/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>50451860
Yes because management greenlit and hired Tempus (the downfall of EN)

>>50451860
Yes

I don't know. What's the actual context of the clip?

>>50451921
kek this makes me laugh even if i don't like homos you can clearly read the cope.

I don't believe any of the "gura stopped streaming because management bullies her" rrats by copebuds, but I can see how they stay alive and well when management is this fucking retarded
>oy vey, a game gura actually enjoys? pls stop playing it!!
>LITERAL PENISES WITH FORESKIN AND PISS SLITS JIZZING EVERYWHERE??? YABBA DABBA DOO BAE GO FOR IT!!
based kiara calling out that bullshit

I need to see gura and kiara together always

>>50451971
Outlast trials has dicks on screen and management doesn't like that

>>50451860
Why did they make Kiara look like a Mr.Beast thumbnail?

>>50451921
You know men existed in their lives before stars EN, right? Your logic means Hololive/HoloEN were failures out the gate.

>>50451860
God i love how unfiltered and direct Kiara can be.
Fuck management, hololive is already a stale snorefest.

>>50451999
It is funny that the only time we hear about management shutting a game down behind the scenes for something other than perms reasons is when Gura is playing it

>>50451860
yes

>>50452062
>homobeggar resorting to dox

>>50451999
>is EN management fucking retarded and responsible for the downfall of EN?
>yes
>but it's still Gura's fault?
>yes
Tiresome.

>>50451860
complicit, yes. responsible, no.

>>50452033
Only tempiss cock allowed!!!

>>50452062
that's retarded even by homosister comeback standards
try a little harder next time

>>50452111
Correct, but unironically.

>>50452106
>>50452125
Stop samefagging.

>>50452123
Just as management intended

>>50451860
>Is management responsible for EN's downfall ?
yes

>>50452062

>>50452062
retard actually pretending it's about RL shit so he can fight a strawman

>>50452190
Your response, sister?

>>50452114
>has the power to single-handedly take away the talents' ability to play any game
>is entirely responsible for destroying the Rust arc with bullshit made-up rules like no attacking anyone without permission
>merely complicit

>>50451860
Sorry, the girls are too innocent, they can't play games that display cocks on the screen. I'm sure you wouldn't want that from your oshii
But if you really like the game, Tempus is having a collab this week, they have no issue showing it since they're males.

>>50452062
>can't even use common logics
tempiss subhumans have been real irrational after the tempiss = EN3 meme dead in the water

>>50451860
won't forgive them for sucking the life out of Myth

>>50452246
Nice inspect element

>>50452290
I'm going to be driven insane from this shit. I really wish they'll just get on their PLs and do things there instead.

>>50451860
it's just another Hololive episode of "chink doing more harm than good"
fucking fire this tempiss whore already

As shitty as management is, I'm happy with this particular trend.

Bae playing Genital Jousting was clearly way over the line and I agree with pulling it back to that line. They need to stop EN from drifting further into shock clickbait content territory, like how they're already being emboldened into requesting Fear and Hunger of all things.

For Outlast Trials, the game just needs a streamer friendly mode with mild censorship. If not, they have to be better at censoring it on the fly. If they can't do that it only makes sense they'd be told to shut it down.

>>50452700
In A Way Out, you see human cock not just monster cock.

>>50452700
but the ban man clips are funny

>>50451999
isn’t this just a case of one manager being more retarded than the other? nudity is allowed on youtube as long as it’s not sexual in nature so what’s the big deal. is gura’s manager just perpetually walking on eggshells bc of her fans?

>>50452033
>actual dick-based game Bae played gets a pass while this makes them questioning things

>>50452700
I hope they block holojp from playing Final Fantasy 16, I heard there are sex scenes in it.

>>50452840
Bae "supports the cause" so she gets a pass.

>>50452106
>>50452125
>>50452225
>>50452244
>>50452315
You sisters ok?

>>50452867
>current year square enix
>giving perms to any final fantasy game not named X/X2 or XIV
roru

>>50452700
ENs numbers are already in the shitter so why not let them have fun. the penises aren’t real anon, there’s nothing to be afraid of

>>50451860
The one responsible for EN downfall is whoever decided to postpone EN3 indefinitely.

>50452917
This is the sister that tries to call hololive fans sisters, it also calls unicorns trannies

>>50451860
Isn't it obvious, i mean they unironically thought that debut stars2 before en3 was a great idea and approved it...

>>50451860
Yes
They never once made their job correctly. A good manager would tell the talent to fucking stream

>>50452943
Yes

>>50453046
Wait until they reveal the mixed Gen lol.

>>50452251
That's not entire correct.
Yes, management is retarded. This isn't news. However, the girls have a lot of power to go against that if they want to. Just look at HoloJP - there are bad cases still, but JP members have learned to fight for their projects / ideas, and successfully done so many times.
Marine said that while the management can be over cautious at times, those restrictions are there to protect the girls' channels. They can try to argue against it and back their ideas with proper arguments, but too bad many Holo girls just shut up and accepted it on the first "This might be bad" comment from the management. EN members should learn from them and grow a spine, unless they are just that lazy.
Even in the Outlast case, it was just a "*Maybe* don't play this anymore because of the private parts". It was neither a command nor an outright ban (i.e: "Don't play this anymore"). If HoloEN just suck it up and stop playing it, it's partly on them. Nothing prevents them from telling their dumb manager(s) "Know what? HoloJP has been playing it. Get the game banned across the company and we will stop. Until then, GL and fuck you".
HoloJP has grown. Even someone as passive as Lamy got her manager replaced when she wanted to. It's time for EN to do so as well instead of blaming their circumstances since the management isn't going to change anytime soon without the girls' push back.

>>50453086
>I didn't feel like streaming but my manager told me I should
No girl would ever say that so you only hear the opposite story if it ever happens.

>>50451860
>Kiara in the thumbnail
This bitch said in her first 2-3 months of streaming that she wants to play certain games and, to quote her "I DON'T CARE WHO'S GONNA WATCH IT!".
I think she talked about fire emblem at the time, but then she proceeded to play a bunch of boring as shit JRPG's when she became Namco's ambassador, which literally killed her numbers in the long run.

>>50452795
>is gura’s manager just perpetually walking on eggshells bc of her fans?
Is 100% this. Marine had already played that game and she even called attention to the penises, and nothing happened. Calli, Kiara, Korono and Miko have also played that prison break movie game where there is also a scene with a visible penis and nothing happened.

>>50451860
>>50451921
This

>>50453086
It's not a factory job you moron.

>>50451999
This doesn't bode anything for EN's management, it just means Gura's manager is fucking retarded. Bae is ballsy enough to tell her manager to fuck off. There would be zero repercussions if they just ignored them and continued playing instead

>>50452033
Are they fine with the blood and gore but peepee is where they draw the line?

>>50453302
So she did exactly what she said she was gonna do? And what does this have to do with topic anyway you fucking retard

>>50453390
That sounds actually like Asian (minus Chink) standards. No sarcasm. Sex and sexual matters > violence and gore.

Bae choose the genital Jousting because it was crude. Outlast trials was chosen as the Collab game cause the girls liked the gameplay the male genitalia in the game are incendental. The only reason kiara got given a double standard by management is cause she is not in the clique that bae, Mori, kronii ,ame, and tempus are in.

>>50453364
Regardless of how retarded management is I will give them credit that they seem somewhat flexible when it comes to this shit, the Outlast thing wasn't even a "you can't play this anymore" ban it was just a suggestion

>>50453528
You tell em sis!

>>50451971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALVcU9Gb2nM

Or the TLDW/R
>Get a message from management mid stream to maybe not continue playing Outlast
>Even though Gura actually enjoys the game
>Even though Genital Jousting is more grotesque and gory, despite being seen in a more lighthearted light
She called out the double standards

>>50453468
It means that management's interventions are good and if the girls were left to make all the decisions, their performance would be in the shitter, retard.

>>50453086
a good manager would also tell the talent to stfu and stay in character on camera at least

>>50453315
Gura played the prison penis game with Ame

>>50453528
IRyS played that without any issue either. Heck, she spent a bit of time laughing at "PP boys" in both the previous Outlast games and her recent Outlast trials.
IDK, just looked like one or two EN managers over-reacted and decided to be safe than sorry. Shouldn't be a big deal for HoloEN to go against that if they are willing to.

>>50451860
as far as i know thanks to what some holos said they change managers quite often, thats actually really bad, there is no way to develop long-lasting projects if they keep changing employees, plus that can actually scare away sponsors.

>>50453615
>banning a huge buff game that Gura (who doesn't even want to stream anymore) actually enjoys is good because.... uhhh Kiara has bad numbers
Discord has rotted your brain fucking retarded tranny

Wait, I thought restrictive management that tells the girls what to do and not to do is good?

>>50453713
>as far as i know thanks to what some holos said they change managers quite often, thats actually really bad, there is no way to develop long-lasting projects if they keep changing employees
As far as we know, the managers don't really play much of a significant role in developing any of the girls' projects.

>>50453723
/vt/ has rotten yours, triple retard.

>>50453731
They aren't being restrictive though, or else they would have banned Bae's disgusting dick game.
And if it's between banning that + outlast or allowing both, I'd happily bite the bullet and accept both as banned.

>>50453615
Numberniggers should be gunned down in the streets

>>50453794
Why? No one is going to play the genital jousting game regardless

>>50453606
https://youtu.be/Va6h2Jp62yQ
Miko said the game is straight up banned now.

>>50453731
It is. It's just EN (or more like, Kiara) throwing a hiss fit because they are too lazy to argue for themselves. Even so, it's still better than management doing virtually nothing like, well, other groups'

>>50451999
SOMEHOW, gura is still waiting for pizzatower perms to this day.

>>50451921
Why didn't homostars JP result in the downfall of hololive before sidebranches debuted?

>>50453771
>planning which game to play the next week is totally not a project
are you retarded?

>>50453801
Fags that negatively affect other girls career crying about numbers because they got upset by 2021 HoloEN decline should unironically rope.
You were the same fags cheesing about gura karaoke getting 100k

>>50451860
Why do those girls forget that their managers can give them guidance, but not orders? They're the stars, managers are nameless tools to be used.

>>50453731
It is but not when management themselves go full retard
EN management does not stop the girls from self-destruction (this is where they should intervene) but does put a stop to normal gaming streams the girls want to do (this is where management should let them do their job)

>>50453473
Ah the American standards. As a euro I say give me boobs and sex in my media and keep the blood and gore out

>>50453846
Kiara never wanted to play this game anyways, retard.

>>50453904
Yeah, potentially banning this game while allowing Kroniis behaviour is absurd and the clear issue of HololiveEN

>>50453841
>Holo-Management

>>50453869
good question I have no idea, ask 5ch or wherever the JP fans congregate and post the answer here I'd like to know as well

>>50451860
Once again I agree with Kiaras take.
>A lot of the pp game is worse, especially for men.
etc

>>50453846
Kiara said in that clip hey maybe no more of that game during her stream. Do you expect her to stop her stream and argue with her manger while she has her stream going? And she does make an argument in the clip by saying bae got to play genital Jousting and that game whole appeal is the dick thing. Outlast having dicks in the game is incidental and not why the girls choose to Collab in the game.

>>50453841
fucking lame if true. fubuki has been having a good time with the game so I hope they’re not 100% banning it

>>50451860
I don't usually watch Gura, but from what I see, she plays some obscure games.
it means that she's only motivated to stream if she can play the games she's interested in.
but it seems that getting permissions is slow and hard for them. they also play it too safe.

>>50453877
Are you retarded? Who the fuck call their day-to-day streams "long-lasting projects"?
Heck, even if you want to count those "long lasting projects", Holo managers don't get involved in planning streams either. The one that might influence those streams is the UPPER management - who decide what might or might not be safe to play, and those don't get changed frequently unlike Holo personal managers.

>>50453869
Because they released JP3 soon after

>>50453961
Yes exactly
Management should have hit Kronii with a suspension and forced apology on return after she burned 75% of her audience. It's crazy that they decided to completely back her up on that issue and even endorsed her behavior going forward
Sometimes I think management is not even aware that those viewers are the ones paying for their salary

>>50454089
>all 5 unicorn friendly
>bring the company to a new level
Where's our 3rd gen?

>>50453947
I never said she wanted to. What I was saying was that if Holo members really want to play that game, they could've fought for it.
If they just accept the suggestion, either they don't care about it too much, or are too lazy / spineless to argue for themselves.
Marine said it - if you don't like something from the management, you should prepare your arguments and go against them. Holo members can actually push their lines pretty far if they want to

>>50454027
Come one, faggot, don't dodge the question.

>>50454089
That makes no sense.

>>50453364
>zero repercussions
when Occam’s razor says it's Bae that caused this

>>50454191
How does it not? First two Hololive gens didn't make much dent.
They then released Holostars. They were worse.
They then release JP3, the golden gen.
We now have the Hololive we know and love.

>>50454195
>Caused
I'm pretty sure Bae's manager was also telling her not to play the game but she did it anyway and nothing happened

>>50454191
>Come one, faggot, don't dodge the question.
I answered that as directly as I could
I don't know about JP circumstances because I don't speak japanese, if you want to know about JP stars ask the JP fandom

>>50454263
Yeah maybe because managements job is to bring snacks, make sure they get perms and not call their fans little faggots

>>50454323
step 3 is impossible for western women

>>50454249
Hololive didn't take off until Gen 4.

>>50453869
StarsJP was not allowed to collab with Hololive for much longer than two weeks (someone else should know the exact time frame. It was several months if not over a year).
This gave them plenty of time to build their own audience/leech off other corpos rather than being rushed out ahead of even the standard collab ban like they were trying to integrate into the HoloLIVE EN fanbase

>>50451860
One of management's responsibilities is to ensure the talents do not get banned or demonetized. If YT, or any other platform, decides to arbitrarily say that this game about cartoonish DICKS is allowed but this game that only briefly shows realistic COCKS isn't allowed then that is the framework under which they have to play ball in. It's not mangements fault in so much as how ludicrous YT can be about these things.
Ultimately, it's in managements best interest to serve and protect the girls but not at the cost of being too overbearing.

>>50454358
Nah, gen 4 had strong debuts because they blew up with gen 3

Does Bae have some dirt on some Cover higher up? She's got a ton of special projects just recently and has special permissions than others in EN and even JP. And yet she's still on the lower end of #s so it's not like she's earned this special treatment, you would think someone like Gura would have more leverage than Bae.

>>50454035
She didn't need to. She, or HoloEN, or Holo in general can always argue for the game if they want to whenever they have spare time - if they want to do it. It's not like the management told EN girls to stop the collab mid-way.
Heck, Kiara offered an explanation herself in that very clip, right after her "kinda double standards, don't you think?". Dramafags just skipped that and focused her "Kinda double standards" part for some reasons. She said perhaps the difference in treatment between two games (Outlast and PP jousting) was because Outlast looked a lot more realistic and YT is stricter towards that - which sounds reasonable enough regardless whether it is, or isn't true (and yes, I know there has been Outlast dick clips on YT for years). She realized that it's not like they gave the suggestion without reason, regardless whether it might or might not be flawed

>>50454414
Maybe a mel situation, Bae being a child has it's disadvantages

>>50454381
That could be said about anything anon. YouTube might arbitrarily ban adult animation content and that would destroy the whole vtuber scene.

>>50451971
we dont post frogs here sir, /v/ might be more your speed

>>50454414
Gura definitely has way more leverage than Bae. She is just too autistic to pull those leverage.
It's not like the management OK'd every single of Bae's ideas without a second thought. Bae was willing to negotiate for it, while knowing Gura, she probably just mumbled "I don't like this...but...okay..." and let it go when her manager told her it might be hard to do what she wanted to.

>>50454381
I don't understand how people can't understand this simple concept thanks for being the only sane person here

>>50453841
I don't get it, her A Way Out stream has not been edited and that has actual human penis

>>50454249
>First two Hololive gens didn't make much dent.
You are actually retarded and probably a regular in the number thread.
This point is especially stupid since Myth is supposed the even better than gen 3.
>They then release JP3, the golden gen.
Nothing stopped gen 3 from collabing with the stars. They could have done it at any moment if they wanted to. Them being new or "the golden gen" doesn't mean shit.

>>50454295
If you're being genuine then I'll just have to be direct with you. It's not Tempus that killed EN, it was EN.

>>50454517
It's not arbitrary. They use existing cases where tons of genital jousting are left up played by popular YouTubers

>>50454654
Homobeggar seething.
What I said was true, you admitted it and still spew nonsense regardless.

>>50454618
It's way easier to shit on the management than to accept that while management is bad at times, EN girls aren't all that blameless either

>>50454407
The debuts were what made them blow up. They realized that each gen was accelerating more than the last. That's why they pushed for more and more debuts from 2019-2022. Then all the new gens started to stagnate faster, so now Cover is currently reevaluating their business strategy. That's why the rate of debuts have been slowing down and their pushing for more concerts, animations, and that HoloEarth project.

>>50454582

>>50454701
Sorry, I was there. The debut had high numbers because Hololive audience had already grown because of Gen 3 and Gamers

>>50451860
Kiara makes shit up for attention, stop sucking her dick.

>>50454654
>It's not Tempus that killed EN
wrong plain and simple

>>50451860
Its no wonder no one wants to stream when all that you are allowed to stream is cartoony children's games. Everytime Gura gets interested in some game they ban it. Remember her Haloween watchalong that they gave permissions for then immediately told her to remove?

>>50454670
And everyone is playing Outlast just fine right now. All the Outlast games have had nudity before too and everyone has been playing them for years. You can find titties, pussies and dicks on YT right now. Unless you upload straight up porn nudity has never been automatically pulled down on YouTube.

>>50454414
I think it's just a matter of Bae being more headstrong
Gura will do her best to avoid being confrontational while Bae is willing to go out and push for her projects

>>50454734
No you weren't. I was there. You're just gaslighting.

>>50454654
>If you're being genuine then I'll just have to be direct with you. It's not Tempus that killed EN, it was EN.
Not really convincing when EN's viewership took a dive right after Tempus's announcement and, not only never recovered ever since but has reached new lows as well. While they weren't on par, they were at least on similar trajectory to JP before that.
If it was just a coincidence, then it was a weird one

>>50454414
No you dramafag, Bae grinds herself to the bone to get stuff she wants. It's all a result of her own efforts of reaching out that someone like Gura is not willing to put in

>>50451860
Of course !

>>50452700
>Bae playing Genital Jousting was clearly way over the line and I agree with pulling it back to that line.
Yet it was the most watched non collab or event stream for anyone not named Gura in how long? Western audiences want the Vshojo esque streams and not the puritanical shit other Holos produce.

>>50454370
They were allowed to collab with anyone following the same rules as hololive.
UPROAR also had a shortened collab ban and even got their 3D and new outfits much earlier than they should have.
They should have killed JP by now by the same logic that's being used for EN.

>>50454828
>I was there
If that was true it wouldn't be possible to "gaslight" you about it you mongo.

>>50454263
There's a thing called chain of command, in the bigger picture Bae's manager is not by any means the be-all and end-all

>>50454914
You are just making excuses for the rest of the girls being too pussified to tell management to fuck off

>>50454691
Literally the opposite, cuck. Nothing you said was true. It doesn't even make sense.

>>50451921
fpbp

>>50454965
How does it not? First two Hololive gens didn't make much dent.
They then released Holostars. They were worse.
They then release JP3, the golden gen.
We now have the Hololive we know and love.

>>50454894
What are you even saying now? Do you have brain damage?

I broke the homobeggars

>>50454751
Nobody forced your favorite whore to collab with the men. It's all on your whore for being a whore.

>>50454803
I don't know if they actually banned them from playing or advised against it or if risks demonitization

>>50451860
>Is management responsible for EN's downfall ?

Completely?, no, but they have at the very least a 70% of responsibility or so, the other 30% being the girls themselves and their next-to-null work ethic.

That 70% though is nothing to ignore; no EN3 in so long, the gigantic mistake that is Tempus, TWO tempus generations at that, the mixed collabs, their absolutely AWFUL casting with Council, no game permits almost, Omega, etc etc

>>50455069
Oh hey, it's that guy that's obsessived about penis-havers and posts pictures of Pekora.

>>50454829
Tempus affecting EN is entirely EN's own choice. They are not at fault for EN collabing with them.

>>50455269
Seethe, I have images of all hololive members

>>50454891
NTA, but I'm willing to lose a few thousands "VShojo viewers" if it means keeping Holo away from that kind of "VShojo esque" images. The same reason why I hope HoloEN will never resort to Western / Twitch react kind of streams.
Bae's Genital Jousting did well, I won't deny it. However, it's not like other EN girls never came close to it on the "puritanical shit other Holos produce" either.
Heck, VShojo still can't beat HoloEN even with all the buffed Twitch magic numbers while YT has been culling EN viewers in bulk, why should Holo go for "VShojo esque" streams?

>>50453866
To be somewhat fair, apparently Nijisanji can't get the perms for Pizza Tower either, so in this one particular case, the retard with a fax machine isn't actually to blame.

This makes no sense. Gura covered up any penis on her stream. She did it when she played the demo too. If it's covered up I don't see the problem.

>>50454803
We don't know what information management is privy to so it's entirely possible that they received information about the game that led them to instituting a BAN because it wasn't worth the risk.

>>50455005
>First two Hololive gens didn't make much dent.
This is a complete lie. First hololive gens got into Azur Lane. You will now call me a chink or something to gloss over this
point completely.
>They then released Holostars. They were worse.
Your English is really bad so I don't understand what the fuck you're even trying to say here. Are you claiming that holostars were making hololive less popular just by existing? They weren't.
>They then release JP3, the golden gen.
Again, completely irrelevant to the existence of holostars who are supposed to destroy entire branches just by existing.
Gen 3 could have collabed with holostars lf they wanted to. They didn't, while EN did.

>>50455590
>Your English is really bad
Stopped reading there, not in the mood to argue with ESL

>>50452700
Who asked for fear and hunger?

>>50455632
Sorry, "American", but
>They then released Holostars. They were worse.
makes no sense.

>>50455683
British.
It makes sense.

>>50455697
It doesn't.

>>50455816
Aye, because you're an ESL

>>50455542
Watching multiple POVs, it seemed that gura only covered up cutscenes that didn't have nudity anyways, but showed the nude enemy since there was no time to censor.

>>50455884
So hololive gen 2 was a failure according to the british ENfags.

>>50453390
How are you 20 years late to this fucking arguement?

It'll continue to loop like this until you're dead. Nudity bad, violence okay. Same in Hollywood.

Anyone acting surprised should think before they post, for a change.

>>50455995
Where was that word used? I didn't even say they provided little value, just that they didn't make the type of impact that is permanent. A dent.

>>50456081
But they did.

>>50453615
If it was up to Management, literally the only games they'd be allowed to play is Minecraft, Phasmophobia, Clubhouse Games, Chilla's Art, and whatever indie game the retard has decided to dripfeed to them this week.

>>50456155
Right so they got some viewers from gacha, FBK had great meme videos and Aqua was chinks darling.
We still aren't at 10k streams by this point.

>>50453315
and lots have played Outlast itself, which let's not forget featured penises in a number of places. Not watching the OP clip, but if it really was management's reason for shutting Trials down, it's a VERY out of left field thing
>>50451999
>>50452840
>>50453364
To be fair about the Bae thing, they apparently had the perms for quite a while. I can imagine her asking management, them taking a cursory look and seeing "le funny game with cartoon penis characters" then greenlighting it without knowing QUITE how depraved it actually was. When they saw the perms were already there, they didn't question it too much. I know I was caught off-guard by all the spurting, penetration, dildos, sex etc. At a glance I thought it would just be suspiciously shaped character solving puzzles or something

>>50456267
>it's a VERY out of left field thing
It absolutely mogged their homocollabs

>>50456236
So not getting 10k viewers every single stream means you haven't made "a dent". What a joke.

>>50456358
Aye but it's even less than that, 3rd gen debut had how much CCV? Their first week of streams had how many viewers?

>>50451860
Yes and this has been stated multiple times.
People who suck up to management do not think.
>shit at getting permissions
>getting in the way of girls playing shit they want
>shit at approving their original ideas
>shit at approving their projects
>never planning any special collab event
>never releasing special holyday themed content
>never promoted any good projects
>failed to care for the girls emotional needs
>let the girls burnout
>so insensitive they actually hurt the girl's feelings several times
>shit at approving collabs outside the company
>greenlights two male gens in a row
>two years TWO YEARS stuck with only 10 streamers, maybe 6/10 actually streaming at a time
>did not properly separate Holostars from Hololive, instead tried to merge them

HoloEN and HololiveJP were at a similar point when EN debuted but since then JP has only gotten bigger, more new members, higher peaks, even the low members have gone up, many of their low or mids have entirely gone up a tier. Subaru became a powerhouse, Azki rose higher than ever.
What does HoloEN have to show?
Their aces like Gura, Mori an Kronii have lost around 50% of their audience. Many others have losses too. Ina, Mumei and Fauna might be the only girls still doing well.
Management let Ame implode herself with her ego and terrible PR. They pushed Kronii towards her own self sabotage.
>but but pandemic
Across the board vtubers have grown since then
>but but japan!!!
the rest of the english speaking world has more people than japan even accounting for japan's higher proportion of people who'd like to watch anime girls
NijiEN was having a very strong consistent growth as well and they also imploded for their own separate reasons.
Vshoujo sort of imploded now too, but up to that point it was actually doing great, the members individually are doing great. The company just split.
Is that a big W for HoloEN ? Having stagnation and decline but not as much as the closest competition who is splitting itself apart or caught in controversy after controversy?
Indies overall have grown, small corpo have grown.
The market overall has grown. HoloEN hasn't.
There's this misconception among small corpo fans that if HoloEN was gone all of those fans would flock to small corpo but that's not true, some will do it but many will just quit vtubers entirely and we might be seeing that.
Where did the 40k Gura was pulling go after she quit streaming? Many went to Yuko, sure, but she's not pulling 40k.
Where did Mori's 30k go? Where did Kronii's 20k go?
Not to small corpo or indies, not even Nijisanji, they just quit.
Council was gimped at its birth by a horrible marketing that teased and blue balled fans and provided vague cryptic shit instead of just presenting the new gen. The theme was so complex and messy and with such a thick kayfabe it was not fun. Another failure of EN management, but at least they realized that and with Tempus kept it much more simple.


My point can be summed up very easily, HoloEN has the monopoly on most of the market and all it takes to succeed is putting the bare minimum, not rocking the boat and being consistent. And management wasn't even able to achieve that.
Its actions and inactions have been partly responsible for a roughly 50% decline on HoloEN's value, an economical value for Cover but also a sentimental value for the fans that have been let down.
HoloEN management is a strong candidate for one of the most incompetent jobs on the entertainment industry.
A lot is said about the talents themselves, they are put on display and compared. But not enough is said about the management. Even random small corpo management are better than HoloEN by miles.
HoloEN could be such a massive powerhouse, on par or greater than HololiveJP if the management wasn't shit.
Imagine if we had:
>girls that stream, appreciate their job, audience, company and understand their market
>consistent on time release of new girls emulating the release rate of HoloJP until it achieves similar numbers.
>proper approval of games, collabs and projects
>a variety of fun events, specials and projects regularly
>proper separation of the branches just like in jp
>competent marketing and gen designs/themes/concepts that are actually fun

This is not complicated shit, if small corpos with the budget of a hot dog stand can pull it off a company that can make its own MMO should be able to handle it too. Money isn't the problem, it's the human factor.
Cover should just replace all HoloEN management entirely.

>>50456408
Not 10k. They didn't make a dent.

>>50456443
Exactly, it's in Covers report if you want to see the exact numbers.
Gen 3 was the reason Hololive is where it is.

>>50456439
Cover should graduate the EN branch instead.

>>50455314
Of course pekoschizo will have images of other holomems. He always false flags and deflects with other holomems after all.

>>50456499
>Gen 3 was the reason Hololive is where it is.
How? We just established that they didn't make a dent.

>>50456575

>>50451860
I'll let you know when EN's downfall occurs.

>>50453615
This is a dumb fucking take. The whole point of the agency is to have many niches covered. It's called cross-promotion. Having everybody make the same content means they compete for the same audience rather than drawing many different audiences for Cover to pool together for marketing. Kiara was absolutely right to pick a lane, some people want to watch an EN idol play an Atelier game, now Cover has captured that audience.

>>50456589
We just established they did since they had low debut numbers and grew it to become the most popular vtuber company.
One member is literally the most popular female streamer in the world

>>50455005
>First two Hololive gens didn't make much dent.
Each new gen was more popular than the previous one since the beginning, and Aqua was their runaway star who made Hololive one of the top dogs. "Nijikiller" was a thing before gen 3, you know?
>They then released Holostars. They were worse.
Holostars didn't affect Hololive's popularity one bit.
>They then release JP3, the golden gen.
The "golden gen" was nothing special at first. What made them the golden gen is Idol club's implosion which caused all their unicorn fans to seek refuge in Hololive and gen 3 just happened to be the shiny new toy.
Their newfound audience was also the reason why they started larping as idols.

I really miss late early 2020 hololive, before this. What a truly terrible fanbase.

>>50456734
>Holostars didn't affect Hololive's popularity one bit.
They were worse than the performance of previous gens, not worse as in makes hololive worse

Gura avoiding being confrontational?
The same Gura that dedicated her Karaoke to Coco during her suspension. The one that placed Taiwan in the game of Bully during the controversy? And for some reason unable to play the game again? I miss Red Gawr. Also forcing her loli daki for months?
Let's be real here. Bae playing Genitals was kind of tame. Gura playing it would have been very yabai. It's not just Gura, but her fans. Gura uses fart noise to play the Jewish song, and her fans are spamming the chat about it being the bankers theme and saying Kanya West did no wrong.

>>50456439
didn't read lol

>>50456652
>One member is literally the most popular female streamer in the world
This is a hilarious point because to believe it you also have to agree with Pekora being the only truly popular member of her gen even though they're supposed to be "golden".

>>50451860
Where was this manager when Axel was feeding his manager a dick cake he baked for her? These Japanese shit manager don't understand the rest of the world doesn't operate like they do. No wonder these girls are becoming irrelevant when shit bag like them are in charge of the chuubas success

>>50456788
>homobeggar shitting on Noel, Flare and Marine

>>50456601
WASH YOUR THING LOVEEEEE BRING YAAAAAAA SLING YAAAAAAAAAAA!
BUTTERS TORTILLA REMEMBER TREE NAAAAAAAH!

https://youtu.be/6mwr468Nk7I

>>50456589
Pekora is one of their greatest talent. Her early interactions with Miko were a staple of the company for a while.
Marine is one of its top talents too, she provides a suitable and tasteful form of lewd hag energy to the company.
Rushia was for a while their number 2 top earner, a GFE parasocial powerhouse and despite how repetitive her "jokes" were she still managed to be a very fun member of the group that was a reliable and consistent punching bag.
Noelle x Flare was a strong ship early too. Noelle has gone on to be a solid mid/high tier in the company.
Flare was always lagging at the bottom so not much to say about her.
But as a whole Gen 3 is the first gen that had some real proper unity, ignoring what happened later with Rushia, for the longest time Gen 3 was the gold standard for a top tier functional gen.
Gen 1 never had any unity whatsoever, even later attempts were a failure. Gen 2 didn't really, either. Gamers had some actually.
Of gen 1 and 2 some talents kinda lagged behind for on reason or another.
Gen 3 was overall a step up for Hololive.

>>50456760
>not worse as in makes hololive worse
Except when it's EN of course.

>>50456439
>Not to small corpo or indies, not even Nijisanji, they just quit.
Yeah it's called normalfag NPC's, these people weren't gonna stick around no matter what.
Japan has a core otaku base that is much larger than the world equivalent simply put.

>>50456863
HolostarsJP didn't prevent Hololive from debuting girls

Game is banned https://youtu.be/Va6h2Jp62yQ?t=24

>>50456843
>Marine is one of its top talents too
Not according to the top streamers chart.
>Noelle
Why are you writing like this?

>>50456928
Neither did homoEN.

>>50456990
645 days

>>50456439
For a mucho texto post this is very agreeable

>>50453528
You're so desperately trying to make Holo appear the same as Niji, lmao.

>>50456760
No shit. They weren't part of the Hololive brand and weren't marketed as such. And since they didn't affect Hololive in any way, they're irrelevant to the discussion.

>>50457033
the whole discussion is because of homobeggars, read it from the beginning.

>>50456949
What chart, what does it measure?
I check her often and she regularly gets 20k-30k just casually chatting with her viewers and produces very high quality music videos.

>>50456439
>HoloEN could be such a massive powerhouse, on par or greater than HololiveJP if the management wasn't shit.
This is why you ENfags get laughed at.
EN is just trash.
You were so smug shitting on JP in 2020 and now were here with you coping so hard you wrote an entire wall of text full of excuses.

>>50452700
>As shitty as management is, I'm happy with this particular trend.
Choke on a rusty shovel.

>>50451860
The homo lovers literally get special treatment by management

>>50457132
Marine would be number 1 if she streamed as regularly as Pekora.
But they are streamers and it is measured with CCV x length

>>50451860
>Everything good that happens is because of the talents
>Everything bad that happens is because of management
everyone knows that anon

>>50457019
Has nothing to do with homos.

>>50457254
Yeah and high energy bills has nothing to do with getting involved in Ukraine shit

>>50456828
How am I a homobeggar? Where did I ask for homo collabs?
I never shit on sny one from gen 3, I shit on your argument where you are using a chart that does not list anyone else from gen 3 to call Pekora "the most popular female streamer in the world".

>>50457254
cope seethe and dilate

>>50457335
It's objective.
Just because Pekora is number 1 doesn't make the other girls less impressive.

>>50457156
An excuse would be "HoloEN isn't doing well because the pandemic ended, or because vtubers are not popular outside japan"
This is the opposite it's an acknowledgement of the failures of HoloEN to perform to its true potential.

>>50457208
>But they are streamers and it is measured with CCV x length
That a fucking joke metric. You are not someone worth 30 bucks an hour if you work 20 hours for 15 bucks.

If I'm them I'd do more outlast streams, what they're going to do suspend all 4? These girls need to grow a back bone and go against management bullshit.

>>50457403
This is the sort of metric twitch promotes and it's what streamers who do 24/7 streams aim for.

>>50451921
fpbp

>>50456990
I normally think Tempus's impact is exaggerated by people on the board, however it does seem fairly obvious that HoloEN itself was sidelined by EN management in hopes of competing with Nijisanji for the global male vtuber audience.
>>50456439
I agree in spirit, but a few things need to be said. For one, the size of the global audience relative to the Japanese audience isn't what's important, but how concentrated it is. This shit is a niche outside of Japan. Here in America, how will you profit off HoloEN's influence, I would be shocked to ever meet a second Hololive fan in my city. Where will the promotions go, who will sell the merchandise, where will we go for concerts? Apparently all of the world's EN fans are expected to fly to Los Angeles. I can't do that. A market has no value if you can't profit off it, so the value in EN was to promote the main branch.

EN management absolutely could've done better though, sidelining HoloEN to try and compete with Nijisanji for the global male-vtuber audience was an awful decision, and the fact YAGOO apparently feels the need to sit in on meetings now is evidence that he feels they failed Cover too.

>>50457403
It's the only metric that isn't a joke.
Peak CCV? Made a joke from raids, Z's, assorted youtube fuckery. Can't even be reliable on sites like Twitch.
Subs? The most meme metric. Perhaps in other areas of content creation, more subs mean more viewership but that is clearly not the way vtuber viewers subscribe.
VoD views? You can watch for 10 seconds every 2 hours and be a unique viewer.

It's not just about CCV. Another streamer pointed out that VODs with the same amount of views can make different amounts from ads. The amount paid by sponsors can vary greatly. So attracting higher paying sponsors with safer content does make more money.

>>50457393
Acknowledgement would be admitting that EN just isn't good.
Them collabing with homos and not streaming is not on management.

>>50451860
Management does everything they can to screw over EN

>>50451921
Myth was the downfall of EN

>>50457537
Very true, all of those metrics are unreliable. Especially subs, I'm subbed to 1000 people, nearly none of whom I watch, it's effectively just a measure of peak popularity, how many people have seen this channel before, and considering everyone has their viral moment... HoloEN for example has so many dead subs because it just wasn't people's thing. Some people with a passing interest checked it out, subbed because they liked it, then left because it was too niche for them. Kobo's on her way to joining the same club
I feel an average CCV would be the best metric to measure by though. I'm not a numberfag so I don't know if any site collates that data, but taking an average would help balance out the exaggerated peak CCVs

>>50456770
She didn't dedicate that karaoke to Coco. It was 1 fucking song and she didn't dedicate it to her.

>>50457438
>24/7 streams
The biggest fucking joke of all.

>>50457537
>Peak CCV? Made a joke from raids
You are talking about hololive right now.
>Z's
>assorted youtube fuckery
Just use your brain and watch streams instead of being a mindless numbermonkey staring at charts. That's all you have to do to figure out how many viewers somebody gets.

>>50455951
I didn't see any penis. The big guy had pants on

>>50452225
...Ohhhhhh, THAT'S what the "doxx" part meant. Simply mentioning that they're real people with dads/brothers/exes, mhmmm.
...That's fucking deranged.

>>50457797
Average is fine but I feel like hours streamed is extremely valuable and people only put less value on it if their favourites don't stream enough

Why does Gura love playing a game that shows bug penises? Is she that addicted to dick in her cunny?

>>50457872
There is no value to hours streamed. It says literally nothing about someone's popularity.

>>50457981
It does, a ridiculous amount.
If they weren't popular, the numbers would decrease after time. Overlap would heavily affect them.
Plenty of streamers are doing long streams with no benefit.

>>50457510
The problem with merch is a skill issue, america has very efficient internal shipping and there are many ways to ship stuff to america affordably. There are even services that can manufacture stuff in america or in other places and ship it there in a decent time and good price.
The shipping cost of Cover's merch is as much as the products themselves and that's seriously insane, if the merch is supposed to be a profitable mass market product that's a legit failure on their side.
There is no justification for the cost of Hololive merch shipping and its delays. All the reasons are just problems that have solutions.
However the location issue is true, in Japan they can have a single big Hololive convention or a live show and expect people from all over the country to travel there for a day and that's just not possible in america, europe or any EN market.
But that's about it.
Everything else JP does EN could do too.
>>50457603
Why isn't it good?
Is it just your inherent bias against the very concept of english streamers under the Hololive brand? Or is there something wrong with the talents themselves aside from the easily preventable fuckups they've made?
Ame and Kronii fucked up big, Mori and Bae kinda fucked a little, Sana was just an utter failure that quit, Gura burned out and lost motivation, but Kiara, Ina, Fauna, Mumei and Irys all seem ok to me, maybe not as great as some of the best JP talents but that's just a very high bar to meet.
A lot rests on EN3. If they get girls that are on the level of the best JP has to offer EN3 can blow up and be massive again, if the they are on the same level as the current girls it might just stay more or less at its current level. Fresh new talent will at least attract people back into the group so it might still have a positive impact on everyone as a whole.
But if they are somehow worse or if they debut and right off the gate start collabing with tempus too they might do even worse.

>>50457872
Of course total hours watched is valuable, but if the goal is determine the success of a streamer in terms of gathering an audience/popularity/influence (the product streamers sell), longer streams muddles that too much. As an example even if Gura streams very rarely, the fact that she draws a larger audience when she DOES implies she's more popular than Kiara for example, which is easy enough to confirm in practice since Gura is the gen's mascot.

>>50458056
In your mind someone streaming 10 hours to 10k people is as popular as someone that streams 1 hour to 100k people.
That's retarded.

>>50457812
Gura said the song was for Coco senpai. You want to be literal and say it was just one song, when much of the Karaoke was Yakuza theme. I love the last song. Shows chat giving their respects to Coco.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDhQ25f9xMk

>>50458220
In your mind someone reaching 100k CCV after an hour of streaming means they had 100k CCV for their entire duration

>>50458533
When did I claim that? The point is that they got 100k people to watch in the first place. Someone that can't get that is simply not as popular and no hours streamed/watched cope changes that.

>>50451971
a fucking frogposter

>>50458736
You used an exaggerated example which was basically the implication.
Pekora FFX numbers are more impressive than her tournament numbers

>>50453046
Stars2 was leftover standouts from the Stars1 auditions, anon. They found enough promising homos to crap out another quartet toot sweet.
Either EN's standards are higher and they haven't found 5 good enough to make a gen out of or they've just been slacking on the auditions. Either way rushing EN3 to market just so that they could slot it between the homo surplus would've been a horrid idea.

>>50453606
It's a shame the chicken voice filters me so hard, because I don't know if it's autism of her being Germanic, but the lack of filter is based.

>>50458777
The example is exaggerated so that I can make the point using 10s.
You can still perfectly understand that Kaela, Koyori and Watame are not more popular than Marine if Marine doesn't stream enough on any particular month. Please go ahead and argue the opposite though.

>>50453390
It's illegal to show genitalia in Japan.

>>50458780
Is it true that there are just too many yab shitters applying and anyone worthwhile is just going indi because they don't want to deal with it? I would love to hear the kind of talks that happen in the back room when debating applicants at Cover.

>People are surprised management are retarded when they well acshually'd fuana when she said 4 players for among us is to little

>>50459354
Forgot the pic

>>50459034
I like peak CCV too.
Watched hours is just more impressive.
Context is added for both. Ofcourse it's less impressive if someone has streamed 1000 hours compared to someone else streaming 100.
Marine isn't number 1 because she doesn't stream enough, it's just a fact.

>>50454582
>we

>>50458780
>Promising
Anon 3 of them are already below sub 1k only bettel was legitimately a good hire but even then a single EN 3 member would have have performed much better than all of them combined

>>50453869
Because they were told to fuck off since day 1 and that was it they were a non-factor

>>50459420
This to me is like one of the biggest signs of their incompetence.
Yes, amogus is extremely fun, people love it, it brings everyone together. Let's have an amogus collab!
But 4 people amogus is like playing mario party alone, it works, but it's not fun.

>>50454829
Unicorn are always right.

>>50459165
Don't buy tranny narratives. ANYONE can play videogames with an avatar. Westerns aren't even required to have watched anime.

>>50459420
Holy fuck, I've never seen this pic before. How are you that incompetant that you don't understand why a chaotic game would be less fun to watch with a minimal amount of players.

>>50459683
Then it is not the existence of any given homo branch that causes downfalls. It was the EN girls that didn't tell them to fuck off.

Go woke go broke let cover fuck around a find out.

>>50460279
He's retarded. Wtf even plays among us with only 4 people there's no fun in that

>>50460279
its newish, from the EN/JP drawing collab

>>50451921
fpbp

>>50459477
>Marine isn't number 1 because she doesn't stream enough, it's just a fact.
I never claimed otherwise. I said hours watched is a cope stat that puts someone like Watame above Marine when in reality Marine is on the same level as Pekora.

>>50459565
Hey they ain't soothsayers. Potential for results doesn't guarantee those results.

>>50460653
It puts her above Marine in one metric.
Marine's 3D live has 3m views.
That's a metric she is ahead in.
Watched hours is still most important.
Watame is also amazing in tons of ways.
You might be able to say that it's clear Marine is the better entertainer but I wouldn't say it's so clear who the best vtuber is.

>>50455590
-First two gen are successful but did not make any big splash in the vtubing scene.
-They released stars but it went unnoticed infact JP retards bullied them.
-Jp 3 is released, they made a big impact even now some of the most successful members are from Gen 3.
The same gen also brought major changes into the company.
Back then if cover didn't debut JP 3 and instead put all their efforts into Holostars we wouldn't have pekora or marine hence Hololive wouldn't be as successful as it is right now.
But right now EN is doing entirely opposite. First two gens are successful but still lacking in content delivery so they should debut EN 3 to specifically remove those weakness instead we get two gens of Tempus which did not solve anything but instead caused a rift in the fanbase which used to be all unity otherwise. Then Cover did something retarded, they actually put all their time and resources into Tempus for a year and completely pretended that the problems within the EN doesn't exist and now as you can see they they have new problems on top of the old problems. The only saving grace is that their competitors are doing much worse

>>50460794
The metric is worthless between people who are clearly on different tiers of fame.
Your argument hinges on implying that Marine would definitely have less views than Watame if she streamed as much.

>>50451921
fpbp

These managers are sabotaging the girls because they're rejects. Imagine working for someone that should've been you. These bitches are just straight vile. If Kiara has any balls she'll stream the game again.

>>50460966
No it doesn't. You're being autistic. You can look at watched hours and see the hours streamed.
You get full context.
Perfect measurement of viewership.

>>50460931
>Back then if cover didn't debut JP 3 and instead put all their efforts into Holostars we wouldn't have pekora or marine hence Hololive wouldn't be as successful as it is right now.
They got equal treatment just like both genders of EN do.

>>50459420
Wtf is this real? Are they actually trying to sabotage EN?

>>50461058
You are still implying that Marine would end up below Watame even if she streamed more.

>>50461166
Marine isn't number 1 because she doesn't stream enough, it's just a fact.>>50459477

watch as someone in EN schedules another Outlast stream and all this inane screeching is rendered moot as usual

>>50461217
I never said she number 1. I said she is not below someone like Watame. You said she is because "hours watched is more impressive".

>>50461299
I don't know what gibberish you're saying.
It's clear from the conversation I never suggested anything like Marine would be below Watame if she streamed the same amount. I clearly said the exact opposite.

>>50461059
Then where is EN 3

>>50461356
You said Marine is possibly a worse vtuber because she lacks the "hours watched".

>>50451921
They also approved the ugly Irys model, thought Sana was a good idea at all, and delayed EN3 by at least an entire year. Pure incompetence. Hololive EN and Nijisanji EN both deserve to crumble.

>>50461149
>>50460279
Its from when bae accidentally leaked the sponsorship discord invite link. people joined it and obviously trolled it but since it was a temp discord it wasnt a really big deal but some people archived all the messages you can probably find the whole archive if you look for it

>>50461429
Why do you need EN 3? Wasn't Myth the greatest vtuber gen to ever grace hololive?

>>50452700
I feel the same, genital jousting was honestly not an okay game to stream, I don't know why management didn't step in when the first dick ejaculated inside another dick

>>50461497
Do we know if Omegatroon still runs things?

>>50453846
Kiara is arguing that genital jousting was over the line and that management is pants on retarded

Before Tempus the boogeyman was JP managers and holoX shilling.
Nothing is ever the fault of the girls.

>>50452062
Hmm.

Interesting point

>>50461496
When?
I said she would be considered the number 1 streamer in those metrics if she streamed enough

>>50454582

>>50451860
I really hope they don't bend the knee to this shit and tell this dumb fuck manager to screw off

>>50462309
Orders came from head corp.

>>50462465
So are they going to reprehend Altare magni and axel?

>>50461699
omegone

>>50451999
Management be like:
>Gura is enjoying herself?! Possibly inclining?! Oh hell no, not on MY fucking watch! Take that shit down right the fuck NOW!
YAGOO, who the fuck did you hire?

>>50451860
This statement is partly false. Everyone on the EN side is to blame for this, talent and managers alike. The main management shit themselves that EN's explosive success in 2020 went viral, they were afraid that the Japanese vtuber team would be completely overshadowed by their success. The Jp gen5 talked about how they were so jealous that they were sick of it. After that, the management put all their resources into jp gen 6, the difference in quality was spectacular compared to previous generations (I'm talking mainly about the characters, not the VA).
EN was neglected because it ran smoothly under 3 managers. There was no significant Yab.
The talents did their thing, they acted like an Idol because even though they weren't supervised all the time, they were afraid of damaging the company.
The EN2 generation no longer had such fears and this encouraged gen1 to neglect their duties. That's when the fan base started to shrink, because the Normalfags came to watch Idols, not Vcelebs who just do what they feel like doing. They look up to an Idol, who is an example to follow, but at the same time they look down on a celebrity, they watch them to be annoyed. It gives them the satisfaction of feeling they are better than these overpaid celebs.
And since then the fan base has been shrinking. Imagine if a large natural pond had dried up almost completely in 2-3 years, The holoEnBox has few fish and many fisherman. This is the reason why there hasn't been a Gen3 so far. The shooting star of the previous Gens would have prevented the new gen from being popular. They waited until Gen1-2 reached their most unpopular state

>>50462117
You said this about comparing Marine to Watame
>You might be able to say that it's clear Marine is the better entertainer but I wouldn't say it's so clear who the best vtuber is.

>>50461699
Kiara confirmed he's out

>>50451860
It's entirely self inflicted.

Fauna, Kiara and Mumei are doing just fine. Certain other talents who did certain other things are not. I would say it isn't coincidental

>>50463864
The only HoloEN that gets idol culture is Kiara. Fauna, Mumei and the rest are just streamers with anime avatars.

>>50463381
idk i don't watch stars to know if holo ban lists also affect them. they're probably letting it slide since it was green lit before

>>50453869
Because JP homos know how to behave

Meanwhile, to the surprise of absolutely nobody, Nijisanji is still able to play it, because they're not run by a bunch of retards terrified that their own shadow might send a copystrike. I mean, they ARE run by a bunch of retards, but they're retards who let their streamers actually fucking stream things, so they have that going for them, I suppose.

>>50463654
This is it. The ultimate ENfag cope complete with sufficient shitting on JP.

>>50464243
Their behavior is irrelevant when they don't get collabs to begin with.

>>50463819
Yes.
Who is better at using the model?
Which aspect of vtubing is most valued? Perhaps it is comfiness and not laughs.
I didn't say any definites. I literally said "it's not so clear"

>>50464490
You talked about hours streamed.

>>50462253
explain >>50454731

>>50464534
This is why I called you autistic.
There was no relation between that sentence and hours streamed.
It was literally a statement on which metrics has the most value for different aspects.
It's already been established that for streaming, hours watched is the best metric so I posed the thought of what makes the best vtuber.

>>50464265
Nah, I have nothing against jp, they acted quite logically. The jpgen's have been elevated to the 2020 En level. The mistake was that En alone was unable to stay afloat.

>>50464668
>It's already been established that for streaming, hours watched is the best metric
So are you claiming that Marine is a less popular streamer than Watame or not? She has less hours watched. She's not even top 10.

>>50464984
Im annoyed at you using Marine to shit on Watame.
I have literally said that if Marine streamed more, she would show up on those charts, number 1 even.
I literally said it's no so clear who the best vtuber is, I said that because you were annoying me with being a little faggot about Watame

>>50451999
We're gonna need an Omega Fred Flintstone edit stat.

Yes I know he may or may not still be there but still he's emblematic of the dislikable/tone-deaf side of EN management.

>>50465259
he's still there i can't believe people fall for the "he's fired" shit again when he literally debunked the last "he's fired" rrat by suddenly appearing again out of nowhere to shill tempiss2
at best you can make an argument that he got demoted to only manage holostars because he clearly had a lot of power before

>>50451860
yes

>>50451999
Nevermind the foreskin and urethras and shit, I clocked out once the narrator started describing a rectal orgasm in detail as a cock flopped around with a vibrating dildo up its ass. I'll freely admit I'm an otaku loser who collects all of the Goodsmile Hololive figures, but when they make Bae I'm not buying any of her shit

>>50465133
How am I shitting on Watame? I'm simply asking is Watame more popular than Marine because that's what your favored "hours eatched" charts say.
You seem very hesitant to give a clear answer for some reason despite claiming that "hours watched" is the best metric for streamer popularity.
This "best vtuber not so clear!!!" derail is just you avoiding the question.
Is Watame more popular than Marine? Yes or no.

>>50465502
I'm sure she's hurt that some random stranger won't be buying her merch boohoo. That'll show her!

>>50465522
You weren't saying more popular until recently and it's still not relevant.
You started shitting on watame right here >>50460653
Its nijinigger behave to holo v holo.
Just because Pekora is objectively the most watched female streamer in the world, doesn't mean Watame isn't amazing.

>>50451860
>this difference in replies to IPs
So probable half are legit replies or people taken by bait and the rest tribefags and catalog spammers bumping the thread. Am I right?

>>50454370
They could collab with anyone they wanted... provided they got invited first(Like by Aki, Matsuri, Fubuki, etc)

>>50463852
when? where? I want to see. Please link it

>>50465771
>3 to 1 ratio
Are you retarded? Is this your first board?

>>50456770
>Gura uses fart noise to play the Jewish song, and her fans are spamming the chat about it being the bankers theme and saying Kanya West did no wrong
Yeah me

>>50465693
>You weren't saying more popular until recently
I said it right from the start.
>and it's still not relevant.
So you are again trying to back away from saying anything concrete. What does your favorite hours watched stat present if not popularity? Answer.
>You started shitting on watame right here
Where the shitting? By that logic you're shitting on Marine by saying she is not number 1.
>Its nijinigger behave to holo v holo.
More deflection to try to steer away from answering the question.
>Just because Pekora is objectively the most watched female streamer in the world, doesn't mean Watame isn't amazing.
It also means Watame is more popular and successful than Marine because Marine is mot even top 10.

>>50456770
Gura can't be confrontational, she refuses to use social media. Cope.

>>50467616
Pekora is number 1 in hours watched

Pekora is number 1

>>50467676
>she refuses to use social media
pretty fucking smart desu

>>50467693
And Marine is below Watame. Just say it.

>>50466175
Here you go my friend https://files.catbox.moe/6onzn8.mp4

>>50467839
In hours watched, Marine is below Watame.
Was stated at the very beginning.

>>50467883
As a streamer and vtubet Marine is also below Watame because hours watched is the most important statistic. Say it.

>>50467944
If Marine streamed more she would be number 1, as previously stated.
The conversation will just loop sister, my argument has been sound and you have been shitting on holos the entire time to cope about a metric that is objectively the best way to measure how much a streamer is being watched because as you can see from the name
"hours watched"
that is what it means

I am surprised none have say mememe

>>50468035
But she doesn't and so she is not a top 10 vtuber.
Why are you so afraid of saying anything definitive and skirt around facts by proposing these what if scenarios?
>a metric that is objectively the best way to measure how much a streamer is being watched
It's literally not though. It can't account for actual watchtime from archives. It's only "the best" if you're a numberfag and obsessively compare everyone. It's really weird for you to be this attached to that "stat" since you're extremely hesitant to say anything but "Pekora number 1".

>>50468380
I'm not afraid of anything, the conversation will just not go the way you're trying to force it.
Everything I've said is true.
You can cope about it any way you like, you embarrassed yourself in front of 100+ IPs

>>50468538
You haven't said anything about Marine's current hours watched. Where does that place her? Is she less popular than Watame like the hours watched chart tells us?

>>50468632
>popular
Hours watched is hours watched.
Pekora is watched more than any other female streamer sister

>>50468678
Are you implying that some more popular streamers are actually less watched?

>>50451921
fpbp

>>50468821
Not implying anything.
The chart that measures hours watched is the reason Pekora is number 1.
Objectively measured, the best way we have to see performance

>>50468923
So Marine performs worse than Watame?

>>50469004
As already stated, she does not stream enough.
Sister are you ogey

>>50469027
So she performs worse.

>>50459477

>>50451860
EN managers are kinda retarded at times, mainly because they are thinking too much on not offending people at times which is fucking retarded, then when it happens by accident it turns out into a huge nothing burger and they finally loosen up just to tighten about something else.

>>50451860

>>50465581
I don't care about what she thinks, fuck her, but implying merch sales don't matter is retarded

>>50467868
Thanks! Not exactly CONFIRMATION, but seeing her dunk on him again is nice.