/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>69183195
Personally I think owning the IP or being able to acquire it after x years should be industry standard.

>>69183195
They pulled in a bunch of actual good streamers who cared about vtubing itself as a medium rather than just wanting an excuse to stream and in need of a niche to attract people because they're too boring or talentless without one. In the same time frame, they lost three of the biggest detriments to their brand, resulting in a double whammy of improvement. That's the real reason why you've went from shitting on them in the past to appreciating them more now. The recent niggersanji darker-than-black shitshow simply highlights these changes.

>>69183195
I like what I've seen from Melody, though I haven't watched anyone else there besides Henya.

>>69183195
its gotten better now that a lot of the bad dramawhore "talent" left.

>>69183195
this model is so much cuter than the lemon abomination

>>69183195
>don't abuse your streamers
>let them actually do their thing and make you money
Wow, that was hard.

I too only like Henya out of all of their talents

>>69183562
The latter at some sort of cost for "traditional-style Vtuber waves," if that makes sense, is reasonable.
What literally every CEO is trying to prevent with current (presumed) arrangements is a new talent getting the company to take on all the risk in investing into the model, assets, branding, and advertising, then promptly fucking off somewhere.
If a veteran (3+ years) on good terms contractually wants to go their own way, I don't see a major problem with just selling it to them with a small price tag.

>>69184413
Why do I have the feeling you never watched any of them, including Henya?

>>69183562
It only works for VShoujo because they let in only vtubers with already established fanbases and don't do anything to actually cultivate new talents, so the costs for model+rigging+assets is recouped almost immediately.

>>69184517
I'm very happy Patra was able to do this, though it wasn't a small price tag from what I understand. She was probably one of the only ones from 774 that made enough to buy her model, but at least it shows they were willing to sell it as well.

>>69185025
This desu, it's not necessarily a bad thing but they operate more like the quieter talent agencies like Mythic and MSM than what we usually think of as a corpo. They're background support, they don't put up the initial investment. Only difference is the talents being more closely associated with each other.

>>69185025
That's why I added the alternative which was further explored by this anon
>>69184517

>>69183195
let's not forget that vshojo doesn't even let their talents say "retard", a bloodless and hopeful medical euphemism invented to suggest that idiots and morons are not incapable of further development, but just need some more time to reach their developmental goals.

>>69183195
i've watched Vshojo for a while now and besides the shitstorm drama that happend (desu i forgot what it even was about since i didn't give a shit about Vei or Silver other then their booba) The fact they allow their talents to keep full right of their IP name, model, etc should be the fucking norm... Also I personally like the fact they allow them to do whatever they want be it reaction streams to IRL or hand cam stuff and allow Mel to continue her side hustle is beyond based...

Also helps Gunrun is *almost* Yagoo tier CEO

>>69185427
They can say whatever they want as long as it doesn't break the platform TOS.
The reason Vei mentioned it specifically is because calling your fans retards technically breaks TOS and also harms the brand image and therefore the other girls and she just didn't want to deal with that.

>>69185025
>model+rigging+assets
It's expensive, but it's not that big a business expense. We're likely looking at around 10-20k considering the pedigree of the artists they hire.
The most valuable thing is definitely the IP.

>>69185025
It would work for holo and niji too because people are specifically joining them for the brand opportunities and the box. Small corpos are the only ones that would have a problem with it.

>>69185427
For what we have seen, and kinda backfired for the talents, is that VShojo often picks to not risk their already mudded reputation, and often suggesting to the talents to not be all free on this, is a thing Veibae understood. If she went and said retard freely, and even if it was only her, outside people (and those who have a problem with the word) might think this is reflected in everyone and everyone will think VShojo is the “ableism” org as an example. If you don’t think this might hold up, look at Phase, not everyone is like Pippa, but Pippa and her comments made such an uproar as that, most people that isn’t into Phase assumes everyone in that company is like that and why it’s often judged before they even watch them

>>69185427
>let's not forget that vshojo doesn't even let their talents say "retard"
How the fuck did you get that idea? Vei said retard multiple times per hour while she was still in Vshojo. Twitterfags have called her out many times for that. The talents can say what they want, they just choose not to.

>>69183562
I think after an x number of years, talents in corpos that owns their IP should have the option to buy it out.

>>69186228
>It would work for holo and niji
nah they would just be cyberlived at the first contract renewal

>>69186228
I think so as well too.
Culturally this is not typical in Japan, even with IRL talents, and I would bet companies in Japan do enjoy this position of power. It's convenient to be able to "take the talent's brand hostage", because it binds them. Thus even if a more competitive agency comes along, your talent will think twice about switching to the better company, and conversely you are not forced to make a more competitive contract.

>>69183195
buy an ad

>>69183195
Their management was not really the issue, it's always been the talents that has been the issue with the company image. I still haven't really watched Geega or Haruka because I just associate them with people like Vei and the dragon tranny that I don't remember the name of. Henya has been a great case of someone who likes vtuber culture and acts wholesome without needing to deal with Japanese company autism.

The fact that they haven't had any major fuckups recently, despite still having Froot, leads me to believe that Kson or someone else managed to convince Gunrun that having some management controlling, organizing and supporting the talents is a good thing.

If they pick up some of the soon to be graduating NijiEN talents and Froot graduates, then they probably wouldn't be V-Shitshow anymore.

>>69189631
That being said, from what I'm seeing in VShojo, most of them love VTuber culture, but have their own spin on it.
Even on a company level, I think the interpretation about, what their mission for VTuber culture is, is different:
- Hololive wants to bring immerse you into the fantasy realm of VTubers, also through media, games, etc.
- VShojo's mission is to bring VTubers into the real world, though conventions, their remote controlled screens, holding panels, IRL-travel streams, etc.

obviously it's not that black and white, but the explanation makes it simple to understand. In reality both companies are in a gray area, because they have aspects of the other as well.

>>69183195
>unmanaged whorepot
Explain.

>>69187914
The only people who've ever left holo willingly are sana who didn't like streaming (presumably), and coco who stopped getting the benefits of the brand because she was in a banishment room. More might be willing to if they could do it without losing their personas and years of work but I don't think it would be more than a couple of them, and they would be better off without anyone who isn't motivated to be there. Niji would lose more but that's on them for having shit management.

>>69183195
>Phase Invaders inspired by VShojo
Didn't one of the invaders lose the model she had before joining? Because that's the exact opposite of VShojo

>>69183195
no management is better than bad management
especially with already established talents that Vshojo grabs which are usually able to be self reliant

>>69183562
For companies structured like Hololive etc, an option to buy the rights to their character IP would be perfect.

Y'know the company invests in a new model for what's usually what, a one-year contract? So that's their expectation of recompense. After the first contract a buyout should be made possible.

>>69191410
Yes, after her contract expired too.

>>69189631
The bogus auditions and the Nuxx thing did make a bit of a dent in their reputation, but that's the only real fuckup I can remember

>>69186228
A lot of people make this dumb argument that people are going to join a corpo, get a free model, and bounce. But a corpo is supposed to help you out, make life easier for you, allow you do projects you can't alone, etc. If a corpo is doing their job, then you won't want to leave even if you lose nothing by doing so. Allowing talents to retain ownership over their IP if they leave is essentially a flex.

>>69186992
She did stop for a while, and tried a couple different euphemisms (like "rhubarb," which still got people upset because it was saying the same thing with a different word)

People think that Vei "wasn't allowed" to say retard because as soon as she left she went back to saying shit like that
In reality it was probably less of a corpo mandate and more of a consideration for how her actions reflect on the people associated with her.
It's the same reason why Melody wouldn't really collab much in the beginning, because she didn't want the other girls to be seen as "whores" like her.

>>69191131
They aren't under some seiso idoluru teetee gfe boot and can be normal people. As normal as any anime girl on the internet can be anyways = whore.
And management isn't constantly badgering them with perm autism, forcing garbage sponsors or brand deals, shutting down projects they don't want to invest in or bother with or tsk tsk tsk no swearing or horny = unmanaged
The company (Vshojo) works for the talent not the other way around. So, for instance, if Henya wanted to rent a LED billboard truck to stream off of and drive around Osaka screaming at people for Reese's cups as a solution to make the screaming stop, Vshojo would do their level best to work out the mechanics of that and make it happen.

>>69183195
its still a whorepot but they indeed do good support to the talents and give em enough freedom so that infinitely makes em better than the black company

>>69187914
People won't leave as long as they consider it beneficial to stay.
By all accounts Hololive seems to be a pretty good gig, so they really don't have to hold IP rights over the talents' heads.

>>69190706
It’s weird to me that people act like Froot is the Antichrist when she’s completely fine as a streamer and her drama is only /here/ and in certain twatter circles.
>If they pick up some of the soon to be graduating NijiEN talents
Yeah nah, they shouldn’t go near anything NijiEN with a 10 foot pole anytime soon.

>>69191927
So they get laid every day?

>>69192171
All vtubers get laid every day. I know because it's with me.

>>69189631
>I still haven't really watched Geega or Haruka because I just associate them with people like Vei and the dragon tranny that I don't remember the name of
Well neither of them are anything like Vei but both of them are best friends with Zen (who, really, you shouldn't have any problem with)

>>69192171
If you're Kson, yeah.

>>69191410
People speculate that she could've bought her IP back but ultimately decided to start from 0 to leave all problems behind
Plus Yuri's second model was made when she was already in Phase
And also Nano now considers vtubing as not her main job, although she might come back to regular streaming later

>>69183562
That's a good idea on paper, but idk why this won't just force waves to graduate with their own IPs immediately as soon as X years expire
Also would they be allowed to talk about their previous workplace or not?

>>69192584
>but idk why this won't just force waves to graduate with their own IPs immediately as soon as X years expire
Because the company you belong to is supposed to provide a service that benefits you so you'll want to stay there and continue to use them.

>>69183195
>It's an interesting way of doing business
It's how agencies work. Not vtuber 'talent agencies' but real life work agencies. They get you work and then take a cut from the work they get you, and in all other matters you remain your own free entity. Other companies like Hololive that get callend talent agencies are actually production companies.

>>69183195
Internet content creators have operated as indies by default. People are figuring out that you don't really need a billion dollar company to handle the essentials for online creators, including those happen to call themselves "vtubers".
Indies have been making MVs, getting sponsors, and doing fancy 3d stuff since the spread of YouTube and such. And while they often rely on other companies to handle much of that, they can do so without signing their rights away.
Idol companies and record labels get somewhat of a pass since they are dedicated to bankrolling exclusive IRL stuff for their IRL-dedicated talents. Nothing Cover really does, including the video games or 3d concerts, is out of reach for any online individual.

>>69184517
Still wouldn't happen. Imagine if Hololive lets Gura buy-out and she uses that freedom to return to 4chan days and draws a ton of controversy, that'll blow back on Cover. Imagine any other seiso brand lets a big talent buy-out and they immediately start doing porn. I mean just look at Kson even, and imagine her doing everything she's done but instead of Kson she got to continue being Kiryu Coco. I'm not even saying she did anything particularly bad, but I'm sure you can imagine how those who didn't like the new directions she took might've felt about Holo because of it.

>>69192764
So, once again, why wouldn't those vtubers go indie with their audience?
Merch/superchats cuts will always be better if you are indie
Even for something like Holo, will benefits of doing 3D concert once a year outweigh negative aspects of being in a corpo?

>>69194150
I mean they should be doing a LOT more than just a concert once a year. Day to day shit. Handling stuff that's tedious and you don't want to. It'd be like having a personal manager but with a shitload more resources behind them. It SHOULD be better than indie, and if it's not then you're using the power of keeping their identity as leverage to stop them from leaving.

>>69183195
>whorepot
Correct, it all came down to horny peepee poopoo the company, until Nyanners, Silvervale and Vei left, and then Henya straight up told them to stop being fucking horny dayo and VShojo improved drastically. Still not perfect but leagues better.

>>69183195
I used to shit on Vshojo too, but now I shit on Vshojo fans, because those faggots are beyond insufferable.

>>69194316
Indies can also hire managers, anon
And yes, leaving should be bad for both so they can come to agreement
Even if corpo is doing more than enough, if vtuber has power to just walk away with their audience, it makes not that much room for fair negotiations, don't you think?

>>69194739
Did you read either of the posts you replied to?

>>69194478
they less of a whorepot than they were before solely because of Henya, not because Vei, Silver and Nyan left.
>Verification not required.

>>69194150
Indies still need management unless they have literally no ambition and don't want to do anything more than just sit in their house alone and stream. Hololive provides management as well as unique sponsorship opportunities due to the popularity of their brand. If you leave Hololive you lose those opportunities, which generally results in making less money even though you keep a bigger cut of your income. The fact that they have an in-house studio is a great benefit as well but there is more than just that.

>>69194055
"Hey Cover did you know that this former liver of yours is doing porn?"

Cover: "They're no longer affiliated with us so this isn't of any concern to us."

>>69194478
they are less of a whorepot than they were before solely because of Henya, not because Vei, Silver and Nyan left.
>Verification not required.

>>69183195
I don't know shit about Vshojo but I really loved what Coco did back in the day and still respect her as Kson
What's her current position in the company?
As I said I don't know shit about Vshojo, what's her current status?

>>69188616
>It's convenient to be able to "take the talent's brand hostage", because it binds them.
I've been thinking about this. The idol culture thing of never speaking of or looking into an idol's past or future outside that specific character seems awfully convenient for the company in charge. When my oshi graduated, many people followed, but some fans were outright attacking other fans for daring to even look at the forbidden content. The corpo has its own volunteer army ready to stop their customers from straying!

>>69194150
It's not just about what's possible if you go indy but also it's convenience and quality. If you're indy you have to do everything yourself, and you don't have huge teams of managers, audio engineers, music producers, tech support and so on at your disposal for these things. It's a ton more work, and you're also without a paddle when it comes to channel growth and audience. If you're an indy and you take a month off you're going to take a heavy hit, but if you're in hololive you can do what you fucking like and the audience remains there. And if you do go indy and pay for managers, audio teams etc. you might end up worse off anyway.

I don't really care about them now that some of the biggest faggots and holohaters like nyanners and vei are gone.
Kind of sucks that people like froot are still in it but whatever.
Their fanbase is actually less tolerable than they are at this point since a lot of them are still anti-holo for zero fucking reason

>kurosanji is dead
>time to shill vshojo

>>69194939
You're a fucking retard if you think it would be that easy.

>>69194150
Talents generally don't leave hololive because it would make it a lot more difficult for them to work with Watame.

>>69195053
>>69195053
It's hard to tell what positions any of them have in Vshojo or how the organization of things work. I'm pretty sure Ironmouse and Melody have top dog positions from what I hear but it seems like you're only as involved in the nonstreaming aspects of the agency as you decide to be.
Kson is doing pretty well for herself regardless though, got into that Yakuza game and is living her best life.

>>69195115
Not really, at least if you are talking of those here or that clearly are people that broke containment, people just don't like the corpo aspect that much and tribalistic faggots from the other side, there's a good chunk of people here that watch some of the other vtubers and in a few room reviews of fans, there's merch from the the other companies. Where is the least overlap or at least not a lot are fans of, it's Phase

>>69195288
I mean Rushia essentially got a !NotRushia model and had a massive drama that hit the tabloids and that had essentially no effects on Hololive. The names are different but that's pretty much the same scenario you're describing

>>69195053
She's supposed to be in charge of their JP branch (which has no members beyond her and Henya part-time) and they have flown her around and put her on stage as the non-virtual face of the company at some cons.
Beyond that, she seems to be fine just doing her own thing.

>>69194877
>Indies still need management
Once again, that management can be hired directly by an indie
>If you leave Hololive you lose those opportunities
Not if you leave with your IP and solid fanbase

>>69195105
> If you're indy you have to do everything yourself, and you don't have huge teams of managers, audio engineers, music producers, tech support and so on at your disposal for these things.
More than often you don't need everybody all the time and can hire music producers etc only for projects

And btw Holo is literally THE only corpo in vtubing sphere that can maybe provide something worth staying after establishing a solid fanbase
Any low/mid sized corpos will be dead
And even in holo there were graduations cause of contracts

>>69195288
It's literally that easy anon
This shit happens with IRL idols all the time
>Idol retires
>Reemerges in JAV
>Idol company literally just ignores it or gives the "we're no longer affiliated with them" response.
>people move on

>>69185025
>and the box
is the box that important?

>>69195977
>Not if you leave with your IP and solid fanbase
The brand specifically is what big companies want to associate with, not just the character. Like if Gura left she would still get a lot of sponsorships but nothing as big as that aquarium and other shit she's in now.

>>69195977
>even in holo there were graduations cause of contracts
Graduation. Singular. And even then she had to join Vshojo because indy life wasn't cutting it.

>>69195115
vshojofags are seething about anything that is not vshojo and about anyone who is not in vshojo (yet they're obsessed on idea that some lig/holo/niji chuuba that they like (for now) will join). even holofags/nijifags arent that tribal
>Verification not required.

>>69192171
Oh, sweet summer child... I'd keep an eye out of Melody's offbrand streams. You can literally control her toys via donations.

>>69195634
Also all the huge Rushia drama happened just after Nazuna left Vshojo, and it didn't have any effect on VShojo.

>>69196504
(me)
obsessed with*

>>69195634
>she had a different name and a different model but that's the same as her being the same

>>69196504
>even holofags/nijifags arent that tribal
yea those guys would never /in/post

>>69196435
I know we hate males but cmon

>>69195479
>>69195949
Thanks bros, good to know she's going strong
>She's supposed to be in charge of their JP branch (which has no members beyond her and Henya part-time)
Wait, didn't Rushia join vshojo too soon after the whole MafuMafu fuck-up?
Is she gone or something?

>>69196941
for the record this board is retarded and thinks the talents run the company. they do not, except maybe melody who is a founder and likely has a lot of sway.

>>69196333
Do you think those opportunities outweigh indie life, be honest?
We should also consider what cut vtuber gets from said sponsorships
And once again, what about literally any other corpo but Holo
I guess Niji is still okay on JP side but in western market I dunno if even Vshojo worth it

>>69196941
She did as Nazuna, but it didn't last long... Kson and then Henya were the only other members who spoke Japanese at the time and she drifted away into her Mike persona. The rrat is that Kson was backing her until her menhara nature revealed itself, at which point she distanced herself. The graduation was a formality by the time it actually happened.

It's the Golden Age for Vshojo right now.

>>69196151
They don't do it in their specific branded idol costumes/designs while the company's music plays in the background. Idol companies also do not sell the rights to these things to their idols for the same reasons.

>>69196941
>Is she gone or something?
Yeah she left, she didn't really interact much with the other members due to the language barrier and eventually she just dropped her vshojo model and focused on her mikecat persona. Strangely enough she's been using the Nazuna model alot more recently for whatever reason, no clue why

>>69197260
Considering there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency, yes.

>>69197278
Kek so she wasn't able to keep her Mikeneko shenanigans in check, fucking pottery
A shame I couldn't see this shit happen live

>>69196504
/in/-posting is a time honored tradition anon. We were claiming a two view literal who earlier today.

>>69197108
Mel said she's handed in most of her management role, and that she doesn't want to do it again. Though I'm sure she has sway in decisions.

>>69197408
If nothing else, this proves the Vshojo is absolutely standing by their IP promise. Even for someone like her, though I doubt that they're happy she's still used the Vshojo brand name. (Did she drop that or is she still using it?)

>>69193409
I mean...they are quite literally Hololive Productions, HoloPro...so yeah, and my oshi is a holo btw, I just don't get why people call them a talent agency when they are a production company.

>>69197413
>Considering there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency, yes.
And why do you think that's how it is?
Also do you consider indies big if they are consistent 5 view or something? Cause LIG does exist
We are talking about hypothetical scenario where vtubers can keep their IP after X amount of years, remember

What always struck me as kind of odd when Vshojo gets criticized is that Melody rarely ever gets mentioned or referred to when people are discussing "Vwhorejo".
It gets to a point where and Kson get Mouse get brought up as examples of the whoredom that is western vtubing while ignoring that Melody is the only chuuba with over 500k followers that you can pay to shove a plug up her ass and give personalized cock ratings.

>>69196518
I'm aware of that and that wasn't my question. Read africanoid, read!

>>69195115
>a lot of them are still anti-holo for zero fucking reason
You're probably getting fooled by falseflaggers
9 times out of 10 if a VSJ fan is saying shit about Hololive (or another company) it's aimed specifically at the company and not the talents

Which shouldn't be terribly surprising given the large difference between how VShojo operates versus most other vtuber companies.

>>69197978
On this board whore doesn't mean whore it mans you have made a dick joke or did a cosplay with cleavage once.

>>69197978
It's because Melody is actually honest and likeable. I genuinely don't have a reason to hate Melody, I actually don't mind her at all. She's always been honest about what she is and does and doesn't behave disgusting with others around her if it's not appropriate or the other person won't like it in collabs. It helps that her non porn streams are entertaining.

>>69197978
Probably because she's so open about being the literal thing. Also her Twitch content is actually legit wholesome zatsu most of the time, she's a total cinnamon bun and hard to dislike.

>>69198262
did she ever do irl nsfw content? there's something about her that screams porn

>>69197795
It's weird how corpofags try to push the "no true indie" angle for stuff like Mythic so hard when the point of contention is whether the vtubers own themselves and have the freedom to do what they like, which Vshojo does respect.

>>69197725
She removed all mention of VShojo on her Twitch channel but her Twitter still says VShojo卒業, the best explanation for which I can find is that she's using it to keep getting tagged as VShojo in the search engine

>>69197790
Because their niche is idols, and idol companies are generally referred to as agencies. It's just part of the illusion.

>>69198428
>there's something about her that screams porn
Maybe it's all the porn she does

>>69198428
I actually don't know, maybe? I don't think Melody has ever been doxxed nor has she ever revealed her face to the internet like other Vshojo's simply because she's the one who understands what it is to be a vtuber the most. Her opsec is good.

>>69198428

Yes, and if you know the right path you can still find it.

>>69198829

>>69194055
Yeah this is the main reason. Doesn’t matter if they don’t own the property any more, it’ll always be associated with hololive cuz that’s where it started, it’s like child stars who grow up to become drug addicts but they’re still forever associated with their childhood roles, but worse. Like, imagine if miley cyrus did wrecking ball but she was still publically Hannah Montana in character when she did it.

>>69198848
Guide me anon.

>>69183195
If they didn't constantly talk about 'talent freedom', they'd be pretty chill. Too bad they mainly use IP ownership to talk shit on the other corporations.

>>69198829
When she first blew up I just heard that she used to do the exact same camgirl shit just without being an anime girl

>>69199192

No. You have to learn for yourself. Consume enough Mel content and it'll be obvious.

>>69199206
They don't though

>>69197795
Almost everyone that gets discussion in /lig/ is actually not an indie and is signed to some kind of agency. Going down the list in the OP, Filian is in Mythic, Anny is too, Shoto is signed to UTA, Rainhoe has an agency, Cotton is in MSM, Silver and Squ are also in Mythic, etc. Being in some kind of agency is a part of doing business, so I think it's a silly argument that Holos would just leave their agency only to join a smaller agency with less opportunities.

>>69191421
Vshojo has management, it's just proper celebrity management where they work for you and not the other way around

>>69199454

Read this >>69197790

>>69183195
holo has some whores on the stage too, it's nothing new

>>69199378
Nvm I jerked off to Lia

>>69199192
I just assume it people thinking "this is clearly her" but people aren't sure enough to actually post it somewhere. Because not once have I seen anyone actually hint beyond the "yeah she has stuff out there you just gotta look" then deflect when asked to elaborate, even places where there wouldn't be rules preventing a link.

>>69183562
>Personally I think owning the IP or being able to acquire it after x years should be industry standard.
>>69183195
>I can see that Phase Invaders may have been inspired by this model
And this is a great thing. Tribalfagging aside, their success means this model is proven to be viable, and this pressures other agencies to keep up to higher standards, or even open other agencies operating in similar way.
Even better - the fact that they are scooping up graduating talents from other agencies is actually the best thing about them. Because that's a signal to other big corpos - that they have to keep in mind that they can't just treat their talents like complete shit, because there is always a plan B for them. It makes the power imbalance between a big corpo and a talent a bit more narrower. The more agencies will work like that, the more options will there be, the better it will be for all the corpa vtubers

>>69200233
Not getting banned just to say "told ya!".
Watch enough Mel content and you'll know,

>>69199964
Then I spared her another weirdo.

>>69197575
>Earlier today
It was only like 2 hours ago lmao I hope she collabs again soon she was a lot of fun

>>69197408
There's a level of separation between Nazuna and Mikeneko, and she didn't start using Nazuna again until after the Mike shit dropped. It's part of why Nazuna exists in the first place. It is funny that she left VShojo and didn't remove VShojo from her Twitter name, she just added "graduated" to the end of it even though she still streams on it lmao

Watching her play halo right now, Henya is pretty terrible at games.

>>69199454
>big indies don't exist because I think they are not indies
Thanks for civil discussion, but I need to work on my project

>>69200960
If you want to redefine words to mean something other than what they actually mean you should probably state what the fuck you're talking about at the start of your argument.

>>69201195
>vtuber means pre-recorded content + 3D body

>>69201337
I mean in regards to indie. Independent means independent where I come from.

>>69201434
read this >>69198441
And even by your own definition, where someone like Shondo, Yuzu, Mina Aoyama or even Miori Celesta fall in?

I find them very hypocritical. They basically don't build talent. They simply gather talents that already have a large audience to do business. And those who already have a large number of viewers why do they need to share revenue with Vshoujo, they can easily hire their own managers and enjoy it all on their own. Therefore, Vshoujo's existence is redundant. And constantly comparing Vshoujo to Hololive or Phase connect is basically cloud chasing. The reason is very easy to understand, both Phase and Holo help build talent from scratch, among them are people who used to work as waiters, cleaning workers... and Phase and Holo spend money and time to training and investment, as well as letting current talent share viewers with new talent. They also spend tens of millions of dollars on advertising costs on different platforms each year to attract more viewers to their talents. As for Vshoujo, they won't share their audience with anyone who doesn't already have a large audience. They also refuse to spend much on advertising but always stick to the name vtuber agency like Holo to attract part of the viewers that Holo attracts through advertising. Holo and Phase or Idol En are real vtuber agencies. Vshoujo cannot be considered a Vtuber agency. Or even if you consider them a vtuber agency, it is definitely a completely different type than other vtuber agencies and it is not a suitable place for any talent to develop. Vshoujo is more like a place for developed talent to retire.

>>69202196
Yes, Vshojo is not traditional type of vtuber agency
And yes, that's okay
Closer to talent agency, I'd say

>>69202196
>They basically don't build talent.
why does that matter
>They simply gather talents that already have a large audience to do business.
yea that's how talent agencies work
>And those who already have a large number of viewers why do they need to share revenue with Vshoujo, they can easily hire their own managers and enjoy it all on their own
because that's not actually easy
>And constantly comparing Vshoujo to Hololive or Phase connect is basically cloud chasing.
they don't do that
>both Phase and Holo help build talent from scratch
that's nice but it's actually ok if some things are different than other things.

>>69202196
>I find them very hypocritical
I don't see any hypocrisy outlined in your post
>those who already have a large number of viewers why do they need to share revenue with Vshoujo, they can easily hire their own managers and enjoy it all on their own
VShojo's revenue is sourced pretty much identically to an independent manager or other talent agency
>they don't spend millions in ad campaigns, therefore they aren't a vtuber agency
????

>>69202582
Honestly, I don't like Vshoujo because they have too many scandals and I feel like they're a bit hypocritical. But I still want them to exist in a stable way. Because one day if my oshi retires from Hololive, she will need a suitable place for herself. Being an indi is not a bad idea, but for someone who is used to the atmosphere of a large group, working alone will be quite lonely.

>>69202196
>And those who already have a large number of viewers why do they need to share revenue with Vshoujo, they can easily hire their own managers and enjoy it all on their own
Vshojo only takes a less than 50% cut from merch and sponsors they get through Vshojo. They're also able to get merch and sponsors independently that Vshojo won't take a cut from.
GEEGA a 4view indie that joined last year explained her reasoning for joining in the first minute and a half of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYVk43uuTVM

>>69202196
Froot debuted under vshojo with zero previous presence retard

>>69202161
I said this in one of my first posts
>Indies still need management unless they have literally no ambition and don't want to do anything more than just sit in their house alone and stream.
The people you listed would fall into that category, they aren't pursuing huge sponsorship collabs, being used in marketing, doing cons, etc. And that's fine, don't seethe at me. I'm saying the kind of people who signed up for Hololive aren't like those people, they have ambition and want to do stuff, therefore they aren't going to just leave with their IP if they could, because Hololive provides what they want.

>>69203257
Vshojo's biggest scandals is that several girls said an annoying youtuber was an asshole because he ruined a police investigation into a swatter to make a dumb video

>>69200233
exhibit a >>69200566
"trust me just look harder"

>>69203534
>Considering there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency
I am glad we can at least agree that big indies exist
>I'm saying the kind of people who signed up for Hololive aren't like those people, they have ambition and want to do stuff,
Far from all even on EN only side
>And btw Holo is literally THE only corpo in vtubing sphere that can maybe provide something worth staying after establishing a solid fanbase
Can we address this btw?

>>69204071
Can you be more disingenuous? Holo is by far the biggest agency with the most opportunities. Not the only one. It's the best one for chuubas who want to be famous. Nobody else gets giant concerts like the one Pekora just had.

>>69203750
i feel like you're a bit like the fandead of Niji now. Vshoujo's drama with Nux is so obvious, there's no room for excuses. But I sympathize with you. If my oshi was involved in a similar incident, I would definitely protect her to the end too.

>>69204268
It was literally a criminal investigation into a nyanschizo who was swatting her, Nux fucked it up to make a video about how her is an epic hacker. You have to be a retard to take his side.

>>69204206
???
That's what I am saying tho? There is less reason to leave Holo than any other corpo
>Not the only one
Name 3 more

>>69191927
Now I actually want to see her do this

>>69204515
Why the fuck are you arguing with me then idiot

>>69191131
Whereas most companies seem to have comprehensive rules about what kinds of things a talent can do or say, as to follow unspoken general expectations for Vtubers, there are multiple Vshojo talents who are both extremely opinionated/vocal, and raunchy to the point of releasing official jerk-off instruction videos.
It's said that there are little to no restrictions on behavior at all, which is why I called it indieish. Even Phase passively or proactively wrangles members from time to time if they are about to make comments that hurt the atmosphere for the audience.
You can surely feel why I was iffy for a while, but I can now appreciate what they do with talents that can manage themselves in this regard, and the overall chattyness seems to have naturally decreased a bit (I don't think any of them talked about Niji on Xitter where a lot of indies are going on and on about it right now, when a lot of people really don't want to hear much more about it)
And, hey, in a sense, the loose style is just different types of chuuba for more people to enjoy, especially when it comes to the lewdtuber side. I get Henya, he gets Melody, everyone is net happier.

>>69204604
Oh boy, okay, if your brain refuses to cooperate, I'll explain
>And btw Holo is literally THE only corpo in vtubing sphere that can maybe provide something worth staying after establishing a solid fanbase
>Any low/mid sized corpos will be dead
What I meant by that is if we implement the "vtuber can leave with their IP after X amount of years" rule, only Holo can provide opportunities, where it's better to stay than leave and be indie

>>69204413
what are you talking about. If so, are most vtuber viewers on youtube and Moistcr1tikal and Mutahar retarded? Because it seems like they all agree with Nux.

>>69204886
This is your mind on Holodrone considering VShojo lets people leave and keep their stuff and people stay.

>>69204936
>If so, are most vtuber viewers on youtube and Moistcr1tikal and Mutahar retarded?
Well, yes. But jokes aside, they are at the very least completely misinformed. Nux never explained what exactly he fucked up, or told how he was asked to not post the video by multiple people. Nyan never explained that it was tied to a dox and swat incident until like a year after the incident when /vt/ and all dramafags had already made their narrative and dug in their heels about how Nux is a hero and Vshojo bad.

>>69196635
fitting that he's looking at a piece of paper, that's the only place Michael Cat has a different model from Rushia

>>69202582
This is the best way to think about them.
They're not a standard vtuber corp
They're a talent agency whose clients all just so happen to be vtubers

>>69205285

I dont know. You look so sus bro. PR of Vshoujo?

>>69205551
Did you just walk out of /pol/? That's not how you make an argument.

>>69183195
Henya being comfortable around them is a positive sign. If only she has more allies

>>69205761
Yep. Because of Henya, Vshoujo is now like a gray area. I watched Nyanner and saw that she seemed brighter than before, very energetic, happy and positive. Along with Silve's references to Mouse. I'm currently not sure what the bad elements are in Vshoujo. Very gray.

>>69183195
>the flavor of Vtubing they're aiming for
I won't consider this flavor because they went too hard with flesh content for braindead POGCHAMP twitchers for me to consider them vtubers

>>69197978
Because those people are clipfags. And you know what? I can’t even blame them, since even the official highlights channel focus on horny clips.

>>69205090
Vshojo is a weird case which started from a bunch of indies coming together and more of a talent management agency imo
But okay, I don't know enough about Vshojo
What about small/mid corpos tho? Especially where one member having way bigger fanbase than others Phase, Idol

>>69205761
>everyone thought Vshojo would corrupt Henya
>instead, Henya is purifying Vshojo

>>69204268
>the fandead of Niji

>>69204936
Mutahar literally runs a podcast with Nux, of course he's on Nux's side you fuckin' nerd

>>69183562
I have been thinking about this for a while.
It's not like you can sell it to some rando and then tell em to put another person behind it.
You might as well have some complicated system to have the VTubers get the rights some day.
If Marine were to be terminated tomorrow, Senchou's image would follow her till her death. No way of separating her from the character anymore.
Also, if people keep pushing for the massive bullshit that is a metaverse (it's inevitable tho...), wouldn't you like to be into that shit with your own personal trademark?, would make business easier and unlike IRL you can like, actually avoid getting physically harassed or mute retards if they get too active, not to mention they can't actually physically harm you unless we pull some movie bullshit.

>>69206794
The corpos job is to support the talent. Most talents aren't crazy fucking assholes who will file a 2 week notice the very second something goes even slightly wrong, so there's a bit of leeway. If a company does well by its talents, the talents will be inclined to stay even if they would keep their identity upon leaving. If they don't, there's nothing stopping the talent from walking. That's it. Simple as that. Most of VShojo has stayed year after year because VShojo is managing its talents well enough that they want to continue using its services. A small corpo would work the same way, but a small talent would also understand that they can't put on the big huge shows that Hololive can with only a small corpo behind them, and if they're small enough that they can't do that even with corpo backing then they certainly wouldn't be able to do it on their own.

Pretty much the only major case I've seen of a talent group that seems to be running fine but lost a talent for growing too big was VOMS. Everyone else in the group was a 2view, and it was only meant to be a small side thing for GYARI. Pikamee blowing up and becoming a massively popular 4view gave her much bigger dreams and ambitions that she knew she was now capable of, but her company (if it can even be called that) wasn't able to support those dreams. If she could keep being Pikamee even after leaving she'd have left a lot sooner which would have sucked for GYARI, sure, but not being able to keep Pikamee meant she spent a lot of time towards the end of her VOMS tenure just feeling down and unhappy because she knew she was capable of more and GYARI was either unable or unwilling to provide it. If VShojo wasn't there to catch her I'm sure this would have led to a lot of resentment down the line as well, but thankfully they seem to still be on good terms since she was able to leave and go elsewhere before that happened.

>>69205551
To be specific, Nyan told the story of when she was swatted, which happened while she was live doing a Cookie Run: Kingdom sponsor (she only streamed it once on October 9, 2021)
There was a portion of the stream where she made up some reason to leave and was gone for a while, because the cops were at her door and she had to explain the situation to them.

You'll notice that this incident happens right in the middle of the time period where the phishing emails were going out and Nux was talking to VShojo's cybersecurity guy about it.

I don't know if there's any actual evidence linking the phishing group to Nyan getting swatted but it's a pretty crazy coincidence otherwise.
At any rate, it's this event that put Nyan on edge so much which led to her outburst on Discord and the subsequent schism with Nux after he uploaded his video (which, again, he was told multiple times it would be better to wait).

>>69183195
Vshojo is a great company populated by terrible talent

>>69206271
The only members who have gone on camera IRL are Kson and only very recently Kuro and Matara
Nyan only had a couple of IRL streams under her belt before leaving

You virgins really need to try something different.

>>69183195

>>69208563
That doesn't really help your point. And you forgot hime who was a fairly known fleshtuber.

Its not strictly Vshojo admittedly, many twitch vtubers forgot most of their kayfabe and eventually go full flesh once they got more comfortable being on camera regularly.

>>69211068
>That doesn't really help your point.
That's 3 of 11 talents, two of whom only went on-cam this month
Hime has never been IRL

>>69183195
yeah

>>69211666
Didn't Matara do fleshstreams in her pre-Nina days too?

>>69196151
They usually change their name though

>>69216509
if we want to look at vtubers who were once fleshstreamers before they became vtubers than i dont think any corporations are clean.

>>69194939
There's already tons of Hololive porn out there.

>>69197413
>there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency
Want to know how I know that you only watch western indies?

>>69224853
jp indies just don't talk about stuff like that
you think ui doesn't have any corporate backing at all?

>>69224985
She doesn't belong to any corporation. There's no situation in which a corporation cuts ties with her and 'Shigure Ui' ceaces to exist.
If your argument is "w-well she hires CORPORATIONS to do work for her so she's corpo" then you're retarded.

>>69183562
>>69183195
tourists

>>69225051
ok?
same for western indies

>>69183979
>don't abuse your streamers
Did you forget all the Harry Potter drama?

>>69185025
This

>>69225148
It's only the same for western indies that are not big.
Remember that this is the statement that you're defending
>there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency
There are no big true indies in the west.

>>69206849
Yeah

>>69225265
You're not very bright anon

>>69225265
is this some conspiracy crackpot shit or do you honestly believe that no japanese equivalent of MSM/Mythic talent/*literally any streamer org* exists?

>>69183195
this explains why vshitshow and phasefags have been fanning the flames, they think they'll get subscribers out of this LMAO

>>69225335
How so?

>>69225348
>is this some conspiracy crackpot shit
The fucking irony. You're the one claiming that all big indies in japan secretly belong to a streamer org. You're the one who's supposed to prove that.

>>69185223
774 is on it's way out so selling IP only makes sense. It wasn't even the first time they did it.

>>69183195
If coco/kson is any example, having a bit of an overseer controlling your streaming is beneficial. There is something like too much doing the fuck you want that ends hurting your career.

Also Vshojo model only feeds on existing chuubas, and the option of being able to buy the ip after certain time has its own issues if applied to not big stablished names. Holo for example would be used to fast track into success then people would fuck off too much just because the talents when drunk of success will look at the split revenue and assume they can go sooo and keep way more. Then theres the fact that cover can reinvest so much money into things like the studio because they have IP security. Lets not talk about something like holoearth.

>>69183562
>owning IP after x years
Never going to happen.

>>69227760
But it would be cool though. What if Cover were to allow the talent to buy their IP out but the price is set to 5x the value (however they calculate that).

>>69185427
>Veifags
Aight you boys need to fight it with soda kek

>>69225051
>There's no situation in which a corporation cuts ties with her and 'Shigure Ui' ceaces to exist.
You know that this isn't standard procedure for normal talent agencies, right?

I think you're mixing up talent agencies with vtuber "agencies"

>>69194478
To be fair, I don't find them THAT horny, in comparison to, let's say, Scarle, not to mention other horny vtubers.
They are certainly full blown 18+, but saying they are horny is like saying Benny Hill show is softcore porn.

>>69183195
For as much as "retirement home for vtubers" gets memed on, VShojo's Indie++ model existing is a net benefit for the vtuber scenes as a whole.
It shouldn't be universal, of course. VShojo has its own pros and cons, a major con being that they don't invest in developing IPs and just hire established talents with existing fanbases, which big traditional agencies do. But that business model and the scouting-only approach checks traditional agencies wand ensures it will be difficult to mistreat star talents without consequences, since "going to vshojo" is an option.
And, of course, the talents there seem happy, so that's always a plus.

>>69228405
Obviously not. You're still claiming that Ui secretly belongs to an org and isn't actually indie.

>>69185223
What? What happened?

>>69229169
Well, no, I'm not the one claiming that (although it's unlikely she's gotten this far and become this big without acquiring any sort of management)

You're equivocating her being signed to an agency with being controlled by a corpo like Hololive. She doesn't have to forfeit her IP to be represented by a talent agency.

>>69229465
So you're claiming that she's secretly being represented by a talent agency then. You're still wrong, by the way.

>>69229508
Again, I'm not claiming that. I'm saying it's unlikely that she is operating wholly by herself. I don't know why you have such a stick up your ass about it. Getting representation is a completely normal part of growing in the entertainment industry.

>>69229779
Why do YOU have such a huge stick up your ass about someone saying that there are true big indies in Japan as opposed to the west?
What representation does Ui have that's actually completely secret?

>>69183195
I haven't seen any yab from their side since Silver and Vei left
They saved their reputation to the point of being seemingly a good place for graduated streamers

I see this as a complete win

>>69229828
Why does it matter to you if someone is a """true""" indie?
You know they're still indie even if they have a manager or agency, right?
I mean, do you have any idea how much work it is to, essentially, run your own business? People who have only a fraction of Ui's success seek out managers to take the load off, and you really expect her to have nothing of the sort?

>>69229963
I'm not the one who started arguing that there are no true big indies, so ask the retard who said that first, retard.
>You know they're still indie even if they have a manager or agency, right?
The point was that actually every single big indie belongs to something like Vshojo or Mythic, even though they don't.
>you really expect her to have nothing of the sort?
I never said that. I said she doesn't belong to any corporation or group. She is not affiliated with anyone and she has full control over who she works with. There are several other indies like her in Japan while you can't find anyone like that in the west which is where this retarded belief originates from.

>>69230137
>she has full control over who she works with
Again, you know that a normal talent agency doesn't restrict things like this, right?
That's no indication of whether or not she has representation.
>while you can't find anyone like that in the west
Snuffy, Yuzu, Tricky to name three off the top of my head

>>69230750
>That's no indication of whether or not she has representation.
What the fuck are you saying? If she has representation, there is indication of it. That's the whole fucking point.
>Snuffy, Yuzu, Tricky to name three off the top of my head
None of them are at the level of Ui or Sana, who you will claim are secretly part of streamer orgs to manage their content even though they're not.
Reminder, this is the claim you're defending:
>there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency

>>69231104
>If she has representation, there is indication of it.
Not necessarily. Most agencies are not marketing brands like vtuber companies. They work behind the scenes and only ever need to be known by others in the industry.
>None of them are at the level of Ui or Sana
OK, and? In the EN scene very few people are, much less if we limit to indies.
>to manage their content
Not what I'm saying. I'm convinced you do not know what an agency is for, and that your only frame of reference is Hololive (which does not function like a standard talent agency).
>there are basically no big true indies and everyone belongs to some kind of agency
This is not my claim and I do not believe in "true" indies. With or without a manager or agency, they are still independent.
If Ui has an agency, she's still indie. And it's extremely, extremely likely that she does have an agency or at least a manager, even if you can't see it. This isn't a heretical supposition, it's completely normal and expected.

>>69231104
>True indies
You keep saying yet I don't understand why you want a big vtuber without a manager or representation of some sort? They're still indies.

>>69231406
>In the EN scene very few people are, much less if we limit to indies.
Yeah this was already well established by the original claim that there are no big true indies said from the perspective of someone that only watches EN.
>Not what I'm saying.
Then what are you saying?
>your only frame of reference is Hololive
The fucking irony. I know exactly what I'm talking about while you're claiming that people who you know nothing about are secretly part of agencies and then you say that I'm the one with a limited frame of reference.
>This is not my claim and I do not believe in "true" indies.
Then why are you sperging out?
>With or without a manager or agency, they are still independent.
Yeah no shit. There's still a huge difference between someone managing their own brand independently vs belonging to an agency.
>If Ui has an agency, she's still indie.
But she doesn't.
>And it's extremely, extremely likely that she does have an agency
Where's the proof of this?
>or at least a manager
A manager is not an agency. Belonging to an agency is a give and take relationship where the agency gets publicity by having someone associated with them and the individual gets whatever benefits the agency provides.
A manager is nothing but a person tasked with work. Different managers don't offer unique benefits beyond being more efficient at their work than others.
>This isn't a heretical supposition, it's completely normal and expected.
The only reason why you're saying this is to claim that they can't make it without an agency.

>>69231497
I'm not the one that started talking about true indies. The truth is that there are people who can do live events without belonging to an agency while your EN indie is nothing but a Twitch streamer with a lot of followers despite being in the same situation.

>>69231851
>I know exactly what I'm talking about
You keep saying shit like Ui can't be part of an agency because she's in control of her content and who she associates with
Which has nothing to do with agencies. I keep saying it.
>There's still a huge difference between someone managing their own brand independently vs belonging to an agency.
Yeah, their personal workload. And that's about it.
>Where's the proof of this?
What part of "likely" do you not understand?
>to claim that they can't make it without an agency
I have not made anything even remotely close to such a claim.

>>69232173
>You keep saying shit like Ui can't be part of an agency because she's in control of her content and who she associates with
I didn't say that. I said she is not part of an agency, because she's not. Nothing stops her from joining one, but currently she is not part of any agency.
>Which has nothing to do with agencies.
Yes it does. She manages her own brand, nobody does it for her.
>What part of "likely" do you not understand?
What of "proof" do you not understand? She is not part of any agency.
>I have not made anything even remotely close to such a claim.
That's exactly what you're saying when you insist that she is part of an agency. You just cannot accept that someone can make it on their own without being part of an agency.

Since you're probably going to say I don't understand what an agency is, why don't you define it? Explain in great detail what an agency is and what their job is.

>>69183562
How about they are allowed to keep the channel but have to change their model, name and delete the old vods. That way they can keep most of their viewer base.

>>69232409
>when you insist that she is part of an agency
I'm not insisting it. All I have ever said is that it's unlikely for someone of her size to be entirely without support.
>You just cannot accept that someone can make it on their own without being part of an agency.
I never denied this.

>Explain in great detail what an agency is and what their job is.
They support a talent in a variety of backend tasks to take that burden off their shoulders, giving them more time and energy to afford to their craft. They do not control the talent in any way, as you have continuously insinuated.
And this is why I keep saying that it is not likely for someone Ui's size to be entirely without management, because the sheer amount of time she would have to spend doing every job required to run a business would be unworkable. Scheduling, PR, legal, finances, marketing, analytics, logistics, etc. Do you really think Ui is doing all of this on top of her streaming, singing, illustrating? Do you really?

>>69232409
NTA but
>Can make it on their own without an agency
They can but what are you arguing here? A talent agency is there just to read emails, reach out to sponsors, a middle man for brand collaborations, etc. They can choose not to use it but it's just more work for themselves. I don't understand what your point is here.

>>69183195
Too bad they are all uninspiring.

>>69225203
Same thing as chinks harassing Coco. You wouldn't blame Cover for the harassment itself and at least Vshojo didn't fuck up and give the antis mod status in her stream.

They saved Pika's smile, that alone earned my respect for them.

>>69233453
>All I have ever said is that it's unlikely for someone of her size to be entirely without support.
This is you insisting that she has to be part of an agency. You won't take "no she's not in an agency" for an answer.>>69233453
>I never denied this.
Except when you say that she absolutely has to be part of an agency.
>They do not control the talent in any way, as you have continuously insinuated.
They control what they want to be associated with them. An unseen manager does not have the same concerns which is what makes being part of a talent agency and having a manager different
>And this is why I keep saying that it is not likely for someone Ui's size to be entirely without management
Having a manager is not the same as being part of an agency.
>Scheduling, PR, legal, finances, marketing, analytics, logistics, etc.
She doesn't need to belong to an agency for these. A single person can handle most of this.
>Do you really think Ui is doing all of this on top of her streaming, singing, illustrating? Do you really?
I never claimed that, retard. I said she is not part of an agency.

>>69233469
>A talent agency is there just to read emails, reach out to sponsors, a middle man for brand collaborations, etc.
Exactly. To claim that she has to be part of an agency is to say that she can't have sponsors or brand collaborations without being in one.

>>69234349
>insisting that she has to be
>you say that she absolutely has to be
>>69234407
>To claim that she has to be part of an agency
You keep reading this despite it having never been said.

>>69234812
Despite you claiming that you're only saying that it's "likely" she is part of an agency, you won't accept anyone saying that she is not part of any agency.
This is you insisting that she has to be part of an agency.

>>69187147
Yeah, pretty much, while I like the idea that vtuber can buy herself out, the thing with holos, maybe they are talented, but it's the blue dorito that got them this far. With something like Hololive they didn't just pay for your model, they nursed you into a big vtuber, while vshojo buys your current medium size audience, helps you grow and also benefits from it too.
Two very different things imo

>>69234914
No, it's me repeatedly giving you a rational view of the situation that you can only obstinately respond with "nuh uh"

Even in that last post, you're downplaying the amount of work needed to a one-person show in this industry. For what reason? I can only assume it's because you literally don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and have some bizarre attachment to believing that Shigure Ui cannot possibly have anyone helping her.

>>69235073
>Shigure Ui cannot possibly have anyone helping her.
When did I claim this, retard? Why do you keep lying about what I believe?

>>69235184
>Why do you keep lying about what I believe?
Irony

>>69235425
I said several times that belonging to an agency and having a manager are not the same thing and you respond by saying "yeah and so it's EXTREMELY likely that she is part of an agency".
Ui hardly even does anything so I don't understand why you're this insistent that she absolutely has to be part of an agency and couldn't possibly do any background work on her own.

I absolutely love Holo. Without Holo, even Bau Bau wouldn't be a thing. Vshoujo will never share their viewers with any vtuber that only has a few dozen viewers. They don't help, they don't accept joining because of someone's talent. I even believe they can attack talents while they are still young to ensure their stable viewership. The proof of this is that Veibae defamed Shylily when she first started to become famous. And they always talk about freedom for vtubers but they never talk about the fact that Holo's current famous vtubers were mostly unknown before joining Hololive. They don't talk about the fact that Holo built their current Vtubers almost from scratch. Freedom for vtubers is basically no need for agencies, it will be an era where most talented people cannot be famous and only a lucky few can have a few thousand viewers. That will be the era where vshoujo will completely secure their power in the vtuber community. So Vshoujo is extremely hypocritical in my eyes. Henya joining vshoujo makes things more judgmental. But as long as they constantly talk about freedom for talent while never talking about development for talent, they remain hypocrites. The way I understand it, maybe Vshoujo wants to say that unpopular talents are having to work extremely hard part-time jobs just to maintain their hobbies. Such people either continue to be overshadowed by the big vtubers out there. Or join agencies and grow, then eventually abandon the agency that contributed to their success and pursue the freedom that Vshoujo talked about. It's like Vshoujo is trying to teach everyone to be assholes.