incentive to do better, and they can just continue to coast on the lowest possible effort

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906969
>open link
>immediately a kfp SC

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
>Corpos
The fast food of chuubas

[Anonymous No.]

I saw this clip the other day: https://youtu.be/ai1V0VhmET8
And it just made me sad, I forget Gura isn't even at her final form and could, but probably never look 10x better

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Isn't Life2D 3.0 supposed to fix all that for Hololive?

[Anonymous No.]

Basically years ago with corpos like Cover or Niji are getting started, there is practically no open source or "free use" vtuber software, and paid options were both expensive to license at scale and were honestly pretty dogshit.

Fastforward to today and we have both fully open source software, and even some closed source software that is still "free to use" commercially, and this software is leaps and bounds over old shit from 4 years ago. Also a large community is always going to be able to update software and add new features than a bunch of Japs being paid pennies on deadlines. Honestly even some of the western startups and corpos should be using this better software but aren't for whatever reason, probably because they are using established creators and riggers still used to the shitty corpo software and have retarded deadlines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22908735
they only announce it we still havent seen anything

[Anonymous No.]

No I'm not watching your 2view

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
isnt this 3d?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22908782
Holo and Niji use proprietary software I'm fairly certain. And the mainstream program most people use these days is vtubestudio, which is $15 on steam.

>>22908885
Could not have posted an uglier picture of Korone to prove the point everyone in this thread is making lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904198
Amiya has great costumes.

[Anonymous No.]

KSon actually had an interesting conversation about this when she revealed her new model, which I think we could maybe all agree is actually pretty good? And it's an interesting conversation because I guarantee she went about getting her new model the same way you get a new model in her old company. And how she was doing it was fucking awful: Acting as an intermediary between the artist and the person actually rigging the model. The rigger guy constantly needed new stuff different angles and slight tweaks to the art which eventually got kson to the point of just fuck it, here's a room on discord you two just fucking talk to each other. And, hey, wouldnt you know it, when the artist guy worked with the rigging guy and was able to make edits, tweak things, redraw stuff, give them different angles pretty much on the fly: incredible model and rigging. I guarantee hololive is still doing the intermediary thing

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909021
I had a stroke and forgot to add something extra in my first paragraph. But yeah they do use proprietary software they made because it was better than alternatives at the time, but have now fallen way behind when there are now LICENSE FREE options even corpos can use now. vtubestudio isnt even the only one, though its pretty dang stable if you dont want to mess with opensource options.

[Anonymous No.]

I thing i don't like in a lot of engines is this fad of modeling hair like it's sculpted out of silly putty. Shit is just stupidly excessive. You need some movement of course, but actual hair doesn't behave at all like that, it can get distracting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Corporations are investing their money on somebody else
Indies are investing their money on themselves

[Anonymous No.]

What i don't get is why do so many think they need a live2d when 3d tracking is both easier and looks better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
>>22905948

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909215
Live2d looks better than a straight 3d model though (a live2d model is already 3d just only from a certain range of angles). Notice how Hololives at home 3d models kinda look souless? You'd have to up the polycount and get way more accurate facial tracking to get them to look better or use tricks and hacks...which is what basically live2d is.

[Anonymous No.]

Because at a certain point tech stops mattering. It's like the generation gap between video game graphics nowadays, once you get to a certain point it becomes less and less worth it to invest in costlier (in either time or money) methods for the models rather than on the talent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909485
This >>22906221 costs $10.

[Anonymous No.]

Because Hololive needs to waste the money on Holoearth and Hololive Error
pls understand

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909426


Most the earliest virtual streamers like Sora, AI, Veibei, et cetera, used 3d models. Others like Pochimama use a 3d model too, and they all looked great. Every example i can think of looks or looked preferable to their l2ds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Honestly I can't tell the difference from all the examples posted in this thread and if I can't tell the difference I doubt most other people will either. The people who care will migrate to the better rigged models but most people are there for the personality and voice. Do I really care about someone's hairs moving individually or the folds of their outfit? Not really. I barely watch the streamer most of the time because I'm either watching the game or putting it on in the background.

>>22906221
Like for this one, unironically what's the difference?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909426
If your 3D looks worse than your 2D it's because your 3D isn't good enough

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906969
Why would Cover do this? It's a fucking insult

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909669
Don't you still need to hire a rigger in order to make use of this?
Because it needs a rigged model in order to work and remove jank.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909773
Mouth shapes are the big thing. With the bottom the mouth tends to keep the same shape the entire time and simply expands or contracts or opens or closes. There's also subtle movements captured with the chin and cheeks moving from side to side while the default tracking remains static. This is also an example wihere the already created mouth tracking judst gets run through vbridger for better results. If you want facial tracking as it appears when made for vbridger specifically you can look at Veibae's new model, or something like this >>22906995

And this is comparing vtubestudio's default tracking to vbridger, which is already superior to whatever proprietary shit Cover and Anycolor are using. Were it possible to get a direct comparison the difference would be drastic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906969
When you're streaming none of this is going to be visible though right? I can see why the big corpos don't bother upgrading, like imaging doing this for all 200 Niji members
I guess it's impossible for us to know but I wonder if these better models take a lot more time and that's why they just use their in-house stuff instead because they already have a faster workflow for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906995
How much would it cost to just hire one of these riggers full time and have them do everything in house? Or is that just not a thing corpos do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Nobody watches a 'tuber for the rigging, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909931
Yes and no. Lots of 2views are learning vbridger themselves since it's apparently pretty easy to "port" your already-existing rigging over to it for instantly better results. Hiring someone to do that shouldn't be expensive at all per model for a noticeable increase in quality with minimal effort.

>>22910380
It's not a binary choice anon. A good vtuber can have good rigging too. Acting like you can only have one or the other is a massive cope.

[Anonymous No.]

In addition to what others have said, Cover and Anykara do quite a bit of development in-house, because in 2018 Cover, a tech company, actually was one of the very few third-party options available to anyone. Back then both Cover and Anykara really had some of the best models in the industry. Also Cover especially has cultivated relationships with the "mamas" and "papas" they outsource art and rigging to. Japanese Confucian-inspired ethics dictate that the employer must take care of and reward the loyalty of their old workers. So they can't just replace their old contacts and their work in favour of someone else just because that someone else might be more competent and would have been the first choice had they been able to afford that someone earlier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22910613
The software / budget / time limits are the problem, not really the people making the models Gura's rigger notwithstanding. Veibae's last model was rigged by someone who's done tons of Hololive work and it was way higher quality than pretty much anything he did for Cover for those reasons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22910840
>Veibae's last model was rigged by someone who's done tons of Hololive work and it was way higher quality than pretty much anything he did for Cover for those reasons.
huh, what's the main difference then? pay, time constraints, or just the software?

[Anonymous No.]

Lemme ask you somethin. When you pulled in here, did you see a sign out front that said dead rigger storage?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906995
>pre-debut vtuber.
Well then it's worthless isn't it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911585
Yes anon that's what's called an example of what a $10 program is capable of. If you want a non pre-debut example just look at Veibae's new model. https://youtu.be/7oiAGp2tlEQ

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911517
Now, Gira, you know I didn't...

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
For the sake of comparisons, which vtubers have models with good rigging?

Yes, it's easy to shit on Holo/Niji. But I wanna see examples of rigging done right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911024
All 3 are pretty interlinked and work together to create quality or lack thereof. Indies will usually just let riggers handle things at their own pace or be more flexible with how long they let they can take which is how they can so often get better results unless they're on a shoestring budget.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911770
great model ruined by a fucking frog
holy fuck 15k just for the rigging, i need to learn how to rig

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
ai convinced me for like several years that the model wasnt live and instead just hand animated afterward because it was so good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
I've come to this realization in the past week, every single Holo is just a face layered over a nech and shoulders and it's impossible for me to not see now that I've seen it

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912468
It's a lot of work and it's boring as fuck and incredibly tedious. Seeing how long her model took means the pay was about $75 an hour which is a lot more reasonable than just seeing the 15k figure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909059
holo managers being involved in model stuff explains a lot

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912633
>$15000 for one model
Jesus holy hell christ

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
The standard for what live 2d should be rose drastically because of competition
In reality you basically need a png that can show a little movement to kick off.
It would be nice if they did improve though
My favorite vtuber's model never worked. She always glitched out, got frozen, barely had her movement followed

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905098
anon businesses dont care if they can make back a profit if they'll make the same profit anyway without spending extra money.
thats why the pokemon company is running the series into the ground even though they have the profits that make any expense so negligible that theyd always make profit success or not.

[Anonymous No.]

Still not watching your 2view

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
>>22905013
Because they don't NEED it

[Anonymous No.]

>>22910499
I'm not saying they can'r have both.
I'm saying they don't particularly care because it's irrelevant to their success.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912516
I remember people watching her first live stream going "wtf is this real?"
good times

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906969
Wait a sec, that voice...

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912516
if you still want to be fucked up she's using a kinect

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909827
It's just futa dick physics bro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22910359
It'd cost more than a corpo would be willing to pay.
Not only do these riggers make some serious money per rig, but they make their own deadlines as well. With both hololive and nijisanji their riggers probably get 3-4 months to rig at most.
Plus that I'd assume that most the riggers probably work at the company office which would put a lot of people in a tough position of trying to move to a whole new country in order to become a rigger for a mass corporation

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912633
>$15k
>5 months
Now imagine if Cover decided to renew all the 51 live2D models they have (31 JP, 11 EN, 9 ID), while preparing for five JP gen 7, five EN gen 3 and three ID gen 4 with the papas and mamas with their schedules packed. It would take forever despite spending $1 million dollars for nothing

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
Come back ai chan......

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916187
Keep in mind that Cover and Anycolor also see no reason to improve upon their technology since it's created insanely successful people despite the fact that most of them can't turn their heads more than 3/4s of an angle and guras is literally shaped like a rhombus

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Both of them use bots and are front organizations for the PRC to ensure japanese men don't breed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
Ai is a different case, she had staff there with her at all times.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22914632
No fucking way

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
AI proves that rigging tech is irrelevant to the success of a streamer

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
This is not rigging tho it's just pure 3D

[Anonymous No.]

>>22908000
Why does the model on the left move so much, it's just distracting as hell. Just because it moves more and has some unnecessary jiggle physics doesn't mean it's better

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916467
That was only true when she was starting out. The webm is literally just showing off her home 3D rig.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912797
That's only the price she had to pay TheArtGun. She probably paid Neobeat around $10,000 for the design too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
The honest reason? Because they don't need it
Why spend more on expensive rigging, even if they have the funds to do so, if people watch them regardless? Hell, I'm guilty of this myself, I usually don't give a shit what the models do on screen, I'm there to listen to banter and hear their quirky personalities. So in the long run, I couldn't care less if each strand of hair moved or if their lips were synced

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905630
What do you mean, they vary that shit all the time.
Fubuki varies hers almost every stream.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911024
>what's the main difference then?
More freedom and it's easier to work with a designer like Neobeat where he can just contact him anytime if he asks for anything to be drawn for the rigging. Cover just handing over the assets from the designer to the rigger and not letting communicate or talk is just bad work ethics from Cover.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909773
People can barely tell when a rigger is shit tier, I’ve literally had to use multiple examples to get an average watcher to notice the differences between good and bad rigging. The main benefits are for those who rely on sex appeal like Shylily and Veibae since people come watch them for a specific reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22910840
For a more extreme example of that see Himono who's almost certainly the best rigger currently out there. She too has done some work for Holo but just compare her Risu to her masterwork.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917211
>Cover just handing over the assets from the designer to the rigger and not letting communicate or talk is just bad work ethics from Cover.
Use your brain, they have multiple artists and riggers for their talents. The same artist can have different riggers for his holo designs, while the same rigger can have multiple designers for his rigs. It's way easier to go through cover management so they can approve a certain change before passing onto the rigger, instead of letting then do whatever they want and having to roll back a change

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917353
this shit is like 3d animation for the untrained eye

[Anonymous No.]

Because it has soul.

[Anonymous No.]

I think what the big corps need to realize is that better models are going to make their talents even more attractive to potential new viewers. Keep in mind that the thing most people get drawn in by is the novelty of an anime girl tracked onto someone's real expressions, and the reason they stay is the voice/personality. It's marketing. Still though, they're going to be able to ride on goodwill far longer than they should in terms of tech and ultimately it's up to the viewers to make known, both through numbers and through text, their dissatisfaction with inadequate models/tracking/rigging until the company takes note and improves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917452
>corporation
>soul

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917624
Big corps don't need to have better models to attract potential new viewers
Even ridonculous, the new female niji wave, has higher viewership than most indies using expensive rigging

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905682
*Pregnant

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916187
And in the end the most used part is the torso and up part. Also look at Indie era Suisei, she had to make her own art and rigging so it look cheap and yet people love her for her personality and not her rigging.

I mean look at Beckoning Kitty Tatamaru, the design is cute but he never took off because he's boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917624
They already made other stuff like web series (Hololive Error), Weekly 3D animation series (Hololive anime), Live concerts, funding for original musics, merchandising and many other stuff.

[Anonymous No.]

My dude made better model in one stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQLndOtaDlQ
Japanese corpos always will find a way to make worst decisions there to be made. So i am not much surprised here

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Why are you Gay OP?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906221
>just make everything bounce bro

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
pride. using non-prorietary software would be admitting that their software isn't good, which it isn't. so they willingly make the product worse for no reason just because they can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904198
It's this. They use garbage in house software that can't even look 3 stuff on the model and in house riggers. That's why they keep putting static pngs over their models when they want to joke around, instead of pining an asset like everyone else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917624
They don't get new viewers by having a better rigging unless that viewer is watching some vloger channel that will report on it. Maybe it will trend one time on twitter but after that it's the norm. The promotion art on drinks, fastfood, whatever makes new people look them up.
For me i don't even look at the model most of the time. Heck they themself say that they are mostly watching streams as background noise while doing something else or catch up by watching clips. Their long sticky neck most vtuber seems to have doesn't help and just made me more aware how awful some anime charaters look.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917624
Vtubing stopped being tech-centric a long time ago. As proven by Ai's 3D tech ultimately not being able to save her; tech alone is not the main draw of viewers here but the talent.
Once you get to vtubing standard, spending more money and time to get a better model just doesn't have a good return on investment at a corporate level.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917452
This is the most hilarious recurring cope to shit rigging.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906995
>>22910011
so many vtubers have the mandible static while the upper jaw is the one that moves during speech, it's very uncanny valley even if it's derived from anime aesthetics that developed due to laziness (save time doing simply mouth flaps instead of animating jaw motion)

this one still doesn't move the jaw properly, but it's a damn site better than having the upper teeth flap with speech.

(see ame for an example of this travesty, even though I like her toothy smile)

[Anonymous No.]

>>22920982
>>22921058
Big companies use their own proprietary software for support and vulnerability issues

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Because almost all viewers don't give a shit about the actual rigging unles it's offensively bad. On the visual side the actual character design is what's most important by far.

[Anonymous No.]

>Create average-level rigging that won't matter much because the brand will bring viewers anyway
>Have the vtuber generate profit so if they garner enough subscribers/superchats you give them an update.
>Turn the 2.0 brush up a reveal event to bring in more viewers and rake in enough cash so it can pay for itself.
>If the vtuber keeps growing, repeat the strategy with a 3.0 reveal to make more money.

You're not capitalist enough, /vt/

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck live2d, when can we get this level of home3d?
https://twitter.com/Antifreez3_/status/1507707662427095042

[Anonymous No.]

>>22923902
but that's not live. the software would go crazy getting these inputs. If it's just about uploading post production videos then yeah. That's why i had no interest in Kizuna Ai at all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916873
holodrone cope

[Anonymous No.]

>>22923902
https://twitter.com/Antifreez3_/status/1405491047946506240
What is this sorcery

[Anonymous No.]

Juust like irl, at some point the looks of the model will be one of the least things you'll care. You will stay because of your oshi's personality and charisma.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905098
they don't make as much as you think they do

[Anonymous No.]

>>22919123
I want to sex him so bad

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905098
They can but if they don't upgrade it there's no loss to begin with. If it's not broken, don't fix it

[Anonymous No.]

the truth is that you faggots don't even care about the quality of the model, it can be a png with 2 expressions and a moving mouth and you would be happy, since the thing you are hooked to is the chuuba voice and personality, so you don't care about it, only artists do, you should rise your standards faggots

[Anonymous No.]

>>22928998
you just like the 3d girl behind it, not the 2d girl in front of you, that's the truth

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911770
$15,000 for that? What makes it so expensive? Is rigging a highly specialized tech skill or something?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916873
Have you ever actually watched someone talk? They generally move their heads around a bit and the one on the left actually tracks it properly instead of the model looking like it's have a seizure liek the one on the right.

[Anonymous No.]

watching some of these indies bounce around like jelly feels like watching a movie where a guy pulls out a shotgun, it makes a shitton of noise, he pumps it really loudly almost ripping it apart and then when he shoulders it it sounds like a kid running his hand through a box of legos

[Anonymous No.]

>>22929115
>is a job that only a few people in the world can do well as of now a highly specialized skill? And those models are used by some people that will make hundred of thousands from it

[Anonymous No.]

>>22929115
there are like 5 riggers that can do it properly + everyone and their mother wants to be a vtuber

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916187
Thing is that having a Veibae-tier model obviously isn't practical for every Holo, but something like 2k per talent + 2 months would go leagues towards making actually presentable shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>22917041
She broke down the entire thing during her debut. Spent something like 50-60k total for the entire thing with 100 new emotes, multiple custom BGM's, a lore video, all new overlays + stream assets, and the model itself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22923361
This is a good fantasy scenario the problem is neither Cover nor Anycolor have ever done anything beyond the first step.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
The rigging is fine enough most average human beings and about 75% of autists don't notice

Hololive unfortunately is a company, and profit is their motive (because they're a company); thus, the bottom line must be low.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909059
No wonder Anya's design got fcked by the rigger

[Anonymous No.]

>>22910011
>With the bottom the mouth tends to keep the same shape the entire time and simply expands or contracts or opens or closes.
That's better though. It looks more like anime, which is the point of vtubers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916626
but she did have success apt to the technology she possessed, its just that her golden era is long over and times have changed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904198
Vtube studio isn't open source and I really wish this misunderstanding ceased to exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22911770
>pepe
i was gonna shit on her but then i remembered her audience is twitch coomers

[Anonymous No.]

>Why is a homemade dinner much better quality than McDonald's
One is mass produced the other is individual specific
Indies can choose fast and good, corps have to choose cheap and fast usually

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033

great models require more frames of animation by the artist
corpos dont want to spend money in more artist budget


>>22917421

this kson webm comfirm it if you want the character to have great mobility it needs more art
tl;dr if you want gura to feel great it requires more art by nacho

[Anonymous No.]

>>22935604
That would hold true if corpos were on a rush, while they are, they can still take their time. For example, cover took about a year from holo EN gen 1's debut to their new outfits, and even so we still ended up getting the rhombus.
They are cheap because they can be cheap and walk away with it, since people will still watch and pour their money in, but they aren't exactly fast.
This might hold true for Niji since they keep on zerg rushing new talents though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22916187
don't forget Holostars and the coming Holostars EN too.
now scale this up to Anycolor's level. even having as many in house artists and riggers as they do, there are 100+ vtubers and there are many of them with LOT of costumes due to the pretty low threshold (50k). the current 2.0/3.0 upgrade has been going on for over a year and is nowhere near finished, not to mention the people that have debuted costumes that fall into gaps and are debuted on outdated tech

[Anonymous No.]

i dont get this obsession with godtier rigging its nice yeah but as long as your rigging isnt blatantly bad to the point its actually hard to look at then there isnt any reason to drop 4-5digits on insane rigging as the boost is paltry and not needed especially for this corpos at the top of the world. Its easier to Vshojo to do it because the talents actually own their own characters and risk is basically 0 as there will always be benefit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
Bros... I already miss her

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
>Kizuna
>SOUL
??????????????????????

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Sovl vs soulless
Too much movement is cringe and reeks of overcompensation

[Anonymous No.]

It's better to put the money in having a good design than it is to have great rigging. Gura is one of their most janky riggings, but the design is one of the most iconic in vtubing. Also I think the corporate process is that the rigger and artist are only talking to the company. So the artist does their job, and then they send it to cover, who send it to the rigger, and the rigger does the best they can with it. To get edits from the artists that cover uses would be extremely expensive and really set back the schedule. Usually they are juggling like 4 artists and riggers while trying to keep them all on schedule--it's just a lot of stuff indies don't have to mess with.

And if they want to update everyone in the company you have to go over and do the process all over again, but like 40 times. It's always going to be slower than an indie with like 5 girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22938558
It's just indiefag cope

[Anonymous No.]

Do big corpos allow talents to spend their own money to get better rigging? Or modified the model

[Anonymous No.]

>>22940036
Yes, at least Hololive
Ex: Coco

[Anonymous No.]

>>22940297
Pretty sure that's just one of those things people here made up. I don't think she ever said anything about paying for the 2.0 herself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22937953
that's because hololive doesn't have the models rerigged head to toe for new outfits. the original models are used as a base and it's just the outfit parts that get freshly rigged

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
covers is fine
NijiJP is good

[Anonymous No.]

>>22940036
I think they only pay for Music covers, PVs, and maybe special merch, but the models and riggers are up to the company

[Anonymous No.]

>>22938558
Holo and Niji rigging is blatantly bad though. The only people who don't think so are the people that only watch them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
why bother, they will graduate anyway, its like mori or gura paid for the model themselves?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
it doesn't need to be better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
remember what we lost bros...

[Anonymous No.]

>>22906221
$10 once or $10 a month subscription

[Anonymous No.]

>>22931368
>Spent something like 50-60k total for the entire thing
>for fucking PNGs

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909827
it doesnt have layers is a png
that outfit is as simple as a skin

[Anonymous No.]

>>22952892
>>22952892
Once. $25 total for both vtube studio and vbridger together. Bridger also has an editor for another $20 but I'm pretty sure only actual experienced riggers would get any use out of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22952989
But enough about NFTs

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Why are hippies deluded?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
I love rigger artists!

[Anonymous No.]

good rigging means nothing if the design is shit or the liver is boring as fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912267
none of them
OP is just doomposting

[Anonymous No.]

>>22956583
Good thing hololive has none of those things

[Anonymous No.]

>>22912267
Off the top of my head
Shylily https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CK1_ONe0UNM
Nyanners https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IysFmhpTo8
DyaRikku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8QjP-_wTg
Chibidoki https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DsY78WYoeo
Silvervale - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tP-x-4qfxc

Or for the absolute highest tier of 2D models right now there's Kson https://youtu.be/uNbuHqf7BJ8 and Veibae https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oiAGp2tlEQ

[Anonymous No.]

i decided to watch some clip of this indie whore shylily that got recommended to me and holy shit, her rigging is the most impressive ive ever seen
and she mentioned that her model + rigging, the whole thing cost her 8k, which is absolutely nothing for cover
i would be more than willing to bet cover paid at least that much for their models + rigging

>>22904073
retard
8k is absolutely nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands they pay annually to managers who spend 90% of their time doing jack shit, merchandising/distributors, advertising, lawyers to draw up contracts and fight copyright infringements, etc
you have to understand that japanese companies are bureaucratic nightmares, efficiency does not exist in corporate japan

the rational answer is this >>22904198 , but the reason why they still use their proprietary garbage over open source is not bc of something dumb like pride, but bc it is so fucking difficult to change anything in a japanese company
once a proceedure is established that is "good enough", its never going to change

[Anonymous No.]

>>22960638
noticed "theartgun" credited for veibaes rigging
sarueis model is also rigged by him so id include her too

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Same reason AAA video game companies with hundreds of millions of dollars of budget make big marketing pushes about "sex scenes" in their games, how adult and mature it makes them, then the scenes are 100x worse than what some amateur 3D modeler does in his free time

The normie meme that corporations must be better at doing something because they are big companies has never been true, in fact it is often the opposite of true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22963185
All of theartgun's rigging jobs are great. Even the model she did for Anthony Padilla's single-use bit was pretty good.

[Anonymous No.]

Because they're busy developing talent rather than gimmick tech shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22965592
What does this even mean. The vtubers themselves aren't developing tech shit. Hell the corpos are because they're using proprietary shit. Your example is completely backwards

[Anonymous No.]

>>22969146
Sorry man, you just don't get it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909059
There was a chapter in Oshi no Ko with this exact scenario kek. It also had the downsides of it (final produce going waaay out of scope due to unfiltered creativity).

[Anonymous No.]

>>22945203
...so most people then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22965592
I think it's because the fans are basically undiscerning morons who latch onto a brand name and don't actually care about the quality of what they're getting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22972166
Why you pretending, you make that shit up only to justify your own behaviour it's bizarre.
The thing being weighed is the girls themselves, if hololive was just regular girls people wouldn't still be watching 2 years later.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22963284
That's why the normie starve to death

[Anonymous No.]

>>22965592
what makes vtubers unique whatsoever is the gimmick tech shit. otherwise they'd just be random streamers

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905512
This so much. Also, anime faces aren't even supposed to be detailed. Some of the "good" entuber faces morph as if you are on LSD. That stuff belongs to disney, not in the anime world.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
Ah~ I almost forgot how beautiful Kizuna Ai's rigging / model / setup looked like, truly the gold standard. Sadly, it is impossible to give each talent the same level of detail to their 3d / 2d models (imagine giving each one of the 60+ Holos or each one of the 200+ Nijis the same treatment...)

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Shareholder profits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22909187
Simplest easy answer

[Anonymous No.]

>>22940036
Yes

[Anonymous No.]

>>22963094
Big companies don't use open source stuff because they don't want to be fucked over by a certain problem and having to wait days to open an issue to get it fixed

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Because they're too popular to need to deliver a good product.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905496
>your fans are now attracted to your brand
ftfy

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
its expensive

[Anonymous No.]

>>22979500
there's also business fees that no one seems to be mentioning

[Anonymous No.]

>>22904033
Didn't Gura get a new rigger when she got other outfits anyway? Or are they still using the rhombus retard?

[Anonymous No.]

They are afraid to upgrade because it's working and also it's hard to change.
Why would they risk a successful formula to end up with something soulless like this >>22906995
2.5D is a big appeal, when it gets too close to peak 3D it looks weird

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>22905627
she has that "step on your cock" vibe

[Anonymous No.]

>>22983275
Yeah, but he used base model by Shin
https://twitter.com/BrianTsuii/status/1469837283188740096

[Anonymous No.]

>>22985044
Brian Tsuii's also done rigging jobs for Froot and Bao and that Gura is definitely below those in quality. Definitely a time + money thing more than talent behind the riggers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>22986473
he has to work with shit that retard left behind and it would take a full rework to fix gura's model. the only way gura is getting a new, better rig is if she pays for it herself

[Anonymous No.]

>>22988440
If they even let her. There's probably some contract stuff where she can't just commission a brand new version of her base Live2D model. Cause if there's anyone that can afford an upgrade it's Gura

[Anonymous No.]

>>22983628
I'm not a fan of that design but it looks soulless because it's in testing. Comparing it to a final product with an actress moving it is disingenuous.

[Anonymous No.]

Is Cover the gamefreak of Vtubing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>22988775
I think that's why people are confused that they don't have better models, These girls are making so much money (The big ones), and its just up to them surely, if veibei can spend over $50,000 on her new setup surely Someone like Gura can splurge on a nice model/rigging.