/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

Holo treats its irrelevant stragglers infinitely better than Nijisanji.

Prepare for 300 replies screaming about nijisanji

Never forget

>>41058079
Niji shows partialism. Just look at Luxiem vs rest of Niji en

JPs actually stream and deserve what they get.
EN with a few exceptions should have never been created.

>>41058034
>what's a realistic reason anyone should choose to apply for HoloEN
They make you world-famous overnight.

>Axel just confirmed Gura killed herself
The reason Cover is shitting themselves because their top talent an heroing getting out could kill the company. No one has any idea how to handle anything going forward so everyone has just stepped back from each other.

>>41058034
I hope Kiara and a few others join NijiEN and everyone else in HoloEN retires from Vtubing.

>>41058034
>JP company
>JP is special

WOW WTF

>>41058034
>>ID is basically self sustaining because management abandoned them
This would literally be the best thing to happen to EN, all we ever hear about are projects getting fucked.

>>41058079
How so?

>>41058034
Why would Cover care about EN, views are at the bottom, hardly gets any superchat anymore.

>>41058034
>what's a realistic reason anyone should choose to apply for HoloEN over NijiEN or any small corpo or just staying Indie?
Free advertisement for your indie channel.

>>41058785
Nijisanji is basically a Canadian doctor. When their vtubers aren't doing well, they actively encourage them to graduate.

>>41058034
Very simple:
Hololive is still the largest boost for you to start out. If you play your cards right and put in just a bit of effort, it's an easy 6 figures per year type of job, especially if you're a girl. NijiEN is considerably harder to grind out, especially with how many talents are there already, and you still have a lot of restrictions in what you're able to do. Small corpos don't take a considerable percentage and is generally a good option if you are not that interested in making the big leagues, but there's a bigger need for keeping your gachikois happy which is more stressful. Going indie is a lottery and chances are you'll lose out in the end unless you luck into a viral moment and advertise the shit out of yourself, or you bust out something novel.

>>41058927
kek

>>41058927
>aren't doing well
Physically? Or numbers wise? Any clips of a member confirming this?

>>41058079
>>41058785
In a proper business, Stars would not have even 1, let alone 2 full blown group concerts. They'd have worse tracking & model than indies. Some won't even have a 3D debut. They wouldn't be able to attach pngs to their model. No mindchairs to get people talking (even if only in passing)

tl;dr yeah even the shitters get treated better

>>41058593
qrd?

>>41058034
>tempus
3 views don’t deserve anything
>EN
maybe work a little harder
>JP
branch with 36 people gets the most resources wow shocking

>>41058034
Maybe the problem is the completely incompetent managers they hired for the foreign branches who don't push for fuck all outside of the bare minimum. At least the ID one actually tries to get permissions and managed to bring the 1st gen girls to Japan for their 3D showcases, something that might never happen even for Council or any of the StarsEN guys considering how utterly retarded and unwilling to work the EN staff is.

>>41058034
At least they got more than 1% cut from merch

>>41058034
>post trying to shit on corp accidentally makes them sound based
Many such cases. Sadly they're treated much better than they deserve.

>JP members stick together, take on management and fight for what they want
>EN members are a mix of a few who want to be idols, a few who hate idol culture, a few who only joined to boost their career outside hololive and a bunch of twitch shitters who just want to use the brand to promote their friends

Management is a problem but so are the talents

>>41058034
>The absolute utter
You retard moron, learn to write without your Alzheimer's affecting it, not reading that shit.

>>41060447
Fucking this. I agree that management sucks, but when a problem arises, instead of finding a solution, a workaround or a substitute, most ENs just sulk in a corner playing their FOTM games, waiting for someone to take pity on them, and I'm not buying that Cover is impossible to work with.

Why would hololive abandon EN when they have an ironclad grip on the North American market? They own that shit

>t. 2view hopeful trying to dissuade others from applying to HoloEN

Good luck 2viewchan!

>>41060861
>they have an ironclad grip
roru
rumao

>>41058034
>>The girls are treated like shit and 2nd class in their own company: no shit its a japanese company and theyre xenophobic af
>>The boys are starting to be treated like shit and 2nd class in their own company: stiil a japanese company and still hating on filthy gaijin influence
>>JPs get fucking everything (actually not really but they get a hell of a lot more than anyone else no matter how you wanna cope): same point as the other two
>>ID is basically self sustaining because management abandoned them: thats great for id since they re part of the same japanese company as en which is a company of japan
>>After all this Cover will take 30% of everything you make (+youtube's 30%): thats how the streamer career works. if it was a real job theyd be getting 0% of the donos
>>You aren't allowed to complain at all: you can complain all you want. but its better to actually do something
start a petition or some shit. go to japan. put together an actual argument. id be the first one to support bringing japanese companies into the 21st century by explaining basic economics and business practices to them and letting them know that yes it is important that employees dont quit
but a lot like the video game or anime industry streaming is way too new and way to profitable for people in charge to want to focus on what is in the long term most profitable and instead want now now now.

>>41059758
Bit from /MANS/, Axel did a member stream and talked about some things he felt cover did badly, and people started pretending he talked about Gura to mess with people without memberships.

>>41058034
>After the past year+ of complete mistreatment and mismanagement (for both the males and females), what's a realistic reason anyone should choose to apply for HoloEN over NijiEN or any small corpo or just staying Indie?

I'm obviously only speaking for the EN female side here, but as long as Hololive still has the biggest clout and inbuilt massive fanbase that makes it still the golden ticket in western female vtubing which catapults any new talent to a six-figure subcount even before debut (so before you even did anything, showing it's not about your own talents at this point but only about the general "brand buff") and a six-figure annual income afterwards because the slavish fanbase will throw money at you basically just for showing up, HoloEN will have no shortage of willing applicants.

Yes, most of them will probably primarily motivated by money, but even among those there's probably still gonna be a few of them who are actually entertaining and also like to stream regularly, and it's Cover's job to separate the wheat from the chaff and pick them in the selection process. Of course, you can argue about the quality and actual end result of Cover's scouting process (or the fact that they seem to sit on their asses not debuting EN3 for far too long, pushing homos nobody wants instead) but that's another discussion.

Point being, for many applicants, alot of your issues (uwu I'm gonna get "treated like shit", side branches get no support, I can't do special projects, game permissions are a major pain in the ass, etc.) don't really weigh that heavy compared to the allure of the potential money of the job, which can paper over alot of cracks. Also, a lot of applicants probably don't care anyway that they are gonna be treated as unimportant sidebranches with no support for special projects, because they don't want to do special projects anyway, they just want to stream minecraft for a few hours per week and rake in the cash. And that's fine, insofar as someone who actually just streams regularly is still even an improvement over like half the current HoloEN roster who maybe want to do "special projects" or shit but don't even put in the basic streaming work

>>41058034
Cover has always shown favoritism for the JP branch but it seems to be getting worse. holoX in 2022 received the following:

2D New Year outfits
3D default outfit
2D and 3D accesories with their default outfit
3D swimsuit
3D yukata
3D idol outfits

>>41058147
Gura and Mori were the only ones in Myth that got any support for 3D sololives. The rest of Myth was told to deal with it themselves which is why Ame had to hard carry the EN branch with her projects. There has to be a certain amount of resentment in holoEN that they get the same amount of money taken from them as the JP branch while getting a fraction of the support.

>>41062371
I'm waiting for if EN3 every drops to see how true this is because I honestly think the hype in the west has died down and we'll see diminishing returns for every new gen.

>>41060447
Management wouldn’t fucking have this problem in the first place if they just did their job properly in the beginning

>>41058034
How about all the pros of being a holo(EN)?

>>41058034
EN is crippled by Cover’s need to get permission via fax machine. You don’t need permissions to stream any video game in the US, it’s considered Fair Use. They are being hindered by Cover and taxed 30% for the inconvenience. They are an IP farm with zero output, they “designed” the model and retain ownership of it. Even the design was outsourced to artists with actual talent, meaning Cover is just a swarm of mediocre middle managers. It’s like the most arrogant concept artist that expects you to come up with everything else, then pay them for the privilege of using their design.

>>41058034
sure, the boys are the ones that take long ass breaks and only come back whenever they need to milk money from their audience to go in to another break again oh wait, those are the girls lol, take your meds OP.

>>41063486
Shut up Tempiss, no one cares about you.

>>41063430
>it’s considered Fair Use
You know that's bullshit and game companies can take down your videos whenever they want, right?
Only reason it does not happen because it would be bad PR.

>>41063048
The only pro is money. It's a really big pro but there isn't much else.

>>41062437
Wow I can't believe these JP girls who live like 1 hour from Cover HQ and the 3D studios get all the 3D stuff before a bunch of people that were spread all over the planet with travel restrictions.
Council also got 2D New Years outfits at the same time and they're in the middle of getting brand new outfits now so they're ahead of HoloX in 2D.

>>41061583
>Homofags are all deranged Gura antis confirmed.

>>41058034
go outside

touch grass

find a new hobby

stop being a bitch

you guys will blame management rather than the fanbases for being incredibly vile and repulsive.

>>41062437
While it's obvious Cover wants to push HoloX, I don't think they were deliberately trying to piss on EN and ID. EN and ID getting nothing during Hololive summer was just bad enough a look that you'd almost forget that Myth and ID1 got to show up at Holofes and also were featured in a HoloAlt PV.

>>41058034
>JPs get fucking everything (actually not really but they get a hell of a lot more than anyone else no matter how you wanna cope)
As they fucking should you cheekyt fucking rat, They're dragging the company along while the EN's don't fucking stream at all, Kiara said she got motivated after she collaborated with the JP members for a reason.

this board acts like hololive is a slave camp because the members don't play random game that /v/ plays

>>41065282
consoomer onions neckbeard kun, you're a bitch who takes it

>>41065577
oh really? you're bitching that a japanese company isn't putting english first?

HoloEN don't do fucking anything together, they don't plan anything, they don't do collabs, they don't do casual tournaments or projects it's just lets play this FOTM game and then be done with it.

There's more to V-Tubing than that but they're too lazy to do it.

>>41065913
or when they do projects, it ends up like m*ris jump king tournament.

>>41065173
/mans/ had about 100+ extra IPs from tourists so doubt it was even them.

>>41061583
>Axel did a member stream and talked about some things he felt cover did badly,
leak it

>>41066064
>When someone has a problem they usually go on break or hiatus but I don't want to do that because it slowly ruins the trust between you guys (chat) and me (the streamer)
>Then they'll come back and say everything was fine, but that's not really the case

>>41066179
so thats literally an opinion

>>41058034
You make fucking bank for playing video games a few hours a day. And maybe they dont get nearly as much support as JP, but I doubt EN has even half the responsibilities their counterparts do either.

>>41061478
> but a lot like the video game or anime industry streaming is way too new and way to profitable for people in charge to want to focus on what is in the long term most profitable and instead want now now now
Half true. I think it’s just that it’s so new nobody *really* knows what they’re doing. And a lot of people claim they do, but who really knows? It’s like reading rrats on /vt/. If you don’t know that much about the context, who knows if anon is saying something sensical or full of shit.
The big problem is that people who understand how to appeal to audiences often have no idea how to get the business side together and make that content without going bankrupt. And the people who understand how to get the funding and invest in projects don’t have any idea how to monetize it effectively in a way that doesn’t shit up the content.
And also, audience preferences can change, so corpos have to anticipate that fact and figure out when to change things and when to keep them the same, and what of either to do when.

>>41058079
Their JAPANESE stragglers

>>41066433
*they're

>>41063590
The one thing that’s slowed HoloEN’s recline has been the holobox, I think. Sure, HoloEN is nothing like HoloJP, but if you don’t watch other vtubers other than vshojo or something, it’s easy to chalk it up to an inherent flaw of the EN market (ie why Kiara’s chicken voice sounds like shit in English but not Japanese). HoloEN giving Tsunderia or Kawaii or Prism exposure early on would have been a terrible idea.
But the one thing that keeps casuals sort of interested out of inertia must be soul-draining for the girls themselves. I imagine it was possible to get everybody onboard when it was about protecting the growth. But when being isolated and not actually interacting with other vtubers is only so you can slow the recline? That’s gotta suck. And even now it’s not possible anymore, the recline’s so bad that pretending other corpos don’t exist is laughable. So now even Mori has acknowledged Pippa, but there’s still way more of a holobox than in smaller corpos.

>>41066462
That’s literally not what I meant

>>41066522
I'm sure the girls enjoy doing a mountain of japanese paperwork to do one stream with a small corpo chuuba. I wonder how long bae was signing dotted lines to have fun with her friend

>>41066522
the bigger problem with EN is that they also kinda can't go into other collabs. I might not like nijien or vshojo, but a collab with someone else would be great. interactions are always nice to see.

>>41066692
Imagine the irony that someone like Miori would be perfect for EN3 if they wanted to save the branch, except given how clingy she is to her fans and her history (Mio’s been in two corpos, and it’s always been as Mio), having to stop being Mio and reincarnate is the one thing that, perms hell and autism over covers and shorts aside, keeps her from ever joining even though one of her best friends is already there.
I get why they do it, it’s so they can do stuff like HoloEarth and Hololive Alternate and the HoloX manga is stuff. You own the characters like they’re from anime, and the rm gets a cut too.
But that doesn’t work in the west because we don’t have the multimedia infrastructure for anime characters to appear everywhere and cross-promote everything. Here, streaming is the *only* part of vtubing that survives, and they can kind of branch out into music, sort of, at best. The avatar and the rm are tied together *way* more in EN than in JP, where in theory you could be a clipfaggot who doesn’t give a shit about streams and still make the company a lot of money through merch and the other stuff.
HoloEN opened the door, but streamers with anime avatars is what’s grown it since. They’re just streamers with anime avatars because outside the stream, there’s nothing to make it *feel* like an anime. If Cover wants that to change, they have to build it.
TLDR: Cover has to invest more into EN despite it getting a lower return on investment and not take profitability into account, or else there will always be a ceiling to their potential in the west. A ceiling they’ve likely already hit.

>>41060447
>Uwahhh!
>Me no like Twitch cause they... LE STREAM!!

>>41060610
Well they wouldnt be playing FOTM garbage if the fans werent turbo shitters who debuff literally everything else.

>>41066179
cant believe axel would call out ina like that

>>41066313
no dance lessons, no singing lessons, no brand sponsorships, no 3d Lives, no corporate promos

the most EN gets are invites to random conventions.

it's laughable how the EN branch can complain about how hard they have it

>>41059539
He heard it in a dream

>>41067880
everything went downhill after bitch left, management started powertripping, arbitrary guidlines were made, and homos started to get promoted

>>41068323
I figured as such

>>41068317
That’s arguably why they have it harder, anon. I’m sure different members think different things. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if behind the scenes, one of Council’s problems is that everyone except Bae was lukewarm on idolshit (I heard Mumei’s been getting singing lessons though, so maybe some of them are in a gray area).
If you go through past streams, so many of them are autistic/have ADHD/both/something else that being forced to do those kinds of lessons would probably be a plus, assuming they want to do idolshit. From what I’ve heard it’s not nearly as much as actual 3D idols. That sounds like the kind of push several of the members would appreciate, since they wouldn’t have to do it themselves.
I realize she’s the boogeyman of Holobronies, but Pippa once explained on stream why she likes being in a corpo. It’s because you don’t have to think about stuff other than your content. In this case, someone like Gura who wants to be an idol but also has to think of good content for streams would probably appreciate not having to worry about both. These girls didn’t join a corpo so they could take initiative and build up demand for idolshit and convince JP to do concerts, Gura arguably thought that joining Hololive was meant so that the big Japanese corpo with all the money would do that for her.

>>41062437
it's almost as if the JPs stream way more, hmmmm

>>41068317
they get paid fuck all for those con appearances too, they're there to help the cons so management can make business ties to the cons
Management just use the talents the same way the talents just want to use hololive
almost everyone in EN including management is just trying to build their own "brand", only a handful are actually interested in being hololive idols

>>41068392
I agree 75%. I would qualify that the gears of change were turning behind the scenes for months, and she made her decision to leave (in late March iirc?) because of that. Her staying wouldn't have stopped it, because it was already happening with her there.

>>41071011
I knew EN management was fucked and wanted to appeal to zhangs when they wouldnt let her collab with EN

Gundou suspension deflection post

>>41063580
>doesn’t understand Fair Use
Let’s Plays without commentary wouldn’t be considered transformative, the presence of the streamer and their commentary does.
https://cdas.com/fair-use-in-gaming-content-faqs-for-creators/

>>41071803
Fair Use is a defense when you're sued, not a rule that companies are obligated to follow. If they're bigger than you, or more willing to pay lawyers, they can do whatever they want. And YouTube and Twitch will *always* side with them.

>>41071803
You think this matters? Game companies can still strike down your content and what are you going to do, spend thousands of $ and years arguing in court?

>>41058034
>>The girls are treated like shit and 2nd class in their own company
Stopped reading there. If the girls act like WHORES they deserve to be treated like WHORES.
They're all a bunch of lying cunts who lied on their resume, they all were in a relationship and even posted proof from their RM accounts online and still had the face to apply to be "idols" in hololive and the worst part is that the biggest lying cunt of them all even calls herself "the idol of hololive english" and yeah I'm talking about the blue pathological liar AKA the shark girl Gawr Gura.

>>41072311
>*Glass shatters*
BAWWWW GAWWWD KING ITS GURA SHES HERE BAWWW GAWWD AFTER BEING CALLED OUT BY 41072311 SHES WALKING DOWN THE RAMP READY TO WHOOP HIS ASS BAWWW GAWWD

>>41058927
There's dozens of 3views in JP and a few in eEN, and many ex-ID are 2view tier, why have they not been forcibly graduated?

>>41071803
That link straight up outlines how it's not a slam dunk case and the result depends heavily on what your video is like and how much your judge understands what video game lets plays even are. The article YOU posted says that if you plan to invest heavily in making money off video games (like a massive streaming agency perhaps?) you should seek legal counsel. Legal counsel is going to tell you the safest thing to do is get permission.

>>41068317
and thats why they're not going anywhere. you wanna win, do the idol work. hard work pays off, and honestly EN doesn't do that shit.

>bla bla bla
Shut the fuck up.

>>41058034
>JPs get fucking everything
Japanese company. Don't like it, start your own.

>>41065282
>you guys will blame management rather than the fanbases
Explain how the girls are hindered by their own fanbases so we can all laugh at you

>>41076229
they see you retards

>>41065282
Consumers don’t have any responsibility or obligations, producers do. If consumers act like retards, producers have to adjust accordingly. If their changes piss off the consumers and make them leave, it’s the producers’ fault.
You’re forgetting something really important, which is that consumers are a collective of people. I don’t act like a retard in chat, go gachi for a vtuber’s rm, or seethe when she collabs with males. Even when I want to talk shit about someone, I vent /here/ and keep my mouth shut elsewhere. I also know that I can’t control the thousands of retards who spam the same joke to death in chat or the hundreds of schizos who act up here.
It’s the vtubers’ and the management’s job to figure out ways to reduce viewer retardation. If they can’t do it without destroying their branch, that’s their problem. They’re the ones trying to make money.
Besides, most of what makes it harder for them is the large audience. They’re essentially suffering from success. They got lucky, misunderstood what contributed to their success, and didn’t adjust for those issues in advance/quickly enough because that costs money. Boo fucking hoo.

>>41063590
Money, exposure, networking, free carreer path, literally everything from a professional standpoint, if any of them doesn't end being millionaries with multiple sources of income after that, it's on them

>>41058034
all the >boys (you mean homos) should be trated like shit, like complete shit, those leeches dont deserve anything, they are dead weight.

>>41079911
The whole branch is dead weight.

>>41079911
t. so obsessed with cock that he ignored the entire OP

>>41069130
>have it harder
not really, most of the girls cant even handle the bare minimum of work, i cant blame the company for not giving them more stuff to do, myth (with a few exceptions) should be fired and the next time they should also consider not hiring female yankees, they tend to be overprotected kidults who are not used to actually work.

>>41076740
>f consumers act like retards, producers have to adjust accordingly. If their changes piss off the consumers and make them leave, it’s the producers’ fault.
and it also can lie on the fans.

>>41058079
Prove it

>>41058129
based

>>41065282
My hobby was videogames, you people ruined it
My hobby was comics, you people ruined it
My hobby was films, you people ruined it
You ruin everything you touch

>>41090908
If you think it was anyone beyond greedy capitalist CEOs who want to swindle a couple bucks from people that ruined those things, you're either blind or retarded.

>>41058034
i bet Kiara or Amelia wrote this post

>>41058147
if you want your girls to get shit then you should do your part and pay more than the yumejos kek

>>41069130
too bad all they've done for gura so far is say no to shorts, say no to daki and say no to a bunch of birthday things she had planned just before her birthday. the shorts things is especially confusing since marine was later given permission

>>41058034
and they allow male collabs, they really are worthless

>>41093440
Yeah pretty much these I hate male collabs and male vTubers but I don't think it has anything to do with 'muh SJWs' just cover wants to get those Vox bucks

But fuck cover for real. They're awful all around

>>41090908
>you people

>>41058034
They still make more money than working a normal job.

>>41064569
They're fucking Vtubers, the whole point is that they can do it from almost anywhere.

>>41058079
True. I mean Yugo lasted, what, 8 months before they axed him? Meanwhile gura streams a lot less and Yagoo will never fire her.

>>41058034
JP vtuber management are leech cartels, more news at 11!

>>41090908
{{{{{{{{{{"""""""""""(((((((((((((they)))))))))))""""""""""""}}}}}}}}

>>41058079
Even risu have personalise merch and 3d live live debut

>>41059539
There was this one liver that used graduation a threat towards management. They got tired of her games, called her bluff and made her graduate. I guess since then that shit doesnt fly anymore and will let you gowithout much fanfare now

>>41062371
>HoloEN
>clout
NijiEN dominates twitter and gets to collab with Twitch. Also guess which songs are being used on the karaokes of indi vtubers, clue: not HoloEN's.

>>41063430
>You don’t need permissions to stream any video game in the US, it’s considered Fair Use.
No, its not. Companies just choose not to kick the wasp nest

>>41066311
?

>>41058034
>what's a realistic reason anyone should choose to apply for HoloEN
to fuck my oshi of course

>>41100819
Yugo wasn't axed by numbers, there were a bunch of issues both on stream and behind the scenes involving coworkers and management.

>>41097860
Still better than zhangs sucking pooh's cock

>>41060060
They are in japan right now...

>>41058034
Is this what happens when unicorns and incels can't rag on co-gender collab numbers anymore?

>>41058034
>what's a realistic reason anyone should choose to apply for HoloEN
i barely work and make six figures as a junior, and so i see the reason to make it to holoEN is to have an early retirement.

>>41058034
More money and more fame to carry them when they inevitably leave, simple as.

>>41104379
I guarantee en management had nothing to do with that, the id branch got their girls in a long time ago after all. it was the
en girls deciding to go or they got invited by some jp members

>>41103748
And if we're talking numbers, fungus should've been axed first. It took him 6 months to pass an already graduated Sana

>>41079911
mindbroken

>>41065297
HoloALTpv are nice and all, but it doesn't build up to a full anime or anything relevant. It's like having a cameo in a movie, and people will be happy to see your face but it's just brand recognition.

>>41096458
>men are smarter with their money than women
Can't be helped.

>>41101736
>not knowing the whole thing about how Meiro is a fucking moronic bitch
>but still reply with delusional fanfic

>>41100819
There are members in NijiJP streams less than 30 times despite debuting for 5 WHOLE YEARS.
And he still gets 3D and performs in NJU.
You fucking EOPs are just ignorant.