/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>75351962
So if the person playing Mio were replaced with a new actress, should be no problem for this gentleman, correct?

>>75351962
They are neither the character or the person. Vtubers are the combination of both. If you put someone else inside of Pekora it wouldn't be Pekora for instance. KSon without the orange dragon is also different. It is both. Not one or the other.

>>75352139
Correct. /thread

>>75352139
seems like a doxxfag pov

>>75352139
Explain Superman. They just replaced Henry Cavil with some new dude. They replace Heath with Joaquin. Affleck with Pattinson. People still love the character regardless of the actor

They're right, Nazuna the character has never collabed with a male and is therefore pure.

>>75352279
Nazuner's model fits her voice better than any other character model she has. Nekofami and Fandead can fight me, I don't care.

>>75352247
They're not vtubers.
They're different interpretations of a character.

life is more interesting when you delusionmaxx

>>75352247
Because Superman and Superhero character in general has been through so many different version with comic, tv, movies, games, etc that everyone just accept him whoever he might be. Superman is just superman whoever plays him.
Now change that with Jack Sparrow, will you accept a new Jack Sparrow without Johnny Depp as the actor?

>>75352247
nta they replaced Heath with Leto and it was universally hated despite how much that character is beloved
People like the performance not the character itself

>>75352468
Might as well go full /x/ and summon your own tulpa.

>>75352247
they are characters that were born in comics with no set "personality" behind it
for instance, the person behind say a vtuber version of Sonic wouldn't matter in the same sense than the vtubers we discuss here are a mix of the roommate's personality and kayfabe (if any)

>>75352199
Not if we never desire to see one or the other seperate. Coco died when she graduated. Same with any graduated, or terminated, talent. That entity is dead. There is no equivalent.

>>75351962
Sauce?

I am in love with Pippa

I’m not gonna lie, reality just feels like its own kind of fantasy, except a sucky one that people keep trying to drag me into. If it wasn’t for this meddling, I’d be happily lost in my own head.

>>75351962
Mio will never be impregnated at this rate, why are her fans like this?

>>75352643
You can't impregnate a vtuber anon, they're 2d, or at least virtual. Anything that isn't virtual isn't a vtuber.

>>75351962
Wrong.
If that were true, these "characters" wouldn't talk about their "VA"'s families or interests or preferences or surgeries or anything else that is part of the life of the people behind them.
If the character were seperable from the person behind it, then the person behind the character could be replaced and fans would accept it like how people accept the VA changing for a character in an anime if the VA passes away.
Bayonetta is not Hellena Taylor (or Atsuko Tanaka in Japanese).
But Mori Calliope IS the woman behind the character.

>>75352279
Nazuna the character literally did collab with a male.

>>75352115
Of course not. The fan interviewed was too stupid to understand his affection for Mio or why he likes the "character" unless of course, he doesn't even watch her and only likes the artwork people make of her, but I wouldn't really call that "love" if that's the case.

>>75352713
What if he scan his sperm then upload it into Mio's womb? Does that works?

>>75352982
Dunno. He should ejaculate on a scanner printer and email it to her to see if it's possible.

>>75352247
Putting aside the fact that this is a stupid comparison to begin with, you can ask someone who their favorite Joker is. Every actor who has taken up that role did something different with it, and every writer has a different interpretation of him.

In a hypothetical situation where Pekora was replaced with a new pilot, and assuming the outrage doesn't force Cover to backpedal, there would be people who prefer the new Pekora and people who feel that the new one isn't Pekora at all.

You can never truly separate the character from the person who brings that character to life.

>>75352353
The two Nazunas are easily the best models she's ever had, from a design and technical standpoint.

>>75352139
I suppose you can say that
Character + Roommate = vtuber and so it wouldn't be the same vtuber without either.
However, I feel like this ignores how similar two different vtubers are to each other if they share the same roommate.
For example, there really is no major difference in personality between Amano Pikamee and Henya, because they share the same person behind them. These two vtubers share literally everything about their personality, mannerisms, family, etc and the only difference is the model. This indicates that the person behind the vtuber is way more important and influential than the character live2D model.

>>75352502
nta but I've already done that and I think I'm rather well-adjusted
>inb4 people who say they're well-adjusted aren't really well-adjustedthat's why I said 'rather'

>>75353286
To what extent did Pika have a character developed that was someone besides herself though? Some vtubers do this extensively and swapping a model and persona but keeping the same roommate would be a huge shift if they didn't carry that old worldbuilding forward with them

>>75351962
I miss Rushia.

>>75352199
If your oshi graduated and "reincarnated" as another vtuber, would you follow them and watch them while they use their new vtuber avatar?
If the answer is yes, then congratulations, you yourself are now a "doxxfag" by your own logic.

>>75351962
Considering the amount of handcams full torso+leg cam actual just webcam in western vtubing i dunno

>>75352247
Superman is following a script. His words are not the words of the actor. It's entirely different with vtubers that live stream.

>>75352247
Those are different depictions of the same characters. This isn't just a movie thing, different comic eras or even writers portray the same character differently too, with different origin stories even.

>>75352139
>KSon without the orange dragon is also different. It is both. Not one or the other.
Nah. Too much of the "character" is the actor's actual personality leaking through, even if they're actually trying to play a different character, and most don't really try particularly hard to do so. Kaichou is Souchou. The sparky kettle is the smart kettle. The twins are the twins.

>>75351962
these women are not that good at acting dawg

>>75352115
>So if the person playing Mio were replaced with a new actress, should be no problem for this gentleman, correct?

>>75353979
At least it is going to end soon.

>>75351962
What if the person behind the avatar is also a character?
One of the hardest truths to accept in vtubing is how much you will never know: everything could be an act, no matter how genuine and plausible it sounds

>>75351962
>>75352247
It's always interesting watching "kayfabe purists" like yourself scramble and squeeze into knots trying to justify your sudden interest in your oshi's roommate the second they announce their graduation or termination.
This board's rules cater to the lowest common denominator and attempts to protect them from reality like no other board on 4chan. It really is baffling because I can't think of a single other medium or fandom that operates this way. There is none.
We didn't care about people talking about roommates on /jp/ and so it's always been bizarre seeing newfags come into this hobby and demand that their delusions be catered to like trannies.

It's true that talking about a vtuber's roommate in their own public fan spaces where they frequent, or even worse, to their face, is both cringe and gauche. But 4chan isn't supposed to be a vtuber space like twitter or reddit. And yet this board in particular operates as an extension of those places by enforcing ridiculous and child-like demands upon its users to leave reality at the wayside, unlike any other board on this website.

Look at the top of the page. It's no wonder /vt/ never got an official announcement upon its creation. It's an embassment to everyone who has ever frequented this website.

>>75351962
I'm neither a seiyuufag nor an american, so couldn't be me. But recast faggot can go suck a chode and die

>>75354131
Yeah I agree if I wanted make believe I would have stayed with anime. This is my reality TV I want reality the real people behind the avatar, and this boards rules are kinda excessively restrictive

>>75351962
This is me, please tell down picture~

Originally vtubers were arguably just characters (i.e. back when it was all skits a la Kizuna Ai). Now they're pretty much just avatars for streamers. Streamers that talk about personal things that aren't 'character lore'.
If you don't like the person behind the avatar, then you don't like the vtuber, simple as that. You could argue that kayfabe is part of why you like them, but at the end of the day, you have to like the person behind the avatar and you're deluding yourself if you really believe you just like them as a 'character'.
That's why fanbases follow reincarnations (or alternatively hate them even after they're reincarnated). Everyone knows this. Stop being stupid.

>>75354131
>/vt/ is shit,i'm from /jp/
so even worse?

>>75351962
If you are not even the slightest bit curious of your oshi's rm/pl, she isn't even really your oshi. This doesn't mean you should act on it, though.

>>75353466
No offense, but I don't think saying, "I'm from Pekoland; I was a princess there" and then adding a "peko" gobi to the end of your sentences is that complex of a character either, nor would it rise to the level of "developed world building" in my opinion.
And I adore Pekora, who by the way intentionally left references to her roommate in the lore she created for her hololive character. Details such as her being 111 years old were not random.

>>75354248
Even during the oldschool vtuber days people got attached to the personality imparted by the person behind, just look at the GameBu implosion or the additional Kizuna Ai VAs drama

>>75352713
What about vtubers who often fleshcam?

>>75352115
>Brave C-tuber intensifies

>>75351962
I'm only capable of doing this when jerking it to their porn. It's weird to fap to the actual person

>>75354007
5 seasons too late.

>>75354718
At that point what is the point of vtubing, might as well start watching more entertaining eceleb like Chance

>>75352139
>KSon without the orange dragon is also different
We call this "love for the blue dorito chip"

>>75354881
To get in on the trend, duh.

>>75354653
Yeah but they were still arguably just characters then. People have the same reactions when their favourite character on a TV show is replaced by some random actor/actress they don't know/like.
It would be hard to argue that any streamer nowadays plays so hard into the kayfabe that they're just a character that can be interpreted in other ways. Nobody would even attempt to replace a vtuber streamer like they tried with Ai because it would be absurd.

>>75354653
This, honestly. If nothing else, I'm glad those incidents cemented what isn't acceptable in the eyes of fans and showed companies that their talent are the most important part of their business, not the IP. Upd8t wanted it to be the other way around, and I'm sure most business-orientated people involved in this industry would have preferred it if the VA's were replaceable as well.
Instead, those incidents made it clear to companies that the characters are inextricably linked to the person behind them, and I truly believe the ONLY reason this industry thrived like it did is because talent have negotiation power and aren't seen as disposable and replaceable.

Imagine a timeline where Pekora and Korone had their own English VAs that streamed within their own localized hololive ecosystem and called it hololive English. What a soulless nightmare that would be. Would anyone still care about vtubers at that point?
And if anyone else thinks that scenario is ridiculous. That's literally what Upd8t tried to do with Kizuna Ai, but in Chinese instead of English.

>>75354946
>Yeah but they were still arguably just characters then.
Yeah, because Brave rebranding themselves as "character youtubers" and make the term "ctuber" a thing worked out so well

>>75354881
I don't mind if the roommate does streaming activities other than their vtuber persona, but I usually prefer them to be separate, at least on their own channel.

But I think it's kind of ridiculous to expect people to separate them as well within fan communities.
I'll give an example. If a vtuber says they can't stream today and then says their parent died on their roommate account, I think fans should be mature enough to understand that the streamer doesn't want to bring up sad topics on the vtuber side but wants her fans that follow her roommate to know the reason for what happened.
On places like reddit or twitter, fans should compartmentalize that information and their responses. This would include things such as being mindful of the vtuber and not bringing up her parent's death when replying to their vtuber account.
But when talking amongst themselves, the fans in less outward facing places, like 4chan, should be able to discuss the full breadth of what happened without having to fear getting banned.

Fuck of Unlimited apologist

>>75351962
While that is true, it has been warped with time. Kayfabe as the westoids call it is when they blur the lines and usually when the character is treated as just a mask for the person behind it. That's why you have vtubers posting their real bodies or talking about their period pains, and then worrying that they need to do a pregnancy test or an STD checkup. Westerners are very bad at playing characters in general, and the western fanbase primary takes after the egirl/camwhore/twitch culture.

>>75351962
>braindead and mentally disabled
>holofag
yeah it checks out

>>75355419
Not really sure why you bring up the period stuff. Most vtubers are women and women get various degrees of pain in their stomach once a month. I suppose maybe you'd prefer if they just made up an excuse not to stream instead, but even those that mention it, they usually just say something along the lines of their tummy hurts.
Also, many JP vtubers have mentioned having stomach and period pain before as well, including many within hololive. I'm not sure why them having a period makes you uncomfortable or takes you out of your strange kayfabe immersion, but honestly, I would be more upset if my oshi wasn't having them, considering the implications.
I haven't seen many vtubers go into detail about their period anyway, except that old disgusting clip of Veibei from vshojo talking about her period chunk-filled diarrhea while watching a youtube video of a woman making a meat casserole.

>>75353747
Those exist in the JP side too anon.

>>75352115
CHECKMATE~!

>>75353286
>This indicates that the person behind the vtuber is way more important and influential than the character live2D model.
That's not necessarily true and you cannot make that conclusion based on your examples. The conclusion simply does not logically follow from the premises. If the person behind the character is what is important then that person would succeed without being a character. Worse, they would necessarily succeed without prior attachment related to any kind of production or branding. It is more the air of fame and spectacle that surrounds the affiliation and sense of e-celebrity that empower the person behind the popular character of one corpo to gain a following with a new character in another corpo or solo. Previous to their corpo debut most of them were practically unheard of and were ignored by most of their future fandom.
That people try to latch onto the famous is an unfortunate phenomenon of modern societies, especially in the west. Ascribing that kind of following as an outcome of their own personal characteristics is a gross misinterpretation.

All fiction is based on reality, and reality can be influenced by fiction.

Get fucked.

>>75355792
I was just rattling off some stuff I know people have complained about before. Apparently the ones they follow explicitly talk about things like period pain and period blood. You're twisting yourself into a fool by trying to make this strawman argument at me. If you want to argue that characters in all sorts of media including anime and video games should explicitly ramble on about such things, that's your own argument to make. It has nothing to do with me or whether or not I'm comfortable around such topics with real people.

>>75352612
Post the feet AI audio

>>75355838
On the bright side we got cocoa back and she almost looks the same

>>75356090
(You)r Cocoa, not mine

>>75356215
Cocoa el blanco

>>75355890
I never said the character (or yes, the brand) was insignificant. Of course those things are the impetus for why many vtubers become popular. A good model will help you make fans, but it won't help you keep them.
So I guess what I'm saying is that there's a reason why Kson, dokibird, and Mint gained hundreds of thousands of subs after they graduated from their other personas. Many of their roommates explode in subs even before they graduate. The channel of a certain small, "chaotic blue dummy" jumped in subs after she joined hololive to the point of getting her a (second) gold play button.

>>75353493
is she gone gone? havent heard shit from the cat or her vshojo shit

>>75351962
sauce?
also I agree, fuck the western cargo cult version of vtubing, what is important is the synthesis between the model and the nakanohito; either one alone is worthless, but id still say the character takes precedent

>>75356024
>Apparently the ones they follow explicitly talk about things like period pain and period blood.
Every woman on Earth complains about period pain. They might do it in a way that you don't realize, like euphemistically saying their tummy hurts, but they all do it, including JP members. Pekora had a period tracking app on her phone's homescreen that appeared on-stream.
>If you want to argue that characters in all sorts of media including anime and video games should explicitly ramble on about such things
No one said that anime and video game characters should go into detail about their periods. I mean, something like that might be part of the plot of a specific anime or show or something, so speaking in absolutes is stupid anyways. More importantly, no one is bringing up scripted characters in this discussion in the first place.
Take Mori, for example, she's getting some knee surgery done, but that's definitely not part of her character setting. And there have been plenty of JP holos that have talked about their medical procedures or health conditions as well.
Whether you think that's them being bad at being a character or not is irrelevant, considering they were never characters in the traditional sense in the first place.
Even Kizuna Ai talked about herself and her preferences and hobbies, none of which were written for her.

>>75351962
They're a mix of both, but which is more important varies from vtuber to vtuber.

>>75356424
Her contract with Pony Canyon got terminated not that long ago and she did a pity baiting stream, as usual.
She was also recently seen flirting with some menhera musician (not mfmf) on twitter.

>>75352247
Are you implying that people doesn't grade "Batmans" by the person who played them? With stuff like
>Adam West was the Best Batman
or
>Ben Affleck is the best modern Batman
This means that people perceive those Batmans as different batmans, despite being the same character. So yes, even in movies, a character is the combination of both the actor and the character it plays.

>>75354131
Retard, /hlg/ used to ban roommate posting too until /vt/ was made. And then /hlg/ went down the shitter and became infested with roommate doxxposters and turned into the anti schizo general. Sharkmeido was right.

>>75354131
The reason is simple. It's not the fans demanding the protection, it's the vtubers themselves getting their fans to be jannies and enforcing this protection. They are the only ones getting anything out of this "protection".
I don't think there is a single EN vtuber that has never accessed /vt/ at any point, even if they don't frequent here often.

After all the shit with Doki it feels like the last vestiges of people wanting to separate the person and the persona shriveled up and died.

>>75358840
Not allowing roommate posting is the only correct way to handle it. Otherwise it ALWAYS devolves into garbage gossip about who this person is potentially dating, what guy they played games with, who's in their clique or what political takes they had on twitter 10 years ago. These kind of threads already exist and they are always the worst threads on the board and it would be infinitely worse if roommate posting was allowed.

>>75354131
The rules here are completely made up and depends on whatever janny is on.
Otherwise why are offtopic posts like >>75357565 allowed to shit the catalog.

>>75359080
Wrong. That only happens when women are around, and they are only around because they are vtubers and they need this protection from """"doxxing"""", proof of that is /vt/ being the only place where people talk about small vtubers and even has generals dedicated to them.

>>75359207
So you'd rather have threads about what males x vtuber talked to today than threads about content?
>>>/trash/ is that way

>>75359256
Again, only women care about this shit. Men only see that the girl has a boyfriend and moves on.
Proof is that /jp/ doesn't have this restriction, and they talk about content more often than here.

>>75351962
Because the person that plays the character matters. I bet if COVER replaced Mio with a $2 whore while keeping her model and character the same they'd soon complain.

>>75351962
and what do you do when they break that fiction themselves? either because fuck you or just a slip

>>75354131
I agree. Discussion should not only pertain to vtubers and their content but the business as a whole and in general. So it doesn't make sense to exclude the people who actually play the part when most of them don't maintain a kayfabe for their streams. It matters especially when their RM, PL posts discuss their vtuber jobs.

>>75359256
One of the reasons we have constant speculation threads about it is precisely because we can't talk about the roommates openly.
If we could, truth would come out, and discussion would end. But instead, people need to be obtuse or risk being banned, leaving other people unable to know the truth and have to keep searching for it.
There is no situation where not being able to talk about the roommates is optimal, unless you want to defend the vtuber itself from having their own public information "leaked".

>>75352247
Different timelines (continuity)of the same character dipshit

there's a reason Bale's Batman got to fight Joker despite Keaton's version killing him off

Niji graduations have shown that people care more about the person behind the avatar not the character itself.

>>75354131
At first, I thought the no roommate rule was weird for a site like 4chan to have, but then I say what /jp/ was like and it all made sense. If we allowed roommate stuff, then this board would just be sisters spamming the most braindead rrats.

>>75358840
>The reason is simple. It's not the fans demanding the protection, it's the vtubers themselves getting their fans to be jannies and enforcing this protection
Who?
Because most EN vtubers talks about whateverfuckingshit they do off stream constantly and aren't bothered posting IRL pictures, some don't even bother keeping IRL and vtuber accounts separated

>>75359080
You can talk about whatever roommate you want unless it's an Holo and in that case you are rolling dice on how many sperg have an autistic fit reporting and which part of SEA the janny on duty comes from
You aren't even banned for roommate most of the time, delete and a warning "please do the needful and don't do it again sir"

>>75351962
Why do twittertards care so much anyway? You think there are no people out there saying "I LOVE AND WANT TO MARRY TAYLOR SWIFT" or "I LOVE HANA KANAZAWA, NOT THE CHARACTERS SHE PLAYS, BUT HER SPECIFICALLY!".

It's like you people are offended by basic human behaviors because you are soulless children of the soiverse.

>>75360339
The person IS the character, at least a major part of the person is. Sure, most actors play up their performance a bit similarly to when they'd perform live on stage, but at their core they're still fundamentally themselves. The avatar is just that, a skinsuit. A skinsuit can't make a compelling character, but it can enhance it. A skinsuit without a compelling person behind it is a waste of resources.

>>75360682
I don't even know what you are trying to argue here.

>>75360367
> If we allowed roommate stuff, then this board would just be sisters spamming the most braindead rrats.
THATS WHAT THIS BOARD IS EITHER WAY YOU FUCKING RETARD

>>75354131
Suprised you didn’t get mopped up for complaining about 4chan yet

>>75351962
>Why are you incapable of separating reality from fiction?
>Vtubers are the characters, not the people behind them.
I'm sure this bait is deliberate, but holding fictional characters above real people, is the very definition of not being able to separate reality from fiction.

The character is nothing more than a doodle and some bullet points in a fan wiki somewhere, something anyone can churn out by the thousands in a short time, as demonstrated by FlaVR. Everything else is entirely the VA behind the camera and whatever they inspire in their fans. The VA is irreplaceable, and time and time again it's been proven the fans will follow the VA to whatever new character they end up playing, while they'll instantly abandon a character who has had their VA replaced.

>>75361573
Because /vt/ is one of the only boards that doesn't feel like 4chan. It has some weird rules that aren't there to help the users and create a better board, it's there to be an extension of the youtube comment section.

>>75361819
yes this board only exists for hololive global and hololive global only exists for IRC trannies

>>75359080
>Otherwise it ALWAYS devolves into garbage gossip
It does that either way
The only difference is that I can’t post pic related and have it stay up

>>75351962
Absolute copium, of course he's in love with Mio the actual woman. If you got some random lady off the street to stream using Mio's model, it wouldn't be the same.

>>75361875
>exists only for hololive global
I wish, then we wouldn't have a bunch of women around here doing retarded shit and thinking that's normal behavior.

>>75351962
Because you can't fall in love with a fictional character. Making the distinction and still declaring your "love" doesn't make you more in-the-know. It just makes you mentally ill.

>>75354248
>That's why fanbases follow reincarnations
they eventually don't, that's why kson is a borderline 3view shitter

>>75352115
Mio wouldn't be Mio if she was played by someone else. Nobody likes voice actresses or actors being replaced in anime either. At best it will be begrudgingly accepted if it has to happen.

>>75360339
Niji graduations have shown that people care more about the company that owns the avatar not the person themself.
ftfy

Twenty hours of weekly dialog from a typical vtuber, what is that? Where is it coming from? There's usually no writer. There's usually no script. 90% of the time the easiest thing for the talent to talk about is expressing their own personality, relating their own experiences, and sharing their own interests.
Creating that much actual fiction is a pain in the ass, and if you bother to, the reward is to be called a grifter. So they don't.

>>75360367
It would just be people posting Towa making funny faces.

>>75359080
That rule is in place specifically to protect whores. They can do whatever they want and be forgiven simply because they pretend to be anime women.
Rushia would never have gotten all those superchats if her past was exposed like it should have been.

>>75360339
Hololive graduations and terminations have shown the opposite.

>>75351962
Source?

>>75351962
Dreams are good

>>75351962
why would he say this about Mio of all chuubas?
I would unironically marry her hag roommate

>>75352279
>Kirsch's Totsu
>group collab with Taishi and Koheita
>trying to interact with Taishi one on one in Minecraft
All on Nazuna

i love mio too, what's the problem? MIO LOVE!

>>75354131
>I can't think of a single other medium or fandom that operates this way. There is none.

Hard core gatch fags.

>>75362305
Well yeah, but conversely he probably also wouldn't develop the same feelings for the person behind Mio if he met her IRL, regardless of if he knew she was Mio or not.

>>75379995
I don't think that holds, if she's hot. Even if she's not, might still fail to hold if the guy isn't picky. Voice and personality count for a lot.

Certainly no Rushia fan would pass up the opportunity to bang the flesh behind the character. (Granted, neither would anyone else.)