/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>46518745
They don't fucking stream

>>46518745
https://youtube.com/shorts/guramY6vAos?feature=share

The lack of hype in anything, really
Thanks Ame

>>46518745
Laziness.

Look at gura's donos on her comeback. It is explicitly because vtubers who don't stream are a bad investment for paypigs. Not streaming is what killed holoen. All the japanese girls feel grateful/fearful of yagoo because he took a bunch of washed up neet e-girls in their 30s and made them STARS. Millionaires, the top 1% of tokyo, able to buy all the monkeys and cats they could ever want. The same thing happened with many of the EN girls but instead of being grateful they said "oh wow, now I can just be a lazy fuck". And that's what they did.

Let's do a quick breakdown
>gura ALWAYS tries to stream over 'gura killers', so she'll suck all the air out of the room
>gura was streaming when council happened because she was afraid bae/mumei would replace her, stopped caring when mumei was too afraid of her chat to stream and bae had the australian debuff
>ina stopped streaming because she was sad sana was gone
>amelia didn't feel like streaming if the others weren't gonna stream
>mori and kiara have actual recording work to do
>sana stopped streaming because she got -gasp- criticized for erratic streaming schedules and she has no ability to deal with any criticism being a pampered artist (this is also why she graduated)
>irys something something throat something something recording
>fauna is okay
>kronii I have never understood what was happening with her, from day 1 she was the only council that could compete with gura so gura immediately tried to leech her, but kronii didn't want to be number 1 and started ditching work, weird person
If, somehow, there is ever a gen 3 they need PEOPLE WHO WILL STREAM AND BE GRATEFUL FOR THE JOB instead of people who are like "ummm but I have to do stuff for my math class so I can't but maybe later?" or "I'm not going to stream because I'm going to ghost you, fuck you lol".

>>46518745
A lot of reasons:
>The most popular ones don't stream
>No friendship in Myth
>Gura hates her genmates abd prefers Council
>Mori's music is mid
>IRyS's music is mid
>Zero official branch support for years
>Tempus debuts
>Kronii and Amelia being total anti parasocials
>Nijiwhore Chicken

Much much more

>>46518745
2 words: Calliope Mori

>>46518745
They don't stream
It's been 2 years since a new gen
Boredom sets in
The girls are far more restricted with what they can do now too. (Remember when they could sing any song they liked at karaoke?)
Competition. There's a billion en vtubers now and your Oshi may not be at HoloEN.

All of the above and
>barely anybody seems enthusiastic about gaming which is not good when half your career is streaming video games
>no collective desire to maintain unified branch image; part-timers who just wander off and do whatever for months
>the great homo disaster of '22
>the great did everybody just fucking give up in winter '22
>still no new gen to pick up the slack even now
>weird noticable mismanagement behind the scenes that is never resolved??

>>46518945
H hot

> Gura doesn't stream despite being full package
> Ina doesn't stream despite being full package
> Callie is divisive; she's got a ton of legit fans but she's also maybe the most deeply hated talent in the branch
> Ame is divisive; she's super creative but probably not cut out for the "idol" side of things
> Kiara is divisive; her game lineup is one of the best in the branch but her personality is abrasive to a lot of the audience
> Sana quit
> Kronii is divisive; incredible voice but she seems to intentionally alienate both her audience and her peers
> Bae is divisive; I think she's got the sauce to be a top-tier talent despite some missteps and debuffs
> Mumei barely streams; I think she could be top tier provided the right support system
> Fauna and Irys can't carry 8 other talents alone

Pile on top of this lack of gen cohesion, lack of Cover support, and an overcrowded market, and we start to get to the problem.

>>46518945
why she got a hamster on her head

Nigga what decline? Stop being delusional

>>46519138
I don't think that many of them were in their 30s, I think Botan/Polka were the only ones 40+

>>46520915
The Kiara one always baffles me. I get people being turned off by her loudness or her voice but personality wise she's not socially retarded and is usually the tard wrangler. Her bluntness isn't even detrimental as she's hardly rude to anyone.

She fucked up her first impressions for a lot of people with her first streams so she never had huge momentum already.

>Mori is cancer and collabs with males
>Gura was great but she doesn't stream anymore
>Ame was good but she collabed with males and streams less
>Ina was always mid, doesn't stream anymore
>Kiara is good but she streams at EU times, plus there's only so much she can do herself
>IRyS was good but throat hort
>Fauna is good
>Mumei was okay but now she's dying and can't stream
>Kronii was mid, lied to her fans, collabed with males, and basically shit the bed, also doesn't stream anymore.
>Bae was mid, collabs with males

People want to watch streams and they want those streams to be cute girls doing cute things.

>>46521090
Tell that to yourself lol.

>talent unhappy
>unhappy talent no fun

>>46518745
>job is just playing video games
>don't care about video games

>>46518846
this desu

>>46518745
>kiara, who is objectively the most consistent chuuba in holoen, is annoying as fuck or as kfps like to cope "an acquired taste"
>mori is shit and just annoying mostly
>ame is meh
>gura is one of the good ones but she hates streaming
>ina is meh and doesn't stream
>fauna is good, I unironically have nothing to complain about fauna other than her voice can filter some
>mumei is menhera but is otherwise okay
>kronii is retarded, like jesus fucking christ woman
>bae is meh, a bit annoying but decent
>irys is okay but is always in recording hell, cover is also fucking incompetent with handling her
>myth unity is a myth
>sanners killing council unity
>tempiss being the start of a civil war
>retarded en management in general

>>46521794

Pretty much. I don't actually know what is going on over there that basically every talent is fucking miserable and doesn't want to stream all the time, but shit like that doesn't just happen.

>>46522053
I mean half of them were lazy and miserable to start with. Mori and Kronii clearly just applied for easy money. Ina and Sana both didn't think it would take up as much time as it did since they have other jobs.

>>46521290
Half right, but Polka is still in the early half of her thirties. Koro-san is other potential 40+

i dont see any of them loving the job
and thankful for having it.

EN really needs a good gen 3 to revitalize the branch, but it is such a shitshow right now that cover are too afraid of another dud EN gen putting the final nail on EN's growth's coffin.
Honestly i have no idea how they fucked up so badly talent chemistry-wise. You'd thibk that with the ammount of people they have in en, at least 3 or 4 people would form a clique with decent chemistry, but it hasn't happened.
The EN idol corp girls built more chemistry in 4 months (1 month in Riro's case) than both Holo EN generations did in years.

Gura not streaming.

>>46521090
Threadreaders gonna threadread

>>46518846
fpbp

>>46518745
If you want streamers you can go to Phase Connect, Idol, Kawaii, or your favorite Indies.

Hololive wasn't meant for you. Niji and VShit are trash. You will never accept anything Japanese so I'm gatekeeping you from them.

>>46522826
>If you want streamers you can go to Phase Connect
and so i did.

>>46520979
It's going in her ass later.

>>46522896
And that's fine. Understandably so Hololive is not for everyone. I don't think of them as streamers for the most part. But it doesn't mean they suck.

because myth is trash, the only ones that genuinely cares about holo is kiara and ina and of them barely streams, cover really fucked up myth most them clearly don’t give a fuck

>>46523019
>Chinese gacha artist Ina
>Never drew or collabed with Coco because she feared losing work, meanwhile Fubuki cut her superchats in half without a second thought.
>Cares about Hololive
I needed a laugh thanks anon.

>>46523110
What are you trying to prove here? Fubuki sold out? Fuck outta here nigga

>>46519138
What I don't get is, look at Ayame, she hardly streams and she still seems to get rewarded heavily for it. But you don't see the same thing happen with the ENs. They stop streaming and people stop paying. They can't do a stream once in a while and pull in a shitload of money like Ayame, they have actually pushed people away. Is it actually just a difference in culture? Does the west not put up with people who are lazy and refuse to work, while Japan is fine with it?

>>46523353
>They stop streaming and people stop paying.
what about this is confusing for you?

>>46522826
>You will never accept anything Japanese so I'm gatekeeping you from them.
I mean I won't watch a Japanese vtuber simply because I don't speak the language. It's boring as fuck watching a streamer you can't understand.

>>46523178
No you ESL retard, I'm saying Fubuki actually cares about Hololive and dropped China without a second thought meanwhile Ina wouldn't do anything to risk the wrath of her Chinese overlords and doesn't actually care about Hololive.

>>46523402
Read my whole post this time and answer my question.

>>46518745
Cover took the EN branch and tried to do something that wasnt HoloJP when thats literally the only thing people asked for. Now we have almost as many dudes as girls and half the fanbases shit on each other.

>>46523353
streaming is not their work.

>>46523429
At least you're honest.

>>46518745
Overprotective, underappreciative EN management.

>>46523353
>They stop streaming and people stop paying.
Twitchfags are loud but have no money.

>>46523353
>EOP thinks streaming is 100% of their job
roru
rumao
Even Suisei doesn't stream every day and she's their top talent atm

>>46523353
HoloJP is much more robust and has a lot more members. So even if your oshi is Ayame, you can watch someone else. In HoloEN, there aren’t nearly as many members and they’re much more different from each other. If Ina’s on hiatus you’re not just going to watch Bae or Ame.
Add in the fact that HoloEN overall has been having issues, and a lot of people just straight up don’t like their other options.

>>46523353
I assure you ayame would be a powerhouse like Miko if she actually streamed normally, what she gets is already her debuff numbers

>>46523353
Ayame is an exception not the rule. Also a great design can carry you far, look at the void of talent that is Kronii.

>>46523559
Who in EN wants to be more than a streamer other than Mori? Suisei is a completely different case

>>46523477
you want me to explain why people would pay in exchange for nothing? they are insane or retarded. there is no explanation.

>>46523477
Honestly couldn't understand your question. Japan hates laziness too Ayame is an outlier.

>>46518745
Everything Holo EN does ends up being a wet fart. There's no excitement or hype because of their weird "it has to be a surprise" autism, which is exciting the first few times but becomes tiresome fast, especially when the big surprise at the end is some scuffed, half-assed stream where half of them don't even seem to want to be there.

>>46519145
>muh males
>>46520724
>muh males
>>46520915
>muh males
>>46521488
>muh males
Seethe

>Not streaming
>No strong variety in streaming content
>Self-Debuffing
It's just a bunch of small things that just adds onto the pile. Kronii could do so much more if she made streams around her voice skills, Ina does actually stream drawing unlike Sana and so on.

>>46518745
holoen's walled garden management style is killing them and relegating them to a small, closed off section of the wider en vtubing sphere.
The landscape isn't like 2020 where they were mostly the only real game in town, set trends, and needed to protect their market share. The world is much larger now and indies are doing many more interesting things and setting trends that holoen is locked out of because management wants to keep them out. It's becoming demoralizing not being able to do much or collab or do new things with other people they want so myth has just slowed down streaming because they're getting bored.
Hell, even HoloID is out not locked out of collabing with outsiders like EN has been. Kiara probably had to sacrifice one of her fucking cats to get that first collab with pomu.

>>46524247
nobody gives a shit what you think about the homos. the drama was real and didn't do EN any favors

>>46524247
It's a simple complaint really. People hate men on stream.

>>46524309
Other than Kiara none of them are interested in doing anything outside that walled garden

>>46518745
They don't stream, they don't have permission to do anything fun or stay up to date on the latest games, some of them don't click and are never good in collabs, some are desperate to be normal streamers which defeats the purpose of being a fucking vtuber, almost none of them try anything fun anymore (there are exceptions, primarily Bae who generally just seems to be having a good time overall), when Myth specifically meet up offline they do it for them and not the fans so they end up telling you they met and not share any stories or stream which defeats the fucking point of meeting up. Their most subscribed is Gura who is very fucking obviously absolutely done with this whole thing and has been done for like a whole year now, she's more of a mascot than a streamer so her design is more recognizable and iconic than the person behind the avatar that's supposed to give it a personality.

Management is constantly fucking with their ideas and projects so they end up doing nothing, further amplifying the boring vibes and stale streaming. A lot of them dropped schedules altogether. Aside from big events, there's little reason to tune in to their normal game streams. They already had one graduation with Sana, Cover sabotaged Project Hope all by themselves and IRyS is basically a replacement member for Council. Yagoo is still a fucking awful and terrible boss who is growing more and more narcissistic because of people making memes and jokes out of him and treating him like a loveable goof instead of asking him why the people he hires for management are almost always fucking trash.

I can go on, but it's a mix of many things going wrong and a 50/50 split of blame between the streamers and management. They're not doing bad at all, mind you, they're just painfully fucking boring and have been for a long time now. There's very little reason to be a "holoEN fan", it's a much better use of your time to only watch your oshi or the specific ones you enjoy and never keep up with the rest, because there's not much to keep up with anyway.

>>46524247
Anon even you can't deny tempiss didn't help matters with EN

>>46524414
> she's more of a mascot than a streamer so her design is more recognizable and iconic than the person behind the avatar that's supposed to give it a personality.
God, Gura without Gura’s rm…normalfags are living the dream not having to know or care about her to use her as a meme

>>46523353
Its probably because there's tons of other JPs in the company and maybe a feeling for some that Ayame at least was close to being one of the first members at Hololive, so she did her time. That or maybe they feel like there's still no one like them even now.
I guess you can argue the same for someone like Gura, but she probably went MIA for longer or just as long as Ayame, which doesn't sit quite as well as gaijins in comparison at a time where attention span is at its shortest. That and she pretty much left in a giant void for tons of imitators to fill in because she just doesn't stream. Yeah she's the original, but I don't think that matters for most fans, they'll take their time and money to someone else that does.

>>46524479
I HoloEN were having good streams it wouldn't have been an issue at all. People used them as an excuse to vent their frustrations.

>>46524610
>>46524610
One simple rule. NO MALE COLLAB. It annoys me that much I'm willing to sabotage the whole branch.

Complacency and a disconnect with their fans. Only Kiara and maybe Irys feel like they have connected with their fans in a way like JP memebrs have. The rest of HoloEN and many EN vtubers in general feel like they're just here to collect a pay check.

>>46524405
none that they've admitted publicly. bae has collabed with an old friend once before and mumei and selen knew each other previously. Hell, this isn't really all about the collab ban. It's about them being locked out of being able to do anything new or influence wider trends because they can't do much of anything. If they hadn't hired ame they'd be dead in the water because that vrchat 3d idea was their only life raft for 3 years.

>>46519138
>All the japanese girls feel grateful/fearful of yagoo because he took a bunch of washed up neet e-girls in their 30s and made them STARS.
I've been saying for a long time that Hololive EN needs hags, I'm of the belief that they should launch a GAMERS style in-between gen with only hags in it (called HoloHAGS EN). Or failing that they should have a minimum of 2 hags in EN3. JP hags are good at levelling the younger girls out, giving them someone to talk to that understands the stresses of the job because they're in that job too, but they have the perspective and life experience of someone who has had to wageslave in a lousy job before they won the jackpot and got picked for a stay-at-home streaming job making millions of yen every month (or few months). The EN girls are all at sea without the solid leadership of HAGS.
>B-but Ina is a hag now!
No. Barely past 30 isn't good enough, you need mid to late 30s MINIMUM.

HoloEN are just boring talents overall and super inconsistent with streaming. There's no reason to stay when there are EN indies and corporations who are way more entertaining and provide way more content. Not to mention terrible chemistry between the members.

>>46518745
Youtube culling half of their live viewers in late 2020 and again in early 2021 was a problem from two different angles: complacency and motivation.
While this cull is active, they will, never again, hit even close to their record ccvs, and that's alright, because this cull is active. This probably killed their greed and pride deep down(read numberfaggotry), and thus, they don't really want to try as much as before, specially when added to the already mentioned lack of support, mismanagement and denials from upper management.

Releasing a new gen would not even work at this point, unless they were able to get a monster even bigger than Gura; someone that will able to prove possible to grown even in these conditions, but such person even exists?

End of the pandemic

>>46524908
>muh cull that only effects EN

>>46519988
This.

>>46523994
But why is she an outlier? There has to be concrete reasons that she has been able to shrug off MULTIPLE extended hiatuses with minimal contact with her fans. Its like the equivalent of fasting for Ramadan but instead of 1 month a year it happens several weeks at a time and 6+ times a year.

>>46524566
>That and she pretty much left in a giant void for tons of imitators to fill in because she just doesn't stream. Yeah she's the original, but I don't think that matters for most fans, they'll take their time and money to someone else that does.
Has there been a noticeable impact on Gura's numbers since her return as compared to her numbers late last year before the long break? Have some of the imitators had a modicum of success in sucking off chumbuds from her?

>>46525431
I see three other former Gura regulars all the time in my new oshi's chat, and she's far from being one of the more popular destinations for chumbuds who gave up on Gura.

>>46524938
I'm not saying that they don't reclined, that's part of the problem, the "cull cope" probably turned off any alarms inside of their heads, "I'm not reclining, the numbers are wrong, it's the cull".

If the cull is real or not, if the jps are not affected by it or if they overcame it, it's not even relevant at this point. The point is that became a "largely accepted excuse" to not try anymore.

>>46518846
>>46518945
This. Hire people that actually like streaming.

>>46525580
>three
I'll take that as a resounding no

>decline
what decline?

While I can believe everyone in EN can have their lazy days, I'm in the camp that they're more likely getting kneecapped by stuff like health problems (Ina and Mumei in particular), meetings at awful hours, and needlessly anal permissions. On top of that, there's only 10 of them compared to JP's 30 something girls just makes this more painful. I have nothing against the EN boys and I understand not wanting to ACCELERATE but not having any girls in pipeline was not wise.

>>46525812
Or just... hire people at all. HoloEN has been stagnant for way too long. EN3 should be ancient history by now, and EN4 should either be on the way soon or announced by now. Look at how successful ID3 has been after the flop of ID2, and ID3's success has rubbed off on ID2. EN needs that.

>>46526128
I don't watch EN streamers at all.

>>46519138
Holy seethe, Gura is the one who actually tried to save EN from the shitstorm that was 2022
If everyone followed her lead EN would be in a much better spot and the fanbase wouldn't have shit itself like it did and be in the weakened state it is now
At least Fauna being chumbud prime got rewarded for her good instincts, she played her cards well and deserves her incline

>>46523540
He didn't even mention Twitch though..
>twitchfags have no money
Meanwhile ironmouse makes 20-40K monthly just from memberships for the last couple years.

>>46526043
There is none. 4th Fes was their grandest event ever. Connect the World is huge for HoloEN. EN unicorns are a fucking joke and contribute nothing to Hololive but seething.

>>46518745
Incompetent EN management that has been coasting off of 2020 and doesn't know how to grow the brand and has let en stagnate to the point that the streamers themselves are getting bored of constantly doing the same thing over and over.

>>46520915
>but probably not cut out for the "idol" side of things
You fucking think? She cant sing or dance to save her life.

>>46526451
>Don't listen to anything Ina says.
>Keep collabs in-house.
>Run EVERY tweet by management first, or just have management in charge of it to begin with.
There, I fixed it.

The girls are riding off their debut. Myth is riding off of stuff they did in 2020 for the most part, except Kiara who wants to reach farther and Council likewise exists off that initial burst, except Bae showing her dancing skills that were mentioned on debut and went unusued for 1.5 years.

Council is doing better than Myth though, since Fauna and Bae seem to be slowly clawing back lost momentum and IRyS with soon Mumei are doing their best considering they are retarded. Even Kronii showed up to that april fool's thing despite her jaw being fucked up.

So I guess it always comes back to- too many are MIA.

>>46524752
Council is closer to their chat than Myth.

>>46526451
fucking this. I love Fauna, probably one of the best streaming ethics in EN next to Kiara, but holy fuck am I getting bored of the Hitman,GOI, sometimes skyrim, Minecraft loop. Then there is Gura who literally is just stuck on a fucking Minecraft loop entirely.

>>46526551
You haven't watched a minute of Ayame, EOPchama. Why lie?

>>46520915
>> Mumei barely streams; I think she could be top tier provided the right support system
I want to give Mumei a chance but her spastic schedule makes it hard when my oshi streams almost constantly.

>>46526847
You need to read the post I replied to anon

>>46526215
>Gura was saving EN from m*les by not streaming
Actual insanity. Watch Kaela for further instructions on what to do.

>>46526914
>read the post
Homobegger seething.

Hololive is many people's gateway to vtubers and the normie option. Plenty of people want to see what else is out there outside of Hololive's self-contained community, and some of them will find they like what's outside more. That's it. That's the reason. There is much more competition now. There's people with flashier models, better gimmicks, more variety, and who can interact with new people all the time instead of being restricted almost exclusively to a group of 10.

That's it. That's the answer. It's really not that difficult. Competition brings out the best in people, and unless the EN side can adapt to the interests of their market then indies and those outside of their group will continue to siphon their viewers. This isn't 2021 anymore where the only vtubers hitting 4 digits in CCV outside of HoloEN were VShojo and like 3 indies. There's a big ecosystem out there that HoloEN simply is not participating in.

>>46524405
>>46524802
Mumei and Ame have literally collabed with Selen. Do people here even watch streams?

>>46526229
Because Vshojo literally has one of the twitch owners running it and he was one of the guys who helped found Twitch in the first place. It is 1:1 if Youtube released their own vtuber group and ensured the algorithm would always favor them. Vshojo is not successful because they are good, your taste is bad and the cards were always stacked in their favor so that Twitch could get a nice profit from vshitshow.

>>46525431
For one thing, Ayame makes way more money than Gura.

>>46527084
No. They only read the catalog

>>46526850
call it cope, but I'm hoping this stream she has tomorrow will be her big comeback. she was eager enough to even stream when she was coughing her lungs out before the break so who knows

>>46526061
People cry when Nijisanji is constantly recruiting new livers but then also cry when Hololive doesn't recruit any new livers. There's no winning.

>>46526797
Gura is on minecraft because she can meet aqua and the other JPs there, because otherwise she wants to play something with horror and gore but management refuses to get perms for 'yabai' games because they are retarded.

>>46526797
I lost so much respect for Gura over her Super Metroid streams, that was such a highlight of my childhood and to see her retarded pants on head gameplay while she and chat got salty at one another pissed me off so much. Like having a niece piss and moan like a cunt while watching your favorite movie ever.

>>46527213
>this stream she has tomorrow will be her big comeback
"I'm graduating at the end of April."
:D

>>46527220
Have you not seen anons saying that they want Hololive to hire faster but not as fast as Nijisanji? It’s really not hard to hire a new gen every nine months or so, which is nowhere near as fast as Nijisanji. In fact, that’s how long it took between Myth and Council.

>>46527220
throwing hundreds of livers against the wall and see what sticks or not recruiting anyone. if only their was some kind of middle ground...

>>46527220
Because you are disingenuous and post the same 80 IQ bullshit in every thread?
>hololive has not recruited anyone new in almost 2 years no males do not count
>content stagnates
Meanwhile
>nijisanji shits out ten trannies who are all communist and gay
>anything good about lazulydia slowly being destroyed, despite this Pomu and Selen get numbers because they are actual good streamers, while Elira and Finana took the "parasocial fucks" pill and are reclining to zero

>>46527220
Stop exposing yourself sis
>>46527279
>slated to be in Connect the World
What did the retard mean by this?

>>46527256
>she wants to play something with horror and gore but management refuses to get perms for 'yabai' games because they are retarded.
I fucking believe it, knowing how tone death and brain dead EN management is with these girls. don't they fucking realize horror streams were some of Gura's biggest hits? Outlast, Amnesia, that weird ass pacman style horror game, all great streams from her

>>46527420
I don't know what that is.

There is no "decline" and HoloEN is still extremely strong. HoloEN are still the top of the industry.

That said, they could be significantly further ahead than where they are now. Cover simply failed to capitalize on their explosive success in an effective manner. I know restrictions were a thing, but if Myth could have gotten full 3D and Council + Irys debuted by summer 2021, they could have easily carried that momentum forward. Ideally after that, we would have had Council 3D by early 2022, and then some kino off collabs and content all throughout last year, culminating with EN3 in late 2022.
Instead, the last two years came with massive gaps in content from HoloEN, which unfortunately coincided with the rise of small corpos stealing attention away during their downtime.

>>46527075
There's unironically nothing wrong with HoloEN still staying in a pseudo walled garden. Just look at Apple for an example of how they keep to themselves while still dominating the market. HoloEN just needs to produce more high quality content in the face of new competition.

>>46527445
If this is true, then maybe Gura should start doing zatsudans where she passively aggressively complains about management’s incompetence like Kiara. It would finally give her an idea for a stream. What are they gonna do, suspend her for innocently sighing about how she’s still waiting on those perms?

>>46527445
when was that? the GORN vr last year was rather gory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K71jMo1kCZ8

>>46527501
That's because you don't watch anything, catalognigger

>>46527043
that's not what I said retard

>>46527501
of course you don't you catalogue baiting, thread reading, non-stream watching faggot

>>46527272
well, did you at least get to have your birthday at olive garden?

>>46527568
>>46527581
lmao keep on seething, I'll keep on reading

>>46527532
My only complaint with HoloEN is that they're slow on giving Councilirys 3D and not marketing them overseas good enough up until just now in which it may have been too late to really garner serious overseas interest. EN3 could honestly wait for another year and I wouldn't mind.

>>46523353
gura, ina, shion, marine, aqua, ayame.
All of those who stream less but have more CCV views, don't you feel weirded about it?

>>46527532
They’ve lost a lot of that momentum though. Sometimes the Apple method works, but other times you get Betamax. If you don’t know, Sony was trying to make Betamax the only format by making it exclusive to Sony and forcing other companies to pay up for the license. That’s why everyone fucked off and went with VHS instead.

>>46527552
how nice for them to give her a bone with this one, despite probably through gritted teeth since it was a VR stream AND not horror

>>46527793
>don't you feel weirded out about it?
No because I don't rely on this shitboard's opinion on which talents I have to like because Hololive isn't just streaming.

>>46527356
>their

>>46527445
you went back to september-october 2020 on purpose for that list, didn't you?

>>46518745
Clips stopped bringing in views. You tards act like CCV matters when YouTube has been the king of content for nearly 2 decades, and most YouTube watchers don't want to watch a 5 hour stream or VOD. If the clip views drop, then CCV drops, and if the clip views rise, then CCV rises. It only flows one way.

>>46527964
i'm committing seppuku as we speak

>>46526215
Fauna's incline was due to Ina's hiatus and refugee takos. now that Ina is "back", Fauna's numbers have gone noticeably down when Ina overlaps.

>>46528047
>saying this when Pekora's CCV doesn't dwindle at all as time goes on
I know /#/ has poisoned your brain but come on anon

>>46518846
Fippy bippy. I want to watch them but they have to fucking stream more than 8 hours a week if I'm even lucky. I wish they'd get whipped by staff until they started emulating Kaela or Korone.

>>46527149
Gunrun never owned jack shit in Twitch and still doesn't.
He quit in 2018 to flog backpacks.
Though it is true that he holds some influence there, it's not in an official capacity. Nor is Vshojo owned by Twitch, hence Kson being primarily Youtube.

>>46528030
tis was her golden year I'd say, times we will probably never get back

>>46528336 (me)
Forgot pick. It's straight off his linkdin

>>46528400
2020 was a magical time, but most of my best memories of her streams were in the first half of 2021. it was august and september 2021 that i first started to notice her pitching down, and by spring 2022 she was a wingless fireball plunging straight down.

>>46522581
Until Gura and Ina went on break, HoloEN was still strong. Then it was a huge drop, but the rest held up on their own against the accelerating competition.
Gura's and Ina's return has shown that their fans are faithful. Not many vtubers can say that. Soon the algorithm will be like before. And will continually gain, replacing those they lost.
Hololive imitating an idol agency will hold strong, for those wanting entertainment void of drama, politics, and twitter popular opinions. The rest is oversaturated. I welcome Niji's acceleration plans. Doesn't affect Holobox, but hurts indies. I also want Stars to gain more ground, since they target a different audience. EN3 will catapult. Council was released too early. Don't be surprised if hear some familiar voices.

>>46528716
>Until Gura and Ina went on break, HoloEN was still strong.
I would argue things took a turn for the worse during the Myth off collab arc last summer.

>>46527532
Yes they're still on top and honestly they probably will be for some time, if not forever unless something disastrous happens. Doesn't mean that they can't still be declining as others outside of them incline and grow. You said it yourself. Producing high quality content keeps people invested, but Apple invested its time and effort into mp3 players, watches, other tech, etc. Hololive has done...? Their tech is behind everyone else's (except Nijisanji), they're slow as fuck to get simple things like 3D models or new outfits, and their content is good, but outside of major events like HoloFES and concerts it's stuff you can get elsewhere.

>>46528799
I agree, since the Myth collabs stopped. But there is JP, Council, and ID. And EN3 will add even more collab opportunities to build upon.

>>46528274
The difference is that the algorithm actually gives Pekora's audience only Pekora, whereas Gura's audience gets a mix of other vtubers and old clips.

>>46525290
Probably because she contributed at first during holos founding while the others haven't contributed enough (especially sana)
>but her vod count
Most were wiped because of Mio causing the first holocaust.

Nigga HoloEN is still by far the most popular vtuber group in the West. What decline there has been has just been from people getting bored of the vtuber craze in general.

>>46529091
Maybe that's because Pekora produces so much content that there are 100 clips of her daily while Gura clippers have to go watch other holos to clip them just mentioning Gura

>>46528825
The holobox is a cost-cutting measure. Every minute and every dollar they spend on HoloEN is a minute and dollar they could be spending somewhere else. Let’s face it, HoloEN is meant to get as many foreigners to give a shit about Hololive with as little effort as possible.
And it’s worked well, but they’re not going to do anything but stem the bleeding by continuing to do this.

>>46529172
In the west, there's probably bored people. HoloJP still goes strong though.

>>46529172
>ENfags boasting EN is at the top of the world their first year
>Jp mogs them once again
>w-well at least we're still at the top of the EN """"""scene""""
Damn this has been funny

When people say “HoloEN”’s decline, what they really mean is Myth’s decline. Bae and Fauna who both used to be runts got 9k gaming streams today. Council has never been better, stop including them in to your doom and gloom mythsharts.

>>46518745
>NijiEN
>Vshojo
HoloEN now has competition unlike when they debuted.

>>46529629
Last year maybe. Now though, NijiEN really isnt competition. Even Luxiem isnt what it was.

>>46529494
9k is cause no one is streaming... Imagine being proud of this compared to their numbers early 2022...

>>46530100
Fauna’s average when she first started out was like 6k even without overlap. Now she’s #2 in EN.

>>46527445
>tone death

>>46518745
Gura's disinterest in streaming and deciding to put up YouTube shorts to make up for it.
Oh and Kronii insulting her fans

>>46519138
>>mori and kiara have actual recording work to do

stopped reading here. no one would record mori. kiaria could have a music career before mori

>>46530449
>Insulting
Only SEA trolls think she insulted her fans, the real thing was lying to them. She had a heart to heart with them, then went on break for a week, came back and said "Yeah you know that heart to heart we had? Fuck it, I'll do what I want."

>>46518745
There is no decline, you nijiniggers are just projecting.

>>46521488
based. punish bitches for shitting on their fans and collabing with males

>>46530608
The only thing she changed her mind on was not hosting those collabs on her channel. That's not lying

>>46518745
nijien massive declining deflection thread

>>46530894
https://files.catbox.moe/8684g7.mp4
>Initiates collabs
>Interacts with them in public a lot, in fact immediately drops pic related after.
>Hosts collabs on her channel
>Streams her POV
>Ignores all the other things she said during this stream and gets Cover to release a statement so she can hide behind the skirts of the corporation

>>46530974
I don't even watch them lol. I'm just genuinely curious about the other's opinion.

>>46530353
>Tempest exist
yes, very tone death I'd say

>>46531106
>a lot
One twitter reply

>>46526215
>Gura was the one who actually tried to save EN from the shitstorm that was 2022
I love Gura but the hell are you talking about? She hardly streamed the latter half of the year. Some savior. Had she actually streamed you would have had a point.

tonight my drunk buddy punched me in the face

>>46521379
Shes a midwit filter in many ways, but she was outdone by all the other myths at debut

>>46518745
Lack of streams and competing corporations took the spotlight during the massive hiatus starting late 2021.

>>46524247
lol seethe. this isn't your clown cult

>>46529172
None. It hurt the feelings of falseflagging Homobeggars.

>>46530974
Luxiem and holoEN are complete polar opposites in terms of fanbases, they do not overlap.

There's just too many things to mention. What particularly killed it for me was the addition of males and Gura's total absence. I never got into Council because by the time Council came around I was already in the small corpo scene, and with the exception of Gura and Kiara Myth just destroyed all good will it had for me. The utterly out of touch EN management, comments from Ame, Kronii and that first snake as a whole (Mori), the males, the stagnant content, the absence of any sort of fun or experimentation just imploded the whole thing. HoloEN literally cannot compete with small corpos or bigger indies in terms of content and personality. I was hoping I'd at least get Gura back, but despite the Japan arc the only thing she did was shit out three Minecraft streams which are so painfully boring by definition I didn't even watch them, and I've been membered to her for almost two years. She is very much done and over and it's impossible to pretend otherwise. Someone asked in other chumbies are jumping ship - well, yes. I see familiar names in all sorts of places be it Idol or Phase, whom I watch the most. People are leaving but it's a slow exodus. It'll become noticeable in one go, a huge gaping hole, at some point in the future. That's how this plays out, there's a hard to define limit after which people organically check out.

In my eyes anyone who is still watching HoloEN (or Nijisanji for that matter) is either wasting their time, operating under sunk cost fallacy or just has no taste whatsoever. HoloEN in particular doesn't let the girls do anything, absolutely anything fun or experimental or interesting. The sheer weight of dullness and boredom emanating from their streams is like Prozac. And they're out of touch on top of that. Mori never knew what the fuck she's doing, Ame lost track of who pays her bills, Kroni is probably a troon in the making and Gura just doesn't care anymore. EN management has no goddamn idea what to do, and males decisively proved that. There is no way to salvage anything at this point imo. Kiara is the only one out of Myth who actually deserves respect and has an unsullied reputation. I truly wish her the best.

Vtubing as a whole is doing great though, and it's all due to small corpos and indies. HoloEN and Nijisanji both filtered and destroyed themselves into irrelevancy in my eyes, and I just see nothing there worth watching or getting involved with anymore.

>>46531622
arrivederci

>>46527272
>she played my childhood memory wrong! Why is she not taking it super seriously?!

>>46531622
Based effortposter, I read all of it.

>>46530495
Anon...it's ok to dislike her but Mori has a ton of music shit going on. Kiara is still workshopping her first album.

The voices tell me this thread is made by nijisanji bots

>>46531622
this, so much fucking this. You get hololive or nijisanji and it's like you're choosing fucking mcdonalds or burger king when there's a fucking five star rated mom and pops burger joint next door.

>>46531798
I can't comment on the Super Metroid streams, but it's nice when a streamer makes a proper effort to engage with a game.

>>46532014
Indies and small corpos aren't that good

>>46531622
>Vtubing as a whole is doing great though, and it's all due to small corpos and indies. HoloEN and Nijisanji both filtered and destroyed themselves into irrelevancy
what's funny is your not entirely wrong about this, despite how much seethe this kind of statment could cause. I started watching Neuro-sama recently and it's scary how much more fun I had with a fucking AI tuber and her Indie friends than I did with HoloEN for the past couple months.

wait a minute

>>46531622
Also, I need to add this as well:

There is no prestige or opportunity associated with joining Hololive or Nijisanji anymore. If you're an indie thinking of joining a corpo, or just starting out, your choice should be one of the small corpos. HoloEN is incompetently led and there's obvious bad blood between the management and the talents, the talents themselves (we will never know the details of this for obvious reasons), the management is incompetent, and you'll be boxed in in regards to your content and style. MORE importantly than all of that however is the expectations. Any theoretical new Gen will be saddled with the immense weight of fan expectations to revitalize and save the branch, and no matter what you do or do not do you will fall short of fan expectations. As for Niji, joining that utter clusterfuck instantly puts you in this or that clique and you'll have to essentially play office politics - for no reward. Niji's talents are utterly expendable and spammed, and you will have no true support or opportunities to establish yourself. And even if you do establish yourself and do great things like Pomu, Rosemi, Elira, Selen, Rosemi and Petra did who singlehandedly kept the branch alive and fought to establish it in the West during the days of utter HoloEN dominance you'll be thrown aside the moment something shinier and more profitable comes along.

Ergo, fuck both companies. Find your chuuba fortune literally anywhere else.

>>46532199
gymbag

>>46529494
There's really nothing wrong with Bae, but people ignore her because she doesn't support their narrative of "Collabs with males, crashes and burns." She continues to do pretty well.
Mori and Kronii are crashing and burning because they're both genuinely unpleasant people and it's becoming more and more obvious as time goes on.

>>46518945
who this?

>>46532602
heartheartheart

>>46518745
Something happened mid-July last year that directly coincides with a sharp decline. Wonder what that could have been..

>>46518745
real question
how is it declining?

>>46529629
Vshojo was never competition no matter how much try to play it off as such.
They are a tiny company with a handful of talents and while their audience is large for their size, it's not noticeably shared with HoloEN's pool. Neither groups numbers even dip when the other is pulling a large stream.

>>46532199
Oh yeah, I noticed that too. I casually watched maybe two or three streams and her surreal statements with an occasional on point reply just create this dreamlike atmosphere that has a lot of appeal. It's actually fun and engaging. And that's devastating to say when you're comparing her to actual people and finding that she's actually better.

>>46518745
From what I have observed, the big slowdown seemed to happen during mid 2022. Late 2021 was great: we got a new addition with Irys and Council which picked up spirits after Coco graduated in July. It seemed like things were looking up for a good while.

Then things started feeling off. Gura slowed down her streaming for whatever reason. Then came Sana's graduation. Not only that, but it seemed like for whatever reason, Cover wasn't as keen on investing in EN as much as the other branches. We didn't get a Myth 3D until almost two years after debut, discounting the scrappy 3D's they put together by themselves. We still haven't gotten Council 3D. Management seems out of touch, for example, Kronii had to get a new manager after her old one just wouldn't do jack shit to get her perms for stuff.

I see a lot of people talking about the homos, but in all honesty this slowdown was happening well before Tempus arrived on the scene. Though if there is one gripe I have about Stars EN it is that Cover and Yagoo seem to really be investing in them given that we got another gen of Stars EN mere months after the first one came on the scene. The myth girls had to wait over a year for Council. I feel like Cover jumped the gun and should have been investing in the girls given that they have needed some hard earned investment over the past year.

To sum it up, I think it boils down to the multiple graduations (Coco, Rushia and Sana) lowering morale, lack of investment compared to other branches, and long breaks which I can only speculate (unless confirmed to do with surgery, as per Kronii) have to do with burnout or coincidence. While I am not dooming, as the kids would say, I also cannot deny that mid-2022 to early 2023 has been a lackluster time period for HoloEN.

>>46532588
That's definitely false for HoloEN. It's a huge opportunity for any vtuber; it's just that Council didn't do anything interesting with it. As for NijiEN, even a non-popular new member like Maria gets to release cool stuff like her newest cover.

>>46532651
Kronii will forever always be a grey area for people after her constant meltdowns and public contempt for her fans. Calli will just always be known as "that shitty white rapper horse girl" by most people, including those IN the Holo sphere. BUT, she still has the JP audience, as apparent by HoloFES

>>46532651
it's about expectations. ollie, mori, bae, people knew what to expect. with ame and kronii not so much

>>46532588
>There is no prestige or opportunity associated with joining Hololive or Nijisanji anymore.
See, you had some really good points, but this is just not true.

>>46532651
>Kronii
>Crashing and burning
What constitutes crashing and burning? Because she pulled so many people into her singing stream, even more than Kiara who was streaming at the same time.

I've actually stopped watching cover and anycolor and gone back to watching just old streamers i used to watch, and some indies.. I don't understand how i got into them so much in the first place, holo and niji products are just so...plastic. Almost inhuman. And that is exactly what they are really, products to be shuffled and sold. They don't have to do anything or stream because everything about them is made for brainless consoomers.

>>46532786
Anons in this thread are saying that Tempus caused HoloEN to recline. Maybe that’s partially true, but I really think it was just the catalyst for a bunch of people who were drifting away to stop caring.
For me, personally, it was just there not being many streams and things not being exciting, and having to hear the fucking arguments. I just got tired of that. I believe for a lot of others, it was disgust that Cover was wasting time and money on something nobody wanted instead of improving things in HoloEN.

>>46518745
Western laziness. Streams are sporadic and inconsistent. Good luck getting one of them to post a weekly schedule.

even uyu mogged nijisanjiEN

>>46532982
>almost inhuman
Anon, I wish. If they acted less human, they’d be more like anime girls.

>>46523178
>What are you trying to prove here? Fubuki sold out? Fuck outta here nigga
60 IQ post, big retard energy

>>46533092
>1st Anniversary

>>46521379
I don't know, trying force a relationship with Callie despite the former being clearly not interested was pretty socially retarded.

>>46533077
>Western laziness. Streams are sporadic and inconsistent. Good luck getting one of them to post a weekly schedule.
It's not "Western laziness" because Western chuubas from actually fully Western corpos post schedules and stream regularly. This bullshit with no streams and no schedules is exclusively a HoloEN thing and it reaches its apex in Gura. To make matters ridiculous by contrast Pippa for instance has no schedule but streams regularly. You always know there IS going to be a stream even if you don't know what it'll be. Other PC chuubas post schedules though.

And when there's not going to be a stream they at least fucking communicate it to their fans. To decipher whether or not Gura will be streaming you have to read the entrails of a sacrificed goat and have a solid grasp of astrology. The situation with her became so bad during the last year that I inverted my desire for her to stream into wanting her to not stream so I can watch my usual, regular, punctual chuuba with whom she overlaps, because if Gura does stream I feel obliged to watch her out of meaningless loyalty.

>>46518745
How is it declining? Real question.

>>46518745
>fights between holoEN and management that got worse over time
>radio silent "health" breaks and general decline in morale
>fewer streams with less enthusiasm while having to shill merch

>>46524405
>Other than Kiara none of them are interested in doing anything outside that walled garden
Mori all the time?

>>46533499
>>46533499
You're either a newfag or is just coping...

>>46533019
If it were just a matter of people drifting away I don't think we would be talking about this. fans will always come and go. The bigger issue is that it seems like the girls themselves are drifting away. Like what happened that made Gura not stream as much? Why does it seem like everyone is going on these constant breaks? Why aren't there as many collabs as there used to be? Is it all just an unfortunate coincidence or is it something else? I worry that this trend will continue and we may never know why.

>>46533403
It's called corporate yuri and its all keyfabe, something Mori was supposed to know and something every single weeb is familiar with since it's a cultural staple. The fact you don't know what was going on showcases your utter absence of genuine interest into anime and everything adjacent to it. In other words, you are just like Mori. She was never meant for vtubing and has no idea what was expected of her and so on and on.

If kiara ever calls it quits or has another sad pouring her heart moment in a members stream I'll probably leave with her.

>>46533491
Stop being shackled to gura retard. You know in your heart of hearts that you've oshihened already. Just fucking make the switch already.

>>46533621
calm down. i'm just legit out of the loop. are their subscribers tanking or something?

>>46533491
That was another of her sleight-of-hand maneuvers. She defined scheduling as consisting of a list of specific stream games and topics along with the days and times, and eliminated them after complaining about being indecisive about which games or topics to schedule. The goal was to eliminate the streams.

>>46532070
that only happens if the streamer likes the game or story, are we going to forget the blunder or Ame dropping automata? Or Gura dropping multiple games and Ina too? they all have dropped games when they don't get invested in the gameplay or story, some are considered masterpieces, but if they don't like them we can't force them to like them.
I survived Ina not understanding Half Life 2 and dropping Black Mesa and Elden Ring; I survived Gura dropping GTAV, Metroid and Devil May Cry 4... maybe they get depressed because they can't share the games they actually like on stream like in the case of Gura and Muse Dash...

>>46533403
Bro do you not understand a tsundere dynamic? They're literally death and an immortal, it was kayfabe.

You cannot be this stupid or socially inept.

>>46533967
Sure that's fine. I guess one problem with Hololive is that they'll tend to give excuses as to why they stopped streaming those games instead of just saying they didn't really get into it.

>>46527601
how is this an insult? i fucking love olive garden. also east side marios. endless soup and salad. the soup there was the bomb. and on a financial POV you just fill up on soup and salad or bread sticks, then get your food to go for lunch the next day.

>>46527551
too much effort, tummy hort, WiFi short, stinkies.

>>46534192
oh, i know you love olive garden.

I'm so bored of Hololive and idol shit. Can someone recommend an actually entertaining Niji EN streamer? No GFE, no cringey chipmunk voices - I just want to watch someone funny who makes interesting content, not just girls who go "MWAH" after getting a superchat and play nothing but Minecraft. Is there anyone who fits the bill?

>>46534132
Don't get me wrong, I like them, but I can't stop being critic of them and I haven't had much fun in EN streams, the only genuine laugh I had was in that Fauna Eurotruck simulator stream

People here are making a lot of mental gymnastics, but I have to be sincere with myself, I'm not having fun with EN, right now, plus they don't stream, while they are not streaming I had to look for other options and I found them.

Now I watch phase connect, idolcorp, other indies, asmr streamers and Neuro, a literal AI that spouts nonsense but heck I'm actually having fun, and they stream ofc. And if they like a game they say it and if the game is shit they say it like it is... and if they need to get some time for themselves they tell that to their fans instead of ghosting them for months, so yeah the market is not the same and holo EN not streaming is not a good strategy despise what the cover dicksuckers are saying, these threads are becoming more common because there is some clear discomfort and people know they can't say this in the respective communities or else they will get chastised and look down upon by other members or simps, but I'm always been a lone wolf, so I'm fine saying it here, the good will of the people is over. And there are plenty of options for entertainment out there.

>>46524911
This is the only correct answer.
Everything about the work ethic, personalities, male drama, or anything else spewed in this thread is nothing new compared to the morally bankrupt twitch culture. People are more used to being cucks than the threadwatchers think. The numbers you see EN get these days are the actual normal and they will settle to these numbers faster if they dont debut at the peak of the pandemic.
>b-but JP
This board is so used to vtubers that they dont understand how weird and uncanny vtubers are to the average layman. The weeb sphere of influence IS the foundational culture that opens up an audience for vtubers. That's why JP and ID numbers are not affected as badly. In an alternate history where CN is still around and KR exists they wont be much affected as well, while possible branches with weaker japanophile cultures like IN or EU will fall like EN.

>>46534778
Zaio- wait....

>COVID restrictions lifted
>Sense of unity and comradery for both groups dropped off hard
>Increased competition in the EN sphere
>Acting like a clutz and stupid to be cute only works for so long before it becomes grating
>Treating their fans like shit after doing male collabs
It doesn't help it feels like watching all the girls on repeat at this point, the same games/FOTM, same act, same everything with some personality differences. It feels like they're all just coasting and don't really give a fuck anymore.

>>46527220
There is such a thing as a middle ground between a new wave every 3 months and no new gen for almost 2 years

>>46534778
I had a lot of fun with Pomu and Nina's Metal Gear streams and Finana's recent Your Turn to Die playthrough. Wouldn't really call them funny though, just engaging and interesting.

Mori's massive weight dragged everyone else down

>>46532964
Karaokes are a consistently popular stream format and Kronii doesn't sing much. Of course people wanted to see it.

>>46520915
>Kiara's game lineup is top-tier
Roru, rumao, and kusa kfptranny. Nobody besides her gachis will watch stream #8 of mid-fotm-jrpg.

>>46523178
No he is saying that Ina is a sellout you fucking retard, since cutting your superchat in half because of principle is the exact opposite of being a sellout

>>46524840
>EN Marine
>EN Lui
>EN Polka
>EN Mio
Finally, a reason to watch HoloEN again...

>>46535408
Ina streamed dozens of Elden Ring streams which she can't monetize, because she doesn't care about money.

>>46518745
A house divided against itself cannot stand
>but Kiara only had Ame
no, she also had Sana, and Mori and Ina were nothing more than ignorant NPCs

>>46518745
>Frequent gaps inbetween streams
>Frequent breaks
>Sanas abrupt graduation
>General decline in vtubers overall
Biggest reasons.
And no, its not because of Tempus, they were already on the decline even before they debuted.

>>46518745
Twitch simp Mori

Keeping a core audience boils down to the personality of the streamer. Basically, the people that tune in to almost every stream just because you're there and don't give a shit what exactly you're doing. But on top of that, you also need to find ways to continue gathering new viewers, because audiences will naturally filter out. So while continuing to be entertaining and engaging with your audience, you should also be trying new or strange things every once in a while.
Corp VTubers undoubtedly get a boost on debut, but those sub numbers rarely keep once the audience finds out exactly what your personality/tendencies are.

>>46533092
what does latina bathwater taste like?

>>46518745
There isn't really a decline, but if there's anything at all, it's because we got used to COVID and everyone else went to back to work.

>>46521379
Many of the Hololive (not that it's exclusive, it's just the biggest) fandom on 4chan are evil, hateful people who are incapable of regulating their emotions. The anonymity of this site and the internet in general enables them to do this with impunity, and emboldens them when they're not immediately punished.

If a normal person is annoyed, they change the channel.
If anon is annoyed, he creates several threads about it, harasses the talent through social media, and pats himself on the back when they break down crying.

>>46518745
It's been years, is it honestly surprising people have gotten tired of the same old content except more sparse? Fans are tired, the talents are tired and Cover being a Japanese company is making absolutely no attempt to innovate, unfuck their perms situation or do anything really. The most we could have hoped for was more girls to mix some of the dynamics up a little bit but they didn't even do that.

I used to try and keep up to date on almost all of myth but nowadays I only religiously watch every stream of my oshi (it isn't hard she barely streams) and the odd Ame or Fauna stream if they are doing something interesting. We definitely need EN3 to mix things up but speaking honestly I don't think I am ever going back to the days of trying to keep up with all the girls. A big part of it is the fact that they used to play with each other regularly now more often than not they are in their own bunkers just doing solo gaming, I think minecraft around council debut and rust arc were some of the best times recently. If EN3 has great group chemistry and actually regularly collabs I might start caring about wider holoEN again.

>>46530495
Mori has albums coming out all the goddamn time, what are you smoking?
You can bitch and whine about how they all suck if you're running low on copium, but at least live in reality.
A few more if you include her roommate...

>>46534899
> but I have to be sincere with myself, I'm not having fun with EN, right now, plus they don't stream
It was a little concerning how easy I found it to admit this once I finally realized. And then, a few weeks of wandering in the wilderness until I too fell down the Phase rabbit hole…

>>46534986
i believe this. i don't think people realize what a bubble we are contained in. go to work, ask anyone if they know what a vtuber is. even my friends from my earlier days in my 20's who do like anime and have been to japan with, they don't even get vtubers. this is a really niche hobby.

>>46536191
Mahler consomme mixed with flax seed.

>>46536659
It’s why I don’t really care about twitch indies whoring up the hobby. Good for them, and I hope they can do it while also being entertaining, since that’s more sustainable.
We’re EN. We don’t get to choose. We take what we can get because there’s not enough weebs to sustain anything respectable. Like, the very fact that we have /lig/tubers and neuro-sama and stuff is already amazing considering how utterly insignificant as a vtuber market we are.
If you want vtubers who actually market towards weebs, it’s HoloEN or small corpos. That’s really the closest we can get until other weeb shit is strong enough to do more tie-ins with vtubers—and I mean more than just global servers for gachashit that’ll just close down in less than a year.

>>46535086
Don't be like that. She needs that weight when she's horsing around.

Clearly something is going on behind the scenes at Cover that is seeping into the talent’s desire to perform. Maybe some of the want to pursue things other than streaming like Mori with her music. That’s fine. But when no one wants to stream, they are clearly phoning it in when they do, and group dynamics are standoffish, that is indicative of Cover mismanagement. If everyone on the boat won’t row, the problem is with the captain.

My hypothesis is that Cover’s EN management is basically nonexistent and they have no oversight of the limited people they have due to the language and time barrier. Cover EN are incompetent, sleazy, or both and the girls obviously react to that. Cover JP is then chalking up their behavior to muh lazy westerners and won’t push the issue unless numbers go bad (remember, they’re still making tons of money).

Cover went from a small tech company pursuing actual idol shit just with VR to a massive vtuber powerhouse in a few short years and is in way over their heads with managing it. I mean, look how they pursue these fruity projects like that Holo VR shit when any entertainment company with half a brain would be building ad sponsorships, music projects, IRL events and so on. These girls get millions of views and retain a loyal fan base. Companies would pay Cover tens of millions to get access to that, if it was packaged correctly. I mean Jesus even vshojo can sell that gamer drink shit. You may say that’s selling out but that is literally what they do already, just really cheaply and incompetently.

>>46521379
>but personality wise she's not socially retarded and is usually the tard wrangler. Her bluntness isn't even detrimental as she's hardly rude to anyone.
These barely matter in solo content where her exhaustingly needy personality either makes her your oshi or drop her fast

>>46532895
The part about Hololive really isn't true, there's still a ton of prestige associated with the company. The part about Nijisanji isn't wrong though.
You're joining a Japanese company with more restrictions and cons than there are benefits. Yeah you get a huge debut with an exclusive song and a fancy model, but there's not much outside that. Birthday merch is the definition of soulless factory produced shit, you have just as much limitations on what you can play due to permissions, and there can be a good amount of internal competition because there's too many talents in the EN branch at this point and the audience isn't expanding, they're fighting for time and money. Then as the cherry on top you're dealing with with an incredibly volatile fanbase and management that as the Zaion situation showed that can turn on you on a dime.

Calling it a pyramid scheme is too mean, but unless you're a starving 2/3 view then there's no reason to join nowadays. You're basically letting someone take a cut of your money, you're sort of an accessory to longer members, there's too much restrictions and incompetent management, you're better off either staying indie if you're at least 250+ viewers on average, or joining a growing small corpo.

>>46518745
Management.
Myth showed in 2021 they could competently self organise, but clearly the talents have become unmotivated to work for cover

>>46518945

>>46537562
Given the way NijiEN blew up with Luxiem, my theory is that they’re going with ACCELERATE in order to have as many vtubers experiment with content to grow the potential market as possible. Just like how Luxiem figured out males, they want to get people that don’t watch Hololive to watch them…even if it means getting a bunch of kpop stans and shitting the branch up.
Either way, if you’re joining NijiEN at this point, you’re surrendering part of your superchats and other income to that corpo to be their guinea pig for free. If you were already planning to not do normal vtuber shit, then yeah, I guess that might be a good idea. If you‘re not trying to do whatever NijiEN thinks is the way to expand the market (pander to normalfags), then no, definitely not worth it.

>>46518745
Because no one streamed most of the first half of last year which drove away majority of the audience that werent obsessed with one specific girl.
No one but Kiara and Fauna (in the second quarter of the year) streamed. You had weeks in a row where the schedule for each day was 9 am to 3 pm was kiara... Then no other stream for the day.
The reason Fauna went from second to third last of council to most viewed council is because she came back and proceeded to stream which let her catch some of the audience that was slowly leaving the holobubble.
It's also why Kaela is so popular. People were so desperate for streams they went to "better Kronii" who at the time barely knew english and was spamming league.
The stuff that happened after like tempus was just the death wails of an already leaving audience that decided to slam the door on the way out.

>>46518745
COVID is over.

>>46532135
mom and pop shops arent that good either anon, the difference is in the esthetics and the lower attention.

>>46535632
Okay did she become Elden lord?

>>46538701
Yes

>>46530495
absolute retard
mori released 40 fucking songs last year, if that's not a music career, i dont know what is, you fucking mongoloid

>>46537894

Ok but english speaking nip chuubas is a pretty good idea

>>46532662
>>46532662

>>46531534
>clown cult
seeing this shit often, the new cope because clown is doing great? tranny please, the girls are the ones with actual cults. literally have thousands of members just willing to give them money for jackshit. at least the fucking clown streams and is mildly entertaining. hard mode, he doesn't pander like the nijiboys.

>>46518745
Themselves

>>46521985
>irys recording hell
What the fuck? When was her last song? How would one be in recording hell without releasing songs? Fucking Mori does her songs and can still stream just fine. Is she so bad at singing that they need multiple takes for a song and that's why she's on this "recording hell"? KEK

>>46539608
NTA but what he is means is that around november 2021 once restrictions started lifting management made Irys start recording a bunch of songs over and over to the point her throat got fucked up and she couldn't stream.
And she spent months since then trying to recover but she still had to do more songs leading to her having to keep going to the doctors for stronger medicine. During this she didn't have the ability to stream consistently.
The difference from Calli is that Irys Vsinger contract is not her making songs but Management Omega which is why they all sound similar and generic. She has complained several times on stream and her rm about this and the whole model,3d, no concerts etc. She has also said a couple times she wishes she wasn't a vsinger anymore but a regular vtuber like the rest of EN.
It has gotten better but I am pretty sure that's because management is focusing on Tempus.

>>46534082

Ah yes, Calli being visibly uncomfortable every time Kiara tried something was totally tsundere and not her cringing. It's amazing you can get past the captcha with that intellect of yours.

>>46518745
Like everything there isn't a single reason but here somes :
- no streams
-More concurence
-The fanbase turning more and more obnoxious judgemental lefty vestoid retardation
-starsEN
Probably around the 4 big reasons of the decline i would say.

>>46519145
>>46520915

https://files.catbox.moe/svta01.jpeg

they also re-discovered their cock-time so expect a lot of "breaks" and fewer streams till the cuck-base accepts the cane-beatings and new future

>>46518745
>Decline
What decline? Explain
Growth have slowed down a bit, but they’re still number one and still stronger than ever. There is no decline.

>>46531106

recently, in the Ina collab, the girls poked fun at Kroni in particular for being horni but coming from other loose holes renders it moot

>>46534082
there was nothing tsundere about it. even after kiara left back to her home and she had that breakdown where calli felt really distant and asking "was all the time spent together not real". no, kiara, it wasn't. i do believe though, now that the yuribaiting has stopped that they have become actual friends

>Decline
Numbers are fine, and the nijisisters should stop doomposting about it because it's pretty sad at this point. That said, I stopped enjoying EN's content a long while ago.
They lack passion, original ideas and specially collabs. It was not a coincidence that the peak of EN content happened when they still played minecraft together.
Just take a look at the JP and ID sides, you can easily tell how much they love fucking around in minecraft with their friends, and that positive attitude creates tons of amazing content. They are happier, motivated and are having fun streaming.
The EN members are just too isolated, at this point their collabs are almost seen as a huge event, when they are just an expected daily occurrence everywhere else.

>>46521290
LMAO botan and Polka are not fucking 40+. Gtfo. The oldest are like mid to late 30s and there's only like 2 at best.

>>46523353
Ayame never had more than a few weeks without activity, and she gave reasons for streaming so little on her own account which her fans accepted; and even more than Gura, she's too cute to be angry at her.
The only thing you could argue is that she'd be one of the biggest holos if she streamed consistently, and her synergy with her model plus her raw talent makes even her debuff numbers big.

>>46531622
>/thread
This.
We're done here.

>>46531622
>anyone who is still watching HoloEN (or Nijisanji for that matter) is either wasting their time, operating under sunk cost fallacy or just has no taste whatsoever.
What an utterly retarded thing to say. It's a waste of time if someone likes the content they are watching? If it is then literally anyone that has ever watched anything ever is wasting their time. Sunk cost fallacy? No such thing. People either watch because they like it or they don't. No taste? Completely subjective, but in my opinion it sounds like you have no taste.

>>46518745
HoloEN reclined because they defy conventional streaming rules and there's no counterbalance to their actions as a result. Outside of Fauna (who largely just inherited a part of Ina's audience while she was on a hiatus and when Ina came back, they went back to her for the most part), no one has ever inclined. On the other hand, you can leave for months and get back to the very same people cheering you on without effort. In such a situation, why would you try unless you have ambitions further than streaming?
If someone got into EN3 and she's /here/, I've got one piece of advice: make the first 50-60 days count. If you do that, you can do just about anything afterwards without repercussions regarding your popularity. If you don't, well, good fucking luck.

it's even weirder because somehow JP has to push EN to cons, fes and organize an overseas concert, and even has A-chan learn to English to do streams. EN is clearly not shunned.
but it's like they don't have control over the EN streaming situation an try to salvage this at a macro level. i don't get it

>>46518745
They're all sluts who can't contain their contempt for the audience. That manifests in infrequent and uninspired streaming, bitchy behavior towards their groomed paypigs and dragging their feet doing projects. They love the attention and money though, they just hate (you) for existing and they need that to make them feel not guilty.

>>46526850
The "right support system" for Mumei would be letting her be a stupid view-killing creep going orcschizo mode and sheltering her from backlash, anything else fucks with her retarded little aspergers head.

>>46535830
Looking at images like this, I'm glad Nijisanji doesn't get as much attention as Hololive. So many schizos on the Hololive side. Say what you will about Nijichads, but at least we don't have to worry about unhinged people like this.

>>46518745
Genuinely?
Management. They do everything to debuff the girls
>male debuts
>then collabs with said males and inserting the everywhere
>blocking gura's ideas so that she doesnt grow her channel (god forbid that)
>butchering gura's projects so that again she doesnt incline by any chance
Basically yagoo hired a bunch of antis who sabotaged the brand and thats why it doesnt incline or failed basically. Absolute incompetence from the people managing holo EN

>>46518846
Look a littlre bit deeper into the question. WHy dont they stream. There is a reason and it;s management. Management is stopping them from streaming by butchering their projects and saying no to ideas and games.

>>46518745
>No streams
>No EN3
>Homos

>>46518745
because this post is made by Nijifaggot

>>46543632
>t. nijifaggot deflecting from meaningful discussion

>>46543579
You really think they can't just say "no" to collabs? LMAO. Stop blaming management when it's clearly their own fault.

>>46540333
This post is some real /pol/tard ESL gibberish.

>>46528336
You're underage, stop giving me your worthless opinion. Stupid cunt.

>>46543680
what does my post have anything to do with your reply? what collabs?

>>46518745
Tempiss and no new gen

>>46522826
Yep this right here also include Prism

>>46543476
Nah you just hate browsing Twitter and the other places, 4chan is your little hugbox.

desu it's just retarded management.
>Making a faggot branch instead of EN 3, because management doesn't understand we're here for cgdct
>Add a bunch of retarded chuuni lore because management doesn't understand we're only here for cgdct
>Omegatranny in his entirety.
>Picking people who don't care about Hololive to work Hololive. People like Mori and miss "Unfortunately Idol culture is a thing" who are only here because it's lucrative.
>All kinds of minor questionable decisions by management that add up. Giving Irys a godawful model and waiting a year to change it, not letting Coco collab with EN, scolding Gura for asking for permission for too many games, it all adds up over time.

I think occam's razor here is just that Cover hired retards to run EN and because the Hololive business model works so well they're successful, but the more time passes the more problems accumulate.

>>46543845
>then collabs with said males and inserting the everywhere
If they didn't want to do it, they could have said no. I think that deep down you want to continue liking them but you're deranged about the male thing so you have to blame SOMEONE for it so that the girls can remain pure and innocent. A sane person would say "It doesn't matter that she chose to collab with males, because I still like her."

>>46522826
>>46544020
People who go to Phase while hating VSJ and Niji are comical. Kawaii and Prism I would understand. But Phase? LOL. Clowns.

Tempus killed it. Everything else would be fixable with another gen. CGDCT was the distinguishing feature of Hololive and there's no going back. Now they're competing against every other streamer and most people won't pick them. Stupid choice that ruined the brand.

>>46544822
The true kronii who is better than kronii while not being kronii.

>tfw just watch year old clips of Gula playing horror games

>>46533967
That is why Subaru is superior to all of EN, it’s amazing watching her get super invested in each game she plays and geek out just as much as we did back in the day. Certainly can tell the difference between a true gamer like her and Korone and the EN posers.

>>46518745
One two punch of a change in the YouTube algorithm and bad management killed talent motivation.

>>46523353
Ayame rarely streams but when she do, her stream can last for hours and that's without the superchat reading. Superchat reading pushes her stream more for an hour or two, and she's really good at interacting with her chat unlike Gura who basically just stream for an hour without reading the chat.

>>46530449
I don't think Kronii was intentionally trying to insult her fans, she was just so flabbergasted at a culture she didn't understand that she said and went with rather tone-deaf responses like 'don't you have any female friends?' and reading out chapters from a self-help book on parasocial relationships. I do think she meant to do well but it was a role she wasn't comfortable doing and came off poorly.

>>46530495
Mori has a record deal with Universal and constantly pumps out music you fucking retard

Go back to the Nijitroon containment

>>46532786
>We didn't get a Myth 3D until almost two years after debut, discounting the scrappy 3D's they put together by themselves. We still haven't gotten Council 3D.
I know EN fans don't like to hear this but that was due to Covid and Seniority. Hololive was never gonna do Myth 3D until ID Gen1 got their 3D done and ID 3D, just like Myth's, got repeatedly pushed back until last Fall.
In the same way, we won't see Council 3D until ID Gen2 get their 3D shown.

I hate white women so much it's unreal

>>46533491
>The situation with her became so bad during the last year that I inverted my desire for her to stream into wanting her to not stream so I can watch my usual, regular, punctual chuuba with whom she overlaps, because if Gura does stream I feel obliged to watch her out of meaningless loyalty.
I know this feeling all too well, this is the first step in abandoning your oshi for something else.

>>46548663
>HoloX debuts 3D and idol outfits before any of that happens
sugoi

>>46536659
>even my friends from my earlier days in my 20's who do like anime and have been to japan with, they don't even get vtubers. this is a really niche hobby.
This especially, when I fell into the rabbit hole I tried to drag in some of my fellow anime friends and was surprised that none of them wanted anything to do with vtubers.
'I get it but also don't, maybe I'm getting too old for this'
Its been kinda weird since out of this group I was the least 'weeb' one years ago but now I'm the only one that got into vtubing.

>>46518945
They need sp,epme who understands hype. Or at least get a man in charge not a woman not a low-t male

>>46548083
>went with rather tone-deaf responses like 'don't you have any female friends?'
Like how people always omit the part where this in particular was directed at the people sending her superchats congratulating her for getting into a relationship with the blue man, almost like they wouldn't have good catalog bait if they didn't remove the context

>>46541204
I think at this point its like 1/3 of JP is under 25, 1/3 is between 25-30 and another 1/3 is 30-38.