/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

Yeah, you eventually run out of collab material if you keep it self-contained. Meanwhile, Niji, VSJ, VOMS - they can keep themselves relevant by collabing with other organizations.

>>7070971
There have multiple out-of network collabs with holomems. Plus you fucking autists bitch endlessly whenever a holomem collabs with, say, vshojo.

>>7070971
If today's god-awful GMOD collab is any indication, I think holos will come to savor the segregation.

>>7071048
Hololive can't even collab with their own talents (holostars), it's fucking pathetic. Hololive will have a serious talent deficiency as the other agencies start picking up speed.

>>7070971
Fuck off every Niji fan is suffering from this. This is the worst collab NijiEN has ever done.

>>7070971
This isn't a good stream to try and push your cause, wait for a better collab.

PSA

>>7071175
seriously, it was terrible.

>>7071175
I missed it, can someone give me a breakdown?

>>7071200

Fubuki, Matsuri, Choco, HoloID, and Calli all did collabs with them...

>>7070971
Kill yourself collab beggar.

The worse collab, yet it got more viewers than VShojo playing with Kizuna Ai and some other JP vtubers in Among Us. I guess terrible taste overrules quality.

>Hololive has built a wall around its talents and anyone who works for hololive will slowly come to resent cover as they are isolated from the rest of the vtubing scene, as it leaves our oshis behind in the dust. Coco left for more reasons than just chinese anger.

>>7071048
fuck off, i'd rather they do a boring stream than collab with whores and dudes. they debuted as idols and should fucking keep at it

>fuck off, i'd rather they do a boring stream than collab with whores and dudes. they debuted as idols and should fucking keep at it

>>7071614
enjoy your sub 5k viewcount nijinigger or your STD ridden whores vshounigger

>>7071175
This was one of the worst streams I've ever watched and I could only stand 10 minutes of it. Seriously fuck veibae and zentraya. How anyone can watch those 2 cancer tumors is beyond me. I'm glad Hololive keeps those 2 degenerates away from their talents.

\
>enjoy your sub 5k viewcount nijinigger or your STD ridden whores vshounigger

>>7071200
They can you dumbfuck they just choose not to

>>7071723
> \
?

>>7070971
You niggers needs to start Hololive rent.

.= , =.
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jgs / | || `""""~"`
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>You niggers needs to start Hololive rent.

>>7070971
rent free

>>7070971
Yeah I bet they're really sad they can't join this collab

>>7071175
keked

>>7071485
Vshojo being Vshojo.

>>7071175
zen ruining every collab like always

All threads about the collab are dead, no one even watching anymore.

>>7071485
>Server crash
>Vshojo being vshojo
>Everyone feels soulless because its quiet
>tranny zethreya keep spamming his TTS
>Finana said "is that furry artwork?"

>>7070971
ohgay rrat.

>>7071485
>Spend the first 50 mintues on the main menu doing "ara ara' and "Hi honey" memes.
>The server host starts a game of Trouble in Terrorist Town, despite the nijisanji girls clearly having Hide and seek in their titles and wanting to play that.
>Then never explains how Terrorist Town works.
>All the girls are confused, thinking it's just deathmatch.
>Switch the map to a spongebob map, nijisanji girls refuse to play for copyright issues, other girls play the through match anyways. While nijisanji just waits.
>Finally start prop hunt "hide and seek", forget to invite Pika and Pomu.
>Both girls sit on the main menu for like fucking 10 mintues by themselves because they aren't even in a voice chat together.
>Elira clearly being done with this shit, doesn't even say a word, just sits in silence not playing.
>A hour and half in, realise this collab is shit, finally joins a discord all together, think about just quiting, tries to play prop hunt again.
>Pika has lag issuses and doesn't understand how to play.
>Pika and Nyanners still aren't talking at all.
It's still going and it's at lest ok now, the girls are having fun. But holy shit that start alone was the worst vtuber stream I have ever seen. I wouldn't be surprised if it's edited out, it was that bad.

It had a scuffed beginning, but it's gotten pretty good once it got going.

Is being a vtuber the ultimate cuckoldry?

I cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than being a chuuba. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are motivating, supporting, entertaining and rearing your viewers from your debut to graduation solely so they can go and ravage or get ravaged by another viewer.
All the hard work you put into your chuba activities -the streams, the concerts, the events, bantering with them. All of it has one simple result: you will never be able to be with them.

You supported your viewers and motivated them to become a better person. They stopped being neets and perfected themselves for you, their oshi. Who benefits? If you're lucky, a random person who had nothing to do with them and how they got better thanks to your streams. This person gets to enjoy your viewer every night instead of letting them watch your streams and buy your merch. They get the benefits of their sweet and kind personality that came from the way you supported them.

As a vtuber, you are LITERALLY dedicating your precious time and money for another viewer to get stolen by someone else. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically...

>>7073305
Logically this only applies to Hololive.

>>7073414
>He doesn’t know

>>7073305
No
You're a cuck
That is all

What in the absolute fuck is the dinosaur thing

I think Hololive is just too idol-focused. Everything they do has to be planned and approved by Cover so they cant operate as freely as other vtubers. This leads to burnout and a feeling of being trapped.

>>7070971
Ogey

>>7073305

>>7073305
You're a schizo for thinking you have any kind of relationship with vtubers. You're just a viewer and nothing more.

>>7072595
I just tuned in. For a 14 person collab, with some of them being notoriously known to be lively, everything feels dead.

>>7070971
Hololive seems to have no problem collabing with the most popular anituber on the planet responsible for anime being popular in west.
Begone RRAT

>>7071567
Unironically this. The reason I watch Hololive is because its a lot better than anything else. Why would I want them to collab with inferior talent?

>>7070971
The entertainment industry is a bitch, no matter how much fame you get. If we're gonna be frank and completely honest, continually tapping someone day in and day out can be draining, even if you're bursting with creativity and have all the freedom to do what you want. Let's use Watame as an example, I could see a kind soul like that getting tapped out by her fans, no matter how thankful she is for them. Some of these girls and guys have good work ethic and talent, but it would honestly pain me more to see that just drained out of them just to say they were there to amuse me for the rest of my days. I'd think that anyone else that cares for them and their careers feels the same. I'd want them to have their good run, accomplish their goals, and then leave the stage when they feel like.

>>7070971
wow, talk about dodging a bullet

>>7073808
>responsible for anime being popular in west.
Kudos to the first anon that wrote that line.

>>7073808
>responsible for anime being popular in west
I don't think it was him. Maybe the guy who killed his entire family?

>>7070971
hololive is the wwe of vtubers

>>7074213
Mr. Anime baby. Only true OGs remember that story.

>>7070971
>trannies, whores, talentless trendhoppers, leechers, nyanners.
HARD PASS, NO THANKS.
>resent cover
For what? putting them at the top of the food chain? so they don't need to collab with these creatures? lmao.

>>7073584
and you're a retard that can't read

>>7074443
Never forget they've taken over the biggest streaming platform.

>>7070971
So you want Cover to force them to collab? I thought people are for freedom? Forcing them to collaborate with people they do not want seems like no freedom to me.

>>7074716
>June hours watched
>2.5 Million
Holy shit, that's fucking lot for Vtuber and ironically I've never heard this chuubas

>>7074716
>Nimu
CHINGA TU MADRE

How is the tranny dragon so popular?

>>7070971
>Hololive has built a wall around its talents
That's a lie, even recently Ina had a collab with Pikamee, but for the sake of argument let's say you're telling the truth. Gatekeeping is good for online communities, and it's equally as good for vtubers, as evidenced by the dumpster fire collab your image alludes to. Pikamee and a bunch of whores, what a great way to spend a Sunday.

>>7070971
OP is actually based.

>>7074827
Bahwoo is pretty well known on Twitch, if you've ever seen any stream on Twitch, chances are you've seen someone posting his emotes, also has a top tier avatar (he's the panda with the hammer), the stream hours a bit buffed since he's debuted as a vtuber late march

>>7072635
>tranny zethreya keep spamming his TTS
Ive never watched Zen but do they use TTS instead of speaking??

>>7070971
>Hololive has ridiculously, UNFATHOMABLY kino collabs like culture festival
>Outside collabs are like this sewage factory of a stream
I forever stay KNEELING to Cover. Holy fucking shit. Putting the industry on their back, 2 years running.

>>7075103
yes

>>7075523
Vshojo x Kizuna AI was kino. Same for the concert with nyanners and AI

>>7073261
Holy shit, what a trainwreck. You'd think for such a large collab they'd prepare better.

>>7075857
I believe it happened very suddenly. I know Mouse already had other stuff planned today. I would imagine many of them were only contacted only a couple of hours in advance unlike many of the other collabs they've done.

>>7070971
>People really pretending this collab was good just to shit on hololive
Hilarious, if anything is another example that quantity does not equal quality

>>7073305
i love this pasta, thank (You)

>>7075802
Roru roru rumao

>>7076118
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>7075802
You are 100% correct. That concert was awesome. So Vshojo seems to be fine. Looks like the bad element here is NijiEN. The talentless hacks of NijiEN really shouldn't have been invited.

>>7074716
ok now show the statistics of every other big twitch streamer

>>7076379
should also show stats of every other big youtuber to show how insignificant vtubers are on a global scale

>>7070971
>uses an image of a collab that's the perfect example of why and how Cover protects their talent from trainwreck content

I felt terrible for the NijiEN girls and Pikamee through this entire thing, and I doubt NijiEN will make the same mistake twice.

>>7070971
>a collab where everyone walked away looking like boring retards to anyone not familiar with the tuber already
Yeah I dont know why Cover doesnt do this

>>7075103
Pingas

>>7076379
>>7076504
The stats are showing their growing popularity, a climb. Not that they're currently the most popular form of entertainment in the world. Gura was in that Taco Bell commercial as well, that's just showing a growing popularity.

>>7074716
>everyone else climbing by double or triple their january viewcounts
>veibae's views absolutely cratering

you love to see it

>>7076346
This is true, the hololive x vshojo collabs have all been good, as well as generally most indytubers. Mouse and Pikamee was also great.

>>7076710
She didn't stream much in June.

>>7076809
Similar reason to why Melody and Hajime aren't the top 10. Melody's primary fandom isn't on twitch, it's on chaturbate, and Hajime never fucking streams.

>>7076893
>Melody's primary fandom isn't on twitch, it's on chaturbate
Why I'm not surprise?

>>7076346
>The talentless hacks of NijiEN really shouldn't have been invited.
Pomu is dying

>>7076710
Worked 10 days in June
She'll be around 400-500k for July

>>7070971
fascinating, I think more like this could work in the long run, but they need to practice more and they need a better game to do it.

>>7076981
What king of question is this? That's literally what she does. She's a anime camgirl. Probably the most well known one. That's her primary source of income. She did that before doing vtubing for fun, and still does. Everybody knows about the anime girl who put all the real girls out of business on chaturbate.

>>7071175
This collab actually made me appreciate the hololive wall, I mean they allowed Ina to collab with Pika so it's not like everyone is locked out but man not even lazulight and Pika were enough to carry this one.

>>7076981
How did you not know? That's her main thing.

>>7076981
>>7077228
>>7077255
How did you people did not get it?

>>7077083
Ironmouse can still have the offline collab with Calli first

>Hololive has built a wall around
Good. Hololive should just be Hololive.
>hololive will slowly come to resent cover as they are isolated from the rest of the vtubing scene
That only applies to EN. It'll be fixed when more generations are created. one day, they will have their own ecosystem that there's no point collabing outside Hololive anymore.

Overall, Hololive should just be Hololive.

>Coco left for more reasons than just chinese anger.
It wasn't because she was isolated from the vtuber scene. Coco doesn't give a fuck outside Hololive. The reason she left is because her identity was stripped, and she started comparing herself to her co-workers who excelled at their own content and became unhappy. better leave early than loathe the company in the long run.

>>7070971

>Types this
>After one of the most disastrous shitshows of a collab ever to collab

Wow, what a faggot!

>>7075986
I'm pretty sure at the start of the stream. Pomu said this was prepared before their granny collab.
And while they were talking about quiting, the whale said they had it tested a hour before the collab.
Doesn't really explain why Pika had such shit ping and didn't even know how to play the game, though.

>>7077619
She had creative differences as well. Early on she wanted to collab with melody cause they know each other but that didn't happen cause Cover didn't like Melody being a camgirl iirc.

>>7077619
>Overall, Hololive should just be Hololive.
literally impossible is like this is your first time in the internet

>>7070971
Outside of Pika and Pomu, this collab looks like absolute shit.

>>7077948
Perhaps not everyone involved was notified they were going to be apart of the collab until today.

>>7078001
>Outside of Pika and Pomu, this collab looks like absolute shit.
Don't worry I'm sure the second time is going to be better

>>7078001
Ironmouse and Silvervale are wholesome as fuck bro

>>7072635
>zentreya TTS
I had been avoiding listening to that troon, but now having made the mistake of tuning into that stream, I can confidently say that's one of the most fucking terrible things I've had to listen to in a while.

>>7070971
Whose stream should I watch for this collab?

finana was just munching on chips

>>7078223
None, it was trash

>>7078176
>but now having made the mistake of tuning into that stream, I can confidently say that's one of the most fucking terrible things I've had to listen to in a while.
that is difficult to believe.

>>7077519
Your ESL must have prevented you from communicating whatever point it is you were trying to make.

>>7070971
Apparently this collab was a trainwreck. Vshit must be avoided at all costs. Hololive and Nijisanji should collab with each other and leave these other clowns out if it.

>>7078311
>None, it was trash
anon 6/10 is not trash

>>7078311
dilate

>>7078373
You will never be Japanese. You have no ancestry, you have no citizenship, you have no skills that would make Japan ever want you. You are a shut-in self-hating white man twisted by delusions of mythical Japanese superiority and exposure to Japanese media into a disgusting mockery of nature’s perfection.

All 'validation' you get from other people in this position couldn't be worse in making you believe that spending years of your life learning a globally useless language to a first-grader's level was a worthwhile use of your time, but one can't expect that an individual as pathetic as you will ever know the value of the youth you threw away in doing that.

Actual Japanese are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of linguistic evolution have allowed natives to identify frauds from mannerisms and vocabulary alone. Even if your written text of self-hatred and attention begging akin to a stray dog's somehow passes as normal (it won't), any Japanese person will immediately cut all ties when they hear the voice and accent of someone who is not only a basic Japanese speaker at best, but worth no more than garbage in skills, accomplishments, and likeability.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile and laugh to yourself believing that watching a content creator that you understand 20% of at best is somehow superior than watching your own kind, as you project your disgusting traits onto your entire kind. However, deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight, and you know that. You know that all you do now is have an entirely new linguistic medium in which to be ignored, and not even the exotic trait of being foreign makes up for just how uninteresting of a person you are.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a Western man is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably Caucasian.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back. Hate yourself and apologize for being white to some Japanese entity that exists only in your mind while actual Japanese people put in effort to learn English for the valid reason of it being the global language.

>>7078373
it was actually 200% high octane lulz, but we're pretending it's not for political reasons

>>7078411
>>7078431
Why don't you propose a stream for anon to watch if you think It's worth? I really don't think he should watch it.

>>7077977
>She had creative differences as well
refer to >her identity was stripped
>Early on she wanted to collab with melody
That's the only time she showed interest outside Hololive.

>>7077991
What do you mean?

>>7078602
Anon is saying lurk more

>>7078223
I watched Pomu and it was little fun after the 1 and half hour shitstorm at the start... it's private atm though.
Maybe HarukaKaribu, I'm pretty sure she was the server host, so she was always in game.
Pikamee if you actually want the shitshow.

>>7078787
No, i really don't get it. Is it about Hololive changing? or EN free from Idol activities? If you have the answer then just give it.

Pomu was molested by Finana.

>>7078485
I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.

>>7070971
So what's the point of male collabing with 10+ females. They never replied to whatever he was saying, it's like they ghosted and ignored that there is a another person here there. And even between females it was awkward just like among us collabs too many people who haven't really collabed with each other and have zero connection.

>>7078311
>>7078373
>>7078411
>>7078496
>>7078564
was it bad enough of a collab that all the nijis privated it or was it due to copyright

>>7079057
not him but i think HoloEN is more about entertainment than idolshit, that's why mori can record rap songs, you could prob even record metal or electronic songs if you'd want to

>>7079568
some copyrighted techno2000.wav was blaring on the game server

>>7070971
Hololive built its walls to accommodate their rabid holonigger fanbase who shit themselves in rage anytime their oshis even talk about wanting to work with someone who isn’t apart of the special club. It wasn’t until EN and ID endlessly insisting did they even get to collab with anyone outside of their cringe senpai-kouhai dynamic. The sooner Cover folds, the sooner the vtubing scene will improve

Pika is trans...

>>7079568
>was it bad enough of a collab that all the nijis privated it or was it due to copyright
why do you need to ask?

>>7079606
Thought about it more, they're basically saying Hololive can't stay Hololive.

>Mainstream, too good for twatter shit to ignore
>Eventually caught in a trap
>Hololive has now to pander the wrong crowd
Thus
>literally impossible is like this is your first time in the internet >>7077991

>>7079716
Huh. Hololive has had a lot of collaborations outside of Hololive: Nijisanji, Kagura Mea, Tamaki and co., Kagura Nana, Himekuma Ribon, Hinokuma Ran, Inaba Haneru, amongst others. Actual retard here with no clue what they are saying.

>>7079716
>rabid holonigger fanbase who shit themselves in rage anytime their oshis even talk about wanting to work with someone who isn’t apart of the special club
Amazing, it's like you take /vt/ as the majority of fanbase.
>endlessly insisting did they even get to collab with anyone outside of their cringe senpai-kouhai
Bullshit. THERE WON'T BE ANY HASSLE AS LONG AS YOU PICK THE RIGHT COLLAB PARTNER, if you're talking about E-celebs and Vshojo collabs, then anyone complaining is fucking right.
>E-celebs
We watch Vtubers because they're vtubers. And you're not from the majority, why should Hololive cater from several retards as opposed to the Majority?
>Vshojo
Literal garbage

Overl, NO ONE'S GOING TO COMPLAIN AS LONG AS THEY DON'T PICK THOSE BULLSHITTERY.

>>7070971
You posted this falseflag shitpost without even watching that disaster of a collab, huh?

>>7080518
>We watch Vtubers because they're vtubers. And you're not from the majority, why should Hololive cater from several retards as opposed to the Majority?
>>7080518
>Overl, NO ONE'S GOING TO COMPLAIN AS LONG AS THEY DON'T PICK THOSE BULLSHITTERY.
>this one part of this tiny mongolian basket weaving board is the the majority.of hololive or vtubers fanbase
Nigger you're fucking retarded. Collabs like these will continue to happen because social media exists and vtubers and hololive are far more popular on other parts of the internet where people don't give a shit about whether anyone collabs with vshojo or not because most people outside of 4chan like them anyway. Get your HRT and deal with it.

>>7070971
Every vtuber in that image looks like different iterations of the exact same content creator. Which one is the mmo junkie? The fps apex predator? The master tactician? The rpg endurance streamer? The platforming priestess? The sci-fi fanatic? The visual novel voyeur? The horror loving hipster? The mystery master? The rhythm ravage? The cyberpunk commando? The fighting faahionista? The amazing adventurer? The action aficionado? They all look like the same type of mainstream western pop culture to me, devoid of niches or specialization. Then again, maybe my eyesight's just not very good.

>All these idoltards itt
Take your idol culture and shove it up your ass, the faster cover realizes only their sub turbo autistic rapist fans care about idol culture and the rest of the world sees hololive has a content creator branch rather than an idol parade the best.
Dance classes? Bitch don't make me laugh get your ass in the chair and keep saying funny stuff for my own entertainment.
There's a reason why i'm investing more time in indies that do whatever the hell they want to do instead of playing pretendo. There's 41 hololive units rn, can you really tell me with a straight face that every single one of them is an idol?

>>7087460
Sasuga seething freedom enjoyer

>>7087460
who are you quoting.

>>7087460
>There's a reason why i'm
Who are you and why should we care?
Hololive will become more and more popular for being Hololive, while your Indies can only dream of joining. and your Indies can go decide to suddenly stop streaming forever. happy seething =]

>>7087838
>Who are you and why should we care?
You shouldn't, it's obvious bait.

>>7070971
Imagine a EN Vtuber agency relying on collabs with another EN Vtuber from a different agency


The State of the EN Vtuber community atm

>>7071175
This. The best thing Hololive did was build the Hololive wall.
This retard is a dumb useless nigger >>7070971.

>>7070971
I'd rather have literally 0 collabs than one with Nyanners

>>7073261
>Switch the map to a spongebob map, nijisanji girls refuse to play for copyright issues, other girls play the through match anyways. While nijisanji just waits.
>Half the members waiting
>waiting
>on a collab stream

This has to be bait right? It couldn't have been actually this bad right?

>>7076090
> Ogeys with Peko anime version
top kek

>>7074716
>they've taken over the biggest streaming platform
Yea, because Holo's aren't there. If Cover announces a branch dedicated streaming to twitch, 200% they'll capture twitch, and likewise, dominate the Vtubing scene.

>>7092698
Based
>>7093108
We are talking about vshitshow here buddy.

>>7093108
Did they forget Nijisanji is a Japanese company?

>>7093108
>Vwhore is in it
Why do you think Holobrony outside of /vt/ hate them (minus mousey) in first place?

>>7093108
All Jp girls have private their videos because there more copyright music later on.
But here is Froot watching Pomu staring at the ground, muted.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1098017144?t=01h02m22s

>OP blatantly lies.
>Thread has 140+ replies
What the fuck?

>>7094322
Read the thread retard.

>>7094729
>Read my shit bait and tribalfagging
Make a better OP

>>7094782
>Complains about thread
>Doesn't read it
Why are Teamates like this?

>>7094980
t.deadbeat

>>7095765
>Uses common logic
>t.deadbeat
Why are Teamates like this?

>>7093943
was she afk the whole time? Jesus...

>>7070971
If they wanted to play Prop Hunt why wouldn't they just play any of the Prop Hunt inspired games on Steam, like Witch It? Who the fuck thought this was a good idea?

>>7096676
>Someone complaining and had no relations to Ame whatsoever
>Immediately blames it on teammates
Why are deadbeats like this?

>>7096270
>Someone complaining and had no relations to Ame whatsoever
>Immediately blames it on teammates
Why are deadbeats like this?

>>7097308
Because Teamates never read anything that's posted and just bitch 24/7
It's pretty common knowledge but I'm sure you would know that since you don't read threads.

>>7096702
All the different prophunt games were mentioned by Silver I wonder why Zen wanted Gary's mod so bad

>>7074915
This, I really don't understand how people can listen to the non-stop TTS. I mean sure, maybe there's some kinda appeal or personality under that but it just seems like such a massive filter.

>>7096702
They're stuck in 2013

>>7096702
Probably because Gmod is cheaper than witch it

>>7070971
>fans complaining about decisions made by management in response to fan backlash.
you fags just ruined it for yourself and for me, keep crying.