/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

[Anonymous No.]

It's been 10 years. You have to let it go, anon. Forgive pink cat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
i like nyanners

[Anonymous No.]

I cant, she stole my shark's wife job, I just cant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Didnt she sperg out over that whole Nux thing recently? What does that tell you? She is still a massive cunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148070
got exposed by Nuxfag, had to raid some few indies to save face kek

[Anonymous No.]

https://youtu.be/CGDIZoXXdg8

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
A Leopard never changes its spots. The only way Nyanners could ever regain my respect would be to repent, become Catholic and start doing Bible study streams.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148070
She called him out for using vtubers as clickbait for his garbage content. It's not sperging out if it's just the truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
No. If she wishes to reclaim her lost honour she must commit ritual suicide.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Pink cat good,
Pink cat bad,
Pink cat do things that make me mad

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
I will never forgive, I will never forget.
She is a metaphorical Judas and must pay for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148070
I really don't blame Nyanners for hating Nux.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
But does Pink cat forgive Blue drunk yet

[Anonymous No.]

She makes milk and kiara wasted her live on stream i have no beef anymore. Instead i want too mating press the pink milker cat on live stream.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
i'll listen to Bad Vibez by Nyanners and still not forgive pink cat. nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148282
Did she also sperg out about Turkey Tom's video about her?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Shes still a dumb bitch except now shes middle aged. She should get a real job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Hag.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
>10 years
Jokes on you I can hold a grudge for at least 40.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
If I ever meet pink cat I will disembowel her for disrespecting me
I hope she's still petite so I can maintain an erection while defiling her corpse. I plan to get it done with while she's still warm and pliable.
Nyanners, I know you still lurk and ego search and this is a direct threat against you and your personal wellbeing. If the chance occurs, I will not hesitate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148823
>I hope she's still petite so I can maintain an erection while defiling her corpse.
She's probably fat now.

[Anonymous No.]

Funniest part is, most everybody already did....then the Veibae incident.....then the Zen quitting for a month+ incident....then the Nux/Doxxing incident

Every single time she drags out the high school tier "oh my god boohoo you don't know what's REALLY happening" shtick

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148070
>losing to Nux
Kek. She could have been the most popular EN vtuber but her personality is toxic af so we have to settle with Gura

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148964
>settle with Gura
Gura is a fucking gem you troglodyte.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148887
I suppose I can read some loli manga to keep it up if I must, it's about sending a message not about my pleasure

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
this is the type of thread you make if you want people to anti pink cat
take your own advice and let go anon, you're allowed to post her in your general so go do that. you don't need to prove yourself to anyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
When will she stop being a woke cunt?

>Verification not required

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148062

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149092
she has a vocally anti-sjw friend, she doesn't give a shit anymore anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149061
are you really so retarded that you thought this WASN'T an anti thread?

[Anonymous No.]

I was really suprised to find out that nyanners is trans, he pulls off the girl voice really well

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148585
You mean the idiot that accused MysteriousMrEnter of being a pedo, while having no evidence of him being one?
Nyanners would be correct in not liking the video of lowlife scum like him

[Anonymous No.]

ugh I know... but I'm just not going to watch her

I'm sorry!! I have an irrational hatred for her because I project this image of her in my head that she would hate me

[Anonymous No.]

I would just like to say that I hope nux commits suicide, thank you for reading

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149341
she'd love (you)
she wouldn't drop subtle-to-obvious hints of her channy past every other stream if she didn't

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149388
It has nothing to do with her past, I have this thing where I can tell if people would like me based on their personality. I don't even interact with streamers in chat but it hinders my enjoyment

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149518
I see. Glad you managed to find an oshi in spite of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149641
I don't have an oshi though

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149691
damn... this nigga saying no one likes him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149759
Yea I'm mentally ill

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149691
... what are you doing on /vt/ then?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149843
I watch various vtubers

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149859
like who?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149889
Various chuubas from small corpos (prism, kawaii, tsunderia), and some indies

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
>don't care about her past, everyone deserves a second chance
>current form is just as bad
So much for a second chance

>>17149172
>she doesn't give a shit anymore anon
She never did, she just joins whichever camp is more convenient for her at the time, she has no integrity

[Anonymous No.]

once a flipflopping attention whore, always will be

[Anonymous No.]

Pink cat is a traitor and traitors get the rope

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
I will curse Pink Cat on my dying breath. There will be no forgiveness.

[Anonymous No.]

You don't have to forgive pink cat. You can love brown cat instead.

[Anonymous No.]

her new model is such a massive upgrade to her old one, still not watching though

[Anonymous No.]

>>17151066

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Once she forgives 4chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>17150232
>she just joins whichever camp is more convenient for her at the time
That phrase describes every single female human on planet earth, with zero exceptions. That is their biological modus operandi.

[Anonymous No.]

Nothing to forgive I never hated her lol

[Anonymous No.]

I've always been indifferent to whatever she made. I disliked her for attacking this place when she got those new retarded leftoid friends though. I don't dislike her anymore since she stopped being as much of a retard, but I'm still not gonna watch anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17151066
SEEEEEEEEXXXXXXX

[Anonymous No.]

>>17151316
based

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148964
Calli and Vei are more popular than Gura.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149001
t. 11 year old roblox player

[Anonymous No.]

Lolipedos can never forgive her because that would require them to accept that her realization was correct, drop their delusions and accept that they're pedos.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152050
Alternatively they can admit pushing their shit like that looks bad and that they should read Foucault instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149341
>I'm sorry!! I have an irrational hatred for her because I project this image of her in my head that she would hate me
I'd recommend jerking off to her. She'll like you for sure if you do that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
The only thing being on 4chan for the past 14 years has convinced me of is that Nyannerz was right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152140
I'll bite, where should I start.

[Anonymous No.]

>Lolipedos
do tranny pedos really?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152156
recommend a stream of hers for that

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152140
Uhhhh Why Foucalt exactly?

[Anonymous No.]

I don't need to forgive pink cat because pink cat did nothing wrong

[Anonymous No.]

Its a Nyanners related thread so at this point i might as well try here does anyone have this Nyanners Vod ? :

>2020-08-01 THANK YOU FOR 100K FOLLOWERS AHHH !singstream | VTuber

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152475
Nice to see you here archive anon.
Now get some sleep and exercise you idiot, focus on your health.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148964
Despite being a tourist, you know the situation well

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149061
Purple cat young & good, pink cat old & bad

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152571
old is gold

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152386
Based

[Anonymous No.]

I will forgive pink cat if she will fuck me with her tail.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148062
Anon, it's better this way. Had she not stolen the job, we may have never gotten her in the way that we did, mostly reformed of her 'alcoholism'(in quotes because I know some will argue it was JUST an act).
Just consider it a bit of karma, or a blessing in disguise.

[Anonymous No.]

never, made for bullying

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152597
Old is mold in this one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149172
>the whole Nekopara thing
>the hilariously condescending rules she has for her discord
Yeah, she's still full tumblrina.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
what do i get for forgiving her?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152844
Milk.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152706
I feel like both gura and nyanners ended up in the right platforms for them. Gura is better now as a holo and I can't see nyanners being anything like a holo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152844
catmilk

[Anonymous No.]

She hasn't said sorry first. I will open my arms for a loving, forgiving embrace when she admits she was in the wrong. Just a few words and we'll be friends again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152975
hello i am pink cat and i officially apologize

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152521
I did sleep, a whole 4 hours of sleep that is after staying awake for 18 hours.insomnia is being a bitch right now but i should probably not have sleeping pills at home with how things currently are to try and fix it so i just deal with it.

To add to the topic i personaly dont have anything to forgive pink cat for ive only known about her since after her vtuber debut.

I know about the old 4 chan stuff but people dont seem to realize people can change and still hate on her for stuff that happened years ago unless nyan will does something realy fucked up looking at you cryaotic and arcadum i dont see my self hating on her for anything.Pink cat good.

[Anonymous No.]

pink cat tats

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148282
Only when it was at the expense of her company and she caused a streisand effect backlash when Nux proved he had recipes.
Nux is a faggot, but Nyanners is still a backstabbing whore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152975
>She hasn't said sorry first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKmzp9YR7-U

now it's your turn to apologize for being mean and then we're all even and on good terms

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153121
based but also you should really see someone to fix your sleep schedule, it's pretty unhealthy

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152975
There now apologize
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUX_hrZ5mls

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153232
>Nux proved he had recipes.
Is his cooking as bad as his content?

[Anonymous No.]

No, she's not GFE

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152386
based

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152356
>doesn't know

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Only Jesus can forgive pink cat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153562
I don't normally spend my time reading old ass French Philosophers sorry

[Anonymous No.]

Take me back, /vt/....to simpler times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHOTlQcrZTQ

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153276
Yes im aware,my sleeping schedule has been pretty bad for 10 years now which started since i got too sick to work so my sleeping schedule is all over the place.

Thats not the only thing i should get help for though and i will by next year the latest if im still arround by then which i most likely will be despite all the annoying whining i do lately i probably would not be arround anymore if i would give up that fast i had worse times then i currently have but lately im just tired thats all there realy is to it and which is why i cant seem to stop with the whining lately and belive me i hate myself for doing so.

Anyway Pink cat cute also someone here give me this vod if you have it,Its been weeks since ive been looking for it but no luck:

>2020-08-01 THANK YOU FOR 100K FOLLOWERS AHHH !singstream | VTuber

[Anonymous No.]

Where did the time go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8kL6AacpCk

[Anonymous No.]

pink cat

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153594
Not that old. The guy could still be alive if he didn't died of AIDS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153253
shouldn't have apologized to schizos, pink cat bad

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152867
>Holo nyanners
I would believe schizos if they were to tell that she would cause Hololive's final yab (ffs) on that timeline.
Not that timeline tho so I guess we should rest easy that everything fell in place nicely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152386
>stop spamming nyanners videos on /a/ shes a stupid attention whore
This was correct though. Nyanners was never /a/ related and spamming her videos onto an anime board was like spamming vtubers on /a/, so of course people would have a problem with it. That doesn't prove her assertion that 4chan hated her though, her videos getting that much traction and support proved that. That whole post seems like cope

[Anonymous No.]

I still think she's a cunt, but I can't deny she's also an entertaining streamer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
POMF POMF KIMOCHI
WHAT'S THAT STICKY STUFF ON ME

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Nyanners told me she's a horrible person, I trust her judgement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154010
Accept her as your guilty pleasure oshi

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153984
4chan hates everyone and everything depending on the day. 4chan also loves everything and everyone depending on the day. That's just part of being on an anonymous image board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
No

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Nah I'll forgive her when she apologizes until then I'm going to continue pretending she doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154010
she's the only non holo I like watching

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154239
>Nah I'll forgive her when she apologizes
>>17153253 now let's hear it

[Anonymous No.]

As a streamer she's okay but honestly she was funnier before she became pink cat.
Her discord server is kinda trash and she hardly interacts with her fans despite constantly being like "I'm going to totally interact with my fans and subscribers even more now that (insert change to discord here) has been done!"
I get the feeling she's pretty manipulative behind the scenes, seeing as everyone in her friend group was kinda pushed aside for other vtubers including people who helped her get her career to the point where it's at.

Personally. I don't really understand why people are so interested in a streamer who does next to nothing with her fans. But I don't hate her, I just don't get her or her fans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154010
>I still think she's a cunt, but I can't deny she's also an entertaining streamer.
This isn't Kiara thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154391
>seeing as everyone in her friend group was kinda pushed aside for other vtubers
I'm not sure how a vtuber deciding to interact more with vtubers is manipulative. And she privately could just still be good friends with her friends just fine.
>Her discord server is kinda trash and she hardly interacts with her fans
Looking at her fans in the discord server I don't blame her to be honest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154391
Discord servers for communities are a mistake

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153253
Hey, I never wished for her to die, I just wished her fans would get murdered for spamming her all the time. /vt/ is like the first board besides /b/ she's ever been on topic discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154391
> Her discord server is kinda trash and she hardly interacts with her fans
That's not true, but I guess there is no way you would know that since you are obviously not subscribed to her

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154766
didn't she force all her fans on discord to clean their room or something today?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154766
A discord server with these kinds of rules can only be the absolute bottom of the barrel trash.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154585
I think cutting people out of your life after you've made it big is a bit manipulative.

And no I don't blame her for not interacting with her fans. I just get tired of her whole "I'm going to interact with my fans more after _____" that she pulls almost yearly.
Maybe fund a project or something cool for your fans instead of trying to pretend that you'll interact more with them. God only knows she has the money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154391
Technically she was always pink cat, but I do miss pre chuuba Nyanners. As a fan from the very beginning, I feel like I'm in a weird form of limbo where I can't comment on or remark on anything "pre" chuuba, unless she does so first. I wound up stepping back as a fan and cheering her on from the background. I do miss the Nyanners that wasn't "on" 24/7, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154860
those aren't the rules although i'm pretty sure you still can't call people retards and tell them to kys

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154885
I mean how do we know they were "cut off"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154860
Kill yourself,you fucking retarded loli loving autist that gets triggered by watching trap porn and yes this is supposed to be a joke dont take this serious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154919
>although i'm pretty sure you still can't call people retards and tell them to kys
but that's like half the fun of online communties

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154766
Actually I was for several years. Im a light blue name now because I saw no point in doing watchalongs where we all joined a muted voice call and watched random stuff on YouTube without saying anything.
Didn't really feel like much of an interaction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Not now, not ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154997
she does a bunch of sub only streams though (not watchalongs) especially nowadays

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154860
Those are mostly just about saying that using slur and being mean are not allowed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152050
>durr pedo
This you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Not unless she actually apologizes. She went all in with SJWs and expects everybody to ignore that.

[Anonymous No.]

She'll probably outlive her critics. I was on /a/ the whole time and didn't know anything about her. Pretty much everyone who comes from here has to make a hard break at some point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154966
Most online communities don't allow that these days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154931
They weren't, he's either assuming or baiting. Many oldfags were publicly transitioned to moderators, or they're still around the discord in some capacity. It is only a partial truth that she's much busier than she was before, and has social "obligations" due to her work that leaves much less room for the friends she used to spend 24/7 with as a dirty NEET.
The real ones are absolutely still around, but obviously I can't say much more without getting into doxxing territory.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155108
Well maybe if the rules just said that using slurs and being mean is not allowed then it wouldn't have been a problem. But no, the rules have to go full virtue signaling and trying to educate the ignorant masses of how wrong they are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154888
That's the thing is she got the avatar and she kinda went full coomerbait for a while. Ditched her loading screens with comments from her friends and "moms".
Stopped doing her song parodies on yt. Stopped reading donos and stopped thanking people for subscribing.

Felt like she changed personalities when she became full chuuba. I cheered her on for a while but after a year and a half of it but it felt kinda meh to continue supporting someone who changed completely after becoming full chuuba.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155127
>>17153253 here, i need to hear it from you now

say you forgive pink cat right now

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155135
I mean she already basically has in a way hasn't she? She's a successful streamer now despite everything that's happened to her

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155254
Don't haters still live in her head rent free?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_RDhSYBvM

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155225
>Stopped reading donos and stopped thanking people for subscribing.
This part is objectively good. The culture of streamers reading out subs and donations is one of the most retarded things ever and just makes the content worse with it's clutter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155239
"Being better" is just progressive language as well. She has to actually admit her mistakes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155343
watch the video, don't just read the title

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155254
I'm not inside her head, but some part of her desires reconciliation. The cultural forces that drove her to her earlier sentiments didn't quite assume the supremacy she thought. I don't think of her either way. She thought everything would go a certain way and it didn't, and her old home isn't a place she can return to. Her new home isn't at all secure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155362
She doesn't talk about any of the things I have problems with her in that video. I never followed her from 4chan, in the past I followed her from youtube, twitter, and formspring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155108
"even if you are autistic or a retard, who was professionally diagnosed with it, you can't use that word here. you can't talk about yourself in that way".

soulless. what the hell is this community?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155407
yeah well that's fine then, this one's for the 4chan bros

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155158
>>17154931
Unfollowed on twitter, left the server, never mentioned publicly or privately.

Also "obligations" ? She streams for a few hours a day every week. She's no busier now than she was pre vtuber. And a lot of people who did help her are never brought up on stream or off stream, including those who ran her server during the many months she didn't even comment in it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155135
If you were on /a/ at the time you'd probably remember how awful the attention whoring tripfags that preceded that era were. Nyanners showed up at a bad time, /a/ wasn't ready to accept something like what would eventually develop into the vtuber concept (and still isn't, really) and had bad history with posters trying to be local celebrities. I'm not going to apologize for calling her an attention whore and telling her to fuck off at the time because that's just how things were back then, but that's as far as it ever got when it came to /a/ from what I remember. I wasn't a fan so I have no stake in the "pedo" betrayal incident, but if she's said sorry for it then it seems to me that there's nothing much to be mad about at this point, it's water under the bridge.
As far as I'm aware /v/ was the worst culprit, anyway, but I wouldn't really know much about that, fuck that shithole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
she didnt change so no reason to let it go

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155438
Wait you can get proffesionally diagnosed for being a retard ? pretty sure if thats the case there are other words for it that dont get used as an insult.

I never seen anyone in her discord that complained if someone mentioned they are autistic (i might be blind) just dont use it in a malisious kind of way and you should be fine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155289
Kinda sure but my favorite part of subbing used to be the free message thatd pop up on screen and be read. I'd usually save it for special occasions like when I had subbed for 6 months and she beat a game or something. It always felt more appreciated that way but I get that it can add clutter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155463
I think I basically missed those threads. I had a habit at the time of ignoring that stuff. Gosh I've fallen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155491
>>17148008
This. Why would we change/forgive if Nyanners don't prove she changed first?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153253
>everywhere is bad, you should try to make it better
>going to hell and try to grow daisies in the flames
I don’t and have never wished death upon her, but I won’t except her to differentiate that now. The suggestion that the ocean of piss should be cleaned up because one person doesn’t like it is precisely the reason to reject all wayward connections, be they current or former /here/chuubas or e-celebs, etc. It always ends the same way once they get in hot water.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155450
If you think all of the work that goes into being a streamer of that caliber is streaming a few hours, it shows how little you actually know.
Especially someone with as many social issues as her, there's a lot of communication behind the scenes every day. Anyone who got the treatment you are describing probably deserved it, because I have personally witnessed her promo-ing her 2view personal friend who has been trying to get into vtubing.
Just because she's not publicly sucking the dick of every moderator who ever helped her doesn't mean she cut off her real, private friends at all. Sounds like groomer talk and she knows full well how to shut that shit down after her past experiences.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153253
dotn try to be a good person, fucking be one

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
I hated SJWs since 10 years ago and I still hate them now. Just because a lot of time has past doesn't mean you'll just forget past transgressions, especially when they have an impact and affect your hobbies and the things you do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155665
isn't she also doing a bunch of stuff for voice acting as well? there have been some days she's had to take a day off to do a bunch of recordings

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155715
>I hated SJWs since 10 years ago and I still hate them now.
>Just because a lot of time has past doesn't mean you'll just forget past transgressions
Uh I'm pretty sure this makes you basically act like a SJW.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155579
I mean I'm impressed if you avoided them all, they were many and prolific. I feel that even if everyone had successfully shunned them all without drama, Nyanners still would've received a cold shoulder for ultimately the same reason, the climate just wasn't viable back then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155683
lol at people here talking about being a good person

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155754
Not really. SJWs want to invade and ruin your hobbies with their sociopolitical agendas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155463
I remember Lanced Jack and Taiga but I honestly have no recollection of ever seeing Nyanners post. I'd only seen her youtube videos. Did she use a trip?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155757
I basically started participating on /a/ in 2011 as a full grown man. At that point I'd been into anime for like 10 years, so if someone talked about some e-celeb my vision went white.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155828
She never posted with a trip, and to my knowledge never admitted to posting any of those vocaroos people would always say was her.
When she did post it was fully anonymous. I believe the only time she publicly admitted to her own posts was when she was contributing to the troll-tan art threads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155828
No, she posted some Vocaroos in like 2009 anonymously, and then hanged out in some /a/ adjacent Skype rooms and IRC channels. Allegedly never posted her own videos anywhere on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155828
I don't remember a trip but I'm pretty sure she was posting anonymously. Or maybe it was just assholes posting her content, in which case I guess I just insulted them and not her. Really the problem was trying to stand out in that environment rather than simply having a trip or whatever, /a/ just wasn't the right environment for it.

>>17155870
I mean it wasn't really about the ecelebs so much as the ecelebs themselves posting and vying for attention all the time. But fair enough, I suppose.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155870
Did you also manage to avoid accelspammer? Because he was fucking everywhere at one point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155877
>any of those vocaroos
You'd have to be more specific since literally every high pitched anime girl voice vocaroo from 2010-2013 was attributed to her. She posted some, sure, but figuring out which is going to be essentially guesswork. Not any of the funny moonman ones though since moonman wasn't a thing back then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154391
Don't most streamers in general not interact with their fans? Pretty much every discord the streamer doesn't even post anything but announcements. I don't see any fan interaction in general from 99% of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155828
Seeing those names throws me back.
I wonder how all those old tripfags are doing these days. I mean, I didn't care for them then but I'm at least mildly curious how they're doing now.

[Anonymous No.]

pink cat bad
but also good

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153253
>I'm sorry for hating 4chan
Yeah, that's not the right thing to apologize for.

She betrayed her fans who made her popular. While there's nothing wrong with changing her content, she should not have attacked them for having liked it. She should instead have thanked them for their support.

Until she apologizes for that, I don't think she should be forgiven.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156077
True, he's speaking from a place of entitlement. She used to interact with her fans to a borderline unhealthy degree. Scaling back to a more "normal" level meant on some level letting down the fans that came to expect her to talk to them 24/7 like she used to do in the formspring days.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156141
if you want an apology for not wanting to be known as the loli queen then you're out of luck sadly since that's literally never going to happen

as for "betraying 4chan" this video settles that

[Anonymous No.]

Pink cat is based and forgiven. She was misled into rebranding away from chan autism by the likes of foreverpandering. Groomed, even.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156216
Im assuming thats why she pretty much made sure to nuke any of her Old Vods ? i wont look for them myself i respect her decision im just curious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156252
Not that anon but I can't forgive her until she proves that she's not an SJW anymore. Which with stuff like this >>17154860 doesn't seem like it will happen any time soon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156252
yeah even if she wanted to do that there's 0 chance of that happening now with how big she is, it's a situation where she can't really bring it up at all

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
You probably have friends and you all have some sort of set values that you all believe in. One day start larping with the opposite of those beliefs. Give it your all and just don't stop doing it. See how they treat you. Do this if you just can't believe how this website treats nyanners.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156298
Many of her old vods were facecam, which she's trying to hard steer away from.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155964
Y-eah, by avoiding things I wasn't interested in. But now I'm an old guy with no friends or life and I hang out here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154391
I'm a her subscriber, but her server seems quite poor. The NSFW section is missing, there are many forbidden words like futa, she interacts sometimes in Discord but very rarely and for quite a short time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156341
Allright that explains that then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
All I know is that nyanner fans should be humiliated, ostracised and beat up

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156395
>futa is also forbidden
This just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156395
>there are many forbidden words like futa
that's not a forbidden word in her server, there was some schizo that kept asking her mods to restrict it but they basically kept telling him to shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156456
>there was some schizo that kept asking her mods to restrict it
Seems like Nyanners is getting the exact audience that she's looking for.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156446
Futa isn't forbidden in her server, someone tried to complain about it and have it get banned but they didn't succeed

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
>>17152032
Where are people coming? From the dramafag video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihtSsTUgzco

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156456
>schizo
>trigger-happy with censorship
That seems about right with the nyanners fanbase
They also groom minors too

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156512
Pretty sure most of them are coming from the vshojo thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156456
What the discord schizo said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156759
Yep, exactly the type of audience I expected Nyanners to want to cultivate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156252
She's free to stop being "loli queen" or whatever at any time. Turning around and hating on her fans is the problem.

She could've said, "sorry, but I can't make that kind of content anymore. Thanks for all your support so far. I hope you'll keep supporting my new content, but I understand if you won't."

>as for "betraying 4chan" this video settles that
There's no such thing as "betraying 4chan". 4chan is not an individual or a hivemind. It's not even a stable collection of people. Today it's these people, tomorrow it's a different group. The only people who matters are her fans, whom she betrayed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156821
NTA but Its only realy that one schitzo ive seen being like that in her discord.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149344
If he does, Muta and Oompaville are gonna turn him into an NFT and scam people with ti

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156983
The thing is her discord rules encourage exactly this type of schizo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149344
I hope he does and on his suicide letter he blames vshojo for it.

[Anonymous No.]

I almost forgave her
But then she and her clan all bowed down before nux instead of cancelling him which is beyond pathetic

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157084
Honestly i might be biased being a discord using fag but most people dont seem like that schizo in there.Nyans discord actualy seems chill for the most part from what ive seen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156891
well regarding that the best you might get is gathering up all the times she's been sad about how she handled it so that people that she didn't want to feel targeted felt targeted but the core of the issue is that she doesn't want to associate with lolicon or lolicons so there's only so much you can expect without major backtracking, so if you're a wronged lolicon it's over

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
I started watching her and Ironmouse and they're actually good. Will continue watching.

Fuck Veibae though. She's just a garbage-tier react streamer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157202
Based. Pink cat and pink mouse good.
Vei is fucking trash though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157198
>>dont seem like that schizo
>talk about whos the best loli in some gacha game
>suddenly 90% of her discord turns into a schizo who can't differentiate between reality and fiction

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157297
>>talk about whos the best loli in some gacha game
>>suddenly 90% of her discord turns into a schizo who can't differentiate between reality and fiction
Did i miss something ? i wasnt in her discord for some time

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157297
>>17157374
im a retard i get what you meant now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
She's too familiar with memes from this board to not be here. Hello, pink cat. Keep winning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148585
Never even acknowledged his, just like everyone else with actual success.

[Anonymous No.]

Honestly, I don't get discord. It's not really a community at all no matter what streamer it is. Just a load of people doing small talk and that's it. I hate small talk and don't see many friendships coming out of these big streamer discords, it's all so boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155225
A new mask necessarily changes a person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155715
>I hate cancel culture so I am gonna cancel people for it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157771
Cancelling cancel culture faggots and its apologists is a positive for everyone
Give them a taste of their own medicine
Likewise the only type of people who should be censored are the ones who advocate for censorship

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157839
>Other people shouldn't do bad thing, unless I do it then it's ok

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156337
>You probably have friends and you all have some sort of set values that you all believe in.
Back when I had friends some of them where Catholic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157944
This but unironically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157944
They are doing that to themselves, that's what they want and it should be given to them. If they want censorship then so be it, let's censor the censorship advocates.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157998
And did you constantly shit on them for being Catholic?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157944
Ironically, now I can just throw back at you one of the most used leftist arguments : the paradox of tolerance. You can't tolerate intolerant people, and SJWs are just that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157189
They apologized for sending haters after him. She and Vei still seemed upset after the whole thing was over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17149172
>she has a vocally anti-sjw friend
There is no one in the west that are Anti-SJW, you nigger! The copening is real. Kys

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158068
>the paradox of tolerance
one of the most retarded arguments ever

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157839
That road just leads into people going crazy and self-canceling themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158078
They apologized because they saw that not everyone was mindlessly agreeing with them and they got cold feet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158131
>going crazy and self-canceling themselves.
Then good. They can keep their cancel bullshit to themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158046
No but that doesn't stop me from having different opinions and sharing them occasionally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158144
nux came out worse from that though, still see people shitting on him to this day even though he didn't deserve it

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158068
Karl Popper was a nutjob.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158226
Well the VShojo girls have a lot more fans, and Nux has a bad reputation from other controversies. He doesn't seem like a bad guy, but people will remember if you fuck around too much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
never

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158297
>He doesn't seem like a bad guy
Yeah because he outed Vshojo to be the actual bad people here

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158129
Yet here it works because you can't tolerate SJWs invading your hobbies, ever. You have to kick them out as soon as possible because they're never here in good faith, they will ALWAYS prioritize their political agenda over your hobby. This has happened so many times in gaming, comics, films, etc. You cannot engage them in good faith. It's like trying to reason with a crazy ape about to crush you, you just get your gun and shoot them on sight. It's the only way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158068
look at this obnoxious retard spouting shit about "durr leftist arguments" in a fucking vtuber board, never post again and unironically neck yourself

[Anonymous No.]

>>17154860
Show me a Vtuber that doesn't have these rules on their discord.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158331
yea but it didnt work

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158297
Dude was a dumbass for trying to fuck with the 3rd biggest EN vtuber org.
If he's smart enough he's hopefully humbled himself after that situation. I doubt it though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155225
Ask Mori how well this turned out

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158357
Most don't have long virtue signalling diatribes about why certain words are problematic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158331
The guy revealed himself to be an asshole that has no idea how to work with anyone in a professional setting, especially on serious shit like that.
Sure Vshojo also was bad in that situation, but let's not act like nux isn't also a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Has only been like 2 years since her interaction with Jerma caused their communities to mix. He quickly found out what kind of person she is and ghosted her, but the damage was already done. All that weird scat stuff ruined his interaction with viewers and his streams. I will never forgive.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
No. Fuck you, Nyanners.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158353
>shill pink cat
>get BTFO
>seething
Another day, another mindbroken vshojofaggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158536
>He quickly found out what kind of person she is and ghosted her
Then how do you explain him raiding her multiple times including fairly recently

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158485
Ok, but they have the same rules, which means they share the same opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158580
What a shame. Have dropped him when the interactions basically stopped for months but the shitty comments wouldn't die. If he really did, he's dumber than he looks. Guess he'll have to find out the hard way, but I won't be there to watch him crash and burn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158331
The management fucked up by not telling him he was acting like a child over a fairly serious issue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158684
I think he also literally said he'd be open to collabing with nyanners too, so it's actually her that hasn't initiated anything yet

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158350
You should look into the four-quadrant audience appeal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158652
A generic no insults rule is not really the same as singling out words like trap that most people don't even care about and explaining why they're "problematic".

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158785
I guess that worked out really well for american comics, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
what's with the sudden comeback/ influx of pink cat threads? what the fuck did she do again?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158746
Crypto millionaires really are just lucky brainlets. You hate to see it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158896
Trap comes from a bad place so maybe she takes more issue with that as she is trying to take some distance from her shameful past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158920
US comics were already dead by the 90s.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158947
deadcucks trying to create a diversion

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158896
>trap that most people don't even care
I think nowadays trap is a big no for most twitch streamers. A lot of streamers put a stop quickly to people using words like trap or tranny from what I've seen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158947
Literally nothing, I think people are just bored

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159089
This is why I hate Twitch with passion. I can say trap all I want with Youtube streamers and Youtube Vtubers. Too much SJW cancer in Twitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158785
Hey man I appreciate the coherent reply, at least you're not sperging out, that's good.
Now addressing your argument : what if someone uses the "the four-quadrant audience appeal" against you by calling you a nazi, what will you do?
In an ideal world we would be able to debate calmly, maybe agree to disagree, and that's it.
In a world where someone like Vic Magnogna gets cancelled for 0 fucking reason, has his entire life fucking ruined by SJW sociopaths, I am not willing to take the risk.
Japan is basically the only place free of this garbage and for that I'm willing to defend their entertainment culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159219
People are called Nazis over nothing all the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158947
She didn't do anything, this is just dramafags trying to go back to old drama now that Mori drama is over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159463
>old drama
Hating pink cat never gets old.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159463
Do people on this board just require having some sort of pink vtuber live rent free in their head at all times?
Is Rosemi the next target?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159653
>Do people on this board just require having some sort of pink vtuber live rent free in their head at all times?
Yes

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159653
People just get triggered by successful white women. One of them is even called Karen

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

i heard veibae is upset you don't like her 17-20k viewer react content followed by league of legends

[Anonymous No.]

>>17159842
Veibae is a different discussion. Even a fair amount of vshojofags seem to be mad at Vei right now. This is a designated pink cat shitting thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17160067
but i want to sex the pink cat not shit on her

[Anonymous No.]

>>17160098
>>17085930 is hoarding the pink cat lewds

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155828
Man I remember those faggots, they culminated into this gay "IRC brigade" which made the board unusable in 2013/14. Luckily mods cracked down on those faggots and nobody takes tripfags seriously anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Hi, Nyanners <3

[Anonymous No.]

>>17163407
that's when /jp/ peaked though, just look at it now

absolutely soulless wasteland of porn and 3d generals

[Anonymous No.]

>>17163461
Tripfags were always cancer whether they were part of the golden age of this site or not. I blame Hiro for hiring reddit mods who don't care about board culture which in turn made /a/ and /jp/ soulless husks of what they once were.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17163535
tripfags are board culture and overmoderation was what killed the jayp of old

[Anonymous No.]

>>17163578
Don't know about /jp/ but tripfags were treating /a/ like their own Twitter accounts towards the end. It may have been good for the culture at first but later on it led to attention whoring at it's finest. Overmoderation did kill /a/ though but in other sectors, like gatekeeping which became a bannable offense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17163857
That's not on tripfags. That's on attentionwhores. Because some tripfags were scanlators that only used their trips to post scanlations. Also, attentionwhores didn't need trips to attentionwhore or shill, like that one time Jewcob shilled Fakku, and when called out, defied a mod, and then half the thread disappeared. Like that one falseflagging schizo here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Even if I did I'll never watch her anyway

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155665
Except here's the thing
Vshojo doesn't require voice lines or songs, they don't require special company mandated events, they don't require mandated sponsorships. Their requirements are next to none. They don't even have to worry about whether they have permission to stream games or monetize them.
Just about the only thing she has to actively work at is scheduling collabs.

The "Communication behind the scenes" is her sitting in a discord call with her friends. She's still the same lazy neet she was before she became a vtuber

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155721
Honestly I can't remember the last time I heard of her being in anything. She was in a paper tabletop style game that kinda flopped and I think she was also in a VN at one point that also flopped.
But I'm fairly certain those both came out before she was a vtuber.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm too old to still be bitter and rant endlessly about someone being a two-faced snake a decade ago, but that doesn't mean I have to like them or forgive them
I don't bother coming to your vshoujo threads to complain but if you're gonna try to tell me I need to let it go I'll gladly say "nah" and go back to my day at least

[Anonymous No.]

Holy shit who cares about this ancient ass drama, post some Nyanners lewds

[Anonymous No.]

I don't care but I also don't watch her anyway.
So it doesn't matter

[Anonymous No.]

>>17165030
Ask in the horny thread or on /aco/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17165030

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
I ain't forgiving her for shit. She threw us under a bus and climb over our bodies for success and by God did it work. I don't hate her like I used but I don't want anything to do with her. This issue is 10 years old and only those who were there really cares. The only people that want to know it now are shit stirrers or they have a problem with her now and wants justification from the past.

[Anonymous No.]

>get choice between making six figures to work 20 hours a week and supporting politics that are on their way out
>choose the money
>autists screech for the rest of their lives from their wage cage

What's so hard about understanding why someone did something?

[Anonymous No.]

I just don't like her content. Never cared about the whole thing.
Also can't stand irony-poisoned people in general. I'm not an edgy teen anymore. I've heard it all before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17165775
>her VA shtick failed so she had to return to streaming

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148062
Your shark wife got fired for being an unreliable drunk that never showed up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166025
You telling me hololive was her window?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17165955

She streams for what? Maybe 20 hours a week? That's a part time job. It's a puppet show for twitch paypigs but it still beats digging ditches.

[Anonymous No.]

I had nothing to do with Nyaggers in her 4chan era and it seems to me the orbiters left over from that era are equally made up of her current supporters and detractors, and are now prowling discords as aspiring groomers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
Let's all be honest here, you faggots are a bunch of losers. She did right by ghosting this pathetic site. If a girl chases after Chad over a pathetic loser like (You), she did the right thing. You faggots don't deserve anything good, you are some geek-weeb failures, trash that society just has to deal with because its too merciful to just end your pitiful failure of a life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166353

Hey Faggots,

My name is John, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day looking at stupid ass pictures. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever gotten any pussy? I mean, I guess it's fun making fun of people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than jerking off to pictures on facebook.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I'm pretty much perfect. I was captain of the football team, and starter on my basketball team. What sports do you play, other than "jack off to naked drawn Japanese people"? I also get straight A's, and have a banging hot girlfriend (She just blew me; Shit was SO cash). You are all faggots who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

Pic Related: It's me and my bitch

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156252
>have shitty group of friends
>they make fun of you, call you names and generally act like assholes, but you can tell that they like you
>grow tired of being treated like shit
>drift away from them
>later that group of friends is infamous
>get accused of being associated with them

All up to here is fine, Nyanners did nothing wrong.

This is where she fucked up
>say they groomed you into being their friend like you had no choice

Basically it's the "sex I regret is rape" mindset applied to online communities.
She found it convenient to tar her former fans as well as antis with the same brush to make her fit in better with a new group. It's understandable why I am cautious about giving full support to someone who has in the past thrown former supporters under the bus when she felt she needed to.
She didn't need to. All she had to say is "I used to hang out on 4chan, and the culture rubbed off on me. I found it less interesting as I matured and I would no longer act that way. Sorry if my old content upsets you, but I'm different now."

No need to say she was cyber-groomed by a forum full of anonymous autists.

I don't hate her. But the whole "she did literally nothing wrong" is simply untrue. 4chan is a shithole. She stuck her fists in and whined when everyone said her hands smelt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166230
Her vtubing job would still be successful regardless of her political opinions though. So her meltdown was unecessary because the goal was to get the VA job and that failed.

>>17166579
This guy gets it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166579
>All she had to say is "I used to hang out on 4chan, and the culture rubbed off on me. I found it less interesting as I matured and I would no longer act that way. Sorry if my old content upsets you, but I'm different now."
Isn't that literally what Joji and Senzawa did at one time?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17156395
She only deleted the nsfw channels recently because of discord partner rules

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166579

It's simply "if i tell people what they want to hear I get more money from simp paypig redditors." Face the fact that she never gave a shit about any of you outside of the money/attention she got. Then it's way easier for you to not be mad and not give a shit about her. Why even give this a moment's thought?

[Anonymous No.]

>>17153253
I'll apologize when she says '4chan made me, lolis are fine and people who think otherwise retarded'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166353
>>17166474
I hope you anons have a nice day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17157944
No shit retard. you hold people to their own standards, not yours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17152386
This deserves to be /vt/ image meme on board similar to froots

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166856
>Nyanners
>standards

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155561
your sub still shows up on screen

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158099
https://files.catbox.moe/97rcs5.mp4
https://files.catbox.moe/ibtpsw.mp4
that's about as anti-sjw as you could expect from a western vtuber, not sure what else you want nigger

[Anonymous No.]

>>17166921
well, standards they claim to have, not standards they really have

[Anonymous No.]

>>17158684
seething this much over trivial things, unironically kys snowflake

[Anonymous No.]

>>17160219
LIES! there's 0 posts

[Anonymous No.]

>>17167052
Eh, Veibae is basically a female anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17155225
This was me. I knew about Nyanners for a while, kind of as a background entity. I discovered her on Twitch early in the Pandemic and started watching when she was using the grey haired model. I enjoyed her content. Then she switched to Pink Cat, and while I thought it would be a good thing, her content changed subtly, but over a long time drastically. Before, she was just a streamer who used a vtuber model, but now she "is" a vtuber. Can't watch her anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17167427
content changes and has to change when you go from 200 viewers to 10000 viewers, anon

you can still find smaller streamers out there doing the 200 viewer content

[Anonymous No.]

>>17167427
>she was just a streamer who used a vtuber model
This, mainly. And not even that, because there are streamers that regularly (not as a one-off thing) use a vtuber model for whatever reason, but have made it clear that they aren't vtubers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17148008
In the civilized world, apologies come before forgiveness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17167772
This.

[Anonymous No.]

>>17167427

What? Her content is still the same and even better now. And if you miss the more chill and personal streams, she does them on her youtube channel every other day

[Anonymous No.]

>>17167772
read the thread retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>17168435
She plays a character now, it's not the same. I'm not against vtubers playing a character but it's got to fit and not be forced. Maybe it's because I witnessed the transition, but its too weird and awkward now.