/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

This is you?

>>41610412
Nothing is going on. Now go back over the firewall

>>41610412
too much pressure on the livers, bad casting decisions, too much effort on the JP side than the EN. Also it didn't help that their ace in the hole (Gura) practically disappeared. Those are the reasons why at the second half of last year I switched to Nijisanji

>>41610442
Who is him? I've seem that pic often these days.

Too much freedom along with shitty management are tanking the shit out of them.

I get letting them decide what direction they want for their own content, but the thing with that is, they still need to actually RELEASE content, which they're not doing.

The extra things like music, games, other jobs, art, etc. need to be on TOP of a regular stream schedule, not in place of it. "Hey, I just spent the last month and a half working on this 3 minute song." just doesn't cut it because
- 1) The majority of the work is done by others, be it writing the songs, mixing the songs, doing the art, etc. (With a few exceptions of people who do their own music / art)
- 2) They're not working nearly the same amount during that down time, but still collecting a check off people's good will.
- 3) A 3 minute song isn't even close to replacing the entertainment value of a months worth of streams.

The EN girls need firm contract based structure or else they're just going to do the bare minimum.

Likewise, management needs to be better. They need to both support the girls as well as push them into doing more.

>>41610605
>too much pressure on the livers

Maybe they need to cut back on the drinking and McDonalds

what? luxiem is doing just fine.

>>41610830
mamma mia i cooka da pizza

>>41610605

I hope you're trying to make a joke there because the freedoms and lack of pressure to actually do anything sure as shit isn't pressure. The EN girls aren't even required to stream, period, let alone any serious amount of hours per week. If they stream 10 hours a week each it's a lot for them, almost to the person.

>>41610605
What pressure? They all stream less than JP. Also they're geographically dispersed, so they don't even need to commute in for boring corporate meetings the same way JP has to.

>>41610962
>If they stream 10 hours a week each it's a lot for them, almost to the person.
This isn't true for any of the active streamers

>>41610962
>ENs (besides Kiara) averaged 350-500 hours last year
That 10 hours/week estimate is pretty much bang on, actually depressing.

>>41610412
What disarray? Ina and Gura took a break for health reasons, something that Miko, Korone and several others of the most popular chuubas did too. Mori alongside Suisei are the most successful musicians of the company (your imaginary basket weaving forum metrics are irrelevant btw), Ame is known as the innovative tech girl, Kiara is enjoying her next attempt at becoming japanese, mumei is regularly pulling 10k which is more than some other holos get, fauna is a fan favourite, kronii is still doing well despite the board (talking about) going up in flames, bae is having collabs and streams she deemed comfy without the shizos trying to go down on her full force anymore.

Just what disarray are you talking about? They're all doing extraordinarily well without (you) and will continue to do so. You may leave but it won't make a dent, most viewers aren't mentally unhinged and those who leave will be replaced by new fans in a matter of days.

>>41610412
Nothing. You're just a retarded weeaboo who doesn't understand vtubing is not culturally relevant in western nations.
Vtubing is just a high paying easy job, not America's Got Talent or Hollywood or alike, and they treat it as such.
Also it's Hololive, nobody in this company should put effort for a corpo that legally owns everything you make, even if comes from their own pocket.

>>41610412
Got rich quick, no management to speak of, and if you believe in the rrats or not, there's at least one for each of the talents being utter bitches to each other

>>41611035

Ame - 10 hours
Ina - 14 hours
Kiara - 9 hours on her channel, not sure if she's done collabs in the past week with JP senpai.
Mori - 4 hours

Mumei - 19 hours
Kronii - 11 1/2 hours
Bae - 7 1/2 hours
Fauna - 24 hours

Irys and Gura - 0 hours

Ignoring the two non-streamers, the average is 12 hours each, with 3.5 streams each on average.

This is also very much an increase from what they have been doing for the past few months.

>>41611048
I agree, which is why I point it out. The amount of money they bring in with how little they actually work is insane.

>>41610605
>livers

>>41611654

The hour boost comes because of two extremely popular games again as well: Pokemon and the resurgence of Minecraft. Without those, the numbers plummet.

>>41611724
...but what does the popularity of the games have to do with the number of hours streamed? Hours are hours.

>>41610412
>What exactly is going on here?
management and recruitment

>>41610605
>too much pressure on the livers
they should go to a doctor then

>>41611921
there are talents that only stream when a game they like is out. the one that comes to mind is Shion who will barely stream for most of the year and then binge a new Pokemon game for a month

>>41610830
"muh projects" has always been a cope by pathologically lying whores to excuse laziness. We know this for a fact because there are plenty of girls who stream regularly despite working on stuff in the back.

I do agree Cover needs to fucking tardwrangle them more, and fire them ASAP if they get lazy. It's hard to overestimate just how easy their job is and if they don't stream its probably because they hate it and have zero respect for the audience (ie. Kronii, who actually straight up admitted she doesnt enjoy streaming)

>>41610605
Gura's liver is probably taking a hammering now she doesn't stream.

>>41610605
>too much effort on the JP side
nigga what? lmao
There's nothing weird about supporting the og branch

>>41610648
propably just some nice kid whos picture unfortunatly has been chosen by some fag to become the face of SEAniggers

Poor management has sunken larger ships than HoloEN. For 2 years they could coast by on momentum alone, expending hardly any effort or resources. They've built nothing with the resources they were given, leaving them without a framework or foundation with which to build further and expand their influence and reach. Ame building a 3D studio instead of HoloEN itself just shows you how little management did, and how much came from the talents themselves.

>>41615010
The biggest difference with the JPs is that even the ones that never stream go into the office and do quiz shows on the main channel, hologra, 3D lives etc. So they're never really 'absent' to the general audience.

>>41610648
My oshi

>>41610648
>>41617981
It's a cropped out pic of a holofan holding a sign saying "mating press" with a hakos baelz cosplayer. Some nigger keep posting this cropped pic in every thread.

>>41610412
There’s too much to do for rules. There’s little benefit in return other than pure anxiety and shattered mental health. Hololive fans are also uniquely awful. This goes for both the jp and en side.

>>41611654
>Kiara - 9 hours on her channel, not sure if she's done collabs in the past week with JP senpai

One with Nene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIVwKgU5Xw
One with Koyori and Kanata:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvWqZiztrXM

That's another 3 hours for a total of 12 hours.
So even with Kiara not having internet fit for streaming at her hotel, spending most of her time recording and/or meeting JP holos offline and having a 21 hour travel back home, only Ina, Mumei and Fauna streamed more than her.

>>41610648
Some off topic shit that a /qa/ faggot is using instead of soijaks and the fucking jannies haven't caught on yet.

>>41618960
Imagine being so new that a week old meme is alien to you

>>41610412
The problems are magnified due to there being so few members of the EN branch after existing this long. People talk about EN3 constantly but to be frank by now there should have also been an EN4, EN5 and EN6 as well as another Vsinger to go with IRyS.

>JP
Gen1 debuts May/June 2018 (7 members with Sora and Roboco)
Gen2 debuts August/September 2018 (12 members) 3 months since start
Mio and Miko join December 2018 (14 members) 6 months since start
Okayu and Korone join April 2019 (16 members) 10 months since start
AZKi and Suisei join INNK May 2019 (18 members) 11 months since start
Gen3 debuts July/August 2019 (23 members) 14 months since start
Gen4 debuts Dec 2019/Jan 2020 (28 members) 19 months since start
Gen5 debuts August 2020 (33 members)
26 months since start
Aloe graduation Aug 2020 (32 members) 26 months since start
>EN
Myth debuts September 2020 (5 members)
IRyS debuts July 2021 (6 members) 10 months since start
Council debuts August 2021 (11 members) 11 months since start
NOW (10 members with Sana graduation) 28 months since start

>28 months since each branch was founded
JP had 32 members
EN has 10 members

>>41610412
Their success didn't come from hard work, but from being the first ones wearing the blue dorito badge for EN
They were handed a million subs and tens of thousands of members every month just for existing. They already peaked so why even try?

>>41610605
>livers

>>41619924
That was going to be the case for sidebranches. Look at ID, only 9 members

Which disarray? Take your meds

>>41618311
thanks for the explanation
i now remember that picture
he deserves to be the face of SEA then

>>41610412
>the most
no more

>>41620288
Connor was right all along.

>>41610605
>livers
>another blablabla this why i switched but actually please watch my-
no

>>41610605
>livers

>>41620417
There's two obvious problems with this reasoning
>EN's audience is an order of magnitude larger than ID
>EN is split into multiple time zones, with the most populous one having 6 members

>>41621105
This is what kinda pisses me off about EN. I hate Connor for saying that. He's truly a shit person who ignores the hardwork of holomems, and then EN just proves him right. It's so stupid. Many other vtubers are pulling their weight who don't deserve what Connor said about them but EN just crumbles.

>>41610412
Nijisanji broke their monopoly and allowed smaller corpos to start siphoning their viewerbase. That's what happened.

Alarm bells probably started going off when Council failed to stop Obsydia from growing their own audience, and it only took nine months for NijiEN to not only find a foothold in the west but straight up overtake them in active viewership and overall income. Cover lost confidence and returned to doing what they always do: copy Nijisanji. They introduced males, flew everyone out to Japan for quirky off-collabs, introduced mixed-gender collabs, but failed to realise that HoloEN was never built with branch unity or mixed gender representation in mind so their identity very quickly dissolved into what it is now - a husk of marketable designs, broken trust and endless hiatuses.

>>41617981
>has been chosen to become the face of SEAniggers
And that's a good thing. You can tell they don't like it.

>>41610412
because you cant do much with just an insane amount of algorithm luck
they were "successful" thanks to brand name or the work of the japanese girls

>>41622321
much more* the only thing going on was shart's algorithm and that's it

>>41622231
NijiEN at their peak only barely reached half of HoloEN's average viewership and have since fallen back to 30% of it

>>41621838
>orders of magnitude
It's not 2020 any more

>>41622596
That's why numberfaggots get ridiculed. You use numbers without any context at all. HoloEN has 1 stream up most of the times, NijiEN has multiple streams up. Max concurrent viewers per branch is won by nijiEN most of the times, they are just split into different nijiEN streams

>>41623865
>Complains about using numbers without context
>Cherrypicks a day when NijiEN had a full-branch tournament stream

>>41624344
Do you think HoloEN has more days in January with a higher combined peak than NijiEN?

>>41610605
>livers
How to spot the nijisister

>>41624453
I think most of them were in Japan and literally everyone knows this but will shitpost like that was a normal month regardless

>>41624681
Or, you know, reading that they switched to Nijisanji

>>41624733
Anon it is strictly a niji fan term
Look at what this fucking board is called

>>41617189
>fire them ASAP if they get lazy
That's part of the problem - you can't really fire them without a lot of backlash and fans just fucking off watching holos forever
Especially not Gura who holds like half of the EN audience hostage despite streaming so infrequently

The solution is pretty obvious: since maintaining chuubas is cheap and even runts like stars make Cover a profit, just hire more talents
If the existing holomem lose fans to newer ones, well, that's their fault for being either lazy or untalented

>>41625713 (me)
To elaborate, it's a problem because without the risk of being fired, it makes it much harder to apply pressure on your talents to work harder
And also, this only applies to a half of them at best - the other problem is half of them are part-timers and thus have RL distractions, and that's purely the fault of Cover's recruiters

>>41611294
>What disarray? Ina and Gura took a break for health reasons, something that Miko, Korone and several others of the most popular chuubas did too.
Ina didn't just take a break she went radio silent for over 2 months right after saying that she really doesn't like revealing outfits. Since than Myth members have been getting sick every time there was a major group collab whether it was Halloween, Among Us HoloEN, or Christmas. While fans might not have connected the dots they know that something is off.

It isn't a surprise that hololive members would have problems with Cover not giving them any creative control over their model or default outfit. Flare is one example where it took her over 28 months to get a redesign.

>>41624344
>complains about cherrypicking by cherrypicking one day
Really?

>>41626271
See >>41624699

>>41626380
>Ina has been back for nearly 3 weeks
>Ame has been back for a week
>Gura is MIA
>Mori is Mori
>Kiara just got back, but had been streaming fairly regularly
>Fauna has been back a week or so
>Mumei has been back two weeks
>Bae is still there
>Kronii has been streaming a few days a week and never went
No excuse.

>>41622596
>>41626271
This just shows that individually holo EN is much stronger than niji EN, but niji EN has reached a critical mass that on days when EN is barely streaming (really common the last couple months) or for large collabs/events, adding all the tiny niji EN fanbases together usually beats EN
This shouldn't be surprising: you see the same thing happening in JP as well, where individual holomem are far stronger than livers, but you have events like koshien that have far more viewers than the largest holo events

>>41610412
Do you know about Yahoo? They were at the top of the world but they didn't know who they were catering to. Now you can buy them for a single penny. Fortunately, holoen is not representative of Holo in a general manner.

>>41627033
HoloJP is usually on top of NijiJP by cumulative viewers too these days, as is HoloEN when they actually stream
EN's sole problem is not having enough members to fill a schedule

>>41627202
True
But the point about large collabs/events still stands, where you can fully leverage all those individual fanbases even if they're small, niji ones often beat holo ones

>>41627033
Pretty much. People use the term 'quantity over quality' but it's actually 'strength in numbers'. Niji has less blockbuster 20k+ streamers but if you placed members of each company side by side for viewership, you would exhaust the entirety of Hololive before Nijisanji was even close to exiting it's 4-7k viewership range. The drop in viewership is far less steep than Holo.

But that's JP where both branches have their own identity and have been fully established for years. They don't get in each other's way. EN on the other hand is different because Hololive had an iron grip on the market and just decided to fucking throw it all away. The fact we are even able to have a somewhat considered discussion about present day NijiEN being bigger than present day HoloEN is a testament to how hard Cover dropped the ball from an executive standpoint.

>>41627463
This is cumulative total viewers for JP, yesterday JST (so up to 30 minutes ago). The red line is hololive.

>>41611654
That is a lot of hours, also streaming wouldn't be the only time they work even if they are just prepping for the stream they are doing that day.

>>41626380
>See >>41624699
They also lost November and December
>>41627033
A bit of both. HoloEN is stronger individually because they barely overlap each other compared to nijijiEN, but collectively there are more people watching NijiEN streamers most of the days. Of course, nijiEN has reached the point where they are canibalizing each other's viewers but we don't know how HoloEN fanbase will do with new members and more overlaps

>>41627463
While it's true that Cover has fucked up with EN, I think it was inevitable for niji EN to be competitive even if Cover somehow did everything right
For ex, there's no way Cover could have replicated Luxiem's success due to both lack of chinks (a good thing imo) and holostars being a poisoned brand
Like, even if Tempus somehow debuted before Luxiem, I bet Luxiem would still be larger

>>41627821
The companies dont seem to compete or care what the others are doing, Some of the streamers care while others do not

>>41627800
>November and December
This is still basically the same issue, they don't have enough members streaming. It's very easy to 'win' if your opponent doesn't show up

>>41627950
And? The numbers for the past 3 months are right there. They get higher individual numbers because they barely stream nor get overlapped

>>41627800
>they barely overlap each other
Due to how disunited holo EN is nowadays, many actually don't suffer from overlap as much, or put another way, many have relatively strong floors regardless of overlap
I say "many" because while there's the likes of Gura who seem to be barely affected, there's also Bae who gets murdered by overlap

>>41610412
Free rent

>>41611608
>nobody in this company should put effort for a corpo that legally owns everything you make, even if comes from their own pocket.
Holy BASED.

>>41628293
Seize the png of production

>>41628076
Your original argument was that they'd lost viewers relative to other groups, and that is demonstrably untrue when they actually bother to stream
They are down from their peak in absolute terms, but so is literally everyone except holoJP, who are somehow at their highest viewership ever (both average and total)

>>41624733
They never switched.

>>41628396
All the layoffs from tech companies

>>41626008
>my shizo delusions tell me things
nigga are you always so full of cringe or are the voices especially loud today? Talk about embarassing display.

>>41628396
>Your original argument
That's not me

>>41611654
I'm starting to think "HoloEN doesn't stream" is just a /vt/ meme.

>>41628552
They absolutely had a shortage of streams for the last ~2.5 months, that's why even redditors were seething about getting homos instead of EN3
There's also a difference between streaming hours and frequency. I think most people would rather have more, shorter streams at more consistent times rather than them showing up a few times a week to play Pokemon for 8 hours

>>41627950
that's basically what I've been trying to say from the beginning when I said the pressure thing: they took a shit ton of breaks last year, Irys, Fauna, Ina, Gura is still MIA. Holofans like to say it's because of pressure, but that is the reason why I switched to Niji: more streamers and less mental breakdowns. I gave up on Hololive because there was a time when the 3 streamers I followed were all simultaneously on break and I had nothing to watch

>>41628742
You know you can watch the people you like from both, right?
I'm also greatly amused by the idea that Nijisanji has fewer mental breakdowns, but maybe that's more of a JP viewer perspective

>in such disarray
>still mogs ALL nijinogs

>>41611608
Then they will be made to quit eventually. Say bye to their high paying easy job.

>>41628953
See >>41625713

>>41625713
This. There's millions of people lining up to do their job. It's far easier than most celebrity type jobs like acting or performing.

>>41619318
yeah imagine not being on this board every fucking second of your day browsing every thread in the catalog
you're such a loser

>>41618395
retard

>>41610412
They need a minimum streaming requirement per week if they wanna stop losing momentum.

>>41627800
put the number of streams because everyday is 1 or 2 holo streams vs 7 or more from niji at the same time, also you are only counting the holo girls, yesterday Fauna, Ame and Mumei had 20k but Magni was also streaming with 5k and Kaela overlapping with 3.5k

>>41634353
Including Tempus is fair, though including holo ID is just rubbing salt in niji's failure with their former ID branch

>>41624996
>switched half way through last year to niji aka started during ILUNA debut and branched out to actually good older waves
>Infected by the term in those 6 months
easy religion conversion, your God is dead and the faith is dying out. have fun in the church of dead hours

>>41610605
>bad casting decisions
Oh yeah I'm sure you're enjoying ILUNA, dude. Definitely not a falseflag.

What happened?

>>41610605
>too much pressure on the livers
Perhaps they should stop drinking alcohol

>>41610412
your first january? heh kid, buckle up

Lots of the most successful businesses are in shambles in one way or another. To be the most successful, they cut corners, push ethical boundaries, forsake the long-term for the short-term, and do other dumb things.
It's an airplane they slap together as fast as possible, and they just hope it doesn't crash and burn until after they drop themselves off at a peak and retire.

Will 2023 be the year of the mass graduations?

>>41610412
conformity kills motivation

>>41628912
It's almost Holotrash is a thing because it spams recommendations people's homepages despite their streamers are dogshit who barely stream.
You know I'm feed up with Holoshit and their undeserving audience, it's time to launch a large scale report spam, Holotrash is literally killing vtubing for everyone else by hoarding all this undeserved fanbase.

>>41636968
There will 5 total graduations, with each branch getting at least one.

>>41610605
>Livers
Niji shill detected

It's management.
It's always management.
Too much oversight on solo streams with all the permission shit, yet too few support on projects and collabs. Fauna's halloween shorts were probably the last big EN projects and it got terribly promoted. Stuff like Gura's game show should be properly supported because it's the type of content EN lacks, but Gura is not the kind of person able to pull this off by herself (and it ended up a disaster).
There's nothing wrong with breaks and vacations, it's actually necessary to a point, but you need to make it up with projects and new gens (and no, Holostars doesn't count, you shitposting fucks) or it will just put more pressure on the people left streaming and put the whole branch closer to burnout. It's a vicious circle.
I don't only blame the EN management by the way, they're probably understaffed and are spending most of their time micromanaging permission shit. Meanwhile Cover is pissing money away as if they were Elon Musk with their HoloEarth and Alternative shit.

shitty management, unmotivated grifters that got into vtubing for the paycheck, top brand in the business(for now), plus the low cost to run a chuuba compared to the money they bring in. money coming in = happy managers. the talents can coast, so a lot of them are doing just that.

>>41610412
I hope oneday there's a documentary about how it all fell apart.

>Most superchatted EN vtuber in 2022(Vox)
>3 views with extremely dedicated paypigs making ridiculous bank
>Numbers holding steady for all of the EN girls
>Full NIjiEN concert coming up
>Actual proper 3D debuts for Lazulight
>Niji shits out merch like crazy and it tends to sell out quickly for their popular livers(so no merch cope numberfags)
>Vox was recently tapped to do a sponsored stream for showerheads, they sold out twice before the stream actually happened
>Vox beat out the official genshin stream when he did a stream on Bilibili 2 weeks ago
>Just debuted JP group is being used in adverts for jewelry
>Salome is a marketing machine, mostly cosmetics and other female related products

HoloEN is in complete and utter shambles and getting utterly crushed by NijiEN, Holo had a good chance to dominate the market and they threw it all way, and for what? Absolutely nothing, Nijisanji is general started out the year swinging while Cover sits on their ass.
Well deserved, all Cover has ever done is copy Nijisanji anyway, they never deserved their success.

>>41637312
I sincerely hope so, too much trash in the current meta

>>41638312
If you were a real fan and not a tribal retard, you would actually support Niji's 3 views instead of shitposting in Holo threads.

>>41638312
holy retard

>>41610412
That's how it is to be at the top. sony, upd8, niji...
If you're not YABbing constantly, are you really top of the world?

>>41611921
agreed. most game streams are boring as hell anyway. i am so fucking tired of the same standard garbage everybody plays. pokemon is a god awful streaming game and i am so fucking sick of elden ring. for fucks sake look for something people haven't seen before or come up with something that isn't a game stream.

>>41639571
at this point react content is far more interesting to watch as long as the chuuba does the bare minimum of actually commenting it.

>>41639571
That's why I moved on to indies, at least they have much more interesting game picks.

>>41639571
Game streams are only fine in three cases:
- the player is very skilled and it's enjoyable to watch (doesn't apply to most chuuba)
- "social" games, basically free collab content (Rust, Minecraft, party games,...)
- story game you can enjoy with your audience, like a movie watchalong

>>41639693
Gura was on the right track when she asked chat about react content. Her Night of the Living Dead stream was actually fun.

>>41639745
Indie are not stuck with permission hell.
But then we're back to the main issue of Cover management being shit.

>>41639571
Anon? When was the last time someone played Elden Ring? Are you okay?

>>41610412
NijiEN doesn't have their problems

>>41639836
That's only half of the problem though. The other half is that it's obvious that most HoloEN talents aren't really into video games so even if they didn't have permission issues they still wouldn't stream interesting stuff.

>>41638312
Based

>>41639835
no one in hololive that i am aware of, but they also haven't been around to have normal streams. I'm sure ame will pick it back up at some point, but others vtubers outside of hololive have been playing it.

>>41639932
It has its own unique ones

>>41639804
It still pisses me off that they hired a shitposter but won't allow her to shitpost
Yes, Gura hates her PL and is happier as a holo, but you can tell she still likes the occasional shitpost

>>41640038
Don't worry, Cover's doing their best to copy niji drama and yabs
Seriously can't believe how much shit tempus has got into in just half a year

>>41639956
It's true, but when your talents can't even stream shit like Final Fantasy, you've got issues. A gaming-focused HoloEN would end up completely miserable.

>>41640005
Huh, I'm surprised anyone is still playing it, all the streamers I knew about finished months ago.

>>41610412
Tempus killed HoloEN. Mori, Ame and Kroni helped.

>>41640254
>Seriously can't believe how much shit tempus has got into in just half a year
Women are just easier to tard-wrangle since they're weaker to authority outside of menhera meltdowns.

>>41639835
>When was the last time someone played Elden Ring?
Rushia is playing.

>>41640479
And there's still a strong chance that StarsEN3 will come out before EN3, or that EN3 will be Tempus3

>>41628476
Cover shills use mockery because suggesting that people should believe everything a corporation says would only work in the subreddit. Aruran got a redesign after 37 months so there have been talents in both hololive and holostars that fought with management for years because they never liked what they got. Tempus even had someone that complained on his RM account so at least five talents have wanted a redesign.

>>41628552
Because they haven't been streaming a lot next to the alternatives. Take VShojo for example, both because Twitchtracker makes it easy, and because they're groups of similar size.

Kson - Roughly 6 hours but she's been doing a lot of IRL stuff in relation to her Yakuza cabaret auditions
Nazuna - 10 hours Split between 2 accounts
Silvervale - 15 hours
Melody - 9 hours Twitch, roughly 7 hours CB
Froot - 19 hours
Nyanners - 20 hours
Ironmouse - 21 hours
Zentreya - 36 hours(!)

Roughly 137 hours combined. That's with Haruka sick, Hime being Hime, and Vei only just having returned from a vacation and currently 5 hours into a stream I'm not even going to begin trying to math out what Nijisanji's been putting out over the last 7 days but I can guarantee you they've got an overabundance of content to keep viewers in their ecosystem when one of their own is sick or on break.

>>41610412
Imagine after Council, instead of getting Tempus1 and Tempus 2, EN3 and EN4 debut instead. How different would things turn out?

>>41640871
I understand complaining about Flare and IRyS's redesigns since they were very much needed and took too long, but Aruran had a perfectly fine design to begin with. I understand that getting KPOP'd gets more numbers, but his original design filled a niche.
Most members want redesigns and upgraded rigging. It's not Cover's fault that they can't fit to everyone's taste. Talents knew what they were signing for when they got into a big corpo.

>>41641095
Twitch shit is mostly reaction and low effort content and doesn't deserve comparison.
If you want a relevant example, stick to NijiEN.

>>41610605
but seriously guys we can't let yagoo get his hands on the nuclear codes

>>41641738

>>41641095
I mean when you put it that way, people like Mumei and Fauna streamed as much as Nyanners and Ironmouse. Anyway the real reason "HoloEN" doesn't stream took off is because Myth fans dominate this board and Myth hours other than Kiara massively declined, especially Gura.
NijiEN's model works because they have so many people that they can have multiple people on break without affecting content choice much. Like look at yesterday. Around half the branch took the day off but there were streams to choose from because there's just so many people.

>>41641808
What, the fuck are you crying about? You could have used any corpo with relevant content to make your point, and you chose Vshojo.

>>41628836
You must've missed Mysta around debut. Poor guy got mental breakdowns from his mental breakdowns. Even with the discord leak, some people were more concerned for his mental health than they were about them dunking on Council. And ofcourse there's Vox, too.

>>41642024
VShojo has 11 members, HoloEN has 10. Comparing two groups of similar size is fair and avoids cherrypicking since Nijisanji EN has 31 members currently.

>>41625713
You're saying Cover should accelerate and turn into Niji even more?

>>41628836
Anyone sane already picks and chooses vtubers they like between corpos and indies. I feel like it's just catalog shitposters saying shit like this but who knows, maybe some people really are that dumb and brand-addled.

>>41642269
EN3 is long overdue. It has nothing to do with Niji, they need replacements for people like Gura who are realistically never coming back. It's impossible to get any big collab or events going just because of lack of people.

>>41642269
There's a huge ass gulf between holo EN's 1.5 year (and counting) gap and niji's shitting out waves every couple months

>>41642330
>maybe some people really are that dumb and brand-addled.
hard to image when both companies(not the talents) are shit. Niji seems to have a lot more freedom, but they never seem to invest much in their talents. the merch is always low tier(no nendo's, plushies, or daki's) and they really have events, though they did finally make 3D models for lazulight. Holo seems to just have the worst management team and drop the ball on just about everything, but they do make way better merch for fans.

>>41642198
Twitch content is just too different from regular vtubing. Their numbers are hugely inflated by low-effort shit like endless reaction streams and watchalongs. It's a much bigger discrepancy than "they have more members".

>>41641600
> premade designs
>Not Covers fault
Cover chose the premade design route so cover will deal with the consequences

>>41642663
holy cope

>>41642841
It's not particularly untrue, though. It's unrelated to VShojo but those Fextralife guys for example get a ton more views than they actually have viewers simply due to Twitch counting embeds from the wiki, for example.

>>41642939
And viewcounts aren't what's being compared. Hours streamed is.

>>41642836
That's just how it works.
It's either big anime/gacha artists and premade characters, or you stick to small artists who will spend more time on your character.
Don't sign for Hololive to begin with if it's an issue.

>>41642841
How is it cope to ask for a relevant comparison? It's not like there's a lack a corpo who stream more than HoloEN. Hell, I bet you could pick anyone and it would work, even small ones with real work on the side.

>>41643073
Find an example that isn't cherrypicking. If I picked 10 indies people would just say I picked 10 indies that stream a lot to make Hololive look bad. If I picked 10 indies that barely streamed then I'd look like I was trying to defend HoloEN. If I had rolled randomly then I might not get a representative selection given the sample size is so small and the pool is so big. Meanwhile we have 2 groups with an almost equal amount of talents that all employ full time streamers.

>>41642836
Some of them do get to give feedback on the design pre-debut, Kiara has talked about this a few times.
It seems like generally the more busy and high-profile the artist is the less likely it is, which makes sense (someone they grabbed off Pixiv is going to have more time to talk and do updates than Huke or Wada Arco).

>>41628552
Pretty much. There's only 10 + IRyS. NijiEN has a bunch of streaming monsters on top of having 30+ English talents. 11 talents is actually comparable and smaller than many of the "small" EN corpos (Phase has 15, PRISM has 12, Kawaii is down to 12 from 15, even Tsunderia has 12ish before imploding last year) - which are only really small in terms of audience rather than streaming hours, which drives further unfavourable impressions.

>>41643320
10, not 11. Sana graduated so 5+1+4 = 10.

>>41643196
>Find an example that isn't cherrypicking.
Literally anyone but Vshojo.

>>41643786
How about isegye?

>>41643786

>>41610412
>Bizarre
What?

>>41643925
You're not supposed to mention them

>>41610412
all you have to do is to open their "holopro" twitter account and realize how much mngmnt hates them to the core

>management tries to wrangle chubas to actually do some work
>WAAAA MANAGEMENT BAD BAD BAD
>management tries to give freedom to chubas cause of backlash
>WAAAA MANAGEMENT BAD BAD BAD
i dunno, have you morons ever thought about holding your lazy oshis accountable?

>>41610412
Management is 100% the issue in HoloEN.

>>41610412
management made the colossal fuck up of prioritizing homoEN over holoEN, they will never recover in the west, JP fans are at least able to police their own shit

>>41610412
my own theory is that most of them were confirmed failures before joining hololive and thus are not fit for success. they would be nowhere without the corporation.

>>41646573
>management tries to wrangle chubas to actually do some work
When did that happen?

>>41646812
bruh, Tsukumo Sana graduated because management wannted her to stream more.

>>41646871
one of the best things they did, they are weirdly soft, out of touch and retarded at the same time

>>41610412
Mori

>>41646871
That was on her for having 2 jobs, hololive can't be a part job anymore. She tried to balance both and maybe she could do it but in the end it was too much for her. It wasn't management's fault that they wanted her to do some work (as it should be) and she wasn't able to deliver

>>41647696
Sana had no issue with streaming when she wasn't on a break. The issue is that she went on breaks for so long and so often, it made it looked like she was stealing a living.
Handling two full-time jobs is just not viable and will lead too inevitable burnout even if you look like you may pull it off. Sana wasn't booted by management. She was forced by circumstances to choose between her two jobs and decided on the one she cared the most about instead of renewing her Hololive contract. Ina is handling it better, but I don't know if going awol for months is a viable strategy. Especially since not everyone know about her roommate stuff and professional obligations.

>>41611654
kek
hire shit get shit.

>>41638086
HoloEarth is a long term project they will make back their investment at some point.

They’re all in my basement right now.
We’re going full Fritzl.

Cover should sue Omegay for corporate sabotage

Funny how all through 2021 and most of 2021 with the sole exception of Omegatroon's cringey tweets there wasn't a single peep about management throughout all the awkwardness, autism, feuding between chuubas and hiatuses, but suddenly everything under the sun is their fault now.

>>41651803
based

>>41652162
it's that or blame the talents, and people actually like them

>>41648698
>but I don't know if going awol for months is a viable strategy

>>41611003
>they don't even need to commute in for boring corporate meetings the same way JP has to.
Yeah, they just have to fuck up their sleep schedules and wake/stay up at 3-4am instead.

>>41652162
The girls are suffering burnout, because they aren't being supported by management. That's why management encourages them to stream less and take more breaks, instead of actually helping them with their projects.

>>41641095
>Zentreya - 36 hours
Figures that he's the only one putting in actual work hours

>>41652585
This is literally every hololive member. Prime time for streaming is in the evenings.

>>41652449
there are tangible results to ayame's returns meanwhile I think we only got those doodles from sana

>>41654961
>there are tangible results to ayame's returns
If you're her banker maybe.