/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

Of all the things to get mad about, the translation job so far for Holo stuff is not one of them.
Don't think I've ever seen something that's been a real issue

you have no idea what you are talking about. check 'em.

>>73517608
Anon, have you ever watched hologra?
Out of all the shit that could have zoomer memes and translations, that is literally one of the ones where it's appropriate.

>>73517608
There's two schools of thought, neither of which is entirely correct. Some people think you should translate exactly, but you lose important cultural context with a pure mechanical translation. Some people think you should instead try to convey the underlying meaning of the text more so than the exact translation, but that runs the risk of producing a translation so utterly removed from the actual script as to be something entirely different. Ultimately translation has to be a balancing act between the two.

>>73517608
Like people always say, you can't spell Translator without Trans

>>73517608
Go back to pol

>>73517716
My main gripe has always been them trying to translate introductions or word tics into an English equivalent, when like someone says their name with a combination of hi/hello/etc in JP and turns it into some cringe in EN. Its also just an annoying trend among localizers in going mask off about how their job is apparently not to accurately translate shit

>>73517608
"I am not in the business of translation." - Localizer.
That's pretty much all you need to hear.

>>73517796
So that means just put poggers and rizz or whatever other shit in instead of what's being said in Japanese? Got it

>>73517608
You are a fucking retard, please go kill yourself

>>73517834
>Wanting accurate translations makes you a pol faggot
How in the fuck did we get to this argument

>>73517911
learn japanese

>>73517608
I stopped watching hologra more than a year ago when they started using ebonics and zoomer garbage in their translations. why can't these subhumans just do their job.

>>73517895
Like I said, these people just go mask off themselves about what they are really about. They don't care about accurately translating something in order to maintain authenticity to the original language, all they care about is batardiszing the dialogue for "mug western sensibilities"

>>73517959
Imagine thinking that the humor of an insular xenophobic island nation with a language so far removed from english that it is one of the hardest ones to learn as an english speakers can be just word for word translated to english
please give a blowjob to a shotgun

>>73517822
>Some people think you should translate exactly
EOP without a clue
>Some people think you should instead try to convey the underlying meaning of the text
literally every translator ever

>>73517999
Nice npc rebuttal. And before you even think of "i'm sure you wouldn't care if they did the same thing for EN>JP translations", I would. If the EN dialogue is using zoomer lingo or whatever, then that should be kept in the JP translation too.

>>73517911
Anon, have you seen the hologra?
They're entirely zoomer shits for kids. They're chaotic and spastic. That's exactly the time where shit like "poggers" is appropriate.

>>73517959
Define "accurate". For 砂を噛むようwould you rather use the translation "like chewing on sand" which is more mechanically correct or "like watching paint dry" which more accurately conveys the meaning.

why would i want to see a bunch of western zoomer lingo instead of japanese zoomer lingo? if i wanted the western bs i would just watch some twitch fleshstreamer minstrel show like kaicenat

>trannylator, run of the mill anime or game company
>"Fuck this subhuman! He's ruining my experience!"
>trannylator, blue dorito
>"Actually, he's right. And if you hate him you're a nijinigger."
Make it make sense...

>>73518067
See, this kind of smug ass response with 0 actual sentiment is exactly why people hate you localization dick riders. Also has absolutely nothing to do with how apparently being anti-localization and wanting a foreign piece of media to retain its "foreignness" when translated, makes one a polfag

>>73518158
neither is what a "translate it accurately" guy would consider correct, so go dilate instead of lying on the internet

>>73517608
I'm more concerned about the kind of drugs they hit before making an episode of HoloGra, and where can I buy it.

>>73518067
diversity for israel

>>73518202
You are a mouth breather and everyone that you meet thinks that you are annoying as fuck

>>73518245
How would you translate it then retard.

>>73518178
the holoturd hypocrisy is embarrassing

>>73517608
>I DISLIKE translation notes
I understand this sentiment, but personally I think that you SHOULD translate accurately things which may require an explanation to the audience.
I think there SHOULD be a collection of translators' notes attached to the work (not existing within it e.g. on-screen overlay) explaining the translator's thought process and reasoning for any changes in dialogue (e.g., a pun or joke that doesn't make sense in the target language) and to explain details from the work that the reader may not immediately understand.

This is a common practice for classic literature, especially those which have undergone multiple translations. My collection of HP Lovecraft stories for example has a large section of the book dedicated to explaining background information of the author, cross-referencing other stories, and defining now-outdated cultural references and attitudes.

More recently, the famously excellent MOTHER 3 translation received an entire book written by the head of the project detailing the whole translation process.

This amount of effort and transparency should be the standard.

>>73517844
Localization *is* accurate, it's just not *identical,* because more often than not (especially with Japanese->English), a direct translation doesn't sound natural.

The problem comes when some dipshit liberal arts degree thinks this gives them the creative liberty to try out their skills as a writer. God forbid they have the ego to consider their ideas better than the original author's.

>>73518109
Ok, does the original JP dialogue actually have them saying poggers and shit? If not then keep it the fuck out, FGO NA has this exact problem and is one of the reasons why I dropped it. Or how they completely killed Osakabehime's character turning her into a weeb, when she was meant to be a hidden otaku

>>73518158
I feel like people are arguing for two different things every time this comes up. When people complain about localization they're not talking about genuine questions like "how do we accurately portray this idiom" or "actually bitch means slut!!", it's "why the fuck did this idiot randomly add 'rizzler gyatt fanum tax sigma ohio skibidi' in this normal Japanese sentence which had no memes in it originally?"
There's levels to which localization is needed, but it also needs to be curated.

>>73517844
anon… it’s time you find out how “translating” works…

>>73517608
Can someone post that ancient /a/ meme of comparing different translation groups I can't find it anywhere

>>73517608
black company

>>73517608
>it excludes the vast majority of potential fans
Potential fans of what? A western zoomer-ified caricature of the JPs' real jokes and personalities?

>>73517608
you HAVE to localize when you translate, almost nothing translates 1:1
this is doubly important for things that aren't aimed at weebs who are fully immersed in japanese culture, or humor that sometimes doesn't translate at all

>>73518327
>Modern Japanese slang
>Translate into modern English slang
Dunno makes sense to me.

>>73518329
not now wittgenstein

>>73517844
Yeah it's pretty shit and honestly lazy to do stuff like translating kansai-ben into a "southern twang" to cite a common example.

Hoof hoof helloof is a more topical instance of why localizers should rope.

>>73518067
yeah none has ever translated japanese humor , series, movies or books to english, sorry to ask for such an impossible task, you may resume dilatation, tranny chan.

>>73518158
See things like this is a case-by-case basis for aspects like cultural sayings and what-not. If a saying does not make sense translating it to another language, then you use a similar saying and that's fine. All that matters is keeping the dialogue as true to what the original intent was, it becomes a problem however like in Unicorn Overlord where they translate a single sentence dialogue into a whole fluffed up paragraph for literally the entire script

>>73518169
Because despite what localization defenders say, they don't care about foreign media. They want everything they consume to be familiar to them and what they are used to, which completely kills the point of consuming foreign media in the first place

Oh, are the transliteralists getting uppity again? I'd feel bad about their autism preventing them from learning the lesson if it weren't so entertaining.

This is one of those bottom of the barrel deflection threads that Nijikeks use when they have nothing else left. lol

>>73518308

>>73517608
This kind of localisation is perfect for what it is. You can tell it's made with a genuine attempt at making the most people smile in a series that does not translate to English well at all.

The problem with localisation is actually just how often it's done in bad faith for ulterior motives. Hologra is done in good faith.

>>73518264
So no actual rebuttal again then? Thanks for contributing nothing because you don't have an actual defense for this type of localization

here come the pol brained retards who found out what localization was 6 months ago from a tweet by a guy armed with brain damage and google translate

go the fuck back

It's not a translation, it's (((localization)))

>>73517895
/thread

>>73517608
slang/memes in localization is cancer

>okabe rintaro
Why do these fucking queers always idolize that faggot from that gay fucking VN.

>>73518327
This is exactly the issue, people aren't complaining over idioms and similar things being "localized" into a more proper usage but when dialogue gets "fluffed" up to make it le heckin funni and shit is when its annoying

why is it always an eternal dekinai pushing for word-for-word translation and translation notes?

>>73518717
yaaaasss they should just word for word translate japanese zoomer slang instead
kys

>>73518421
Yeah, it makes sense if you change what I fucking said to some other thing. Let me try again.
The issue is a lot of the time there either is no slang or anything worth changing at all and they're just making shit up to make it "sound more interesting", or the level of "slang" used in the original does not match the extreme over-the-top localization they give it, i.e. using zoomer internet memes for casual Japanese.

>>73518329
I know how translating works, and its certainly not like how Capcom recently announced how it localizes games

>>73517608
I didn't expect the translate v localize turbo autism of /a/ 15 years ago to re-emerge in fucking vtubers

>>73517608
So we loop back to this?

>>73518807
Wittgenstein's concept of "language games" and his interpretation of the scholastic philosopher and theologian St. Augustine of Hippo have significant implications for the theory and practice of translation.

In his later work, particularly the Philosophical Investigations, Wittgenstein introduced the idea of "language games" to emphasize that language derives its meaning from the various contexts, practices, and forms of life in which it is used. He argued against the notion that words have fixed, essential meanings, and instead highlighted the diverse ways in which language is employed. This perspective challenges the idea that translation is a straightforward process of finding exact equivalents between languages.

Wittgenstein's examination of Augustine's view of language acquisition in the Confessions further illustrates this point. Augustine described learning language as a process of adults pointing to objects and naming them, with the child gradually understanding the meaning of these words. Wittgenstein critiqued this view, arguing that it assumes a simplistic referential theory of meaning, where words directly correspond to objects. Instead, Wittgenstein emphasized the complex ways in which language is interwoven with human practices and forms of life.

For translation, these ideas suggest that translators must be attuned to the specific contexts, practices, and language games in which the source text is embedded. A word or phrase may have different meanings and connotations depending on the particular language game being played. Translators need to consider not just the literal meaning of words, but also the broader forms of life and practices in which they are used.

Moreover, Wittgenstein's philosophy highlights the challenges of translating between different forms of life and language games. Each language is embedded in a unique cultural and historical context, with its own practices and ways of using words. Translators must navigate these differences, recognizing that exact equivalence between languages may not always be possible.

Instead of seeking perfect correspondence, translators must engage in a creative process of finding ways to convey meaning across linguistic and cultural boundaries. This may involve finding approximate equivalents, providing explanations or annotations, or even acknowledging the untranslatability of certain concepts or expressions.

In summary, Wittgenstein's ideas of language games and his interpretation of Augustine emphasize the contextual and practice-based nature of language. For translation, this highlights the need to consider the specific contexts and forms of life in which language is used, rather than assuming a simple correspondence between words and meanings. Translators must navigate the complexities and challenges of conveying meaning across different language games and cultural contexts.

>>73518771
Isn't hologra extreme, over the top, crackhead humor though? Makes sense to match that energy.

Anyone who has watched Hologra for more than couple of episodes and has IQ higher than single digits, understands that the subtitles have never been about being a direct tranlation. I guess I'm asking a lot.

>>73518847
i miss commie bros

idk about anyone else but media from other countries is basically a cultural exchange. It's interesting to see how colloquialisms, expressions, and slang shape their dialogue and humor. As an ESL who learned exclusively from western movies and literature paying attention to those cultural differences help me understand the country beyond just mindless consumption. Why would I want localslop which is explicitly done to strip all cultural identity from something and make it (((accessible))) for the "wider audience"?

>>73518611
My problem with it is that some of the same shit that they translate in Hologra, gets translated way better in fansubs through clips. Like when Luna or Pekora or anyone with a verbal tic talk they make it so cringe compared to fan subs who make it fit better

>>73518766
>yaaaasss they should just word for word translate japanese zoomer slang instead
ong it should skibidi gyatt rizzler

>>73518659
Please explain to me why pol retards would be on the anti-localization side, when localization is all about westernizing a foreign piece of media?

>>73518308
>I understand this sentiment, but personally I think that you SHOULD translate accurately things which may require an explanation to the audience.
Sure but fucking hologra as said in the screenshots is all about memes and shit. It's comedy skits and it accurate translation is not fucking funny cause you are translating weirdo japanese obscure humor then what the fucking point?
If you want japanese humor to be funny for you by itself might as well learn japanese

>>73517608
t-chan is based
op sucks shit

>>73518869
thanks chatgpt-chan.

>>73518847
take me back

>>73518982
um actually that was claude opus. show some respect for our friend

>>73518899
hologra's point is not to educate you about japanese net culture... You are free to do it by yourself but 99% of the audience won't give a fuck

>>73517608
If localization choices are made trying to preserve the original meaning and intent as much as possible, then there are no issues.

>>73518980
Go back to Discord faggot

>>73518766
>translation should translate what is being said
yes that's the point, sperg, what is your problem?

>>73518962
>learn japanese
Woah there, biggot! That's a lot more work than going full retard in /vt/. I ain't gonna do that.

>>73518955
"localization" means censorship and cultural imperialism, and polfags are against that because globohomo is for it

>>73518994
Gaijin...

>>73517608
is the person who was the reddit moderator?

>>73518322
>Actually hasn't watched Hologra
Genuinely embarrassing.

>>73517608
>even Hololive has a tranny "translating" things
amazing

>>73518994
they unironically should do something like this for april 1st
YOU READING THIS COVER? DO IT

>>73519040
would you like some rice in tea?

>>73519068
Yes. Someone post the screenshot of Diego asking him to shut down the sub due to the new debuts.

>>73518885
I wasn't trying to argue for or against Hologra's translations, I haven't watched Hologra in like 4 years, I just wanted to make the point that people seem to be talking about two different kind of arguments in these threads

>>73517608
they should bow to knuckle-dragging EOPs and give them an episode or two of literal translation hologra. maybe then they could realize just how fucking retarded an idea that would be.

>>73519018
Then what's the point of even consuming foreign media if its just going to get localized (aka bastardized) to the point where its just western talk? I remember reading a article about this Domestication and foreignization which basically goes into how foreignization is better because it retains the "foriengness" of the original country/culture. Just getting a westernized version of what is being said is not what translation "localization" should ever be

>>73518962
I realize that this would perhaps be unrealistic (although Cover certainly has the budget), but if it can't be translated in an accurate way then ideally you would make a different version written from the start in the target language that uses the same conceptual skeleton as the original skit.

Though having watched some extremely Japanese comedy myself, I can't imagine that it's THAT densely untranslatable.

>>73519166
what would you do when they become more popular than ever

>>73517911
Anon I think its time for you to just accept that you're becoming a bitter old man yelling at clouds

>>73519166
I think they should start making Hologra only in English. If you want to be in it, learn english princess.

>>73517608
So that's how desperate Nijiniggers are these days, huh
Anyways, here's your (You), go cash it in for a coupon or whatever you're paid in these days (Niji AR Live Tickets?)

>>73518994
I hope people who unironically use these arguments against fansubs in favor of official localization, realize that these were always trolling by the fan groups. Like the infamous according to keikaku was obviously not something they did seriously

Translation is already shaky because it's impossible to do a 1:1 where you preserve the intent and meaning of the source material. You're always losing some part of the original message by the mere act of translating. Localization however is objectively worse because you're now subject to the whims of the person doing it, and *their* vision of source material. If I wanted to watch something like that why don't they just hand it over to the fucking yugioh abridged series team and just let them make shit up about what the hologra episode is about they'd probably come up with something funnier.

The target audience justifies the choices made by translator. If it works, it works.


What people here think is of no importance.

>>73519051
But isn't that ironic tho? Wouldn't the anti-imperialists/colonialists be the ones against this type of localization because its essentially a form of western cultural imperialism, but completely altering a foreign thing just to conform it to "western standards"

>>73517608
It's always funny how nobody has an issue until someone tells them it's localisation and suddenly they're concerned.
Learn Japanese and turn off the subs if you want it in Japanese, it's that simple.

>>73519403
not ironic
everything those people ever say is a lie

>>73519166
Nice! Then maybe I could stomach to watch a subbed Hologra for more than 5 seconds without seeing cringe translated dialogue that was never said in JP

>japanese hobby
>he didn't learn japanese

try harder

>>73518328
This one?

>>73517608
I think you're a moron with actual psychosis. A direct translation is always inferior to a localization.

>let me watch this japanese conto (comedy sketch for you non-rep doing faggots)
>written by japanese writers
>done by japanese actors
>HUHHH? I DON'T UNDERSTAND???? CAN SOMEONE CHANGE THIS INTO SOMETHING I CAN UNDERSTAND PLEASE?
the absolute entitlement of braindead EOP localization niggers

>>73519221
"the accurate way" for comedy show would be joke funny and analogues to the original one
>Then what's the point of even consuming foreign media if its just going to get localized
it's not rocket science and hologra is not some kind of thinking man entertainment.
It's done for shit and giggles and that's exactly how it is translated

>>73517608
No polshit implied, but sorry return to mobke is just a bad translation. Its like those old jrpgs with "get to the center of a tootsie pop" jokes.

>>73519411
>the script being fucked beyond all recognition is.... LE GOOD

>>73519462
turn subtitles off dummy

>>73517608
They need to fire this fucking tard already, should have been done during the tempiss drama when they outed themselves like a fucking retard on discord back then

>>73519624
how did you come up with this scenario?

The pro-localization argument falls apart the moment you look at every localizer's Twitter bio to see blm, pronouns, etc.

>>73519747
>people on the site for mentally ill people are mentally ill
STOP THE PRESSES

>>73517844
My least favorite thing is when translators try to dejapanise japanese media. It seem to only apply to japanese stuff too, no one complains when novels have random "mademoiselle" thrown in.

>>73519699
Realistically the whole industry is in trouble since translation is the one area where ai can seriously replace workers. Its being done already in areas like manga.

>>73519747
now think how did it turn out that way

The anti-localization argument falls apart the moment you look at every anti localizer's Twitter bio to see swastikas, blue checkmarks, etc

>>73519607
Bootlicking faggot is what you are, this is not the hobby for you if you cannot enjoy it without le epic western dialogue and shit

>>73519710
Look at all the arguments that say
>it loses the humor if you stick to the japanese script!
>they're just writing the equivalent memes for a western audience!
>just watch in japanese if you don't like it!

>>73519065

>>73519747
>he doesn't know
Anon... even the 'translator' are troons

>>73519629
It might just be "shits and giggles" but that doesn't mean the original team behind it didn't work hard to make it. And I think their effort should be appropriately reflected and respected by the translation work.

>>73517608
I'm totally out of the loop about the translation/localization war but it's very funny how one side's arguments is just "you are a nazi"
lmfao

>>73517608
The main problem with a good localizations is that they think the audience is dumber than they actual are and will change things that don't need to be change.
They think that they understand all the Japanese things because they speak Japanese, and think that other people won't get it because they don't know Japanese.
It's funny, last samurai and localizers believe almost the exact same things.

>>73519805
>Not wanting foreign media to be completely westernized makes you a Nazi
See that's actually not the case, but if you go to literally every major localizer for JP>EN media you'll see that they are the same pronoun fucks

>>73518962
Its skits for people that like japanese media. You are watching hololive, you know about japanese culture.

Probably will never happen but I wish this can just be done by an uncaring machine instead of a fallible human with biases and agenda tbdesu

>>73517608
Go back to Ifunny

>>73519891
it's really simple:
>troon localizer tries to force western idpol shit into japanese stuff
>people hate this
>troon deflects by calling them nazi chuds

>>73519891
Which literally makes no sense, cause if someone was a Nazi then they'd only care about their own cultural entertainment and not foreign ones. This whole debacle is just ridiculous where you have progressives defensing the literal bastardization of foreign media, because its implied that westernizing it makes it superior and apparently "improves the script" as many have said

>>73518327
Stop being rational! Do you know where you are ?!

>>73519875
you realize that making it somewhat appropriate and funny is tremendously much more effort than just "accurately" translating it?

>>73519747
There are plenty of good localizations out there, but you don't hear about them because... well, they're good. Which means nobody gets online to bitch about it.
And the people responsible aren't ideologically motivated to defend how they do their work on Twitter.

>>73519953
I just wish everyone interested in japanese media just learned japanese instead

>>73519953
Cool, lets see who owns, invests, and makes these 'uncaring machine'

>>73517608
As much as I hate "localizers" with a passion, it's fucking Hologra. Localizing retarded shit for funsies fits for once because the entire thing is just retarded shit for funsies.

>>73517608
Can you not tell? Do you not have ears?

>>73519929
Surely if you like watching japanese media you don't even need subtitles... right? Right???

>>73520042
I think that you can do both at the same time, in the majority of cases.

>>73520091
No you need proper subtitles, this is not a good argument. Its like saying if you like cheese you must own a cow.

>>73518328
here
>>73518847

>>73519953
Its called google translate

>>73520087
On top of that, Hologra now has people from outside just Japan so even trying to begin to argue about a literal translation is so absurdly retarded that OP can't be serious.

Anti localizers making mountains out of molehills again. Reminds me of a situation where the character in a manga says
>I don't have a problem with people with that lifestyle, but I'm not gay
which was localized as
>I'm an ally but I personally don't swing that way
Is there a problem with that? Preserves the same meaning, seamlessly translated into modern culture.

>>73520071
Oy vey!

Localization as a concept is fine. Its a necessary and important part of most translation work. The actual problem is the localizers themselves. Its not the process, its the people. Localization is a job that requires an extensive amount of skill and mastery not just in both languages, but also in creative writing and copywriting. Hiring people with the required skillset comes with great cost. Naturally, the problem is no one is willing to pay these costs for stuff like this or games and other assorted media, with wages being below minimum wage and job requirements being almost non-existent. As a result, the quality of the work is way, way below acceptable, and a lot of the people doing the work are underskilled people from very poor countries like SEA willing to accept the paltry wages (and they aren't even English natives).

But lets be honest, none of you care about any of this shit. You only care about epic western memes or politics in your translations, and I'm talking about both involved parties (pro and anti-localization). The quality of localization in this sort of media will never, ever improve as things stand, and a key factor in why, besides cost, is that no one involved gives a shit, and that includes (You).

Pretty much everything I said also applies to why English dubs of Japanese media is also garbage, by the way.

>>73520201
Pretty great bait mate, I rate it 8/8

>>73518766
Yes, that way I get to learn the zoomy japanese words and my mind is expanded

>>73520116
humor is hard as fuck to translate and japanese meme hologra humor is even harder.
Like hologra is pretty much literally outside of "majority of cases"

>>73520201
>Anti localizers
>that retarded example
Oh, that tells me everything I need to know about you on this. Even if OP is indeed being retarded arguing against zoomerisms on zoomer-tier videos, you're a fucking faggot trying to conflate gays with your alphabet soup bullshit.

>>73520201
nc1

>>73520320
>But lets be honest, none of you care about any of this shit. You only care about epic western memes or politics in your translations, and I'm talking about both involved parties (pro and anti-localization). The quality of localization in this sort of media will never, ever improve as things stand, and a key factor in why, besides cost, is that no one involved gives a shit, and that includes (You).
Dangerously based.

>>73520201
simple. nobody likes hearing people who call themselves a self proclaimed ally. meanwhile saying "not that there's anything wrong with that" is a normal way to react. So the localization instantly creates a negative image of the person while the first one doesn't!

>>73520147
pff How about you stop being a retarded EOP instead?

>>73520201
Ok but there are more egregious examples that happen. Like when a female character says "If I was a guy i'd totally try to date you", and gets localized into "If I was gay i'd totally try to date you" cause we can't have any notion about not including gay representation or whatever. Or how most gendered dialogue gets completely removed "oh wow X is being so manly today" turning into "yeah X is looking mighty riztastic on this fine Monday," Shits annoying and it happens

>>73517608
I haven't watched all the videos but the few I did were ok, as long as he doesn't go full anime/game localizer retard everything is fine

>>73520201
It's not a grave sin but I can nitpick this translation
I think using "ally" without defining what it means in this context could lose some people who aren't tuned into the language used in LGBT activism.
And of course, the activism which is implicit in using the word "ally," which is not demonstrated in the original line. There's an entire culture around "being an ally" and the original line presents a more laissez-faire approach to the topic.

Devil's in the details, y'know

>>73520320
Reminder.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201023015823/http://www.carpefulgur.com/drakblog/?p=41
Though some of these same people also argue now in favor of retarded stuff in translations, so I guess the translators cultural biases also play a part.

if you don't like english you can listen to it in japanese instead
the translations are made for people who are presumed to know english and only english, not aimed at n5s who since they can't listen to japanese proper instead want the subtitles to have 70 TL notes to teach them all the Japanese phrases they haven't bothered to learn yet

>>73520465
It sounds like you're just mind poisoned by too much 4chan desu

>>73517608
Isn't this total faggot also their leddit mod? The same mod that was pinning all the homo shit to the top but flat out ignoring Sora's concerts 3 years running?

>>73519891
leftist once again believe they are special and owners of change so they treat localization as creative writing so now people have started to prefer direct translations which makes these subhumans shit and cry.

>>73517608
came here ready to shit on the localizer
but this t-chan explanation is valid and nothing much to complain about

>>73520087
Maybe for you but when I see some shit like "return to monke" that the girl obviously didn't say it just takes me out of the "for funsies" mood
Make adjustments sure but don't just invent bullshit

>>73517608
Just as long as he's not part of the SBI or funimation fem bregade I think it's acceptable.

>>73520540
I do agree that if you really care you should learn the language, but it shouldn't be the expectation that there's gonna be a guy there whose entire job it is is to ensure you can't trust what you're reading.

>>73520588
Yes, he's the certified troon within the EN branch and has been there for a while

>>73520714
They're all part of the same cult

>>73520628
JP holos are doing monke jokes all the time so it's not even that inappropriate

>>73520588
I have no idea how this retard hasn't lost his job yet over dumb shit like that
WHY is he even discussing this stuff in a discord anyway

>>73520622
>Valid
"My job is not to translate"
huh?

>>73519803
Because the drive for purpose and dopamine in a Libetal civilization created a stand alone complex which drove leftist activists to seek positions of power in every single institution of cultural influence

>>73520796
>doing monke jokes all the time
poop jokes*

>>73518178
let me help you
anime localizer
>I changed this and that because it SHOULD BE INCLUSIVE TO MY AGENDA
dorito localizer
>I changed this and that so it can be understood without a single knowledge of japanese

>>73520628
>that the girl obviously didn't say
Anon, that's pretty much how ES/LATAM dub works. Almost famously even in some cases.

how are you even supposed to translate things like "konyappi!" or "konaqua!" anyways?

>>73520320
>You only care about epic western memes or politics in your translations
Wrong, and I'll give you an example that really set me the fuck off when I saw it.

There is a scene in the middle of the credits of Final Fantasy XV where Noctis and his friends are having their last campout before the end (for context, they all understand that Noctis will have to sacrifice himself to defeat the villain).
Noctis gives a heartfelt talk to the buddies he's known his whole life and the player has spent the entire game with, demonstrating his gratitude for having them in his life.

At the very end of the scene, Noctis tells them
>俺、お前のことが好きだわ
Or something along the lines of "I love you guys."
This was localized as...
>You guys... are the best.
Which COMPLETELY deflates the emotional weight and vulnerability of the original line. And why? What, can't say you love your homies? Is it too gay?

THIS is bad localization.

>>73520796
Anon, I'm not talking monkey jokes. I'm talking about "return to monke" which is a specific English meme
Translate it to a monkey joke sure go ahead, don't use a literal wording that only exists as a niche english meme

It's the same issue as the Nagatoro sus translation. It's not that the word "sus" is some obscure term no one uses, but it takes me out of the experience of watching japanese content and instead reminds me of some gay faggot trying to be a comedian on twitter

i'm sick of both translators and eops thinking japanese is some esoteric complicated language who's intricacies and culture is a massive undertaking in understanding. it's not some mystic magical language that the feeble english mind can't comprehend, maybe in actually writing it just because the alphabets can be annoying, but in terms of what's actually being said, it really isn't that complicated.

>>73520916
why would you need to?

>>73520852
Both should be criticized if they are wrong, i hate localization but I have also seen my share of questionable decisions by fan translations who were extreemly liberal with their decisions. Like on the top of my head was 100 girlfriends manga when they made of the girls speak like a Brit when she was using an older style of Japanese originally

>>73520902
Ok I didn't ask what you're retarded spic ass countries do I'm talking about what I want from my content.
If you're happy with gay monkey memes from twitter you're welcome to go on discord and suck T chan off some more

>>73520575
It's a contextless example. If the character demonstrated beyond this one line that they were an active supporter of LGBT, then I wouldn't object to calling him an ally in English.
But I don't have that context, so I have to take the line in a vacuum.

>>73520916
HiRys

>>73520852
EVERYTHING SHOULD BE LITERAL AND INCLUDE TL NOTES
I WANT EVERY AKIRA KUROSAWA FILM TO HAVE A FUCKING BIBLE OF TL NOTES SHOWN ON SCREEN AT ALL TIMES

>>73520918
Fag

>>73518178
Everything on /vt/ is backwords
>popular = good
>new = good
>girls > boys
>male-female interaction is homosexual

>>73521003
Anon, again, it's literal zoomer-tier shit for zoomer-tier skits. It's not in any way comparable to shit like >>73520201 or >>73520918.

>>73520201
>Is there a problem with that? Preserves the same meaning, seamlessly translated into modern culture.
????
Nigga I don't care about gay people, BUT I am not an "ally", I won't defend a gay person being harassed on the street

>>73520950
would you like some rice in tea?

>>73521104
So everything should be localized into your world view? Interesting

>>73520733
in a functioning TL group the translators have say of whether the english editor fucked up the meaning of the scene in any of their changes, so it can get fixed, before it gets released

>>73520916
I think it depends on whether its being translated vocally or just through dialogue. If its being translated vocally like for an EN dub then these things don't really need to even be translated. But if its just being subbed, then there's no reason to try making an EN equivalent but just keeping what they said. Fan subs for Holo do that exactly, they keep the member's greetings and verbal tics what they said, instead of trying to uwuify or whatever the dialogue like when Luna talks

>>73520916
"Suppies" and "A-quality day to one and all" obviously. Duh.

>>73521104
This. The first one implies I consider them people as any other, and as I would do to any people, if they're being harassed on the street, I'll just keep walking. The second implies I'd be one of those orbiters and white knights.

>>73517608
While some of the Hologra translations can be a bit cringe (though that's usually more their use of emoticons rather than le epic maymays), and I personally do prefer translation notes to localisation, Hologra is also so short and rapidfire that it's one of the few cases where translation notes just aren't practical.
And in fairness to T-chan, Hologra relies heavily on puns. With translation notes not being practical and puns being difficult to translate at best, cringe localisation is basically the best they can do.

>>73521199
>trying to uwuify or whatever the dialogue like when Luna talks
I'd go the full mile, pull a Nisio Isin, and just use brackets on any of Luna's subs, unless she reverts to regular voice like on that one Haachama clip for example.

>>73521104
Anon that is absolutely a bad translation dude, terrible translation. Translators need to stop behaving like authors, its ridiculous, its not your work.

>>73521210
notes are unnecessary
intentional mistranslation is also unnecessary

>>73520916
Go full autismo and leave it as is.

>>73521335
Was it a author of a gay manga or just a regular one that went menhera over foreigners shitting up his work so much he started looking for AI alternatives?

>>73520950
This is one of my pet peeves with it too, localizers will like take a character saying 1 sentence in JP and try to stretch it out as much as they can to add more flavor or fluff or whatever. Its so ridiculous because the character will originally say something like "now its time to go home everyone" and it get translated into something like "oh boy would you like at the time guys, my internal clock is ringing right now and its time to head home before I forget where I live again."

>>73521190
a word is not a world view
ALLY has a meaning with or without LGBT context

>>73518329
>>73518869
>>73519005
The debate between liberal and exact approaches to translation is a fascinating one, involving the perspectives of Ludwig Wittgenstein, St. Augustine, and Vladimir Nabokov. Here’s a comparison of their views:

Wittgenstein’s Language Games: Wittgenstein’s concept of “language games” suggests that the meaning of words is shaped by their use in specific contexts1. He argued that language is an activity, woven into the fabric of life, and that words have meaning only within the “games” they are part of. This view could support a more liberal approach to translation, where the translator seeks to convey the meaning as it would be understood in the target language’s cultural and linguistic context1.

St. Augustine’s View: St. Augustine’s early thoughts on language, as interpreted by Wittgenstein, posited that words are primarily labels for objects2. However, this view is considered by Wittgenstein to be a simplification, not accounting for the complexity of language use. Augustine’s broader work suggests a deep interest in the nuances of language, which could imply a more nuanced approach to translation than a simple one-to-one correspondence between words and objects3.

Nabokov’s Exactness: Nabokov, on the other hand, was a proponent of exact translation. He believed that the translator’s duty is to be as faithful as possible to the original text, preserving its form, content, and style4. Nabokov’s approach is less about adapting the text to the target audience and more about maintaining the integrity of the original work.

Similarities and Differences:

Similarity: All three thinkers acknowledge the complexity of language and the importance of context in understanding meaning.
Difference: Wittgenstein and Augustine (as interpreted by Wittgenstein) lean towards understanding language as a dynamic and context-dependent system, which could justify a more liberal translation approach. Nabokov, however, emphasizes fidelity to the original text, even if it means retaining complexities that might not easily translate across cultures.

Why Nabokov’s View Prevails: While the liberal approach aims for the translated text to be easily understood and culturally relevant to the target audience, Nabokov’s exact approach ensures that the original author’s voice, style, and nuanced meaning are preserved. This is particularly important in literary translations, where the beauty and intricacy of the original text are considered integral to the work. Nabokov’s method respects the original work’s literary and artistic merit, ensuring that readers of the translation can experience the text as closely as possible to how it was intended by the author.

In conclusion, while liberal translation prioritizes accessibility and cultural relevance, Nabokov’s exact approach prioritizes the integrity and artistic value of the original text.

>>73517608
There's a reason why this kind of localization drama only happens in the English-speaking world. English speakers only know one language so they don't truly understand how different languages can be and that what they're asking for is in many cases impossible.

>>73521402
I think it was a crossdressing manga that twitter translators keep trying to make it about non binary and trans stuff, when it was explicitly about crossdressing characters.

A reminder that the only time where it's acceptable to just do whatever you want in translation is either on zoomer shit, or on Ghost Stories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4VqZTKY38Y

>>73520797
That reminds me of the retarded response they gave to someone asking that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/104gyo8/this_place_has_changed/j39yfe7/
>a lot of fans in that server visit the subreddit too. It is, in many ways, a way for me to not be a COVER employee and to just be -me-...
They use their employee name, post as an employee, and share things only an employee would know, but nah, they're only there as a FAN. Really, you'd think the employee of a vtuber company would understand the importance of keeping their work and personal accounts separate...

>>73521134
food is something you don't have to worry about needing the english equivalent for. you can still call it ochazuke and nobody would bat an eye, just like how we don't call burritos "little donkeys" or pretzels "folded arms" or calzones "trousers"

>>73521512
This is exactly why other languages don't have nearly as much localization issues in regards to translating from JP, I hear it all the time where a French/Spanish/etc person says that the manga or game or whatever they played/read had dialogue that was accurate to the original script. "Chained Soldier" is a good recent example, where the original JP title literally has slave in the name and every other language but EN kept slave in the name. But oh no western sensibilities and the word slave, can't have that

>>73520918
I agree with everything you said but unfortunately you're the outlier in this discourse. If it doesn't involve inserting politics or memes, no one is really going to get outraged.

>>73521547
Ghost stories dub is such a shit example, its memorable because of it being a 1-off instance

>>73521763
And I am not asking you if you want ochazuke, I am telling you to fuck off and that you have overstayed your welcome. Guess you cannot translate shit word for word retard
Go and learn japanese and japanese culture

>>73517844
There are things that even if translated accurately people really won't understand it or understand it well because they are far removed from that culture.

>>73521535
lel, isn't the crossdressing culture kind of a thing in area 11 too? must've hurt seeing the gaijin trying to twist his thing into their thing

>>73521411
when it's in animation, i can understand the issue arising, since it comes down to needing to structure the script so that it will still fit in the animation(but there are obviously better ways to do this). with manga, it makes no sense to do this.

>>73517608
Translators sure are getting shit on nowadays at a rapid rate
Which is awesome, it's time to learn nihongo.

>>73521547
>>73521827
Nobody ever mentions Samurai Pizza Cats in these conversations anymore, shamefur dispray

>>73521907
but anon, by providing a cultural idea i didn't catch before and then teaching it through this direct method, i would now understand it in other contexts and would probably be able to better understand it in other media or real life contexts that'd use it. this also enriches someone who has limited knowledge of a subject and is now better of for knowing, meaning direct translation is beneficial. If you had not done this, then we'd learn nothing

>>73522031
I see your Samurai Pizza Cats and raise you one What's Up, Tiger Lily?
comedy mistranslations have always been popular
the complaint /here/ is always about our cartoon friends being americanized or trooned out (same thing)

>official TL's thinks that localization should not be a translation

Maybe because localization and translation are two different things you fucking moron. 1:1 Japanese to English translation would be an absolute nightmare to read, though you're probably some ESL faggot who can't read English properly anyway.

Want it in pure Japanese? そのために日本語を学ぶべきだ. Want it to make sense to a native English speaker who has no background in Japanese culture? That's what localization is for you dumb motherfucker.

>>73520320
This is a lot to say vs. you still can't learn nipponese.

>>73521920
But then at that point it becomes of a question of how much of the original culture to keep. If you completely change everything to fit in for a different audience, then its no longer a foreign piece of media but just a fan fiction of what someone wrote of it

>>73522270
Everyone watching hologra has some inkling of Japanese culture.
Nobody new is watching this shit. They are retarded and shouldn't try to act like the hated American localization anime dub companies.

>>73522407
See >>73520495. You can make it a fanfiction as long as you get the author's permission.

>>73519641
>return to mobke is just a bad translation. Its like those old jrpgs with "get to the center of a tootsie pop" jokes.
You mean a Ted Woosley translation ie random pop culture references everywhere. In this case, isn't the actual thing the "localizer" should br conveying witht he punchline is that the prey revolution has been tamed and things are back to the natural order of things again? So something along the lines of "Hamstermind defeated!" would convey the exact same idea with a silly pun.

>>73522270
Dude, your argument falls apart when the target audience for this stuff is going to be familiar with alot of the lingo. Like seriously how retarded are YOU?

>>73522407
It all depends upon the audience you're making it for. Hololive EN isn't a mega weeb audience.

The problem is I like Japanese humor and I like Japanese memes. Call me a faggot but I just want the stuff I find funny to be what it is.
>Then learn Japanese if you want Japanese humor.
I'm in the process, but the fact I have to learn a whole fucking language makes me question what the point of translation is. Should I have to learn every single fucking language on the planet?

>>73518810
I'm surprised it took this long considering the shift in how hologra was localized started more than a year ago. The timing only goes to show this is yet another bottom of the barrel niji deflection thread that successfully used the board's autism to get anons to bite the bait.
sage

>>73522503
Which is retarded, especially now that localizers are involved in the development of games and shit. Its why there is almost always a global release now, cause they don't have to spend time post-JP release to fuck up the script and shit and can just do it in house

>>73522270
a lot of people who consume media of other cultures want to also learn about other cultures. if you're just going to change everything to match your culture, there's no point in even bothering, the viewer/reader would never fully get it. If I'm reading something from Japan written by Japanese people that uses Japanese references, I'd want to see the Japanese references and if I really got into it, learn the contexts. If I read something from Japan written by a Japanese person but someone comes along and changes everything that'd be related to Japanese culture and references to be more understandable to my pea brained English mind, there's ultimately nothing gained by the work for doing that. You're choosing to read/watch media from other cultures and countries, so you should know there will be references or cultural concepts you won't get yet and if it bothers you, then you can learn about them yourself. It shouldn't be the translator's job to determine what you are and aren't allowed to hear or understand.

>>73522642
But they're still weeb enough to know more than people who have never been exposed to it. Plus Hologra getting translations was always about people who enjoyed watching JP but wanted subs, its just that now there are EN members in it sometimes.

I always liked Ayame saying
>'Tis I!
I can hear that she is saying yo dayo, I don't need an untranslated subtitle.

>>73522777
>But they're still weeb enough to know more than people who have never been exposed to it.
That doesn't matter. If they were that weeb and really like the JP talents then they'd be learning Japanese. Are you learning Japanese or know Japanese? Then you aren't as weeb as you thought you were.

>>73522598
That part of the audience doesn't need the English subtitles to understand that lingo, then.

>>73522779
Its still cringe, its not what she's saying and its not an accurate translation. Its her main verbal meme quirk, and turning that stuff into le medieval English is always cringe

>>73522877
But to insinuate that they don't know any lingo is retarded. Here we go again with the "le just learn JP and stop complaining about improper translations"

>>73517608
Localization shifts happen every 20 or so years because of the ever-evolving lexicon of a language.
The shift is also somewhat necessary because the younger generation does not/refuses to remember specific idioms and references taught at schools or they aren't used in their every day life. Some may even belittle some phrases/expressions as "old fashioned", or as some youths refer it as "boomer".
It is very unfortunate, but take for example Elden Ring:
>game's story/mechanics/descriptions written in Japanese
>translated in English
>for the Japanese "old speak" and "exalted" way of speaking for certain characters (such as Rennala), translators do a phenomenal job and provide speaking patterns of older times (Ye will be countless born, forever and ever.)
>another example is with abilities - they provide very accurate translations to them, such as "Burn O Flame!" (火よ、焼き尽くせ!) and don't provide any cringy or inaccurate alternatives due to incompetence such as "Flame Burn Thee!" or "Oh My Fire Is Burning!"

However, we cannot really encounter a perfect world where every translator is as good as the Elden Ring team, so we will sadly be met with morons that have become translators only due to the fact that they are not good at anything else, other than memorizing something by heart and then trying to flaunt their ego at every possible moment ever.
>this phrase... I know how to translate it...
>it's like this!
>do you know why it's like this? It's because...
>no, there is no alternative, I know how to do my job.
Is this massive shift happening as we speak?
Yes.
Is it retarded and completely brain dead?
Yes.
Will there be more disaster such as the "localization" attempt of Miss Kobayashi?
Yes.
Does the population hate this?
Yes.
Can we do anything about it?
Not really. Complaints can only delay the shift. In the end, people get old and stop caring about the smaller stuff. It all rides on the fresh generation and if they are some stuck-up cunt who has somehow proven authority and has a big budget, they can easily initiate the shift.

>>73522892
What? Understanding lingo is not the same as being fluent in a language you buffoon

>>73517608
For some reason I thought this was someone translating actual speech by the girls themselves, like live translating or something. It's just Hologra though, which being scripted, is whatever to me.

>>73517608
The real problem wtih localizers is they think they are funny writers when they simply aren't even doing that properly.

>>73523003
>Can we do anything about it?
AI will solve the problem. You can pick if you want literal translations with footnotes that lose the tone or loose translations that capture the feeling without meaning and update the memes to your cultural moment.

>>73522966
>But to insinuate that they don't know any lingo is retarded
I actually read the chats/twitter when I watch HoloEN and I see people daily get confused over the super simple japanese terms that HoloEN likes to use. People here dont want to admit it but keeping japanese lingo to the minimum was a good idea from Omega.
>but what about my japaneseness
you can keep the values but skip the japanese words

>>73523148
Its worse than that, they think they are smarter/better writers than the original author/writer and that whatever slop they come up with is better

I think you should be able to translate from the English subs to what's being said in Japanese. Or at least be able to reconstruct the Japanese from the English. That's practically what I do as a watcher already.

>>73517608
Nigga there's nothing in these screenshots worth a damn, even drama vultures won't be interested

>>73523165
Its still a mainly JP thing tho, keeping any of that toned down or whatever just completely kills that aspect. Should all of their names be more westernized then? Why are EN members named Takanashi, Nanashi, etc if its meant for an audience that is apparently not as "knowledgeable" about JP lingo then???

>>73523165
>I actually read the chats/twitter when I watch HoloEN and I see people daily get confused over the super simple japanese terms that HoloEN likes to use. People here dont want to admit it but keeping japanese lingo to the minimum was a good idea from Omega.
well this is because it's dumb for english streamers to try and be the same as the japanese. Kobo blew up in ID because she was one of the first members in a while to actually primarily speak to the Indonesian audience rather than be JP or EN-lite. Same should be true with EN, where the most popular members in EN speaking countries should be the ones who are aware of who their audience is supposed to be.

>>73523398
I think openly admitting that you do your job wrong is bad actually

>>73517844
Yeah I agree with this.
It doesn't work. The "good day to you it's minato aqua" or whatever they did sounds unnatural

>>73523165
>>73523476
Tempus is the same way. The most popular member is the dude who is the most American acting one rather than the most otaku one

>>73519810
no bitch, that's a whole new sentence, tf are you talking about

>>73522966
All I'm saying is that they are translating and localizing it for the proper wider audience. At this point if it really bothers you actually be a weeb instead of a fake one and learn Japanese. So many Holo and Niji members have done so of their own accord because they're a significantly bigger weeb than you'll ever be.

>>73523647
wtf are you talking about

>>73523654
Muh "wider audience" is not the target audience for any of this and is why localization is so shit

>>73517608
Three grades of evil can be discerned in the queer world of verbal transmigration. The first, and lesser one, comprises obvious errors due to ignorance or misguided knowledge. This is mere human frailty and thus excusable. The next step to Hell is taken by the translator who intentionally skips words or passages that he does not bother to understand or that might seem obscure or obscene to vaguely imagined readers; he accepts the blank look that his dictionary gives him without any qualms; or subjects scholarship to primness: he is as ready to know less than the author as he is to think he knows better.
>The third, and worst, degree of turpitude is reached when a masterpiece is planished and patted into such a shape, vilely beautified in such a fashion as to conform to the notions and prejudices of a given public. This is a crime, to be punished by the stocks as plagiarists were in the shoebuckle days.

That's what localizes are for
CRY MORE WEEB
YOU WILL NEVER BE JAPANESE

>>73524207
>Localizers are for ruining foreign dialogue in order to appeal to a "wider western market"
Yes, that's exactly what they are

>>73523398
>even drama vultures won't be interested
>Rev's content was made of farming shit like this.

Everything he mentions is valid and sound.

Specially the latter part about Translator Notes. If you have to leave notes on top of what you're already writing it simply shows you have no idea how to translate things.

>>73524358
If he gets T-chan fired I will kneel to dramafags

>>73524339
>ruining
Fixing*
YWNBJ

>>73524452
This
Based
Weebs gonna cry about it tho

>>73517608
who uhh
cares tho
just learn the language

Holy black company

>>73524515
why watch japanese media then? YWNBJ. go watch western stuff.

>>73524024
You're not speaking Japanese so yes, you're the wider audience.

>>73524452
Nobody said shit about translator notes, if you're an actual good translator then you can acturately translate without needing to have notes on screen or whatever. Keep bootlicking the faggot tho I guess

>>73524515
Fixing how? By making them less Japanese and more western? Why even consume foreign media then if its just going to get "localized" into a completely different thing. Go watch fucking Marvel or some shit then bro, this aint the hobby for you if you actually think that what they are doing is "fixing" or god forbid "improving shit

>>73523031
Why would they need to be fluent? I just said that they won't get misled by the English translation of lingo they know.
Stop insulting people because you can't understand what they're saying.

>>73524715
lmao real mic drop moment

>>73524715
Uh no, wider audience implies people who don't watch Hololive regularly in this case. Like what a retarded gotcha you're trying to do "haha you don't speak JP so you're that target audience."

imagine if you spent all the time you waste being butthurt over localization you instead spent learning the language

>>73524995
Are you retarded or something, you implied that people who understand the lingo don't need subtitles which is not even a argument here

>>73525202
So caring about how the media I consume is presented in another language is a waste of time? Got it, shut up consoom product don't question the supreme localizers

Hologra isn't Family Guy random where you have to be at least somewhat aware of certain pop culture references to force out a chuckle, so it's not like TL notes would be needed in those sorts of instances. God forbid, if you encounter something you don't get, you might, I don't know, look it up for yourself later; imagine watching Joshiraku and complaining about Ebizou jokes because they didn't change his name to Hairy Seinfeld or something like that for you to understand why bringing him up in a certain context is humorous.

>>73522905
If you know what it is, you're not the target audience for the subtitle. It's a fine opinion to have, but the English subtitles for a line ultimately cater to those who wouldn't understand that line without them.

>>73517608
Do you actually care about seeing Japanese references in hologra when you hate Japan and Japanese?

>>73525371
Who exactly is this target audience you people keep spouting on about? And the whole issue is accurate translations, if what is being said is not the same as what is subbed then that's a problem. Pekora saying kon peko should not be "heya rabbits", because its not what it means since it doesn't even mean anything and is just verbal lingo

>>73525220
No, I said they don't need subtitles for lingo they don't understand. Obviously they need the subtitles for everything they don't understand.
There's a thinking person on the other side of the screen, give them some credit and double check what they said if it seems to make no sense.

>>73525548
Caring about accurate translations means I hate Japan and the Japanese?

>>73517608
seem but anal as most fans would profit more from translator notes and correct translations than from localizing shit with ransom bullshit

>>73524358

>>73524853
Where did you get this opinion? Nabokov, who I quoted earlier, disagrees:
>I want translations with copious footnotes, footnotes reaching up like skyscrapers to the top of this or that page so as to leave only the gleam of one textual line between commentary and eternity. I want such footnotes and the absolutely literal sense, with no emasculation and no padding

>>73517895
then it should not be T-chan but L-chan

>>73524853
OP's image, far right paragraph
And learn to read next time

>>73525601
Considering how you shit on anyone that knows any amount of Japanese and watches Japanese vtubers, yes.

does this affect the other language or english only

>>73525555
Then why even translate lingo if its not needed and if there isin't a direct translation for it? Also geez redditor much you fuckin stink with that last sentence

>>73517608
Elira stream incoming deflection thread.

>>73525550
The target audience for the English subtitles is EOPs who don't get the Japanese phrases without getting their meaning explained.
Your assertion that literal meaning is all- important isn't universally accepted. Imagine translating "shit" and "fuck" into other languages literally in all contexts, it would be a mess.

>>73525683
>Obvious bait is obvious

>>73525742
I am begging you to fuck off to your flipcord homosis

>>73518322
Yes, the JP equivalent of zoomer speak, remember, it varies between languages

>>73525742
Where the fuck are you pulling this from, out of your ass? Projection much?

>>73522905
wtf is the accurate translation supposed to be if "medieval english" is cringe, what do you think the connotation of 余 as a first person pronoun in media is you retard
the issue you should take with the translation is the TLers weren't able to come up with a way to maintain the parallelism inherent in the original line
what do you imagine "accurate" translations are???

>>73525769
It's needed for people who don't know it.
At least check my quads if you're going to be calling me a redditor.

>>73525730
The guy isn't even responding to anyone in that picture tho, its just his own personal reference regarding TL notes. Maybe you need some glasses or something I guess

>>73525842
I accept your concession, ENchad.

>>73525890
This is the "EN board" so I will treat every poster as if they only watch EN and post YWNBJ at anyone that doesn't.

>>73525603
Not really. Realistically speaking only japanese learners would benefit from having notes. Most fans won't actually ever engage with direct japanese pop culture and you'd be tanking the quality of your final product for the want of useless trivia.

>>73525890
there are a handful of retarded women from the stars thread who think the real samurai spirit is coed collabs and flirting with ecelebs

>>73525831
>It would be a mess
Ah yes, because loan words don't exist apparently. Fucking retard

>>73525866
Then how would you translate something like paisen, you can't unless you come up with a completely unrelated word or just use that original word. That's the problem here with localization because its too liberal with what they choose

>>73525922
Accurate translation meaning don't turn a verbal tic into Shakespearean dialogue because that's what they always end up doing you fucking retard

>>73517608
I don't have a problem with localizing idioms or references that would fly over the heads of 99% of the audience. It only becomes a problem if they start inserting their own politics into it, or try to exert their influence with the Japanese side into changing the source material directly, like most video game and anime localization does these days.

>>73526042
What part of my post implies that I want coed collabs and flirting with ecelebs?
I bet you've made several posts about JP being garbage and EN being the best shit ever since Japfaggot took over.

>>73526241
>don't turn the old-fashioned pronoun into old-fashioned english, it's not accurate!!
ogey

>>73526460
Ah yes the classic Japanese verbal tic of yo dayo, definitely correlates to ye old English because localizers are too predicable to do anything with the dialogue. Also lmao yeah lets get a JAPANESE ONI to speak in old-fashioned English, brilliant!

>>73526288
That's just the reality of releasing global products and wanting to streamline the process. More frequently are companies covering all bases at the start so they don't have to put work into multiple versions.

>>73526663
you are the type of retard that thinks "I am a cat" is an accurate and desirable translation of 吾輩は猫である lmao

>>73525953
Yes, and I echoed that sentiment.

My bad, I thought you were blind turns out you're just retarded. Avoid mentally challenging topics, you're just going to be confused, misunderstand, make yourself look like a moron. You're probably used to the latter, however.

>>73526663
How would you translate it? By leaving Japanese words in an English script or by erasing the tic entirely?

>>73526799
So just gonna assume shit about me and have 0 rebuttal about what I said then? Got it, localization defenders literally have 0 arguments because you know the slop you consoom by these people is shit

The moral of this story is that Japanese people are not great at English and English people are not good at Japanese.
The reason for this is localizers because god damn our translations are shit for it.

>>73526898
>Yes and I echoed that statement by misrepresenting the picture
Reddit is that-a-way faggot

>>73526038
majority of their audience also watches anime also/or reads manga ect.
most of those who watch holostuff also want to learn about talents and their culture so it is counter productive to not translate it properly with notes when needed

what did/do (you) use for learning japanese grammar and getting it engrained in your head

>>73526431
I don't know sister, what causes people to make fun of JP and JP audiences? What could have possibly lead you to think EN audiences "hate Japan and the Japanese"? Which Japanese hololive members face controversy, and for what?

>>73526970
There's nothing to translate it to because it literally means nothing. And like what has already been said in this thread, fan subbers translate stuff like that literally without "localizing it" and it works fine because people understand that its just that a cute verbal tic. Translating it as "I say" or whatever other shit, doesn't make any sense because it originally isn't suppose to be something that makes sense or has meaning.

>>73527154
I watched streams. Unironically. But pic related helps too.

>>73523654
I'm not really in support of this stylistic choice of localization, but I found that the more I learned Japanese, the less I cared about this shit, on a personal basis anyway. However, I do think that for some people who do know a little bit of Japanese, but not enough to contextualize why a translator chooses to use a specific line, it can be very frustrating to read these types of localizations.
For example, I've seen english subtitles in anime that completely omit a character's surname in favor of their first name while also disregarding any mentions of honorific-type dialogue. The latter isn't too terrible most of the time, but the former can be very off-putting. Beyond completely removing any sense of relationship dynamic between the speakers, I think this type of stuff is the most obvious area for EOPs to identify because you'll hear 'Takanashi', but you'll only see Kiara in the subtitles. It's quite immersion breaking. Additional stuff like:
>ie. senpai-kouhai hierarchy
>discomfort from a speaker using a person's first name because they're not familiar with each other
>pet names, nicknames, name variations, or honorifics like -paisen, -tan, hakos -> hakotaro, tsuna -> chuna, etc.
>はじめまして being translated into some retarded shit like "By thy name calls, a moon beckons on our fateful communion", even though it's just a simple greeting you say to someone you've met for the first time
>いただきます being translated into "Our dark lord graces this meal", etc.
You could argue that those equivalents don't exist in English and it might not be appropriate to leave as-is for a casual watcher, but it is problematic because you're inserting bullshit that really just doesn't exist there. In general, aggrandized stuff like that is sketchy even if the plot of some skits in hologra or any anime for that matter can get ridiculous and the context could potentially justify such a ridiculous line.

Really though, just do your reps bros. You will not take longer than AI to build fluency unless you're just lazy or have 0 free time, and ~N3 gets you to a point where you can read most pornographic doujinshi and read slice of life mango. You can even watch chuubas doing a zatsu and be okay depending if you can keep up with the speed of the speaker and if you're familiar with the words being said. Japanese-subtitled chuuba clips also open up for you(and they're much better in quality, editing, and content length), and those aren't hard to consume at that level either. It's really not that bad.

>>73526979
are you able to explain why "I am a cat" is poor translation of the title 我輩は猫である and misses the obvious theme of soseki's work that can be analyzed from the original intentional Japanese choice of words
you can't, which is why your opinion on everything else is meaningless

quite a pain when some interesting threads show up but theres no real meaningful conversation, just someone trying to be disenginous for yous
Ive noticed hologras shitty subtitles every now and then but ignored it because i thought it was typical for the general "english" holo fans

I just want to say to any clip translators in this thread that if you're one of those stupid faggots that subtitle あてぃし as ateshi instead of atishi, I fucking hate you.

>>73521201
and you lost the uniqueness great job

>>73518327
god this reminds me of NISA localizations, i have n99 for jap skills but even i know how bad it can get
made me wish they never touched Ys and nep games and those are fan translated instead

since when people put so much thought in translating back then it just either good quality translation or bad quality translation
now they even adding political bullshit drama in translating

>>73527351
Funny thing is the Persona 3 Reload retranslation fixed a lot of the naming issues the game originally had and properly captured the student relationship dynamics. Something which the game was pretty much universally praised for, nobody was against it, proving that the localizer defense force don't actually give a shit if the fans get the more accurate translations they ask for either, they just want to protect the status quo no matter what that entails.

>>73527214
>What could have possibly lead you to think EN audiences "hate Japan and the Japanese"?
Their behavior on this board.

>>73527854
Those are the official versions man
Check the Hololive website. Yes, it's retarded.

>>73527566
Still ignoring my argument again, still nothing to what I said because you got got nigger

>>73527331
>it literally means nothing.
It literally means "It's me" so it can totally be translated.

>>73528445
if you couldn't answer something as easy as my last question within a single sentence it's because you're a n6 and your opinion doesn't matter

>>73528292
>My god its actually on the official bios of members
Fucking kill me man

>>73528540
this contradicts what you, or someone trying to agree with you, said here
>>73526799

>>73528540
But nobody talks like that, that's why its a verbal tic and is not a 1-1 translation that you can just smack a le quirky ye old English on and go with that. Its mumbo jumbo

>>73528646
If you could stop defending shit translation, maybe we'd get somewhere you fucking EOP

>>73528646
So what is it bro? Literal translation suddenly ok now?>>73528540

>>73521920
People will look into it if they're interested, there's no reason to treat the audience like retards.
This way everyone knows what -kun, -san etc. means, because tranny localizers didn't infest the fan-translation scene then

>>73528711
How does a post that literally agrees with me contradict me?

>>73528789
Nobody says "yo dayo" either.

>>73528969
"it's me!" is not a good translation of Ayame's verbal tic, even though it's literally correct. As you note, nobody says that. There's no direct translation into English.

>>73528969
>nobody says yo dayo either
Uh literally what I just said, and yes no shit nobody says Tis I either as well. But it is not a 1-1 translation of what is being said nor does it convey the same feeling. Just fucking keep it as what she and other members who have verbal tics say, not everything needs to have a translation

>>73529173
>though
*if

>>73528922
i'm not >>73528540, but they're saying that 余 has an actual "literal" meaning. of course it would be terrible to translate it literally as it misses every single connotation, including that "yo" is an old-fashioned pronoun

>>73529173
>"it's me!" is not a good translation of Ayame's verbal tic, even though it's literally correct.
But that's what you would get if you were to only translate.
>There's no direct translation into English.
Which is why interpretative localization ends up taking place and you get whatever T-fag shits out for hologra.

>>73529173
Mario

>>73529324
So how would Pekora's verbal tic be translated then, there's literally no way besides just keeping it as peko. Or the age old nyah for catgirls, which generally gets localized into having the character do catspeak which, again, isn't really necessary nor proper in that regard

>>73529666
the fact you can't conceptually tell the difference between 余 and ぺこ is why you're an n6

>>73528153
Because they aren't arguing against accurate translations. The argument typically revolves around what 'accurate translation' means to people.

>>73529412
Is it really? I'm in no position to argue since I don't speak Japanese. I don't speak Russian either, though, and I can still prefer Pevear & Volokhonsky to Garnett...
Regardless, I understand why they have substituted a nonsense phrase for a nonsense phrase, the point is that they have not added any context or understanding by doing so. In fact, by choosing to add a different set of connotations, the translator has made understanding more difficult.
Leaving "yo dayo" untranslated as a unique phrase is the better choice in this situation, just like it would be wrong to a noun like "kotatsu" to "coffee table" or something.

>>73517608
Fuck off
t. Okabe

>>73529762
So just gonna continue to ignore my arguments again as you larp as a wannabe translator lmao

>>73529481
that's a great example actually, they don't translate his catchphrase in different regions

>>73530105
ayame always uses yo as it's her first person pronoun due to her character setting of being an oni and traditional japan. that's the point of having a consistent TL of making her speech slightly older to replicate the context of yo. there's not any particular issue with yo.
the "dayo" part has no magical special japanese meaning that can't be translated, it's like extremely simple.
it's that the entire phrase yo dayo has yo repeated twice which makes it a catchphrase and catchy. that's the interesting part the TL fails to capture, because you need some form of repetition in english. that's the main issue with the TL of why it sucks at trying to be an equivalent catchphrase.

>>73530105
>Is it really?
Yes it is. Your pic is just one possible meaning. The meaning for "yo dayo" is obviously "it's me" and not "me, you know".
>Leaving "yo dayo" untranslated as a unique phrase is the better choice in this situation
Does that mean you would also leave every other instance of "yo" as is?
>it would be wrong to a noun like "kotatsu" to "coffee table"
That's different because kotatsu is a specific type of item and doing that would be like calling sushi fish fingers.

>>73519894
It helps the two big vtubing agencies hire bilingual, or even trilingual talents who sometimes self translate...enough exposure your average vtuber fan will have more japanese knowledge then most.

>>73530811
>that's the point of having a consistent TL of making her speech slightly older to replicate the context of yo.
That kind of translation is kind of misleading because she speaks like any other 20 year old woman despite the pronoun. Changing up your pronoun is the most normal thing to do too and the only quirky thing about it is the specific choice of pronoun.
NTA btw