/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>56759438
Kronii should be higher

>>56759438
Kronii is on the male collaber faction clocuck

>holo vs holo
>>>/trash/

>>56759438
You can move Noel and Flare up to the memory hole tier soon.

How is Kronii not way higher
How is Kiara not higher

>>56759438
>Kronii
>collabed once
>trying to memory-hole it
>IRyS
>Lui
>Sakamata
>Male collaber faction
Fucking kek
Clocuck is taking overdose of copium

>>56759438
Kiara, IRyS, Mumei and Ina are homocollabers
And remove Fauna and Nerisa because you-know-why

kronii should be higher
marine streamed with males outside of homolive(ex: beat mario)
ina did the song with axel

>>56759885
sponsored to be in a con doesn't count. Is that even an actual vtuber doing vtubing or just a host who used a vtubing avatar specifically for the con?

>>56759885
>>56757127
It's for the same convention in Germany, Dokomi. That person is a MC. Gura and Ina are male collabers btw.

>>56759438
Kronii should literally be in the top row. Retard.

>>56759438
I will collab my male hand with your face schizo

>>56759438
Towa IS the male collab you fucking homo

>>56759438
I'd argue about the accuracy of the list if the concept itself wasn't so retarded.

>>56759438
Kronii and Bae should be one higher

Male collaber faction > everyone else easily

>>56759438
didn't marine and noel let the hypno-ojisan grope them and squirt his wasabi into their mouths?

>>56760001
Everyone collabed with males if you count professional collabs

>>56759438
Christ, /vt/. The vast majority of the married women in the world have male co-workers, does that make their husbands all cucks?

>>56760359
Those are okay.
Male vtubers aren't professionals

>>56760276
That was ok because he was a professional molester and real idols get molested every day on TV according to /vt/.

>>56760496
Yes. It's only a matter of time before a "coworker" makes a move on her. 70% infedility rate in this fucked up world.

>>56760515
beatMARIO uses a vtuber model as a joke he is a music producer

>>56759438
Seek Canadian healthcare ASAP.

>>56760276
It
is
okay
when
JP
does
it

>>56760496
I'm pretty sure most affairs are between coworkers, so most husbands are pretty much soon-to-be cucks, especially considering the absolute state of modern relationships.

>>56759438
Kronii collabed once?
she fucking took a fat shit directly on her fans and forced vesper's shit too down their throats while she was at it
If you are going to put IRyS and Lui so high at least put Kronii at the top of everyone

>>56760276
It's JP, so it's unironically okay.

Kiara is literally homosexual and so positioning her anywhere on the chart is deliberately misleading.

You guys are mentally ill

>>56759438
>Kronii that fucking low
I WONDER who is behind this thread

>>56761035
We watch vtubers.

Bump Ina up 2 spots

>>56759438
>That list
Your not even a threadreader where the fuck did you come from

>>56760496
>dont worry, honey, he's just my 'work husband'

>>56759438
>Marine

>>56759885
kiara castrated it on that stream tho

>>56760496
You don't get to pick your coworkers. If my girlfriend was willingly picking to work with men over women, I'd have an issue.

>>56760276
>>56760878
Don't forget it was literally Pekora bringing sankisei and Flare was weirdly unavailable on that day

>>56761881
furea is a smart girl

>>56759438
Unsure how to feel when a schizo thread forgets my oshi...

>>56761035
Hello, first day on the board?

>>56759438
Where the hell do you get the idea that Lui is a male collaber from? She only did one "male collab" as far as I'm aware. It wasn't even really a male collab, though. It was a legitimate female playing the character of a femboy.

The only thing you can argue is the upcoming tournament. I'm holding off judgement on that until I see how it's organized. If they purely stick to their own respective calls (females and males), I won't have any issue with it. I want to see the men get their shit kicked in.

Shiori: wants to collab with males

>>56759438
>Who do you think will fall next?
Shiori

>>56762209
the stars will brutally sodomize the holos

>>56759438
Your oshi will never fuck you

>>56761035
Anon this is 4chan

>>56759438
>Marine, Shiori that low
Rumao rumao roru roru.

Shiori will never collab with males

>>56762309
dyrbi?

>>56759885
That catboy is more feminine than most of your oshis and you still have the guts to call this bs you faggots

>>56762605
she might collab with her twitch transbian friends

>>56762209
Don't bother with Catalog shitters Purple Luitomo. It's not worth it

>>56763124
How in the absolute fuck did you figure out it was me in a completely random thread?
Also, why are you out here in that case?

>>56759438
Imagine being this obsessed

>>56759438
It is extremely ironic how so many people on this board shit on the fujo sisters, only to end up acting exactly like them. Literally two sides of the same coin.

>>56759438
This is the 6th "Male collabs in Holo" thread within less than 24 hours
Tell me sisters, which Niji is graduating this time?

>>56760075
I agree about the sponsored dokomi stream not being a problem for gachikoi. What I don’t get is why suddenly a gaming competition with no voice chat is suddenly a problem?
I swear everyone is a shitposter, there is no way actual gachikoi are mad over this, right?

>>56763273
i consider sisters who don't want their oshi frolicking on stream with my oshi my allies

>>56761362
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE ZUN SAN GET OUT OF THERE, ITS DANGEROUS YOURE GONNA GET EATEN BY THAT HAG

>>56759438
Shiori will be up there with Ollie

>>56759438
Kronii collab with males way more than Reine tho, are you high or something?

>>56759438
Someone from EN for sure.

>>56764046
that's not zun retard

>>56759641
What's going to happen? I barely watch them.

>>56759438
Wow who is behind this thread, I wonder why Kronii is so fucking low and Bae also.

Oh wait I know! YOU DON'T WATCH ANY OF THEM OR AT LEAST KNOW THE FUCKING INFO

KRONII HAS COLLABED SO MANY FUCKING TIMES WITH MALES WITH MORI
OH MY FUCKING GOD 25K CCV HOW CAN YOU EVEN MISS THOSE STREAMS

YOU KNOW WHO MADE THIS THREAD?

A NIJIFAGGOT

>>56759438
I'm going to be working on Watame for the next few months. Who are you guys going for?

>>56759438
>Okayu anti-male
>this cover exists from 11 months ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6tIq2No038

>>56759438
The absolute state of a catalogreader

>>56759438
Kaela
"What do you think abt stars en members"
>Idk them.
*Hakka pops in chat a bit cause he uses indon then proceed called her penguin*
>Delete the comment & banned him.
BAASED BASED BASED

>>56759438
>Flare, Noel and Marine have never collabed with males
What the fuck? I could have sworn they all did at one point.

>>56759438
prove to me you arr a hololive fan and not an anti shill

>>56759438
Reine and Anya needs to be lower they were forced to do the collab worm thingy

noel and flare:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4Dqikza8AAtUfP?format=png&name=large

>>56760878
>>56760996
You fucks are weak, commit to the dogma or leave

>>56774000
Anon, every single member of Hololive has "collabed with maled" if you include promotional streams. Evenr Rushia when she was still in Hololive. These EOP retards are just not aware of tv appearances and shit.
Even Gura has "interacted with males" if you use these stupid standards.

>>56759438
Think Marine before the end of the year

>>56759438
I don't think you've ever watched a stream in your life.

>>56759438
why is Kronii in that tier? Did you make this just for propoganda?

>>56759438
>for now
You niggers are never satisfied, are you?

>>56760276
Qrd? I was aware of the hypnosis but not the groping. What exactly did he do?

>>56759438
There's no such thing as leeching males. Collabing with males basically destroying your career.

>>56759438
how fucking retarded are you? IRyS in the male collaber group and Kronii low on the list? lmfao

>>56759438
Wasn't Marine on a radio show with Sugita before?

>>56775736
basically means*

Also Kiara:
https://www.youtube.com/live/dCAn8Pga6PQ?feature=share

>>56775736
You must be new to this hobby.

>>56759438
>male collabers
>suisei, azki, fbk, korone, mori, sora, moona
Wtf I love male collabers

>>56776267
So you mean collabing with holostars or tempus = leeching them? lmao males are virus in the vtubing world.

>>56776537
When holo were a bunch of whos in vtubing 5 years ago they were resorted to leech from male nijisanji vtubers who believe or not were actually more popular at the time.

>>56776978
delusional nijinig

>>56777047
newfag

>>56777177
nijinig cope

>>56776537
Please look up numbers for holos and the most popular niji males from 2018-2019 before embarrassing yourself any further. I'm not talking about the recent past, as should have been obvious.

>>56759438
I don't care for the male shit and won't watch it.
But 90% of the holos that do it, I like otherwise.
If Matsuri or La+ are singing, I'm showing up.
I don't give a shit if they play APEX with males.

>>56777360
Most retards probably don’t think Hololive existed before Gura.

>>56777432
And FBK is a fucking saint and I won't hear otherwise.

Can't wait until FWMC collabs with males.

>>56777360
Dumbass retard. Those who collabed with niji males 5 years ago, literally didn't get even a single clout from them, they didn't became popular because of those nijimales collabs, so they didn't leech them lmao. Every single one of them literally became more popular after they stopped collabing or associating with those nijimales, like Miko with her N-word moment, Aqua with her Azur Lane collab, Subaru with her dancing duck meme etc. No thanks to those niji males by the way, delusional nijinig.

>>56759438
Fuwamoco

>>56763571
>why suddenly a gaming competition with no voice chat is suddenly a problem?
Because shitposters are getting really antsy, and want another LE EBIN FINAL YAB from hololive.

>>56761035
That's an insult to the mentally ill.

As someone who thinks complaining about male collabs is stupid. I like threads like this, because it helps to illustrate how stupid it is. Because where do you draw the line?

>>56778137
If she replies to a comment from another male, even a viewer, that means she's cucking me in that moment

This is still funny to me.
https://youtu.be/9D1gd0sTpRA

>>56777666

>>56759438
Anon you forgot robocco.......................

>>56778534
no need to bring my cute oshi in to any catalog drama.

This is pure coping not collabing with men doesn't mean any of them dont play or talk off stream with guys they can perfectly be good friends and i dont even mean only holostars.

Everything on stream is heavily scripted and doesn't reflect their relationships off stream.

If you dont care about their offline life and only how they stream ok but theres a really high chance every single one of them have several male vtubers and nonvtubers friends on dm so all this jealousy is pointless.

>>56760033
so just keep moving the goal post and there's no problem, right?

>>56760276
Did he really grope them? What exactly happened?

>>56760001
>>56759719
>>56759706
>>56759521
>>56759492
She only did a solo collab once. Every other homo collab was because Mori dragged her into it.
How is Mori not in the Red Tier?

>>56780578
>very other homo collab was because Mori dragged her into it.
cope. A 'no' is just two letters.

>>56778677
Not only on DM anon. Even in person in real life. They only mention female friends to not create drama but truth is a lot of their stories if not made up could be with a guy. Unicorns just dont want them collabing with guys on stream they don't care if the actress have a boyfriend or even husband irl.

They don't care if they are paying for example Kanata's boyfriend condoms as long she doesnt collab with males VTubers thats ok.

>>56759438
>korone that high
kys

>>56782679
Kronii's a doormat and incapable of saying no to a collab.
Mori's been dragging her out doing random shit in Japan offline.
She's that bad an influence on Kronii.

>>56782757
> they don't care if the actress have a boyfriend or even husband irl.
Not true at all. The real unicorns know there’s no distinction between the talent and the character since there’s no character and they aren’t voice actresses. They are real people using an anime avatar instead of showing their flesh.
Show me any real gachikoi or unicorn telling the talent to get a boyfriend and shit like that. They don’t because they care. And when normalfags tell the talents to get married you can see every single unicorn and gachi just remaining silent.

>>56759438
down syndrome

>>56775306
So true sis!

>>56782909
You know Vesper is coming back soon, right? What will be your next cope when they collab again and this time without Mori?

>>56783083
>The real unicorns know there’s no distinction between the talent and the character.
This is not a fact its called coping. If they WANT to belive that then yes they are free to do so even the talents say you can imagine whatever you want. But because Unicorns are 100% sure in their heads thats is a fact doesnt really make it true.

Reality is you dont know any of the talents offline life. What they show in their VTuber character and even in their real face profiles its just what they want to show to the world. As the say goes "Never meet your heroes"

Remember they work for a corporation. They have managers and producers who help them make bits and other type of content they have admitted that themselfs. So yes they all are offical actresses.

Yes i would belive the "real person" on some small indies people who arent under the rules and expectations from managers and producers. But on the biggest corp rn? Thats just a wishfull thought. Every team have a team behind it and its always monitored.

>>56760496
>el no sabe

I honestly can't get mas at girls like Sora or even Suisei.
Even if they clean with a male, it would be extremely clean, no flirting of anything like that.

>>56759438
>>56780578
kill yourself, you clock cuck apologist faggot
and take your boring oshi with you

>>56782773
It's not my fault she collabed with 3 other dudes for like 30 hours of streaming in a row.
She went from 0 to having one of the highest male collabing totals of the whole year.

>>56764046
If that was Zun he would have a beer in hand.

>>56759438
>Wake up every day feeling like shit
>See stuff like this posted
>Be happy the rest of the day knowing there are people out there that are more schizo and retarded than me
Thanks OP

>>56783877
>vesper is coming back
Lmao, he doesn’t know

>>56784017
The unicorn-friendly HoloJP are meant to live up to the idol standard and what of the most important thing to please idol fans for an idol is to stay single while you are in activities.
I'm not the only saying it, other fans and even some holomems think like that. Firstly if an idol has a boyfriend she wouldn't be able to work as much as she does now, some holos like Marine and Pekora confirmed they will stay single until they graduate to give the best they can instead of juggling between idol life and love life.
Then for an idol being single is the proof their fans are important enough so they don't need another man in their life and also a symbol of their fidelity towards their fans. And of course it's something an idol should do and they don't have to question it, Kanata is the representative of that philosophy in Hololive. Obviously nobody wants the oshi you probably gachikoi to be with another man.
And all of that aren't just the "character", most fans also care about the roommate stuff especially in Japan where most knows about their oshi past life. Avoiding pl discussion is just a western thing, a lot of gachikoi/unicorns jumped off Rushia's boat after it was becoming clear she had a liaison with mfmf and way before the yab last year.

>>56783877
>when they collab again and this time without Mori
Now this is the real cope.
Kronii has completely dropped all contact with him post his menhera arc.
Expecting them to still collab outside of being dragged into it by someone else like mori is some real desperate wishful thinking.

>>56759438

>>56784272
>>56760515
kys mongrel.

>>56785919
Wtf are these gooks saying
I don't speak monkey

>>56760496
People actually consider fathers who have daughters chucks since they raise a woman to give away to another person
Unicorns are just part of a larger retard group.

>>56786002
>4chin is so dumb
That's it

>>56759438
Kaela collabed with males for a LoL stream.

>>56782909
do krocucks really

>>56786233
Based

>>56775817
she also has a father

>>56786002
They are saying the list is dogshit basically. Though I don't understand what they mean with コーン I think it's unicorn but I'm not sure.
"コーンは一番下だけ推せばいいなござるも駄目たどは思うけど"

>>56759438
>He doesn't remember the time that Watame collabed with Roberu on twitter (now X).

Marine occasionally collabs with men but she also does a lot to smooth it over with her fans
I dont know why instead of just being nice to their chat and winning them over, so many choose to be combative and hateful of their own fans, girlboss brainrot bullshit

>>56760496
Also, guaranteed most of these girls have worked with males in holo behind the scenes, be in managers, lawyers, etc. They probably have male friends irl too. The only way for a unicorn to ever truly get what he wants would be to kidnap a woman and lock her in his basement.

>>56786002
ignore these faggots
>>56786233
>>56786644
most of their comments are just stuff like "move lui down she's good" "old Flare is scary looking" "Kanata level and below are good" "only the bottom row are worth oshi-ing"

>>56759438
shiori and nerissa will fall to male collabs within 6 months, or even 3 months. they look like, and are sluts.
fuwamoco will fail to get views later in their first year, and will resort to male collabs for clicks.
>kronii
>collabed with males once
seeth, you clocuck, it should be higher than that.

>>56787021
>>56774443
Can you stop being a fucking retard? She literally only interviews with 40yo+ voice actors, game developper, music producer with Fubuki on her radio. The closest she had to a male collab is that collab with beatMARIO in 2021 and the hypno ojisan Pekora brought.

>>56787822
pay for a membership nigger

>>56787232
Unicorns originally didn't even care about these group collabs or radio/TV interviews. Its something new and notably western.

>>56760696
>making up numbers
Do number fag unicorns really

>>56787822
You can't count low-contact impersonal collabs with males for other girls but not do the same for yours.
If simply being in the same ad campaign as a male makes a girl a whore, then accept your girl is a whore, otherwise stop holding that impossible standard.

>>56787991
I don't have her membership because I don't watch her that much but I don't think she would collab with a male behind a paywall. Anyway spoonfeed me instead

>>56760496
If you let your wife work it's definitely an indicator that you are a cuck

>>56787272
I don't know why you decided to remove Clhoe from the sentence leaving only Lui and the fact the dude clearly said she is too high on the list, implying it's dogshit. "Only the bottom row are worth oshing" is also incorrect since it's, "I think the bottom row is the only worth oshing for unicorns".
Also, what did they mean by this?
"ねねち解毒してて草"

>>56788130
I don't care about the holizontal collab and I don't think the holos participing are whores.

>>56788510
I think it's about her not having her chinese outfit anymore

Do you not have anything better to do

>>56786644
>"コーンは一番下だけ推せばいいなござるも駄目たどは思うけど"
"unicorns should just have the ones at the bottom as their oshi. Iroha is no good though".
コーン = ユニコーン = unicorn

>>56789040
Why do you keep translating for EOPs it's not like they care about JP vtubing anyway.

>>56785585
Even if some don't share that pov they sure know at least don't admit to have a BF on stream and keep all romantic life matters confidential that's the only thing they seem to come halfway with unicorns and that's understandable. Parasocial or not that would make things a bit awkward if they try to act cute and stuff. But outside their job no one not even their agency have a right to meddle in their lives. Even cover made an official statement about it. Vtubing is fun but having a parasocial fanbase is both a blessing and a curse. The job basically comes with an abusive boyfriend and you can't do anything about it.

I know there's a lot of men who can't handle jealousy right for different reason but thats not any of the girls fault. Just think of this as an adult (if you are idk). If you had a real gf irl and you start acting all obbsesive and controlling by pure paranoia she will always look to cheat on you would that make her get attached to you or push her away?

As a person would you feel happy to be in a relationship with someone so mentally draining? Jokes aside on menheras in anime would you irl be happy to be with a girl who take away all your freedom bc she doesnt belive in you at all?

>>56760496
>he doesn't know
real life marriages are doomed. you're supposed to know by now.

>>56789192
I did it on a whim. You're right though.

>>56759438
so many wrongs in your list, you don't watch them do you faggot.

>>56789194
they arent just hanging out with random normal dudes. if a girl says they're going to spend time specifically with a group of dudes who make money off flirting with women and you dont find it questionable you're just a retard

>>56759438
Give me a solid reason to constantly bitch,moan, and berate vtubers for collabing with a man instead of just moving on to someone else.
I want to understand this point of view cause I just don't get it

>>56759438
>I don't give a fuck about male collabs but everyone I watch is in the green
what do I make of this?

>>56760696
>>56788017
>>56760910
>>56761346
>>56761822
>>56784116
>>56786152
>>56787232
>>56788013
>>56788484
>>56789334
So WHAT am I supposed to do? Take my gf/wife into the fucking mountains isolated from the rest of society and live with here in there with only nothing but fucking dirt and seeds so I don't get called a cuck?

>>56789619
Yes?

>>56789334 (me)
>>56789619
>already compromised with a girl
get out of here, you're too late to be saved. don't say I didn't warn you.

>>56789619
Stop caring what kissless indians and hispanics saw about you being a cuck. You are an adult being influenced by giggling teens.

>>56788130
nta but the problem is not that the holomems participating in the collab are whores (to me they aren't) but the whole holizontal brand is an attempt to compete with vspo, a whore enabling company and cover has been recently enabling and pushing for whore behavior (see how much they pamper laplus although she's nothing but a burden).
Gen7 is gonna be the official fps male collabing gen; it looks like cover wants to go there.
It wasn't a coincidence. This year we had botan and korone playing with dudes, they lied to kanata to make her play with dudes, they started holizontal and pushed nene to join even though valorant got her hate (because that game is japanese tinder) and the next step is openly making holizontal the "mixed branch" of hololive; and the worst part is that now anyone can be potentialy recruited for holizontal (since the members for the first collab and this one are different. They are literally going after every holo they can press into doing it).

>>56759438
Homos totally mindbroke you if you had the gall to make this shit thread. Jesus fuck dude.

>>56789619
Just dont listen to these people easy as that. They all have seld esteem problems so they dont trust anyone who are with them. If you love your girl, you treat her well, always make sure to keep they "spark" on and shes seems happy you have nothing to worry about exept her assaulting you one night if you dare say no lol.

>>56785884
What about the time she possessed axel and managed to win the tempus knowledge contest

>>56789509
They want to feel in control nothing else. This has stopped being a fan thing long ago they want to feel they are in the right so they became obbsesive with "winning".

>>56789509
Time and money invested. Your pockets are not infinite and you don't live forever.

>>56790574
That was kino

>>56785884
It really scares me people like you actually exist, I was going to say "I hope you find a better oshi" but you deserve it at this point. If you don't want to have a mental breakdown here again just accept Kronii likes collabing with Tempus and will do it more in the future.

>>56789508
But they're also girls who live making money off by flirting with men. Its like a slut meet with a gigolo who have the same pimp. Are they bound to do something just bc they both are in the same field to you?

>>56789509
No reason at all anon, the following people you see above have escaped the mental ward known as "Reality" so they live here now as a form of their personal safe space. In short, you can't fix them. They are already hopeless. Just watch your oshi how you want to support them. Insults towards you are temporary and hold no meaning forever.

>>56790917
>America, 2023, retards argue prostitutes and gigolos are no more likely to have sex than the average person

i still can't believe this man had sex with a dog live on stream

>>56788510
>>56788719
It's saying that Nene got "purified" by whoever made the chart, implying she should be higher.

>>56789509
because it's fun to make fun of cucks

>>56759438
Ahhh how could I ever get tired of troonicorn meltdowns?

>>56759438
SEAnog hands typed this.

>>56759438
How come HoloID as well as the JP holos like Sora, Fubuki, Suisei, Towa, Matsuri, and others can collab with males with impunity, but when any of the EN girls do it everyone throws a shitfit?

TOWA IS A WHORE

>>56792225
Towa is a boy. Stop the bs right now!

>>56792019
herbivores and third worlders have no expectations

this is one of the most pathetic threads i've ever seen lmao

>>56792019
Because it only matters to the people who watch the vtuber. No one shitposting in the catalog watches JP or ID.

>>56792744
There's like 5 threads right now that can be equally as pathetic. This is starting to become one of the worst states I've seen the board in awhile.

>>56790574
What about that has anything to do with Vesper?

>>56792744
>>56792902

>>56790908
I have no problem with male collabs.
I don't have crippling insecurity and jealousy issues.
My problem is with vesper specifically because he turned out to be a flaky and drama filled faggot.
I don't like my oshi being branded his friend when she obviously wants nothing to do with him anymore.

>>56792902
#cut4hex

>>56792902
yup i just saw them, kinda funny how these fucking virgins think unsubbing is going to damage the girls in any way lmaooo they are rich and one lil virgin pillowfucker, weeabo coomer cancelling a membership isn't going to change that.

>>56780578
As oppose to irys and chloe. Who only have the upcoming OW2 event and they aren't in the same team nor voice char with the homo.

>>56760696
>>56760910
>>56761822
>>56788484
>>56789334
God this is worst than sand land logic; unicorns shouldn't be tolerated anywhere, even as a joke.

>>56792019
StarsJP is passable because a lot of them are the forerunners of hololive and overall they are more professional
cloutchasing Tempiss is not, they bring with them western values, e-celeb collabs, nijifaggotry and drama (otherwise avoidable)

>>56780578
Nah man kroni would still be collabing with males if they werent in vacation. Ame should be swapped with her she doesnt male collab anymore

>>56792225
Pekora*

>>56793461
I want to know what happens after all of this. What does a unicorn do when they inevitably quit out of frustration or the talent they watch quit. Thousands of dollars, years of their time, do they realize it was all for nothing or are they satisfied with some random girl getting a percentage of their weekly paycheck? I can't comprehend living that way.

>>56789926
The hell's she holding?

>>56786152
That’s a copypasta meme anon…

Why is /vt/ filled with misandrists?

>>56797674
No, just edgy kids playing unicorn vs anti-unicorn wars Unfortunately they are endorsed by mods because they hate this shithole