/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

i mean if they lived in japan
possible?

No

>>71683836
Yes they can

>>71683836
Emotional blackmail perhaps. Outside of that I can't see a way to hold a employee hostage.

>>71683836
>businesses can deny your 2-week notice
The very concept of your work place denying your resignation is a fucked concept that shouldn't exist.
I shouldn't even have to give you two weeks if you're enough of a fuckwit.

> It just seems a little strange that we had two graduations in the first two months of the year, a termination that same month, then silence.
> It seems a little strange that the rats that I have allowed to infest my brain don’t correspond to reality.

>>71683836
Yes according to the leaked contract yes they 100% can hold them hostage. ESPECIALLY if the talents are in Japan. There is also that clause that says Nijisanji can force talents to go to Japan. The way they enforce this is by threatening to terminate you and take your entire years pay.

>>71683836
No anon. Not even the initial premise. If a talent decides they want to fuck off, they can fuck off.
>B-but the fines!
A contract cannot fine you for 'leaving' or 'lost profits' unless there is tangible damage (leaving shortly before a performance requiring the company to refund tickets for example, after the performer was already paid for ticket sales) This is just basic damages shit and not some fantastical 'you have to pay us a billion bajillion because we say so :^)'. Contracts do not dictate or write law, and extortion is not something you can do just because you have a 'contract' that says you can.

So no. The people who stay at the company are staying because they chose to, unless AnyColor has them locked up in a room somewhere. In the case of Elira she has no future either way so she's probably just banking on AnyColor bailing her out of the mess they let her work herself into, or fix the mess they made her get involved with depending on how you think things went down.

>>71684130
Please learn some of the absolute basics of contract law anon, and stop making a fool of yourself.
>Muh year
Never going to happen, not even in your wildest dreams is that even a remote possibility.

>>71684161
thank you for the clarification, vox

>>71684276
You take that back you insipid double-nigger. Call me a sister if you must but comparing me to that pile of shit is too far.

>>71684018
>Suspension Half their monthly income is docked.

>Termination Income is claimed.

>Everything you bought with Nijisanji income belongs to Nijisanji

>Your voice belongs to Nijisanji

>If you want to fight us you must go to Japan

>Nijisanji is allowed to have the final say when you leave

>Nijisanji is allowed to sockpuppet your account

>Nijisanji is allowed to ammend your contract at anytime you have 2 weeks to challenge this... lol but if you tweet or post on discord we count that as agreement

>this contract auto renews by the way

>the only way to get out is if we give you permission to leave but we can deny your request

It's actually wild and scary.

>>71684236
It literally said that in the contract I have argued with Jews and Glowies who try harder to UHM ACKTUALLY.

>>71684661

>>71684729
>T-the contract said so!
If a contract says your head will explode when you sign it, do you expect that to be true as well? You need to learn how to read contracts nigger, this is a basic life skill and you're failing at it to an absurd degree.

>>71683836
As per their contract, they can. Read through it yourself, it is draconian. Though not 100% enforceable.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Ddc2tzB15mxygYPLuDd2f_XvOrLWz53/edit
Will they enforce it? Looking at their recent handling of canning that purple dragon, it certainly looks like they will try to ruin talents that leave. I am not familiar enough with the whole Zaion saga, but this document leak gave some insights into how controlling their contract model is. They are obviously preying on their talents.

>>71683836
No they can't.
They are not employee, just contract worker.

>>71683836
Try and stop them

>>71683836
Riku's parents are both wealthy and he's a trust fund baby.
He doesn't need to do things legally as long as he's willing to pay off investigators.

>>71683836
>Can Nijisanji decide to hold its vtubers hostage and refuse to let them graduate until they decide to let them?
People tend to downplay how painful financial penalties are. Sure you can graduate whenever you want, but if Niji can financially fuck you over hard enough, it's essentially over. People really want everyone to suddently turn into Batman.
Heck, even the Wactor girls couldn't just waltz out.
>Just hire a lawyer bro
Good lawyers cost money and cases can take a long time to finish (unless you're a Rushia-tier retard). It's just not worth it compared to wait an year or so.
>Can Nijisanji legally do that?
Yes
>Can they just say "No, not right now" then sign them up for more obligations to keep them chained for a little longer?
No, contract expires when contract expires.

>>71684661
>A very slanderous and autistic termination letter seeking to character assassinate you and ensure you don't hired in other agency

>>71683836
No it can't.

They don’t want to leave

>>71684080
No they can't lmao.
In fact, in the US you don't even need the 2 weeks notice technically, it's just a formality.

Having a job is a voluntary decision and you can quit anytime.

In Japan might be different though, idk

>>71684952
NTA but it's in the contract that Mindset went over. whether it's actually legal or enforceable is another question. most likely no.

>>71684018
>Emotional blackmail
Isn't that illegal in any first world country?

>>71683836
“Hostage” is realtive. Can they pit to them enough contract violation BS to force them into debt to repay them, force to declare bankruptcy and basically become a super-pariah in Japan? Yes if the contracts are retarded enough.
Can the livers get a lawyer and try go get out, which fom the contract we aaw it has been confirmed it’s possible? Probably.
Do the livers not living in Japan under any obligations? Fuck no, the law protects them from getting griefed like this, we are in this situation because Doki lawyered up and ghat scared her into Zaion her and backfired.
But to put it in one simple word: we can’t know or think who is staying on purpose and who does not right now. All I know is supporting the company is either supporting the culprits or supporting whe chains on the innocents.

Let it burn, then we will sort the truth oht of it.

>>71701375
But will people who boycott be still here when the building burns down or will have everyone moved on to something else.

>>71701083
>first world country
You see anon, Japan is in a strange place betwen the 1st world and colonial africa

>>71683836
By the contract, they more or less can hold you at least until it runs out, and even then, it auto-renews (and they can, for instance, amend it to extend while you're streaming, and you automatically accept). The financial penalties for ending the contract early are MASSIVE, especially if you're terminated in the process, and they can cost you your equipment to boot.

However, the contract is more or less unenforceable outside of Japan, and the penalties are technically illegal, even in Japan. But of course that all depends on the talent understanding that, and not simply believing Niji's threats. The contract isn't designed to be enforceable, it's designed to be terrifying.

And of course the talents can't say anything negative about Nijisanji while in Japan, or risk getting served to fight a three year prison sentence for defamation.

>>71701868
>The financial penalties for ending the contract early are MASSIVE, especially if you're terminated
Well, that, and they'll write a massive termination notice detailing every single minor misstep during your entire time with them, and straight up lie to make up several more, in an effort to make sure you can never work in the industry again. ...and these days you also have to hope you're not so tainted by the current scandals that no company will take you.

Going indi is a lot of work, and even then, the scandals may make it impossible to do so and expect to get any numbers, lest you're in a position to play the sympathy card, which is still a gamble.

Reportedly they do everything in their power to to make sure you feel like you're nothing without the company, and reportedly many of them believe it. I doubt how much Doki's success has shattered that illusion.

So yeah, between all those factors, Nijisanji can hold their vtubers hostage for quite some time. There might have been hope if the stock had crashed and burned today and throughout the week, but it's looking like they may yet managed to hold out until at least Q4.

The chuubas are royally fucked.

>>71684661
From a cynical standpoint, Anycolor is just doing what any other company in the entertainment business is doing : preying on the weak, suck them dry, and scrap them when they are useless. What’s surprising is how blatant they are about it. Observing the Mascarade is important.

>>71684661
>>Suspension Half their monthly income is docked
Their monthly income is always docked .
50/50. It's said blatantly in the contract
>Termination Income is claimed.
Blatantly wrong. They get the same 50% of the income the month you leave the company
>Everything you bought with Nijisanji income belongs to Nijisanji
Least obvious illiterate SEAmonkey. It said whatever Nijisanji gave to them should be returned after they leave
>Your voice belongs to Nijisanji
Blatant lie. This was never said
>If you want to fight us you must go to Japan
It says the contract is held under Japanese law. If someone has a problem with contract, they can just negotiate it with the people writing it. If you want to fight the Japanese company legally, of course you have to send lawyers to Japan
>Nijisanji is allowed to have the final say when you leave
Blatant lying
>Nijisanji is allowed to sockpuppet your account
Do you mean "management is allowed to have access to your account to manage it?" Because putting words in an employee's mouth isn't management. Learn what manage means, SEAmonkey
>Nijisanji is allowed to ammend your contract at anytime you have 2 weeks to challenge this... lol but if you tweet or post on discord we count that as agreement
Yeah,if you're notified about a change in the contract and you continue doing work on your work account instead of bringing up issues with it, they will assume you're okay with it since you're continuing working there
>this contract auto renews by the way
People get notified of contracts being automatically renewed
>the only way to get out is if we give you permission to leave but we can deny your request
And no where is this said in the contract

HoloDrones are the most illiterate, schizophrenic monkeys in the scene. They should all be culled

>>71683836
Yes they can. It's why Lulu graduated. It's also why Roa hasn't streamed in like 3 years.

>>71683836
Legally no, however shady businesses often prey on people who aren’t aware of their rights, naturally menhera men and women with limited life experience are usually pretty easy targets for that.

>>71705662
Sister, you do realize it isn't just Hololive you are dealing with, hmm? Literally every single faction of the vtubing community is against you. Now whyever could that be?
Captcha:RP DMG

>>71706755
>Literally every single faction of the vtubing community is against you. Now whyever could that be?

So just Hololive. Thanks

>>71706963
You're right. It's not every faction of the vtubing community.
It's literally the entire western online world at this point. When people like mutahar and even charlie are talking about it, you fucked up so bad it broke containment.

>>71706963
Hololive thinks they're everyone

>>71707131
>entire western online world
Oh so a bunch of irrelevant cucks like fatamerimutts and yuropoors then KEK

>>71708873
I know it's hard to grasp this but you know how sometimes people get sent money by viewers during streams? Well you kind of want more of that. And the only way to get more of that is to have new people find and join your stream while they have disposable income. Those are the people who don't want to join or send money when they hear your coworkers bullied someone to suicide.

>>71683836
did you not see the contract leak? they absolutely can

>>71709188
>words words words
Ain't reading all that fag

>>71709551
I can tell you can't read. That's why you're still shilling Nijisanji rather than wanting your oshi to get the fuck out of there.

>>71709691
Oh nyo what you gonna do about little cuck?

>>71709765
Same thing that Doki's doing. Having fun watching people actually stream entertaining things to a large audience. Have fun seething over a dying company.

>>71710004
The only one seething here is you dookieshart KEKKAROO

>>71683836
Vtuber companies have no contractual obligation to give someone a formal graduation. Even if your contract ends and you are in good standing with them they can simply not allow you to graduate, at their own discretion. You can quit at any time, as Vox says, and break your contract. That means you're on the hook for whatever the penalties are in the contract, if they can be enforced in court. In practice all the vtuber company can do is hold whatever outstanding payments they have to you, which is usually 1 month of income. Once your contract is up, they can't do anything to extent it without your agreement, and you are free to move on as long as your don't violate whatever noncompete provisions are in your contract.

>>71683836
Why would they?

>>71705662
>Their monthly income is always docked
The Consideration is 50% of your income from the Program, just to start.
The Penalty is 50% of that:
>In the event that Party B falls under the following items, Party A may demand from Party B a penalty equivalent to 50% of the amount of the Consideration, stipulated in Article 4, Paragraph 1, item (i), of the month preceding the month in which the date of the relevant event falls.
Or, depending on what you did, the whole thing:
>Party A may demand a penalty from Party B up to the higher of the following amounts:
>(1) The amount equivalent to the TOTAL amount of the Consideration received from Party A pursuant to the provisions in this Agreement or the Individual Agreement during the period when the Party B was in breach of Article 15, Paragraph 4.
OR, a whole damn year:
>(2) The amount equivalent to the total amount of the Consideration received by Party B from Party A based on the provisions of this Agreement or the Individual Agreement for the 12 MONTHS PRIOR to the month in which the Second Party was found to be in breach
PLUS DAMAGES:
>4. The provisions of the preceding three paragraphs shall not preclude Party A from claiming compensation from Party B for damages in excess of the penalty amount specified in the preceding three paragraphs.

Suffice to say not a lot of people can just eat a year of income, plus 'damages', which are entirely up to Niji to define, on the fly.

>Least obvious illiterate SEAmonkey. It said whatever Nijisanji gave to them should be returned after they leave
"Materials Etc." in Article 1.13 is defined as ANY equipment you use for the Program. "Smartphones, Applications, software related to the Program, manuals,
systems, materials, and other equipment necessary for VTuber activities."

In Article 10.4 we see:
>In the event of any of the following items, Party B shall immediately return the Materials Etc. to Party A, or suspend use of, etc. pursuant to the instructions of Party A. Provided, however, that this shall not apply in the event that Party A separately decides not to request return.
>(1) In the event that the VTuber Activities ends.
>(2) In the event that the terms of lending have passed.
>(3) In the event that this Agreement ends.
>(4) In the event that Party A requests Party B to return the Materials, etc. or suspend use of.
So yes, they CAN take any and all equipment used for the Program. They don't have to, but they reserve the right and can certainly threaten you with it.

>Your voice belongs to Nijisanji
>Blatant lie. This was never said
Actually it is stated in Article 12.7, but only so long as said voice is used as the character.

>If you want to fight us you must go to Japan
>It says the contract is held under Japanese law. If someone has a problem with contract, they can just negotiate it with the people writing it. If you want to fight the Japanese company legally, of course you have to send lawyers to Japan
Which is you must fight it in Japan means... Granted, no western court, and likely no court, would consider this anything but an Employment contract, at which point their insistence that the contract is governed by Japanese law is null and void and local employment law would take over. Sovereign nations don't let their citizens get exploited by foreign companies simply because a contract they signed says they are subject to foreign law. You can't sign away your labor rights. Granted, again, Niji is depending on their talents not knowing this because the contract isn't designed to be legally enforceable, but instead to terrorize the talent into obedience.

>>71705662
>Nijisanji is allowed to have the final say when you leave
>Blatant lying
That's exactly what it says. You can't leave unless Niji lets you, so long as the contract is in effect. There is no clause that allows Party B to end the agreement without Party A's permission until it expires, yet Party A can terminate the agreement whenever they want, without any notice, as per Article 20.

>Nijisanji is allowed to sockpuppet your account
>Do you mean "management is allowed to have access to your account to manage it?" Because putting words in an employee's mouth isn't management. Learn what manage means, SEAmonkey
The agreement gives management total control over all related accounts, and they've been caught sockpuppeting their talents on multiple occasions. Occasionally, talents have had to post confirmations on their PL accounts, just to prove it's indeed them.

>Nijisanji is allowed to ammend your contract at anytime you have 2 weeks to challenge this... lol but if you tweet or post on discord we count that as agreement
>Yeah,if you're notified about a change in the contract and you continue doing work on your work account instead of bringing up issues with it, they will assume you're okay with it since you're continuing working there
...and if they send that notification WHILE you're streaming? Guess what, that counts, you agreed. Not to mention how the hell do you contact them if you don't agree without automatically agreeing? Using the company Discord or your Program's account e-mail counts as agreeing. I suppose you could contest it by mail, but you can't stream or tweet in the meantime. Plus they can decide to notify you however they want, including freight mail.

>this contract auto renews by the way
>People get notified of contracts being automatically renewed
Contacted by a method of Party A's choosing, which could be anything, and you must deny it three months in advance. Plus they can always amend it to extend it.

Besides which every other article in the contract survives the contract as per Article 28. So even if you don't renew, or even if you are terminated, you still renew.

>>71713703
>Besides which every other article in the contract survives the contract as per Article 28. So even if you don't renew, or even if you are terminated, you still renew.
This one's nasty.

>>71713474
It's easy to lie when you blatantly misrepresent the contract and don't actually explain what the rules are.
>Consideration =50% of the amount paid to Nijisanji
The penalty never says an additional 50%. They can demand the total amount of money made from content that Nijisanji did not give permission to make. If they discover you gained a profit off content that they did not give permission to make in the past year, they can take the profit from that video. And yes, if you cause the company to suffer financial damages like broken equipment, you have to pay for it. Making the argument they can just take all your money is retarded
>plus 'damages', which are entirely up to Niji to define, on the fly.
Not how it works, retard. You have to prove how much the damages were to get someone else to pay it off otherwise that's illegal. You don't go into a fine china store , break a vase then are forced to pay 1,000 dollars extra for it

>So yes, they CAN take any and all equipment used for the Program. They don't have to, but they reserve the right and can certainly threaten you with it.
Yup, you can't read. Article 10, paragraph 2 specifically said the rest of the article is about things Nijisanji lends to members

>Actually it is stated in Article 12.7, but only so long as said voice is used as the character.
Yes, you can't use a Nijisanji character for personal use. Makes sense

>The contract is governed by Japanese law is null and void and local employment law would take over.
You don't know anything about the law and it shows. It's called the choice of law clause and if you consent to a contract being governed by a different country, it is.

https://clarkslegal.com/insights/articles/a-guide-to-contracting-internationally/#:~:text=This%20article%20examines%20some%20of,refrain%20from%20doing%20particular%20actions.
Read this cause you clearly need it

>>71713703
>That's exactly what it says
The contract says nothing about not being able to leave the contract and we know there's a different form. There is no clause saying someone can't leave the contract whenever they want because if there was one, it'd be stated and it isn't. It says nothing about Party B not being able to get out the contract
>The agreement gives management total control over all related accounts, and they've been caught sockpuppeting their talents on multiple occasions
Wrong. It says they're only allowed to manage and to manage means to oversee and direct. Like I said,forcing words onto someone isn't management and there's literally 0 evidence of anyone being skin walked. People retweeting stuff on PLs are to kill the retarded skin walking rrat
>..and if they send that notification WHILE you're streaming? Guess what, that counts, you agreed.
Proof? Because a stream going on while they are notified is an activity that happened BEFORE the notice
>Not to mention how the hell do you contact them if you don't agree without automatically agreeing? Using the company Discord or your Program's account e-mail counts as agreeing
No, it's not. They use Slack first off and communicating with the manager isn't content or activity produced under the character. You're stretching

>Contacted by a method of Party A's choosing, which could be anything, and you must deny it three months in advance
Three months is never said in the article and what method do you think they'd use to purposely make the message arrive late? Pigeon? It's obviously always an email or message from the manager

>Besides which every other article in the contract survives the contract as per Article 28. So even if you don't renew, or even if you are terminated, you still renew.
Retard. If the contract is terminated or not renewed, you aren't bound to anything in the contract except the things about leaving the contract after termination of it

>>71717445
>>71718321
>The penalty never says an additional 50%.
What the fuck do you think "50% of the Consideration" means!? Consideration is defined as "50% of the amount paid to and actually received by Party A with respect to the Distribution of the Contents" in Article 4, and this is describing the PENALTY. It's not a penalty if they aren't taking anything! And again they can take it ALL if they decide you violated any of dozens of provisions.

>Not how it works, retard. You have to prove how much the damages were to get someone else to pay it off otherwise that's illegal.
They aren't legal damages, they are damages as declared by Nijisanji. There is no third party arbitration. It's entirely up to Party A to decide what "damages" entails.

>Yup, you can't read. Article 10, paragraph 2 specifically said the rest of the article is about things Nijisanji lends to members
No, "Materials Etc" refers to ANY and ALL equipment used in Vtuber activities.

>You don't know anything about the law and it shows. [bullshit link]
That's for CONTRACTOR law. No western government, if any government, would consider anyone with this much control held over them a contractor. There's an exclusivity clause FFS! It's clearly an employment contract, which is subject to labor laws. Though again, that assumes the talent actually gets a lawyer to tell them that.

>Proof? Because a stream going on while they are notified is an activity that happened BEFORE the notice
They have to send you notice, there's nothing saying how nor that you have to receive the notice before agreeing to it. Article 23.2 says if Party B CONDUCTS (not "starts") ANY activity related to the Program within the fourteen day period, they accept. So if the written notice was SENT, which is the only thing Party A is required to do, and the talent was streaming at the time, they accept just by the fact that they were doing their job, whether the amendments were read or not.

>They use Slack first off and communicating with the manager isn't content or activity produced under the character. You're stretching
ANY activity related to the Program. So yes, including communicating on Slack. You're right in that it wouldn't hold up in court, but a lot of things here wouldn't, again, that isn't the intent.

>Three months is never said in the article and what method do you think they'd use to purposely make the message arrive late? Pigeon? It's obviously always an email or message from the manager
It's a two year contract that auto-renews, and you must notify that you do not wish to renew three months before the renew date. And yes, Pigeon if they want. They choose the communication method both in and out - meaning they can make you reply by pigeon if they want.

>Retard. If the contract is terminated or not renewed, you aren't bound to anything in the contract except the things about leaving the contract after termination of it
>EXCEPT THE THINGS ABOUT LEAVING THE CONTRACT AFTER TERMINATION OF IT.
Which is EXACTLY what Article 28 defines, and it defines more than half the articles in the damned contract as survivable.

Which would NEVER hold up in court, but again, like nearly everything else, it's just there to terrify the talent.

>>71683836
>Can Nijisanji hold its vtubers hostage?
no

>>71683836
How many organs are in Japan, right now?
Ask yourself the question again.
I hope every one of them has at least watched the Legal Mindset video breaking down their contract, they'd realize how worthless that thing is and open their eyes to more routes then following orders.

>>71724625
Haven't most of them returned by now?

>>71683836
>Genuine Question: Can Nijisanji hold its vtubers hostage?
yes

>>71724649
That's a good question because obviously I'm not watching any of them. Have they all come back? I heard quite a few of them were there not long ago.

Scarle is next if she does not watch her step.

>>71683836
If they live in Japan, they certainly have then in a chokehold, and its impossible to speak up or move on in the industry if you were not already well established. In that sense, they have the vtubing careers of their lesser talents in a complete chokehold.

Pomu is still being held hostage in her heart. The company has done irreparable damage to her as a person and she has been less confident compared to past years. Continue supporting Niji while it lasts. 10 people will have graduated / terminated by the end of the year.

>>71684953
>>71701868
Thanks for posting these

>>71683836
They are not doing so well. There may be a shortage of people willing to become hostages in the future.

tl;dr Yes
More than a sentence long answer: Yes, the contract they signed could establish an expiration date and a penalty for resigning before said expriration and/or an amount of time required before asking for a graduation (https://enhancv.com/blog/can-you-quit-a-contract-job/).).
Talent corps in general, not only vtubers, but also entertaiment or work agencies, tend to abuse this clause to borderline ilegal scenarios since the people signing in are both desperate and usually dumb enough to not read the fine print.
Same kind of abuse might happen on earnings sharings, which is how we ended up getting that delicious 2% meme.

>>71685986
Exclusivity voids all contractor claims.
Ask Uber, Amazon, Federal Express, etc. The biggest corporations couldn't spend enough money to persuade the courts.

They literally ARE doing it. The contracts are for a year. When the contract expires they have to let them leave. But there's no guarantee they'll let them "graduate". If you want to "graduate" (and get a huge graduation stream and emotional goodbye) you have to wait 6 months or more until they decide to let you. Mysta complained about this for example, he wanted to leave 6 months earlier than he did.
You can technically leave any time you want. But then you have to pay a huge termination fee that they decided upon, you don't get a graduation stream....etc.

People forget this is literally a black company

>>71683836
Of course. Many would be gone already without waiting in a queue.
What's even more sad, some were coerced into signing a gag order before being released.

When Kson said, "just let them go without any threats and loss" shows she and others in the industry knew what they were going through.

>>71683836
>Can they just say "No, not right now" then sign them up for more obligations to keep them chained for a little longer?
You can try to stop them