/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>4277040
Small indie company, please understand.

>>4277040
because they have a giant ego, even more for calling themselves a cutting edge tech company. The only thing they have over anyone else is their shows and that doesnt even matter.

Nijisanji is superior in every way. The sooner you EOP retards realize that the better.

>>4277270
this but unironically

I love Miko

>>4277040
Tbf hololive mainly used thier tech on stages performance

>>4277040
Probably Niji was invested more compared to Hololive in their initial stages. But now, Nijisanji is a slow sinking ship with their hopes being put into better 3D technology to capture the market again. Wouldn't be far-fetched if they were on the verge of bankruptcy, they would sell their tech to Cover.

>>4277423
Nisijanji has more annual revenue than Cover.

ive seen VRChat streamers with better tracking

Niji's arms just snap to preset positions and have some limited hand tracking (something that is very noticeable in Claire's daily morning videos), Holo seems to be going for full motion tracking

Live mo-cap engineers are extremely rare and Cover pays below market

>>4277490
The boom didn't happen until last year when Nijisanji was still dominating the Japanese market. It'll start to change a bit maybe this year or the next.

>>4277270
Yeah I especially love men, so Nijisanji resonates with me greatly.

>>4277040
Dunno, maybe check the replies in the other 900 times this thread was made.

>>4277901
Based fellow MANisanji chad.

I can't wait until all these basic bitches graduate and stop dragging the company down

>>4277040
Why are they both getting mogged by some random gook on twitch?

>>4277040
Cover is literally a small indie company. Ichikara/Anycolor is a subsidiary of Sony.

>>4277040
Honestly, the entire industry needs to invest more into 3D so we can bury Live2D forever.

>>4277040
Ah yes, the revered Niji tech must be giving them a huge advantage.

>compares Miko's viewership and superchats with Ange
Oh.....

>>4278051
Broader overall appeal. She's intertwined herself with the greater twitch audience. Most of those big guys get twice as many viewers as Holos do.

>>4278080
For as much as it gets meme'd Cover literally is a small indie company compared to AnyColor. The fact that Cover manages to completely mog them all the time in viewership and popularity is nothing short of amazing.

>>4278088
Both have their charm

>>4278088
This

Live2D is a cancer. It's why I mainly watch Sora, Miko, Roboco, and AZKi since they always use 3D.

>>4277040
I want to know how you can watch a stream as fucking adorable as the stream Miko did playing around with her hands and immediately think that starting a tribalism thread is the best course of action.

>>4278088
3D used to be the universal standard, the market liked Live2D better.

>>4277040
Why invest in gimics that won't translate into better viewership when you are already killing it with only half the effort needed?

>>4278088
But, the indies, think on the poor indies

>>4278051
I don't get her appeal at all. Her avatar is pure nightmare fuel to me.

>>4278093
Literally nobody is talking about their income or their viewership. We are just talking about their 3D tech.

>>4278080
Repeating it 100x isn't going to make it any more true. Sony Music is an investor in Anycolor, that's literally it.

>>4277423
They had less initially, but they blew up first, and thus had more resources to spend on 3D tech. The question is what Cover is spending their money on if not better tech, considering they seem to have blown up just as much.

>>4277577
That's because they're using Niji3D. Both go for full mocap when in studios, or whenever they want I guess, but Niji is still the only one with 3D using only their phones.

>>4278088
Maybe one day if 3D tech gets better and doesn't require a studio. For now I agree with >>4278159, but 2D is always a mixed bag for me compared to straight up moving like a human. Anycolor's movement seems too stiff sometimes even with 3.0, while Cover's has to manually toggle emotions and bounces all over the place. It's actually a disgrace that both these companies have worse live2D than western indies.

>>4278051
Because both Niji and Holo are using smartphones and off-the-shelf hardware that fits in your typical japanese single-room apartment while CodeMiko uses a fucking movie-grade motion capture rig that cost her like 15k USD just for the suit

>>4278501
>Maybe one day if 3D tech gets better and doesn't require a studio
I think that anon means for regular streams. Using a 3d model instead of live2d, and I agree it's much better. You can test it out yourself with a random mmd model and vseeface off of stream.

>>4278501
>Niji is still the only one with 3D using only their phones
Hololive members also use their iphone for home 3d

>>4278399
Cope more SJWsanji

>>4277423
Niji wouldn't be a slow sinking ship if they just dumped the girls and went all male. Nobody watches Niji girls anyway.

Manjisanji

>>4277040
Probably scared of changing up their formula and losing the 2d aesthetic that draws people in.
But yeah if they had full vr rigs I'd be way more into it. 2d does have a charm to it tho.

>>4277040
Miko hands look so giant. That's so elite. I bet she can do legendary blowdjob with them.

>>4279020
Absolutely based

>>4278721
so where do you think the money came from? rich family or simp money from when she did nudes?

>>4279065
>losing the 2d aesthetic
That wouldn't be a problem if they could translate their 2D designs to 3D properly, but that's rarely the case. 3D Korone looks like a complete different character compared to 2D Korone.

>>4279178
Most likely the former.

>>4279178
She said she had investors when Critikal interviewed her.

>>4278802
The live2d holomems only use their home3d avatars maybe once in a blue moon.

>>4277859
No matter how big nijisanji is in japan, it just one place compared to the rest of the bigger world, sane investor would know better which one has better growth potential, no other vtuber company could catch this much overseas viewers than hololive at this current time

>>4279962
Because outside of gen0 who were 3d tonbegin with, Holo's home 3d sucks ass for the most part

>>4278501
>The question is what Cover is spending their money on if not better tech, considering they seem to have blown up just as much.

They did hiring spree for these past months

>>4279963
Amid Nijisanji's decline the best thing for them to do would be to drop all the females and move full time over to twitch. They can transform all of their content to be more in tune with what big twitch streamers are doing. That is the only way for Niji to save itself.

>>4280006
Yeah. There is literally not a single good reason for them to use it, considering that is less expressive than their regular 2D avatars.

>>4280021
How big is Real something something shit that Anycolor has in Bilibili? If it's profitable there, they can go the Kizuna Ai route and be irrelavant in youtube but booming in another platform.

Kizuna Ai has a million or so in Tiktok for example

>>4277040
You have Ange's model spazzing around and there are clipping problems. Is this the best example you can give for Nijisanji?

>>4278221
They still need to polish their 3D for normal streams. The only 3D use I've seen okayish in a stream is Subaru.

>>4279963
Thing is we don't know what the retention rate of the overseas market will be once the pandemic is fully over. The industry is still young and despite the overseas boom last year, it's still a primarily Japanese-centric industry. The first year post-pandemic will be the telling sign of whether this industry can remain viable overseas with the current model.

>>4279178
It isn't impossible that she's rich cause she works in tech. She's probably making 6 digits annually.

>>4277422
Even then their live performance 3d is still so much more stiff compared to Nijisanji, And both of them are miles behind AI's team 3d.

>4280021
Holo of the West - Youtube side; ruler: google
Niji of the East - Twitch side; ruler: amazon
Whoever wins, the audience loses.
Fuck you

>>4280311
Thing is, entertainment keeps evolving rapidly and the next best thing could possibly come in the form of animated avatars especially once the kpop craze dies

>>4277040
Ange's hands flap around like wet noodles, her model is spazzing all over the place and has terrible clipping issues in most obvious places. Is this what you bait as the best tech?
Cover is slow, but their tech actually looks somewhat decent. Just as always, Cover knows what they are going for, while AnyColor (as long as it's black) just shoves half-assed product and streamers.

>>4279178
not everyone is poor anon...some people have real jobs

>>4280311
The end of the lockdown doesnt mean the fans will stop watching, they will just change to watch the archives

>>4280180
Tiktok is a cancerous platform. It's only possible for AI to be on there because she's the only vtuber in her company. All the money is focused on making her 3D look great to the audience, but thing is, is her merch all that worth despite her tik tok popularity? Is she really gaining back any returns for her company?

>>4280620
> Is she really gaining back any returns for her company?

>partnership with Valentino, a world renown fashion company

yes

>>4277270
they are so superior they had to remove the number 1 from every category lol

Cover literally lives on supacha money and some bits of investors, Nijisanji has big companies sponsoring them enough for them to move their HQ to Roppongi.

>>4280540
I just hope they work on the facial tracking. fucking vshojo has better facial tracking on their 3d avatars.

>>4280793
This will always be funny. Manjiniggers will deny it though and play mental gymnastics to justify it.

The only thing Niji has above Hololive is Inui Toko and her talent. That cannot be argued

>>4281678
>Inui Toko
Cover has a fucking Indog squirrel who mogs Toko at everything Toko is good at.

>>4282211
Treerrat is watching us, we'd better stop posting

>>4280012
After Pekora started wondering what their superchat money is spent on lol

>>4277270
Holo girls will become nobody if they work for Niji

>>4288220
Yeah, no shit, just like the Niji girls. Manjisanji fans only watch males.

>>4277270
Ya really wanna see them spamming retarded shit in the chat eh?

>>4277040
i really don't mind either way
the whole recent boom only happened because vtubers moved away from these cursed-looking 3D scripted skits and instead started to play video games

>>4277040
yeah one is backed up by china
other is not

>>4288497
Zhangjisanji

>>4288220
Because they can't hope to compete with their mediocre talent lol

Even in the live2d department, there are literal who indies with better rigging https://twitter.com/pixelvertice/status/1394641891518345230

>>4288484
And now the industry has become stagnant and oversaturated with variety streamers while the only innovative stuff is being done by those with 3D avatars with developing better VR/AR tech.

>>4279020
You're trying to hard.

>>4277490
>keep using old data
why manjisanji always be like this?

>>4277351
Me too Anon

>>4279178
Wasn't she a whore, I think I've seen her nudes on this site

>>4278948
Cope more brainlet

>>4289138
But Polka still makes those

>>4280793
OH NO NO NO NO OOHH

>>4279020
can this manji guy just get a permaban already?

>>4281678
Isn't there some legit opera singer who "works" for nijisanji on the side? Or is she an indie that just collabs with them. I'd say she's the most talented one there.

>>4277040
Sio...

>>4277040
On the offhand you're actually asking and not just baiting, this is fundamentally a hard question to answer because both companies play things fairly close to their chest.

That being said, it's probably more a case of both companies looking at different long-term endgames. The NHK business spot that featured Cover Corp revealed that they were using VR controllers for home 3D setups, using button presses to form the hands into presets. It's possible they've stuck with that approach and are trying to develop it further (Miko and Sora's stiff/awkward arm positions definitely feel consistent with someone holding a VR controller with a "hand" glued on top).
It would definitely fit with their CEO's posted long-term plans about trying to create virtual venues and spaces for the talents to perform. Trying to keep abreast of specifically streamer-oriented developments in motion tracking (ex. Leap camera or developments in open-source software interpolation of regular camera data) may not be seen as fitting for future ambitions. Nijisanji conversely might have more modest ambitions in that regard which gives them better flexibility in terms of adopting current best practice.

>>4277040
I think they finally realized it isn't feasible to have everyone come to japan to dancing around in 3d capture suit. But for some stubborn japanese reason, cover is recreating 3 year old tech by hand. *achiowo did this two years ago by herself, using hobby tech. If NijiEN is smart they would do 3D@home for their girls as soon as possible.

>>4291772
Wow, a knowledgable person in /vt/, that's rare.

Are people really deluding themselves that either of these companies have good 3D when not in studio?

>>4278330
But if their tech is too far behind it'll bite then back in future anon. Sparing some cash for re-investing is always good move, esp when holo reap huge profit rn. The potential of home 3D is still huge, imagine mukbang stream or janken stream in home 3D for example.

>>4282211
Hello risu

When you're at the top you don't need to waste time and money improving your product. Niji needs to get off its ass and threaten the top spot so hololive is forced to innovate.

>>4277040
Easy, cover got lazy after they earn money. Remember nijisanji's 3d model start so shit even until seeds era because they start as live2d company. And Cover start as a 3D VR company. Cover has all the advantage especially 3D. And then they got lazy.

>>4288497
go away, chink bug

Cover will never improve, just look how much money they're making by doing the bare minimum. They also see that nijisanji can't catch up to them anymore so there's no point in upgrading their tech since their brand name will carry them from now on.

>>4277040
im sure miko and sora are debuggers for it. its still on a test phase.

Fuck 3d rig, they need to put more effort on facials motion

>>4277040
What a stupid complaint. I'm just happy that hololive is finally getting moving hands after dealing with awkwardly stiff home3D for so long. They might be behind Nijisanji in 3D technology but they're making earnest efforts to improve and catch up and I appreciate that.

Miko's handtracking has so much soul and she already mastered it in just one day

>>4278051
uncanny valley shit

>>4277040
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4yLx0gYOj0
Silvervale's facial tracking mogs pretty much everyone, it's fucking uncanny how good it is.
She's part of Vshojo by the way, so you're free to seethe if you want.

>>4303527
it looked awkward as hell to me first but after the collab with subaru, i already got used to it. shes so fucking good at handling it. its catchy as hell.

>>4304543
I really wonder how she does that. Shit looks so precise, you can almost lip-read when she's talking, there's also very fine eyebrow movement and everything. Maybe she uses some fancy-ass facial mocap or something.

>>4291772
2434 mogs hololive in the 3D department too. It isn’t just a matter of having different priorities. It’s a matter of 2434 just having superior tech.

>>4299566
Their efforts are shown in a lot of the projects that they are already showing. A new game show in the hololive channel, a 1st gen concert, 1st original album and concert, 1st full animated pv that will extend to several multimedia projects who they still hiring people for. A new gen for EN. A new Vsinger. New 2d clothes for several gens. This hand update is pretty much the latest. And I must say. The hand tracking is more fluid except for the thumb. The nijihand is very glitchy and always snaps back. Her hand stays where she wants. It just needs improvement to make it better. It gives her more expression than the nijihands.

>>4304962
Anyone can say "Nijisanji's tech is superior" - but that's not an explanation in any meaningful sense, that's just a blindingly obvious statement of fact. *Why* it's better might be any combination of factors: more experience, more capital, longer history of working in the field, better talent among company employees, and possibly also long term objectives and ideals. Few people on /vt/ can even answer questions properly, let alone actual identify causative factors or discuss the actual technical implementation.

>>4305116
If Cover is so generous, why can't they buy and set up mocap tech for Sora and Miko? Those two are the faces of Hololive, and they get absolutely fucking mogged by comparative small-timers like CodeMiko and Silvervale. If indies can do convincing facial tracking, there's no excuse for Sora not to have it. And the less said about Miko the better, I'm still not sure if she even has facial expressions.

>>4277040
>Ange.
Better example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFDrrZHFuPg
She is so expressive.

>>4299622
They should do both. It would only improve their streams.

>>4305485
Why can't they buy this. Why can't they buy that. The only good thing about being indie is the fact they can use whatever they want and just think of the problems after. Just look at what Mel Vshojo and that dude "helping" her. If they were going to do something then that means it has to be implemented for everyone. Not just 2 girls. Not because of reverence or some shit but because it makes business sense to do so. And we know for a fact that the mocap shit isn't the only thing that they will have to update after, it's every proprietary software involved. Do you know that Coco has to actually buy the rights for the shutterstock image of a shitty meme? It's the backoffice shit, coding, design and implementation. It's a process. All you know is to bitch and moan.

>>4277062
>>4277062
But cover was a small indie tech company lol. Nijisanji is literally owned by sony retard.
Hololive literally only got popular in 2020, before they were nobodies

>>4306388
Still Jank as hell.

If you want to talk about good 3D motion capture without resorting to freaking CodeMiko and her 20k dollar movie set you can look at 2 that I have in mind. Project Melody and, of course, the legendary Kizuna Ai. Both of them have pretty fantastic looking 3D models and tracking.

>>4312050
i thought the point was comparing home3D?

>>4280441
This is literally as stupid as the whole dc vs marvel shit going on for 20 years

>>4312105
Melody and Ai-chan use them for regular streams, not just events.

Tribalism is a mistake.

>>4311446
The fucking problem is, HLs Live2D shit works just fine. It is not a problem for literally anyone else, no other Holo uses 3D outside of dancing and singing, where facial expressions don't matter. But Sora and Miko stream with their fucking 3Ds, and it looks like someone's playing with fucking dolls. Compare them to Kiara or Watame, shit's fucking pathetic. If Yagoo wants those two to use their 3D models instead of getting them good 2D models, then be so fucking kind to provide them with the proper hardware and let the girls shine in their full glory. They deserve better.

>>4289138
Yeah its almost like eilene and her company are the only one doing innovative things with vr nowdays, everyone else is just playing stupid boring games over and over again

>>4277423
its gonna be the same as when wcw failed?

>>4312050
>without resorting to freaking CodeMiko and her 20k dollar movie set
Hololive's net income is 1.5 mil. dollars. They could afford 20k dollar move sets for each of the girls and still have some leftover change left.

>>4304543
You realize amelia’s roomate is the one who did her model right....

>>4312379
That one is new, Silver upgraded it pretty recently.

>>4312347
Why though? That just sounds like frivilous spending. Unlike somebody like CodeMiko who draws people in with the tech, people don't watch hololive for the tech. Would it be cool if Miko and Sora had 20,000 dollar motion tracking set ups? Of course, but it wouldn't increase viewership that much because tech isn't the draw, its the personalities.

>>4312347
Are they also going to buy ever single member a new home with enough space for the equipment, plus the space to discreetly store it so that they aren't advertising the fact that they're a vtuber to every person who visits their house? Using a phone-based tracking setup isn't just because of the cost of the equipment.

>>4279020
Yeah, nobody watch it. Just over 10k, 8k, 7k, 5k, 3k, 2k, 1k. Funny how this is nobody.

>>4280180
>>4280021
Nijisanji decline lmao Imagine what you would think when you look at the other agencies then.

>>4280540
This is so retarded, my god.

>>4312878
here's a tip
all posts with the word manjisanji is by a dedicated shitposter, a phoneposter might i add
he will have a field day when fuwa's 3D debut drops

>>4312925
how the fuck this guy still haven't been banned for trolling

>>4311865
You don't know how ownership works you fucking imbecile. Sony Music, not Sony, invested on Ichikara last year and the shares they hold is less than 5%. It's only money, they have no control, it's not a subsidiary.

>>4312577
>That just sounds like frivilous spending
It's talent-related spending, that's literally the only kind of spending they should be doing.
>Would it be cool if Miko and Sora had 20,000 dollar motion tracking set ups? Of course, but it wouldn't increase viewership that much
I think it absolutely would. The vtuber market is pretty damn saturated at this point, and the best way to stand out is quality. Veibae, for instance, grabs a lot of people with her design and keffiy's rigging (his work is the best in the industry as far as I'm concerned, he's also responsible for Kiara, Watame, Ollie, etc.), and her popularity spiked after she upgraded from her old 3D model in April. No matter how much we would love to think otherwise, we always judge books by their covers.
Sora already has a very fancy 3D model, she just needs better tracking hardware. Miko, on the other hand, needs a more extensive upgrade.
>>4312630
No one's asking holos to do cartwheels at home, all they need is facial tracking. Silvervale, despite her amazing facial animation, has very rudimentary motion capture, because she doesn't need it for her streams. So facial tracking is separate from mocap, and I really doubt it takes up more space than your average VR set. I have no clue what exactly she's using, but it works, and it's not as ridiculously fancy as CodeMiko's setup.

>>4313136
>It's talent-related spending, that's literally the only kind of spending they should be doing.

As far as drawing attention to their talents, their holoalt efforts seems to be a big investment that is paying off well. Before the lockdown, they already have a game focused series to show in their official channel to highlight their holopros. They have been grinding new sets for all of the 3D concerts that their talents have been doing. Honestly, the amount of money they got from holofes and bloom leads me to believe that they will absolutely focus on this. They have their talents on tubeout and vark as well. Merch deals left and right. As far as anyone can see, their PR optics is paying off. They get an "event" happening every week with new 2Ds and whatever. I agree with many, home3D needs improvement but I would rather have NeneHands right now. She's damn cute. Miko is also very animated amd funny with her hands. It's very entertaining. And noone actually is making a big fuss out of it. Even Subaru is making fun of it.

Cover's tech is done inhouse but they probably haven't hired engineers since forever, instead focusing on the entertainment side.

literally can't watch a niji stream

Nijisanji is doing fine, holos collab with nijis all the time without any sort of animosity and this stupid rivalry is for retards.
You won't find a Holo who does creative streams like Fumino Tamaki, and you won't find a niji who does drawing streams like Ina's. If you don't watch both companies you're missing out.
>>4314586
because you're a disgusting EOP, get good

>>4315506
sneed

>>4277040
Holy shit, Sora's is so bad. She can't even move her mouth, let alone her hands.

>>4314536
They are asking for feedback related to the from1st concert. They are totally going for that idol-streamer-entertainer structure. Stream mainstream games, release originals, do multiple concerts in 1 year and then merch the shit out of all your IPs alongside getting brand deals and sponsorships. Good tactic. I just hope the next album will be better hits.

>>4313033
>how the fuck this guy still haven't been banned for trolling
you have to go back you pathetic pussy

>>4278051
absolutely soulless

>>4281678
you mean chima, right?

>>4277040
jesus you can see how bad it is in the sora clip

>>4278051
2Dlive is unironically more charming than this. She reminds me of that Polar Express movie, in the sense that she wasted a ton of money on something that at the end of the day looks incredible ugly, creepy and is stuck in the uncanny valley.

>>4278051
Nijifag here, would rather watch a Holo than this uncanny demon whore entity

>>4277040
cover uses their own inhouse tech that's primarily 2d focused while niji will happily use whatever the latest and greatest is if it's economically viable. It's like how Zen has some of the best 3d tracking available because she uses a full room VR setup due to having had one before joining vshojou

>>4303933
>>4333432
>>4333472
>creepy 3D anime model
>uncanny valley
Illiterate fucks

>>4334606
It's both.

>>4305485
Mocap tech is prohibitively expensive, time consuming (putting on and taking off) and also completely pointless. It would also mean they couldnt be mobile with their avatars without taking a dumb fucking suit.

>>4333568
But Ichikara/AnyColor use inhouse tech too. They have the worst 3D among big companies back in 2019 until they step up and create their own tech.

You know that is not Cover tech right? It's a tracking You buy for 1k USD. I Guess now the manager let gen0 use it. Cover don't put money in Any of the girl's stream

>>4277040
If I were to hazard a guess probably because Nijisanji is partnered/owned by Sony. Despite Cover being a tech company their still pretty damn new and small especially compared goddamn Sony so Nijisanji has access to more cutting edge 3d tracking technology and resources.

>>4345912
>owned by Sony
it's not

>>4345912
>Nijisanji is partnered/owned by Sony.
They would have gotten the Sony copyright claim off of Amamiya's 3D debut stream by now if that were the case.

>>4345144
no you dumbfuck. they clearly test it. as miko was bitching about the flaws

>>4277270
>>4277347
then why am I not entertained watching niji when I am being very much entertained watching hololive?
you can't explain that.

>>4350960
Don't lie nigger. You never watch them. I doubt you even watch HoloJp.

>>4304543
Why would we seethe at a whore sleeping her way into good tech?

>>4353455
No one said anything about seething, anonchama. So that's quite Freudian of you.

>>4353548
Anon, your reading reps...

>>4290804
>>4313033
use filters. no more manjisanji

??

>>4279962
exception: Cute sheep. Where she used it somewhat monthly

>>4277040
What drugs are you on,anon?
Sora and Miko have always been 3d, since the very start, 2018 or so, being able to move their hands and stuff.

>>4290743
But Polka is based.
Also has been doing them for years now.

>>4304543
Damn the tracking is good.
The character design is awful.

>>4304543
God her model is so fucking bad..

>>4304543
Why would such good tracking tech be wasted on this model that looks like it was rendered on a PS2

>>4374853
It looks like furry fanart.

>>4304543
I think you can make a few good arguments against better motion capture. For once it starts to go into uncanny valley territory, which might scare a few people off. Also one of the biggest plusses right now is that hololive members can actually hide behind their avatars. They capture some of their overall movements and a bit of their expressions, but not everything. On the other hand they also have some preset expressions they can trigger which has good reaction image potential. I think that might be the biggest plus since reaction images are basically free viral marketing.

If they however do want to switch to some better capture system, it'd probably be best to do it all at once, but that would be expensive and overall a huge pain. I'm also wondering how difficult that would be to maintain, especially from a distance.

>>4334606
I take it you LOVED Alita battle angel?