/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>75137611
>Idol
it's 40%, typical jewish misdirection

>>75137611
Phase deal seems kind of shit compared to the others desu

>>75137611
IIRC doesnt hololive also offer a 50k usd salary for all talents, too?

>>75137611
idol deal seems kind of misleading compared to the others desu

>>75137611
>2% Merch (From Mysta)
Since this is how much corpos TAKE, that should be "98% Merch".

>>75138456
Ah you're right. My bad.

>>75137611
we've literally seen nijisanji's contract and the 2% thing wasn't on it. Mysta is just retarded

>>75137981
They probably have a lot more internal support than other corpos.

Would Hololive send a tard wrangler over just to help you fill out passport paperwork?

>>75137611
The phase thing shouldn't be taken at face value. She was just going off of estimates. I doubt she's been far enough in the application process to actually see the cuts herself.

>>75137611
Holo and vshojo are probably tied for the best going off this.
From what I heard nijisanji has you foot the bill for almost everything so the equal cut doesnt help much.

>>75137611
Didn't Kson said Holo had a 50% cut?

>>75137611
You're taking into consideration the Youtube fee for Holo/Niji but not for Phase/Idol.

>>75140082
What? I didn't include any Youtube/Twitch fees for any of them.

>>75137611
>"Less than half" from Merch (confirmed by Geega)
So 49% until further notice.

>>75140167
Then it should be 50% for Holo/Niji. The 35% takes into consideration Youtube fees (30%)

>>75140183
I doubt the company would be petty enough to do that. It's most likely a 40/60.

>>75140041
50% cut might be only for special people. They also can try to negotiate a better cut on Holo

>>75137611
Niji may also additionally have "tax related cuts" from the Vtuber's portion.

>>75137981
Phase invests a lot back into talents, so it's 50% on paper but realistically its some unknown amount less than that because they pay for a lot of things

>>75138570
Who is that slut?

>>75137611
Now list how much support the talents receive from the corpos.
I was a bit surprised at how much support vshojo gives when michi was yapping about it.

>>75137611
>>75137981
I think she's talking about the typical corpo cut no?

>>75141628
what do they pay for? The phase girls I watch havent gotten new outfits or model upgrades or original songs

>>75141628
Whatever they get must be benefits unrelated to vtubing, considering a large amount of their talents have shit setups and constant stream issues.

>>75143143
Therapists
And meds
A lot of them.

>>75142338
nvm

>>75141628
>phase invests alot back into its talents
>half of them still have to work jobs outside of vtubing
>only a small handful have recieved new models, only slight upgrades at most
>promos are rare and far inbetween, almost always saved for 3 of the same talents
ehhhhhhhhhh
also IIRC lumi's remodel was completely out of pocket for her, same with her original songs

>>75137611
>Hololive
>Nijisanji
50% of 70% after jewtube's cut is 35%, that's the same as Phase's cut. 30% doesn't make sense.

>>75137611
There's also sponsors acquired through VShojo, though we don't know the split.

>>75145732
I think talents have mentioned it’s the same as merch. And for some talents, it’s slightly lower if their other agency is involved (UTA for Mouse and Zen, MSM for GEEGA, GeexPlus for Hime)

>>75146449
well, not MSM anymore kek

>>75137611
Apple also takes a cut if you donate through iOS, and holo/niji both take 50% of what's left after Apple and YouTube take their 30%. Niji also takes 50% of streamlabs, so it's probably clearer to just describe it as a 50% cut after whatever platform fees are involved. Most Holos don't seem to use streamlabs except for ID, because they had a problem years back with ID fans being unable to superchat. I don't know if any of them have talked about Holo's cut for streamlabs being any different from superchats, though.

So looking at Holo stats, the most popular average around 10kUSD/mo in revenue, which is 7k to the talent and 3k to Cover.
Most Vshojos don't have sub counts visible and they vary wildly, but a safe average for comparison purposes would be 10kUSD/mo after Twitch's cut, however that does NOT include bits/donos which are the equivalent of super chats. All 10kUSD/mo to the talent.
Talents in Vshojo do pay for their own models and assets, however it's only Mouse and Zen that spend even close to 3k/mo and they have higher sub counts than the average. So it's kind of hard to argue that Vshojo doesn't have the best deal for the talents when it comes to raw finances.

>>75141628
Source and examples?

>>75149582
Mentioned by Froot, but all of the talents have a slight "allowance" which is basically out of the money collected from merch and sponsors, that the talents can grab for some costs in models or assets. But one of the biggest money makers is not streaming and getting money from it, it's merch and sponsors.

>>75137611
why you retards keep inserting vshojo there? like it doesnt matter how good vshojo pays if you will never be able to join in the first place lmao, even though vshojo is the retirement home for niji,yet not ALL of the ex niji can join,they only choose the biggest/popular enough/part of their orbiter.
menwhile for typical corpo any random 2 view can join, and why this is matter? well if you are a retirement home for big ex niji like vshojo,then their pay should be far bigger and even les cut than it already is.

>>75151254
You are more likely to join vshojo as a 2view orbiter than you are to join holo as a 2view auditioning. The chances are near-zero for both, but one is a little smaller than the other.

No sources here so it's all lies.

>>75143967
>>half of them still have to work jobs outside of vtubing
Only Airi and Dizzy have to. Airi because of US work visa and Dizzy because she got fucked over by her sister.
I think Tenma does too but that's because she's grinding as much as possible to retire at 37.

>>75154329
>Hololive
There was a pie chart that showed Mori's cuts. I can't find it anymore but maybe some anon can.
>Nijisanji
Leaked contract, you can read it through. The 2% thing is well known and you can find clips of it.
>VShojo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdSK6Sy9A2g
>Phase
https://files.catbox.moe/8oju6a.mp4
>Idol
https://twitter.com/idol_corp/status/1693356309163160029?lang=en

>>75138674
That doesn't seem that strange compared to Vshojo since they'll do the same stuff.

>>75155907
sayu doesn't mention phase there? don't get me wrong I don't like phase but that's definitely not proof of their cut, she was just throwing out a number. 50% is also just very unlikely in general with even niji being quite a bit lower than that

>>75143967
>half of them still have to work jobs outside of vtubing
Only a couple have talked about working. and surprisingly a lot of them have said they make enough off of vtubing to support themselves.

>>75156356
yep. gunrun volunteered to go to mouse's house himself to fix her PC setup so no one new would have her personal info, I don't doubt that he would do it for any of their talents with an opsec concern if they asked him to

>>75138674
>Would Hololive send a tard wrangler over just to help you fill out passport paperwork?
Yes

>>75143143
idk but apparently he spent almost a million on commissions last year

>>75137611
A few more infos on the corpos I follow. Holo offers a base salary, don't know the amount.
Phase offered a salary for their first gen but that stopped being a thing with alias.

>>75143967
Most of Gen 2 are getting updated models soon(have no idea how long it will be)
Rie
Remi
Erina
And Shiina already has hers
I don't know about Airi and Panko

>>75137823
Go fuck yourself. I don't have anything to do with OP being wrong

>>75141628
>Phase invests a lot back into talents
>no base salary

>>75137611
Hololive contract has never been leaked but can't imagine talents getting much from generic merch when Cover owns all the copyrights. They do get more from custom merch and EN talents would sometimes hint that is the reason they are more enthusiastic when promoting custom merch.

>>75146449
Geega the unfortunate of the bunch

>>75137611
All companies except vshojo are around 50% after youtubes cut. There is not really much difference between Holo and Niji and the smallest 2bit microcorp

>>75137611
>2% Merch (From Mysta)
the 2% thing came from the 4th member of Krisis or however you spell it, when he got cold feet and bailed or was kicked or whatever the story is this week, and that info which then later got pedaled by Kson saying something like "wow, 2% is a little bit!"

>>75158749
Or Zaion or Mysta or someone else completely, we don't actually know. We only can assume that guy leaked the designs.

>>75149582
You're forgetting YT/Twitch cuts and other headaches

>>75158749
Rumor was the contract was retarded, he tried to negotiate, Niji Niji'd and he went I haven't even signed anything yet lol lmao even and leaked it.

>>75158946
I recall it being right when the krisis drama dropped that we got the "2%" shit, which itself is 2% of merch sales that the talent doesn't invest in
They still get 50% from Voice Packs and shit they help invest in like the non-generic as fuck acryllic pack, but apart from the Ethyria jewelry shit, it seems no one in EN bothers anymore

Fuck, take me back to LazuSydia and leave it there forever. Nothing good came from Ethyria onwards

>>75159020
I factored the twitch cut into it (Vshojo gets 70/30 on subs), does the revenue on vtstats account for YT's cut? if it doesn't then the talent/cover cut for the upper average is 4.9k/2.1k

>>75137611
>confirmed by Geega
You could get better credibility from confirming it via a magic 8 ball
What the fuck is that girl even doing nowadays besides dying of boredom trying to make GTA RP fun?

>>75158749
Mysta said some shit like: more like 1% or something like that. He doesn't get anything from it.
Whatever it is, it's low as fuck. Kson in the same comment almost kind of leaked hololives merch cut saying something like only 2%? I thought (amount I dont remember)% was low.

>Mista and Mika both jump ship for Vshojo over shit, not including tax issues
>Mista and Mika are both the only known vtubers in either company to have terrible tax issues
>Mista and Mika are both leeching off one another to plummeting viewerships
I don't doubt their story at all, Kurosanji probably did pull some shit like this, i just find it funny they're so fucking bad at essentially anything money related

>>75159269
>I don't like the source so it's fake

>>75159269
The most fun I had in GTA RP was doing drivebys on roleplay fags mid scenario until I got banned

>>75159600
While Mika really really should have bugged the indo IRS the first year to just be sure shit's on the level the service was a normal one commonly provided in indonesia so Niji fucking what is for indogs a commonplace thing is problematic for Niji

>>75138674
Didn't hololive send someone over to Mumei to make sure she doesn't starve to death

>>75137611
>2% Merch (From Mysta)
the 2% is the cut of the vtuber anon ....niji takes 98%

>>75137611
Like total or after YT cut

>>75143967
>half of them still have to work jobs outside of vtubing
Mostly by choice, like Runi and Tenma, or from external obligations, like Airi with her visa.
>only a small handful have recieved new models, only slight upgrades at most
"new models" makes no sense. Rigging updates are done for all talents. As for outfits and stuff, it's true with some nuances. Top earners have them, as for others, IRC gen1/2 have the queue at this point - since outfits are coupled with merch, they space them out.
>promos are rare and far inbetween, almost always saved for 3 of the same talents
Also true, although Fishman has the different outlook on promos. Unlike jews, they don't spam donothons and ads anymore, and in his view, the fewer outfits/OG songs/Covers talents do, the more efficient they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFG5AJ38p6U&t=3560s

Phase's choice is a slow and steady approach, with more focus on the growth of Phase box rather than selected talents.

>>75162317
This should be before.

>>75140041
It's a 50% cut AFTER Youtube takes their 30% cut first.

>>75137611
2% from a large base>50% from a tiny base

>>75143524
My sides

>>75168486
>Niji
>Large base
lol
lmao
Victoria still earns less than minimum wage btw

>>75149582
comparing corpo cuts for vsj members are very odd depending on if they stream consistently on twitch or not. The best way of determining how many subs someone has is looking at their sub point goal (that they may or may not have in their 'about' page), looking at that number and taking away 10%.

If we compare the two biggest / most consistent vsj members like zen and mouse (henry doesn't show her sub points at all so i can't use her), we can look at what they make pretty easily. Zen has 7500 sub points give or take. take away 10% to account for any tier 2 or tier 3's in there and we get 6750 subs overall. With a 70/30 split to twitch, zen likely gets somewhere around $34,000 USD a month just from subs alone. With mouse it's even bigger, with a sub point of roughly 12,000 - 1200 (10%), mouse likely has a sub count around 10800. meaning mouse gets $50k a month just from subs alone (no merch cuts or bits involved) Henya also probably makes a shitload as well but she doesn't show it on anywhere of her pages so we just don't know

>>75137611
kek

>>75169441
>$40
I feel like your average 300+ viewer andy on Twitch pulls more than that in donos per stream

>>75137611
nijisanji takes 98% and gives 2% to the talent

>>75143433
plus their rigging is still shit, even if not as shit as holo or niji. I don't expect Sayu quality rigs from everybody but come on.

>>75159600
>Mista and Mika are both leeching off one another
I mean, aren't they all but officially confirmed to be a couple? because then it'd make a lot of sense for them to stream together.

>>75137981
Anon misled you with those 30~35% from holo/niji
both take 50% AFTER the YT cut(30%) on superchats a.k.a "35%"
of course the rest of the channel is also 50% we just don't know metrics for that

>>75157461
Gen 1 girls have a high base salary after doing their little revolution at the beginning of the company's start

>>75143967
>also IIRC lumi's remodel was completely out of pocket for her, same with her original songs
Isn't Lumi one of the Invaders that owns her own IP? It'd make sense to tell her "We'll pay for a new model but then we own the model" and for her to decline that deal.

>>75154963
>Dizzy because she got fucked over by her sister.
What's this story?

>>75173712
After Yuri, all the invaders own their IPs. Dizzy owns Urara, Ember owns Kallin, and Jelly owns MoonJelly.
Lumi also technically owns all of the Cyberlive girls' models but that's another can of worms

>>75173924
Dizzy's sister convinced her to move with her to a more expensive rental place. Dizzy could afford it because she split the rent with her but then her sister suddenly decided to escape the country, broke the contract with the leaser, stole the couch, almost destroyed Dizzy's family in the process, and now the entire amount of the rent falls on to Dizzy.

>>75173980
>after Yuri
and this is why I'm an indie supremacist and consider all vtuber corpos to be black companies inb4 that one sperg: vshojo included

>>75170641
because this is a catalog thread I wanted to try and go as low as realistically possible by considering the other girls, mouse is a massive outlier and zen and henya as are as well to a lesser extent so it doesn't feel fair to say "hey vsj girls make this much a month" based on them. the only reason that actual dollar amounts are even relevant to the conversation rather than just cut percentages is because vshojo talent pays for their own assets which have an approximate value. it's frustrating because if you go up to a corpo fan and point out that the corp is making way more money from the talent without giving the talent even 50% of it back in paying for models/songs/projects they just plug their ears and call everybody twitch whores instead of making the effort to come to terms with the fact that their corp is fucking their oshi over

>>75149582
>So looking at Holo stats, the most popular average around 10kUSD/mo in revenue
That's not even remotely accurate, and we know that from Cover's financial reports.
They average about $2 million yearly revenue per vtuber (give or take, yen keeps dropping) and they have 86 vtubers. So that's not even close for the average talent and there's a huge difference between top and bottom.

In Q3 they paid their talents 1.168 billion yen in remuneration. Divide that between the 86 talents and you get a little under $90k each for the quarter, or ~$30k a month per talent. (depending on exchange rate)
That includes all them from members like Pekora/Suisei/Miko/Gura to people like Uyu and the other holostars, so there's a pretty huge variance between top and bottom there.

>>75146449
Vshojo doesn't take cuts for sponsorships / merch they are not working on.

>>75174407
yeah that variance is why I was going purely by revenue on their channels rather than revenue including merch, we don't know what the percentage is on merch nor how much is sold. no one is arguing cover talent doesn't make a lot of money because it's obvious they do, it's more about how much is the company making off of them compared to what the company provides for them, I do think in that regard they're the best of the corps but for the others, the cut that they ask for really doesn't seem worth it

>>75174367
sure ok, i think the average across all vsj members on twitch would be around 4000 to 5000 sub points overall, so I'm just going to say it's around 4250 to be on the lower end, that still means that a majority of vsj members make around $21k a month at the LEAST from subs without merch, bits, superchats on youtube (if they do stream on youtube) or sponsorships. and yes i understand dumbing down the argument against other corpos cause some people just see the pink V corp and get really assblasted about it but it's still weird to see how people discredit indies without much backing.

>>75174080
Sounds like Dizzy needs to get another roommate.

>>75173712
>>75173980
>>75174286
Man there's a lot of shit I could say right now to debunk some common public misconceptions as a drunk insider but I'll get myself into hot waters by doing that so it's against my interest.

>>75174859
didn't phase steal Yuri's IP?

Scam connect

>>75155907
Seems like Sayu is talking about industry standard based on her previous experience in a corpo. 50% of the remaining cut after YouTube cut(30%) does come out to be 35% of the whole.

>>75141628
Where is the merch phasekeks?

>>75143967
Kek

>>75175057
like pippa's tr00n socks? rumao

>>75174859
Let me guess, you'll spill it in tTwo weeks?

>>75175143
It's in my best interest not to spill anything, so I won't.

>75175207
Then fuck off

>>75174939
I've never heard this story in a way that actually paints Phase as a bad actor. Yuri came into Phase and signed a contract, presumably Phase was clear on what the contract contained give how all the other talents talk about how straightforward those meetings are. I'd assume that since Lumi retains her IP the deal is that if you retain your IP you get less of a revenue cut or something along those lines, but that's just speculation. What's the argument that Phase acted in bad faith?

It amazes me to no end where catalog will hate a company and "who' it, and then suddenly believe everything about it and make bold claims through non primary sources

>>75175312
I hate all companies.

>>75174687
Yeah I was just pointing out that the holo stats revenue tab really isn't accurate, don't think it ever has been

>>75175407
based

>>75149582
>>75170641
>>75174367
>>75174691

Stating VShojo income > Hololive income for equally popular Vtubers is not wrong. And to generalize it a bit more Indie > VShojo > Hololive > Nijisanji. (Insert smaller corpo where appropriate.)

You don't even need to see the contracts. It's obvious by the amount of control each one has over their IP (incl. merch).

But comparing public SC revenue, which is all VTStats tracks to subs is comparing apples to oranges.

At least use the minimum number of memberships (equiv of subs for YouTube) based off chat statistics if you want to compare income from that revenue stream:
https://holochatstats.info/members

>>75177340
brainlet take, even if you're equally popular you have vastly more merch, collaboration and event opportunities with hololive

>>75177495
it's not really a brainlet take desu, most indie and vsj members have a constant stream of merch rolling in and a ton of sponsorships as well (NIKKE just did one with Vshojo for their 1.5 Year anniversary) and whilst you are right that they likely aren't going to go into the mainstream like hololive does with EDF or japanese specific brands that they can specifically cater to, it doesn't mean that they don't make a serious amount of money either way. I guess it's more that in a company like hololive, no matter if you stream or not, you'll still get opportunities to go places and get merch and sponsorships no matter how many hours you put in whilst indies and small corpos don't get that privilege.

>>75163450
It feels weird to say but I'm totally happy with the "karaoke" experience covers. They don't need to blow like 4 months and 20k on an MV. Just singing it is fine. Better recording and mixing is nice too but it's more about them just singing. So I hope some of Marine's scuffed covers helps get people to break out of the abusive animation pit

>>75178639
It depends on what the MV is intended to do. If you're trying to use it as a branding tool or to onboard new viewers it's better to go high quality. It lands better. If the goal is to give something cleaned up to the fans then going all out doesn't contribute as much. The common pitfall I see is people trying to go high quality for everything, which makes it not special and so never land how they want it to. But they do it because "I'm an idol!"

>>75163450
>n his view, the fewer outfits/OG songs/Covers talents do, the more efficient they are.
chinese businessman retardation
new outfits = more merchandise opportunities
OG Songs & Covers = more collaboration opportunities
he wants to make the chinesium of vtubers

>>75177926
It's not a privilege to have to cover the down payment and overhead costs. I do think phase should do more pre-order style merch offers to keep costs down but there's no real way to win. People will talk hot shit all day long in chat and online but they wont put their money on the merch when it's time. It also still costs ~800-2k+ for the prototype which they can fail to get enough pre-orders to cover the minimum production size and all the other costs so it's just a kick to the nuts.

>>75178895
Hey kid you can go do all the animation they need for OG songs and covers right now. They love doing it, it's just expensive and gets only a fraction of the views while jacknifing their algo profile.

>>75164589
But the Phase 50% cut is after

>>75178980
proof?

>>75179202
I believe a talent accidentally revealed it

>>75179301
not beating the black corpo allegations kek

>>75179344
Ok what's your source

>>75175407
Same. I spread Hololive, Nijisanji, Phase, Vshojo, Idol, and Brave group rrats.

>>75173980
>the invaders own their IPs. Dizzy owns Urara, Ember owns Kallin, and Jelly owns MoonJelly.
Yeah of course they still own their indie personas. Lumi and Yuri came into Phase without a rebrand.
Dizzy most likely does not own Dizzy, for example.

>>75179928
>b-but phase d-didn't steal e-every invader's PL's!
is not the win you think it is. even niji doesn't steal PL's, that's how low *your* corpo is.

>>75180129
>even niji doesn't steal PL's
They just legally force the livers to delete or private all their content. Totally not the same thing.

>>75180129
???
If the other invaders had joined Phase using their original personas, then they would probably be forfeiting the IP just like Yuri did.
All it means is that they were smart enough to choose a rebrand instead.

The only other real comparison (that I can think of) is Suisei, who joined Hololive without a new character and is to date the only Holo who owns her IP.

>>75180129
You have to be retarded bro

>>75180129
I love catalog
I really love catalog

>>75180129
Why are you even here you retarded tourist?

>>75137981
>corpo dickrider cope
You love to see it

>>75180223
>or private all their content. Totally not the same thing.
it's not even comparable, phasecuck. Sayu, Doki and Mint could all resume PL activities when they were freed.
>>75180269
>The only other real comparison (that I can think of) is Suisei, who joined Hololive without a new character and is to date the only Holo who owns her IP.
it's nice to see exceptions even in the corpo realm.
>>75180531
corpocvcks are truly subhuman.
Sayu love!

>>75141628
Phase invests a lot into giving free tote bags at cons

>>75180577
Wayu love
Corpocuck contempt

>>75137611
>2% merch
I feel like that cant have always been the cut or that they have different contracts
Because I remember when Selen was pretty new and she had her first couple of merchruns in NijiEN, she shilled them hard. Like way harder than voice packs and SCs and shit. Now Selen has always been a merchfag so I would totally believe her still shilling merch harder than vps/SCs if the merch cut was slightly worse than the others. Like Selen sees herself as a merch chuuba over a dono chuuba so taking slightly less money I could see. But if she literally only got 2% from the start I just dont understand why she would shill them so hard?

Maybe the cuts are different from first to second contract, or NijiEN changed contracts a few years in or something

>>75180577
I really don't believe you've ever stepped foot outside the catalog

>>75181167
not an argument, phasecuck.

>>75181242
>I'm retarded
Nice comeback

>>75181242
Here, I'll make it a statement: You've never been outside catalog

>>75181297
still not an argument