/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

muzukashii desu yo

Because it takes effort. I've never put effort into anything in my life. At this point I don't even know how to. Much easier to just do nothing.

Cool propaganda Japan but I ain't moving there. Have a sex and rise your own kids.

>>72882799
It takes years and I don't want to put that amount of effort into something that I'd only use to read untranslated h-doujins.

I'm trying, what vtubers are the easiest to understand for a beginner? Preferably someone that talks somewhat slowly, or slower than normal.
>>72882856
You can do it anon.

I'm waiting for AI to make language differences irrelevant

>>72882799
Yeah I don't get anons who don't.
You can even do it just as a hobby and watching JPs will help retain what you learned far easier than watching anime.

I don’t have time and AI will bridge the language gap sooner or later

>>72883050
People were saying that 5 years ago and it still hasn't happend, if you had started learning back then you would be fluent by now. And AI will never give you the feeling of achieving something by learning a language.

>>72883022
Indies.
And small ones.

Trying to actually provoke a discussion with them will do you very very good in the long run

>>72883022
Okayu

i'm waiting for the neuralink to be able to plug a language into my brain in exchange for being forced to watch subway surfer ads

>>72883093
I have more hobbies than free time, so I'd have to give up something else.
And I realize that learning languages is very useful, but to truly get good at a language you need to speak it, not just hear/read/write it. I don't know any jp speakers and looking for people is scary for an autistic loner.

>>72883263
That's why I'm talking about indies. It'd be combining two hobbies into one
Yeah you won't speak right away but at first you'll train your japanese comprehension

If you combine that with apps like Anki, Renshuu, Duolingo + a way to actually study the grammar (can't avoid that sadly) and search for a way to practice spoken japanese with japanese people (I used twitter, in the Spaces) you'll get a conversational level (understand enough to chat with people at local bars in Tokyo, and enough to actually get along with them) in around 7/8 months.

You can forget about reading and writing for the moment

>>72882799
What makes it easier now?

>>72882799
Because I'm retarded.

>>72882856
this, i only put effort in if it's a video game

>>72882799
It's a country doomed to extinction, and I'm not a historian.

>>72882799
I'm 32 so my brain won't learn second languages properly at this point.
Would probably give it a shot if this was seven years ago. Alas.

私は馬鹿だから。

>>72883919
People can learn a language at any age, the idea that your brain stops being capable of learning a new language after a certain point is a myth. If you want to learn Japanese, do it anon.

>>72882799
It might be easy but it's still very time consuming and I have a job

>>72882955
"Buttoo prease. China isa cuming to a geto usu"

>>72882856
Based
>>72882799
I already understand 99% of what they speak, why should I learn moon rune?

>>72883022
Marine

>>72883564
More resources,more apps that can help you get the hang of vocab + grammar,social media makes it easy to talk to jp speakers etc

>>72882799
Because it is waste of time to do what? Understand some hoe from Japan without a translator? There are better and more important languages you could study instead.

>>72884243
Now anon thats just mean

>OP doesn't know a lick of Nihongo aside from some Hiragana and Katakana
Not even Nips can master their own language (kanji), why waste time for a dying language

>>72885015
>Not even Nips can master their own language (kanji)
I don't understand why people say this, is this a meme or something, or do you actually think Japanese people can't read? You know you can just watch streams where JP chuubas play visual novels and they can clearly read every word right?

>>72883190
Who the fuck was saying that five years ago-
That was 2019, it was me, I was the one saying that.
Someone stop time please, I want to get off.

>>72882799
Learning spanish first to know a useful second language in Muttmerica.

>>72882799
I don’t have enough time in the day to watch all the EN chuubas I wanna watch, I don’t want to add JP chuubas to that list

>>72882799
you ain't becoming fluent at japanese by spamming duolingo anon

>Never been easier to learn Japanese
>Effortless portable translation and automatically generated translated subs are also
imminent

I could just do something I actually like instead

>>72882799
Because it's not worth the effort. Learning Japanese (unless your native language is Chinese or another language with a lot of similarities) takes a ton of effort for almost no payoff. There are hundreds if not thousands of English-language vtubers I could watch instead, and I almost never find an anime or manga I want to watch/read that isn't translated. The only possible reason I can think of to learn Japanese would be to get a job in Japan, but that also doesn't make sense because you get paid less in Japan than you do in the US.

>>72882799
Learning a language would be fine but learning a language + a completely alien alphabet? A pain in the ass.

>>72882799
>why aren't you learning it?
I will never be Japanese. I understand 30-90% of JP streams simply because I used to watch a lot of anime, and that's enough for me to enjoy them. Out of curiosity, I occasionally look up phrases/words or watch random shorts about JP language rules, but that's about it. Because I only watch anime and vtubers, there's no point in learning how to speak or read/write kanji.

>>72885549
Because I live in Japan

>>72887154
Also their language is being contaminated by English loanwords, in 10 years it will be an unrecognizable mess that will invalidate whatever you will learn in textbook.

>>72882799
It's a useless language

>>72887154
You should try hanging out with people who don't have down syndrome.

>>72883050
The problem with machine translation is that languages are constantly changing. Even if you get an AI that can perfectly translate all standard languages on Earth, there's too many accents and slang words within each language for any AI to be able to catch.

>>72882856
The trick is to give yourself very easy objectives day by day.
Start by, say, learning one new word a day, and you will eventually ramp up naturally.

Honestly it's a pain in the ass. I started doing anki reps a few months ago and I learned a bit of entry level grammar but it isn't really enough to fully understand the type of natural slang filled japanese I get from vtuber streams, youtube comments, twitter, etc. and I don't have the time or the patience to grind through children's manga/vidya with a dictionary until I work my way up to less shitty immersion material

>>72882799
>it's never been easier
There are now more guides and resources, but unfortunately I am now an adult with a full time job. I jsut watch vtubers and post here because I can't be fucked to do much else.

>>72883609
Braindead gamers are the worst.

>>72882799
you are only able to learn if you want to learn
and i don't want to learn

>>72882799
I really miss Fubuki's old face. She can't make faces like this with her new model.

>>72882799
>japanese
Shitty language. We only need 26 letters of latin alphabet for communication and those fuckers decided to scribble like a kid on paper

>>72885015
>>72887368
This isn't anything unique to Japan. The average person is functionally illiterate. If you have a job that involves interacting with the public you'll quickly realize this. Half of the population reads at below a 6th-grade level, i.e., they have the reading skill of an elementary schooler and are unable to parse more than simple sentences with a child's vocabulary, and even then only with effort. People are really, really fucking stupid, it's basically impossible to underestimate them, and it's getting worse every year.

It's really, really boring and if I could motivate myself to do boring things for a long term payoff I wouldn't be posting here.

I already know hiragana/katakana. I'm practicing my kanji in Anki to just start doing 20-30 cards every day/other day.
I've had Tae Kim's book on my to do list for weeks, but what else can I do to learn Japanese more efficiently? I'd like to be able to spend more time in Japan.

>>72883190
>will never give you the feeling of achieving something by learning a language.
neither did learning English and German in school more than a decade ago. there's an abundance of chuubas now so I don't have to bother with learning a language I'll never use.

>>72882799
I know kana and some random words(sound only), surely it's enough

>>72886441
>+ a completely alien alphabet? A pain in the ass.
can confirm, I tried to learn Russian... tried being the operative word. this was way before the war
>>72887154
F
>>72890164 (me)
*more than two decades ago
fuck I'm a boomer aren't I?

>>72889113
Right I would agree, but that other anon was implying that Japs somehow can't read kanji, which anyone would know is clearly not true if they've ever watched a single stream before.

>>72882799
listening to streams is a pretty good way to learn, as long as you have a base level already

AI will never be as good as actually learning the language. The best possible version of an AI translator is a program that would be able to hear what you said, translate it, and then play the translation with your voice. That is to say, be as good as a human translator (without the voice part). We are at least 10 years away from this.
Anything more advanced than that would require some kind of chip or some shit that already knows what you want to say and then translates it instantaneously. No clue if this is even possible and if it is we are at least 50 years away from it.
Stop coping and start learning.

>>72891335
The average adult won't be able to learn the language even to that level without actually moving to Japan and taking learning the language VERY seriously.
The vast majority of JSLs are not competent translators, which is why it takes the people who work for Crunchyroll 8-10 hours to translate a 22-minute episode.
If you really want to organize your entire life around learning Japanese, go for it, but keep in mind there are almost limitless other things you can accomplish with a similar level of effort.

>>72882955
I work in IT and I'd gladly move there if the government offered willing Japanese women who wanted my tall white ass.

>>72882799
I'M FUCKING TRYING
黙れ, 国人!!!

>>72891850
Didn't ask

>>72888620
>scribble
you won't believe how they see the latin alphabet

>>72882799
Because I'm lazy as fuck and stupid, lil nigga

>>72883022
>>72883190
>>72887554
>>72890164
>>72891335
The real problem with AI is that nobody has a good solution to automate conceptual understanding or even representations. The best techniques used today are statistics based and model a distribution of language usage to generate predictions of co-occurrence. At best this is a good approximation of context awareness, but it won't just continue to get better. It needs more fundamentals that don't exist yet. You can't just crank up 100 years old tech and theory to maximum and hope it will magically roll out. Companies might start to try and craft large bespoke programs that alter the AI output to be better just like they do with censorship of their output, since none of the companies are interested in actual theoretical research. Suggesting it's X amount of years away makes no sense when almost nobody is working on the problem, and they're just hyping scaled-up applications of old stuff.

Learning a language also changes your brain, more when you're younger, but even when you're an adult you will benefit from learning a language.

>>72892088
I am going to rape you

>>72891711
>The vast majority of JSLs are not competent translators, which is why it takes the people who work for Crunchyroll 8-10 hours to translate a 22-minute episode.
Learning a language to fluency and being able to translate between languages are two completely seperate things. Being a translator is a skill you have to learn and is much harder than simply intuitively understanding the language, especially with languages as fundamentally different as English and Japanese.
>If you really want to organize your entire life around learning Japanese, go for it
You don't have to rearrange your life to learn a new language, I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

>>72892624
Welcome to Japan! Here's your passport!

>>72882799
Why learn Japanese when all the HoloJP members can already speak English and are cuter when they do

>>72892607
Every time anyone has ever said "AI scaling stops now we are hitting the limits" they have been proven wrong. LLMs are already better at complex reasoning than the majority of humans.

>>72893347
kek there's like 5 girls in JP that can speak english, seeing okayu trying to speak english would be funny though

>>72893597
ask a chatbot what hour it is

>>72892607
I've no idea why you tagged me, I didn't even mention AI. but now that you did, lemme ask you a question: are you in your mid 30s yet, anon?

>>72893046
What percentage of JSLs do you think reach fluency, or even near-fluency, i.e. being able to pick up a random manga and understand most of it without looking anything up, participate in an informal conversation with multiple native speakers without getting confused, etc.?
I think it's probably in the single-digits percentages even for people who move to Japan for a year+, maybe 10-15% at best, and probably zero for people who don't.
It's quite easy to learn some basic Japanese, kana, basic kanji, common phrases, basic grammar, etc. You can do it in your spare time, but even then it takes significant effort to do it in a reasonable timeframe. I don't think fluency or even "business Japanese" is realistic unless you're willing to move to Japan and put in literally thousands of hours of work on it.

>>72882799
You underestimate my ability to kill my own braincells.

>>72893659
Every JP member can speak English. Being able to speak English and being fluent in English are two entirely separate things. Native English speakers are trained from a young age to understand broken English.

>>72892041
i think you wanted 黒人 instead of 国人
but even 黒人 isn't really offensive so try 黒んぼ next time instead.
頑張れアノンくん

>>72882799
Give me a Japanese gf I can devote my life around her and I will learn nihonggo in a heartbeat.

>>72893849
No, if you forced somebody like Mio to sit down and stream only in English she would not be able to, she simply does not have a large enough vocabulary to articulate herself. You're vastly overestimating the average JPs ability to speak English. Fucking Lui is one of the best speakers and she's borderline incomprehensible.

>>72889948
Tae Kim is a decent book to start, use it until you get a feel for basic sentences. Later a more technical one that can explain individual grammatical expression will help, but isn't necessary.
Single most effective way to improve is to use the language, listen to audio and read text. This help the most, it doesn't matter how complex the material is, whether you use a translator and dictionary or not, if you are comprehending the grammar of new sentences, you are improving. It's especially easy to find good material for Japanese.
Consistently practicing kanji helps.

>>72894008
>Japanese GF could teach you JP incless than a year
>Japanese girls only want tall handsome white guys who already speak Japanese
Catch 二十二。。。

>>72894287
>Japanese girls only want tall handsome white guys who already speak Japanese
Yeah they want tall handsome white guys but I've seen some of them express they lose interest in ones that can already speak, and the majority of them are just gaijin hunters that want a fling to experience BWC and nothing more

>>72894228
Any recommendations for reading material, especially stuff with furigana so I can practice vocab? I feel like my actual recognition of kanji has improved just by doing some more Anki practice and paying attention to raw doujinshi but I want to just drill vocab until I can think in Japanese more, then perfect my grammar and kanji.

>>72894525
>but I've seen some of them express they lose interest in ones that can already speak
Really? I actually have seen a lot of girls turn down meeting with foreigners because of the language barrier. Unless they're westaboos who only want to learn English and ride cock or something.

>>72894525
Might explain my lack of popularity with them since I have enough hand in the language to actually speak a full conversation, and despite being being from a country they adore beyond common sense, I am not white.

Is it truly over, anons ? Did I learned spoken nihongo for nothing ?
At least I can go into japanese indies zatsudans to talk about bs

>>72894889
>I am not white.
Why the heck not?

>>72893783
>What percentage of JSLs do you think reach fluency, or even near-fluency, i.e. being able to pick up a random manga and understand most of it without looking anything up, participate in an informal conversation with multiple native speakers without getting confused, etc.?
Probably less than 5%, I never said it was easy or that most people succeed. But you can say that about most skills, what percentage of people that buy a guitar and try to learn how to play actually achieve their goal? Probably not a very high percentage. And I can link you to people who have learned Japanese to fluency within 4-5 years and never lived in Japan, it's doable if you put in the time.

>>72894636
Factually true, I saw a lot of them just turning around or being too scared to even talk to you if you can't put two words together

>>72894925
Sadly i'm a half white french cuck, tanned enough to look like a westernized ESL which is very debilitating when it comes to the dating scene in Asia, with japanese people having no fucking idea on how to approach me until I actually speak to them

>>72894946
I was in Japan a few weeks ago and actually had girls call me kakkoii when I tried to chat with them (being white and 6'2 helps) but I'm a fucking babby when it comes to anything outside of a few short phrases, so it didn't go that far.

>>72894944
I personally know people who've moved to Japan for full-time Japanese language education and still can't read manga without furigana.
Anyway, I don't really disagree with the rest of what you said. Yes, it's possible to learn Japanese, it's just going to take immense effort. That's why I say you basically have to rearrange your life to do it.
You're not going to learn it doing an hour of Anki practice or reading manga after work at night, not in five years, not in ten years, not in twenty. If you're not going to devote a significant fraction of your time to it you're ngmi, so I don't see a reason to make that your goal if you aren't willing to refocus your entire life around learning Japanese.

>>72893597
It doesn't do any reasoning. The model is a distribution of human knowledge, it's an artifact, not something with intentionality. You can reasonably assume that much can be achieved with statistics, the co-occurrence of letters, words, n-grams, that's not implausible when you scale up and have so much training data. Not everything is that kind of problem. The thing you have not proven yet is that everything is that kind of problem, but there's no good reason to believe it is. That's the challenge of the "just scale it up" argument. What improvements you can get out of it will likely just come from better human curation and input of higher quality human produced data. Otherwise, you will have to hand craft most of the interpretation rules you want to apply to the output, since by translation we really mean interpretation, and it can't interpret without conceptual understanding.
>>72893766
Yes. No idea why I linked your post either, I must not have been paying attention.

>>72882799
>Learn moonrunes
I dont need to know your alien speak to know this is good content https://files.catbox.moe/x9toqx.mp4

>>72895548
I'm 6'0, and been called kakkoii by chika idols in Shibuya but it's not what I would call enough lmao
Because I don't look exactly like the dreamed and stereotyped french dude it's been slightly hard to land anything yet. (Still have 8 months left in Japan so I still have a bit of time)

But like I said, my japanese has been really good enough during zatsudans with chuubas, it's probably the perfect practice for me when I was still living in my country (right now I can just go to a random bar anyway lol)
It's just that it doesn't help THAT MUCH with getting closer to girls IRL unless you already knew them long before

>>72893597
Ofcourse the person who cant read also doesnt understand what modern AI is and how it works.

>>72895720
I don't think there's much else to talk about. We both agree it takes a lot of time and effort, but you seem to believe it requires much more time to learn, as well as big lifestyle changes in order to achieve any kind of proficiency. With 2-3 hours a day of study, I don't think it's unreasonable to achieve a high degree of fluency in Japanese within 4-5 years. I don't know the people you personally know, so I can't comment on that.
If you're curious, here's one guy who learned Japanese everyday for 5 years and he was able to become fluent enough to hold long, hour long conversations as well as easily being able to read manga. But there's plenty of other examples as well.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edA8bGXooTo

>>72894217
>incomprehensible
ESL, every native speaker can understand broken English. If Mio does an English only stream, I will watch it, even if she only knew 20 words, that's enough. You can articulate yourself, basically at the same level as a native speaker, even if you know only 20 words.

Filtered by kanji.
The first time I seen some 20 stroke character for a single syllable I kinda realized the language was a meme.

Easier than impossible isn't saying much.

>>72894565
Intermediate Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, book. It's needlessly technical for the purpose of just learning the language, but it's basically a list of expressions and grammar, with a ton (many thousands) of example sentences with translations, though you should avoid reading the translations before trying to comprehending the sentences on your own. I also recommend using the Jisho dictionary website or app, it has a function that lets you search for kanji by putting radicals together, getting used to it will save you a lot of time.

>>72897155
I'm a native speaker, I'm beginning to think you're not though if you think inane ESL babble is somehow easily understandable. Have you never spoken to an Indian?
>You can articulate yourself, basically at the same level as a native speaker, even if you know only 20 words.
Yeah you're retarded, never post again faggot.

I know 3 languages, I have no interest to learn 4th just to watch vtubers.

The only reason to learn Japanese is to shitpost with other foreigners in vtuber chats. It's good fun but in terms of time investment you should probably learn something else.

>>72897008
The people I know are actually fairly smart, they were the only people in their class to learn kana on schedule. I can't imagine how much harder it is for a midwit who probably doesn't even speak their own language well.
Anyway, assuming you work a full-time job, you have about 4 hours of free time a day. 2-3 hours of Japanese study a day means 50-75% of your free time devoted to learning Japanese, every day, for years. Almost no one is going to stick to that, you have to REALLY love learning Japanese.
I can't speak for the guy you linked, but I suspect he either didn't work full-time or had some sort of assistance. If you're a university student you can major in Japanese, if you're willing to take a crappy job you can move to Japan and make friends with JOPs.
Those are probably the most realistic ways for ordinary people to accelerate their Japanese learning, expecting to have the willpower to devote most of your time to Japanese learning for half a decade is unrealistic for most people.

It will still take me 10 more years because im English and male

>>72882799
Because I know that realistically I’ll never use it. Spanish and Chinese look way better on a resume.

>>72882799
What’s the point? If you’re wageslaving 40 hours every week.

>>72897456
>Filtered by kanji.
it's literally just shapes you learn to recognize automatically
you don't need to remember the position of each squiggle, your brain does that for you

>>72898238
>and Chinese
Somebody post the thing

>>72898045
You're taking it to seriously, but yeah, inane ESL babble is super easy to understands. Native English speakers get exposed to hundreds if not thousands of people growing up who could barely speak English. Japanese Broken English is one of the easiest varieties of broken English to understand.

>>72898045
I'm a native speaker and I can understand ESL better than some native English accents (Scottish, Cockney and other bizarre shit from England, bix noodery).

>>72898445
If you can't understand Scottish or real English accents, you're basically ESL

>>72897456
now that i'm deep into n3, posts like this make me feel like some kind of superhuman for some reason. The first month is easily the hardest but once you've got a few dozens in it just clicks like I cannot explain it, the moment you realize it's all radical and basically "all" (reality is most) kanjis use as the same base form of 150 simpler characters it just becomes the easiest shit ever.
Nowadays I even feel like learning kanji is the most compelling part of learning japanese because there is not better feeling than going into Google Earth, dropping in Akiba and instantely read any signs and be like "damn I could find my way around here".
I take as a motivation something one anon said is that if you can remember the name of the first 150 pokemons, you do the same for any kanji because it's basically the same as associating a word with a design, and because I know every single pokemon names from gen1 to 5 which is 650 approximately doing the same for kanji seems even easier.

what books did fuwamoco use? i think they mentioned it in one of their earliest streams

It's pointless the only viable income for foreigners in Japan is being Foreign.

>>72899544
Just do manual labour like real men should be doing and Japanese are scared to do

>>72882799
We didn't firebomb Tokyo then drop two nukes for me to learn how to say nip nop ching chong.

>>72899767
anime website
board in the japanese culture category

>>72899414

Btw, what do you suggest to learn kanjis to try the JLPT ? I already have some level of spoken japanese (enough to chat with people at local bars and make friends) but I barely know enough kanjis to be able to read one or two sentences messages on LINE, or short tweets, but aside from that I basically have zero technical knowledge of the language

I don't want to study yet since I'm in Japan until November, but after that I want to get the N3 or even N2 to try to land a job here

>>72900330
how the fuck did you learn japanese to a conversational level without learning how to read it

>>72900416
probably how chinese people living in the west can go their entire lives speaking chinese to their family and not know how to read the language

>>72900537
theres a difference between knowing a language because you were spoken to in that language since you were born and learning a language in adulthood without knowing how to read it
how the fuck do you study if you cant read the study material

>>72900603
I've never read a word of Spanish study material but I can speak it enough to deal with the Mexicans at work. I learned it mostly by people "pointing" or translating.

>>72900416
Spent a fuckton lot of time on indies chuubas's zatsudans, + Duolingo, my older brother's books (he has a native japanese level) + actually speaking with japanese people in Twitter Spaces

My level went from Watashi ha furansujin desu to "how many years have you been in Japan ?" In the span of a few months

My actual level is much lower than what my speaking skills make it out to be

>>72900932
>My level went from Watashi ha furansujin desu to "how many years have you been in Japan ?" In the span of a few months
I mean yeah that checks out for me too except I do Anki and Tae Kim and listen to any holoJP thats currently streaming in the background at all times
How's Duolingo? I heard it sucks for Nihongo
Also, the way I learned to read (and write) kana is I pulled up the stroke order on my PC, took a piece of paper, wrote あ all over it, flipped it over, wrote い all over it, grabbed another piece of paper and so on and so forth and when I was done I could read and write kana

>>72900330
My advice wouldnt be very useful to people already learning the language, especially because most of my kanji knowledge stems from Anki droning and dissecting jpop and vocaloid lyrics.
What I can say for sure is that mnemonics for entire kanjis is definitely not necessary but mnemonics for radicals can be very helpful, as the most difficult part in kanji in my opinion by far is not knowing a lot of them, but being able to differentiate those looking exactly the same.
緑 and 線 are good examples and also very common kanji in both words and single usage, that shit is barely readable with 4chan's typo but if you can remember that the second one 線(sen) contains 水(mizu) inside of it that can make you not mistake it for 緑(midori).
There are a lot more like 運 and 連, 場/湯/傷, 記/紀, 識/議, and a shit ton more.

>>72900537
Well probably exactly that actually, my ex gf was a chink and she struggled with written chinese while speaking a perfect one to her grandma

Being able to speak the language doesn't mean that you're good at reading or writing it, if you spend a long time surrounded by native you'll pick up the language at one point or another
(Well for that you have to actually meet people)

>>72901171
Duolingo sucks when you already have a certain level, but it's pretty useful when you want to start learning some sentences, words and the kanas. You have to combine it with something else tho, for me it was the chuubas

>>72901171
I started learning Japanese exactly 1 year ago yesterday, I've only used Duolingo this whole time and after like the first 2 months its just been a single 5 minute lesson per day. I have certainly been learning, but it was pretty obvious early on it wasn't great. It essentially explains almost nothing, so it's not much better than flashcards. I have yet to actually memorize hiragana or katakana, and that's partially me not trying very hard, but still. I have been learning. Just very slowly. I have found that the reminders and whatnot have kept me persistent with it, even if I'm only doing a single lesson per day, the fact that I have actually done it every single day is extremely surprising to me, so if nothing else I do think it's good for that.

>>72901227
What kind of book or app would be the best for radicals ?
I'll use anki but I don't want to drown on it like a retard, I want to study efficiently

>>72902168
personally I bruteforce it trough jisho but once again I wouldn't advice to do this for anybody.
Honestly no idea, /djt/ might be a better source of info for this, just don't take everything they say as the correct way to learn and that's enough.

I just read 5ch, usually with deepl, which means I'm not very good at it, but I know what ガワ and オフパコ and 尾張屋根 mean

>>72902062
For the love of god, just go memorize kana. It seriously takes a week at most. Lots of people do it in a day.

I'm trying but the grammar makes no sense. There was a question that went some thing like "Can I have you contact my father?" and it turns out that sentence starts as "父まで連絡..." Why the fuck is it まで instead of に there? There is no limit or destination in that sentence.

>>72902730

>>72902730
I'd say 父に連絡してくれませんか? Instead of using this weird まで
But like I said I barely have technical knowledge of the language so other people are more suited than me

>>72882799
Why would I need to learn another language besides American

>>72882799
i stopped at n3
truth is i don't enjoy anime as much anymore and the japanese bug mentality filters me

>>72882799
I need a good app or game to teach me. Does that exist yet?

>>72905471
eroge visual novels

>>72905660
This is the correct answer unironically

Imagine if mangagamer actually got voiceovers for this https://www.mangagamer.com/detail.php?goods_type=0&product_code=198

>>72905740
How so?

>>72897008
>2-3 hours daily for 4-5 years

What is learning a language?
Understanding of they say take like 2 years or less even if you aren't trying, understanding moon rune and speaking it is another story.

>>72883022
Kanade?

>>72892607
All the research on conceptual understanding was being done by ontologists working with "classical AI" in creating formal systems of "knowledge representation" using first-order logic. Then LLMs became the hot new thing in 2022 and nobody cares anymore. But AI will fall back to the same problem of "modelling context for machines" and people will realize this en-masse (they've already started), and we'll get another AI winter.

>>72901171
>Also, the way I learned to read (and write) kana is I pulled up the stroke order on my PC, took a piece of paper, wrote あ all over it, flipped it over, wrote い all over it, grabbed another piece of paper and so on and so forth and when I was done I could read and write kana
why would you learn to write kanas? literally, I can't think of any time I would need to write kanas irl, unless I'm in Japan, which I'm not, and I'm not planning moving there in the future.
Japanese IME is enough.

>>72882799
I just wait for the vod and use the auto-translator option. It's no very good, but I understand enough basic Japanese and can infer enough from context to get most of what's going on.
I do this a lot with AZKi especially

>>72911296
NTA but I memorize things easier when I write them down.

>>72899767
Okay, grandpa. Let's get you back to the home. You can have a nice glass of milk of magnesia and then we will get you to bed.

i watch en vtubers, i dont care about JP and i barely watch anime anymore since vtubers take up a lot of time which means i barely hear japanese anymore. i just dont care

>>72882799
why would I waste my time learning a "language" that only pedos use

>>72882799
I'm doin it

>>72920297
>120 million pedos
Based

>>72921141
kys

>>72882799
なんかめんどくさいんだよね

Their language is so gay that they need to routinely use two of their own alphabets and two foreign ones to write.

>retards complaining about how hard it is to learn Japanese
Pathetic. Just memorize the alphabets and sound combinations. After that everything came down to learning a fuckton of vocabulary and grammar in context. Literally took 6 months to be able to understand most of the contents on the internet. You guys tried to double down on learning a limited vocabulary and ankidroid never stopped amazing me because you guys are incapable of absorbing 20k+ vocabulary in japanese when it's literally just Englsh with more ways of speech.

>>72923308
It's like programming languages, retard. It's beautiful. Also it has 3 alphabets with seperated functions and uses, not 4 you fucking retard. Just because you are dumb doesn't mean others should become a retard like you.

>>72882799
where do I even start?

>>72892256
Please don't flick my friend

>>72923308
English is so retarded that both you for a single person is the same you for a group of people, you in the past? Same, you in the future? Same too.
People discuss all the time why do americans are so uneducated and retarded but just look at their upbringing language.
Bongs aren't that much above but at least they don't need to simplify everything in existence.
Proof of that is niggers, they're even below the average american and look at how they speak, they can't form a phrase without repeating the same word twice.

>>72882799
>>>/jp/

I will become japanese.

because i'm genuinely too stupid to

>>72882799
did they get rid of Kanji recently?

>>72934585
seethe

>>72899615
>like real men should be doing
Why aren't you doing it, then?

>>72882799
>easy
No thanks, I only do challenging things.

>>72883022
Ones that don’t add retarded keyfab slang to every sentence which makes their grammar harder to understand. Also look for ones that have a Tokyo dialect as other dialects are not standard and can be fucking stupid at times especially for learners

>wow a relatively obscure Japanese only '90s-early '00s RPG, I bet this will be an excellent use of what I just studied in Anki
>It has a translation patch
>Don't actually want to talk to Japanese people either

why am i here

>>72882799
I dont wanna

>>72882856
Average vtuber fan.exe

>>72945985
no arrow, therefore

>>72908612
It's not quite that bad. Like the old adage, when the field of AI solves a problem it's no longer an AI problem. Statistical models have been seen as highly useful and popular before 2022, before their application as LLMs, they already came back in a huge way around 2012, and the interest has already sobered up in the research community. It's impressive what can be accomplished without any intelligence; at least where the only intelligence is in human created works, and the interpretation of the output by humans. It just means there has been no real progress on tackling the difficult problems. Whether or not there is any profit to be had in solving those difficult problems is anyone's guess, so corporations might not be interested. On the one hand this could be bad, but on the other hand if they lose interest it might help reverse the brain drain, then researchers can return to academia.

>>72882799
>why aren't you learning it?
Who says Im not

>>72882799

>>72882799
知らん。毎日の"自分何故生きてるか生き続けるか理由探す"大問題より日本語結構、いや、大千難しんすよ。

>>72950500
cheer up faggot

i cant remember the funny shapes

>>72882799
I don't need or want to learn Japanese. There's no point of it anymore after those xenophobic retards started to vote on banning tourism. Fuck them and their shitty media. And learning Japanese isn't going to reward me with a feudal era bride so fuck learning moonrunes.They should learn to speak English. If they want my money and support. Otherwise goodbye whore there's another ken-sama willing to denounce their U.S. citizenship for you.

>>72927413
If English is so retarded, why aren't you typing in Japan or Indonesian on tagalog or whatever language your stupid ass originated from?

>>72884243
i honestly think thats a good idea. to escape brasil i enlisted in the foreign army, we HAD to speak french otherwise we would get at the very least screamed at, it was a trial by fire but me and my buddy (this dude was filipino) we learned that shit in 36 days

>>72951102
t. chink
We LIKE xenophobia on this website, plebbitor.

>>72951102
>xenophobic retards
Tell me you’re brown without telling me you’re brown

>>72951149
Lingua Franca is decided by military might, not linguistic ease.
Latin was a bitch as well.

>>72883022
Watarai Hibari

>>72883022
Hajime for DANTE MUST DIE difficulty

>>72891335
"Universal translator" would have to be able to accurately parse every piece of context, cultural norm and references to popular media. It also would need to be able to learn because culture and therefore language change.
"Universal translator AI" would be considered a human person.

>>72882799
>years of effort
>oshi could be gone tomorrow

>>72951222
>>72951252
You will never be Japanese.

>>72952196
I was almost Japanese, so 'never' isn't the right word.

>>72952196
This feels personal
Who rejected you?

>>72882799
I am though
watching the full vod of the roberu/bae/ollie apex collab was hilarious
I still dunno how I want ro grind grammar though so I just do daily bunpro reps and hope it sticks

>>72952273
Almost doesn't count. Even hafu kids being born in Japan aren't Japanese they're treated as second class citizens and are bullied and ostracized everyday.
>>72952664
??? You will never be japanese.

>>72882799
every time this gets asked, dozens of EOPs twist and turn themselves into pretzels in order to come up with the most retarded excuses imaginable

>>72894525
I'm a short average looking white guy that can speak Japanese and I got a Japanese gf, if I can do it anyone can

>>72952896
>short average white guy
Lmao

>>72883022
utatane nasa if you want SLOW

>>72951273
Strongest army surely has strongest language due to communication advantage

>>72952698
Imagine using your language skills to watch a homo collab

>>72882799
Because character-based languages are gay and retarded. This ain't ancient Egypt nigga, we don't need to fucking write heiroglyphics anymore. If your language doesn't have an alphabet, it is irrelevant and will die out within 75 years.

>>72952834
>Almost doesn't count.
But we're not talking about is or isn't; you said 'never'. I almost was. So 'never' is not right.

>>72953162
>Strongest army surely has strongest language due to communication advantage
'Do not, as some ungracious pastors do,
Show me the steep and thorny way to heaven,
Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine,
Himself the primrose path of dalliance treads,
And recks not his own rede'.

>>72953289
>languages that survived thousands of years will die because zoomers are too brain dead like me

>>72952834
Anime website, board in the Japanese Culture category on the main page
An hero yourself tourist

>>72953289
Japanese does have an alphabet you retard

>>72953703
Buddy, Japan has a birthrate of 1.3 and China has one UNDER 1. There literally will not be people around at the end of this century who care enough to speak the language, and even if there are, the total irrelevancy of these two countries on a global scale by virtue of complete unadulterated demographic catastrophe will make it pointless to speak a language on life support.

All of history up until about 180 years ago we were on the stick end of the hockey stick. Now we're on the tape end and you think comparing the totality of modern interconnected civilization - and all the concomitant increases in the pace of everything - to straw hut dwellers limping along from one feudal arrangement to the next for 4 millenia makes any sense at all?

Splatter your brains on the wall dumb shit faggot. And I'm 32, probably older than you.

>>72953777
No it doesn't.

>>72882799
German/Korean > Japanese

>>72954066
>No it doesn't.

>>72951194
French legion I assume ? Was it good ?
Thoughts about doing the same thing

>>72954096
>Korean

>>72953777
>>72954152
akshually, that's a syllabary

>>72882799
Well give me some resources.

>>72954096
Germany allied with Japan, not slave-country Korea (Korea was China's slave before being Japan's slave).

>>72954368
https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/learn-hiragana/ syllabary
https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/learn-katakana/ alphabet syllabary
https://github.com/donkuri/Kaishi vocab
https://bunpro.jp/ grammar
there you go
all you need to start

>>72882799
kanji unironically gave me depression

>>72954683
now you know how japanese high schoolers feel lol

>>72882799
I'm an EOP in his 40s and I barely know English.

>>72954066
Every modern, first world country has a shrinking native population you stupid faggot. Spain has a birth rate of 1.2, Germany's is 1.5. Hell even the US has a negative birth rate, it's 1.6. The only difference between these countries and East Asia is that the west imports foreigners to mask their demographic crisis, which is arguably just makes the situation worse.
And who the fuck even dictates if they're going to learn a language based on future demographic statistics, what the fuck? Do you have autism? Hang yourself.

>>72954066
>all history until about 180 years ago doesn't matter
The state of burgers, it must be hard to live in a country without culture, no wonder they don't even know how to educate their children and it causes school shootings everyday.

>>72954096
>Korean
Stop watching doramas, sister.

>>72952840
Some people get really defensive about it for some reason, just say you aren't interested

Kanji and vocab are easy.
Piecing together real japanese dialogue is retarded and nearly impossible. Run on sentences with multiple repeating particles,retarded clauses to describe nouns,passive form[xは俺にに~られる],past/present tense,firing out [who] is doing what to [whom] is a pain,figuring out where the 'breaks' are in sentences,etc
Read a manga/LN that loves describing how powers work and try not to go crazy deciphering this shit.
Fuck japanese grammar,at least the other trash can be bruteforced via rote memorization. I hate this language so much.

>>72954368
The most important thing https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/
Ignore everything else.

>>72882799
Because I'm only interested in English language holos. (Fuwamoco)

>>72954683
Try reading https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kanji