/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

I will NOT watch Rust

pi, protector of thread
she looks down on shitposters and bait-repliers

Hello crsisters i have a report to make

i was in shibuya with friends today in Beams (mens clothing store), then 3 bowl cut dudes came in, 1 in a cr jersey
my senses started kicking in and i stalked them to the second floor, all 3 were speaking korean
I really don't know cr members faces so i wasn't sure if it was fans or players, one guy was alone and so i asked if he was a member and turns out it was cpt and the 2 with him were mondo and mainy
Im going to the cr fes tomorrow so i told them im a fan and im looking forward to it tomorrow and their manager blocked me away so i couldnt take a photo or handshake
Cpt said thank you and after it all ended i remembered he coached JWB kekw
I dont consider myself much of a crsis but seeing them in person that close and talking to cpt was definitely surreal and couldnt help but get me excited

no sumire frame? she's online in Rust

>>47802581
You little fucking queer.

>>47802582
She is doing a boss raid with mabo

>>47802609
im a crsis as of today

Why is she talking to HIM

>>47802656
i believe this is called a booty call

>>47802581
Ras was there too, but he was ras strafing in your blindspot the whole time

>>47802656
>>47802677
who and who

Mimi rejected Astel invitation.

>>47802852
based taya

>>47802413
S E X
E
X

>>47802581
>I'm not a sister but...

Mimitaya watching two loud men (roberu and gamma) gamble

I look forward to everyone kneeling to Niu when she continues not playing Rust.

>someone snitched on this tweet https://twitter.com/Gsusart2222/status/1649020092896907264

Kamito would really love to get out of this gimupex and farm the 2.5k scraps he owes to Manta right now.

>>47803742
I'm glad I got the other version from fanbox before it was taken down.

>>47803742
ぶいすぽっ!の龍 works quickly.

>>47803811
now hoshikawa called him out on his singing
>you've been saying it for 2 years already

>>47803977
>Kamito wants everyone to forget turing love
>No one cooperates

>>47803865
yea I’m glad you got the other version as well so now you can catbox it and share it with the homies :)

>>47803811
its funny how obvious his mood deflated going from mario kart to apex

>>47804134
I already did that in a previous thread

>>47803742
The no lewds policy is just silly.

Random thought but did that NazuMimi Sweets Parade ever end up back up or is it lost to the void?

>>47802581
>their manager blocked me away so i couldnt take a photo or handshake
You could have had your friends help. It's just one guy.

>>47804601
Lost, as far as I know. I wish I archived it.

Omg towa and Astel is more annoying than rpr

Nobody could have predicted this.
Is the game even long enough to warrant 15 hours of it?

>>47805467
It’s just a front for their discord sex.

*boots up schizo*

At least Hal shoot at things and doesn't treat this as a dating app...

>>47805313
Cute.

How the fuck is Towa on the server but this slug finds his way into my Yui stream?

>>47805121
> towa and Astel is
They are.

https://www.twitch.tv/rprx/clip/RamshackleCourageousSheepTooSpicy-8Vz9X77DnyFCyqaZ
Today's RUST highlight

Nazu-pi finally using herbs she grew to create some sort of buffing potion

I never really noticed how much Sara’s viewers must dislike Chinshiri, she’s almost hitting 3 view tier for Apex of all things.

I'm laughing at Hal's group they're it's like watching S.T.A.L.K.E.R. shootouts coupled with their conversations and the radio calls.

>>47807215
What are her average views like? I don't watch hskw so I genuinely have no idea.
I figured she's more zastudan focused so she gets more views on those stream.

meanwhile it's real ocd hours for qpi

>>47805748
She has spent more time playing minecraft dungeons with him in the last few days that she has streaming.
Remember the early days when her streams would last 8+ hours? When it was difficult to keep up with her after 4 streams and 3 twitcasts in a day. Now all that focus is going into someone that isn't (me) and I dislike it.
At least stream it, as she did with Reid.

>>47808067
not your gf bro

literally who is this guy on about

>>47808067
i get it, but i don't think anything good can come from looking into it too much. something about purple women drives people insane though

>>47808238
I know. She could be married for all I care. But I want to see that marriage stream.

>>47808356
It's too late, I have already become a schizo.

>>47808238
Could have been Reid's though.
He could make her happy.

>>47808067
i never really get invested in any streamer in particular, and when you find yourself upset at this stuff anon its time to play smth yourself or start watching someone else
i know myself enough though that i know ill have this in the back of my mind any time i hear her voice, which almost make the "no males" rules seem reasonable, except that they all build themselves into corners with that idol shit

If Mimi joins Astel, i am done.

>>47808067
I'm glad my purple haired vspo that streams 8+ hours a day and is hard to keep up with isn't going down that path

Possible Sirandee collab tomorrow, Reid doesn't specify what they're going to play but since he hate Rust it's probably going to be Apex

why are males allowed here

how new

>>47808893
yeah only sisters allowed in this thread

Welp, Mimi joined Astel. Should I kill myself?

>>47808893
>>47808638
"no males" is wrong. Playing with the boys is a core tenet of vspo.

>>47808964
She's been playing with him for the last hour though?

>>47808964
Wait until rpr is there. then you can complain

>>47808893
>anon is a male
You said it yourself. No males allowed. Now shoo

>>47809015
where is he? i miss him

>>47809015
I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

>>47808964
she has been with him tho? even had a raid "date" with only them 2?

>>47808970
didn't mean it was good, i like the boys (except rpr), just kinda weird how i know i will never forget it

>>47809238
rent free

>>47809170
>"date"
you shipfags are so fucking retarded

I'm literally Daruma

>>47809558
How is the sex with Naraka?

>>47809493
relax anon it was just a joke because it was only 2 of them, i only ship people inside my head

>>47809714
who do you ship

>>47808638
this image is too sexual
now that i have secured it pls take it down

Uwa nazu...

>replying to vsai/rust tourists
You deserve to have a bad thread

>>47809828
Me and Taya

>>47809828
I ship myself with my wife Beni.

Going to watch Tororo till Astel goes away from Mimi.

>>47809828
Runa and Noah
Imagine the hatesex

>>47809828
qpi duke but basically any ojisan works well with qpi

we have unicorns in this thread?

geinin ryodan when

>>47810275
People have been in here coming up with ideal fantasies in there heads about Vspos never leaving their rooms at all for a while now honestly.

>>47810275
yeah me, If Beni has a boyfriend I'll kms.

>>47810441
I am beni she boyfriend

>>47810441
Well good news anon, Beni actually has a husband so you are safe on a technicality! I am that husband of course.

>>47810275
the original schizo isn't - he knows it's a fantasy but doesn't like that there's an exclusive membership tier which can't be bought and deprives him of content

>>47810089
Runa found out that Noah is actually a boy so Runa blackmail Noah for sex. In the end Runa is pregnant with Noah child while Noah is chained in Runa's basement

>>47810275
no, we just dont like rpr and astel, other males are fine. We love Tororo and shes always around guys.

>>47810531
Noah's tiny trans cock belongs to me.

>>47810531
I'm that basement

>>47810190
おじバブてぇてぇはあります!

>>47810380
i would actually prefer some of them to leave their rooms more

>>47810557
what's wrong with astel?

>>47810557
no, Astel is fun

>>47810557
I dislike kasen

would be nice of masanori or kamito join mnbd, but why astel and rpr of all people...

>>47810662
He belongs on the yewtree register the fucking danger.

>>47810662
he has towa and rpr revolve around him.

@me when Astel fucks off from mimitaya stream

>>47810762
>he has towa
Hey man he has to play games with his girlfriend, okay?
>and rpr
This part is pretty unforgivable though.

fuck astel the mongo is on Mimi stream again

people talked about clipping in the other thread, is the management involved in the personal clipping channels that they all basically have now? i only watched the Qpi one, but it always looked... professional? compared to the other "general" clipping channels

>>47810832
I did not @ you yet

>>47810862
he gone yet?

Toi's laughter is a treasure.

>>47810557
I like Astel if rpr isnt around him

>>47810709
anon, rpr isnt even here. its only astel party and mimi

rpr if you ever read this kill yourself you fat slug faggot.

Is mimi gonna join astel's team?

>>47811091
i dont think she will, shes just following his party for now

>>47811091
i rather have masanori join mimis team, he doesnt have a team yet.

Astel doesn't deserve his harem

he gone yet? what are they doing?

>gets downed
>3 bitches try to rescue him immediately
Damn I wish I was him.

>>47811091
It's possible if Noah and Deron keep being inactive

Astel definitely walks past primary schools on his way home.

>>47810853
i don't think they're currently involved in the qpi one given how she talks about it. think noah probably has someone do her shorts for her though

>>47811091
Nah, they just play duo raid since both their party is all offline and have no one to play with.
Toi and Nana went online so they take them along.

>>47811274
their coah is supposed to join them soon.

kek

>>47810375
never

>>47810638
>i would actually prefer some of them to leave their rooms more
Same here. They all need a healthy meal, some sunlight, and exercise.

>>47810514
The only way I can get into that tier is by becoming a pro valorant player. In a few years, maybe I'll make it.

>>47810531
Runa wouldn't blackmail Noah. She obviously has her ways of getting into peoples heads (I know she's in mine). The crucial point would be that Runa would consume all of Noah's free time. She wouldn't be able to work, or see her family, or anything. Every waking moment, Runa would be playing with her. Until the moment Noah breaks - then Runa will move on to another victim.

After i heard this, i closed Mimis stream https://youtu.be/3E4-DPm9sCY?t=17247

https://www.twitch.tv/kaminariqpi

>>47812038 (me)
>>47810514
And thinking back to when coach Robeee was in the picture - he never really got beyond orbiter status. When he joined her membership, I think he got a callout in a mengen twitcast once and that was it. Whatever they had clearly didn't last.

>>47812218
Towa is naturally drawn to hags, she can't help herself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UQSgb_kaf0
To think that Tororo and Ritsuki would be the reason for this team being my favorite so far.

>>47812218
The Towa's mating call is designed to chase away rivals like yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xnq28h2zgk
Yufuna RPing as the dad
Ramuchi RPing as the problematic daughter

>>47802413
mimi... good gamer shit vtuber, she cant even handle otaku topics, idk why she decided to be a vtuber with such a normie values.

Nazuna fixing her automatic garden again. Home...

back to portal 2 even after finishing all the co-op chambers...

that guy is back on mimitaya stream fuck this

>>47814456
She’s probably the biggest normalfag in vspo.
Vtubing is just another job, otaku knowledge is preferred but not a requirement.

nazuna's place is autistic

Astel has left Mimi, i repeat, Astel has finally left Mimi. All is right in the world again.

BWAHAHAHAHA rpr latched onto astel AHAHAAHAHA

>>47816223
that whole clan is pretty autistic. wish qpi had joined almost anyone else. zero fucking chemistry clan

so all them wires and generators for a....water sprinkler?

oh god i take that back, now its Astel+rpr leeching Mimi.

jej mimi and astel just watch rpr and dito

>>47816452
You jinxed it

Mimi sounds like Towa. Just saying.

>>47817203
not even close...

Look at all these rpr anti in Mimi's stream kek

noooo please don't laugh at his jokes....

Remember when hinano antis were the biggest of this places worries? KEK

Tokoyami Towa

konyappi!

because of this fat fuck the whole team has to wait until he collected all his shit eggs FUCK

>>47817620
>w可愛い~、「やはろー、もしもし」

This group has nice dynamics until rpr came in

STOP

this is hell

It's over

YES GO AWAY FROM HIM

Mimitaya please go back to solo farming...

Ok you can unmute Mimitaya stream now.

I hope rpr dies of fan death in his sleep

fuck now it's asstel again

>>47817381
What anti? No one in that chat said anything against him.

Who was that mystery Mimi caller?

>>47820913
noooo! you don't understand! wanting rpr to get some sleep is typical anti behaviour!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/s3RLu8Tx2gI
Cute noah

>>47820974
Nazupi

>>47821203
she she graduating? Only did 1 game stream this week.

I fell asleep Mimitaya's still streaming. By the way rpr gone? Astel is fine but I hate rpr because of his limited jap.

kananose phone sex.

>>47821643
luckily they both gone, now Uruha and Yufuna gonna be in her stream.

Mimi wants to play ark again...

>>47821391
Last I saw she said something about going out with her mother I think

Kohaku's gone I go to sleb.

Just a reminder that rpr's twitter dms are open.
Just in case anons here want to larp as a jp viewer and say nice words to him.

Why does vspo have such stupid clipping rules? Nijisanji is superior in almost everywhere they are so lax.

this thread sure loves rpr huh

You're trying too hard. That goes for a lot of you guys.

At least it isn't about Hinano she doesn't deserve it.

>hinanofags showed up
what a shit thread

as a newfag who doesn't know too much lore, i don't get the hate. she streams often and gets along with the others. i liked some oreapo but it seemed pretty forced after a while so i'm glad it's dead now. what about this woman gets anons (or just schizo) so riled up?

>>47825172
I don't like that she has an established ship but still flirts with other male vtubers.

Look at this shit. This clip got 1m views only after 1 month. She never laughed like this with Kamito. To make matter worse it's that faggot astel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raloncTpCsM

does anybody have the rust map? kinda curious what there is to do on this one.

>>47825513
established? i like kamito but it's not like they're dating. it was obviously just business to farm normies. i don't want to fake flirt with a coworker forever. also i thought kamito was a whore himself? didn't he move on to lisa

>>47825172
>>47825773
Oreapo isn't forced. Kamito just found other women.

>>47825513
>She never laughed like this with Kamito.
That's her strained hostess club laugh. You'll recognize it when she's in collabs full of people who she doesn't know very well.

>>47826142
just started feeling pretty cringe and one sided to me desu seemed like kamito was carrying it

so uh any non-Rust streams coming up?

>>47825172
>i don't get the hate
a couple of seething kamitosisters
as in, actual women and faggots

>shinomiya starts a twitcast
>ends it almost immediately
what did she mean by this

pi the protector

pini pidi pici

https://youtu.be/yVcYrbXgtnA
nosemimi rust

Are there any pirated links for stuff like CR Fes?

>>47832627
I have no idea
Feels like all the crsisters killed themselves or left /here/

>>47832627
The stream link seems to be geoblocked to Japan and I can't even bypass it with a VPN so seems it would be difficult for foreigners to even watch it legitimately if they bought a ticket.

my horse now

who jumpscared nose back there lol

Kamito... where oh where is my retard

>>47835991
join us 12k watching Tororo
https://www.twitch.tv/tororo_vtuber

>>47836401
kanae legit should do scout work.

Why do every clipper suck astel's cock?
>interactions
>over xxxx damage
>le quirky, randomness
I don't care about him one bit, but these clips get on my nerves greatly

>>47836945 (me)
Slowly becoming astel's anti

>>47836945
all clippers are holofags

>>47837112
A substantial amount of nips are also Holofags, obviously.

Tororo being diligent and making sure to get to know her new boytoy's friends. What a good girl.

>>47836401
Damn does she usually get these #numbers? Or is there a special reason right now?

>>47837526
She's the only one on in the team so the views are focused on her.

>>47837526
No, she's just the biggest twitch Rust streamer online on a Saturday morning, so she's eating up those Twitch normie numbers that would otherwise be watching the flesh homies. There's not a lot of people on, but the viewers are here, everyone is pulling massive #s rn

>>47837715
I didn't think everyone else's viewers liked her that much, but that's good to see. She's really cute.

>>47837526
Yesterday at 6 JST, she has around 7k

>>47836945
>every
切り抜きチャンネル is only clipping him because he is interacting with buispo, gonna assume he will eventually fuck off, because he doesn't really fit in anyways

>>47836945
He prioritizes entertainment. Being a dead fish savant is not as clippable as you think it is

>>47836945
>I don't care about him one bit
>but these clips get on my nerves

It's one or the other anon.

>>47838013
Good
>>47839136
Who can say? Either he is entertaining so he is being clipped, or clippers are holofags
>>47839614
No matter, I'm anti now

>>47840359
>Either he is entertaining so he is being clipped, or clippers are holofags

This sounds like you haven't actually watched any of the clips.

>>47810557
>we

>>47841072
Of course not, I said I don't care about him one bit after all

>>47829995
this is one of my favourite pis

It's a shame Kamito doesn't play Tarkov.
We'll probably never see more KamiToro content after the Rust arc.

>>47844020
they can play DaD after Rust.

>>47844020
There'll be producing more content in each other's beds

>>47844283
She's too pure for sex.

>>47844235
sisters used to post this stuff about kohaku...

>>47844745
Im pretty sure he ran into kohaku during that first day he met tororo lmao. dude loves cucking women and honestly I'm here for it

>>47845290
Tororo is different, they got a nice chemistry and she fits his white hair loli preference.

Just saw the clip, Chuna's moving to Japan?

Noah finally decides to do her job https://twitter.com/n0ah_kurumi/status/1649615158204071937

>>47846093
she said that after her 3-day break, MNBD would have a reunion with their coach, but mikodayo can't join the rust server so i wonder what game they'll play

>>47846718
rpr can join but he can't? what a joke

rabuchi

>>47846718
hopefully valorant.

>>47846718
>mikodayo can't join the rust server
wow thats fucked up... the champion coach cant join... even Eden got in, so it doesn't make sense.

Pii

Kontoro
https://www.twitch.tv/kamito_jp

>>47825172
She's a vapid cunt, here solo streams are mind-numbingly dull and in collabs she can be replaced by a soundboard. You will understand once the novelty of her goblin laugh wears off
>inb4 hurrr you're a sister
Can barely stand the retard either

>>47851959
>here solo streams are mind-numbingly dull
And yet you'll still watch them to bitch about her bitching.

>>47851959
Kwnfy

>>47847509
>>47849888
I'm pretty sure it was an issue of number of followers? But since Eden got in, maybe MNB can get Miko in too idk

>>47852028
As long as people continue to bitch about astel and rpr in these threads, this will stop being a valid response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyyi1FlRD5E
you next Rust stream pi

>>47852706
It's not even a valid response though, it's pure projection

>>47852706
Complaining about some fat slug EOP showing up in the background of an unrelated stream is nowhere near watching someone's stream for the express purpose of complaining about it.

any crfes restream?

>>47853059
I got you bro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbScmnZoa-Q

https://www.twitch.tv/gokigennanamechan

How do i get into apex?

>>47853769
Start by downloading the game.

>>47853769
>get into playing apex
plug in controller, then download game, then play run at enemy aimbot simulator
>get into watching apex
say you're a master level player and string together buzzwords on anonymous image boards to justify random /sp/-tier shitposts
if pressed, change your writing style and try again
also watch some tournaments I guess

>>47853769
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhWyDo0CsL0
Watch my cute wife continue to not play shitty rust.

Python obsessed tard

>>47854918
Finally some entertainment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOq6mdxI2A0
Kino soon.

>>47855450
Her びっくり顔 is the best in the business.
I feel like she actually makes sure it's calibrated properly unlike other people.

>>47826450
U dont like hearing 'urusaaaaaiiiiii' 'neeeeeeeee' 'yamete yooooo' in every collab?

Im here sisters

>>47855902
Place reeks of fujos

>>47855902
Describe smell

>>47855902
I just want to know what Uruca will be doing there.
>>47856119
>>47856143
CR events are for riajuu just like VSPO events are. That place probably smells nice.

>>47856119
70/30 i'd say

>>47856157
What's a riajuu?

>>47855902
stream doko

>>47856364
you

>>47856364
found one here

>>47856364
Google it, retard.

>>47856364
newfag

https://twitter.com/12_kr21/status/1649666363408121858
sniff sniff

>>47856364

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAWPMrBtQw
Based tayataya

>>47856855
Cute interaction.

Ritsukin is an angel too

Ritsuki saved Kamitos ass. Good job president.

Why are all the rust characters black men?

>>47857446
ntr fetish

>>47857446
> Your appearance is randomly generated based on your Steam ID, and it will be stuck like that forever. Garry Newman, the owner of Facepunch Studios, wrote an article in which he stated that Rust will never have character customization since it would be a waste of time.
I could give you the right answer but it would be off topic.

>>47857503
whatever your answer is, it's probably retarded and wrong, and the last thing I'd want on a vspo thread

I didn't know I would like one retard interacting with this many women so much

Ritsukin is a fucking burden holy fuck nijisanji is so bad and should fuck off.

Beni solorant for all the rust haters
https://www.youtube.com/live/PbVo2HJeRKA?feature=share

>>47857702
fuck off back to homostars

>>47857323
don't tell me he's playing offstream again

>>47857825
twitch

>>47857928
my bad. didn't get the twitter notification for some reason.
also
>15k viewers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbVo2HJeRKA
FUCK RUST

eww Astel keeps dying

>>47858086
Astel came to leech off Kamitos kills and died a few times in the process... They tried to get Kamito to help them, bur Kamito said fuck off. Better off to duo with Ritsuki

Uruca is getting another one on the wall.
Anyone know who requested it?

>>47858225
himself

>>47858004
No big streamers on twitch are live + server was restarting and kamito was watching clips of rust -> people tune in in the downtime

>>47857724
>>47858058
What happened to Beni's VCT perms...

>>47858225
Manta also confirmed that uruca is a cute girl

only eops here? this thread is slow af

>>47858458
This threadbis faster and bigger than usual because of EOPs. The fuck are you on about? The more EOPs the faster a thread is on here.

>"dying with this much scraps would be worrying"
>dies
ritsukin saving kamito's ass again
>kmt: no no im fine its ok
>rtkn: im coming with anyway

Sirande Unrailed
https://www.youtube.com/live/1lPGKyVXkFg?feature=share

>>47858589
I swear if you leave the retard alone with any woman, he'll activate their maternal instincts.

>>47858800
Waiting for the collab with 774’s Mary.

>>47858903
Needs to be Rene, see who can be the biggest retard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa-j5tw-UPc
watometo
the last one I'm guessing

>>47861281
(in 5 hours)

>>47862222
wrong thread holofag

Is Pakael and Gorilla the Messi vs Ronaldo of Apex chuuba?

>>47862361
no, paka is neymar
reid vs gori is the classic matchup

>>47858980
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJgchoS75rc

>>47862350
Rent free

>>47862350
this is the dekani9 thread, so its the right thread for ganchan and ganchan-related posts

>>47862222
I know what incident this is, but I don't get why you'd write it in MSPaint on this image.

>>47863361
i'm implying that's what he painted on the signboard after winning vsai, being invited to rust and holding 3.5k+. obviously should be in japanese but for the purposes of a shitpost on a basket weaving forum i think this is fine and more to the point i don't know how to write that with the nuance i wanted in japanese let alone expect it to be understood

>>47863783
lol not winning but you get what i mean

doubt anyone gives a shit but Jasper joined CR.

>>47863826
I asked.

Shirandee unrailed tunred into mahjong

>>47863826
Is he just there to balance out obo?

https://twitter.com/_dtto/status/1649726479239110657
towa just fucking snapped

>>47863826
who's next? K4sen?

>>47864752
>CR_ZETA_K4sen
There's no way

>>47864706
Just give her some smokes.

>>47864283
idk i think i preferred mahjong 1
3p mahjong is silly anyway

https://youtu.be/EGRxS86vZv4
The new 774 is an overwatch player. Pute might have someone to play with...!

My wife and our dog

https://twitter.com/marugayotu/status/1649706101947129856

>>47865684
Inubeni's nose is bendier than I thought it would be

I want to stick my nose in Beni's shit pipe.

another new 774 fps player

>>47866033
>VALORANT
>ASMR

>>47866033
>no csgo
when will we have another cs vtuber?

>>47866056
I don't understand. You're saying she already killed possible Unitards or what?

>>47866033
>774 sells their top streamer to Vspo
>then proceeds to hire Vspo rejects

>>47866162
The two so far have both been Hoshikawa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VooLSdYIgjU
shilling these cute FPS girls before the thread dies

Ras has two sets of ALGS matches tomorrow and he flew to Japan for this dogshit event? lmao its over.

>>47866290
idolshit is more important

I tried playing valorant but its so hard. Am I too old to get good? Im already 27..

https://youtu.be/otAfOect0Jk
APOLOGIZE

>>47866978
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>>47866978
nice, more friends for astel

>>47866448
valorant is babby game..

>noah
>sandbox game
>虚無
home

[good news]
runa is awake

>>47866448
Yes, you're a decrepit husk and can never compete with 19 year olds, better to not even start