/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>43057652
I'm completely new and I have a couple of questions:
Do you guys experience 3 FPS even on the menu screen or is just my pc (which is not even old and can run more demanding stuff)?
Should I go for unlocking characters first or just upgrades and then go for gachas?

Can't bring myself to go back to this, the magic is over

>>43057863
There can be performance issues, but that level sounds unusual.
Unless you have an absolute favorite character in mind, upgrades.

Do the flower and slow stamps stack with Miko's debuffs?

>>43057863
>Should I go for unlocking characters first or just upgrades and then go for gachas?
Mix it up so you have fun, it is a game. There are some characters that are easier than others and some that are particularly good at grinding out coins if you want to upgrade stuff quickly rather than just do it as you're playing the game.

How do you get the bouncying ball? Is it just with Gura since the Green one is dead as a doornail and I can't think of anyone else with the whole boing boing joke besides her and ina.

>>43058426
You can use any flat character. Gura, Ina, Suisei, and Shion all work. If you do it with Shion you can unlock 2 items in one game.

>>43057863
Do whatever you think is gonna be more fun.
If you want to unlock everything ASAP, roll for IRyS and unlock stamps, then unlock the whole shop.

It has been a good run boys

>>43057863
If you're going to try everyone out, I would clear stage 1 with each Myth member, buying shop upgrades as you go, then start buying 1 new character after each run and spend the rest on upgrades. Greed stickers will generate coins pretty quickly so you'll probably complete the shop upgrades long before playing each character.

>>43058862
Sweet. Thanks.
Funny enough I thought it was a reverse achievement, so I did it with Sana. Kek

>>43058862
Matsuri is flat too.

>>43059214
>>43057863
There are some shop upgrades that are probably good to buy first. The Special attack and the new Stamp system for example. Some later characters don’t even work properly without the special attack option unlocked.

Fauna is dumb

>>43059165
what do u mean

>>43060011
Huh how do you enable that custom mouse pointer? I kept losing track of mine and it's getting annoying.

>>43060162(me)
Nvm seems like I just didn't download the newest update yet.

Hi anons i still havent figured out what collabs to aim for in a given run or what to use to kill bosses fast vs cleaning screen from mobs pls help

Max reach, haste stacked Gura is some dumb levels of fun.

i'm surprised no one made mods for this yet

>>43060910
Dragonfire is the only one that's really made for boss melting. I like Elite Cooking and BL Fujoshi for clearing trash because I'm stuck in my ways, but pretty much collab is good enough at that.

I believe in oga to finish S2H

>>43061766
He lost with super credit card, there's no hope

>>43062211
Is he playing now?

>>43060910
Always Bone Bros.

>>43062261
Only just started

What's the current record for outrunning Yagoos in this version anyways? Being able to stun them with the stickers seems really powerful for example.

That was fucking stressfull, never appreciated the plushie until this run. Stage 2 hard will be a pain like this

>>43060871
It has some other changes to a few characters too.

What buffs should Korone get to be on the same level as everyone else?

>>43062796
>plushee and pikipiki with no healing other than food drops and mama
Are you okay anon?

>Halu and Glasses on Roboco in the first 5 minutes
Man that was a fun run. Almost died near the end to the shooting witch things in stage 3 because I went all in on offense but the lifesteal stamp would have made it safe without changing a lot.

>>43063017
Mama is pretty good healing with high health (which you can see he has)

>>43060910
Broken dreams is very nice for general enemy killing and control.
Micomet is very strong too and goes well with broken dreams since the slow effect will make them spend more time in the lava.
For targeted offense dragonfire is very useful, though bonebros can work if you have high haste.
If you are flat, flattening board is strong but I wouldn’t get it as a 1st collab as the components aren’t great early on.

>>43063326
Even if you're not flat, flattening board is amazing. It's just really good in general.

>>43057652
Anyone else feel satisfied after just beating every new level and trying out each character once?
I dunno why I have no desire to grind achievements or the fandom thing.

>>43061092
H-mods where loss = rape by fans when

>>43063419
But if you're not flat you have an excuse to use Bone Bros

>>43063438
I am grinding the game because it's fun for me but play the game how you want.

>>43063326
Flattening Board is still probably one of the better collabs, even on busty characters.
I might prefer Bone Bros over it in general but I would never feel bad taking Flattening Board.

>>43063528
I don't like Bone Bros, personally.

>>43063017
>>43063098
I also had the healing stamp which felt pretty bad damage wise, but the % healing makes it much better than nurses horn for me. Might drop pikipiki for more damage in stage 2 hard.

>>43063659
I don't think I'd drop pikipiki for Mio since her special is so much of her damage but play it how you want, I'd say!

>>43063787
More damage will make her special stronger, as well as Omen which needs kills to quickly charge it. Although if going 1 weapon and face mask + Membership you should be getting plenty of damage anyway.
Although the extra hp from the new pikipiki can help with Mama. I think that Milk might be a good option, because it will make the Omens bigger as well as the cards so it can hit more enemies at once.

How's Mel, bros? She was always one of my favorites and I'd like to use her if she isn't miserably OP or UP.

>>43064212
If you like her, use her.

>>43064212
She doesn't have great damage but when built properly she is unkillable. I did a single weapon run with her and just facetanked the stage 2 hard boss.
I made no effort to dodge anything and made it through.

>>43064124
Definitely keep piki, lets you keep 90% up time on special

Anyone know how to get fast timed stage runs? I'm not sure how people are getting sub 6m runs. I don't think I have a problem with the mob killing, more like they're not spawning fast enough.

For reference: I'm using Mumei. Maxing out feathers, dumping all anvils on feathers after max'd. Collecting as much damage items as possible, and maybe picking up weapons if theres no better option.
Obviously I'm doing something wrong but would be great if an anon can lead me to the right path

>>43063571
It’s okay but it deals 400% damage and then 100% from the larger explosion in one go. Micomet is 500% from impact and then 210% from the burning, which they will take pretty quickly even offscreen if you are moving and covers a wider area than the board+explosion. The higher multipliers means it works better with anvil enhancements too because that multiplier is being applied to the new damage. You do get two projectiles with the board (good for aqua and if you get a +1 projectile special enchant) but I just find Micomet better for control and damage. It interacts better with haste too and has better component weapons.
Flattening board is good, especially if flat, but I wouldn’t put it in my list of “best collabs” to aim for on any given run.

>>43064340
Huh, better than the dress?

>>43064340
There are lots more changes there than just Piki. With that much defense, tanking hits for piki seems like a much more viable option.

Man I forgot how fast RBC can melt bosses since I haven't touched her since the update.

Is Oga trying to clear Stage hard 2 and not ending the stream until he does? Just saw that he's been streaming the game for 7h now...

>>43064470
>I'm not sure how people are getting sub 6m runs.
>For reference I’m using Mumei
Didn’t Mumei herself get a 5:30 time with Mumei?
Anyway, you restart for face mask and then Tears, aiming for Broken dreams. You then run north to the edge of the stage so you can kill enemies as soon as they are spawning before they even reach you, which teleports their to you.

>>43064212
She’s fun, first character I Gachikoi ranked.

I now that Membeship is really strong, but it just feels really bad to lose coins bros... how do I justify taking it

>>43064625
I think it provides less charge, but you're also getting health and only need to level it to 3.

>>43063583
It benefits greatly from having some haste, if you aren’t playing a haste character is isn’t that good due to the large dead time between volleys. With haste it can be a substitute for the antibody dragonfire, and with wider coverage.
Of course if you want to max on hit effects like Suisei then dragonfire is probably better, especially since she is flat and I’m not certain BoneBros gets the flat bonus.

>>43064953
Greed Stamp, which is a fairly common drop, guarantees you 40k-120k per run, which dwarfs the amount you lose by picking up membership on difficult maps. Stage completion is the barrier to gachikois, not coins.

>>43064953
Coins are easy to get now. Membership is incredibly powerful, as it gives a huge attack and defense bonus in only 3 levels and the “downside” doesn’t impact your ability to beat the stage. Only time it is an issue is early on or if you have a blessing of anvils that you want to use for enhancing.
Membership almost feels like cheating, especially once you are maxed out. If you aren’t then Kusogaki Shackles actually blocks the coin drain which also lets you more easily use other “drawback” items.

Got halu5 before 5 minutes then hard focused on collabs. Around 8 mins or so I got greed stamp too so that was nice. Sweated a bit but this was my best run so far.
How am I supposed to complete Couch potato? Stage 1 with Sana?

>>43064579
I agree with everything you said.
The main issue I have with MiKomet is it precludes Elite Cooking. The opportunity cost of Flattening Board is really just Bone Bros.

>>43064953
It's like 4000 coins at most. Just grab it.

>>43065463
Elite Cooking blocks Micomet AND Broken Dreams, that is a harsh price. I only go for Elite Cooking on characters that care about rapid hits like Baelz. Even on Suisei I usually prefer Micomet as it is the better, easier axe option to BL fujoshi.

>>43064833
Mumei herself also rushed broken dreams for that (you can see her feather is lvl 1 in the screenshot) and got a super gorilla paw, which certainly helps.

>>43065394
Stage 1 with Ame or Fauna is pretty typical. I went with Amelia and it was easy, bubba got xp and the special melted bosses.

>>43065784
I get the feeling that Broken Dreams might be getting nerfed…

>>43065784(me)
nevermind, mumei actually leveled the feathers, I need new glasses

>>43066087
Its not super powerful outside of time mode, I think changing how time mode works would be better

>>43066207
I think it is still one of the better collabs and CEO’s tears is a good weapon to level early anyway. Each raindrop hits at 300% power and slows, while also giving a defensive shield. The great balance makes it a great 1st collab for stages, in my opinion.

It is better to get your items picked out early so then more stat ups will appear, but I like trying to hold out for the 1/20 super drop.

>>43066347
It's by all means one of the better collabs, I just don't think it is "broken" outside of time mode. Even if it was nerfed for time mode, some other collab would end up being the best and sweaty people would rush that instead.

>>43067113
True.
Which do you think is the overall best collab?

>>43067214
That depends on who you're playing, but I think flattening board is one of the best, even if you're not playing a flat holo. For utility its either snow sake or rap dog, I usually build both of those for halu5 endless.

>>43067756
I just don’t get your flattening board bias anon. It is good but I don’t think it is really that good for most characters.

>>43068168
Great damage and coverage. What's not to get (not him btw)

For me I think the best 1st collab is usually broken dreams since it is all around good, and the components are alright. MiComet is probably my favorite, and snow flower sake is extremely powerful, and all three combo together all. Rap Dog’s defense malus is a huge boost to other attacks. Unfortunately, this leaves you without room for stuff like Dragon fire if you grab them all, but oh well.

Elite Cooking is always my go to and that's why I've barely used Broken Dreams. Is it really good enough to give up Cooking?

>>43068768
I just think there are weapons that have better damage, scaling and coverage, especially with the effort of leveling the cutting board (and to extent the bomb) as one of your first weapons.

>>43068168
To be honest I pretty much only play solo weapon runs now anyway, so my opinion is probably not the most qualified. I would usually get micomet first, flattening board second and then you're more or less immortal even on halu5 endless, so unless you're doing something specific like trying to outlive yagoo for awhile, I don't think collabs matter that much.

>>43069041
Just use whatever you want, bro, it's not a great difference (unless you use Aqua, in that case Broken Dreams, Bone Bros and the other multi bullets collabs are way stronger than Elite Cooking)

>>43069041
Elite cooking got a stealth nerf in 0.4 that dropped the damage a bit.

>>43064831
He ended short after the 8th hour. Like many Holos he played superdefensive and enemies keep pilling up and Nodoka lasted so much. If he would chosed Membership over Breastplate he probably would have less trouble.

>>43069041
I feel like the damage on broken dreams is lower but evenly spread whereas the damage on cooking is higher, but more concentrated. If you're getting swarmed by mobs you could argue for broken dreams because of the added slow, and the bubble also shreds bosses.

>>43069780
How does aqua or the +1 projectile bonus even stack with bonebros? It has two projectiles at a time, one back and front, but fires them in volleys. Does it make the volley longer? Do you shoot an extra on the back and front each time? Just one side?
She also does well with flattening board because it goes from 2 to 3 projectiles, big jump for an already strong weapon and if you choose it over bonebros you still have dragonfire.

>>43070245
I did that a few times, never again.

Are Yagoos immune to any weapon effects like Freeze or Stun?

>>43070652
I know stun works at least.

>>43067214
Probably MiComet. It has good enough crowd control and hits bosses pretty hard, so you get a flexible weapon that also feels okay to build.

Bone Bros. is pretty high on my list but only because EN's Curse is so strong. The 7 levels of Cutting Board feel like a tax instead of a weapon.
I like Flattening Board. Like I said, I never feel bad taking it, but it's usually a second or third collab weapon if I do end up taking it.
>>43067756 not me.

I haven't played with the new collabs enough but I suspect people, including me, are sleeping on MiKorone.

>>43070652
Both stun and freeze works, but it felt like there was diminishing returns and I couldn't kill them fast enough with this tanky build. Stamps were stun, heal and usaken.

I miss her even now...

>>43070336
Isn't the damage on the bubble itself pretty low?

How the hell do people get sub 5 on the timed stage? My best is 5:41 and it's literal RNG hell

>>43071159
Feel strong enough to pop the 10 min boss in seconds, but I wouldn't rely on it for later on.

>>43071546
Sub 5 requires rng luck
But 5:00 to 5:30 is pretty viable
Aqua, restart until you get tears as the first choice, get broken dreams, get face mask, have fun.

>>43071019
>Body Pillow
Did that item get some kind of buff that I'm not aware of? I see a lot of people using it in tank builds, but I always think of it as plan B in a dodge build. I always use either horns or bandage when I'm tanking.

>Blacksmith Gear
Is that better or worse than glasses for endless? I feel like there aren't enough slots to run both.

>>43072332
I actually got a slightly better time earlier by using both blacksmith+glasses and a few different collabs. The idea behind blacksmith was to reroll early enchants before collabing if they're bad and the increased damage boost when upgrading later on. Body pillow is just for the reduced damage taken on yagoo.

>>43070961
I tried Mikorone several times but it didn’t seem to work well. From what I see lava it creates is only under enemies hit, so if they die too quickly it won’t make much, meaning it actually gets worse the stronger it and other weapons get.
It also seems to mostly show up on one side of the screen for done reason, but that might just be me imagining things.maybe it is better with aqua or + projectile.
I agree about BoneBros. It is okay but has the benefit of a super great component in EN Curse making the leveling way less painful. I just wish I knew if it got flat bonuses.

>>43072751
Wouldn't Horns or Bandage heal more though?

>>43072332
>Did that item get some kind of buff that I'm not aware of?
It got a buff in 0.4 where in addition to the shield hp, it has 5% damage reduction per level, maxing at 25%. It is 5 levels though and damage reduction has diminishing returns so I think headphones will help more unless you are doing Pikipiki or have done kinda build where you don’t want to take damage to hp like hard mode.

>>43072332
I think that with luck Blacksmith can do better for you than glasses. Only 3 levels, gives double anvils at even 1st level, with a very hefty damage bonus increase for the next 2 that is impacted by your weapon and character attack % bonuses. Using the double anvils and grabbing up items quickly can help you get more power to finish the build, letting you get stat ups faster too. It also leaves the possibility of getting a super glasses.

>>43073143
Probably, I just wanted to stack as much damage reduction as possible to see what happens. Haato also has build in %healing and the healing stamp is 15% healing every second.

https://youtu.be/5rrH1MODymU
JESAS

Does the slow on Broken Dreams and the slow on the polka stamp stack?

I'm curious of what the ID's kits will be like.

>>43074453
Kaela interacting with anvils, perhaps making them more common, seemed obvious but then she got an item that does that already.

>>43073820
Clutch spider cooking into picking up a box.

>>43073175
>headphones will help more unless you are doing Pikipiki
Wait! The dodge hits don't count for pikipikipiman reduction?

>>43074453
Pig items banned on them

>>43074794
>After receiving damage, increase the special meter by #%
Nope, you need to actually take damage.
Dodges DO work with Chestplate though in my experience, which means that despite the speed penalty it is probably amazing for Fubuki.

>>43074453
>Risu
Collecting nuts, and probably some kind of puppet or mode switch with Ayunda

>Ollie
Some kind of revive mechanic as one of her skills, limited to either 1 or 3. She might summon recently defeated enemies as her special unless Kay Yu is planning to include Rushia.

>Kobo
Her rain cloud will be a puppet. Probably a built in dodge since she's so tiny.

Don't know any of the others well enough to make predictions. I forgot Anya even existed until I made this post.

>>43071019
Snow Flower Sake works best with Dragon Fire and/or Bone Bros, IMO

>>43075547
That won't allow me to turn my back to the Yagoos and push them all away with the cutting board, but I see your point.

>>43074794
The game uses three different terms for effects
>Attacks
This will always trigger when an enemy attacks you
>Hits
This will not trigger if an attack is negated by something like headphones or chibi, but will trigger so long as the hit connects, even if damage is blocked by something like daki
>Damages
This will not trigger if an attack is negated or if damage is blocked, it has to deal actual damage to your hp.
So for piki, you have to take actual damage for it to count

>>43057652
Does the stack mechanic on Ina's revised Takodachi skill have an upper limit? I keep trying to save up a big one for emergencies and it keeps fuckin' disappearing on its own when I'm nowhere near.

>>43074453
>>43075434
Anya'll have a hedgehog's dilemma gimmick for sure, whereby enemies get hurt by touching her.

>>43071057
Gen 3 and 4 are going to be interesting.

cover lost a big opportunity in not making this game into a mobile gacha

>>43076620
Not their game. I'm also surprised they haven't cranked one out though, it's guaranteed money if you have an even modestly well known IP.

>Game refuses to give me a weapon to collab with the other two I already have
>Halu appears after minute 18
Haha, what a shit run
It's not even hard, just boring

>>43074639
Sana has skills that boosts her AoE and pick up range and we still got the Limiter in a later update.

>>43076531
5 too IMO. In order of most to least likely to make it in I think it's Coco (shoe in), Rushia, Aloe. The question is whether he excluded Chris because she's not famous or because it was a bad terms termination.

>>43077204
Even with eliminates and rerolls?
I hate it when that happens.

>>43077204
Shop updated with a new option that allows the player to eliminate any unwanted items during a run.

Really does help when your getting bad RNG and repeatedly offered items you don't want/use clogging up the screen

>>43077415
>>43077602
I used all ten of my rerolls,but I still don't get used to eliminating stuff outside of maybe a weapon i know I don't want
Still eliminated like 4 things

>no animation for saplings getting up and walking towards fauna

I expect this gross oversight to be corrected in the next update.

>>43077715
Use them freely and early, the earlier you eliminate the more effective it is.
It is also good to eliminate things you don't want that are higher in weight. Full Meal is weight 1 and Sake is weight 4, so you're freeing up 4 slots on the table when you eliminate Sake.

Strangely fun and satisfying abusing god. It's like using Fubuki but without needing to worry about cooldowns and you just play a prolonged game of chicken.

>>43078243
I know, but when I think of eliminating something my autism starts kicking in and telling me "What if you need it later?
Funnily enough, Sake is one of the few Items I tend to eliminate almost every time

>>43079146
You did this with her at Gachikoi rank, right?

>>43077246
90% the former. Chris lasted all of 3 weeks before getting wiped from history. In the unproven start-up pre-Gamers/G3/EN era of Hololive; Sora debuted less than a year prior as a fuckin' 2view. I don't even know if vtubing as an industry had settled into the streamer format by that point (AFAIK it was Mito who popularized that), so can't say for certain that she even churned out a lot of content in those 3 weeks. Everyone just knows her as a piece of trivia, not as an actual individual talent.
TBPH Aloe was out even quicker than Chris, but debuted in an established Hololive that'd cultivated an international fanbase over an extra 2 years. A lot more people saw her debut & her charms & the immediate fallout, and the circumstances of it had a more profound lasting effect on the rest of her Gen. Hence why she has a shot, IMO.
Chris is only plausible if Kay's a Sakurai-esque autist who'll lose sleep over excluding names on principle. She'll get in if there's a shady unadvertised guerrilla update at the very end with her, the samurai Holostar, and HoloCN. But as a previous thread pointed out, people'd prefer non-Holo guest characters by that point.

>>43080196
Just oshi

>>43074453
Reine will be all about having buffs and abilities centered around Holocoins

>>43080825
Oof. I really don't like Matsuri's main weapon, spin to win is unpleasant.

>>43081038
It was also a pain in the ass dealing with certain parts of the stage, mainly whenever the healers show up. I doubt it'll work as well as it did if at all with halu5.

>>43077009
I admire Kay Yu for sticking to his guns but man. If they worked out a deal this game would make a ton of money. Add skins with full art, etc and it would better than most actual gachas gameplay wise

>>43081138
Oh, I hadn't noticed it wasn't Halu 5.
Still though, pretty impressive to me. Do you use mouse or just keyboard?

>>43081313
Wasn't even sure it would work in the first place so I decided against halu. Might give halu5 a go later but I'm not sure what item I'd swap out for it. Also using a gamepad so spinning isn't as bad but still annoying.

I really hate the +10% Crit damage enchantment. I'm sure it is handy on crit builds but otherwise the other effects all seem to generally be much more interesting or exciting.

>>43082128
How does it scale vs a basic +10% Damage instead?

>>43082325
The basic is +15% damage. I'd at least hope the crit damage adds more considering it far more situational.

>>43082325
>>43082566
The +15% damage adds a flat +15% to the Attack value of your attack. The +10% crit damage adds 10% to your crit multiplier. This makes the crit value better if you are reliably criting.
Just as an example, and attack that has 400% attack and basic crit (1.5x)
>+15% damage
415*1.5 = 622.5 damage on a crit
>+10% crit damage
400*1.6 = 640 damage on a crit
This is over simplified of course, as other factors are taken into effect, but in general multipliers are always better than flat damage increases

>>43083526
I figured as such. I'd still generally prefer +knockback, +1 extra projectile, things like that. On a crit build it is excellent but otherwise it is a letdown.

>was struggling at stage 2 hard h5 as kroni
>mfw some fucking how, i got 10k damage achievement while i am getting overrun by mobs
I'll take it, tho i have no fucking idea how i got it

>>43070502
>How does aqua or the +1 projectile bonus even stack with bonebros?
Apparently the reason Broken Dreams is so Broken also applies to BoneBros. With Broken Dreams, the "attack" is the bubble spawning, and every time that happens it makes rain drops fall. The speed of the raindrops is unaffected by haste but haste does impact the bubble spawn speed.
+1 Projectile makes two bubbles spawn instead of 1, each of which calls down the full assortment of drops. So the attack entirely doubles in power instead of just a small boost. Bonebros apparently acts the same way, doubling it for each +1 projectile.

I just got the over nine thousand achievement and I don't know how. I was doing an Ame stage 1 no movement run and I got it at the part with all the big clocks and saplings.

Holy shit, it actually works with halu5. God spam is an actual boss killer but does fck all for anything else.

Stage 2 hard was unexpectedly easier than stage 1. The spawn points are tailor-made for Mios special.

>>43086960
I had something similar happen with Sora. I wonder if there's a bug with the damage pets do or something.

Mel with PikiPiman, Full Meal & healing items honestly feels like cheating.

Who'd you guys gachi'd so far?
I have Ayame, Sora, and IRyS done.

>>43091472
Just Kiara and Subaru so far. But I haven't been playing the other characters much.

>>43091472
Gura, Mel and Suisei so far, but I'm one stage left of adding Ayame into the list

minor update just dropped, probably more bug fixes
I am archiving past versions also don't download executables from anon https://mega.nz/folder/FRo20K4Q#WkP0LleWhyM10Tft3yrBZA let me know if I'm missing a version

>>43091472
Rbc, Suityan, Mio, Aqua
got most JP done with stage 2 hard though

>>43091472
My goal is to gachi all the Holotori.

>>43091472
Haato, Shion and Mio

i wish we could just set halu as an option going into a stage or something, playing without it is just plain boring and trying to reroll for it is a pain in the ass sometimes

>>43092619
Marketing exist already

>>43092760
and? a run without halu still feels like not playing the game

Hardcore Stage 2 (hard) with Halu5
easier then I expected. you can tank at least 3-4 bullets so it's quite forgiving

>>43091472
Calli, Kiara, Sora. Probably going to do Suisei next and then go back to finish Myth.

Dunno if it's a combination of items or just Aki herself being broken but I lived a minute and 26 sec past 30, longer than my usual insta die when Yagoo comes. Her 500+ stack stand still explosion kills one screen of them, not that it matters much as they respawn super fast.

>>43091472
Aqua, Sora, Choco.
Working on Ayame and Shion.

>>43086044
Looks like Broken Dreams at least was just patched.

>>43091472
Calli & Subaru. Tho in Subaru's case it was cuz I plain didn't get her kit and kept experimenting with it.

>>43080479
Hell yeah give me the three Ps. Pomu Pippa and Pikamee

>>43093736
I suspect Mel might be downright immortal with the right build.

>>43094834
Wouldn't doubt it, had troubles using her though went too defensive and she did no damage despite spamming bats.

To the anon who thinks Korone is in a tier just below Mumei/IRyS... I feel like orange woman mogs dog in every way for single weapon runs. More damage, more tankiness, more speed to dodge, her attacks hit more of the screen... it's just easily in the favor of the orange woman.

Your thoughts?

>>43096670
orange woman bad

>>43096670
I put orange woman in the same tier as doog as they do very similar things. Kiara has the better special, but I prefer Korone because I don't have to make sure I'm constantly moving to keep stacks up.

>>43057863
thats a buff
if everything moves in slow motion you can weave better

>>43098190
I just don't see how you could put them in the same tier when Kiara does literally everything you could want better. Notably so in the case of survivability.

>>43096670
I may be crazy but orange woman feels fucking broken. The only thing that feels bad about her is the fact that she just randomly dies through her revive occasionally for no reason.

>>43098814
We could both be crazy. I think Orange Woman is one of the best girls in the game.
Dancer is such an insane amount of damage, and it's not even that penalizing anymore if you stop moving.

>>43091472
Korone and Mel so far. Next I'll probably take another shot at Okayu; Nodoka slapped my shit the first time around.

>>43094834
>>43096155
I thought the same thing, but I died a lot completing stages for gachikoi. Choco is the one I'm looking at now for Yagoo time challenges.

just tuned in to Kaela's stream, what is she doing right now?

>>43099184
I don't even think it's just that, stamps are way too fucking good on her. Put Stun on her and you can literally just hold right, run into a giant mob and come out unscathed because of multihits on a giant sword means that the stun is very likely to proc. It's like you can't go wrong no matter what stamps you give her, they're all gonna be stupid strong aside from the obvious meme ones.

>>43098806
Except she doesn't. Kiara is good, I agree, but she is built like a skirmisher; her damage reduction is limited to 3 hits per 10 seconds, and her healing is a slow over-time heal. This makes her great for quick engagements, but she wants to avoid being swarmed. Korone is built like a berserker; her damage reduction is constant and gets buffed when taking a hit, and her healing is a % increase from all healing sources, allowing her access to large, if sporadic heals. This allows her to thrive in large packs of enemies without being overwhelmed. I prefer the latter playstyle, I can see why you may prefer the former, but at the end of the day, both of them have very weel rounded kits that allow them to clear solo-weapon runs without issue using both offensive and defensive style builds, so I put them in the same tier.

>>43099939
Except she does. She has built in revives, movement speed, damage reduction and healing.
Korone cannot compare.

>>43099883
Her breast. I mean Breast I mean nice titties I mean best

>>43100248
Korone gets a buff to defense every century in game so the Korone mark is gonna act like shes a top tier instead of mid. Happens every thread

>>43100248
>Korone cannot compare
Korones damage reduction is more consistent than Kiara's, her healing benefit is larger, she has built in haste that Kiara lacks, and revives don't matter if you aren't bad at the game.
At this point though, I don't know why you are even bothering to argue; it's clear you don't like Korone and/or her character, you obviously aren't going to change your opinion, so why keep bringing it up?

How exactly does weapon enchanting work, now that I think about it? It feels like some weapons benefit more than others but I'm not sure why it's working out that way.

>>43101036
>revives don't matter if you aren't bad at the game
>damage reduction does
You are retarded.

>>43099883
Being carried with the Super Limiter and refusing to leave her defensive build.

>>43057652
>Assortment of information(e.g. unlocks etc.)
>https://rentry.org/vehan
Why do we even keep this in the op if no one updates it? Might as well link to the wikia

>>43101626
>3:31 minutes to defeat Nodoka
JESAS!!!!

>umt fork made for holocure
nice now I can look at the sprites again

>>43101241
Blue weapons have random enchantments on them. An anvil can reroll existing enchantments or add one to a white weapon. Collabs inherit the enchantments on the component weapons and they both get rerolled if you enchant it again. It's not really worth the expense in stage mode, but mandatory if you want to fight Yagoo.

>>43101318
>Make stupid mistake because you're terrible and revive
You got value out of it.

>Get overrun Yagoos and revive
You just die again 20 seconds later.

>>43102829
I knew you were retarded. You do realize that you can use the revives offensively, right?

>Not using anvil at all
>Already saw 8+ anvils in 10 minutes
I feel that the game has no faith in me

>>43091472
just miko, azki and suisei since picrel comes at 2026
as long as the contents aren't crazy hard i don't see the need to gachikoi god tier holos like rbc yet

>>43091472
I gachi'd all of the JP girls. And gura too. (19 in total)

Now I just need to do the 10 remaining EN girls and then I'll be done.

What are some QoL improvements or features to the game would you guys like to see? Personally, I'd like to see:
>Jukebox mode
>Ability to choose Stage Songs
>Multiplayer mode, either co-op or a versus mode with rollback netcode (honestly big fat chance of this one, but I could dream)
>Better organized Achievements page. Going down the list to see what achievements you managed to get and not get is kind of a pain and Character specific ones being all on one page is a bit annoying.
>Post game stats page and Personal Records page
>Replay save mode
>Random Dungeon mode
>Randomized Skill mode

>>43102292
Thanks for the heads up

Holy shit, I can't believe I was able to get the coach potato achievement. Almost died when the Q Deadbep and Q Chummies appeared, but was luckily able to level up and grab the healing item just in time. When the big saplings and Kroniis came it was also a fright and didn't even know if I was able to beat Smol Ame.

You don't need to solo beater and couch potato at the same time you know.

Here's proof btw. The achievement pop up got away right as I took a shot.

I was using Irys who was pretty powerful. I didn't think much of her from the previous updates but she is pretty good with her maxed out default wep. I had her as gachikoi, used only defensive items like daki, nurse and the yagoo doll, which was a real important one, as well as Sana's radius thing which is needed since you won't be able to get any exp items otherwise. Reminds me of that story of that lazy baker's wife/kid who he made a giant donut for but she still died because she was too lazy to move and ate only the front part then starved to death.
Plus it helped immensely if you turn off the other weapon skill from the armory. It also lets you get the passive upgrades early which is needed since you'll be leveling up real slow and it's more important you get the attack/crit boost, hp boost whenever possible and the pick up radius, as well as let you max out your items faster which is more useful than weapons, at least with Irys.

>>43108509
Invincibility frames so I don't get instagibbed in 0.000005s when I mistakenly walk into a 1 pixel wall I forgot about

>>43110637
That was just a bonus. I took the solo weapon upgrade for the heck of it just to test it out.
It was also only first stage cause I'm not sure if I'm hardcore enough to do this at hardmode, although with Irys is might be possible. Really hard, but probably possible if you can somehow get the anvil upgrade to spawn right at you and max+ it a few times.

>>43110692
>Proof
We believed you anon, it isn't that hard of an achievement. But perhaps using Irys one weapon makes it a little trickier than say, Ame.

>>43110692
I don't think there's much of a difference between using starting weapon vs all weapons, with the latter you can pick up the cutting board, wamy water, book, laser and cooking because all of them have knockback. You won't have to rely on your support items as much and there's no need to choose between damage boosters and defense since you essentially get both.

Hey, what's the changelog for today's update?

Man, IRyS really is ez mode huh.
Even with sub-optimal build (No Hope Soda), Nodoka got melted in 5 seconds

>>43111030
Is Ame better? Irys had the innate healing and the push ability which was a big help with the bosses. I guess with Ame you have Bubba grabbing item so it help save a slow for the Sana Radius item. Later on I had to keep doing circle motions to survive when the Saplings and Kroniis came it. Barely survived.
I really can't imagine doing this at like stage 2 Hardmode, although maybe I'll try it with Ame later.

>>43111198
Annoyingly, in this case he bothered to update the changelog but listed no changed. Usually he just forgets the changelog entirely. I assume it's more bug fixes because I hope he'd at least mention balance changes.

>>43111313
In stage 1 at least I think she is, but of course that is when you're not 1 weaponing. All her skills are generic and general purpose for buffing damage or bubba and her special lets you melt bosses on demand. No innate healing but items cover that.

>>43111263
I was surprise to find out she's a good coin farmer once you get the stamp. Helps a lot with grinding, with the only annoyance is waiting for the stamp to spawn which is usually near the end of the game for me.
I wonder does it work for Ame also since she's got pierce and multiple shots as well.

>>43109189
This feels like half of a hololive virgin/chad template

>>43111353
>I hope he'd at least mention balance changes.
He doesn't always. Last update nerfed irys a (little) bit for example.

>>43111524
Her weapon turns into coin tractor beam once you find greed stamp and supacha, it's insane.

>>43111524
Ame doesn't work nearly as well, way fewer shots than IRyS and they do more individual damage.

>>43111524
It works well for ame but IRyS is on another level compared to anyone else

>>43111263
>got melted in 5 seconds
>20:47
uh huh

>>43111667
I wasted my time trying to +10 her weapon for achievement, trying to find all the fucking anvils

I wonder how hard Stage 3 (Hard) will be.

>>43091472
Kronii and IRyS, the G rank requirement is annoying, you can get really screwed by gacha luck

>>43111800
I hope there's still at least a bit of progression from normal stage 3 to 4. The jump from 1 to 2 was bigger than the one from 2 to 3.

bitch lasagna

okayu can werk, she's just stuck with the AVGN curve shit.

>>43111667
He's not wrong. Once you get Irys default to +4 or so it kills all enemies in a single go. Bosses usually get melted in a mater of seconds, like I took down Mikodanye as soo as she spawned and A-chan shortly after, and this is without any stamp buff outside of slow or any attack buff items. Nodoka is only annoying cause she flies around a lot, like A-chan, and she's a little dangerous because her beam does good damage and hard to escape at times, plus her shooting out a lot of dakka for longer. Irys' standard weapon is pretty OP.

>>43111800
Both the mega duck and Spiderchama have big covering areas on their attacks so I will say a pain having both on the same screen, even worse if you are slow as fuck.

>>43111872
>The jump from 1 to 2 was bigger than the one from 2 to 3.
That was on purpose, because Kay Yu noticed the chuubas flailing and failing with stage 2, so he intends for the difficulty differences with normal stages to be small if at all, while the hard stages will continue to ramp up.

>>43111919
Shuba might actually not be that big of a problem given its such a big target and doesn't jump away so you can just focus on it, like how smol Ame and FubuZilla was. I can't imagine who would be the final boss however.

>>43091472
IRyS and Aqua. I wanted to get an edge in the time trial with Aqua... oh well.

How much of a change was the hotfix to IRyS's main weapon? The change to the minimum attack speed. Is it even something you could do normally?

>>43112381
When you are on a one weapon run, you'll pick up a bunch of haste level ups due to not having any weapons to clutter it up and filling up your item slots quickly.

>>43111524
It's actually crazy how much of a difference there is.
I got a perfect farming run on S1 hard with Mumei getting Marine stamp at 2m and the entire build maxed out at 4m and ended up with ~90k coins. Same build with Irys getting the Marine stamp at 13m got me ~110k coins.

>>43112472
Did you remember to turn off your attack upgrades and level +% attack bonus to main weapon in the shop?
Weaker weapon = more hits = more coins

not either of the anons but I will also vouch for flattening board. It has wide area and does great damage. I play usually play flat characters so there might be bias but it just clears everything on screen. I have a hard time believing other collabs do more actual damage besides dragon fire, which I consider sub par. Also, bone bros felt weaker. I'm probably wrong but I'll still cope.

>>43112534
Bone Bros apparently doesn't get flat bonuses so it'll be weaker on a flat character. Part of the benefit of bone bros is that it doesn't suck to unlock, because EN Curse is damn good.

>>43112600
I would rather max EN curse and get flattening board instead, Bone Bros is not that good all things considered

>>43112534
I’m going to agree the bonebro isn’t all that great. Compared to the dragonfire where you do damage straight on the slashes seem to fly around, and if it is just like dragonfire in terms of damage then its worse due to less of the attacks hitting a target. Not sure if the flattening board collab gets the same boost when using a flat character but if so it probably is better.

>>43112675
If I'm not going flat then MiComet is likely better. And if you're Suisei, Micomet is still better. Flattening Board is good, but best saved as a second collab.. or third. Maybe later even, suisei loves Dragonfire for the extremely rapid attacks meaning extremely rapid crits.

Does Ayame's spirit flames scale with the weapon damage?

>>43113113
I don't believe so, only with attack and damage multipliers.

>>43113159
Sounds extremely weak then. I was hoping to do a single-weapon run with her.

>>43113250
It's still very possible.

>>43111893
i wasn't saying it's not possible, just pointing out that it was 47 seconds after the boss had spawned

>>43102921
There is absolutely nothing unique about the fact that her special deals screenwide damage.

>>43113704
He probably meant it figuratively or something. But if you focus on Nodoka with Irys or Ame even, yeah you can easily kill her pretty fast. Ame might be better with her super and being a good boss killer but Irys is plenty OP too.

The changes to suisei for 0.5 are nice, really helps although some of that is no doubt also from the fandom system getting you a head start on skills.

>>43111942
I would be disappointed if the normal stages don't get any harder from here, balancing the game for Miko is silly when almost no one else is that bad at the game.

am i in the wrong if i mute the game and pop in different music? i love suspect and candy-go-round but I can only take it for so long

>>43114693
>literally pandering to a big baby
Kek this tickles me a bit.
But I also can’t imagine how much harder it can get without reaching bullshit levels. Obviously once you max grind everything and a new stage come out it won’t be that hard. The new stage was more annoying when there was a constant amount of the mics flying through the screen and that one point where there was everything was red and made it impossible to see what was going on.
Hopefully it won’t go full 2hu, since that would actually be easier since any danmaku pattern not on the levels of Lunatic is cakewalk by anyone with a semblance of experience with the games.

>>43114110
To be fair, it's kind of dumb how spammable it is. You can purposefully throw yourself into a bad situation to use it, pop the revive and now your special is near charged again already.

>>43115088
>Hopefully it won’t go full 2hu, since that would actually be easier since any danmaku pattern not on the levels of Lunatic is cakewalk by anyone with a semblance of experience with the games.
just play medium or hard. lunatic is for insane bastards who lost their vision

Your go to collabs?
I always go for frozen sea, broken dream, rap dog, and light beam or flattening board if the character is flat. The new collabs either seem weak or would break up the build order too much. Snow flower sake breaks up 2 of my gotos

>>43115088
>2hu
I actually never played those games but I can dodge well because I played Binding of Isaac

>mouse aim crosshair is now the correct color
I know the devs are reading these threads, so I'm gonna ask you to make it just sliiiightly bigger.

>>43115270
The elderich one is not bad, since its just Gura’s whirlpool skill with a wider effect but it would be nice for some of them to get a bit of a buff like bonebros. The korone Bomb skill is useless for me since it requires you to kill said enemy for it to work and the damage is much too little for the effort. Maybe someone will find a better way to use it but that one I avoid completely. But yeah, they’re okay. In the hard stages most collab fall off fast and anvils spawn rare even with max credit card at least it was for me at stage 2 hard.

>>43115088
>Obviously once you max grind everything and a new stage come out it won’t be that hard.
But will new power scaling still be added? More ranks in the shop?
Because if you need to beat every stage for Gachikoi rank, you'll drop down to oishi every time new stages come out and need to beat them at that rank first.

>>43115484
One you play through 2hu, especially on the harder modes, and get used to it all other pattern shooter games become easy as hell, unless it was made specifically as a pattern shooter. The ones without actual grazes still fucks me since its a bad habit once you get used to grazing.

>>43115270
I'm very stuck in my ways so still Elite Cooking and BL Fujoshi. Dragonfire has also worked its way in because I need it for Nodoka and Baerat. I'm definitely going to drop BL if I start doing endless instead of stage and maybe Dreams instead of Cooking.

>>43115484
You would definitely have a leg up going in, but memorization is a big part of Touhou and that requires reps.

>>43115629
Maybe just add a new rank and get rid of the clear all stage requirement, making it win X instead like previously. Or make win all stage optional, like the earlier ranks where you just need 2/3 instead.

>>43114989
same, I can hear it plenty in streams anyway

>>43115682
i haven't played 2hu in years and my dodging skills were rusty as fuck when I faced nodoka for the first time

>>43115629
There wasn't much more scaling added except the new features. Remember last update they doubled most of the shop upgrades which was a massive power spike. Most of these holo girls have pitifully low investment in their shops since they play so many games they don't have the time to fill it up. I know I'd get wrecked on the hard stages if I reset my shop. The best thing he added for that was the "recommended upgrades". If nothing else it reminds people that the upgrades exist

Damn, I really wanted to hit 40.

Even with eliminations it feels really annoying to try to get specific items. If you so much as pick 2 items you want the chance of getting the specific third you need drops to almost nothing with how aggressively the game weights drops in favour of things you have.

>>43115907
This was another reason why stage 2 was such a jump compared to stage 1, he had intended for people to be using the shop to get stronger but many of the holos didn't and instead spent their money on Gacha and only played a little on stream.

>>43116286
Then when you finally do see one of the items you're missing there's another you're missing right below it.

>>43116286
Also a shame you can’t use elimination more than once and that you can’t skip grabbing something if you haven’t gotten anything for a long time because you were holding out for a specific. I had a run where I was hoping for credit card but in the end was forced to choose something else since all my weapons and items were maxed and I ran put of rerolls and didn’t have more than one elimination. Guess its just part of the RNG. I wish there is at least an always option, like the 20% heal or 200 coin at least.

>>43114989
No but I actually keep the music at least for stage 2 hard because I love the original Stardust Song and this remix is just as good if not better.

>>43114989
I've played video games so much that eventually muting the music and either playing nothing or playing 90s drum n bass is just natural progression for me.

>>43116286
I can't play as Kiara since I do not want the feather in my item pool

It's fun to play as Aki, but her super takes a while a charge

>>43117025
It’s a logical progression… next up inside the session is the L T J Bukem…

>>43117602
That's maybe because belly dance works like a second super if charged enough.

>>43118375
That's true, but while belly dancing is technically strong, the game seems much easier when you stay in one place and avoids moving too much

I should try to see how high I can get this on endless.

>>43118621
That's a very high spec pistol.

>>43118617
Might be because you’re moving right into the enemies as oppose to them coming to you and they’re usually spawned a little distance away. I was pleasantly surprise how it was when I did the coach potato run. Still they can mod you pretty easily and if you don’t have enough to tank and kill them its not a good idea during the middle of the stage. Bosses like A-chan and Nodoka is also almost impossible since they’ll kill you with their barrage of bullets.
>>43118621
Upgrade percentage caps at 25% but whats the highest the weapons go? I only got to 14.

Which is the weakest character?
Fubuki seems rather mediocre.

>>43119269
my oshi

KINGW

What's the best build for Shion?

>>43117602
Aki is shit and nothing will change my mind until she gets buffed.

>>43119177
>>43119573
I think the main problem with Aki is that her main weapon doesn't synergize with her skills. Her twintails attack randomly all over the map, which would be quite strong if you could just stay in one spot. Mukirose is a bit weak too, since there aren't many ways to inflict debuffs outside of stamps. maybe her main weapon could be buffed to inflict debuffs on hits?
As it is, she loses in damage at G 20 to characters with no duplicates

>>43119269
At this point there are definitely characters who shine more in regular play and others with single weapon so that distinction probably has to be made. I also find Fubuki to be on the mediocre side normally but single weapon allows you to consistently use friendzone/kon kon offensively to delete waves and then you get a true appreciation for her dive into crowds playstyle.

>>43077246
I think Aloe will probably be a pet/mascot skill for Nene. “Gen 5 is 5!” Or something.

Hell, maybe as one for all Gen 5 if we’re aiming high on dreams.

>>43119880
Rap Dog and the Wamy/BL book combo works for MukiRose. Just need a strong dmg collab after that like MiComet

>>43119880
The strafe button serves no purpose anymore if you use a gamepad unless you want to be lazy while backpedaling. I imagine it's more or less the same with kbm. It's probably too much to ask for, especially now, but I think it'd be a good idea to change "strafing" into "focus" that would alter the properties of primary weapons like making Aki's twintails attack only of the side that you focus on.

>>43120264
I haven't unlocked rap dog yet, I'll try a run when I get it
>>43120428
That sounds like an interesting idea, it'd probably make OP characters even stronger though

>>43119880
>maybe her main weapon could be buffed to inflict debuffs on hits?
But it does? Like 30% chance for def down.

Speedmaxxed Kronii is fun as fuck with the greed stamp. Everything is a coin pinata.

>>43120847
If it was actually done I imagine for the more op characters their focus would have to be more for utility or need to be charged up a brief duration before firing. You could even move Mumei's current attack to requiring a charge up for some actual balancing, but everyone would probably be up in arms and cry bloody murder about a change like that.

ok, choco sensei is just stupid.. If you build her decently well you can just stand in the bullets from nodoka and you wont drop at all. Has anyone tried her in endless yet? I wonder how she scales vs the yaggo's.

>>43121218
Kronii is strong in general, haste is extremely powerful and her personal skills are all very good.
She's not retarded like Mumei but still very strong.

>>43121052
You're right, I somehow never fully read the description for the final upgrade. In that case, it's Aromatherapy that's her weak skill

>>43121531
Aroma and Mukirose work together, it's belly dancing that's more of a bad second special than an actual skill.

>>43121531
Almost all the radius skills are weak since their effectiveness drops off hard once you start getting collabs. Aqua's is the notable exception since it has the outside of the radius component.
>>43121803
Belly dancing kinda has the same problem. Once I start getting collabs together I end up just ignoring it.

Shion's portal needs a buff or a rework

>>43077246
im holding off on gachikoing anybody until watame gets released, am i autistic?

The highest I can get with luck with the anvils is +23. Seems like it can go even higher with luck.

>>43122001
If >>43120428 >>43121258 were implemented portals could be moved off of being a skill and give you control over where and when they're placed. They would just need a cooldown between going through portals to prevent spam and avoiding every enemy. Since that's unlikely it needs a rework.

This update added 2 ways of having extra projectiles and melee weapons still get nothing. Some of the girls feel underwhelming as a melee weapon

>>43123477
What would you give melee weapons? Haste, multi attack?

>>43123477
Feels like out of the melee characters, only Kiara won big from the stamp system. Subaru also gets a raw deal from stamps.

>>43123510
Multi Attack feels like the easiest option, like Gura or Ayames weapon upgrade, or crit dmg for being in close range. Im only now realizing theres no easy option for a haste item that DOESNT have a downside so theres that too.

>>43122001
I think shion portal has an exploit that isn't discovered yet. What weapons has effect that activates on reset?

>>43123477
There isn't much you can do outside of turning melee into Terraria's idea of melee.
>>43123576
Korone is also another big winner from the stamp system. Ignoring the back and forth from the other posters earlier, I felt she was pretty weak in 0.4 but now you can easily turn her into a murder machine, especially on single weapon runs.

>>43123641
To my knowledge, the longest cooldown on a weapon atm is eldritch horror, if that's what you meant.

>>43123510
The only thing I can think of is like an after-effect that increases in size proportionally to the size of the attack. For example, a trail of fire that burns enemies, or ice that slows enemies down. So some big ass melee weapon would be able to leave wide debuffs.

>>43114989
I've started having Holocure muted as I listen to streams because we nice as the team's are listening to them for so long will most likely make me sick of them.

>>43114989
I have been playing with whatever music I'm in the mood to listen, like, I have no idea what songs play after stage 2, I think I listened to the one that plays on hard 1 once, and still haven't listened to the the ones of the new stages, and when I listen to it from streams it kinda enters from one ear and comes out from the other, so I never remember them

>>43115270
Broken Dreams, Idol Concert, and Flattening Board since I use Ina a lot. Snow Flower Sake might replace Concert as time goes on. Special mention to Dragon breath that I'm personally not much of a fan of but I still pick up specifically for hosing down Nodoka.

>>43123761
She's also one of the best characters for Greed stamp farming, due to how many hits per second she has.

>>43115270
Broken dreams, miComet, Flattening Board, and Snow Flower Sake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8bvXSVD7mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8bvXSVD7mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8bvXSVD7mo

>>43126078
Sudden Shion stream, but i have to sleep...

>>43126078
Sorry, I'm watching the funny duck woman

Just noticed Inas skill changed to the 4th wah, what got replaced?

>>43126078
Rare

>>43126635
Cult, which buffed Ina's damage the more enemies that were within a certain distance of her.

>>43091472
Roboco, Bae, Mumei, Irys currently Hard mode stages away from Aki then I'll move onto Choco

Could Bone Bros be considered as a replacement for Dragonbreath if you are playing as a character with a focus on haste?

>>43126078
>played 5 games
>16k coins
i should start a fresh save to feel this struggle...

I love my garlic wife

>>43127858
Why not use both if you can? They use different items.

Is Subaru's attack a koshien reference?

Shion playing as herself is gonna be a struggle