/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>49062085
>Easier way for people to join corpos and ditch them after getting big
Retard

>>49062148
provide a good service to your talents and they won't ditch you, retard

>>49062085
Me too
I want Rushia back

>>49062148
Sure but,
>30k$

im sure theres no self interest motive there as his most successful vtuber designs are all corporate

>>49062085
Of course he would say that, he doesn't want his children to disappear in the case one of them decides to quit the company. Not only him but I'm sure that's a sentiment all the artists share, Pako still cries every night until he pass out from exhaustion.

>>49062148
There's something wrong with your corpo culture if your talents are doing that.

he should mention that Patra is fucking rich and she could afford buying herself out from her mid-tier corpo
not everyone will be in this position

>>49062166
>provide a good service to your talents and they won't ditch you
But Patra ditched Nanashi....

>>49062085
He wants Aruran to leave homos and keep his model.

Why do people keep pushing that when every time it happens they run away with it. Some of them try to run away with their new found popularity to make more money anyway

>>49062287
Aruran leaving Holostars would be a suicide, guy is already barely holding himself even after a complete redesign

>>49062232
Kawaii proved this wrong since several of the other girls and the fans stood up for the corpo.

>>49062229
What do you want as the audience member?

>>49062148
Seem like a (riku) problem,
>>49062085
now a few pointer :
> legal nighmare
> for papa/mama it would be very beneficial, let's be honnest so his opinion is clearly biased.
>>49062186
> forgot the separation wasn't really in good term, while relatively cordial (seeing nijisanji) even if it existed you wouldn't had rushia.

>>49062232
Other possibility : there is a problem with people for doing that. Leeching without being a little bit reconaissant is not that good.

>>49062243
cos of corpo restructuring/incompetence
as that other anon said, they didn't keep their side of the bargain

>>49062148
Just sell the IP for a hefty sum

>>49062085
I agree

>>49062085
>which makes sense
doesnt make any sense from the company's point of view
look at vshojo, most of the company just fucking left because there was nothing keeping them there

>>49062186
Rushia don't have enough money to buyback her model.
Blame her terrible spending habit.

>>49062345
Joke's on him: I stopped watching Aruran BECAUSE of the redesign.

>>49062840
>because there was nothing keeping them there
Correct. Maybe Jewrun should've done things at any point in the past two years to give them a connection and a reason to stay.

>>49062229
if i was in holostars pako would be my first pick for an artist to design a new outfit if my og designer wasnt available

>>49062397
It's whatever, I'm sure I would keep watching them for a while if their content didn't change as opposed to now that I don't really feel like watching their new career pretending all those moments never existed.

>>49062946
yeah like owning their IP and not letting them take it and walk

>>49062085
>So the chuubas get all the IP transferred to them
Patra bought herself out. That's the option Lack wants.

>>49063038
corpocucks can't imagine any reason to want to work at a place other than literally being forced to stay or lose everything kek

>>49062243
>774
>Good
I'm kind of interested in how much more shitposting there'd be if 2020fags and newer /vt/ dramaniggers were around to see some of the more fun 774 moments back in the day

>>49063038
None of the people who left Vshojo would have joined in the first place if that was the case.

>>49062239
she does give that impression since she bought 100k yen kusoge and that gibson guitar but is she already a rich girl before or ASMR profit is that insane? isn't dlsite cut horrible?

>>49062085
This just makes me feel bad for Pako, he fucking loved Sana...now we won't get anymore delicious brown titties

>>49063143
the hard truth is if they're successful enough to go it alone, they would
if hololive allowed people to quit and keep their model many of them would have

>>49063295
>suisei will graduate any day now...
delusional

>>49062085
Promoting pump and dump schemes is pretty low, Lack-san. Why not stay indie and grow your audience as an indie?? Why join a corpo only to then months later leave with the borrowed popularity and clout from your colleagues?????

IF YOU ARE INDIE THEN STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM CORPORATIONS. THIS ISN'T A CHARITY. STOP LEECHING AUDIENCES THAT AREN'T YOURS. IT'S UNBECOMING. IT'S PATHETIC. that is all.

>>49062840
Then they should do their job properly so the chuubas want to stay. It's just petty and pointless to try to keep chuubas as hostages by not even allowing them to buy the IP.

>>49063331
hi henri

>>49063331
>>/vt/?task=search2&search_filename=1546663934528100136.png
jesas

>>49063221
Patra PL is kinda famous for her niche music

>>49062243
bro 774 just ruined patra's 3d concert some weeks ago

>>49063221
even if the cut from dlsite is bad, she's still number 1 and 2 of total ASMR sales on the website and keeps being nr 1 every year since the release
she's about to release a third pack too

>>49063326
many not all

>>49063347
if you are a successful vtuber there is little reason to be at a company no matter how well they do their jobs, because you could just quit and make much more money without having to give the company a cut, hire your own manager

>>49062148
If work conditions for chuubas improve is a win for the consumer at the end too. Imagine if a vtuber said "I was promised to have a 3D model and studio to perform, years passed and nothing happened, I want to buy the IP"
The corpo has to bend the knee in some way. Also they will be closer to be normal employees.

What's the benefit of companies holding onto the characters for forever? Maybe have a year waot period and then you can buy your model.

Shouldn't have fucked up her last live.

>>49062085
Poor Lack. I wish he would be my V-tuber papa if I were a chubba. He has been punished for too long for redesigns of his original Vtuber kids... At least Patra still has her model.

>>49063394
Delete that before the other Anons here catch on. Silly anonfag-kun.

>>49062876
same, the redesign killed his grey fox niche.

>>49063295
The advantage of a corpo isn't the income stream, it's the non-liquid benefits package. Having somebody else do the bulk of the paperwork and payments for stuff like health care, legal work, sponsorship deals, resource acquisition, and networking is REALLY helpful and the main draw to being in a corpo. Bigger indies will still have an indie manager or sign with an agency like Mythic to handle some or all of these things, because frankly most of it is a hassle and outside the skillset of an entertainer that already has 40 other things on their plate just streaming.
Obviously you should still make sure the talent is getting the bulk of the money for the bulk of the work, but people are underselling how much a good corpo taking a fair cut actually helps the talent despite the direct income loss.

>>49063779
the main draw of being in a company is you get an exponentially larger audience you idiot

>>49063829
Brand-based Exposure would fall under "non-liquid benefits", dipshit.

>>49063561
>if you are a successful vtuber there is little reason to be at a company no matter how well they do their jobs, because you could just quit and make much more money without having to give the company a cut, hire your own manager
This is true if you're a *huge* content creator, but there literally are no vtubers big enough to have a full corpo-level of support while solo yet. Just having a manager does not replace that level of support.

>>49063949
Ai... Forgotten...

>>49063939
no, making more money from a larger audience is pretty liquid

>>49063949
>there literally are no vtubers big enough to have a full corpo-level of support while solo yet.
there are plenty, a manager or agent isn't that expensive

>>49064028
She technically kinda did it but after she basically retired after going independent I'm not sure if it counts
>>49064132
>Just having a manager does not replace that level of support.

>>49064175
it pretty much does, aside from big brand deals that a large company would get, but you'd still be making more money as an independent anyway

>>49062085
Hahaha, no. The vtuber image is still tied to the company.
No serious company would risk having their name be associated with someone that can just say whatever they want.
Also "they built it up" is an extremely naive way to seeing it, as the managers and corporation also do a lot of work to make sure that the talent is "building it up" healthily and safely.

>>49062085
anything better than graduation

>>49064271
Vtubers gets more of their revenue from merch, not youtube views and donations.

>>49064405
that's right sister those virtual landlords worked hard telling those bitches what they can't say so they deserve everything the streamer has ever made

>>49064585
there's nothing to suggest that's true, and even if it were independents can still sell merch

>>49064271
>it pretty much does, aside from big brand deals that a large company would get
anon those big brand deals are the entire reason why people want a corporate backing

>>49064718
no, they don't earn them that much money

>>49064613
I see you are still extremely naive. Why don't you list all the things you think that a corpo does for a talent, and we check how dumb you are?

>>49064765
Fuck up their 3D live, suspends them for months over a joke on twitter, puts them in a banishment room, etc.

>>49064645
No, everything suggest that it's true. We had small corpo CEOs talk about how managing a corpo works.

>>49064937
Cover released a document that broke down their earnings
The thing that made them the most money was Youtube, then merchandise, then sponsorships + events combined

>>49064752
anon that's literally what content creators live on. have you ever watched a youtube video? they literally all have sponsored ads now. there's a reason for that

>>49062085
>they built it up.
If that was true, they wouldn't need to join the corpo in the first place.
Fucking underage retards with their blind idealism, I swear.

>>49065043
Depends, all streamers aren't equal, vtubers make way more from donations than a normal Youtuber would

>>49065104
yea as we all know hololive is what it is today thanks to the hard work of their brilliant managers
the talent played no part in it, they're just leeches

>>49063187
share?

>>49062085
that is stupud, nothing going to stop them from pump and dump. With IP you succeed or fail together, not run away at the first sign of trouble

>>49063774
I respect his decision because he was a literal ojisan character in a group of young pretty boys, but he really did have a unique niche and people loved him before hand. He seems happy with the change but it did seem to kill a bit of his fanbase.

>>49065262
Kekson is proof that without proper management support, she is just leech on par with Tempus.

>>49065262
If they are so great by themselves, then why did they even want to join a big bad evil corpo to begin with? It's almost like they want to leech from the success of the corpo.

Reminder that Cover, Anycolor, and SEAfags FEAR the unionization of vtubers.

Seize the means of (Hololive) Production.

>>49066245
>>49066251
holofans try not to insult their girls challenge (impossible)

>>49066342
This is true.
I support the rapid indiefication of the means of vtubtion.

Seeing more Kawaii gen 3 happening would be funny and I also want to see if any corpo is actually dumb enough to encourage the pump and dump scheme. It's such an illogical idea but somehow people here actually think it's a good thing. I guess if you have nothing to lose it's easy to advocate for, like people wanting free education etc but don't actually want to contribute their own money.
>corp provides model, assets, and other things
>join for a few months
>Well, I'm bored so I'm leaving and taking MY model with me. Thanks
Or
>I'm leaving the corp because of "creative differences"
>Thanks for the model by the way, I'll be taking it.

>>49067708
You do realize Patra had to buy out her model, right?

>>49067708
>encourage the pump and dump scheme
jfc
it's one extreme to the other.
there are middle grounds, anon.

>>49062166
Vshojo tried the retarded business strategy of giving them almost anything they wanted and they still fucked off and backstabbed each other after they were done pumping and dumping vshojo and each other. There's no point to running a vtuber company with that business strategy because women will fuck off as soon as they know they milked you for all you're worth. And your company will just be stuck with the debt.
Simple as.

>>49068712
Talent agencies like Vshojo are a tried and true business model that have existed for far longer than you have been alive, /vt/chama. The only issue that they ran into is that bigger agencies with more money got interested in the vtuber scene. This will eventually happen in Japan too, so get ready.

>>49069181
Yeah we saw how that worked out when Vshojo tried to poach NijiJP and HoloJP members.
Sorry, but only kson was retarded enough to take the bait. And look at her viewership now.

>>49069181
>Talent agencies like Vshojo
Vshojo hit this stupid inbetween ground where it was supposed to be a group and not a talent agency, but failed to do any of the things a group actually does so it failed at being both

>>49069312
>The shit we made up didn't happen therefore she is a failure.

>>49069312
Kson wasn't poached, nobody wanted her and she committed suicide due to insecurities over being a fat fuck.

>>49066342
I actually don't get what you retards think will happen even if a union is formed? What are they going to do, tell holojp they are being mistreated? Nigga that group of vtubers single-handedly dominating the whole YouTube gaming site the whole holoverse exists on a different plane of existance from all shitters all it's gonna do is create drama between litral whos like vshitshow and fall apart.

>>49069923
>fat
>he missed kson tummy
i'm so sorry for you anon

>>49063779
>health care
Unless you live in US, why would your company manage that?

>>49068712
People think women vtubers are different from 3D women for some reason. When they want to, women will give whatever reason they want to justify leaving and they are always in the right since there will always be people praising their every action. Just remember that the first thought that comes to people's minds when a women complains or has issues is that the other person/thing is always the one in the wrong and is at fault. Allow the pump and dump to become popular and we'll be seeing something similar to the Me Too where women do it just because they can.
The anime model is just too strong for some people I guess.

>>49063949
Then in turn you are too small to ever profit out of if your company is just medium-grade talents with nowhere else to go.

>>49070432
Workers who regularly switch jobs earn more than those who don't, vtubing is no different.

>>49070699
/vt/ tribalfags have deluded themselves into thinking that vtubing is not just a job

>>49067708
you're only saying that because the blue dorito is under threat of such precedence, but you'll cheer on it when nijisanji does it too.

>>49068544
Lets see, which is the smarter way to approach running a business?
Think about how someone you hire can fuck you over, use you, and ruin you.
Or assume people are kind and have your best interest in mind and would not fuck you over when they have a chance.
I'm sure a corp advertising or being know for letting their talents take models from a corp is a great business plan. They can just keep pumping out models after the talents leave once they make enough money to buy their way out right. People aren't that scummy right?
Stream for a few months, do a donothon, get enough money to leave, and then leave.

>>49068712
It seems you forgot this is not new, it was tried before by Kizuna Ai's Upd8 and we knew what happened

>>49064995
where's it?

>>49071081
>if you work at McDonalds you can just quit and leave without getting deleted from existence
>there are millions of those restaurants around the world somehow
please explain how that's possible, bussiness-kun

Get to the real question: how much did Patra pay for the IP anyway?

>>49070699
No one is saying switching is an issue. Switching but taking work equipment is the topic. You don't get to keep the company car when you leave right? Same thing here.
>vtubing is no different
Exactly. It's a job. Vtubing is no different. Why are people acting like vtubers should be able to leave with things that were not theirs in the first place?

>>49071484
I got to keep 2 shirts from my first part time job

>start a corpo and build it to become big then go indie
that's fine after all you built your fanbase along the corpos growth
>join a popular corpo, become popular then go indie
that's not fine, you are just a leech at that point that used a name of a famous company to get ahead

>>49071887
>Get a job somewhere and use that experience as a stepping stone to a better job
>the thing literally everyone does
>damn leeches!

>>49070904
They think the entire industry works like Hololive.

>>49062085
if you take a close look .LIVE is selling their rights to literally their top vtubers, they will probably call it quits and close the company in a few months or less

>>49071887
That's perfectly fine though. It's actually normal. Just don't think you are entitled to take the model and equipment that was never yours. Are you people that out of touch with reality?

>>49066628
>holofan
>Tempus
Anon you just retarded.

>>49072480
Hololive is popular because they hired talented vtubers. The girls made the brand. To suggest that omegalul and other faceless managers are actually behind it all rather than the girls is an insult to them.

>>49072552
Why you tag me?

>>49072617
readingcomprehensionchama...

>>49071081
there's this... what do you call it, phone service plan?
you use their phone service for several years, in exchange, they'll give you a phone (or you'll get the phone cheaper).
they can set up some goals.
if the vtuber can achieve those goals, they can own the model.
the vtuber will be motivated to work hard.
the company will also be motivated to give good services so that the vtubers won't leave even after they reached those goals.

>>49064865
sounds like you have a lot of hatred towards the corpo in general, why don't just take the /lig/ pill and stay away from corpo vtuber

>>49062148
Why would you NOT want to take as much as you possibly can from the company you work for? Boomer mindset

>>49071381
3 years worth of loan

>>49062085
holobronies, our response?

>>49074181
providing a better service to your vtubers and competing in the free market is bad
literally forcing them to stay with you due to IP fuckery is good

>>49063774
Same

>>49074321
>iterally forcing them to stay with you due to IP fuckery is good
Enough about Anykara, who bans its livers from doing any non-Niji-affiliated side gigs or, God forbid, treats Nijisanji as the side gig.

>>49072847
>corp help someone get big
>they get big and meet all the conditions to keep the model
>Still stays with corp
>Wants to do X but corp says no
>She can just leave now and take everything
Unless those goals are extremely hard to achieve to the point where it becomes pointless, your idea is extremely exploitable. That "X" can be anything too like wanting to collab with males.
Apply your idea to a big corp like holo and gura and other big sub count EN members. It would be easy for them to pull a Sana but now add in taking the model with them.

>>49065902
archive reps "camomi graduated" for starters

>>49074548
What if you'll need to buy your model instead of getting it for free?

Did people forget what happened with Cyberlive?

>>49074873
What about Cyberlive? It's a junk small corpo that nobody should derive anything meaningful from.

>>49063187
probably not that much since they'd still be retarded eops who never heard of 774

This kinda makes sense if they started off as an indie like Suisei or pretty much anyone in Vshojo

>>49062378
Kawaii is bad example since nothing really shady has been leaked. Now i have no idea how WACTOR and its general in this board still stands

>>49074548
>corp help someone get big
>they get big and meet all the conditions to keep the model
yes. if that someone gets big, the corpo is becoming bigger too.

>Still stays with corp
>Wants to do X but corp says no
>She can just leave now and take everything
yeah, sure. she can do that.
they can also put in the contract that the model can only be used as an independent vtuber, so that she can't use it and enter another corpo.

>Unless those goals are extremely hard to achieve to the point where it becomes pointless
It doesn't have to be extreme. It just needs to somehow reach the targeted overall profit for the corpo.
You need to remember that the corpo also gains fame and profits while the talents are still there.

I mean, what's the endgame here for the talents now? only money?
They can't announce to the public that they worked as a hololive member and they can't keep the model.
That's why some of them are just de-motivated. They'll just do the bare minimum.
No passion in it.

>>49072662
He's not wrong, do your reading reps or explain how you got to your point

Shouldn't kson have been fucking rich enough to buy the rights to coco?

>>49075882
It's possible that Cover wanted to keep the rights, or simply that Kson was happy to simply use her existing vtuber persona.

>>49071304
/biz/ is around the corner, but there's already a shop in ft worth that's completely automated, but the prices are rising and stores are closing

>>49062085
774 seems to be pretty good about this
Met left to join VSPO and got to kept her old identity too
https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Komori_Met
Bora/Tsuna (formerly niji kr) also got poached around the same time but she had to restart from scratch

>>49075613
How many chumbuds and Ayame fans watch other vtubers?

>>49075613
Let's use holo as an example with that model. Would it be a good look for the company if all the top streamers left? Even if it was on good terms. What does all that fame amount to if people like fubuki, gura, Ina, Mio, and all the other 1mil sub girls leave because they can? Think about the collabs and group interactions within holo.
Being known for something is completely different from currently being something. Just like bragging about winning a soccer game or something in highschool doesn't mean much when you're in college. You can only hold on to an image for so long before it loses its value.

>>49062085
Apparently Patra model and IP are worth 55k usd, a holo would worth at least 500k usd for cover.

>>49072050
Go into sales, have to sign contract to not take away customers away

>>49074994
They kept models

>>49075589
Wactor actual black company, but support talent

>>49076531
Where does it say that?

>>49076286
>Would it be a good look for the company if all the top streamers left?
If the company has a very good reputation, there will be more people who want to apply to holo. It's gonna make the stakes higher for hololive auditions.

>>49076286
You think all those people would just leave if they could? Hololive is literally the best in the business when it comes to vtuber idol shit. They periodically get free high production 3D concerts that cost indies well over $50,000 each, a free giant audience for being associated with the brand, sponsorship and merch deals, etc. Nobody would just walk away from that unless there were some very unusual circumstances involved. Unless something even better came up, which would benefit you as the viewer so I don't see what the problem would be.

From a corpo standpoint, this just sounds like a nightmare in terms of promos, advertisements, and maintaining your brand image.
For Hololive specifically, each member is pretty deeply integrated into the whole, which is part of why they have grown up to be so strong in the market. It wouldn't make sense for them to sell group events, sponsorships, etc if suddenly units started splintering off into independents.
Ironically Nijisanji could use this approach given how they don't really do group events or merchandise, but It seems like they would rather burn down a talent than let it split off.
And keep in mind if this were to work practically, a talent wouldn't be able to split off for X amount of time, and/or have to buy out the IP from the corp.

>>49076531
Holy shit, I would need to save for almost two years to get this much.

An obvious stance from an artist/character designer. Can't really commission more work of a popular character if they're graduated/retire instead of becoming independent.

>>49062243
I still hate the Nanashi for destroying Mimis and Camomis dreams, both for equally retarded and different reasons.
Camomi just wanted to be a hermit and do her drawing, not dance around like an idiot.
Mimi just wanted to stream on Twitch again.
I will smash his kneecaps backwards.

>>49070904
That's streaming in general though, hell content creation in video form.
Cunts think it is sitting around playing games all day and waiting for videos to render / upload.
Worse, they even seem to think this of Hololive and then cheer like the sub70IQ retards they are while watching pirate streams of their concerts, not realizing the immense amount of work put in to them pre-recording all these dance segments, doing dance training, vocal training, learning how to sing the damn song, learning how to both sing and dance properly at the same time, and in the cases of singing foreign songs, learning how to properly sing in that language without it sounding really fucking off.
Then there's all the meetings, thumbnail creation, testing out games, making videos of they do so, merch, events planning and so on.
These fuckers don't just sit down and be cute amino acids on the youtubes, it's a lot more involved.

>>49071887
Every subsequent generation in corporate is leeching off success of the previous generations.
Many vtubers have even brought this up, some of them even saying they felt awkward or they didn't deserve it, especially if they already shot right past the subs of someone in the company before they even fucking debuted.
It's a hard thing to think about in general.

>>49062085
Oh no Kson got to him too.

>>49075882
That's something I brought up in the chama thread.
We don't really know if she could or couldn't have done, she could well have just wanted to move on from Coco, or legally she couldn't have bought it. We'll probably never know which.
Likewise Suisei who was considering dropping out at one point, what would she have done? Did she do a silly and hand over rights of her old model like Mimi in 774 did? Or did she keep it? Probably not know any time soon.

>>49074873
Cyberlive was doomed for a lot of reasons, though.

>>49063774
Still dunno why he did it.

>>49075589
>Kawaii is bad example
anon a whole gen graduated at once, even if there's no concrete evidence it's not THAT big of a stretch

>Lack will no longer get work
RIP coffeeman. He's right though fuck these entitled black companies

>>49062345
>>49062876
>>49063774
>>49074392
I as well. Aruran was the only star I watched regularly. Now there's no one.

>>49075882
Can't buy something that's not for sale, but why is a thread about 774 talking about Kson anyway.

>>49083366
Apparently his merch sold better after the redesign. I say apparently because that's what I read around so you can take it with an entire mine worth of salt.

>>49062166
But is that more profitable than holding their IP hostage in all cases? Talking business here, not whatever subjective moral values you hold.

>>49069181
The problem is that vtubers mostly work with an entirely fake persona which someone else can own.
An irl talent can lose a particular job or role, but not her appearance - a vtuber can. And if corpos can get an advantage from owning the character and threatening to keep it when the girl behind it quits, they will try to own it.

>>49062085
Bump

>>49062085
Do you even care?

>>49075963
No, KSON wanted to keep the Coco character. It's one of her biggest complaints.

>>49100895
Yeah? Any shift in this direction is a massive change in how business is done in the vtubing space, and Lack is a significant enough voice to trigger chatter at least in the background.

>>49062148
>His oshi is a company
Kill yourself, there's plenty indies can't do that a corpo can provide so if they do choose to leave that means the corp really has to fuck up

>>49068712
Vshojo's problem is that they had no fucking industry connections so they were getting the girls barely anything in terms of sponsors (merch was negligible since the rates were laughable for the talents supposedly).
They're competing against Cover/Anycolor/Brave Group/774 inc and all the big indies with larger brand power in Japan.
In the west they're basically fighting with all the flesh agencies like OTK/OTV/100 Thieves/UTA (which IM is also signed to) and now Mythic.
Gunrun might've been one of the co-founders of Twitch but he was pretty much a nobody to advertisers.

>>49095481
IP is worthless as soon as the girl leaves, all it does is tarnish your brand to be a dick about keeping it (this is why the chinks are actually still mad at Hololive)

>>49101953
>merch was negligible since the rates were laughable for the talents supposedly
Source needed

>>49101434
>>49102044
Hey imagine this.
Cover is stupid enough to let radioactive garbages like Coco and Rushia girls to buy their model.
And imagine all the shit those girls did after graduation, but with model that is known as ex-Holo.

Imagine all of those Talent Freedom shilling with Coco model.
Imagine all shit Miguel, but this time with Rushia model.

>>49068712
Vshojo never gave them anything though? All of them were modestly big before they joined and were just fine as indies.