/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>43405039
>Livers get salaries
The fuck? Since when?

>>43405223
those are comissions not salaries

>Niji didn't list out all the detail in their 買掛金, nor it really means all the money that will go to liver
>I-it must be two times more so we win
Literal mental illness

>>43405039
>Livers
our cloning technology is still not perfect, so it must be done manually

>>43405223
yeah, everytime you retard give them a superchat. They take less than 35% of it, the other goes to youtube and corporation (taxes not include).
And they get paid at the end of the month.

>>43405273
>Niji didn't list out all the detail
prove it faggot

>>43405391
So they dont have salaries

>>43405579
slave get reward not salaries

>>43405039
Counterpoint, they earn what they are worth

>>43405039
Who cares, rikusama is going to buy his 4th Yacht this year, now how many yachts does Yagoo have?

>>43405579
The Holols have a very, very small salary but it pales in comparison to the income they get from superchats, memberships, merch, adsense, etc.
I don't think the Nijis get anything.

>>43405692
*nijis don't get a salary. They get the rest of that stuff, obviously.

>>43405692
There's nothing indicating this in Cover's IPO document, not even a small salary. Maybe it's time to stop lying.

>>43405039
they are the call of duty of vtubers, not surprising when you have that massive amount of talents

>>43405777
Are you a newfag? The girls have talked about receiving a tiny salary before. Especially back when it took longer for their channels to become monetized.

>>43405499
OK you got me, I did remember it wrong
But 買掛金 only means the money owed by a business to its suppliers at the moment, it has nothing to do with the actual money that goes to talents.

>>43405039
Not this asshole but here's for cover. The talent gets a cut for all revenue streams. So support your oshis faggots!

Also the merch rrat is true too. The talents are paying off the product planning and development

>>43405922
>the girls
But Cover doesn't list it in their IPO document. Explain this then.
Also, the direct evidence you have is probably the Kanata one, but it can all be a help instead of "salary"

>>43405692
No retard no way do they give minimum wage to there talents and from what we know about there internal system it's very different then all of the industry the more responsibilities the talent takes the more revenue they get it's not surprising holos are such monsters at multitasking

ITT EOPs try to interpret third-hand accounts of JP financial documents that they know are incomplete. Impressive.

>>43406015
>>43406027
this is their revenue sharing scheme>>43405940
They basically get a cut from all revenue sources.

>>43405391
they actually earn MUCH less than 35%.

>>43406303
But what I mean is the mystery "salary" which claimed to exist by many EOP throughout the year.
Why didn't Cover write it in the IPO? It should be a part of their cost in their business model. Does it really exist?

>>43406498
It did exist, many holos talked about it before. Does it still exist now? No idea.

>>43405940
>Also the merch rrat is true too. The talents are paying off the product planning and development
>rrat
they have come out and said it many fucking times, perhaps you should watch streams faggot

>>43406410
This would mean she's paying 80% in taxes

>>43406410
>still spreading this retarded misinformation

>>43406498
There was a time when they were paying a salary, but now most of them are self-sustaining, probably even JP holostars make enough through superchats/youtube ad revenew/merch that they don't need any extra compensation.

>>43406410
This is 100% a burger that made that image, for some reason burgers don't understand how taxes work.

>>43406410
Imagine putting the effort of making this poster kek.

>>43406776
>retarded misinformation
>source is literally Mori's stream
fuck off nijinigger

>>43406578
The only "legitimate" one talking about it ts the Kanata one, which mentions she got some money when she struggled with monetization, but it can be some kind of help. The others are almost impossible to distinguish whether it was their "salary" or their cut of the revenue.
>>43406782
And Niji had a salary too on its earliest day.
So either claim both don't have salary now or both had it before.

>>43406410
Mori is a special case

>>43406882
>>source is literally Mori's stream
So, retarded misinformation?

>>43406882
Post the source anon. We can send links here. By the way taxes don't work that way tard. Most Income taxes are based on net income not gross revenue

>>43406882
>source is a retard who paid double tax when she doesn't need to
>instantly cries niji
Fine example of her audience

>>43406410
You ridiculous moron. This is complete bullshit. No one is paying 80% of their income in taxes, you stupid fuck. Mori lied. There are treaties in place to make sure people aren't double taxed, you underaged dumbass.

>>43406882
At the time Mori wasn't aware of the US/Japan Income Tax Treaty, so yes, even though the info was indeed from Mori's stream, the info was wrong. Because Mori was wrong. She's very dumb, you see.

>>43406882
>a stream where it was revealed she grossly miscalculated her taxes and talked with accountants later that cleared it up
Every Deadbeat told her this was wrong as soon as she said it, and guided her to investigate the matter on her own and cleared it up later, so just keep that in mind.

>>43406882
>he's going to continue to double down on being wrong despite everyone telling him there are tax credit systems in place to make sure people aren't taxed twice.
>can't use his ridiculously smooth brain to come to the realization that if people had to pay 80% of their income in taxes, no one would be able to work overseas.
You are a literal brainlet.

>>43406743
She does pay around 70-75%

>>43406997
>>43407060
>>43407096
>>43407157
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU5zcWTmRZc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkjWTZaapQ

>provide sources
>even Moona talked about it in ones tream
>NOOOOH MORI BAD BECAUSE I DISLIKE MORI PINK WOMAN BAD AND STUPID
You chumniggers are insufferable.

>>43407060
It doesn't include tax return but that's what mori said.
>>43407182

>>43406410
Because Holos get better merch deals because the talent does the planning and development work, cover then helps with production costs and collects a little for royalties because of image and likeness. Several talents have talked about this.

Anykara does most of the merch themselves the talents make more money from voice packs because.

Everyone knows supahs are just tips and for the most part are seen as a bonus by talents from both companies. It's also why new talents who are often poorfags freak out about supahs then down the road start dumping merch and deemphasizing supahs. I have said it for 2+ years now. MERCH IS KING IT IS ALL THAT MATTERS for these companies Gura literally prints money it doesn't matter what her supahs and CCV is suck muh balls /#/.

>>43407188
>>43407227
Anon. I never said the distribution in the chart was wrong except for the taxes part.
The split is indeed 30/35/35 for Google/Cover/talent based on what several of the girls have said, however, your tax info is complete bullshit based on stupid shit that mori thought was the case.
Go look up the various tax treaties that the US and Japan have. Those are standard everywhere.
Seriously, use your fucking brain. Do you really believe that ANYONE is being taxed 80% of their income anywhere? No one would work if that were the case. You truly are a dumbass.

>>43407188
>Picrel.
>There is, in fact, a tax treaty: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/japan.pdf

Mori's indeed a fucking idiot and so are you.

>>43407453
>>43407390
>>43407227
>>43407364
>ITT: anons who have never been in Japan, never paid any taxes, do not speak Japanese, know nothing about company cuts and taxes pretend to be experts because pink woman bad.
neck yourselves

>>43407182
>>43407227
Stop spreading this bullshit. She is not paying 70-80% of her income in taxes, you stupid fool. It has nothing to do with tax returns. She is literally not taxed that much at any point. If she reported her income to the government and didn't tell them where it's from or consult a CPA because she's a fucking retard, then that doesn't mean that they are all being taxed that much. It would only mean that Mori is a fucking idiot.

>>43407526
Here. You stupid fuck. I did it for you. After you're done reading this boring shit, go jump off a bridge.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/japan-tax-treaty-documents

>>43407600
read
>>43407526

>>43407600
Anon, we're in SEA hours. There's no use trying to convince a retard.

>>43407526
Ywnbj

>>43407622
>I have no argument
I don't give a shit about Mori, anon. I don't hate her. I literally don't think about her.
But if you spent 5 minutes looking over the tax treaty that anons in this thread linked you, you'd realize how much of a stupid faggot you're being and understand it doesn't matter what Mori's "experience" is in Japan. Her account of her experience is demonstrably wrong.

Okay, now that Mori and anon are confirmed retards, let's get back to the main topic. >>43405039

>>43407757
>experience and recorded facts are wrong
>my feelings and links are right

>>43407800
Anon, if you're just stirring shit because you're bored we can play TicTacToe instead, if you want.

>>43407890
fair enough. I posted that image only because I wanted to stir shit anyway, and knew fucks would bite the bait.
btw, you lost

>>43407800
>feelings
>literally the US government's IRS website's official documents covering their tax system with regards to US citizens working in Japan. (i.e. Mori)
retard

>>43407941
>not picking the middle as your opening move.
That was a test, anon. And you failed that as well.

>>43407941
I still wanna try. lmao

>>43408024
Your move.
>>43408023
foolishness

>>43408083
There once was a point I was actually decent at this, believe it or not.

>>43405692
>>43405777
>>43406015
Fucking newfaggot tourists. Many of the girls (Coco, Kanata and Polka from the top of my head) have talked about having to survive with a meager salary before they got superchats enabled. And once they did start getting superchats, they got fucked by taxes.
Hell, even filthy eops have access to this info. I recall Coco's discussion of this being clipped.

>>43408180
It's a stalemate. Opening in one of the corners can only result in victory (if your opponent doesn't go for the middle) or a stalemate (if the opponent goes for the middle). As for the rest of the anons, they really need to learn to NOT reply to bait.

>>43408217
Then explain why it can't be found in the IPO document, please.

>>43408241
I think I see it coming too, yeah. I usually did the arrow shaped thing with the point in the centre which always kinda worked.

>>43408282
nta but from what it sounds like they get some support money upfront before they can get properly monetized on Youtube and that's about it?

>>43405039
This time for sure

>>43408303
well, that's it. anyway, I'm off. Had fun here, thanks anon. Remember, don't reply to baits.

>>43408241
you should've put the circle in the corner like this you retard

>>43408405
the board is in the sorry state, because of anons like this.

>>43408400
Same. GG anon.

>>43408334
That can be the case, but it can hardly be called a "salary"
All I want to say is there could be such a help system exists, or even "salary", but whatever it was, it surely doesn't exist in today's Hololive, which is proven by their IPO document

>>43408444
VICTORY

>>43408217
I literally said this. >>43405922

>fucked by taxes
Yes, you retarded brainlet. They got fucked by taxes because once they started getting their monetization, they started qualifying for the higher tax brackets because they became rich. Japan's highest tax bracket is around 40% after your first 40 million yen (currently ~$300k due to lowered yen valuation). However, they aren't getting 80% levels of fucked by taxes. That would be insane and wouldn't even make sense for the JP members.
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/japan/individual/taxes-on-personal-incom

>>43408571
*not sure why it didn't copy the e at the end.
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/japan/individual/taxes-on-personal-income

>>43407941
>and knew fucks would bite the bait.
Sometimes the bait-biters just want to stir shit too, you know.

>>43407182
>>43406743
That's because she was a fucking retard and didn't realize that you don't need to pay taxes in Japan AND the US, because they have a treaty with one another. She probably got one fuckin hell of a tax return after she reported her error.

>>43406410
Sad that the joke flew over everyone’s heads. I’m sorry anon. For the retards reading this: The joke is that Mori lies on stream about being taxed twice and that there is no JP-US tax treaty, despite that treaty being one of the most well-known tax treaties

>make a mistake
>schizos will say you’re lying

>>43409659
That raises a significant question.
If she truly didn't know about not having to pay that much in taxes, how was she surviving in Japan on her "reaper's" salary?
She would have been making significantly less, however paying double taxes on that much of a lower salary would still have made living in Japan impossible.

What's the correlation between having more vtubers and paying them more money?

>>43411737
Do you think faggot ESL with google's auto-machine translated of a japanese holobrony's JP article understand anything he posted?

I can't believe they don't get well paid with the fancy vacations they are always going on.

>Thead doesn't know what a compound interest is

>>43410819
Numbers are not a joke

>>43406882
>it comes from Mori's mouth so it must be true!
Imagine believing this

>>43406410
Mori said she talked to a guy in the US and she was dumb not talking to a professional before. This image is wrong

>>43413476
It was even less stupid than that. She has always had an accountant and she just parroted the 80% thing from a dumbass friend of hers. Within like 3 or 4 days she followed up on it and said she went to talk to her accountant about it and her accountant basically said "what the hell? No, you never were paying taxes that high". This board is retarded though and will regurgitate dead and rotting rrats like it's the truth for all eternity.

>>43406882
Mori is retarded, especially where taxes are concerned.

>>43407526
ok you are actually retarded

there sure is alot of retardation going on in this thread

>Nijisanji has people who have literally not streamed since debut and probably less than half of the talents have weeks as packed as the average Hololive talent's week, some just fucking off for months at a time
I hate Anycolor but I don't really blame them

fail smear attempt

>>43407526
Fine exemple of a retarded cuckbeat, can eve say she was wrong when she was both factually wrong, realised she was wrong, and got crazy benefit from being wrong. YASQUEEN total retardation.

A good portion of Nijisanji members are still working part time jobs.

>>43405391
This means that even when you have complete flops like some of the holostars, they still get paid. The female streamers are literally paying the salary of Flayon/hakka

>>43420177
She was never even paying that tax rate in the first place. She just believed her friends word for it and I guess she didn't question it since she was still seeing piles of cash go into her bank account.

>>43406410
The tax slice should be about twice as big to account for Cover and Jewtube's corporate taxes. About 2/3 of your akasupa goes to the governments.

>>43410904
We know it's not living off savings because she doesn't come from a rich enough family, especially with as much as Mori eats out/orders delivery. I think JET provides housing, but a boyfriend is the only thing that makes sense after she quit that.

>>43423950
She never was "double taxed" also I doubt she ate out before she got hololive money. She mentioned doing art commissions before hololive. She is a pretty good artist.

>>43423950
>but a boyfriend is the only thing that makes sense after she quit that.
I suppose, however it seems like she was never double taxed and instead she only ever thought she was being double taxed. >>43413931

>>43406303
Yes they do but they can increase or decrease there cut based on how much effort the talent put in,for eh if the talents design there own merch rather then getting it done from someone else they get a bigger cut then usual probably same applies to sololive since suisei talked about planning out the live

>sky is blue
wow OP that is so fucking surprising
no one had any idea

no wonder they have member literally begging for money and many of them treat this as part time job and they still have other job, keep accelerating and give no real support, their strategy literally just throwing shit to the wall and hope some of them sticks, just try to milk as much as possible truly a black company and a cancer polluting the vtuber industry

>>43405039
oh dear

>>43405039
>"I think"
>"it is possible"
sure

>>43406410
bait

>>43424157
if she was doing tax returns in japan and the USA without knowing about the USA/Japan Tax Treaty she definitely could have been double taxed. She'd probably get that back by filing an amendment return though now.

>>43432279
She has like 8 lines of income coming between vtubing and "other" stuff. She ain't doing her own taxes. Her accountant was doing everything correctly from the start, she is just dumb for listening to her friend.

>>43418779
Tsumugu....

>>43405223
Hololive pays a fixed salary on top of their share of their revenue.
Nijisanji only gets the revenue share. So if they're underperforming they have to look for a second job. See Kuroi Shiba begging viewers for donation to afford food and medicine after she lost her job.
This has been confirmed a million times by JP holos and Nijis talking about it.

>>43406882
>source is literally Mori's stream
Mori "I listened to it 50 times" Calliope?

>>43433755
literally discussed in this thread you didn't read

>>43434141
There's nothing to discuss, Look up old matsuri and hoshikawa streams. Unless you want to claim they're lying.

>>43434196
literally discussed in this thread too
start from here >>43408217

>>43405039
They base the pay on the demand/popularity of their streamers

>>43405303
do your reps. it is ライバー not レバー, Holomen also does not mean they are male....

>>43408471
I think both companies provife some semblance of debut package because some of them have high production lore and covers out the gate. Kotoka's 'G4L' cover looks like it cost a fortune.

I also think corpo vtubers just use terms incorrectly and /#/tards take it as gospel. Reimu mentioned streaming 'so she can have a salary' just a couple weeks ago when she likely just meant 'so I can get paid'.

Neither of these companies pay a fixed salary to what are essentially contract workers hired to be the voice of anime merchandise.

i love how much of a hateboner holofags supposedly have for nijisanji yet will always attack hololive vtubers more than any niji vtuber eger

>>43434864
That's pretty much what I am trying to say. But there're so many EOPs still think Hololive provides a fixed salary like retarded tribalfag >>43433755

>>43436372
>All the hololive JP lied
I'll believe them over some random retard on a mongolian throat singing board.

>>43436647
>All the hololive JP lied
Read >>43406893 and >>43408471 and then explain to me why big daddy Cover doesn't write anything about it in their IPO, please.

>>43436647
And you can provide a link with proof that isn't a post in this board, of course.
At this moment both sides of the argument are at "trust me bro" stage since they are claiming different members said contradicting things,

>>43436820
>>43436927

>>43436968
>no argument
I accept your confession.

>>43436968
concession accepted

>>43405273
So nijisanji broke the law?

>>43440455
>>43405937

>thread is about niji salary
>people still end up discussing mori somehow

>>43405223
Corpo's get a fixed salary plus bonuses on top of their performance, Coco said is equaled to about a half of the money that was donated to them.
This is a big reason why the girls can just take months off of work, they get paid even if they don't stream.
If they don't stream enough however, it starts affecting their managers and their pay.

>>43405039
>accounts payable
>relevant to compensation for employees
I just want to say, you people are retards

>>43413351
These people are like 15 anon

>>43441666
Sometimes I am amazed by how many retard in the catalog will reply to a thread without reading absolutely anything in that thread.

>>43442180
remind there are people like >>43408405 itt

Everyone uses 給料 (kyuryo) when talking about their payment, which clippers always translate to salary. However the word can also mean wages, pay, or remuneration. It doesn't always carry the meaning of salary, and even then it can be used colloquially rather having the strict meaning of a fixed amount. Coco used it when talking her and Kanata's first payment, Lui used it when talking about her first pay, Lamy used it when talking about how her compensation went negative during merch production, Matsuri also used it when talking about her income near her debut. I saw one clipper translate Laplus saying 給料 as paycheck but they put salary in the clip title.
When Kanata said she earned 20000 yen in Feb 2019, she was reading a chat message which used 月給, which does mean monthly salary. However it wasn't her words, it was from the chat message.

Eventually calling their pay a salary spread to english-speaking vtubers even though I bet they have no idea what the word salary actually means, because all the EN vtubers are retarded clipniggers along with everyone in this thread.

>>43405039
>Anykara black company confirmed
oh no

>>43444763
i know enough people who use words like 'wages', 'salary', and 'payment' completely interchangeably to intuitively guess something like this, but i'm glad some turbo-autist also has encyclopedic knowledge of relevent stream moments to back it up.

>>43405039
>Anykara black company confirmed
you're acting like this isn't common knowledge at this point.

>>43454202
kek, that's true

>>43454202
Doesn't stop the nijiniggers from denying it