/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>76242220
I ain’t readin allat

>>76242359
tl;dr a buncha vtubers got tricked into signing into a management company that is legally not a company, and also the owner of said company is making his grandma pay his speeding tickets or some shit. Comically evil shit.

Im glad there's a thread for this rather than shitting up /lig/

>>76242467
This thread actually got made because someone started shitting up /news/ with self replies

>>76242528
I figured it was kind of an unspoken rule to not have extended discussions in /news/. Was it Seth being a fag, or just some autist who couldn't read the room?

>>76242560
Seth jacking himself off or one of his MSM defense force gayboys

>>76242220
>over the 600 mark
/lig/ had 2 threads break 1k posts over this

>>76242610
they were averaging 11 posts per minute too, it was wild

could we get a limerick'd summary for the tl;dr?

>>76242359
Long story short:

MSM, a company a bunch of /lig/ers use for sponsors and such, turns out to not actually legally exist, and its owner, Seth Weinstein, has been accused of spreading vicious false rumors about various vtubers in other groups and with other companies, as well as doxxing some vtubers outright. There's also a story coming out of MSM that he has a Janny /here/ gathering IP's (presumably a lie, as Jannies can't see IPs).

...and he made a girl cry on stream, of course. Can't have a good drama without that.

just here to remind all of you that Vei was right again

>>76242678
>Seth Weinstein
pottery

>>76242655
There once was a man of the tribe
who tried to manipulate lives
his lies fell apart
since he's not very smart
and the IRS is now sharpening their knives

There's been 5 streams about this so far. Krimbo -> Fuu -> Tiffany -> Krimbo again -> Coqui. The first 4 were pussyfooting around the issue because a lot of them didn't want to overstep boundaries and talk about stuff that they didn't have permission from third parties to say, but Coqui's was the biggest one by far since she went deep into her personal issues and actually had a lot of screenshots that told a compelling story that was focused around her and her close friends that had all consented to appearing.

>>76242678
mods have IPs

>>76242814
There was also a stream by Legal Mindset covering Seth message, MSM contract and the NDA.

>>76242808
ha ha yay!

>>76242814
Well, that's just 5 from the MSM crew, I know LM did a stream on the contract too.

>>76242884
Yeah and it said absolutely fucking nothing

>>76242655
There once was a man named Seth
A man which /lig/ hates to death
He scammed some vtubers
Stole the money from those losers
And now he's running out of breath

>>76242836
To be specific, he was claiming to have a janny on his side who fed him IPs. This claim was used to validate different claims of screenshotted dox and anti posts from /here/ which he would show to his talents, telling them that it was Coqui or Meat. The janitor lie was to convince them that he knew who made those posts.

Related, he made up fake emails from "The South Side" (the South Side has no email as it is not an official group or company in any way).

>>76242940
It confirmed a lot from legal standpoint. Clarified where people were wrong and right.

>>76242970
sometimes people casually refer to mods as janitors. if it is a mod, the story checks out. remember that random schizos 4chan onboards have access to your IP. it's more likely than you think.

>>76242940
>Yeah and it said absolutely fucking nothing
It said: "The contract is good and very fair, but because Seth won't pay taxes the LLC is expired so he's in breach of contract and all his talents can sue him for that."

>>76243109
Pockets mods are much less likely to just paying gookmoot outright. Also paying mods implies he's able to shut down discussion which to my knowledge hasn't really happened.

>>76243109
>sometimes people casually refer to mods as janitors
I don't think that's true

>>76242814
I'll copypasta this post from news, since it contained a lot of links to videos and twitters:

Seth, owner of MSM, quote-retweets False with a public statement regarding the allegations.
https://x.com/sethwmad/status/1791953056680059335

Krimbo went live shortly afterward to react to it.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2149298688
During the stream, Meat spoke out in chat, stating that she had given her personal information to one person (within MSM), and found that information leaked online some time later.

MSM member Kabhaal quote-retweeted Seth's statement, speaking in his defense and doubling-down in select replies.
https://x.com/KabhaalVT/status/1791970206358605842
Bird the Robot of Sigrid and Bird retweeted Kabhaal's statement.

Earlier today, Lucy Pyre announced on-stream that she had left MSM due to a "difference in goals and mindsets." She follows Grape of Girls FC and flesh-streamer F1NN5TER in this move, the latter of whom Krimbo claims to be responsible for by sharing information with her.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2148969559?t=00h57m02s

At the end of Aethel's stream today, which overlapped the release of Seth's statement, he addressed the issue by stating that his Castle (fanbase/brand) is not MSM, and that he is consulting with an independent legal team regarding the allegations. He also says that while he has no negative experiences with MSM, that doesn't mean nothing happened, and that he's interested in discussing the blacklist allegations when there are more details.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2149198592?t=02h30m09s

Also:
Legal Mindset's shortened stream on the contract:
https://youtu.be/ibNzt7b5KRQ

...and a summary of Coqui's stream:
https://mega.nz/file/pQlkBBAB#9kJU_jxILGM8lgZ7B4a4qW-qCA10NS5ivJVZd-0Fb9A

>>76242995
LM just talks out his ass mostly. I wouldn't trust him to confirm anything.

>>76243109
If he was paying off a mod, this thread would be nuked off the map and mods would have filtered the keywords of any discussion at this point.
He doesn't have a mod on payroll.

>>76243109
Huh? Wouldn't you need the ISP to tell yoy who the IP belongs to? Unless you're suggesting he had their IPs independently somehow.

>>76242808
KEK

>>76243196
Update the copypasta since Lucy left a couple days ago not "earlier today"

>>76243233
You are correct that he does not have a mod on payroll, but not for the reason given: Nuking these threads off the face of the planet would Streisand effect this whole situation and escalate, so even if he did have a mod on payroll (he doesn't) nuking it would be a stupid idea.

Grimmi is still shilling her sauce lol

>>76243594
>would be a stupid idea
>he says about someone whose practically been confirmed to have doxxed multiple people
>and known to be shitting up threads on here
So he'd do it if he had pocket mods, thanks for proving anons point that he doesn't.

>>76243150
>>76243233
that would only make things worse.

>>76243293
this is what i was wondering. it could have been a mod that wanted an in with his favorite vtuber circle didn't have to be paid. it does not mean seth had correct information by any means, just that he saw IPs in some context that led him to conclusions.

>>76242359
why not? you got time. not like you have streams to watch.

>>76243628
Isn't she locked in on the hot sauce thing? Also probably hoping this all goes away.

>>76243293
>>76243109
>>76243709
Also worth mentioning that even if you have an IP (I'm not saying he did I actually think he's just lying) you can't trace it back to an individual user, just a general service provider and area, and even then changing your IP is dirt easy. IPs are worthless evidence.

>>76243628
What else she gonna do? She needs to sell it.

>>76243674
And by "practically been confirmed" you mean "people that already have problems with him claim it without providing evidence beyond hearsay."

>>76243826
This is also true. If Seth is able to track people on 4chan (and I am reasonably confident he is), it is not being done with IPs or mod staff.

>>76244038
No, he means "things Coqui said confirmed several rrats and lined up exactly with routine schizos in /lig/"

>>76244038
>If Seth is able to track people on 4chan (and I am reasonably confident he is), it is not being done with IPs or mod staff.
It's not all that difficult to recognise typing styles; even in catalog threads it's sometimes possible to recognise the same anon. If he's had prolonged communication with talents via DMs it stands to reason he might be able to pick out certain posts or replies as them.

>weinstein
ahahaha

>>76244038
>If Seth is able to track people on 4chan
The man is a serial liar with failed businesses all over the place and a dodgy tax record, I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth without hard evidence

rratbros?

most level headed take I've heard on this so far
https://twitter.com/shaniachanvt/status/1792583663558779015

>>76244319
Olivia just said on her stream earlier that she got amazing news too

>>76244451
OLIVIA IS PREGNANT, KRIMBO IS THE FATHER

>>76244319
should have zoomed in a little more so we could just see a singular lettuce leaf

>>76244319
imma be real that shit looks tasty

>>76244038
Hi Seth.

Is the hot sauce really just relabeled stuff?

>>76244319
>>76244451
Coqui has been hearing good things as well
https://x.com/C0QUI/status/1792632734306689187

>>76243628
She literally owns the company because seth shackled her to it, what is she gonna do? lose thousands of dollars of inventory put her in debt?

>>76244611
The 3AM stuff just feels so sad to look at now knowing that she was supposed to be in it and seeing the media made for it that never got used.

>>76244637
yes I don't have the direct link but it's been confirmed several times to be white label drop shipped hotsauce

>>76244611

>>76244637
There are tons of companies that do white labeling, yes. Bring them a label design and name and they'll put it on the sauce. Anybody can do it if you can meet the minimum purchase.
There are a lot of industries that do this kind of thing.

>>76244319
>>76244451
>>76244667
Maybe Tobs reached out, apologized and is going to reveal what Seth did to her and announce she's finally joining 3AM

>>76244637
Some anon a few days ago said the sauce is pretty much relabeled but the ingredient amounts are slightly adjusted so it isn't exactly the same

>>76244781
And what the chibi would have been used for.

>>76244637
That's not really that unusual. A lot of supermarket own brand items are made by the same exact producer as branded items and sometimes there's no actual difference.

>>76244287
I agree.

>>76244201
This is also true, but I don't think it's how he was tracking people.

>>76244186
Yes, several of the rrats were confirmed, such as 3am planning on getting Tobs in their group, but there's still no evidence beyond hearsay that Seth doxxed people. That's the only part I'm taking umbrage with.

>>76244637
Yes, /lig/ put that one together. People have been posting their hot sauces and the brain worms bottle even has the same white label while the other two have black
https://x.com/Saucy_Biz/status/1788403108583751928

>>76244825
Thats fucking lame. I thought she at least had some input on the recipe or whatever.

>>76244637
Imagine managing to join a big corpo like Hololive and then deciding to cancel it because someone gave you a hot sauce company which turns out to be all relabeled stuff, they dont even make their own hot sauce they just dropship them.

>>76242220

>>76245010
>Imagine managing to join a big corpo like Hololive
No way was it Holo lmao

>>76244936
>they're legit the same
man that's lame. How much are people paying for these?

>>76245007
addendum to this one: coqui said that her manager also reached out to seth with no reply

>>76245078
the big names who graduated recently still have not popped up despite graduating months ago and with no new major corpo revealing new vtubers and knowing that the ones that graduated as massive Hololive fans and despise Nijisanji, there's only one place they'll go.

>>76245010
Wasn't it a niji wave? They had auditions for that VA themed one didn't they?

>>76245087
$12 a bottle, a $7 markup from the original brand

>>76245007
Using Krimbo for anything remotely serious is a huge mistake.

>>76244876
Meat's post implies there was someone she gave the info to, it wasn't Seth and I guess it was another MSM person and they're just assuming Seth got the information and posted it and could be in denial the unnamed person could be just as bad

Still it's up in the air

>>76245168
man what the hell
if it was at least a special recipe with their inputs

>>76245165
She's directly stated it wasn't Niji on multiple occasions

>>76245237
>it wasn't Seth
There is zero indication that this was not the fact.
>and I guess

>>76245165
Yuniiho is bigger than Niji and she disappeared. She is the biggest Hololive fangirl and always dreamt about getting into Hololive. There's only 1 place such a high profile vtuber can graduate to and that's Hololive. We dont know where S oyapoya went too and she's grimmi's replacement and she is also a Hololive fan.

>>76245237
if it was an industry thing the person she gave it to in MSM could have gave it to Seth because he was coordinating the thing and assumed it was on their boss was on up and up

>>76245168
>people on a server I'm on swore this was some unique flavor

Branding really is that powerful, what the hell.

>>76245237
>Seth got the information and posted it
That seems even more contrived than "Seth doxxed her," and I already have my doubts about that.

>>76243219
And you say that based on...?

>>76245715
because it's seth angry it got publicly stated his contracts are legally unenforceable including the 30 day termination clause

>>76245301
This isn't a shock at all. If you make it big as a content creator you're getting more than a fucking doctor and never had to do 8 years of med school. and people wonder why every kid wants to do it. It's no risk high reward.

>>76245762
Sigrid is also a massive narcissist

>>76245882
anon vtubing is still an entertainment industry. You're going to be hard pressed to find a big name that isn't egocentric.

>>76245071
>>76242678

>>76245757
>the 30 day termination clause
One thing that comes along with the clause--which you see in the contract--is under "termination". MSM is in breach of the contract because the LLC went into forfeiture. Because of this, the "termination" clause kicks in. Assuming the breach is reparable, each MSM talent can send a letter to Seth right now demanding him to re-create the LLC. He then has thirty days to do so (from each of the individual letters); if he fails to do so, the contract is null. This is separate from the issue (which LM pointed out) that MSM couldn't actually enforce a breach against the talents.

>>76245168
You don't buy merch to consume, you buy it to support your oshi. I'm sure those $250 Gura watches are worth all of $10. $12 is kind of a steal for official oshi merch.

>>76246221
They get about $10 on the bottle, too, which is pretty good.

>>76246446
*Seth gets $10 on the bottle, the money goes directly to his PayPal

>>76246221
haha yeah that money goes to seth by the looks of it

>>76246601
We know from the contract that money goes to the managers and they take a 15% cut before giving it to the talents, so that's a little less weird now that the contract is public.

>>76246221
Normally I'd agree, but like others have said you're not giving that money to your oshi. I get what you're saying though.

>>76246601
And here's the post he's referencing at the beginning

>>76242678
That doesn't... sound awful, compared to a lot of older vtuber companies.

>>76246662
Figures... Grimmi's a fairly popular /lig/er and probably fairly well to do, hopefully she can eat this loss and no lawsuits come her way as a result. She seems really attached to Seth though, which is no bueno.

Wonder of Meat will do a similar stream like Coqui

>>76246601
Well, Seth gets $12 on the bottle (all of it) and then sends the talents $10 per--at least, that's what the contract says.

>>76246848
If it helps, the loss is not on her. Even if the entire company goes up the warehouse with all the sauce'll just get bought and repackaged, since Seth obviously won't pay a dime when it defaults unless his meemaw's got the money kek

>>76246889
Probably not, Meat generally does not address anything on stream outside of "things have been busy and rough lately sorry guys"

>>76246744
Seth said (in his video statement on Twitter) that these people were just refunded the whole amount (by canceling the Paypal charge and shipping the sauce).

>>76246889
Meat has a good reason to keep her head down in this situation.

>>76246920
More afraid of what he'll talk her into in the future if her blind loyalty doesn't wane as a result of all this.

The G in Grimmi stands for Groomable.

>>76246920
>suspicious amounts of unlabeled hot sauce bottles appears on craigslist one day

>Seth Weinstein

>>76247079
I mean, even putting everything else aside, he's not doing himself any favors with a name like that.

>>76247019
Well if that happens again, then that'd be purely her own fault. Fool me twice and all that.

I think Seth targeted Coqui's group without realizing how popular Coqui would become and now he's stuck holding the bag.

It sucks that Sigrid and Bird chose the villian's side in all of this. I used to think they were cool.

And what the fuck is Seth's motivation for all of this? How does he personally benefit from doxxing people and spliting people apart? Is he just schizo?

>>76244959

Not gonna lie, the level of false equivalence you're making there is thick as a brick.
If you wanted to equate it to that specific terror group, then you'd maybe have some room to stand on.

But you didn't. Take your meds.

>>76247330
A lot of times when you are doing some shady shit it's easier to hide it if you get people focused on something else, so it probably just boils down to that

>>76247343
I'm pretty sure the point is to make fun of Krimbo for being a retard.

>>76247330
>And what the fuck is Seth's motivation for all of this?
Are you stupid? Dude managed to string along dozens of folks to give him god knows how many thousands upon thousands in cold hard cash despite legally not having any right or sway to do anything on any level.

Guy's a total faggot but if I was him I probably would've done the same swindling bullshit (not the doxxing though, that's retarded) and gotten outta the country the second rumors even began to start swirling with my briefcases filled to the brim.

>>76243233
>>76243594
even if this are samefags (they're not), it doesnt matter if he has someone she can get info from. what are you gonna do about it? bitch about it? permabanned and crickets.
Corruption is a human trait, it's everywhere, if some share info and hang out in different places, why would you care?

>>76247016
why?

>>76247541
I understood the swindling part of it, that's why I didn't mention it. I specifically asked about the other parts of it. The other parts of it seem counterproductive to pretending to be a management group.

>>76247330
>doxxing people
He doesn't. Meat's claim that she tried to join MSM and then got doxxed by MSM for no reason doesn't pass the sniff test. MSM takes 15% of revenue from streamers, they would want Meat to join so that they could take her money. Why would they doxx her?
>spliting people apart
In theory, isolated people are easier to manipulate and control, but the sheer number of people he'd have to manage closely makes that unlikely. Not impossible, mind you, and he may have only chosen to isolate specific individuals, but that doesn't scan either.

I see Seth found this thread lmao

>>76247803
Oh, then probably because he's a retard who doesn't know how to scam people out of their money properly. You milk and flee, not milk and milk and milk and get caught.

>>76247821
>Why would they doxx her?
Deleting competition

>>76248087
He wasn't "milk and milking", he was milking then kicking the cow for no reason.

>>76248013
yep, he is here

>>76248239
Eh, the analogy wasn't meant to be ironclad.

>>76248093
Has anyone in 3am's ccv range quit after getting doxxed? That doesn't seem like a likely motivation. It's more like "annoying and stressing out your competition."

Wait.
So someone named Tobs was gonna join Olivia's microcorpo but MSM interfered with that at the last second... somehow?

Seth - you do realise that you can't hope to change the opinion of anons by arguing in these threads, right? If an entire army of Kpop fans is incapable of swaying opinion about an ex-Niji you're not going to be able to accomplish it.

Why waste your time?

So the dude couldn't just be normally evil and steal money, he also had to succumb to his impulses and be cartoonishly extra evil for no reason?
Is this dude Dick Dastardly from Wacky Races?

>>76248364
NTA but doxxing someone is basically the best way to scare someone off the internet. Doesn't matter if it succeeds or not, but that's the intent behind 100% of doxxes.

>>76247541
>despite legally not having any right or sway to do anything on any level.
Well, he had the right to do so--no legal issues at all--if he just kept the LLC running or transferred the contracts to himself. So far as I can hear, esp. from Aethel's side, he seems to have actually been providing real services, so it's not a total scam.

>>76243996
This is the only part I'm actually interested in. How are her prospects so far? Is it selling well now, or is she totally fk'd?

>>76248380
Tobs said she was forced to choose between joining MSM or joining 3am and went with MSM. There are talents that have joined MSM and other corpos at the same time and nothing in the leaked talent contracts requires someone to avoid joining other groups simultaneously. Coqui showed the conversation on stream, so we know Tobs did say that, and said that Tobs made that decision because Seth was badmouthing and blacklisting 3am.

"MSM won't let me join 3am" sounds like something Tobs made up to avoid confrontation. Whether she wanted to avoid 3am and end their friendship while avoiding confrontation because of Seth badmouthing 3am or because of something else remains to be seen.

>>76245715
Did you watch any of his Dokibird stuff? He made a bunch of claims about things Doki could supposedly sue for, but another lawyer who's Canadian and actually specializes in this stuff went through and pointed out how almost everything he said was wrong. I can't remember all of the specifics, but he was wrong on things as fundamental as whether the case could be heard by the courts, (it couldn't, it would go through some sort of Canadian employment commission) and the possible penalty, (LM said potentially hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars, actually it's capped at something like $20k CAD by law). Oh, and since Niji is a Japanese company, there would be no way to enforce these judgments. I mean, it should just be obvious that an American lawyer living in Thailand who mostly (afaik) does visa work is not actually an expert at Canadian workplace harassment law or Japanese defamation law, these are complex subjects that take at LEAST months of study to even have a basic grasp of, yet LM casually makes bold claims about them despite having investigated the issue for hours at most, and makes glaring errors as a result.

If you want to watch this guy as entertainment, go ahead, but it's not serious legal analysis. What Seth did at the very least should be illegal, maybe he'll pay for it, maybe he'll find a way to weasel out of it. I don't really know and the word of some clout-chasing lawtuber really has nothing to do with it.

>>76248502
It's what happens when you're callous, stupid, AND need your (you)s

Doxxing and driving wedges between people that could help your company grow just seems like shooting yourself in the foot. Was this dude just jerking off to the unnecessary misery, no matter the potential cost?

>>76249064
.........................O U C H.
That's fucking bitter. I actually know one of 'em and watch one other quite regularly. They're pretty sweet girls. Sucks to have that happen.

>>76247016
>Cunty

>>76249064
>Tobs said she was forced to choose between joining MSM or joining 3am and went with MSM
>"MSM won't let me join 3am" sounds like something Tobs made up to avoid confrontatio
she literally never said any of this
see >>76244912

>>76248776
You can provide all the services you want, but when you sign people into a contract for a company that does not exist and try to keep them trapped in it then it's worth less than the paper it's printed on.

>>76247343
good day to you too Comrade, surely the revolution is near

>>76249197
If you're an entrepreneur you probably have a massive ego and feel personally slighted by people you perceive, rightly or wrongly, as standing in the way of your success. Probably justifies it to himself by exaggerating whatever they did to upset him as attempted sabotage and sees them as the instigators, may even believe his own claims of them being doxxers.

>>76249064
Come to think of it has Tob ever actually had a sponsored stream?

>>76249630
yes, both before and after joining MSM

>>76249197
Yeah, that is what bugs me about Coqui's version of the story: She expects me to believe that a greedy jew who's cheating on taxes to have more money is throwing away money to interfere in her friendships? Even if that were true, there would need to have been something to motivate Seth to burn potential money out of hate for her specifically. What is that "something?" Is it related to why people started avoiding 3am?

>>76249378
You know what? You're right, and I apologize. I phrased the prior post poorly because I misremembered some details, but I interpreted "I would feel awful to commit to something I cannot be 100% there for" as her choosing between MSM or 3am and picking MSM, which I think is a reasonable interpretation of the events. We also do know that Tobs avoided Coqui afterwards, and that Coqui blames Seth for badmouthing her to Tobs.

>>76249075
Sister... The Canadian lawyer only countered on three points, two of which he took back after the contract was leaked, and repeatedly said LM was "mostly right".

>LM said potentially hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars
Which LM never said.
>Oh, and since Niji is a Japanese company, there would be no way to enforce these judgments.
Which LM repeatedly said, as part of his reason for repeating his montra "Doki should not sue, it ain't worth it."

Not that I'd take anything LM says during his side hustle as legal advice, but he usually ball parks it pretty well, and deals with literally thousands of international employment contracts as his main job.

>>76249947
>Why would Seth go out his way to kill off a a potential rival company
It really is a mystery

>>76249075
Yeah. And I know you sure didn't watch him.

>>76249978
Nah, he didn't just counter on three points, he explained how LM just fundamentally didn't understand the process he was opining on (PIPPA or whatever, and the BC equivalent). He's friends with LM so it was hardly a call-out, but he pretty effectively demolished his claims and showed that he just didn't know what he was talking about. I will give you that LM did say that a lawsuit probably wasn't worth it, (this is standard lawyer advice except in the most egregious cases), but he also dangled these tantalizing bits about how maybe she can sue to dramabait and boost engagement.
Anyway, you can call me a nijisis or a Seth defender if you want, I just personally am floored by the fact anyone takes this stuff as serious legal analysis when he's clearly just throwing shit out there without even reading, let alone studying the case law on, the subjects he's talking about.

>>76249075
Anon...you can't be found non-compliant with Canadian law and still hire Canadian citizens. I don't know how many leaf livers are still left in Niji, but all of them would have to be let go.

Outside of a couple sponsors for dogshit games and a drop shipping hot sauce company, do we know what Seth has actually done for the talent to keep them around?

>>76242220
Is Geega still part of this?

>>76249496

Entrepreneurs are sociopaths. That is how they think. They are fundamental to fascism. That’s why Trump is the bigly man he is, malignant narcissism.

>>76250827
As far as I know all of the employment contracts were in Japan, which is why Doki had Japanese lawyers being the intermediary between her and Niji. The Canadian employment commission can't reach over the Pacific and somehow make them stop signing contracts with and paying money to Canadians, nor would they try to. This is what I mean about LM dramabaiting, he convinces people of nonsense like "DOKI CAN GET ENNA AND MILLIE FIRED GUYS!!!!!!11" when it's just total nonsense.

>>76250960
Sigrid and Bird were apparently enticed to join by being promised a cartoon. Of course that never happened but I guess they're still clinging onto the idea

>>76251300
yes
grape peaced out though

>>76249947
>motivate Seth to burn potential money
Conartists don't care about debt. What is an extra few grand ontop of the tens of thousands they already owe? They're never going to pay it back so it's just free money so long as the feds don't catch him. People always wonder how conartists go for so long before being caught. Its because the government doesn't care until you fly too close to the sun and rip off the government too much.

>>76251300
She's still MSM for now but funny enough the clip of her talking about how good MSM was to her vanished from youtube. I think she's waiting to see how everything plays out

>>76251413
Makes you wonder how Seth keeps their dream still alive. Like does he wave a piece of production art he commissioned on fivver in front of them every couple of months?

>>76249397
>it's worth less than the paper it's printed on
And it's a PDF! But yeah, the contract-can't-be-enforced also applies to money the talents kept which Seth should've got, which is fun.

>>76251339
>Canada can't prevent a foreign entity from doing business within their borders
uhuh...sure

>>76250960
We know he promised SigBird a cartoon that never materialized and that he would commission artists (and possibly riggers) that he may not have paid afterwards.

>>76250371
If this were something he did to rival companies, then why did it only happen to 3am? If he thinks doxxing rivals is a good idea, then you would expect a pattern of behavior where he did that to every rival when the opportunity arose. I haven't heard anything about that except for the talents in 3am. This, again, brings up the question "What did 3am do to make this happen to them and only them?" Were they the ONLY TALENTS in a rival company that applied to MSM? That's possible, but not plausible.

>>76251474
Even if what you were saying were true, it's not related to what I brought up. Seth's actions are not gaining additional debt, they are losing additional revenue. He WANTS revenue.

>>76247330
>what the fuck is Seth's motivation for all of this?
>>76247821
>Why would they doxx her?
>>76248502
>and be cartoonishly extra evil for no reason?
>>76249197
>Was this dude just jerking off to the unnecessary misery, no matter the potential cost?
>>76249947
>there would need to have been something to motivate Seth to burn potential money out of hate for her specifically

It all makes sense when you consider Coqui's statement that Seth has been "giddy from the fact that 4chan has finally noticed him". He's a /wvt/ crab bucket schizo. Those people don't need any real motivation or personal slight to start attacking someone, people in that thread will wish death on a chuuba purely because that chuuba is getting discussion and they're not. This shit flinging got so bad that it was one of the motivations for the creation of /lig/, /wvt/ was just completely unusable with how often even the mention of specific chuubas would activate schizos that would sperg out for the rest of the thread. And considering that South Side was the most popular group in /wvt/ that got the most discussion and was thus able to lift themselves up to /lig/dom, it makes sense why Seth would have it out for them.

He's not viewing this from the perspective of a business man, he's viewing this from the lens of a 4chan schizo

>>76251714
What do you expect them to do? Intercept bank transfers from Niji to Millie? Block superchats to Millie on Youtube somehow? You really think this is something Canada can and would do if Doki complained to them about harassment?

>>76249075
LM stated he was not an expert on Canadian law, and offered the perspective on what would happen if it showed up in American courts, from the perspective of Business Law. Canadian Lucius IS a Canadian attorney that works with those things regularly, so he would of course have a deeper understanding of the process involved.
However, both lawyers, as well as basically every other legal expert that said anything about it, heavily agreed on the most important part: Doki would not want to sue, and Niji could (and SHOULD) settle out of court if they wanted the problem to go away.

>>76251580
that clip wasn't posted by her either way so I still don't understand why anons keep bringing this up as if it meant anything

Any new info after the Coqui stream?

>>76251825
Seth wanted full commitment from SigBird and Tob. In his mind Southside and 3am were getting sponsorships that he could be getting. So he poisoned the well to get them to pick sides. Say what you will about the coffee food truck or ramen they're at least real sponsorships. The hotsauce is just drop shipping with custom labels that the talents have to pay for themselves. Now if you were in both MSM and 3am which would you go with? The one that costs you money and you have to pay to store, or the one that costs you nothing and you get revenue. That just ruins the illusion that Seth is doing anything for his talents. They'd be asking him why he can't get them this one as well.

>>76251874
Reminder that Seth was, by his own admission, 21 in 2017, meaning he's both a summerfag and an election tourist.

>>76252346
Just froggy collabing with Grape after everyone said she was blacklisting. It happened so suddenly now that it makes the blacklist feel even more confirmed like they're doing it out of damage control

>>76252353
Then Tob would never have chosen MSM over 3AM. Which begs the question, what is Seth doing for Tob that 3AM couldn't?

>>76251339
I'll take "Things Legal Mindset never said" for $500, Alex.

The PIPA thing even LM was dubious about and repeatedly said one would have to defer to a Canadian lawyer. The only real point of contention Runkle had with LM was with venue, which by cascade affected other things, but that's a legal opinion Runkle reversed on after seeing the contract. Just because a contract says you're an "independent contractor" does not make it so, whereas this contract demands far too much control and even has an exclusivity clause, which is straight out for an independent contractor in any country. If Canada thinks you're being treated as an employee, you're subject to Canadian employment laws, rights which you can't legally sign away, even if your contract specifies another venue. Runkle said most of the contract would be void due to that.

>>76251874
/lig/ was a split from /vsj+/ back in 2021

>>76252201
Okay. So if I state I'm "not an expert on Coqui" and then proceed to say a bunch of totally false shit about her and her content anyway, is that okay? Or am I just talking out my ass?

>>76252353
>Seth wanted full commitment from SigBird and Tob
WHY
You are not addressing the important question: WHY THEM. Why is he OK with Geega in VShoujo but NOT ok with Tob collabing with 3am? Why is Tob sticking with MSM if any of what you said was true? MSM talents interact with more than just Southside. Your explanation makes zero sense when you look at the whole picture and still fails to address what makes 3am/Southside different from the rest.

>>76252647
False equivalence. Please try your analogy again.

>>76252511
At the time whatever Seth promised would have been more than she thought she'd be able to get by forming a group with her friends. Enough to go full menhera and believe board posts with a trust me bro I have pocket jannies.

>>76252626
January 2022. And yes, /vsj+/ was another source of motivation for the creation of the thread. But they were only in /vsj+/ in the first place because /wvt/ was inhabitable for them

>>76246764
You're joking right? It's fraud mixed in with harassment at the very least if true.

>>76252655
>>76251874

>>76250737
>the case law
Most of LM's analysis comes from his knowledge of contract (and the common law and general practices relative thereto), not from the specific laws of any forum. The less LM knows--especially about Canada's government-run employment-dispute forum--the more he equivocates, just like a real lawyer.
>maybe she can sue to dramabait and boost engagement
Don't you have to self-doxx to sue? I don't remember him saying anything which would encourage her to sue, as opposed to a general report of ANYCOLOR's notoriously poor workplace environment.
>LM did say that a lawsuit probably wasn't worth it
The main reason for this claim was (1) the small amount of money involved (in effect) and (2) the delaying tactics ANYCOLOR's lawyers would use. As to
>there would be no way to enforce these judgments
since ANYCOLOR does business in Canada, they could be enforced against on that ground. I don't know the details--although I know more on this ground under U.S. law--but I don't think the fundamentals are different. Where a man, operating as an incorporation, does register for his right to business, he may, by the laws of that state, be subject to be served, by the agent appointed therefor for such person, for any cause, where allowed by statute, without offending the Constitution. Ins. Co. v. Gold Issue &c. Co. (1917).

>>76242220

>>76252621
I actually sort of agree with you about the independent contractor stuff, I found what he was saying there dubious (from what I know about US, not Canadian, 1099s). If he reversed himself on that, good.
All of this is besides the point though. LM didn't know the first thing about PIPPA/PIPETA and then proceeded to confidently say a bunch of shit about it. That makes him untrustworthy. The fact that he caveated it is irrelevant, if he doesn't understand it at all, he just shouldn't speculate on it.

Why are you letting things get derailed with nijishit?

>>76252097
The harassment isn't nearly the first problem. The company treating them like contractors when they clearly have an employment contract in all but name would disqualify Anycolor from existing in Canada by itself. And they absolutely could tell all Canadian banks from accepting transactions from these accounts associated with Anycolor.

>>76252655
Ego is probably why anyone isn't backing down. the other option is fear of doxxing. Do you really feel safe walking away from a conman who has all of your personal data, and if there was a mean girls clique in MSM your discord posts. Seth is garbage with blackmailing Coqui. He blew his load way too quick. Posted her images, videos, name, age, after that was all out coqui didn't have to fear seth anymore.

>>76252990
>Why are Dramafags Dramafagging

>>76252811
>2022
Yeah, my mistake. Also amazing how much of a shithole that thread turned out to be from what I've seen. At least I got a couple of interesting indies I watch to this day out of it.

>t. used to go there from april '22 until giving up on early '23

>>76252486
I'm holding out hope that Froggy was just nicely spoken to by a shitty person and made to believe things that weren't true. Maybe she's even already on her way to being unbrainwashed from this if she uncancelled a planned and then canceled collab with Grape. Love that ridiculous autist and she has the absolute best stream intro of any vtuber I've seen and it's not even close.

>>76252282
>she didnt post the clip even though it was her saying how good MSM was
it literally doesn't matter who posted the clip, doesn't change the content of the clip
her being a clout chasing goblin isn't a big secret for anyone who watched her orbit her way into vsj

>>76251874
>giddy
Yeah, it's average scam artist, wants a quick cash and doesn't like getting the spotlight. It's one of the so many that exists on entertainment, just that this one focused on streamers. Hopefully he fucks off to scam someone else soon, but he's definitely not the last one of those faggots that we'll see interacting with chuubas.
>>76252655
NTA but probably just bias, vshojo is the biggest vtubing twich corpo, so it'd be nice to have someone there to show off, even if it meant losing control over Geega.

>>76251339
Here you have it mixed up: the contract dispute is limited to Japan; the workplace environment/driving-her-to-suicide-twice claims, which are of course not required by nor related to the contract, fall under the law of where Selen was--that is, Canada.
>nonsense like "DOKI CAN GET ENNA AND MILLIE FIRED GUYS!!!!!!11"
He specifically didn't say this. In fact, in response to people suggesting to this in his chat while he was streaming, he said that contracts can only be enforced by the other party--Selen would have no power to enforce ANYCOLOR's putative contracts with Ellen, Millie, or any other.
Methinks you are speaking based off of what you have heard rather than the actual stream, which you seem to have not actually watched. But surely everybody on this board watches streams, right?

>>76252486
ironically grape is ex-msm

>>76253118
thank you for reaffirming what I said

>>76252935
>>76253050
>>76252721
Your theory involves ascribing completely irrational self-destructive behavior to every actor except those inside 3am, especially to those without a history of irrational self-destructive behavior.

Do you understand why that's a sign of a bad theory?

>>76253033
Anycolor does not exist in Canada. It exists in Japan.
>And they absolutely could tell all Canadian banks from accepting transactions from these accounts associated with Anycolor.
Yeah, totally, Canada is going to treat Anycolor like a fucking drug cartel because an anime woman was treated unfairly. Reasonable claim.

>>76253218
point is she's an idiot trying to pretend she was never on the side of MSM when evidence to the contrary exists
if you want to simp over her, vsj+ is a few doors down

>>76246764
It's basically WACTOR level sans the suicide, save that he, so far as we know, didn't demand anyone stop taking their medication, and he kept it mostly it below board. ...and I don't think even WACTOR was accused of spreading career ending rumors about competing talents/groups (not that I'd put it past them).

It's not quite as bad as Nijisanji, as at least there's still a profit motive involved behind all this evil vs. a company that's lost its mind entirely, but if the company survives this PR shitstorm, it's almost certainly destined to collapse into a similarly yes-man induced cult.

>>76253329
>point is she's an idiot trying to pretend she was never on the side of MSM when evidence to the contrary exists
this never happened

>>76252655
Seth also shit talks Mythic so it's not just 3am/southside. Seth was shit talking mythic to mythic talents at cons, he can't keep his mouth shut in public because he thinks it makes him look cool and powerful. You're also being way too autistic over its only these groups of people why not vshojo. Probably because vshojo is bigger than him. He's trying to make himself a buffer between vshojo and all other groups.

>>76253329
I at least thought that was known. Each time I tried giving her a watch she was in the midst of some rant about networking or making content.

>>76253419
Shit-talking isn't doxxing.

How does Coqui feel about vtubers in South Side vocalizing support for MSM chuubas like Sigrid and Tob

>>76253243
Who did I ascribe irrational, self-destructive behavior to by asserting that Seth is an old /wvt/ schizo other than Seth himself?

>>76253585
It might. It's apparently not a big deal to him. Meanwhile, he's been accused of doxxing and threatening to dox others so often that some are literally in such fear of being doxxed by him that they preemptively doxxed themselves.

>>76253402
>he, so far as we know, didn't demand anyone stop taking their medication
He did deny access to medication by promising one of his artists health care and then never delivering

>>76253243
>Do you understand why that's a sign of a bad theory?
wtf are you talking about? If a man is in the yard covered in shit and eating a live cat, I'm not going to question what is wrong with the home owners who are calling the cops. People can be victims of insane people. You are under the assumption that Seth isn't a sociopathic narcissist. Insane people don't need rational motives it's why they're insane. Next you're going to tell me the people at WACO and Heavens gate were all normal.

>>76253179
>Here you have it mixed up
I think you have it mixed up, there's two different conversations going on here.
>Methinks
fag
>you are speaking based off of what you have heard rather than the actual stream, which you seem to have not actually watched.
I admit I do not remember every single detail of of the 50+ hours of streams LM made about Doki a few months ago. But you still have people, in this very thread, repeating shit like "Anycolor cannot do business in Canada if they violated Canadian law", something directly from an LM stream, as if it's relevant to anything in the Doki case. This is why I don't take him "confirming the MSM legal aspects" seriously.

>>76253329
She didn't say that. The clip wasn't posted by her it was posted by someone else. And the consistent thing everyone has been saying all along is that Seth kept his big names out of all this shit because if THEY went against him then his ass was cooked. He could handle the backlash of a 2view going against him, and indeed he did when he let a bunch of them go without warning. What he couldn't handle is that coming from the likes of Aethel, Numi, and yes, Geega. Aethel also mirrored the assumption that he had zero clue any of this was going on.

>>76253671
Coqui vocalized support for MSM chuubas like Sigrid and Tob, she made that clear during every step of her stream and even Krimbo said it a few times. Christ, her stream ended with her begging Tob to reach out saying that she misses her, she doesn't hold ill will for any of the MSM talents

>>76253585
3am members have been doxxed on here multiple times. His shit talking of mythic and 3am at cons is just showing how arrogant his ego is.

>>76251670
I really wish we knew more about the details of that. Surely they didn't think they'd be able to waltz into Adult Swim or wherever and just get a show

is his name really seth fucking weinstein

>>76253259
Unlike pagpag-land, Canada actually cares about employment rights.

>>76254099
even before that stream Lone Star Colt has nonstop signaled support for so many MSM streamers

is he a plant?

>>76253873
Tob and SigBird.

>>76253951
>It might.
>Shit-talking MIGHT BE doxxing.
No, it isn't, you retard.

>>76253997
I am under no such assumption. Sociopaths and narcissists have coherent self-interested motivations. It could be the emotional rush of hurting others, it could be money, it could be any of a number of things, but they aren't plot-convenient brainless actors that engage in self-destructive behavior purely to make someone's theory work. They have goals, interests, wants and needs and seek those out. They are more comfortable hurting people to get what they want, but they still have things they want.

>>76254138
>He spoke poorly of Mythic at a convention which is why he's only tried to blacklist 3am
Do you understand why what you said doesn't make sense or address what I said?

>>76251580
>>76252282
>>76253118
This clip? https://files.catbox.moe/3sxarc.mp4

>>76254519
How does calling Seth a /wvt/ schizo ascribe irrational, self-destructive behavior to Tob and SigBird?

>>76254303
>Surely they didn't think they'd be able to waltz into Adult Swim or wherever and just get a show
Even ignoring how they signed on with a company that didn't exist because that research would'va been hard for any vtuber to do, as they're all stupid to some degree, those two are extra stupid because this is almost exactly what they expected.

"Get a cartoon"? Nigga please, Kizuna Ai didn't even get one until after she died and it was shit, Niji's was a cooperational one with Dwango that was shit, Holo doesn't have one at all unless you count Hologura or the aforementioned Dwango one, so why would anyone who isn't pulling 5views ever delude themselves into thinking they'll ever got a slot on any TV station? Just put together the money for PV's or learn to animate yourself like 99% of other vtubers who want animated works.

>>76254479
Coqui and Meat both have signaled non-stop support for MSM streamers, Coqui even showed evidence of them continuously reaching out during her stream

>>76254519
Take the next boat to Lithuania already Seth, that's the only way you'll escape the IRS.

>>76253951
To be clear, Fuu didn't dox herself out of fear that Seth would do it. She did it because she grew up in the schizo early /b/ era of the internet and knows that if you face the public in any literally amount someone is going to try and dox you. So she put her own name and the city she lives in out there publicly so that it couldn't be used against her to scare the shit out of her if she actually tried to stay anonymous.

What matters is that she mentioned she did this to Seth, and Seth's response was that doxing was no big deal. And that Tiffany was the one who was scared of what Seth could do if she spoke up against him, knowing that he had her info. Like, imagine any place you've ever worked for. Even if you have a shitty boss, you've probably never considered that your boss can dox you at any time since they have all your personal information. You have to be a special kind of shitty for that thought to even enter your mind in the first place, and it's what kept Tiffany from speaking up.

>>76254688
I mean, even people you could've expected to have done their due diligence like geega got roped into this

>>76254566
It's amazing how far you can get in life just by having the right attitude and instilling in people's mind that you have their best interests at heart.

>>76254004
>Spends most of reply not talking about the actual points and ignoring most of my post for the (You).
And as for LM's "hours of streams," I only watched the one--the one where he actually had the contract in front of him.
It's also not really LM's fault if people continually misinterpret things he says especially when he's corrected the misconceptions on multiple occasions. I haven't seen anything LM said controverted except for things where he explicitly said he didn't have information to make a definitive statement.

>>76243109
Mods never give IPs out unless I think there is a court order or warrant, so unless Seth is a fed he has no such ability at all. Jannies as stated can't see IPs, and mods are a different type of staff, they are not bound to any specific board and don't fuck around like that. I have been using this site for over 15 years and I have never, ever seen a 100% confirmed case of what he claims nor seen any evidence of it in all known janny leaks. The staff here just do not do that.

>>76255163
>The staff here just do not do that.
Yeah, they get paid too much for that!

>>76254566
>>76255022
This is another good example: https://files.catbox.moe/s0b0yo.webm

>>76255163
like a million others have said and you're too stupid to get
if he managed to somehow pay off someone to get IPs, it wouldn't be jannies. it wouldn't be mods. it'd be the guy who
>LITERALLY
>FLED
>JAPAN
for getting the cops on his ass for selling data out the wazoo.
and besides a lot of it just feels like seth trying to be an internet tough guy and pretending like he has any sorta power, common trick of his

>>76255127
>And as for LM's "hours of streams," I only watched the one--the one where he actually had the contract in front of him.
Fucking insane you just accused me of not watching streams, when you're the one who didn't watch them. All of the claims I'm discussing occurred in earlier streams than the one you watched - no wonder you think he "never said that"!
>I haven't seen anything LM said controverted except for things where he explicitly said he didn't have information to make a definitive statement.
Admitting you don't know what you're talking about does not excuse you for saying blatantly false shit. In fact, it makes it worse!

>>76255701 (You)
>Doesn't respond to any claims at all, just keeps attacking me.
You are well versed in the art of forum discussions, if I can give you no other compliment.

It was weird when coqui said the one message from seth was that We need to keep everyone safe especially Grimmi. When they were talking about the blacklist and ducking out of collabs

What's he cooking

https://x.com/king_kriminal/status/1792691116615365089

>>76256360
he really enjoyed that lunch salad

>>76255343
>I have to - uh - play Minecraft right now
Grimmi is a sweetheart. I'd trust someone who said he was protecting her.

>>76255546
You mean Hiro, the owner? He is a millionaire, I don't think Seth has enough money to even get his attention nor would he trash his reputation (again) to help a shitter fuck with one of the largest boards on the site (and the only really-successful recent addition to the board roster in many years). /vt/ is worth more than Seth guaranteed.

>>76257148
>/vt/ is worth more than Seth guaranteed.
Given his level of debt, your average homeless man is worth more than Seth.

>>76256360
he said he's going live at 7CST, is that today or tomorrow? because he's late if it's today

>>76258189
Doesn't he make a lot of cash with the 15% cut?

Is Tob a complicit bitch or a victim
I genuinely can't tell with all the false flagging

Juniper signed with MSM and she used to be a paralegal, right? Wouldn't she have caught the potential breach of contract if it hadn't been rectified by the time she signed?

>>76249075
With Legal Mindset his culture politics is starting to leak into his v-tuber and more neutral topic coverage. The guy can not go a stream now without bring up communism from no where, ranting about the government and taking pot shots at left leaning political people. But then LM kind of goes against his own ideals when it isn't as convenient? Ex: whispering that his audience doesn't need any government but unchallengeable government powers are fine for immigration?; free market principles, capitalism or a business' rights aren't considered because Kirsche wants something? Taking time for research but watches only one video of three for the Moist Critical stream; says he will respect those who don't name call him and explain their points yet watches a video of two guys giving their take on a contract with their reason then disparages them.

LM can bring up good points but take it with a big grain of salt if he disagrees with his focus politically or just check multiple sources.

>>76259208

>>76259146
Here's the thing right: That contract was solid and looked extremely legit. If they had an active LLC, you'd assume it was totally on the up and up, and unless you researched the LLC specifically there's no way you could have known it was in forfeiture. It'd be a really easy mistake to make, even for people with knowledge of law

>>76259208
I think the best one is the one he started talking about Moist Critical, and basically calling him an idiot for suing the government over migration stuff and the chat started to turn on him kek

>>76257148
>He is a millionaire
yes, and he was even richer back when he still owned 2ch and shares in livedoor and motherfucking Dwango, the people who own niconicodouga.
at his absolute highest point in life he pulled that shit, you think he's making more money now? 10 grand is 10 grand.

>>76259146
A paralegal is not a lawyer anon. While she may be able to decipher some of the legalize and see it as a standard contract she wouldn't know if Seth was delinquent on his LLC.

>>76258973
Anyone that ditches friends for money is kinda scummy but I wouldn't call her entirely complicit, from how it's been presented it seems she's been taken for a ride too.

>>76254519
>>76254622
That's what I thought

>>76259558
Only one that really seems scummy from all of this is SigBird. Tobs cut them off, and that's bad but SigBird double-crossed, engaged in the shit talking, may have had a hand in blacklisting and spreading shit with Seth, Sigrid is abusive towards Bird, and even prior to MSM Sigrid was making crazy demands of Southside and makes it obvious at every opportunity that she is a ladder climber that will sell you out if it gets her anything

I heard that Seth Weinstein lives in his car and I really want this to be true. Is there sauce anywhere for this?

>>76251874
>it was one of the motivations for the creation of /lig/
/lig/ is an offshoot from /vsj+/ though
It's only within the last year or so that /wvt/ retards have infested /lig/ to promote their low-3view oshis because whoever wrote the original OPs for /lig/ decided to say "down to 100 ccv is fine" instead of actually enforcing the LARGE requirement.

>>76252811
/vsj+/ never housed /wvt/ refugees. The reason it's called LARGE INDIE GENERAL is because VShojo had become ingratiated with a number of big-name indies, too many for all to reasonably be considered + and enough for their own thread.

The current state of /lig/ is that nobody talks about any of the vtubers for whom /lig/ was created. The original /lig/ had absolutely zero overlap with /wvt/.

/wvt/ is a parasite, not a source.

If there was anything negative between Grape and Froggy to be fair, it was never proven, only rrated after some suspicious timing on some things then it's safe to assume it's cleared up. Grape has just joined Zen's birthday stream after Froggy was already in and Froggy was the first to get hyped and say hi.

>>76252655
>Why is he OK with Geega in VShoujo but NOT ok with Tob collabing with 3am?
Simple.
It's about control.
Geega is too smart and too successful for him to assert control over. Tob isn't.

It's known that the big names who have had nothing but good experiences under MSM have been purposefully kept as far away from his treacherous dealings as possible. They bring in money and clout, which attracts smaller talents who are easier to manipulate, which gives him more control and means to shape the scene to his liking.

>>76260832
I'm not having the numbers argument right now. /lig/ was made because there was nowhere else to discuss indie VTubers. /wvt/ (Western VTubers) was a thread where those chuubas were on topic, but again, it wasn't inhabitable because of all the schizos. So instead of moving to /wvt/ they made their own thread, and the number requirement was specifically to keep those schizos out. Both /vsj+/ and /wvt/ played a role in /lig's creation

And Saruei does still get discussion

>>76261021
Didn't Grep and Froggy just collab like 2 hours ago? Swear I saw 'em play MHW together.

>>76261295
Being smart and savvy isn't a defense against being manipulated. I don't know very much about this guy but given his self-defense video he seems perfectly capable of manipulating Geega, he has a gentle and self-effacing personality that would slip past her defenses against macho narcissists.

>>76255546
>Hiroshim00t
>LITERALLY
>FLED
>JAPAN
LMAO XD

>>76261473
Yeah but there were people speculating it was just an ass covering move after all that's happened lately. This time was unplanned and Grape just joined randomly.

>>76242220
Seth, I just want you to know this:

You will never be a real Yehudi. You have no patrilineal Judaism, you have no descent from Moses, you have no Matzo balls. You are a lying "manager" twisted by Discord and estrogen into a crude mockery of G-d's perfection.

All the “upvotes” you get are two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your fat rolls people mock you. Your single mother is disgusted and ashamed of you, your “followers” laugh at your deceitful scams behind closed doors.

Men of faith are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of intelligent design have allowed gamers to sniff out petty schemes with incredible efficiency. Even grifters who "profit" look like goyim to a Jew. Your sentence structure is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk gentile to read your idolatry, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your factless fantasies and homoerotic undertones.

You will never do a mitzvah. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under Joan Donovan's unbearable weight.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your sacrificial chicken, and make a peaceful offering for Azazel at the Passover dinner. Your parent will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment of knowing a scammer.They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with a Blue Checkmark, and every Rabbi putting a rock on your grave for the rest of eternity will know a member of the LGBTQ+ community is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably big-boned.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>76261777
But if he didn't get well-known and respected people like Geega and Aethel to be so enamored with his services that they sing his praises on stream, how would he get more people to sign with him?

If he tossed everyone in the crab bucket, then MSM would still be a handful of literal whos, SigBird, and a puzzlingly present Michael Winslow.

>>76242220
>Reminder that Seth is terminally /here/ and may even reply to you.
is Seth the anon in /lig/ who always says "Hi this is Seth"?

>>76262144
not a bad copypasta but judaism is matrilineal

Imagine Seth Weinstein doing an autistic dance because he got mentioned on 4chan

>>76245010
>>76245078
>>76245161
Their souls probably leaved their bodies for a second after they realized what's up and again when the recent happenings well, happened.
Praying for them to make it into the final rounds again next audition.

So tobs, grimmi and sigbird are huge bitches who can't get enough of seth's tax evading cock
That's what my impression of this drama

>>76259300
Anon do what you what. I said my peace.

>>76259466
He was more mad that Moist Critical was suing than he was at government incompetence to the point of linking federal immigration to the constitution. Regardless of what you think about the issue or immigration in general, LM's bias showed itself and what he thought of Charlie. And it affected his coverage and points.

>>76262530
Grimmi doesn't really have anything outside of MSM.
If the holorrat is true, she most likely has accidentally stealth blacklisted herself from making it further into the auditions again because her name is now invariably related to Seth's fuckery, so she's in a sinking ship and she can't leave it without slowly drowning.
Girl is DONE!

>>76262530
Explain to us how you came to that conclusion. Sigbird is the only bitch out of those 3. Tobs and grimmi are both naive idiots. Coqui says that tobs is welcome back to 3am if she chooses. Grimmi is just dumb and she's kinda stuck with the hot sauce company.

>>76262613
Yeah I know
I'm so tired of this grifter lawyer
I wish there was another one out there covering this stuff instead

>>76262530
So far Grimmi's involvement per Coqui's testimony is only that Seth named her specifically (for some reason) as someone who was doxxed by CoqMeat.

Which is doubly strange because Meat had been in contact with her not that long ago. She clearly is not involved in the blacklisting.

>>76263084
Did meat say what they talked about?

>>76262530
Tobs is retarded because she abandoned her friends just cause some scheming man whispered into her ears about them being mean on 4chan.

Grimmi is retarded because she turned down a huge opportunity to get locked down by a hot sauce company that doesnt even make real hot sauce. Grimmi is too nice to forgive and forget anything wrong seth does.

Sigrid is retarded because she fell for Seth's lies about making a cartoon for her and she's a huge insecure lesbo that wants to be hollywood famous. Bird is just someone who's being abused by her.

In other words, Seth is someone who's good at sweet talking to rein in retarded women who listen to his every decision.

>>76242678
(((Weinstein))), eh
I wonder if there's any way to avoid associating with people who will engage in such shady business practices. hm

https://www.twitch.tv/krimbokills
Krimbo is giving a little bit of a update on why he's "happy"
>He apparently has unblocked some people, name dropped Sigrid and said she can reach out if she wants to talk.
>He's apologized to being too hard on Froggy, but at the same time said he doesn't want to be friends or for her to reach out, he washed his hands of her and is backing away
>Said not to expect anything regarding MSM drama anymore from him

>>76263186
Meat played an omegaverse VN on stream, said she'd talked to an expert on the matter beforehand and then confirmed it was Grimmi when someone guessed in chat

>>76263186
It was about omegaverse stuff. This was when she played that lesbian omegaverse game

>>76262982
>they dumb pls understand :(((
there's a limit for that, this is past it. It feels malicious from their part

Looks like Krimbo's not dropping anything tonight. Just extending an olive branch to Sigrid, unblocked some dudes and apologized for being too harsh on Froggyloch but still doesn't want anything to do with her.

>>76263195
It's probably no coincidence that all of the smaller talent under MSM are some shade of mentally ill

>>76262144
I kek'd

>>76263195
It just sounds like they are addicted to his cock and will obey him until death and be paid in hot sauce with his cum

>>76244733
I find it funny that she talked about her experience being in a cult due to her mom, and now she is basically tricked to be in the equivalent of a MLM with the whole hotsauce situation.

>>76260832
>whoever wrote the original OPs for /lig/ decided to say "down to 100 ccv is fine" instead of actually enforcing the LARGE requirement.

wow its like who ever wrote that first OP was actually a Nemu fan or something, maybe in coalition with anyas who gave him suggestions back in the trash threads
>The original /lig/ had absolutely zero overlap with /wvt/.
lol
lamao even

Just joined
how many
> I hate Froggy
has he dropped so far

>>76264406
Yes

>>76242678
>weinstein
noticing

>>76264353
>lamao even
>posts Lumi, who at the time was 1000+ CCV

>>76264257
It's only one letter off, too. The jokes write themselves

This thread is like the holy trinity of autistic grudgeposting, schizo rrats and sincere journalism all rolled up into one.

absolutely terrible posts guys keep it up

>>76264668
meeting of /lig/, the catalog, and /news/ kek.

>>76264353
The guy who made the first /lig/ was a /vsj+/ poster who said he was doing it because he wanted a place to talk about Nemu who was a somewhat big indie but had at the time zero contact with anyone in VShojo so finding a reason to discuss her wasn't really working. Saruei posters and the Tobposter were a problem at the time, but getting rid of them was just a happy coincidence and Saruei posters resisted migrating until they got a few bans initially and the Tobposter continued to troll /vsj+/ for like a year after.

>>76264668
>>76264775
>>76264887
Behold: /vt/'s true form

>>76263775
>>76263938
It sounded like he was implying a bit more. He tweeting about finding out some good news, and right after called Seth a snake a couple times.

He said he wont talk about MSM drama anymore because he "doesn't have to" implying something there will probably be some big news dropping soon.

>>76264353
Stop your revisionist history.
/lig/ was a Tob containment thread, because Tob was being spammed in vsj for no valid reason at all. Nothing more, nothing less.
The Tobposter was not a /wvt/ personality.
At first, it was Saruei and Tob and oocasional ly personalities ike Momo (green cat) or Rosedoodle.

>>76263775
Adding that:
>He was going to talk about how he almost left the South Side
>He seems to get some DM that tells him to hold back and not go into details yet, implies that there is something going on in the background and other people want him to hold off for now
>He said he wouldn't be telling the story today but that he loves the South Side and just wanted to do something that was celebrating them and cheering them on.

>>76264668
hi Tob, what are you doing for Second Passover this year

>>76242678
>Weinstein

Why does the person representing people who hate Seth have to be Krimbo?
I too want to hate Seth, but can't I select another leader?

>>76265200
It wasn't a tob containment thread, although it helped alleviate the issue for /vsj/ of their tob posters and eventually their saru posters. It was a marriage of convenience

>>76265200
A Nemu fan made the first OP and there's only a single mention of Tob in that entire thread. And who's listed in the OP as an example of a ligger? Lumi
https://archive.palanq.win/vt/thread/17100098/

>>76242220
If someone summarizes all this I'll post a vocaroo in a loli voice saying whatever you want.

>>76265150
>a /vsj+/ poster who said he was doing it because he wanted a place to talk about Nemu
this never happened

>>76265442
Yup that's what I said >>76265150 you beat me to finding the post and too many people want to claim other reasons.
>>76265482
>>76265442

>>76265437
Not until literally anyone else steps up.

>>76265437
Because he's the hero we don't want but the hero that seth deserves to deal with.

>>76265200
this is pretty on point

>>76265442
>>76265470
I can't tell if you two are new trying to act like oldfags or trying to play revisionism on purpose

>>76265274
He actually had a slide up that said "Why I almost left South Side" and then got rid of it near the start of the stream.

>>76265442
>>76265470
I'm not talking about what happened immediately after it was created. I was talking about the reason for its creation. People proposed and TALKED about it for several weeks in vsj before the Nemu guy took the plunge and set it up, and they reason they talked about it was as it means to make tobposter go away.
I'm not saying that it worked.
Tobposter never actually showed up in /lig/ until months later, and continued to harass vsj out of spite.

I love how we've come full circle back to the 'Why does this thread exist' meme from old /lig/

>>76265482
>>17100423
lol
lmao

>>76265705
thank you for eagerly proving my point

>>76265618
He seems really happy so I wonder if there is news in the background, maybe leaks from MSM talents on their side, that things are turning against Seth?

>>76265150
If only the silver spammers would get banned like the sarueifags

>>76265806
Grimmi's said she's taking the next 4 days off on stream earlier. Might be a sign?

>>76265782
>>17104162
I can keep going, nemufags love to shit up threads

>>76265862
Shes pregnant...

>>76265872
both posts you linked just proved me right, I'm not sure what you're trying to argue

>>76265939
I'm the baby

>>76265687
I wish we could revert the /lig/ state to that time

>>76265619
>>76265638
Faggots who "talk about" doing things amount to nothing. They did nothing, contributed nothing. The Nemu guy took action, made the OC for the OP image, wrote up the OP, and posted it. And he said he did it to create a space to talk about indie VTubers. It doesn't matter what your fart-huffing thinktank wanted, because they didn't put their money where their mouth is

Zen watching the birthday video while downloading

>>76266026
/lig/ really jumped the shark the day people started talking about Lucy. it's been unreadable ever since

>>76265687
>>76266055
I guess this is how history is written. In truth, people in /vsj+/ were past a boiling point with the soon to be /lig/ crowd posting, and someone just decided to make /lig/ in response. It's just a decision some guy made and it stuck.

Now people are doing all kinds of revisionism of the nuances of the state of /vt/ to explain why /lig/ was made. It was just guys from /vsj+/ that made a thread. That's why /lig/ exists. You can analyze why it lasted, but it was just one guy that made the thread.

>>76266080
since fat mint

>>76265150
I told several of you before that as long as you dont actually search the trash archives, you will always know half of the story
The anyas were there from the start
The anyas remember

https://archive.palanq.win/vt/thread/40684481/#40727540

Ask the man who makes the dr manhattan edits. He has seen the trash records. He knows what truly transpired in that fateful day years ago when Yozo of all people set the drills in motion.

>>76266055
weird energy.
the name and the idea /lig/ was proposed in vsj weeks beforehand. it wasn't the OP's idea.
and you make it sound like him actually creating the thread was something heroic and beneficial, when really it's been a net negative to /vt/ and to the world.
It should have stayed in the proposal stage.

>>76266055
>you did NOTHING
>he BAKED
Try being less insane.

>>76242220
So, why is Grimmi still defending this shit?

>>76265862
She said it's because her voice is tired, she did 3 double stream days and went long on her birthday stream last week

>>76266291
is she, though?

>>76266026
I don't, the thread and the people in it have grown a lot these past couple years, formed relationships and strengthened those bonds. It's a lot more hectic than it used to be, but that just comes with the territory

This thread has convinced me that all non-JP vtuber discussion should be banned to /trash/, as God intended.

>>76266398
>I don't, the thread and the people in it have grown a lot these past couple years, formed relationships and strengthened those bonds.
what delusional crap is this gentleman smoking

>>76244038
>implying a 4chan moderator giving enough of a fuck about random vtuber drama to feed some random jew who lives in his car or some shit IPs so he can stir shit in some extremely niche corner of the vtubing scene is more likely than said jew just lying about it

>>76266222
I like how the retard that wrote all of this straight up admits in point 8 that all of it is bullshit

>>76266424
>convinced me
sure, nerd.
you totally weren't already convinced of this ages ago and totally have not been repeating it every day, even though no one listens to you.

>>76266291
She needs to sell 25k worth of hot sauce

>>76266258
>>76266259
He took action, that's all that needs to be done in most situations and yet so many fail to do it. How did this MSM situation start in the first place? Someone took action and looked into MSM's business and saw it was in forfeiture. There had been mentions of this in the past too, but no one bothered to do anything until just last week. Action is all that matters, no matter how small the action is

>>76266450
If you paid attention you would understand what I'm saying

>>76266222
any analysis of the origins of /lig/ that does not focus on Tobposting is incomplete at best, nonsensical at worst

I think anons have been looking at this drama in completely the wrong way. You think that South Side is out here trying to convince the world of vtubers that Seth is scum and to cancel him, but that they're just too retarded to show all the receipts they have, or they're making it up for clout.
Wrong. This drama isn't for the vtuber community, it's specifically aimed at MSM talents. This is why they're being so kind to most MSM talents and purposely avoiding putting their names in the spotlight, making sure to protect their leakers, and only focusing on Seth. They're trying to ingratiate themselves to the majority of the MSMers who they assume are good people.
If you assume South Side's narrative is true then what they've been doing so far is tailored to convincing MSM talents that they've been grifted and trying to get them to leave MSM or get enough courage to speak up against Seth.
South Side is trying to give all the talents that aren't explicitly against their side the full picture of what has been happening. This could be most of the talents given the theory they're being manipulated. The aim of this is to undermine their trust in Seth by showing how much of a piece of shit he is in addition to exposing his business practices too.
This is why they don't need to show all the receipts yet because the talents internal to MSM will be able to confirm it on their own, they can chat with each other, and look at what Seth has said and done and draw a line between the dots. They don't need to see another MSM talent's name next to a DM, they can investigate themselves.
If it's all true, once MSM talents investigate on their own side, they'll start to realize what is going on and either leave and speak out, or the leakers will gain confidence to allow South Side to show the full receipts, that's when the real public cancellation will start.

>>76266398
so what you are saying is anons started to avatarfag and erp instead of talking about streams and that's somehow made the thread better?

>>76266818
wat

>>76266661
NTA, but you need to stop citing the crackpipe. /lig/ was kino for a while. It's a thread that noticeably went to shit over time.

>>76266835
yes, that is exactly what he is saying and then he cums on u

>>76266835
No, erp posting was in early /lig/ with Vienna images, and even earlier than that with Nyanposters in /vsj+/. They even had a fucking femboy Nyanners Koikatsu card to represent their erp posters

>>76266953
>even earlier than that with Nyanposters i
frootposters were the bread and butter of vsj erp, not pinkposters

>>76266904
How did it go to shit?

>>76266696
as I said, either side only knows half the story
but Nemu poster made clear what his intentions were from the start
/lig/ was indented as the next step in the ladder

>>76266953
you don't have to remind me but vienna anons weren't having a 10+ posts chain conversations, they were just a small part of the thread not the majority of population

>>76267042
Around March of last year when the catalog actually paid attention to it during the Pikamee drama. Then we got the ex vshojos, tons of /wvt/ call ups, ex nijis, ect. It's just a case of the thread is stuff to the gills

>>76267042
Shondofags (I love Shondo btw, I'm just telling it like it is)
Lucyfags
and all of their spawn

>>76267124
So /lig/ is shit because it's too fast now? Because you personally can't keep up with it?

>>76267129
How did Shondofags and Lucyfags make /lig/ shit?

>>76266818
This only works if Seth is the only person at the company. An ex talent mentioned at least two other managers. Seth might be shit, but what if the other managers have actually been repairing issues

>>76267042
vsj schizos moved in after nyanners went indie, and wvt schizos also followed, althought the vtuber ones went into asp instead

>>76267042
It was infested by many waves of refugees. And it was very noticeable.

>>76267296
They didn't repair the biggest issue which is the fact the company legally doesn't exists

>>76267299
>>76267316
What did these schizos and refugees do to make the thread shit? Can you actually point to specific things or is this just a "thread 2 fast 4 me :(" complaint?

>>76267085
In the end, it was all about Little S anyway
I did have a laugh seeing his post being brought up when talking about Seth

time is a flat circle

>Off topic metaposting about a completely different thread
Yeah I think I can tell who's apparently making /lig/ shit

>>76267464
There's nothing left to pick through with MSM, it's just waiting for new statements at this point

>>76267227
>How did Shondofags and Lucyfags make /lig/ shit?
very quickly and with great enthusiasm

>>76267296
According to the South Side narrative so far Seth is the only problematic person, so I think South Side would be happy if Seth was ousted and other management took over. They don't necessarily want MSM talent to dissolve, they just want the slander to stop (Coqui said this multiple times, "we just want it to stop"). As long as Seth is removed from the equation that would be victory of the South Side campaign.
I definitely see a solution here where Seth is kicked out and a new LLC is established with a different name (LM said this is easy and takes like a day at most), as it is quite likely the tax issues are preventing Seth from reviving the forfeited LLC, the contracts are resigned and then MSM talent rebrands with Seth kicked to the curb on his ass.

>>76267227
>>76267398
It's not the speed of the thread, it's the quality of posters. I don't know who you're trying to debate. Are you just on of those people who thinks he knows better than people that at least seem like they really were there? Not that any of them are any more objective than you, but you should realize that you're not any more objective than them, either.

>>76267538
So you can't name anything specific, just a general idea of a kind of poster in your head that you dislike

>>76267464
this guy is pretty funny, in any argument he just keeps repeating your argument back to you as a question and once you present something he can't do that with or ask him into making any actual counterarguments, he just posts "I accept your concession" and runs away

>>76267398
quit being a sea lion.
you may have the stupid and incorrect opinion that the state of /lig/ is not terrible, but no one is required to change your mind.
Continue to believe that.

>>76267506
but can tobposters save her from Seth evil hands and restore what should had been?

>>76267587
>>76267645
I'm just doing my part to quell doomposting. As you can see, no one complaining here can point to something specific when claiming that /lig/ has fallen, they're just vaguely mad or upset. All of those negative feelings are inside of them, not in the thread itself. People still have fun, create things, and discuss chuubas. The thread is doing what it was created to do, and it will continue to do that whether you want to contribute or not

>>76267598
>in your head
no, they actually exist. go back to /lig/, where your antics are tolerated.

>>76267774
lig literally has bots that argue wtih each other for hundreds of posts.

>>76267774
>Are you sure you don't like how shit tastes? Can't you just deal with it?
arguably, you're doomposting yourself

>>76267774
you are free to delude yourself however you want, just don't ask other people to believe in your delusions

>>76267804
If they exist, then why can't you describe them? Give examples of their behavior and what is so detestable about them?

>>76267774
>I'm just doing my part
if you were genuinely interested in doing your part to improve the thread, you would kill yourself.
But you're not interested. You're just bothering people, as usual.

>>76262243
>judaism is matrilineal
not always

>>76267872
I'm not forcing you to come along, it's your choice if you want to lift yourself up or not

>>76267874
What about the thread is "shit"?

>>76267898
I'm calling your bullshit what it is: vague whining

>>76267837
you're literally talking to one of those "bots" now, and I don't know if you mean bot in some figurative sense, but he's a human, and he's retarded.

>>76267774
How are you doing your part to quell doomposting? Multiple people described what's the problem with /lig/, no?
Are you sure these "negative feelings" aren't in the thread itself? Can you show proof of people "having fun, creating things and discussing chuubas"?

>>76267987
>What about the thread is "shit"?
your posts

>>76267551
>They don't necessarily want MSM talent to dissolve, they just want the slander to stop
I don't care if the slander stops but I do want MSM Talent to dissolve.

>>76267885
They were described and directly named earlier, why did you ignore them?

>>76267987
Why would I lift myself when the problem remains in the thread?
And how is that vague whining?

>>76267837
That hasn't been a recurring issue

>>76268002
They say they have a problem with /lig/, but they can't describe what the problem is no matter how much you ask. It's manufactured inside of them
>Can you show proof of people "having fun, creating things and discussing chuubas"?
The image in that very post you replied to, every time a birthday card is made, daily jiggys, the occasional online doodle board. Here's another image too

>>76268035
Which posts in /lig/ are mine? How are they shit?

>>76268088
You failed to describe anything, you gave a name of a specific type of poster that only has a definition in your head. You failed to point out specific behaviors making the thread worse

I'm glad all the fucking whiners have congregated, make sure you stay here so I don't have to see your tired faggy metaposts in /lig/ anymore

man this thread got deeply off topic at the end here

>>76268233
>Which posts in /lig/ are mine? How are they shit?
you already know

>>76268233
>That hasn't been a recurring issue
How is that not a recurring issue? Have you even looked at threads lately?
>They say they have a problem with /lig/, but they can't describe what the problem is no matter how much you ask.
But they described their issue, and you ignored them?
>It's manufactured inside of them
Can you prove said problem is manufactured inside of them? Didn't multiple people post saying otherwise?
>The image in that very post you replied to
None of this elicits having fun, and what about discussing chuubas? Did you even read my post?
>You failed to describe anything, you gave a name of a specific type of poster that only has a definition in your head. You failed to point out specific behaviors making the thread worse
How did I fail to describe anything? Many of the replies to your posts were directly addressing what you asked, no? Their specific behavior was also pointed out, why did you shove that aside?

>>76266291
Haven't seen anything pointing directly to her doing so, as far as clear-cut defending goes.
Seems to be keeping out of it for now, unless something else has been said?

>>76267774
>The thread is doing what it was created to do

actually, something did go amiss
/lig/ was too good, too much fun, and because of that, it never reached its full potential: people did not want to leave it and create new gardens
Lig is now faster that hlgg and unlike the first it has no proper splits.
There solution to most of the current lig issues, including bot spams, has been there from the start: temporal threads, like /uuu/, like /anya global/, like /nina/
lig was always meant to be the garden that blooms a thousand flowers. This is their destiny. Look at the catalog with a thousand hololive splits. It could be /shon/, /tobs/ , /filian/
the catalog war is over, but its tactics can still aid lig: relieve the pressure with splits. /mig/ and /pi/ are the wrong paths. The right answer has always been there, in /nina/