/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>70062794
Because in the long run, it alienates yourself from society and make you dependent of vtubers that are only interested on your money, and you giving them a like on their social media.

Do you think that parasocial vtubers don't have a social life like you? Think again retard, most of them have a flourishing social life that they enjoy with their loved ones IRL.

>>70063100
So because there's a risk you could become dependent on them, that means they're bad?
Does that make alcohol bad as well because some people are heavily reliant on it to drown their sorrows on a daily basis vs someone who drinks casually but may want to get drunk on a day that they're sad? Why does it have to be black and white with no in between?

there are people who think they've got everything figured out and have decided its their duty to tell everyone else how to live correctly

>>70063392
>Alcohol, a fucking inanimate object
>A human being
False equivalence, retard.

>>70062794
Being parasocial is a fine thing, as long as it's a two way street. Just make sure that you are ONLY parasocial for vtubers that themselves are parasocial for (you)

>>70062794
Because it is. Watch vtubers for entertainment, not companionship.

>>70062794
We are all parasocial, no matter what the sisters say.

>>70063811
that is literally parasocial

>>70062794
they dont want to admit it that they would steal from their parents just to give more money to vox

Nothing wrong with being parasocial as long as you're self-aware

>>70062794
I think people ignore how common parasocialism is and for some reason have pigeon-holed it into being a streamer thing.
Have you seen how normies treat their every day celebrities? Singers, actors, influencers, athletes, religious and political figures etc. Compared to some dude falling in love with an anime girl on his screen there are so many more dangerous forms of parasocialism out there. It’s how people fall into cults, riot and beat their wives when their sports team loses, or keep voting absolute morons into office. Fuck, just look at how some people react when their favourite fictional character dies.
In my opinion it’s totally normal and even human nature for human beings to get overly attached to figures they don’t genuinely know. Humans crave connection and community after all. What matters is how you handle your parasocialism and if you let it ruin your life or if it makes you lash out and do bad things.

>>70062794
They're projecting their weakness and inability to enjoy things in a healthy manner onto others.

>>70062794
I feel like it only became a massive problem in the vtuber scene when Luxiemsisters starting going wild. I'd maybe encountered the word a couple of times pre-Luxiem.

>>70062794
it's not inherently bad but the reality is that most people are too fucking emotionally retarded to handle a parasocial relationship without falling deeper and deeper until you've completely lost yourself eventually so a lot of people denounce it entirely and say it's the concept itself of parasociality that's bad.

>>70064378 (me)
Also worth noting that a parasocial relationship doesn't actually mean "a relationship where a celebrity tries to milk their fans with affection" like most retards on twitter seem to think but I'm playing along for the sake of clarity since we all know what we mean anyway.

>>70063811
That's parasocialism, retard.

>>70063608
No argument, huh?

nothing wrong with being parasocial, I will kill myself if my oshi ever speaks to a male on stream btw

>>70062794
To sum things up nicely:

>Dependency = Bad
>Co-Dependency = Not Bad

Vtubers are definitely not Co-dependent of their fans, what count is their image. As long as it's positive, new people will always come.

As for you, if you have money to spend and want to support your favourite entertainer, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If you start spending your money looking for affection, stop it. Even 3 digit views is more than 100 names and you can be sure they don't know them all.

All parasocial interests are unhealthy, there are worse things but this shit is ultimately a Buisness and they are not your friends. Also the amount that vtubers fans put each other down is pretty gross. Pretty toxic fans overall

>>70063392
When you start using vtubers as a replacement for real relationships, that's when you're well in to the alcoholic stage.

That being said if every vtuber fan were minnows like me the industry would have collapsed right at the start.

>>70063608
far more people are alcoholics than addicted to vtubers

>>70064781
>parasocialism

>>70064794
Because your argument is a fallacy, so it's YOU the person without an argument, retard.
>>70064899
False equivalence, you can't compare a human being with an inanimate object that is a drug

>>70064880
>If you start spending your money looking for affection, stop it.
But even that's not exactly bad, so long as it's not your only source of happiness. There's nothing inherently wrong with seeking affection from them, but when it reaches the point where you're sending hundreds and begging them for attention in every single stream and you go into a breakdown when you can't, then something has gone evidentially wrong

>>70065021
You're trying to say that being parasocial can be dangerous and I'm trying to explain to you that being a little invested and having a small parasocial relationship, such as viewing a vtuber as entertainment and using them for entertainment, is not a bad thing vs using them as your life blood and only source of happiness. Hence the comparison to alcohol. A little bit of it or even a regular amount is not bad, but too much can ruin your life.
So please explain to me why that's a bad thing without playing semantics and cherry picking irrelevant points. We aren't on reddit.

>>70063792
This is why watching 2 views is the true vtuber experience.

>>70065245
watch out they might downdoot you

>>70065245
First of all, alcohol is bad for you even on small amounts and has been proved.
Secondly, being parasocial is a dangerous behavior to the watcher because not only there's no reward for that, but because it also affects that person negatively on the long run, by making him dependent on a false relationship that he is using as a cope for his lack of IRL social interaction.
There's no such thing as a small parasocial relationship, you either are parasocial or you aren't, the only thing that change is how deep are you on that parasocial relationship.

A GFE vtuber exploit lonely people for a monetary gain and see her parasocial fans as numbers, it's as simple as that.

>>70063100
>Because in the long run, it alienates yourself from society
My dude have you looked at society recently?

>>70065623
>First of all, alcohol is bad for you even on small amounts and has been proved.
I highly doubt that taking a sip of wine one a week or a beer every once in a while, or using it as a food ingredient is going to be so bad for me to the point that I will die from it 10 years from now, but you carry on.
But aside from that, your entire argument just sounds like projection. I can't even argue with it because you're speaking of utterly hypothetical situations that paints everything with a broad brush that i'm beginning to think you don't actually know what the word means.
So by your logic, it's bad to watch any vtuber whatsoever because it's a small parasocial relationship even if it's literally just using them as entertainment?
Mate, I'm sorry, but you don't have a clue what you're banging on about.

>>70064805
based

I don't understand the appeal of watching streamers if you aren't at least a little parasocial (have an interest in getting to know the streamer either by interacting or by watching others interact). People who say they watch purely for entertainment seem to me to just be deluding themselves. There's a plethora of other ways they could be entertained but they choose this one specifically for some reason.

I also don't see how it's necessarily unhealthy. People are perfectly capable of having a social life outside of vtubers while still caring about their favourite one(s). (Some people aren't and that's not great, but that's a separate issue.)

I don't view it as much different than people who have an interest in celebrity gossip or reality TV or things like that (with the only real difference being you can actually interact with them).

Relying on streamers to fulfill your social cravings is literally all upside. No effort, no commitment, no competition. No putting up with boring hobbies, relatives, menhera moments. No insane politics, no catching diseases. The only reason anyone other than normies is against it is FOMO, and everyone would be happier if they destroyed the concept of FOMO in their heads.

>>70066375
Until you get to the point of digging their rm info and went schizo because the have a relationship irl

>>70062794
Everyone is parasocial towards a streamer anyways, just don't act as a retard

>>70062794
>one-sided relationship with an e-celeb
>why bad??????
gee anon, I have absolutely no idea!

>>70063392
If alcohol was a sentient monolith and chose to continue boozing up alcoholics as well as moderate drinkers, then yes, it would be bad.

>>70066467
Skill issue

>>70064251
You're getting closer. Most of the people saying parasocialism is bad are women (or really, feminists). Men like it, so it's automatically bad and must be "fixed" or "changed."

Most of the people saying "it's bad to be parasocial are also the same people who are paying the big bux to listen to Vox's ASMR streams.

>>70063100
I was already alienated from society long before vtubers were a thing, no loss for me.

>>70066498
Alcohol is an industry you know. There are people out there making decisions that result in harm to alcoholics for the sake of profit (and benefits to casual drinkers).

>>70062794
Femcels and cucks aren't "people"

>>70066498
I don't understand how this point is flying over your head.
Alcohol can be an addiction. Just like how parasocial relationships can be an addiction.
Obviously there are literal things that are different in alcohol from parasocial relationships but they can both be used as a crutch and can be very unhealthy.
Drinking casually or even moderately does not now automatically mean doing any drinking whatsoever is bad because some people develop severe addiction to it and use it as their main coping mechanism. Just like how some people using vtubers as entertainment (which is parasocial) or being attached to that vtuber now means it's all bad because schizo joe decided he wants to devote all his life savings to Biboo or something and he goes into a severe mental breakdown if she graduates.

Traditional fleshstreamers like Vinny are parasocial too. The only difference is that a play pretend friend (which normal male streamers are) are less likely to make you go apeshit than play pretend girlfriends (which arguably isn't vtuber exclusive). As long as you're self aware and you don't get mad when it turns out to not be real, it's fine.

>>70066751
This guy gets it

>>70062794
always ends in misery because vtubers are ultimately all 3dpd whores. It's pointless.

>>70062794
look st rushia and yukofags

parasocial is an umbrella term that mean a broad type of situations. To me personally it doesn't mean jack-shit

>chuuba reads your messsages from chat
>chuuba plays games and watches anime you suggested
>chuuba specificaly cites your handwritten letter as a thing that helped them through a hard time
Mad sisters and incels: "They don't know you exist!"

im a little parasocial, but that's normal. i do sometimes concernfag in my head over people too, but i keep it to myself usually. streamers are also parasocial too, though, it goes both ways

>>70063100
Fpbp
/thread

>>70066854
Yeah those are the best examples lol. It might’ve worked but the person has got be committed. It wasn’t healthy for either parties involved. You can’t just half-ass pretending a relationship. You either go all in or you don’t at all.

>>70066836
beanyacht is my oshi, no sarcasm

>>70066830
Me disagreeing with you doesn't mean I don't understand what you're trying to say, manchild.
The fact is that the majority of vtubing is cultivated around parasociality and always has been. Intentionally goading schizos into an eventual meltdown by leaning hard into the parasociality is irresponsible and sociopathic. Simple as.

>>70066906
>actually falling for it
NGMI

>>70062794
because giving money to women is a bad thing

>>70062794
Because we've known for like 60 years that it's not that good.
The harm is also severely overstated however

>>70067178
So your argument with my point is hypothetical situations and your own assumptions based off of nothing factual nor any evidence. Got it.

>>70067042
Rushia didn't half ass it. It's easy to memoryhole since it is an inconvenient truth but for a long time if you asked here if a vtuber can truly love their audience, you'd get like 10 Rushia images as a reply. She nailed the act down perfectly, better than anyone before her or anyone that came after. When the discord message came up you had an army defending her and saying they were just playing apex or some shit.

>>70067246
fiftyseventhPBP
but with the caveat of giving money to women for sex while in a country where your currency has tremendous buying power, THAT is, in fact, a good thing (I tested it)

It's a false dichotomy: people who say being social is a bad thing always imply that the alternative is getting in a normal, healthy relationship. What they don't realize or don't want to admit is that for most parasocial people a normal relationship is either impossible or undesirable due to their life circumstances, and the choice isn't between a parasocial relationship and a normal one, but between a parasocial relationship and no relationship at all.

becase calling it "parasocial" was a mistake as it sounds too spooky and easily misleads retards into thinking it's just obsessive stalking/hardcore unicorn behavior instead of what every streamer who isn't a world class professional gamer relies on to survive

>>70067495
Stop buying argentinian sex slaves for 1 dollar each...

>>70062794
Parasocial is the word i use as a substitute for annoying or weird.
I don't want to lose viewers by telling them what they actually are.

>>70067420
>give simple reply
>that's a uhh hypothetical unfactual evidenceless assumption and uhh...
What an explosion of mental gymnastics in a single sentence, like a triple backflip of cope. My "evidence" is every highly parasocial vtuber who parasitized schizos until she no longer needed to or slipped up with the act. Literally days ago the catalog was full with one who just up and quit. Are you going to pretend to not know anything about Rushia? This is sad.

>>70067260
>Because we've known for like 60 years
yet so many people act as if it hadn't been a thing before livestreaming
streamer/e-celeb culture just made it more common

>>70067732
Hi Pippa

>>70067732
Then be honest and actually say what you think of your fans, since you clearly think that little of them.

>>70067260
But we also conveniently ignore the good effects that it has?

>>70066751
Same. Alien gang rise up

>>70067242
I didnt say they love me, I said they know I exist
can you argue without strawman or ad hominem?

>>70062794
Watching streams is a waste of time? I'll have to remember that next time I'm surrounded by fags who are on about sports constantly like they can still play like they did when they were 18. It's all bad. Ban tv. Burn Hollywood. Start book clubs.

>>70066213
See >>70064452
If you wanna be technically correct it is impossible not to be in a parasocial relationship with someone you actively want to follow, that happens as soon as you have a favorite artist/musician/comedian/whatever. What people try to say is that they are able to be a huge fan while remaining sane and conscious about the chuuba not being their pretend girlfriend, or at the very least not unironically having a crush on or fall in love with her.

>>70068684
but the book content I'm most interested in has almost exclusively low quality offerings

>>70062794
You are supposed to have babies and grow country or something

>>70068577
Most of the people ITT arguing against it are literally making up scenarios and arguments in their own head, so of course they can't. It's literally
>Parasocial...bad!
>But what if it's just a healthy, small parasocial relationship?
>SHE'LL NEVER FUCK YOU, INCEL MANCHILD

>>70062794
Ignorance and a lack of self-awareness. Most online content creation relies on being parasocial to some extent. It's not limited to just streamers. It's why youtube even blew up in the first place and why vlogs dominated the meta for so long. Even big youtubers like Philly D invoke a sense of parasocial behaviour with schticks like "bringing the conversation to you" and "let me know what you think in the comments below"

>>70063392
>>70066789
>>70066830
>functionally iliterate monkeys are using fallacies on the level of pic related
and motherfuckers like these have (or will have, as they probably are underage) the right to vote...

My Oshi? My girlfriend/wife/daughter/sister
We're literally married and I have dinner with her family every Sunday.
Stop trying to take away my perfect life

>>70070456
Go ahead and explain what parasocial means then, champ.

>>70070568
No, I won't. Go suck your own dick and consider killing yourself.

>>70071213
Then I accept your concession.
And since we're using video game screenshots now...

Most streamer/Viewer relationships are parasocial to different degrees.
Being parasocial not inherently bad.
Being parasocial at the expense of irl social interaction and relationships is bad.
>t. some one who neglected their irl relationships

>>70062794
Setting aside the case of the reasonable range of reactions, it’s honestly just being another flavor of extreme parasocialism that focuses more on trying to appear caring for and accommodating the needs of the streamer while demonizing one’s “lesser” peers among fans.

>>70070456
something has to be done

>>70062794
only normalfags that we should've kept at the door thinks parasocialism is bad. it's what separates vtubing (and largely streaming in general) from traditional media.

Because parasocial relationships are full of perverse incentives, like paying money to your streamer for attention, or for streamers, to pay attention to toxic or terrible people if they are good sources of revenue.

The more successful you are as a streamer, the larger the group you need to exclude so your paying SU scribes feel like they're getting their money's worth.

>>70063392
It doesn't matter because you're too retarded and stuck in your opinion to actually consider what anyone else is saying OP. This entire thread was just your excuse to argue with people on the internet instead of promoting actual discussion.

>>70064889
>as a replacement for real relationships
what if you can't hold real relationships and would be completely isolated otherwise? wouldn't you argue it's better than nothing?

>>70064781
If that's parasocial, then all media is parasocial.

>>70064880
>Co-Dependency = Not Bad
there are so many "people" who disagree with that lmao

>>70072927
I have considered it and i've listened. And no one has brought a scintilla of an argument that hasn't involved playing the strawman or painting all parasocial relationships as being bad with a broad brush.
This includes a parasocial relationship that is as small as seeing them only as an entertainer. And i've been told that type of relationship is bad because....?

>>70073111
Not that the other anon is correct, but this is true. All media is parasocial.

>>70073049
This is a medium made by and for dysfunctional people, and somehow idiots don't get this.

>>70063392
Alcohol is objectively harmful. It's an addictive substance that causes organ failure. Some people enjoy it in moderation despite that, but that doesn't make it, in itself, any less harmful. A similar argument can be made about parasocial relationships.

>>70062794
Because it is easy bait. People's Grandma is parasocial with the weatherman. Men are parasocial with coaches and sports ball players. Parasocialisim is not some new thing or even strange. The same people who get mad at vtuber fans are the same autist who get upset about fans saying >we or buying jerseys with their favorite sports mans name on it.

>>70062794
>retard doesn't understand why retards being retarded makes them retards in the first place
please never change /vt/

>>70073628
>Alcohol is objectively harmful
So rubbing alcohol is bad?
Using it as a cooking ingredient is bad?
Drinking it once a week is to be put on the same level as someone drinking it for breakfast?
Pork can give you colon cancer if you eat too much of it. Does that mean we should now stop eating pork, including organic lean pork?

>>70073793
I've never seen someone flame the news lady for interacting with the weatherman.

>>70073886
*drinking it for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

>>70062794
You have to be parasocial to enjoy watching any streamer live. Especially vtubers who are incredibly boring 70% of their streams.

>>70073886
>they are calling out my false equivalency...
>oh, I know, I'll just throw in 4 more!

>>70073886
Are you incapable of understanding nuance?

>>70062794
It isn't, but there are plenty of unaware and mentally ill autists, that get too deep into that, the next minute you know they are throwing money at whores and defending them and coping that they aren't dumb whores, like Rushia, pink Kiki and hundreds of others.
Also this >>70063792
Find yourself a chuuba that actually cares, and don't shower her with money, just donate if you want. Someone like Shondo I guess, unless she is an ultimate grift machine.

>>70063792
This is a terrible idea. Streamers have incentives to make you feel like there's a connection. It's much better to come to terms with the fact that there won't be one and focus on what you find entertaining.

>>70062794
I wouldn't say "bad thing", but it's a high risk/low reward endeavor. You commit a lot of time and emotional investment to someone who doesn't care for you personally and whom you have almost no way of influencing. And if it's over you're left with nothing lasting apart from a bit of gained experience, unless you happen to form non-parasocial relationships with fellow fans.

>>70073904
It actually does happen but there is less of a path to interact with the News Lady.

>>70074366
Some people aren't just looking for entertainment, in fact I'd argue most people aren't. See >>70066213

Replacing in-person social life with virtual & parasocial one is perfectly valid way to live. Humanity is hung up on this due to past norms and stigmas but eventually we will grow out of those

>>70074600
Then why are you using entertainment to find companionship? That's not what it's for, and it directly opposes the purpose of the medium.

>>70074013
>>70074028
You're welcomed to prove me wrong

>>70074600
>>70074747(me)
I could understand using it as a shared interest to interact with fellow fans, but getting into vtubing to become friends with the vtuber is insane.

>>70073398
If you ever read a book and got really engaged, cared about the characters and felt actual emotions about them/felt actually sad about deaths/etc then you experienced a parasocial relationship in the way they were defined like 50 years before the first internet streamer. Ancient greeks probably were parasocial to the characters in their classic tragedies in this way. Dante was super parasocial. It's an ancient part of humanity that was invented the moment media was invented.

>>70075155
I doubt any of them would think that their personal feelings about the characters influence the characters themselves or the author. That's where we get this disconnect. People feeling attached to characters is normal, but assuming that attachment is mutual is absurd.

>>70063608
>A human being
What if you are parasocial to Neuro-sama? Some people are parasocial to AI chatbots.

>>70073628
You are mistaken. There is no objective/intrinsic value to alcohol without respect to its effects on people. Really, you are simply assuming that health effects in particular determine "objective" value while other potential benefits do not add "objective" value. But it may be that if you expand your set of values then the benefit of alcohol use outweighs the cost. This is the same consideration that should be given to VTubers. But again you are assuming some set of values related to parasocial relationships is "objective" while others are not, which is not justified.

>>70062794
Because there is no situation where it ends well.

>>70063792
>two way street
That makes it NOT parasocial anymore. Vtubers are already on the border of what it means, since parasocial used to mean cases of people who would think that Tom Cruise was their friends because they know everything about him, despite Tom Cruise never once seen or talked with said person.
Even the biggest vtubers, you can still talk to them via superchats, and the smaller ones definitely aren't considered parasocial.

>>70075665
The response was regarding consumption, since that's the usage that was mentioned. In hindsight, I should've specified. Nothing on its own is innately harmful outright. However, alcohol consumption, like seeking companionship from parasocial relationships, has far more downsides than benefits. We can agree that other uses of alcohol and forms of parasocial attachment can be beneficial, but that doesn't make their consumption healthy.

>>70062794
Being parasocial isn't entirely wrong or unhealthy, but you must know there's obviously a fine line of what you do can be seen as wrong and/or there are limits to it. Parasocialism isn't the same as being in love with them, being a unicorn or whatever, it can even go from the lowest of getting worried over them, think they know you (by username) or stuff like that to even having delusions of being able to maintain a friendship with them.
Issue is that's a slippery slope, you can easily go wrong into your own delusions and become parasocial to basically pretend is an actual relationship in your life, develop dependence on them and have traits (such as being an unicorn) that you only take advantage that you are a simple set of data going from pier to pier, that are purely borderline toxic to downright abusive if they were actually people you knew IRL. Which ends up in the extreme cases, which are often seen in Idol culture and sadly, our community as well, but there are cases over this with celebrities (see Ricardo López and Bjork's case), streamers (Amouranth's Estonian Stalker) and more.
I love my streamers, and I'm possibly parasocial to some, but I know the limits of it, and wish them nothing but happiness in their lives, in whatever form it is.

>>70063392
Being parasocial in and of itself isn't inherently a bad thing
Like alcohol some get their lives ruined from it and others can control themselves and use it responsibly
Parasocialism is the same in that; if it isn't making you miss work/school/social functions, you're not neglecting your overall mental and physical health, you're still doing all the tasks/chores/goals you need to, you're maintaining all your relationships, then there is no problem
If your life literally has no negatives from being parasocial there isn't a problem, end of story

But that's the thing, that's best case scenario we're talking
Worst case scenario you've ruined your social life or (potential)romantic relationships due to the amount of effort you've placed into streamers instead of real substantial bonds that will last longer than the lifespan of that character and have more personal meaning
Even worse worst case scenario you doxx/stalk/harass/murder the streamer, so being parasocial while not being bad for you is bad for the streamer and the other fans, which is still a case of parasocialism being bad

It's about empathy
Aside from the autists, sociopaths and maladjusted individuals, no one actually wants to see other regular human beings fail in life and if you're parasocial odds are you probably are failing in life in terms of fulfillment/purpose which is arguably the most important facet of life

>>70062794
>What parasocial means
Enjoying the perceived connection between two strangers: In this case, a viewer with a vtuber (and a vtuber with the formless mass known as chat).
>What the irony-obsessed millennials think parasocial means
Spending copious amounts of money on a vaguely-feminine anime avatar while they twirl their mustache and laugh at how easy it is to make money from idiots who dare to support them.

Literally every content creator is parasocial. Every single one.
Even the OC-makers on 4chan.
That's just the nature of entertainment.

>>70063100
>Because in the long run, it alienates yourself from society
Won't be missing that much then

>>70076896
Henry cute!

>>70076717
>seeking companionship from parasocial relationships
I think this is where people are confused about what parasocial is. Most posts here are equivocating between parasocial and delusional viewers. Parasocial does not imply delusional. One can engage in parasocial behavior with full awareness. It is completely possible consciously to choose parasocial relationship with VTubers(/streamers in general etc) over more traditional in-person social life for whatever reasons. It is not a risk or harm to spend time/money/energy on VTubers as part of that if one enjoys doing so for its own sake. And that's really what parasocial means. Of course, delusional viewers may be harmed if they develop desires or even expectations of some other reward by their expense of time/money/energy (chuuba will become their gf) because inevitably their desires will be frustrated.
But as for parasocial itself, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It is perfectly valid to prefer parasocial to mutual relationships, just as it is to prefer virtual/fiction to in-person/real, even if it looks strange to the majority. I believe one can live a perfectly happy life all the same

>>70062794
Backwards modern Western culture shit. They think
- Waifu products sold to men should contain cuck shit
-idol culture bad while celebrating idols from a company that mostly licences IP
- femininity and beauty bad and shits on it regularly
- against competition, but loves success
- thinks it's cringe to try hard and be good at something
- think it's bad to cater a product towards men especially lonely men


And you wonder why western corpos instantly die. Why VShojo business strat is the only one that works. The culture/mindset is incompatible

>>70077824
I suspected as much as well. There's clearly something lost in translation where people think parasocial = GFE streamer, when really that's just a high level of a parasocial relationship.
But good luck explaining that to people ITT because they are of the firm belief that it's bad no matter what because it's a buzzword that has completely lost it's original meaning. Much like how weeboo has totally lost it's meaning.

>>70062794
whats the definition we're using? the limits it can apply to?
because i was gonna say a bit, but, read the thread first, and basically everyone's shifting the definition and application of the word to fit their own argument, like always.
its just become another meaningless buzzword i guess, though not sure which side of the argument that helps.

regardless actually, i guess i'll just say a bit anyways. whether its parasocial or not by (your) definition, anytime i have seen someone get even remotely attached to a vtuber past the point of just seeing them as entertainment, the likelihood of unhealthy negative backlash inclines sharply. even for non lewd and GFE vtubers, but for sure for them, ive seen anons and people lose their minds over the most asinine of things, and throw away the streamer with vitriol or rage.
but why? well, because they thought of them, in some way, past just being content to consume, so had some expectation from them they felt was betrayed, so felt emotional pain from said betrayal.
sure, even if you just view them as content, they can still be retarded and make you no longer want to watch. but you wont feel emotionally hurt by it, because hey, sometimes it turns out something was just actually not that good.

the problem, to me personally, is something about how people often engage, or are regularly encouraged to engage, with vtubing regularly leads to an unhealthy relationship where the viewers expectations can too easily be smashed. the difference is, vtubing is a liveform content with direct interaction with the talent (or at least the perception of such, while a movie or book or something else, has a level of disconnect, and is also curated and modified to be more digestible before being handed out. a vtuber cant erase a typo or poorly worded comment or slip of the tongue, so the impact and ability for it TO impact is greater.

you can say its not unique or the majority or whatever you want, but that doesn't change the problem or its existence, it ignores it to brush it under the rug. people dont engage in it healthily, and everyone defends the unhealthy engagement. even for less extreme vtubers, the environment leads many to invest into the media too heavily, slowly ramping up how much they invest of their life into it.

to be fair, i think vtubing, intentionally or not, is simply exploiting a problem caused by other societal factors, not creating it, so im not actually sure how much the average vtuber themselves could change to avoid issues. those actively exploiting it though are scumbags but, i dont actually think most people disagree with that.

>>70076062
>and the smaller ones definitely aren't considered parasocial.
Honestly this is true. The "groomers" paying 2views for attention aren't parasocial and they aren't groomers either. In fact they're just being manipulated and groomed themselves more often than not (other than spacer lmao).

>>70062794
Ask finana

>>70062794
You haven't seen Perfect Blue have you?

I like it when the vtuber is very loving and caring of the fans but treat them all as a collective. If that even counts as parasocial. I don't know with the definitions anymore.

>>70062794
>make content
>care about quality
oops content creator suddenly parasocial when taking time so viewers are enjoying their content!!11

>>70062794
Why does everyone act like parasocialism only occurs with vtubers or female streamers or that it strictly occurs with opposite sexes. Every entertainer or streamer or whatever the fuck job that has internet presence have parasocial people. Taylor Swift gets other women that thinks she's their best friend. Those male streamers that say women have parasocial viewers are farming their own viewers by pretending to be their friend too. You niggas that post here everyday are parasocial to other anons here since you the only reason you post is to get (You)'s. You are literally parasocial for an internet image board. Everyone complaining of parasocialism on the Internet are hypocrites.

>>70062794
No one respects guys that want to get emotionally involved with a stripper. Vtubers are the digital form of that.
>but my oshi is special
You'd be amazed how many say that and end up regretting.

>>70064164
People be like omg anime girls bad and then have their entire week ruined because of Taylor Swift news. Domestic abuse goes up in cities when their sports team loses.

>>70077824
Can the viewer-entertainer relationship replace other forms of social interaction without devolving into disillusionment?

>>70086455
This is a vtuber board. Obviously, the perspective is going to be based on vtubers.

>>70062794
it'll only hurt you in the end, simple as.

And we haven't even talked about the issue of viewers feeling entitled to a parasocial relationship. It's one thing to be parasocial towards fictional characters, but being parasocial towards real, living people hurts both parties.

>>70086455
It's like a smoker justifying their habit with the existence of pollution.

>>70086300
That's literally parasocial.

>>70090660
It's the textbook definition yeah

because it is a bad thing you ugly fuck

>>70093059
k sis

>>70064805
based, make sure you tell her that and that your blood will be on her hands if it happens

>>70077842
This is why you don't have sex, and have to pretend random internet women you don't know likes you.

>>70062794
"parasocial" has become just another hollow buzzword terminally online losers use to insult each other. the concept of one-sided affection for celebrities or public figures has existed forever. I remember when every teenaged girl in north america was "parasocial" for the back street boys and nsync - worshipping them, writing them love letters, crying and having breakdowns when meeting them. you can find a thousand other examples across like this all types of entertainment. the only difference now is people online are miserable and like to shit on everything the people like, so they needed a name to shit on this age-old aspect of entertainment too.

>>70097157
>you can find a thousand other examples across like this all types of entertainment
*you can find a thousand other examples like this across all types of entertainment (I might be dyslexic)

>>70077842
Also, loli bad.

It's weirdly suspicious that every single winning formula is shitted on in some way.

>>70062794
Blind leading the blind. Parasocial stuff pops up in all kinds of media and they just don't realize it. It's also prevalent in politics, it's literally the "I'd wanna have a beer with him" appeal. Trump's fans are extremely parasocial seeing him like one of themselves like he could be their friend and buddy, their dude not part of the system etc, while Biden has absolutely none of that in comparison and people instead wanted a no-nonsense guy that takes the presidency seriously and actually gets shit done instead of empty emotional-appeal big talk.

>>70062794
Because the moment the internet gets taken away, you are left with nothing. you have based your life around the internet and have built nothing with your life.

>>70104022
When is the Internet getting taken away, again? If someone is years isolated already taking away his online friends is not gonna suddenly make him a socialite chad IRL who will instantly go get all the pussy. He will just have nothing instead. It's also say you almost cannot be truly alone anymore with the Internet because even the most isolated person can have a bunch of discord friends or friends in a game or something which is far more of a lifeline than watching any vtuber could give.

Vtubing is not even remotely the key to all this modern meta of people going some if not most of their lives not having many or any IRL friends - it runs deeper than that, they were very possibly already experiencing that before vtubers existed at all, and will continue to experience it regardless of if a vtuber gets a smartads condescending attitude thinking she is somehow helping him by calling him a loser and telling him to touch grass. That is just gonna sound like the guy's parents or something nagging him and he will just stop watching that chuuba. She will not have accomplished anything besides chip away at her own reputation and income by being an unfriendly bitch towards certain groups and pretending she is somehow a good or virtuous person for it. It's the hypocrisy in doing this that people see and cannot stand about it all, that someone whose career is staked on forming a one sided emotional bond online is telling the audience to not see her like that and chastising them for it. It's an ice cream shop that's far shaming any fat customers coming in and acting dignified for it. They literally would get shut down for doing that IRL in many places. But online they can run their mouths and be assholes and pretend they are sanctimonious for it. No, they fucking are not. They never will be.

>>70107631
mucho texto + minor spelling issue + wrong grammar
i win

>>70107834
Brainlet response is auto lose.

>>70062794
It's a delusion. You shouldn't encourage delusions.

Because deranged retards like this >>70063100
hate it.

The ugly truth is that some only don't like the idea of others in "parasocial relationships" because they don't want to face the idea that these people can exist. In the past these people would die quietly out of sight in small flats not having spoken to anyone except maybe the mailman or the local supermarket cashier for years, but now they're on comment sections, in chat, in forums, and it is impossible to ignore their existence. It breaks their illusion that the world is a happy bubbly place where everyone naturally has a great social life and meaningful human relationships.

>>70062794
because they recently learned the word and they need to feel virtuous

>>70063100
i'm already a g*mer anon it doesn;t really make things much worse in the long run

>>70111367
This does make a lot of sense. They can't comprehend some people really would want and need something like this and think it disturbing becsuse they cannot understand or relate. Which makes it all the more damning to hear it coming from a vtuber because that is like buying alcohol from someone who has never drunk it and they are just pretending to get what it's like to drink. They know they're frauds and want to try to push the blame for that off themselves and onto the viewers.

It is sort of like how religious people often seem unable to mentally comprehend that someone can simply, not be religious, because faith is so fundamental to their own lives that it's very disturbing for them to contemplate it not existing. So they shit all over nonreligious people as a default, and seem to fundamentally misunderstand them and project their own rationales into them even if they make no sense like "they're really satanists" or "they are just butthurt about something they think god did to them" or "they worship science instead" etc that all involve there being some kind of deity like form that's either there but denied, or substituting for their own. Failing that they assume they simply must be bad or crazy people somehow - like how people loudly complaining about 'parasocials' make their own flawed rrats as to why they exist at all and put the blame onto the others. They don't like to contemplate some people live lives truly alien to their own existence and it is the polar opposite sign of an open mind.

>>70111367
>>70118254
surprisingly insightful

>>70062794
The truth is that parasociality is neither good nor bad.
It's just a natural reaction, and it's up to us to responsibly interpret and respond to those feelings and impulses.

Parasocial feelings are nothing new to humanity. Any emotional connection you form with something or someone that is indirect in nature is parasocial.
If you were saddened by the death of a celebrity, you were being parasocial.
If the words of a politician inspired you, you were being parasocial.
If you had an imaginary friend, that was parasocial.
And yes, having any amount of personal or emotional investment in a streamer is parasocial.
The list of examples goes on and on and on, but the point is that humans are social creatures. We seek connection and emotional validation by nature.
However, because parasocial relationships are indirect, they can't completely fulfill our needs. When you are lacking that fulfillment in your life, when these parasocial feelings are the closest you get, you run the risk of slipping into unhealthy mindsets and behaviors as your brain grasps harder and harder for what it needs.
The shape of the modern world didn't introduce parasociality, it only magnified it. Today, most people who spend enough time online have made a parasocial connection to someone else at least once.

(You) have a duty to yourself, your mental wellness, and to the comfort of others to understand yourself, know your limits, and know when you've crossed a line.
You cannot prevent these feelings. You can only keep them in check.

>>70111367
>>70118254
Full agreement. Just replying to make these posts more visible

its bad chud

>>70111367
>>70118254
i at least get where you are coming from, even if i dont wholly agree.
but i think the real problem is trying to apply it /here/.
i dont think most /here/ calling parasocialism bad are the types you are talking about, they're probably no better off in terms of lacking in real connections than the parasocials they talk against. and because of that, its kinda the opposite, where they come to a different conclusion by understanding and experiencing the same thing, not the opposite thing.

it just feels like you're bringing up a demographic that is basically irrelevant to anyone who will see and argue either side of the point /here/.