/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

And for the record this is for how things stand right now quantitatively. Not qualitatively. So I apologize in advance.

Yagoo donate to disaster relief
Riku buy new yacht with livers' money
probably why.

PAY
FOR
MY
YACHT

They don't actually care about their talents.

>>66053006
Its run by chinese
/thread

Wasn't there an interview where he literally describes himself as a "trend chaser" and that if VTubing fails, he'll just jump on whatever's next? The entire idea behind the company is for it to be disposable.

Yagoo has the blood and spirit of an entrepreneur because he lived that life before Hololive took off. Riku did not.

>>66053006
then maybe theyre not the worlds most valuable agency

Maximizing talent retention is not the same as maximizing for revenue

>>66054203
Riku is one of those rich psycho kid to rich psycho adult stories, hopefully he'll run it all to the ground with one bad trend investment.

>>66053006
Keeping huge cuts to yourself gets you both effects indeed

>>66053006
Black
Company

>>66053816
Yes, and in one of the quarterly meetings someone asked about talent retention and he made it clear he thought the company was completely responsible for a talent's success, which means that he thinks talents are completely replaceable

>>66053006
They treat their talents like cattle. They don't even let them keep their own YouTube awards.

>>66053006
>world's most valuable agency
In what way are they more valuable than Cover Corp?

One entire fucking gen is gone

>>66059202
Hard valuation they're over a billion, Cover's in the higher end of the millions.

>>66053006
Don't need retent talents if you just hire more instead

>>66053006
The reason they make the most money is BECAUSE they're so shit to their talents. Hire en masse, give zero support, take most of their profits, then cut them loose at the drop of a hat.

>>66059399
tents are expensive new talents sleep outside

>>66059358
Huh? Cover is at 169B while Anycolor is at 197B, not that much difference anymore.

>>66059399
But for how long will that work, what happens when fans lose trust in your company? People will stop showing up for your new shiny thing if that happens.

>>66053006
It's probably part of their business strategy. They hire a lot and see what (and who) sticks.

>>66059761
it doesn't. it's terrible for long term growth but their solution for when there's a dip is a new wave of talents for a quick hype injection.
unlike what >>66059776 thinks they don't care if they stick because in their eyes all you need to do is get some other sucker to be your new show pony.

>>66053006
Do they even want to retain them?

>>66053247
>>66058934
I don't really understand why people always try to paint this as bad.
It's honestly no different from pointing out that without the blue Dorito, fwmc were literal 2 views who graduated with like 1.5k watching.
Nina was a 2view who hung out with political tubers, mysta was a 2 view on the verge of bankruptcy and Pomu was a 3 view office wagie with a risk of cancer.

It was only thanks to getting in nijisanji that they ended up being able to go to better places. Nijisanji did "manifest their abilities" it brought literalwhos into the limelight. Vshojo certainly isn't interested in recruiting anyone outside of their orbiters and in order to be an orbiter you've gotta be a 4view.
Even once my oshi graduates I can't hate the fact that it introduced me to her.

>>66059950
Well, you see it a lot in normal jobs too. Why pay more to retain experienced talent when you can have them quit and pay 2x to replace them. Businesses aren't always rational.

>>66060321
It goes both ways.
The big hololive successes aren't just because of hololive. But they aren't just because of the talents either. Its both. Its both that the talent had the potential and skill to be a successful streamer, and that they had an agency that gave them a huge platform to thrive on.

>>66060768
I'll be quite honest with you anon. There is absolutely no difference between someone like Kiara and someone like Cheri from vrev.
Biboo is the same.

Shit even fauna doesn't have any particular talents that make her stand out from any indie or even Nijis like Elira or Vivi. The logo is what carries them and you can argue all you want about how they totally deserve thousands upon thousands of fans and that it wasnt just dumb luck but even if we were to pretend for a second that that is the case, it still doesn't change that the Brand is what allows/allowed them to flourish.
It doesn't change that a lot of us were introduced to our oshis because of the brand.

The brand is what will secure them a position in a better place

>>66061259
>it still doesn't change that the Brand is what allows/allowed them to flourish.
I don't think you read my post at all. Unless you genuinely can't tell the difference between someone like Pekora vs most of her colleagues. Do you think Pekora was given two blue doritos and everyone else just got one?

>>66053006
Talent consumption generates more revenue than talent retention.

>>66053006
You can't really fail at something if you don't even bother to try

>>66059304
Two, actually.

>>66053006
Doesn't matter, still the most valuable.

>>66061574
Sorry by "big hololive successes" I was thinking in en.
If we're talking about BIG successes then like sure you could argue that it was only because they were exceptionally talented in comparison to their colleagues but once again even these people who are exceptionally talented wouldn't have been able to showcase their talents without being a part of hololive.

It really is the brand that helped carry her to the success that she's found nowadays.

>>66059761
Fans don't care. The people discussing these things in online forums are hardcore fans. We all knew for a long time that Niji is a black company, but it takes years for information like this to hit the mainstream. People wishing death upon news channels and stereotyping them as scum and drama channels sure as fuck doesn't help the spread of information like this.

>>66062025
>but once again even these people who are exceptionally talented wouldn't have been able to showcase their talents without being a part of hololive.
Yes I'm glad you agree with me so I have no idea why you replied to me in the first place.

>>66062185
Honestly? I misread your original post as saying that you have to be something extraordinary to get into Holo in the first place.

>>66053552
>/thread his own post

>>66060321
>I don't really understand why people always try to paint this as bad.
???
I don't get what you're trying to argue for with those posts. They talked about how Anycolor is woefully mismanaged, to the detriment of the viewer AND the liver. Yet, you argue that, because there is SOMETHING positive somewhere among the business relationship involving the liver and Anycolor, this behaviour is to be excused as a good thing? Again, sorry if I misunderstand anything in your post, feel free to correct me if I talked about your points in what you believe to be a false context.
Yes, I agree that these talents would be nowhere near to as popular without Nijisanji. However, fact of the matter is that Nijisanji also takes a sizeable cut of their earnings and that, once they do eventually graduate, they do not retain even most of their viewership they had in Nijisanji. Not to mention all the permissions they now have to attain and the general back and forth with management. It is a business relationship after all. But this doesn't change the fact that, for you, me, the talents, basically everyone who isn't directly tied to Anycolors stock prices, the way Niji handles the talents so heavy handedly, even though they clearly do not lack the ability to change this as the agency with the highest evaluation, is objectively a bad thing. Because Riku is a trend chaser who does not give a single care for his talents other than how much he can milk them, viewers and talents alike will experience more graduations, losing most of the with the specific liver's character established stream culture, while also dealing with uncertainties for their favourite liver's future and always losing out on livestream experiences and events because a of general mismanagement within the company. Even as someone who only lurks this board once a month and stopped watching vtubers, I much prefer Hololive over Nijisanji due these aformentioned facts. It just sucks that the one chuuba I did watch from Cover graduated very early. Fuck you guys for getting lucky and not having to deal with the burnout from getting hit with three back to back graduations for your oshi and their respective replacements.
You know what? Nevermind what I just typed, I'm on board with you. Fuck these guys still enjoying this hobby, I hope all their oshis graduate from the toxic work culture so that I can pretend to feel some sort of Schadenfreude for a hobby I have lost the will to continue pursuing. Fuck these anons.

>>66064142
good for you, or sorry for what happened.

>>66064142
I'm trying to say that people always clown on riku for saying that nijisanji was responsible for making the vtubers who they are but I've never understood why anons pretend like that isn't the case and that without the brand they would have ever seen these people.
No matter how you look at it, he's right. Nijisanji gave them the success they needed. There are better places for the talents but those same talents wouldn't be able to get to those better places without nijisanji.

I don't disagree with the other things you've said but I'm just saying that without nijisanji hiring these people there's no way they ever would have gotten recognition. They would have been 2views and miserable

>>66064974
Isn't the main criticism that Nijisanji made their lives miserable?
If it was just the lack of help, Pomu would have lasted many more years in the company

>>66065530
Nijisanji didn't exactly make their lives miserable but being constantly beaten down by corporate autism from the Japanese didn't make them happy either. Nijisanji gave them a platform and introduced them to an audience they never would have had beforehand. Nijisanji allowed them to quit their jobs and introduced them to new friends and people.

There are definitely downsides to it and a lot of them unfortunately but without ever being in nijisanji in the first place pomu would be working at a dead end job where responsibilities were constantly pushed onto her because she was the only competent person there.
Nina would still be debating people about trump and Mysta would be homeless.

Even if you don't like Niji, it's true that they did a lot for the chuubas and helped people find their oshis because they took a chance on them

>>66053247
>Our chuubas are literally shit and their only value is being part of nijisanji
grim

>>66065530
imagine this

>you have a business of exploiting young impressionable kiddos.
>all you have to do is keep them happy and well feed, any profit beyond those expenses belongs to you.
>you give them just enough for a comfortable life despite them making you literal millions in profit over a few years.
>you make their life a living hell for no reason other than hubris.
>they leave

I can't figure out where why they failed, I just can't.

>>66066313
nah, this is not japanese you retard.
japanese especially is supposed to be extreme professional. two business partners can hate the living guts out of each other and still work it out. this doesn't happen at nijisanji, it never does.
you are just gaslighting your self grasping for straws because you are running out of arguments to defend that shitpile of a company.

>>66053006
>>66053247
>Babies 1st capitalist
Rich people normally don't get that way by being nice to their employees, look it up, look up complaints about Musk, Bezzos and Zukerberg.

Riku is your typical grifting genius he knows exactly how to exploit dumbass people just enough for him to get ahead but for them to fail. Anyone EN or even JP signing up for Anycolor should know what their in for they really can't complain after they graduate.

>>66061919
Do you tell yourself that when you get home from your job flipping burgers at McDonalds? Because thats basically how nijilivers are treated

>>66067322
Not defending the company at all. I'm just saying that literally without having a brand name attached to these people they never would have had success.
Pomu's PL was more successful than Nina's or Mysta's and even then she couldn't hit 1k regularly.

Pomu Rainpuff became one of the most donated members of nijisanji and her superchats exceeded that of council even. The chant she performed as a shitpost ended up becoming so popular that over a thousand people screamed it out loud live. She made enough money within half a year to quit her job. She's an incredible person with a great sense of humor and a personality that I came to adore.

If she'd never have joined NijiEn, I never would have found her, thousands of people only discovered her because she was a part of NijiEn. Same goes for Matara/Nina. Nina even had drama circulating around her as indie because shed made another 2view indie cry.
I'll look forward to seeing Pomu/NotPomu in vshojo where I think she'll be happy but I won't discount the fact that she never would have made it there if she never got to be Pomu.

>>66053816

>>66061259
It's not just brand. Cover has better means of production. Because of that, the quality of the end products are much better than indies. Just compare cover songs of holomems with their indie era covers.

>>66068425
I dont understand how they dont understand it. Pomu was much smaller before the joined nijien, and will leave much bigger than when she joined. this is the case for almost all niji talents, so yes this phrase>>66053247 is correct, because if they never joined nijisanji, their popularity would be much smaller. thats why you join an agency, to be more popular than you were as indie

>>66070619
Sure but even if you booked a full ass recording studio and producer and etc, at best you'd only get views on that song. The fact that these people who get hired in either Niji or Holo are able to thrive is largely because the brand attached to them allows them to thrive

>>66053006
Their strategy was never retention of talents. It always was getting as many hires as possible and sell them services.

>>66071339
>Studio
>Producer
You omited the most important factor, their streamers. I think if an indie constantly collabs with holomems or niji livers like illustrator mamas, that indie will go viral even without the brands.

>>66072227
It's possible but not likely. That's literally why you join a corporation like >>66071186 said. The entire point is to boost your numbers and find success. Nijisanji did that. Pomu will be leaving with an audience around 10x that which she joined with.

>>66060321
Don't get me wrong, company fans can do a lot to change their lives. The issue that people are having with Anycolor now, at least for their EN branch, is that they're leaning too hard on the business side of things and not nurturing some of their matured talents as much as they could be. They seem too willing to treat them as expendable when its not always the case for the entertainment industry.

>>66072705
There's a lot of shit that they did wrong but the post isn't saying
>We're a flawless company with no faults ever
It's a post saying
>We're saddened when the talents that we helped to prop up end up leaving
And nijisanji did help prop up every single person that joined and then left. The people who left for better pastures wouldn't be able to do so without an audience given to them by being in Niji. The brand name recognition helped them thrive and helped show the world how important they actually were.

>>66060321
It manifested their abilities to the point of them developing ambitions, then Nijisanji did nothing to fuel these ambitions because "Better is the enemy of good enough".

Nijisanji management, no matter if JP, EN or any other (now defunct because management gave a shit and that doesn't meet the bottom line, see ID) branch, has only one goal: Meet the bottom line. Keep the cash flow coming in.

Anything that would disrupt the cash flow (like giving their talents a bigger cut of the extremely important merchandise sales or actually organizing shit like 3D, like big concert events that aren't at US cons or SEAmonkey brown hand festivals) is something management actively hampers and harms.

People with ambitions can only be held back for so long until they either break and crumble or pursue other options.

The Nijisanji audience is part of what makes them break or leave. Because they put the company above the talent.

>>66068425
>>66071186
who is they? you are supposed to read, not make shit up. fucking autism, do I need to get my keychain out to keep you guys focused on what's in front of you? stop imagining, this shit isn't narnia

>>66073158
>And nijisanji did help prop up every single person that joined and then left. The people who left for better pastures wouldn't be able to do so without an audience given to them by being in Niji
used to believe that shit until Melissa and Akane graduated last year and basically revealed that the company held their music careers and projects back.

>>66073427
>Nijisanji management, no matter if JP, EN or any other (now defunct because management gave a shit and that doesn't meet the bottom line, see ID) branch, has only one goal: Meet the bottom line. Keep the cash flow coming in.
Getting rid of ID for underperforming ok. Making your EN cash positive talents leave??? What is the plan here mastermind?

>>66074979
3d is too expensive and covers don't make enough money, please understand

>>66074979
A Liver is an investment (model, rigging) and treated as such.
Nijisanji wants to recoup that investment and then make cash on top with the bare minimum required (new outfits) to keep the cash flow going. They do not want to develop their Livers in line with the actual ambitions of their Livers. They actively block these ambitions. They just want to have every Liver produce their steady cash flow while management works to shit out more Livers so the overall cashflow increases.

Creating break-out stars is the opposite of what they want, they want simple and steady low-effort income generation.

>>66073427
I don't disagree with that statement but again I'm not saying the company did nothing wrong. What I'm saying is that the people they hired were absolutely nobodies before Niji and it's only thanks to being in Niji that they will find success outside of Niji.
>>66074700
Melissa and Akane were nobodies beforehand too iirc. Like did Niji help them when it should have? No.
But it still did give them a bigger audience than what they had previously and showcased at least some of their talents to the world and to people who didn't know of them beforehand

>>66053006

>>66071339
>Niji or Holo
Stop putting them in the same sentence. At this point the gap in their EN management and talent could not be more clear. Phase and Vshojo are gaining on NijiEN popularity and brand power wise while HoloEN is just on another level.

>>66076142
This pretty much. There's plenty of companies out in the world like this - they have no interest in developing you and will only give you the bare minimum needed to perform your task, with nothing to lead you to greener pastures within that company. They will also likely offer you less than what you are actually worth once you are up to speed.

So you take the job, crash course yourself in the field for a year or two, and go get hired at a better company. You get your foot in the door and get the experience and skills and get out.

This is what Nijisanji is for Vtubers now. Get your personality some exposure, get good at the basics, then take it to somewhere where they actually want to put effort into you.

>>66083929
>This pretty much. There's plenty of companies out in the world like this - they have no interest in developing you and will only give you the bare minimum needed to perform your task, with nothing to lead you to greener pastures within that company. They will also likely offer you less than what you are actually worth once you are up to speed.

the thing about nijisanji is they don't even do that. that is why people leave.

>>66053006
Just keep hiring more talent

>>66053006
The solution is MORE WAVES MORE WAVES MORE WAVES

>>66061259
>Shit even fauna doesn't have any particular talents that make her stand out from any indie or even Nijis like Elira or Vivi.
Honestly streaming and communicating consistently could be considered a talent in this industry.

>>66089246
Quantity has a Quality on it's own right.

>>66094380
As long as you are not one of the quantities they are sending to your deaths