/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>56386822
Gura. She’s a piece of shit.

Ame from another timeline. Goes around to kill all the other Ames to prevent the Amepocalypse, the end of all timelines because too many Ames exist.

>>56386940
>le ebil demon kang maymay

>>56387031
>Giving low effort homo shitposters (you)s

Council

>>56386822
Ame from another timeline stole Ina's book and now she's gonna erase every other timeline and merge them into one where she is the only Ame

>>56386822
This fucking meme has done irreperable damage to how this site percieves villains in fiction
>It's over Dr Evilmann, your villainy ends here!
>Oh? But have you considered that according to my faultless simulation, if I don't kill fifty million people, a giant demon will come and kill everybody? Also, turns out the people you fight for are even eviler than me! Also, those people you killed? Completely innocent. Also, I'm an allegory for an oppressed minority and my wife was killed in a hate crime. Also...
Oh wow such epic writing elder god tier villain

>>56386946
Better yet, she want to absorb every Ame of all timelines to become omniscient.

>>56386822
who needs fanwork when gura and mori are actual villains in the holo en anime. they even have their own minions; baelz & kronii for mori and fauna & mumei for gura.

>>56387258
helps me filter out shit media faster so its a good thing

>>56386822
Mumei, under council of posessed Sana. Has the whole internal struggle with human civilizations domination of the natural world but leaves the door open for her to rise above the negative traits of humanity and embrace the more noble aspects.

Fauna goes full menhera and creates the COVID viirus when Bolsonaro burns the amazon forest to create more real state.

>>56386940
fpbp

kronii in a fanwork where she tries to turn everyone in EN into a slut

Omega, stop posting fanfiction shit on /vt/.
They are streamers.

>>56386822
Unironically Kiara.

>is an eternal warrior
>lusts after death herself
>can never get it.
>decides to kill as much souls as possible to court her
>actually runs a business that deals death in thousands a day, KFP
>she has money, power, influence - and seeks more.
>perhaps expanding KFP, gaining further power and conquering others.
>emotionally turbulent, calculating, cold, envious
>feels hurt or stepped on by others if they ignore her or feel like shes not needed - really just wants attention, but enough neglect turns her dark

she could be hololive Thanos, with a kino script

>>56386822
ina is probably the best one since she's inspired from lovecraftian myths, but if we're not included her, then i'd definitely say kronii.
she's cold, kind of depressed, and already proved that she masters villain vibes in some of her covers. also, the fact that she's the warden of time makes her almost unbeatable, and considering that ame has big main character vibes, the time traveler versus warden of time concept would be kino.

>>56387845
Yes, Kronii the famous prude is actually also a slut.
At least keep your rrats consistent.

>>56388203
*not including

sorry for the typo.

>>56388232
which rrats? you can like her or not, but we're looking as her as a character here, not as a person.

>>56387958
Thanos is somewhere between meh and shit tier depending on how you interpret his motivation and which version you take.
At best he thinks he is in great tier but is incredibly stupid.

>>56386940
He’s the main character though

>>56388346
Her character has nothing to do with making everyone a slut.
What are you talking about?

>>56388399
a lot of mid-tier villains are incredibly iconic and kino, despite simple motivations

thanos, vader, frieza

>>56388459
Vader is a good villain, he is mysterious and threatening and has a backstory and motivation that make sense when you learn about them.
Thanos is a shit villain, he's just a meme because of how ridiculous he looks and his meme tier motivations.

>>56386822
all of council would work:
>kronii's lore specifically states she's a bitch
>bae is chaotic and would be evil or good on a whim
>sana could just sneeze the earth to dust
>fauna could turn on man for what they've done to nature
>mumei is a reflection of civilization and much of human history is suffering and war

>>56388594
what about frieza? dudes motivation is incredibly simple, yet hes one of the most entertaining villains of all time.

I agree comic thanos is shit, but hes still the big bad, and its how well and menacing he plays a villain that wins fans hearts. same with frieza.

thats why even tho kiaras motivations are simple, she could work incredibly well as a psychopathic murdering villain.

>>56386822
Omega as the main villain with Council being midbosses you befriend after their boss fight. Omega wants to unleash homos onto the world and Myth goes out on a quest to stop him

Mumei will be the first boss. She's kinda dumb and doesn't see what the big fuss is about but fights Myth because she's just doing what she was told.

Fauna is the second boss. She doesn't care about the conflict but since some trees or something got cut down during the last fight, she fights Myth to test their stance on tree-hugging

Bae will be next. Sensing a disturbance that two of her genmates have joined the enemy party, she's worried that these guys are taking her chaos/anaychy schtick and challenges them to a fight. Being the run of Council, she's easily defeated

Next up is Sana. She puts up quite a fight because she's a big, black aussie and the party unintentionally kills her.

Kronii pops up and rewinds time to before the fight happened, but Sana was like, fuck it I'm out. Furious that Myth and the others are trying to prevent Vesper from becoming reality, she fights the party with all she's got. In the end, Ame takes her time powers ala-Megaman and leaves Kronii with the worst alt outfit in EN history.

Unfortunately, they were too late and Omega manages to summon a bunch of homos not once, but twice.

>>56386822
Calli, she stealing death because she knows how bad it is, but in turn without death society gets on chaos

And mid tier should swap with shit tier, villains that are evil just because is better than most "I'm doing it because it's on my nature"

>>56386822
I think Mumei would be great as a disillusioned crazy villain after seeing the cycles of decaying civilization and the failure of human nature.

>>56389060
Never watched DBZ.
My understanding is that all DBZ fans are wither currently idiot teenagers or viewing the show through nostalgia because they watched it when they were idiot teenagers.

I have no comment on how well written a villain he is.

>>56386822
Two of them working together in secret. They actually win but they were good all along and it's a happy ending.

>>56387958
Who would be the Deadpool cucking her in this scenario?

>>56389060
Charisma, just like there's many "crazy" villains but few are at the Joker's level

>>56386822
This list is reversed. The best villain is just the one who wants power. The worst villain by far is the one who cries about how they're actually the hero.

its such a gay nihilist take that a good villain must have good motivations and even ones better than the hero.

>>56391317
>>56391594
>good is good
>bad is bad
>good smashes bad
>good wins
What an amazingly refreshing and interesting take on storytelling.

>>56386822
This anon is correct
>>56387958
Canonically the only two ENs who have actual reasons for conquering the world or posing a worldwide threat are Ina and Kiara. Mori is death, she's just doing her job, Amelia is just a detective that can time travel so also no motive, Gura is just a shark from Atlantist. Ina's reasons are obvious.
Kiara on the other hand is a megalomaniacal corporate overlord who's motive is pretty obvious, take over the world to sell chicken.
I imagine it being a three part story, the first part is Ame, Ina and Gura coming meeting each other, probably fighting because of some misunderstanding and then reconciling their differences and uniting.(Not sure how this one will go, maybe Ame investigates Ina doing some ritual near the sea, Gura also senses this ritual and fights Ina, Ame figures out the ritual is some benign thing like summoning a giant bowl of Sushi, thus resolving the conflict) Second story is Kiara and Mori's background, how they met and eventually how they have a falling out with each other, ends with Kiara becoming obsessed with conquering the world to try and repair whatever broke them apart.
Third part is InAmeSame finding the world under the foot of the orange menace. They investigate who caused this(Possibly motivated by their favourite restaurants or food places being shutdown and replaced?), meet with Kiara, fight, but ultimately fail due to her immortality until eventually Mori intervenes, breaks through Kiara's evil charade via some heartfelt talking to, eventually leading to an apology + redemption and the world returned to normal. All 5 myth now go out onto their future adventures, end scene.
It would be pretty cringe but it's the most consistent story I can come up with from myths lore.

>>56388418
>he doesn't know

Amelia Corps: KIARA OF KFP, WE HAVE COME FOR YOU!

>>56388418
>hero-archetype character is actually the villain
kino

>>56386943
You're a piece of shit for thinking that, just get the rope and make the world a better place

>>56388459
>>56388594
There's no secret recipe to writing a good villain, it depends on context, the needs of the story, the tone, and obviously the writer's proficiency at actual character writing. Character motivation should exist but the specifics are flexible.

>>56392476
>evil is just misunderstood!
This trope was overplayed to death, so it's better to return to the roots of having villains whose motivations are less convoluted.

>>56393703
One has been overplayed for decades, the other has been overplayed since the dawn of fiction.

[Long post but can be interesting to any and all hololive artist lurking here]
I've read a ton of fanmanga on multiples piece of media and some problem came back pretty often just avoid them or don't use common trope

In EN ?
Unironically Bijou or Fauna
Bijou because she's more like a snake on the inside after that collab
Fauna is easy to wrote ,you basically turn her into that one gbf character in a dark timeline, the girl basically spread diesease ,heal them but they are slowly turned into people tree with and they keep their feelings and emotion but can't do anything

THE PROBLEM SADLY
Is that the EN lore is so shit that you can't write with most of council Because they are conceptual god not limited by a linear timeline, they are the concept itself so they are way too powerful without nerfing the shit out of them
In hololive fanmanga from what i've read it's either
Cringe villain chapter with no follow-up and two character facing up (or facing ina )
Ame getting her shit kicked
Council being way too weak
Myth being sidelined
Possessed ina, like litteraly none of them ever used normal ina, just make her evil at the core it can work too
But you can honestly write everyone as villain you just need a good writer and an interesting story

FOR KIARA :
Kiara is never used or if she used it's extremely not subtle in her writting, just make her hate being alive because i don't know she's still living but can't die or something and she want to get close to calli because she want to fucking die or something
It's easy to wrote

AME :
Easy ,she always bail out of a timeline to another basically letting the other version of myth behind getting fucked , you just need make kronni or someone else confronttl this fact ,you can't wrote her as a villain but as a coward, this can work ,unlike someone like trunks from Dragonball she flee ,trunks unlike her fight for each world as much as he can, it's very easy to write you jysr need good reference

FOR Calli :
No need and isn't a villain
She just do her job by being a reaper and she isn't death herself so no
Just make her menacing but cringe and that's it ,gap moe acquired

For gura :
Make her neutral, responding to her environnement based on what other are doing
You attack she attack
Your chill ,she's chill
Everything about Instinct
Simple

And then based on your fanwork just make them evolve, sadly from what i've seen many hololive fan artist (english one) love jumping scene and fleshing their version of the character and goes straight to the action without any build up

And stop with the multiverse shenanigan that expand onto nothing, we got that with Myth bad ending and it's badly made
And don't use council outside of threat like HoloX or omega

But at the end of the days you get much better villain out of ID and JP
Lui (yes easily at that)
Koyori
Hoshinova
Marine
Matsuri
Fubuki
Shion

>>56387171
Why would she want to be one ?
Why ina's book in particular ?
Who can she read Lovecraftian without mumei help ?
Kronii would beat her ass no ?
Why would ame turn this evil ?
Why would she came from another timeline if she can just succed in her own timeline ? Nothing is forcing her to travel to another timeline ?
Ina lowered her guard ?
Ame isn't much stronger since she can't use the book like ina ?
Why would she want to merge every timeline into one ? That's litteraly La+ (unsealed) lore but la+ it's immediate and it's everything in existence so much more impressive ?

There is too many plot hole into that resume you've given

>>56393703
Wanting simple stories where evil is bad simply by it's nature and the heroes valiantly defeat it has been overplayed since the start.
You can have a good story where the villain is just a bad guy doing bad things but then they are just a plot device, not a character.
The story then focuses entirely on the good guys. And those kinds of stories are everywhere as it is.

>>56387285
You don't become omniscient like that since they are fused into you their memories is all you get

You don't become an elder god with Just that

all of them

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR

>>56389060
frieza was a conqueror, and decided to kill any race that could oppose him, its not hard to follow his logic
vader was just a broken man following orders
thanos was a retard who didn't understand how math works

>>56392709
>Possibly motivated by their favourite restaurants or food places being shutdown and replaced
Ina realizes there are no more places selling cookies, myth's bad end ensues

>>56394582
>>56389060
Comic Thanos was actually much better than movie Thanos.
While comic Thanos was just a psychopathic degenerate at least he wasn't a compete fucking retard like movie Thanos.

>>56389434
Kino

>>56394288
Thsi is why you just need to flesh them out more
But most hololive fanartist can't do that or it's very very surface level

Even when writting heroes it's easy to make them with flaws
Same thing with villain
Baccano the anime for exemple did that very well with Ladd russo and Rail tracer
One is a crazy mafioso and the other is a uninghed killer with a that murder in cold blood everyone that harm other (is the good guy but is method are way too brutal)

N'est her are really heroes, 2 neutral character opposing each other is much more interesting than good v bad

>>56395349
You can't "flesh them out" without them moving up the tier list.
If you wan a simple villain you have to deal with the fact that it's a simple villain.

>>56389434
>"I hate homos"
>Writes fanfiction of them

>>56386822
LITERALLY UNBEATABLE
Kronii. She is Time - eternal, unstoppable, unwavering. None can stand before the passage of time and no one has been able to defeat it.
Kiara. Immortality and ambition are a dangerous combo. >>56387958 put it well.
Bae. Or rather, the personification of Sheogorath. Not necessarily evil, but a pure force of chaos that cannot be reasoned with or predicted.

BOSS TIER
Fauna. Nature is a really powerful force. Don't have her forced into a corner where she starts unleashing disasters on you.
Mumei. The natural opposite to Fauna. This is a technocratic dictator who will stop at nothing to defeat his enemy.
Mori. She's just doing her job, which is taking your life. Nothing personal, just business. But won't bother you if not contracted to.
Nerissa. That's a siren seriously, read her name backwards, she'll drive you mad with her voice. Quite dangerous if unprepared.

MINION TIER
Gura. Arguably on the stronger side, but still. She's a talking fish that can move water.
Ina. She's not a fighter. She's merely a priestess of the Old Ones. Unless she completes the summoning ritual, she's no different from a random nun.
Fuwamoco. Just a pair of guard dogs. Don't have the brains or the willpower to rise above following someone.
Ame. A human with a gun and time-travel watch. That's honestly not villain material. She's much more of an MC archetype.

NPC TIER
IRyS. She proudly calls herself a Nephilim, but the worst thing she can do is make you depressed and lose all hope. Not lethal and not dangerous.
Bijou. That's a fucking rock. Her only danger comes from her ass if she falls on you.
Shiori. She's a librarian. At least Ame has some training and a gun.

??? TIER
Sana. No idea how to make "Space" a villain. Other than smashing Uranus.

>>56386822
Ina is force of nature "evil". Nothing can top that

>>56386822
IRyS(lore ver.) hope through despair

>>56386822
Nerissa (horn restored)
Or Mumei could pull a Tobi/Obito

>>56387258
Agreed. "Elder God tier" villain might be a great memorable character but not worth the sacrifice that such characters demands from the story. You're essentially crippling your story and burying your hero to make the villain look cool.

>>56395639
>but the worst thing she can do is make you depressed and lose all hope
You have it backwards, she doesn't control other people's hope, she becomes more or less powerful depending on the amount of hope in the world.

Sana is a threat based on scale alone, she can destroy planets indifferently because it's insignificant to her. Also she loves violence and her limiter also limits people's lifespan.

>>56395639
If we're just talking power levels I think Bae is immune/resistant to time manipulation.
Time is also closely related to order so Chaos Rat is the obvious opponent.
I think Sana is supposed to be about as powerful as Kronii, she's also a concept.
Fauna and Mumei, as you put them, are a level down since their "domain" is much more narrow.
Mori I would put somewhere below Mumei and Fauna, since she's just an apprentice.
For Advent we don't actually know much. Bijou should be extremely tough. She might be immune to Death since she's artificial.
Fuwamoco are probably quite powerful.
Nerissa with only one horn blew down a huge door like it was nothing and is supposed to be kind of a big dick demon with both, since "the gods" had to step in to stop her.
I don't think Shiori is human? Not much to go on here, but she might have access to a whole bunch of magical tools and forbidden knowledge.

>>56396500
Mori got promoted to Death after NUO, she's one of the concept holos now.

>>56386822
Where does Jenma place?

>>56387285
Ameniscient

>>56395154
being retarded doesnt make someone a bad character or even poorly written. movie thanos was infinitely better than comic thanos, who was pretty much a knockoff parody of darkseid.

>Everything is a tierlist
Doesn't this go against Eastern philosophy? You can't have a good or bad villain, they just are. If they fulfill their role in the story and have a foil, that's fine.

>>56387958
>lusts after death herself
you are stuck in 2021 and mori is not death itself, congrats you were wrong twice in one short sentece

>>56396865
She got a promotion after NUO.

>>56396955
>NUO
what?

>>56386822
Ame would likely make the best villain if you are setting aside the most obvious choices of Council or Nerissa.

>>56397052
Threadreader alert!

>>56397052
New Underworld Order, her sololive.

>>56397105
sorry, I only listen to idol music, assuming NUO is a song

>>56396500
>If we're just talking power levels I think Bae is immune/resistant to time manipulation.
One of my weirder ideas/fantasies/daydreams had Myth and Council mapped out as some sort of family tree. That headcanon sounded kinda like:
>Chaos is the origin of all. It caused the Big Bang
>From the Big Bang came two sisters - Time and Space
>Space created Nature, while Time created Death
>Nature gave birth to the Phoenix and Civilization
>The Priest, the Detective the Shark are members of different incarnations of Civilization
Yeah, it's kinda against all lore and very cringe, but it sounded kino in my head back then.

>>56397240
all lore is cringe anyway, best not to worry about it and do whatever

>>56386822
Mumei
Civilization and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

Of EN? Council as a single entity. I made a post a while ago, someone was asking about a Myth vs Council war.
The short version is that
>Fauna
Tries to tell myth not to fuck with council in as peaceful a way as possible. Kiara tries to go scorched earth on her but jobs after Fauna goes wrath of nature mode. Calli collects kiara's ashes.

They encounter Bae, who sicks the rest of council on Myth to distract them from the plot.

>Kronii
Chases Ame through five dimensions because of the Sotobro effect. Getting sick of Ame's timeline jumping bullshit, Kronii lets herself exist in every timeline, where Ame has set up an Ame in every other timeline to ambush her. Kronii dies.
>Mumei
Talks some shit about wiping and restarting civilisation. Does some psycho bullshit, hurts someone, Gura goes Forma de Rojo and beats her the fuck down. Mumei dies.
>Sana
Gets in a big kaiju fight with Eldergod Ina. Idk how it ends. Sana probably gets mindbroken.

>Bae
Final boss, but everyone else is distracted with their fight so it's just Calli trying to survive. Bae launches a would-be deathblow, but Kiara's ashes burst into flames to deflect it. The rest of myth slowly start rolling back into the fight.
Then IRyS shows up and becomes the white ranger.

>>56387258
Ah! But as a counterpoint, Dojyan!

>>56397703
Really a super reach to have Council die to anyone in Myth except maybe MAYBE Mori.
And even then, Bae solos them all. Her lore power level is retarded. The only girl in Hololive who could give her a run for her money is La+ (forma de unbound).

>>56397703
Sana would beat up Ina because Sana has complete resistance to the Cosmic Horror side of Ina as a being of the Cosmos herself.

>>56398063
Kronii should be somewhere around Bae's level, they're the only two confirmed multiversals.
I don't see any amount of wank putting La+ anywhere near those two (or Sana).

>>56398328
>Kronii should be somewhere around Bae's level, they're the only two confirmed multiversals.
They are? I've only seen Kronii moving around one universe's timeline, but maybe I missed something.

>>56398467
There's only one Kronii who deals with all of the Ames' shit across all universes. She's completely busted.

>>56398063
All of council is made up of personified concepts, they can't really die.
And other than Fauna and Mumei they have powers over essential parts of reality, space, time, and order.

>>56397703
Council vs Myth wouldn't really be all that fun to write/watch unless you heavily nerfed Council because their dumb lore is that much more extreme, the only one that can maybe punch up to their level is Mori, and even then she wouldn't be able to deal with Sana, Kronii and Bae. The only way to deal with their lore is going full THAT KID mode and go "uuuuum, actually, I can beat up all of them because I am a ultra duper god being above concepts" like Haachama did after they debuted.
Myth or maybe even Advent would make for more engaging villain arc cringekino, like Ame going full COMPLEX MOTIVES.

>>56398328
Im not getting into lore shit, all Ill say is there is a reason why La+ is currently sealed/shackled.

>>56398722
Did you even read the post I replied to?
Im aware Council is busted, hence why I questioned Myth killing anyone in Council except possibly Mori.

IRyS snaps for some stupid anime bullshit reason and decides to remind the world why she was locked up along with all the world's other great evils.
Seriously, has IRyS ever mentioned Pandora's Box? I wouldn't be at all surprised if she had never heard of it.

>>56398819
Kronii and Sana are on the same level as Bae for power levels is what I mean.

>>56398755
Id love to see a Myth vs Advent animation.
That would be alot more of a fair fight than Myth vs Council.
However, I still think Mori being around would tip the scales way in Myths favor.

>>56398063
>>56398755
I'm considering this from a writing standpoint, not a powerscaling standpoint. So I'm assuming they have a superhuman but not insurmountable durability. The fact that that is bullshit by (((lore))) is immaterial, to be frank.

Fonner explicitly doesn't die, she doesn't want to fight period, she just wants to talk to her growing saplings and pet the animals. Kiara just chat shit and got hit.
Kroner dies strictly through her own hubris. Theoretically, she's impossible to kill because all it takes is any of her timehax to dodge anything. Her fight with Ame is more like Ame running away while Kronii walks menacingly in her direction with a big indestructible clockhand sword. Then she does the thing and gets instantly stabbed from infinite different directions.
Moom afaik doesn't really have any power feats, so her getting speedblitzed by rageboosted superhuman sharkgirl is a cathartic way to end.

I'll give you Bae (and >>56398228 Sana) though. I just thought the story beats were cool.

Can't say I know much about Advent's lore, so i won't comment on that possibility.

>>56398898
Lol no they arent.

>>56398756
Full power La+ is probably a planet buster. There's so much of a gulf between that and contending with Kronii, Bae or Sana that it's essentially irrelevant, she is below notice.
Compared to Council's top dogs there is no functional difference between her and a grain of sand.
You could wank La+ to galaxy busting and she'd still be irrelevant to them.

There is actually a way to make fights equal without nerfing the characters themselves. Just make them obey danmaku rules.

>>56399011
yes they are

>>56398918
> I still think Mori being around would tip the scales way in Myths favor.
I can’t find the timestamp, but I’m pretty sure it’s been stated on stream that Mori can’t travel through time, but is immune to Kronii, and by extension Ame stopping time. Seems like something that could impact a fight greatly.

>>56398755
Everything dies, even the cosmos. depending on how chuuni you want to get about things even stuff like 'chaos' will die as it's a construct rather than a state of matter so upon the death of the universe even chaos dies.
The only thing absolute about reality is that some day it will end, some day everything dies. So I think it's perfectly fine to powerwank mori to the point she can take out even those three,

>>56399058
With Danmaku you avoid people killing each other but realistically, if they're fighting seriously, the big dicks of the setting would still win the exact same fights they would without spell card rules.
There is no chance in hell that Marisa or Reimu could ever beat someone like Yukari or Yuuka in a serious danmaku fight, they just won't get splattered all over Gensokyo.
It's integral to the setting that the really powerful characters are just playing around all the time and if one of them for some reason doesn't the others step in.

>>56398664
Oh right, neato

>>56399214
Mori is just "death" for Earth, no? Not the entire universe.
At her most powerful she could be above Mumei and Fauna.

>>56387958
Kiara has already started that if she's eaten and shit back out she can't respawn. This, ironically, makes a shark with IBS to be much more powerful than her.

I’m assuming when you guys scale the holos you don’t include on stream feats of strength, and endurance correct?

>>56399783
>on stream feats
Roommate feats, no. Stated kayfabe feats, yes.

>>56397703
>. Kiara tries to go scorched earth on her but jobs after Fauna goes wrath of nature mode.
I don't know man it seems like Corporations already BTFO nature on the reg and those guys don't have an immortal phoenix for a CEO. People wanna make nature super strong but like Captain Planet already shows pollution rekts those types

If you take IRyS' offhanded jokes about her lore as canon, then an evil nephilim would be the most powerful antagonist. The Ancient Ones would be the second strongest and the Atlanteans would be the third. Squeeze a Mori/Fuwamoco Abyssal Saga in there and you have a multi-arc fanwork.

>>56399915
Fauna is the biosphere.
Captain planet is speficially tied to the planet's health in relation to human habitation, and he is affected by very local events.
Fauna would godstomp the Cap.

>>56395528
leave it to homo lovers to make everything about them

>>56398898
It depends since "chaos" is something so vague that it can mean a bunch of different things, and in dumb powerwank, vagueness is power.
>>56398918
Myth vs Advent would be pretty cool especially since they could have some really good matchups :
>FWMC vs Gura
A feral, animalistic brawl between the apex predator and infernal guard dogs. No bells, no whistles, just a straightforward, ruthless fight to the last woman standing. You even have options to scale things up, like Gura going Red or one of the twins getting a rage boost when the other dies like Ornstein and Smough.
>Nerissa vs Kiara
Since Nerissa's general gameplan isn't really killing, but driving insane, Kiara's immortality wouldn't be such a massive factor. Also Kiara is Nerissa's EN oshi so you have some very easy drama avenues regardless of who's playing the villain role.
>Shiori vs Ame
Would be a full on information battle, with both having ways to access boundless knowledge (Shiori through her Archive and forbidden knowledge, Ame through access to infinite timelines). The fight itself could also be a clash between their M.O.'s. Shiori is very much a planner and she would go full Sherlock in finding ways to go around Myth's more unconventional power plays (maybe she can even find a way to scale Mori down to their playing field). She would also be doing most of the talking, going in endless tangents to confuse Ame and divert attention from her actual strategy. Ame's brand of la creatividad, on the other hand, can be much more improvisational, her timeline jumping being basically the ultimate form of adaptation to Shiori's schemes, being reactive and, ultimately almost unpredictable to everyone but the most prepared.
The only one's I'm struggling to pair up are Biboo and Mori, especially since Mori's now Death with a capital "D", but outside of powerlevels they're also a good "drama" match, especially since they've been interacting and getting friendly a lot. One anon in this thread pointed out that, with Bijou being artificial, she's immune to "dying", but that'd be only for natural death, she could still be broken/destroyed.
>>56399214
Yah, you could always go full Nasuverse chuuni "Shiki can kill concepts" powerwank if whatever you want to write calls for it, I just never thought it made much sense. I mean, even after the heat death of the universe, "space" would still be around, only the things inside it would die and wither away. And as long as there is "space", then there would also be "time", since they are both intrinsically related. And "chaos" is so vague that I don't even know what "killing Chaos" would mean, outside of pic related

>>56386822
Gura. It just works.

>>56389434
You're horrible at making lore plotlines... Just saying

>>56395639
>Doesn't even get the lore right on half of the characters.
Bad list please do more research next time.

>>56400045
Worst that happens is that she gets corrupted by the pollution and becomes even more powerful in exchange for being more unhinged

>>56400762
I dig your pairings anon, Gura vs FWMC especially sounds like it would be really cool.

>>56401833
Pretty much. As long as there's life she's fine.
If all the life is just mutated cockroaches and bacteria she'll probably be weakened but unless you glass the planet you ain't killing her.
Speaking of, how does Fauna (and others) apply?
Can you hypothetically kill Fauna with enough power and all life on Earth just ceases to be (even if the planet itself is unaffected)? Or does she respawn like a Touhou fairy, will keep coming back as long as the thing she is tied to exists?

>>56399630
She's an immortal warrior with flame hotter than the sun and a phoenix form who's over 10 storey tall. You're not eating her.

>>56386822
doroken. Perfect cast of characters to go against shiraken in a bout of good vs evil

>>56398722
>>56398063
>All of council is made up of personified concepts, they can't really die.
Not really. Fauna as a lore expansion, revealed that she was pretty much a witch who usurped the role of the previous keeper of nature. So they're clearly not personification of concept, it seems to be just a role.

>>56401994
Council (except Bae) are the "guardians" of what they're assigned to, not the thing as such. So Life doesn't need Fauna to exist, but Fauna controls what life there is. So killing all of life wouldn't kill Fauna (she could bring it back, like when Sana nuked the Earth), but killing Fauna wouldn't kill all life either.

>>56400998
Gura works in any position,but she wont shine in any but shounen protag by means of being a big fish
kiara would make a fun villian doe, you can't kill but you gotta find a way to contain

>>56393206
those teammates look a little fruity

>>56402975
From the talent page.
Sounds like a proto-Kronii existed from the start like Bae, but only developed a personality because of humanity.
I don't know what "making it universal" means though.

Unsealed la+ is litteraly above multiversal what is blud saying above ????

"Absorbing all of existence into her being at one" is above anything in council

Existence is way way above multiversal power
Know how to powerscale

>>56386822
Goku would kill them all

>>56386822
Ame. She hates her job.

>>56387958
You forget the Austrian failed performer part
God bless yagoo saving us from another war

>>56404715
>taking a fucking wiki seriously that powerscales Marine to megaversal
Unsealed La+ never even managed to take over one universe.

>>56399047
>Full power La+ is probably a planet buster.
Her best confirmed feats are in the solar system range. (playing billiards with multiple planets and growing to 120 billion km for example)


>>56397179
I still have yet to see evidence that Mori is literally the personifcation of death now.


>>56395639
People really understimate Sana, IRyS and Gura.

>>56406092
>Her best confirmed feats are in the solar system range.
Ok, but even if we go wide and say her upper limit is galaxy busting (which is way, WAY above playing with a bunch of planets) that's still nothing to universe/multiverse tier characters.
If Sana is as "tough" as a single universe then a full power attack from a galaxy busting LA+ would be equivalent to knocking off a tiny little speck of dead skin.

>>56386822
IRyS but its all pon and they have sex at the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJW7YJafvxc

>>56406092
>still have yet to see evidence that Mori is literally the personifcation of death now
Mori's just the the Grim Reaper's first apprentance. She and a bunch of other reapers serve "Death-sensei"
As far as I'm aware she's just not "alive" in the traditional sense

>>56386822
I loathe the modern trend of giving villains a cause. There is nothing wrong with doing it for evulz. Villains who are evil for evil's sake are great. And unless you want to pretend that every rapist or pedo or manager called Omega has a sobstory, they're perfectly realistic.
Also Omega
Some people are just born evil, and that's okay.

>>56386822
what about complex tier?

>>56387958
Kiara makes an intimidating villain based purely on the fact shes German
I'd shit bricks if she started speaking german

I got no idea actually but many great writers here as always

>>56387958
She's not a great villain in terms of power level

but she could be a kino earth-level threat villain

>>56407113
Also didnt mori herself said she is the weakest of the group she is the yamcha of en

>>56407466
Ame, she just needs to find a way to MIND HACK

>>56406975
IRyS but she's the lieutenant of the bad guy and has no idea that they are bad.
She keeps getting sent to places with vague instructions and hits on the heroes trying to stop her.

>>56407816
If she did I haven't heard it but if that's true then if all reapers have to learn how to fight to deal with demons and whatever Mori said during her 3D event in that string of Myth 3Ds, all of them gotta be pretty strong

>>56398961
Why is lore Jewish

>>56406092
>>56407113
Her twitter states she is Death >>56396955
Mentions of being the Grim Reaper's apprentice were changed for Grim Reaper or Death on her Youtube as well, following NUO.
Also, excerpt from this stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chhen0o2ghw&t=8507s
>I actually think it's really funny, that I'm in Myth, because Death is not a fucking myth (chuckle), it's the only real thing in this world.[...]
>I guess being a personification, right, being the Grim Reaper, but I still if you say myth to me I still think Big Foot.[...]
(She later clarified that british people are indeed mythical creatures)

>>56386940
>>56387031
Don't forget Selen called out the fact that Altare's lore was just a rip off of Vox to his face
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmoio-FbwE

>>56406092
Gura is only the best atlantean, and everything we know about that says it isn't a high bar. It's like being the best Smash player in your 10k population hometown with no awareness of the outside world.
I agree with the anon that pinned her as a minion. She radiates minion energy and any chumbud would agree.

>>56386822
Now that we have advent, it's obviously Shiori. Reasoning is that Ame is the best fit for a protagonist, and Shiori is the best match for creating tension in the story as the antagonist for having many of the similar features/powers as her yet can be pushed into a completely different direction character wise.

>myth
Ame's background and infinite timeline is clearly the standout among the five.
>council
Their "embodiment of XXX" lore made them much more useful as plot devices and not actual enemy. For they are "indefeatible" unless you go with some silly chunni logic and any reason to position one of them as the villain likely works for others too. Bae has some potential, but a human detective trying to defy chaos itself just doesn't make that much sense.
>advent
thematically being prisoners that escaped is already a much better setup than council. Among these five, FWMC/rock/Rissa's lores all are too specific and lack aggression. It basically has to be Shiori: her archive of forbidden knowledge and character archetypes is a great mirror to Ame's access to infinite timelines. Besides, we know what the potential defeat for her would look like unlike council: getting sent back to the cell. She is the perfect antagonist to Ame. You can basically make up infinite number of ways to create tension between the two, say Shiori wants to catch every Ame across timelines for her archive, or Ame is an OOC Watson that she can't stand, etc.

>>56392709
Some interesting takes, but I thought Mori was death's apprentice, not death personified just yet. Isn't she nerfed somewhat by that fact?

Hasn't fauna implied that she killed or captured the previous guardian of nature and took their powers? That plus the yandere thing might make her the only actual villain.

>>56386822
Ame from a bad timeline trying to fix some terrible mistake she made, but needs to kill alt timeline versions of the rest of Myth and Council and use their artifacts to power up her watch to do it.
Justifies it to herself that it's all worth it because if she succeeds none of it will ever have happened anyway.

>>56408578
Onh nah
You can't rip off nox story like that
Leave blud where he belong
In peak fiction

FATFUCK PEROCINO NO QUESTION SOMETHING HIDDEN IN THAT FLUFFY ASS AND CUTE EYES OF THAT THING AND ITS PURE EVIKFJASF

>>56408530
See >>56408249

>>56408249
Interesting since her profile also states she's the Grim Reaper's first apparentice so maybe she's "Death" as in "of Death" in terms of being manifestation or byproduct of the concept of it's concept If both are to be true
It would make some sense since the other concepts get capitialized when being referred to since they seem to have some kind sentience themselves (which I guess is why Council was made ot reign them in)

>>56408578
I always loved the idea of an Amelia from an evil timeline being the real villain, but hiding her motivations or identity until the big climax part of the story. The part where all the curtains sweep away, and the full scale of what's going on is presented to the audience. Maybe that Ame was the real 1337, but for reasons unknown her own timeline was destroyed, seemingly by some kind of anomaly, and driven by grief and despair, she sought out answers and initially revenge. Answers she finally found with the members from our own timeline.

Something that follows that sort of plot outline, basically

>>56408249
Oh. So NUO was basically like her coronation ceremony? That's kinda kino.

>>56408573
That was her debut but the quickly made it clear that it was just a story
(though she could make it real at any time if she choses)

>>56408842
Anything that mention the Grim Reaper's First Apprentice line is a copy paste from her debut bio, while those using the Death or Grim Reaper wording are recently updated, so I think in a meta sense it's a matter of out of date lore being used in marketing kek. But your interpretation is fun too, in a more Watsonian sense.
>>56408993
Yeah, that was basically the concert's concept.

>>56408459
Nerissa could want her horn back and maybe decided that simply having it back wouldn't be enough to statisfy her anger

>>56408459
Shiori and Ame being like Moriarty and Sherlock or, more fittingly, the Doctor and the Master is a pretty good dynamic with plenty of avenues for writer anons to get creative since it's not just a straightforward brawl.
>>56408578
>Finally gets enough power to do it
>Only manages to return 20 minutes in time
>Apologizes and disappears to die alone
kino....

>>56387258
anyone who fully embaces this site without filter is a retard, such as yourself: 4chan isnt ONE GUY

>>56409072
I think that's not unique enough since the very same reasoning could work for FWMC: they are angry that they are were punished for just having fun. Besides it is Shiori who either hid the horn or knows its whereabouts.

>>56386822
>High tier
That's not a villain. That's literally a revolutionary socialist (not Marx, goddamn it)

>>56402453
Actually I just thought of something critical. Council aren't gods. At least not directly, they're the AVATARS of the gods, which is an entirely different thing. The gods can't die, obviously, but their avatars sure fucking can. Being hard to kill doesn't mean immortal. And if the Holoween lore is any good indication, Kronii doesn't bleed, she sort of just falls apart in chunks and debris, like a crystal. But she CAN be killed. Safe to say the same goes for the others.

>>56409818
My based bourgeoisie-reaping oshi...

>>56388594
youre gay

>>56386940
>Altare
>main character
He's the tutorial npc at best

>>56386822
The real question is, is there a single EN that could beat Ankimo in a strip poker match.

>>56386822
IRyS, but unintentionally. When meeting Advent for the first time after their escape, exposure to Bijou's emotion aura creates a DESPAIR feedback loop.

>>56391594
>>56392476
morality is made up gay nigger faggot. do not reply idc.

>>56396263
Its initially designed as a measuring stick for western CRPGs, where the main character generally has no personality and is just a medium for interesting dialogue prompts.

>>56394582
>>56395154
what is the problem with killing half of life?

>>56409389
Whoops I probably didn't explain enough as to why it could be different and was just focusing on her abilites and what she could do to humanity and potentially Mumei if her existence is connected to them
The seemingly sentient concepts like Civilization are also intertwined with Nature and Fauna as well. Civilization also 'gave time great power' so Kronii could only really work as protag if it nerfed her

The Shiori is something I'd (if this was a story where Nerissa had to be the villain) would be something of a twist where her supposed ally and friend as actually working with the protags some degree and have that push her "over the edge"
I don't think she'd be much of a threat warranting more than Myth, Mumei, Fauna and nerfed Kronii unless she got her hands on Shiori's hidden knowledge and found a way to scale to higher threat levels than Earth and the Underworld

I had to to write a Nerrissa villain story, it'd probably involve those aspects

>>56389434
in lore Omega was supposed to be the homo's enemy

>>56410679
it makes zero sense if you're aiming to become someone who can double all resources in the universe
(or make tunnels to infinife resourcefull dimensions but that would mindbreak capefags too hard)

Villainous bump

>>56386822
>Villains who are just evil or lust for power.
>Shit tier

fucking retards making essays about what evil and what good is. never have consumed any story that isn't shonen-shit. like being good or pursuing good is fucking trivial, or that a piece of shit is a work of art that needs to be dissected - your heroshit is filled with people who are innately powerful and only deal with le moral subjective problems because no one in history can write an ideal worth shit.

>>56395639
>No idea how to make "Space" a villain.
nigger, if something can beat time IS space

>>56395639
>IRyS
>Bijou
both enters into manipulation of emotions, capable to sway a great number of people, for IRyS she could drive into suicide or death due overconfidence or worse, creating a cult of mindless zealots in equal meassure and for bijou is likely the same but for a great spectrum of emotions

>>56396638
>Mori got promoted to Death after NUO
stream? also it's funny she went for the rapper route, considering the very origins of rap

>>56423393
Here >>56408249
I'm 60% sure a big chunk of the motivation for the rapper thing was the reaper rapper pun. The myth girls were assigned their models by Cover and japs love puns. They probably came up with it soon after accepting her candidature and learning about her rap background.

>>56398755
>like Haachama did after they debuted.
I believe she did THAT stream when she was in her schizo arc and even then she was heavily affected by time

>>56391133
Watame.

>Respawns every eight seconds
>is a shitposter
>Shep.

>>56424135
>Mori has three songs with Sheep in the title
you're onto something

>>56400762
>FWMC vs Gura
it's funnier because, despise being cowards, fuwamoco do have a thirst for violence and collateral damage

>>56386822
I love stuff like this. I also thought Council would make good antagonists, but they are definitely really overpowered. Once I thought of an alternate timeline scenario with every Myth member ending up being the most powerful version of themselves to combat that.
>Kiara purposefully starts killing herself in different ways over and over until death loses all meaning to her and she doesn't even need to revive anymore, she is just immune to all damage (the idea is that she revive just a little bit faster each time by getting used to it until her respawn time just hits 0.0s)
>Calli succeeds the grim reaper and does that job to its competition, becoming the personification of entropy as she the one swinging the scythe on the universe at the end of all things.
>Gura returns to the depth of the ocean and devours Gawr, getting rid of her chaotic side and becomes absolute order as the ruler of Atlantis ("Absolute Order Gura" -> "AO Gura" -> "Blue Gura")
>Ina fully gives her entire being over to the old ones but with her still in control through uncountable contracts chained into each other (kinda like credit card fraud) where she gave her eyes and then bargained for sight beyond sight using her legs to then bargain for wings unbound by the physical realm using her skin, blood and so on, turning herself into a Ship of Theseus of busted eldritch powers.
>And Ame becomes the "Final Amelia" with the broken watch embedded in her hand she overcomes time (after all the tool that is used for time travel is unaffected by time) and turns herself into the anchor of the timeline so that all outcomes will always lead back to her.

>>56386822
the chat.

>>56386822
I've been watching this guy's videos for my hololive shonen fix, he has a lot of autistic lore too
https://www.youtube.com/@kugekianimations

Just interesting to see what someone running with this idea comes up with, even if its silly plus its always nice to see animators get better over time

bump

>>56408415
She's a fucking 9000 + year old goddess with water magic and a built in bloodlust switch.

>>56406791
I just wanted to clarify that Laplus is easily above planetary. Maybe she could fight Sana or Kronii to some degree but it doesn't seem likely that she would win.

>>56399232
>There is no chance in hell that Marisa or Reimu could ever beat someone like Yukari or Yuuka in a serious danmaku fight
They literally do you dumb faggot secondary.
>inb4 hurr durr they weren't being serious cope

>>56410679
It's a short term solution at best, populations will eventually recover and problems will start once more.

>>56399232
>Marisa or Reimu could ever beat someone like Yukari or Yuuka in a serious danmaku fight
NEWFAG Yuuka's fucking debut is her losing to Reimu and Marisa
>B-but pc98
They literally talk about it when she shows back up in windows

Reimu more importantly is so fucking busted that people like you don't seem to realize the rules limits her far more than anyone else

>>56386822
this tierlist is such a relic of the past, because lately i find some of the most fun and memerable villains are literally just assholes being evil and not being ashamed about it. there's a kind of charisma to it

>>56433890
If you think about it PC-98 makes Reimu and Marisa even more impressive since they managed to whoop Yuuka twice in one day before either had their big signature moves. And after that they take on Shinki and win. Heck, Reimu still relied on Genji back then so no floating away from reality cheese either.

>>56400762
>And as long as there is "space", then there would also be "time"
Heat death of universe is effectively death of space, time and chaos at the same time. There's "nothing" left. Time doesn't flow in a perfectly still world and space can't exist without "something" in it. Consecutively, it also means Death itself can't exist either but I'm pretty sure Mori claimed to be a dimension-hopper(which makes sense because Kiara is also one and she killed her multiple times which would be impossible otherwise) so she just goes to another one at that point.

>>56387258
That first part actually is elder god tier villain, though

>>56386822
Vesper

>>56436402
It isn't and especially not in the context of the Hololive universe since Kronii's age is infinite.

>>56387258
Utilitarianism has been a disaster for the human race

>>56386822
Heh you forgot red gura

>>56408415
>>56432891
>>56440742
People underestimate Gura forgetting that she’s has generally left a lot of her lore to interpretation, possibly on purpose. The fact there’s huge gaps of 9000 years and the fact Gawr is even a thing canon wise and was active during those times hasn’t honestly been discussed leaves a lot of room for power growth.

>>56386943
Stream Ame instead of posting

>>56395639
>seriously, read her name backwards
wtf

>>56436402
Time is a human construct, when humanity dies time dies.