/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

the future is already here

>>39449277
you're a retard see you at 4th fest
>>39449354
dying channels not even 6 months in rumao

>>39449383
the fes is for JP, EN and ID are just guests, retard.

>>39449518
>are just guests
they're getting their 3D for it, double retard.
just "guests" rumao.

>>39449383
You're a retard. The fests are horrible.

>>39449277
either they shine at holofes in march or they get pruned
ID got to look good at the last live, EN needs to do the same

>>39449383
>4th fest
You mean JP7 announcement time?

>>39449277
ogey

>>39449277
nice

>>39449277
>try to be relevant again
as if anyone on /vt/ knows how to do this

>>39449277
i mean myth is just cooked, they never had to work for it like the early JP gens they showed up during covid and a massive algorithm boom for vtubing in the west, they are the definition of right place right time, and thats ok, i really just hope the shit stops with the "guys i need a break" its so exhausting at this point. Its not all on them though, they never once had managers or advisors to guide them and teach them anything. I really wonder wtf the 400 employees at cover do.

>>39449277
It can't succeed again, the work ethic in this branch will soil any new talents.
At best we get good streamers who stream consistently (4 streams a week) for a month and then once that fat first paycheck comes in for the first time they'll pack it in like the rest of EN and rake in membership money till people wise up (it'll take years)

>>39449277
With two gens, Holo EN really need help. At the very least, Holo ID can speak English.

>>39449277
Myth and Council are completely fucked.
People are begging for EN 3 thinking that it will fix everything, but it wont. They begged for KiaraxPomu collab for 3 years and when it finally happened it was nothing special.
Other girls debut and stream more than Myth and Council, but no one watches them.
I'm starting to think the problem is the hololive fans.

Maybe force their employees to actually work for more than 3 hours a week, also stop hiring talent that have other jobs/ are students and are just going to treat vtubing as an after thought.

>>39449277
For as long as the male disease exists the branch will never again even approach the glory it once was. Tempus destroyed its magic. The first step towards any sort of recovery is to get rid of them, and remind the girls that the reason for them being here at all is simple - Japanese idol culture in English. None of these things will happen however, and the branch will continue to stagnate and recede. Small corpos who have learned from HoloEN's mistakes will draw in more and more of ex-Holo fans by appealing to this or that niche. From loli to idols, we already have a buffet of choices. This loops back to the maletuber thing. It was such a stupid decision. By introducing Tempus HoloEN destroyed its defining feature and identity and chose to compete with its lesser adversary on their own turf. The plebeian, vulgar option with its pee pee poo poo "humor" and even less namable shit - Nijisanji. The irony here is that Hololive mutated into Nijisanji while Nijisanji mutated into VShoujo. The only winners are small corpos because they can't afford to fuck up and are thus in tune with their audience.

I think individuals will emerge unscathed, in due time. Girls like Kiara, Fauna and Gura will have a future in vtubing with or without Hololive. However with Gura now absent because of her health it's very obvious she hard carried the branch even with this spotty year behind her. Her name actually means something and has prestige, paradoxically greater than that of HoloEN itself. The shark outshined the company. But like I said, girls like Kiara will always find their place if they decide to call it quits and change companies or something of that sort. I personally don't see HoloEN succeeding in changing the tide or doing anything worthwhile. I am in it only for Gura after starting out as a Myth fanatic during the golden age. There's just too much baggage and bad blood now.

>>39449277
They should debut 4 gens a year and watch as 90% of them fade into obscurity

>>39463275
Injecting new blood (and one that the fanbase is largely tolerable of) usually helps in reinvigorating the older talents, one for giving them some shiny toys to play with/collab with, two to give them a little bit of competition which works to some degree, and in EN's case, you'll lower the risk of burnout when people are actually sick like Kiara but feel like they absolutely have to stream because other people are out of commission.

>>39449277
Let Fauna decide the new nepotism hires. She knows what she's doing, unlike everyone else.

/vt/ loves ccv, but it's 'hours watched' that best relates to revenue earned with YT, especially with EN having fans in different time zones. Notice how Gura's 4 streams has more hours watched than most of Hololive, including those doing over four times as many streams?

I blame the continual release of boring streams as the main cause that pushed old HoloEN fans and tourists away. It also explains why the EN that streamed the most still have low views. Only the diehard fans have remained. Think about it when next watch some of those streams. While there is still some buff content that will attract what's left of the remaing pool, little tourists remain after being bored to death.

If new EN3 continually puts out low-effort streams, it will drop once the honeymoon period is over. Hololive should keep its primary goal to finding more Pekoras, Mikos, Guras, ex pro-gamers, and such. Then hope for the best.

>>39465345
how do you pull those magic hours watched numbers?

>>39462247
Out of those 400 employees, 50 of them get Yagoo's coffee (there is one stationed at every zone in the building he might walk around in), 250 are making grass textures for Holoearth (most of whom will be let go when the game's done), 50 of them are ad/marketing/merch people, 40 of them handle payroll/HR/how best to waste superchat money and drink the coffee Yagoo did not need that day, and 10 of them handle permissions/talent management/scouting/visions and goals for the branches. Of that 10, 8 of them are for HoloJP and there's one each for EN/ID.

>>39465451
>>39465511

The presence of Tempus makes recruiting for a new gen very difficult. Male collabs are an inflammatory topic and everyone seems to have an extremist stance on them, including the talents themselves. If a new gen is announced, the question on everyone's mind will be, "Will these girls collab with Tempus?" If they do, the girls holding out against male collabs will feel alienated, and many fans will leave holoEN for good. If they don't, the same goes for the girls and fans who promote male collabs, as well as Tempus themselves. A gen of mixed opinions would have as poor unity as Myth or even worse, and could agitate both sides as it becomes clear management isn't willing to pick a side. It's a difficult issue, and it could very well be holding up the next gen already.

>>39462247
They are developing holoearth lmao

>>39465703
or management can fucking grow a single sperm cell in their collective balls and say "nah this didn't work nevermind, starsEN is now seperate like how starsJP is" and if some girls unironically quit over that they weren't good fits as Holos to begin with/were out to try to undermine it this entire time.

Seems like no one is managing it.

>>39451638
ID1 esp Risu and Moona are high bar, none of the Council could surpass them in a concert. ID2 will be a disappointment while ID3 will restore the hype around ID in holofes 2024. So unless EN3 can be on the same level as ID3, then EN is doomed.

>>39463862
>>39465703
>>39465756
"Cope Cope Cope Cope
All You Do Is Cope
Nigger Nigger Nigger Nigger
Show That Boy The Rope!"

>>39465703
It's not that deep. I like how this is somehow the main issue that's in front of your mind and not if a potential EN3 would even have quality streamers who give a fuck about their job. If anyone harms their own viewership, it's due to their handling of the subject and their lack of streams, not because they chose to do a collab like that in the first place. /vt/ aren't the only people in this universe who watch Hololive, not every single viewer out there wants to have a romantic relationship with the streamer. You act like it isn't a multitude of different variables that causes people to stop watching.

Content, game choice, and other streamers can all affect this shit. And yes, probably the streamer not doing another ASMR whispering that she loves you while wrapping an Albertson's bag around the mic ALSO can make people stop watching. Holy fucking moly.

>>39465477
Taken from #s, and as noted, with data scraped from VSTATS, While the accuracy is debatable, the closest we can get? Of course, it's not showing the whole picture. Mainly of streams. Mori's album has pushed her near the top with just views...and maybe the help of deadbeats looping.

new girls could never collab with the boys for as long as they want but /vt/ retards will still complain because of the potential of collabing with men

>>39466386
So made up numbers? Being a numbernigger truly is a disease

>>39466466
>So made up numbers? Being a numbernigger truly is a disease
Or you can just look at the total views of those streams yourself. My fault for trying to explain to a retard.

>>39466720
how does youtube count those views? Do you assume every person watched the entire stream? Sounds to me like you're pulling those numbers from your ass just so you'd have more graphs to jerk off too

>>39462426
There is an outside chance of something working out if the ones who do stream can mentor the new hires. And in theory, the new hires should be well aware of the problems plaguing EN and extra wary of not falling into that trap themselves. But inertia is a bitch, and Kiara, Fauna, Irys, and Mumei live pretty far from each other. And I have doubts that whatever retardation within management that helps sap everyone’s enthusiasm isn’t going to magically go away with EN3’s debut.
So it’s possible, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

>>39465345
This is just my personal experience/opinion, so don’t take it as gospel. But I find just watching an anime girl play video games kind of stale. When I watch vtubers, I’ve found myself far more likely to stay when it’s some sort of variety stream where there isn’t a video game in the way of interacting with chat. Actually, I think my favorite kinds of streams are zatsus.
Yeah, I know HoloEN does them too, but for whatever reason, the few times their streams have gotten recommended to me lately, it’s usually some video game let’s play. I don’t know why Bae is still struggling so much. Maybe if she collabed more outside the corpo, tourists who are over HoloEN already will notice her?

>>39466803
I admitted that I don't know how exactly it's calculated by VSTATS, Reason I said to look at their views: Calli's month old stream is still at 50k, while Gura's has 503k. VSTATS calculation is quite forgiving for Calli in not assuming the whole stream is being watched, or it would be worse.
Plus everyone knows that Gura's streams are consistent in keeping viewers, while Calli's sharply drops off.

>>39449277
>So whats next for HoloEN?
Closing the branch.
Western vtubers were a mistake.

>>39467359
>I admitted that I don't know how exactly it's calculated by VSTATS
>VSTATS calculation is quite forgiving for Calli in not assuming the whole stream is being watched
Do you know how it works or do you not? Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about

>>39467324
I totally agree with you about the video games. The exception is watching them play a game they love. Their excited energy transfers onto you. And to make fotm games interesting, they have to add extra content which Pekora, Miko, and Gura are experienced at. So end up not watching for the game, but for their shenanigans.

>>39467474
>Calli's month old stream is still at 50k, while Gura's has 503k. VSTATS calculation is quite forgiving for Calli in not assuming the whole stream is being watched, or it would be worse.
>Plus everyone knows that Gura's streams are consistent in keeping viewers, while Calli's sharply drops off.
Calli's month old stream is still at 50k, while Gura's has 503k. VSTATS calculation is quite forgiving for Calli in not assuming the whole stream is being watched, or it would be worse.
Plus everyone knows that Gura's streams are consistent in keeping viewers, while Calli's drops off.

>>39467975
Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it any more real, you can't admit to not knowing how something works and then in the same sentence claim that you know how it works

>>39468144
Calli's month old stream is still at 50k, while Gura's has 503k. VSTATS calculation is quite forgiving for Calli in not assuming the whole stream is being watched, or it would be worse.
Plus everyone knows that Gura's streams are consistent in keeping viewers, while Calli's drops off.

I'm offering you a chance to rebuke this.

>>39468272
>Plus everyone knows that Gura's streams are consistent in keeping viewers, while Calli's drops off.
How should I rebuke your made up points? Do you have any proof of your claim? Not to mention that the original argument is about your hours watched numbers being made up, are you just trying to stay clear of that since you know you have no way to win that argument?

>>39468508
>Plus everyone knows that Gura's streams are consistent in keeping viewers, while Calli's drops off.
You chose this to make your point it's made up.
Surely you don't watch HoloEN. Troll elsewhere.

The only reason there hasn't already been a new EN gen is because guaranteed one of the hired talents dropped out last second and threw the whole plan out of wack. Its clear they lost one of their planned hires and have been trying to find one to replace that spot.

>>39468743
>debut with 1 less member
>make up lore reason why they're late
?

>>39465941
I'm not sure which is worse: thinking you actually made that up or that something was enjoyable enough for you to want to share that.

>>39468685
Sure, so you're just going to ignore the original point? Hours streamed is an imaginary number. # is a cancer upon this board

>>39467688
I avoid zatsus that don't appear to have a topic. I don't want to watch someone just stream for some money with almost no effort. I like the games as long as they put some effort in beforehand other than queuing it up for download. I think one of the magic elements of collabs is that they can add a bit more than usual. I really enjoy collabs. I am not going to watch the 3rd 4th 5th pertson play fotm.

>>39469089
I agree. While zatsus are enjoyed by the closer fans, it also pushes away tourists. My personal pet peeve is seeing streamers constantly beg for money. Leave that for the ATMs. Yep, collabs are great when their interactions become the focus, instead of just playing the game.

>>39468831
Or consider Cover's autism for a second.
>All their mainline Hololive gens have 5 members
>They want a cohesive and strong group that get along well/have great synergy together
>Would rather take time to find another good match for the other 4 and build back up any synergy again
>Muh group dynamics

>>39449277
They will recruit more homo until EN become worse than ID

There is actually a top thread on Reddit right now praising the girls for, I shit you not, "persevering through the tough 2nd half of the year." What? There's only like 3 ENs left right now if anything they have failed miserably. But basically they can continue to be stagnant and fags will still support them so why would they work harder?

>>39463862
With current EN management EN will fall. This is the biggest issue of EN. They are very incompetent and made plenty of bad decisions. If you watched the shark you'd know what they did to her.

>>39470424
>gen 0
only azki and sora and they didnt even debut together or even start at the same branch
>gen 1
lol, maybe foobs and festival
>gen 2
choco and subaru
>gamers
cat and dog
>gen 3
flare and noel? im not really sure
>gen 4
nope
>gen 5
now, this is probably the gen that actually has chemistry, polka branched out to bakatare though
>gen 6
looked great at first, not sure where they at now

>myth
KEK, maybe back in 2020
>council
seemed great at first, we now know they were just faking it

no idea on the IDs, i skip their collabs because they speak indonesian when they do

i don't know why they focus so much on 5 women working together bullshit, they only had 1 decent gen for it, and it was broken during the first week

>>39466182
Ur reply only apply to niji, a corpo in which everyone except top dogs have to fend for themselves. Group effort give better image to the branch and idols are supposed to work as an unit

idc if holoen becomes irrelevant to some of you. As long as they continue to be better than NijiEN all is well.

>>39471150
Shut up tourist, why talk about group dynamic when you don't even know smok and senpaitachi?

>>39449383
>Dying channels
>Still inclining

>>39465345
All you're saying is that hololive fans dont watch streams

>>39466182
All i want is one thing
just one fucking thing
I WANT MORE HOLOS THAT ACTUALLY STREAM FUCKING VIDEO GAMES
I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAVE TO FUCKING GO TO TEMPUS FOR HOLOS THAT STREAM VIDEO GAMES
WHERES THE FPS? WHERES THE JRPG? WHERES THE BULLET HELLS? WHERES THE VR GAMES?

>>39471702
fucking retard, your reading comprehension reps. i listed them by gen because it was the topic i was replying to. i mentioned bakatare because i know about their off gen group dynamics. go be a faggot somewhere else.

>>39449277
HoloEN's pretty much done for. They threw away what they had, pushed away their core audience and chased away literally the biggest vtuber sensation that has ever existed all for nothing. They could teach classes on HoloEN as to how not to manage a brand.

>>39474668
All they had to do is stream.

>>39463275
>and when it finally happened it was nothing special.
Respectfully disagree. Pomu singing Hinotori and Kiara singing DCL was 100% worth the hype.

What do you mean? HoloEN is still active! I was just watching Kaela Kovalskia earlier today!

>>39470785
That is basically the weirdest subreddit I read. I had no idea those sorts of people used reddit. It feels like a facebook group.

>>39465345
Watch time is by far the MOST important statistic on youtube, but it gets in the way of /#/'s "CCV is king" mentality so they never acknowledge it.

>>39466386
#s doesn't even give that much importance to that shit because hours watched has such shit accuracy. If they could access chuubas stats from their account itself then it's importance would be elevated. Frankly, VOD views have more importance than hours watched

>>39466182
It’s absolutely the main issue. You can’t cater to everyone and the coed shit is absolute cancer to a lot of us. Stop trying to ruin our thing and go watch the nijmales and their harem girls.

It's the Metroid: Federation Force problem. People wouldn't have minded some side content (males) as much if the regular mainline output was still consistently going. But Tempus just had to come out during the lowest point of the "nostreams" era of HoloEN, only exacerbating the problem.

>>39451638
If they looked good then, then why is ID1 still pulling the same numbers they did before? Seems like they are just doing about the same as they used to with not much change.

>>39474922
>Kiara streams
>still terrible numbers.
>Ame streams.
>no increase in subs whatsover.
I'm not sure where you are looking at but just streaming isn't the problem.

>>39449383
dying yet they still earn subs even at a slow rate

>>39477844
tempus has been dying since day 1, they should be dead anytime now -anon, the schizo

>>39477713
Well what do you expect to happen when the face of HoloEN (Gura) is actively killing it by not streaming? When she does stream it's always low effort or low energy with endless unfulfilled promises. When your face is like that, it doesn't matter what the finger or toes do because people only look at the face

>>39478339
there is a reason why Cover has been pushing Mori more recently.

>>39477421
Pretty much this, with an added impact from chuubas either misjudging or disregarding their audience.
There was so much pot stirring and controversy that just didn't need to happen.
That controversy could have been absorbed with decent streams and some unity events. Instead, it was just break after break after break.

>>39477421
I disagree.
It came at the perfect time.
No one is streaming, but Tempus is streaming.
I watch Tempus and realize that they actually put in some fucking effort. Meanwhile the EN girls do jack shit and they mix it in with some terrible communication that only makes the problem worse for them.

I love Ina!

>>39449277
>So whats next for HoloEN?
HoloLegends
Holodesert or HoloWildWest

>>39471772
>>39477844
They're already earning subs at a StarsJP rate and are below HoloEN's growth barely 5 months after debut. Also only one of them crossed the 200k subs mark and 2 of them are borderline 3views. The EN staff invested all the time and resources of 2022 on them and they ended up being stupidly underwhelming to complete failures, especially when they rushed to debut them because they didn't want Anycolor to dominate the western male vtuber market.

>>39477421
That's the problem of the EN staff's desire to make HoloProEN a thing. They completely misunderstood the true demand for StarsEN when they only listened to reddit and twitter and thought they would be as successful as the girls were, but they ended up performing worse than even the low tier HoloJP members. In a way they were both cheapskates and greedy at the same time because they didn't want to invest time and effort to debut both an EN3 and Tempus this year but also wanted the latter to be fully integrated to HoloEN à la Nijisanji unlike how their JP counterparts are, and the only thing they got was enough backlash to force them to make a public statement protecting Kronii's ass.

>>39449277
>IF I KEEP SAYING IT IT'LL BE TRUE

Behold, the nijinigger fears the Holochad.

>>39486616
>They completely misunderstood the true demand for StarsEN
what is the true demand for StarsEN? surely it's not just Vox Akuma 2.0

>>39487755
Cover wanted a Vox 2.0, and with how often twitter and reddit begged for a StarsEN they genuinely thought they could have their own Luxiem.

>>39465941
Wow based! You said nigger and cope! I can tell you have been here a very long time!

>>39474668
What pushed away their core audience?

>>39449277
Literal Holocaust.
After months of underperforming, zero support from Cover and disappearance of at least few members they will got absorbed into JP branch and dorgotten.

>>39451638
>>39465870
I'm expecting to be surprised by Bae's dancing and Moom will probably do something memorable.

>>39477651
Moona's gained a couple extra thousand loyal ccviewers, more for MoonUtaus (which regularly go 10-14k now, before was 6-8k max).
Risu is now solidly 1-2k whenever she decides to stream.
Iofi is the real winner here, going from 300-600 viewers to around 1k +-200 depending on what she's doing. Sometimes even goes up to 2k.

>>39478339
>the face of HoloEN (Gura)
That's ok.
The belly of HoloEN (Mori) and the ass of HoloEN (Kiara) are holding the fort over on the Myth side of things. CouncilRyS is also keeing things warm, even Kronii.

>>39484856
The finny thing is that with how things are going, Hololive can easily win attration game against Nijisanji by doing absolutely nothing. AnyKara bleeding money big time and unless they will not figure out something really quickly, they will be forced to announce bankruptcy and then God knows what will happen with streamers. Are they gonna be fired or purchased by other company? Or maybe AnyColor will allow them to buy out their assets and license to use them?

Management of HoloEN is fucking out of touch because they tey to compete (and lose) against company that is on borrowed time instead of just doing rheir own thing.It's the "Luigi wins by doing nothing" case but in fact Luigi decided to do something and fuck it up

>>39492361
I'm sorry for my ESL-level grammar. I just woke up 5 minutes ago. But I hope that people got the point - HoloEN's big issue is engaging in battle with Nijisanji instead of doing their stuff.

>>39465345
Haachama... Lapras...

>>39471772
>>39477844
>>39478100
Cope, this is what homobeggars call "success", imagine killing the biggest western vtuber group for this, kek

>>39492807
>spic
opinion discarded

>>39449277
I've been casually thinking about this the last couple weeks and I'm going to preface this by saying I don't watch everyone. I do however come from an entertainment and community relations background.

Myth just feels fucking dead in the water. It seems like Gura is just making excuses not to stream, Kiara is still... Kiara. Ame just feels like she's fucking given up. It's hard to explain, there's just such a lack of energy from her that seemed more prevalent 6 months to a year ago. Have never been able to stomach Cali, but it still seems like she just doesn't give a fuck about Hololive shit. Ina is my oshi and she's been dead to the world for over 2 months now. Which is a fucking eternity in internet time. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she graduates shortly after 4th fest.

I went from being super excited for Council to not giving a shit to actually enjoying them more than Myth lately. For one, most of them actually stream consistently, and they still sound like they have some life left in them. Kronii, though, needs to figure her shit out. I understand and enjoy the monotone dryness of her personality, but sometimes she comes off and legitimately bored and that's not good. Both fortunately and unfortunately, I think Council is at it's best when they're collabing together. They really seem to have the best dynamics and interactions with each other than when they are on their own. This is especially obvious to me with Mumei. They also seem to have better relations with Myth than Myth do with each other and make those steams much more enjoyable.

Out of Stars I only like Vesper and Magni, but pretty much only watch Vesper. Altare can be funny, but goddamn does his fucking try hard breathy fag voice make me want to punch him in the face. I don't give a shit about purity and idol culture so them collabing with the girls doesn't bother me, but even Hitler understood the appeal to exclusivity so I get why people would be upset.

Vesper's suspension really showed once and for all that EN management is pants on head retarded. It was blatantly obvious before that but that event really sealed the deal. It's honestly probably why Myth feels so fucking done with shit since they've been dealing with it the longest. Moving forward, I think Cover needs to start taking the EN branch seriously and get some actually competent people to facilitate larger events, perms, and just general overhead. SOOO many of the recent dramas regarding talent could have easily been avoided by coaching them on proper community engagement. Couldn't hurt to get some stream ideas guys in there too to help come up with fun interesting streams that it's not always on the talent.

Also Cover seriously needs to update their tech and models. You look at some of the shit on girls like Snuffy and you can immediately notice the difference in quality. For being the leader in this sphere, it fucking embarrassing.

>>39473993
it's pretty clear they didn't hire myth and council for their passion of gaming.
the other day i watched luna play cities skylines for nine hours. aki did a full playthrough of cyberjank when bae touched it once and dropped it.
botan has played hotline fucking miami. vesper plays autism games and can make watching it enjoyable because, surprise, your own enthusiasm transfers to the audience. kiara and fauna are closest to this i think
FOTM will always be bread and butter and it is best to accept that but EN could use a gamers gen that spices things up.
i'm talking actual grande autismo hours. more playing classics, sticking with games to completion, charismatic poopsocking

>>39449383
4th fes like 4 months from now

>>39492361
>>39492507
That's obvious. HoloEN was Cover's first big win against Anycolor because they decided to do their own thing instead of copying the competition and making the Indian and Korean branches, and it was such a dominating victory that you could see Anycolor moving fast to rename "EN" back to IN and open auditions for the actual NijiEN, which for most of it's first year was just a middling success with honestly quite good talents who suffered with the lack of visibility the branch had in the west coupled with HoloEN's strong domination on the region. It wasn't until Luxiem that Anycolor found actual success in the "west" taping into the market that Cover obviously didn't had any control over it, but also being boosted by another market that completely banned their access, and even then HoloEN still had a decent-ish hold over the western female vtuber market as much as Council was rather underwhelming (which wasn't their fault, Cover took WAY took long to debut them that the hype reached an impossible level for anyone to achieve). Cover's 2022 strategy should've been debut EN3 earlier in the year and then debut StarsEN later on if they really wanted to compete against Anycolor on that arena, and even then no matter when they debuted the male gen they would still be the slowpokes without access to the Chinese market so I really wonder why they even bothered with it.

>>39494267
And that's hilarious because EN was meant to be about "streamers" rather than "idols", but the actual idols in JP are more interested in fucking playing games than the streamers. HoloEN was completely mismanaged from the very beginning and their explosive success was actually a detriment to them because it rewarded incompetent people who expected it to be the next HoloID only to find themselves with the biggest names of the entire market. It absolutely made their own egos inflate to a level that they truly believe if it wasn't for them the branch would never take off, and that's why we see so many retarded decisions being made for it.

>>39491748
Also, Moona’s latest original song is performing well relative to everyone else’s originals, only behind Mori (who has UMG backing). Even if her subs don’t regularly show up for her gaming streams, they do show up for her karaokes and her MVs, which is her long term focus anyway.

>>39449277
hell

>>39494267
Fauna seems to stream stuff she likes. Luna, however, is really fun to watch. I like her game selection. EN needs game exclusivity. I have no interest in watching 5 members stream persona or pokemon. Vesper has good taste in games also. Ame has bad taste in games usually and doesn't seem to finish them. I enjoyed her elden ring arc though. I don't think Mumei likes to game at all. Why was she hired? I can't stomach much of Kronii or Kiara.

>>39494267
It's pathetic that my 1 view streamer completes more games and streams more than holo's.

>>39449277
>So whats next for HoloEN?

Doing the same as they are doing. HoloEN are the biggest in the EN market, so why change what they are doing?

naked dogeza

>>39449277
gura back at 200%, myth going on retreat together to heal, en3 full of girls who learned from all mistakes done, starsen 2 doing amazingly well making the complete separation of the box. Or, gura still depressed, ina leave, en3 never exists, starsen 2 still a flop.

>28 NijiEn streams scheduled for today
>2 HoloEn streams scheduled for today.
There's just no saving it at this point.

>>39506024
So you're going to watch all 28 NijiEN streams right?

>>39506165
>missing the point this fucking hard

This thread has been a very interesting read with relatively low shit flinging, I'm still holding out hope for things to go back to normal when Ina and Gura return even though it's probably foolish

>>39506024
For what it's worth, even at full strength, holoen has never taken advantage of the weekends. A few of them dump their member streams on it, but that's pretty much it.

>>39492807
>killing
EN lazyfucks commited suicide by being lazy

>>39506544
That was always crazy to me. Haachama had better weekend coverage before she was divorced from EN

>>39506327
Even if things go back to normal HoloEN will only get it's excitement back when EN3 drops, or if any of them thinks of a branch-wide project but I doubt this will ever happen under current circumstances. Essentially 2022 was a completely wasted year for the EN side with Sana's graduation and most of the roster losing their motivation, so 2023 will need to be a big year in all possible ways otherwise who knows how intact HoloEN will look in exactly a year.

>>39449277
You got T3MPUS, the 3rd gen HoloEN, now get ready for T4MPON, the HoloEN 4th gen with 6 males. After that maybe a mixed gen since the numbers of male and female are finally balanced.

Haachama has all but confirmed we're getting EN3 early january
Hope competition makes things better

>>39506906
I'm in the "management is fucking retarded" camp and I definitely agree on that side they definitely dropped the ball in so many ways, I'm personally still excited about streams and shit from my oshis but who the fuck knows if I'm the minority

>>39506906
Thank God for Faumei keeping EN afloat during this ebb

>>39449277
>So whats next for HoloEN? Going into 2023, the EN branch is at a crossroads where they either: continue to be stagnant, fade into obscurity, or try to be relevant again. But where everything currently sits, its likely they will either continue to stagnate or fade into obscurity.
https://twitter.com/zutomayo/status/1603417731063169025
those that keep doing stuff will be fine

>>39507103
Only coverdrones still defend management at this point. They already dropped the ball massively with how long they took to debut CouncilRyS (especially IRyS, who's pretty much their main punching bag), but 2022 was something else entirely. I should be hopeful for 2023 but them reminding about the open auditions for HoloSTARS EN twice in 5 months makes you wonder if they're really going to do a 2022-2 and only debut StarsEN2. HoloExpo is in 3 months and it's the most realistic bet for any positive news about it, but if we don't hear a single words about EN3 there things will get absurdly ugly.

>>39507151
It's a shame those two are mostly focused on solo content and aren't the planner kind. Only having Watson and, to a lesser extent, Kiara to be the leaders for bigger projects makes things harder because the former doesn't do much creative stuff outside of VR, and that has already run it's course, and the latter always has problems juggling timezones, available members and her own personality because she really isn't fit to be THE leader and is more suited to be a helping figure à la Subaru being the handyman from HoloJP.

>>39502962
The difference between indies and HoloENs when it comes to passion for video games is astounding. I will never understand why they hired so many girls who don't give a shit about video games when their job mostly consists of video game streams.

>>39507899
I think drawing was a consideration for those that excelled in that, but then they just decided to focus on their art outside of HL and make their streaming secondary.

>>39507841
I atill get irrationally angry thinking about how they mess something up with IRyS at every single opportunity, I just don't understand, it's like she pissed off someone high up

>>39506327
Viewer-wise I really don't think things will go back. A lot of people branched out to other corpos or indies because of the lack of streams and I don't think they are willing to go back.

>>39502962
1 to 2 views are usually not trying to hit it big when it comes to the numbers game. They just stream what they like.
People go to holo's for the "idol" experience, but they're not even getting that "idol" and "girlfriend" experience because they only do those sorts of things every once in the while.
Most of the time they play video games.
Bad video games.
The inverse is those retarded big streamers who fell into the trap of playing shitty western """AAA""" f2p microtransaction multiplayer only games.

>>39494267
They can't even do FOTM right. Everyone and their grandma is doing Dorf Fort these days so where are the Holo Dorf Fort streams.

>>39507995
That was only Sana, who pretty much on day 1 said she wouldn't do art streams when her main skill was fucking drawing. Ina slowed down the frequency of art streams but she did a lot in her first year and a half, and even Mori whose art was mostly a seconday thing did more art streams than Sana. It's honestly baffling why Cover ever hired her in the first place without asking what the fuck she wanted to do on Hololive. Nepohiring isn't always a bad thing, especially when you look at the nepohires on HoloJP, but in their case all of them were content creators/streamers in the past while Sana barely ever streamed and mostly talked about chink gachas, so I wonder if Cover genuinely believed they could have another Ina with her.

>>39508027
IRyS' everything was mismanaged to hell and I don't know why. She took 7 months to debut, which is I believe the longest time between the auditions call and debut (not counting open auditions here), is forced to sing songs written by ESL people and I think to this day Cover wasn't able to branch out, doesn't know the release schedule of her songs which constantly drop when she's on break, MVs always come out months after the song has already released, the entire redesign drama. It's like her whole project was made to fail.

>obscurity
lol the wishcasting is insane with you retards. merry christmas enjoy your buko juice.

>>39508596
> IRyS' everything was mismanaged to hell
thanks for reminding me of the only things that makes me angry in this world, I'm going to get some air

>>39508526
Vesper is playing it

>>39507841
>It's a shame those two are mostly focused on solo content and aren't the planner kind. Only having Watson and, to a lesser extent, Kiara to be the leaders for bigger projects

I think this year's holoween was a test run to see if someone in council could do some planning (with support from ame at that time). Same with the Ame Mumei aquarium date now that i think about it.

>>39476887
The fact that the girls can refuse to stream and continue to collect a fat paycheck is the problem, not Collabs you dumb ESL fuck

>>39508027
project hope is definitely fucked
>model was dogshit
>JAPANESE songs for an "ENGLISH VSINGER"
>girl's main thing is "cutesy" type of singing (name one EN artist that does this)
among the other things already listed here>>>>39508596

girl got hired because it was convenient
>million views on an old cover (some say because of a youtube bug)
>fluent in english and japanese
>is presumably hafu
>is living in japan

>>39463862
all true

>>39509239
I'm an ivy league educated native English speaker you whore.

>>39508697
I feel you, bro. Really hoping things turn around for her in 2023, especially with her finally getting the damn 3D model and most likely doing a 3D live for her anniversary. It won't make all the bullshit she suffered disappear but at least she'll finally have her time to shine.

>>39509307
>is living in japan
And that's currently worth fuck all other than the JP collabs because she can't even use the goddamn home turf advantage for 3D streams because of the redesign drama. The entire branch is poisoned with some of the most incompetent staff members of Hololive and if it wasn't for Mel's old manager they would be worst ones the agency ever had. Even Gen 5's early managers are better because they were low tier enough to be replaced after the members complained, while the HoloEN girls might get suspended if they ask for a new manager.

>>39449277
White women or western women in general don't have the mental capacities to commit to something that requires a minimum of reliability.
The big outlier here being Kiara (germans and austrians are a autistic race of workaholics that place great emphasis on loyality) bae (azn genes still stronger than western socialization).
And then you have hybrid asian-american korean creatures like ina who fake illness to farm sympathy and then go on a japan vacation with her simp ATM money (nothing wrong about that, but why lie about it? lol)

>>39509487
If thats true then affirmative action has truly destroyed any chance our education system had, now prepare your anus for when Gura either collabs with a M*le or graduates once she gets out of rehab

>>39466182
I don’t want to have a romantic relationship with the chuubas I watch but I will not watch them with males on stream. I know it’s a foreign concept to false flagging roasties and castrated faggots. It’s crazy, I know, but I also don’t care, and I will block anyone in EN3 that decides to do homo collabs.

>>39466397
It’s true, the well is poisoned, I will never be as excited or as wanting for EN3 as I was before Tempus. Faggots ruined the excitement for the branch, simple as.

>>39510713
The girls dont stream.

>>39463558
jp employees are willing to do more for less.

westerners simply don't like to work, even if it's something relatively tolerable. they're honestly better off hiring japanese girls that know how to speak english

>>39492807
Cover wasted an entire year for these fags LOOOOOOOOOOOOL. Pathetic

>>39510925
The girls don’t stream, and the Tempus collabs made people wake up to that fact, since “at least they don’t collab with males” was the only thing keeping a lot of people from leaving. Hell, just one Tempus collab with each of the male collabers and then a “Cool, now here’s my Tempus-free schedule” until, like, September, would have been fine.
Instead you had the shitstorm that went down which exposed that A.) they *really* don’t stream; B.) they like Tempus more than their own branchmates; and finally C.) they don’t understand why the audience doesn’t like seeing that (ie why practically admitting that you prefer collabing with the males than the other girls goes down so badly).
So yeah, Tempus was the catalyst, but it sure as fuck wasn’t their fault.

>>39509708
I'm white and I'm not a chumbud but I welcome them as allies against your kind.

>>39511188
Hope he sees this

>>39449277
Hey vt thank for letting us stay for so long, and at no cost too. You guys are so nice.

>>39511315
Don’t thank vt. Thank Yagoo for being a closeted homosexual willing to subsidize the faggots.

No one in hololive en plays video games because white women don't play video games. Only asians and tomboys.
Why do you think the og branch is more active? Because a majority of them are already neets.

>>39511689
>tomboys
OK so there are very few based women in the world, get a ccterf

MY GIRLS DON'T WANT TO WORK
IT'S MY BIRTHDAY
AND MY GIRLS DON'T WANT TO MAKE ME RICH

A lot of the problems boil down to incompetent management, but some of issues are due to the talents they hired...which again is ultimately a management issue
JP corps are notoriously bad at foreign affairs, and Cover is no exception to this
They usually try to have everything conform or otherwise be convenient for them, which is pretty evident given:
- all the communication breakdowns, delays, and shit meeting times caused by all upper management centralized in JP
- prioritizing the hiring of bilinguals and aussies and otherwise just not understanding who would be a good EN hire
- trying to follow the JP playbook for EN but constantly faltering since it would never work and instead finding subpar alternatives (omega, 3D lives, conventions)
I do have to admit that the IRyS situation is just inexplicable - there's no intrinsic reason it should be this bad except pure incompetence or the equivalent of an apathetic subcontractor

>>39495967
>without access to the chinese market
Is it actually not a meme that you need chink fujos for male vtubers to work?

>>39511045
Tempus also exposed the people who were begging for EN3 as people who gave up on Myth and Council and were too afraid to admit that until only recently.
Who would have thought all of this would have happened for just the simple fact that they're not streaming.

>>39512680
Considering how all of the really popular male vtubers all have big fanbases there I think there's at least some truth to that. Tempus is doing relatively fine if your only point of comparison is StarsJP, but even then they'll never reach the same heights Luxiem or any of the big male vtubers from NijiJP reached.

>>39513147
Exposed what? That people want a new gen to make things more exciting for the branch? Why the fuck every single discussion about it goes back to this same talking point when I've never seen anyone saying this same retarded bullshit for HoloJP? You really think HoloEN is perfectly fine with only 10 members when a third is on the other side of the globe and one of the is geographically isolated, most have the generic vtuber-core game tastes and some barely finish the games they start and only 3-ish have a consistent music release schedule but there's little variety in what kind of genres they sing? Also why jerking of to Tempus and wanting a StarsEN2 is fine when an EN3 isn't? Hypocrisy for me but not for thee?

>>39513757
Translation: The girls don't stream.

>>39449277
Hopefully, some actual streams and consistent schedules.
Probably, nothing, just a gentle slide to irrelevance.

>>39514583
Well, yeah, but people have been asking for EN3 way before we found ourselves in this slump. By mid 2022 people were already waiting for EN, expecting them to debut in July since Council also debuted a month before Myth's anniversary. It only intensified after Tempus because it's not just unicorns who don't want to watch male vtubers, and HoloLIVE was always the main player for HoloLIVE Production so it's not weird that people thought HoloEN would get a new gen this year after literally all other branches got one in the last few months.

Is fucking 9.30 pm here in eu, NO ONE is streaming
Next stream is fucking KAELA in 40 min, then fucking homocraft at midnight

>>39517726
It's Christmas dude. The only people you can depend on are /vt/.

Honestly the future is not looking bright for Hololive English.
They are understaffed and put all their eggs on the male basked and it didn't pay off.
Their numbers are low, they debuffed the girls and fractured their audience.
And Cover is already hiring for their next gen.
EN staff and resources and time that would have been spent getting GEN3 was wasted on the male gens instead.
Ironically Cover is now suffering from its own success, the girls are outright refusing to stream because they don't have to. They already have everything they want. The numbers, the fans, the views, the money.
NijEN is still millions of subs and many thousand viewers behind HoloEN but they've managed to carve themselves a space as the second big company and their Hololive's rival.
It wouldn't take much for them to catch up, it could happen more quickly than people think. One good day, one viral event, or just HoloEN's audience reaching a breaking point.
One of the interesting side effects from having males around HoloEN is that it loses its edge over Nijisanji.
If Tempus had not debuted NijiEN would NEVER catch up to HoloEN because NijiEN has the male debuff.
Most people just want girls, so even if HoloEN sucks and stops streaming their fans won't go to NijiEN.
But what happens if HoloEN has the same debuff? Suddenly the playing field is even.
What stops HoloEN fans from looking into NijiEN if they both have guys?
HoloEN fans have been very patient but even that patience will have its limit. If the girls keep being stagnant and inactive they could lead people to try other stuff.
HoloEN fans are casuals, they will not suddenly go searching for small corpo or indies for a similar experience to HoloEN, but they will go to the closest competition.

HoloEN absolutely needs gen 3, the sooner the better, it needs it right now. It needs to offer its fans something to watch before they start trying out the competition.
Honestly it doesn't matter who they hire, HoloEN fans have no standards they will watch anything.
The only thing that matters is that Cover has a streaming clause that forces them to stream consistently.

>>39517726
Sucks to have this problem. I'm watching an indie right now.

>>39480826

>I Love a Whore!

Fixed

>>39518967
>HoloEN absolutely needs gen 3, the sooner the better, it needs it right now.
They needed it months ago. If HoloEN had a decent debut schedule by this point we would be either waiting for EN4 of just had their debuts. The longer they wait the more expectation will be put on the future members and the more underwhelming they'll look like because of the insurmountable amount of hype that'll be put on them, just like it happened with Council. But it looks like Cover doesn't give a shit and are more interesting in pushing for StarsEN2 than expanding what will always be the main branch, so maybe HoloEN actually needs an apocalyptic event to make the retards in charge understand how big of a mistake it was to focus so damn hard on competing against NijiEN on what's their main selling point.

>>39518967
fr fr, too bad niji doesn't have better streamers. that really hurts them.

EN could be still salvaged if there were actual events to look forward to. 3D debuts, more outfits, more group song releases, more megacollabs, more continuous series, more offcollabs, their own HoloGra, anything. The fact that Fauna's outfit reveal was the first ever since the kimonos a year ago is egregious (if you ignore the IRyS redesign).

>>39518967
>Their numbers are low, they debuffed the girls and fractured their audience.
tempus being released as brotubers that tried cannibalizing the mostly male audience that the girls already had was the dumbest decision by cover upper management. if they were released as an isolated female pandering branch that appealed to different audiences they would be fine. but they overdid it with the constant collabs right out the gates and never established an audience for themselves.

>>39520179
This is an interesting point.
I have to agree.
When they debuted I praised the "brotuber" strategy as an innovative new approach to male vtubers that carved its own niche separate from NijiEN. They weren't competing with NijiEN and instead they were tapping into a new market they had all for themselves. Good right?
But it ended up backfiring pretty bad.
Instead of competing with NijiEN for the audience watching their male vtubers, mostly women. They ended up appealing to Cover's own HoloEN audience of mostly men instead.

>>39520179
eAgh this guy is streaming a cool game but I can't post on reddit how cute he is like I can for everything the girls do.

>>39477713
Kiara was always the weakest link number-wise and she's still pulling top 1% numbers even if they aren't as big as they were before.

Amelia 'streams' by Holo standards but it's pretty pathetic compared to HoloJP/Niji/small corpo standards and 99% of the time it's 2 hours of watching her half-heartedly play a videogame while looking at the clock.

I'll grant you stream frequency and stream length aren't the be-all-end-all, but they're important enough, and HoloEN really dropped the ball. Some of these bitches have been acting like they're too good to even post a schedule for over a YEAR now, of course that was going to hurt their numbers and it was definitely going to hurt the brand. It just happened way more slowly than it would for an 'average' streamer because HoloEN's post 2020 baseline was incredibly high.

But if you think about it, that makes it even worse. All these problems were evident by late 2021 at the latest, and despite ample time to course-correct EN management did all of nothing.

>>39521837
EN doesn't fucking exist.

>>39463862
>The irony here is that Hololive mutated into Nijisanji while Nijisanji mutated into VShoujo
The sad thing is this take makes sense. HoloEN right now feels like NijiEN some months after the Luxiem/Noctyx debuts - tolerable, but if you were around for the good days you can tell that the magic is gone. And of course the current iteration of NijiEN feels like watching Vshojo orbiters in 2021, right down to the dripping disdain at having to do this nerd anime job instead of being a flesh streamer.

I guess that's just the way of things. If you don't upkeep something, it will age and decay and eventually break down.

>>39520179
Tempus destroyed their brotuber appeal when the female collabs started.
If we think about the true base psychology of Hololive vtubers, the female ones basically play into a desire for nice, calm, cute feminine company. Nobody wants their bros intruding on that.
Bros hang out with bros, playing xbox and shooting guns and golfing and shit, and you typically don't have cute girls drinking tea and singing karaoke with you while you're doing bro shit.
It's totally different worlds, different appeals, and they're mostly compartmentalized in the real world and so this "simulated" version should also have been compartmentalized. The whole debacle is a complete failure to understand the appeal of either genre of vtuber in the most retarded way.

>>39449277
Mori x Pippa collab LET'S GO

>>39463862
I wish some of HoloEN's audience moved to small corpos.
If just a fraction of them tried something else you'd see huge gains across the board for all small corpos.
But HoloEN hasn't reached the tipping point yet.
>>39522166
HoloEN has the sense of dread and uncertainty NijiEN had when Luxiem was fresh. The magic is dead and we are just left wondering how bad it can really get.
But it seems like HoloEN might have realized what a fuck up that was and course corrected a little.
It's not the genuine cute girls only experience it once was, the content it should rightfully be if it's meant to be an english version of Hololive. But it's not Nijisanji territory either.
It's still somewhere in the middle.
Some of the girls have collabed with guys, some of them haven't.
Some collabs have guys, some do not.
In Nijisanji everyone collabs with guys there are no exceptions and every collab has a guy or more involved.
And because Nijisanji's culture is more collab focused the amount of "no guy in sight" content is much less.
HoloEN can still function as a sort of broken and poorly functional imitation of HoloJP, at least for now.

But I do wonder if there will ever be a tipping point for HoloEN fans.
They all know about Nijisanji already, it's big enough for that. But they don't know about small corpos.
All it would take is one small corpo going viral and giving them the same magic HoloEN once had and they might migrate.
Right now the best positioned corpo is idol.
It consistently reaches 300-400CCV with all its members and even peaks at 1k. The first EN gen is very well rounded and the members are quite good at being vtubers.

I'd be really surprised if we don't see EN3 by March.

>>39509576
>Mel's old manager
EN manager could rape them all and i wouldn't care if that's make En more interesting.

>>39449277
more kino brotubers

>>39522428
Please no. I kind of like Pippa's streams.

>>39522464
I still drop in on EN streams, but often leave after a short while. They haven't completely lost my instinctual reaction that it might be interesting. The problem with the indies I've tried to follow is that they stream way too early. I'm not even done with work and most of them are done.

>>39523188
I went on a very deep dive in the world of indies and small corpos.
I managed to find so many good girls that at this point I have multiple decent options almost at any time of the day or night.
There are definitely peak times tho, which hurts a lot when you have so many you want to watch.

>>39449277
Just close the branch while it still has some degree of dignity.

If you place Hololive's average viewership next to the Top 54 in Nijisanji, you'll notice how frontloaded Hololive's viewership is on Pekora, Subaru, Miko and Marine.

After them, the number torpedoes until you reach 2m Calli with <2k viewers or ID members. Smaller JP members have about 2-4k. Nijisanji only has Kuzuha and Salome that can tap into 20k+ by doing nothing special, but the comoany viewership is far more consistent as you go down with many of them able to get 7-15k regularly. In other words, despite having more members, Nijisanji has more viewers to go around. Hololive's entire company is about 1/3 the size of Nijisanji but their viewership depletes before Niji gets anywhere close to their shitters.

Why is this important? Because Cover want to go public, and they want to numberfag as hard as physically possible to investors. Yet as things stand, Tempus are about to become 3-views and HoloEN have reached a critical mass of dead subs. There is only a dedicated bubble of existing fans left, meaning that an EN3/Tempus 2 can only cannibalise the viewers of existing members and that risks making basically everyone but Gura a shitter in EN.

>>39522464
>I wish some of HoloEN's audience moved to small corpos
I have. I primarily watch Phase now. I don't even understand from where this myth that HoloEN viewers don't watch other vtubers even came from, but I'm assuming it's a holdover from the era where HoloEN and Niji were starting out and people used to accuse HoloEN's fans that they aren't giving NijiEN's girls a proper chance. I was one of those people who did, and like most of them I also dropped Nijisanji when Luxiem appeared and it all went to shit. In any case, people ARE checking out indies and small corpos and watching them. But since there's a lot to choose from there's nothing visible. Out of 1k people who used to watch Ame for instance a big chunk, let's say 500 of them switch to other HoloEN members like Fauna, while the remaining 500 go out and a dozen ends up watching Shondo, a hundred or so end up in kawaii, some in Phase, others in IdolEN. Those people remained in the scene but all went to different chuubas and companies, and so they and the growth is almost undetectable. This is because we are all still thinking in terms of HoloEN and Niji's numbers where (at their best) you'd have 30k people watching a stream. Things like that aren't coming back. There will never again be a monopoly OR a duopoly, but many smaller corpos and big indies with similar numbers. But this is not a loss, but a win.

Vtubing is changing into a heterogeneous scene which will continue to develop, and every niche will be catered to. Small corpos will either stay in tune with the audience or perish, which is always good for the audience. The oddest thing about this is that it was Hololive itself which destroyed its own iron grip on the culture. Everyone was genuinely happy with what we had and they managed to destroy it by themselves. No outside force took down HoloEN.

The changes that would save HoloEN are impossible to make, like I stated in a previous post. It would include everything from completely ejecting Tempus to firing the entire EN management to disciplining the girls and buckling down on CGDCT and idols. Even if that were possible to do us, the fans (me!) would still see it as a cynical ploy. There's too much bad blood, to repeat myself. But it's true that girls who stuck to their guns have a future with or without Hololive, and they benefited from all this if not by numbers then by reputation.

>>39523967
Average small corpo girls still hover between 100 to 300 viewers.
I try to check many of them periodically to get a feel for how it's going and the numbers aren't really going fast.
Even new gens debut and peak at some number and more or less find some stable level and stick to it.
I think the only legit case of someone sky rocketing up was Pippa.

>>39522464
The problem was never some of them collabing with the Stars, HoloJP has members that do it once in a while and it's completely fine and doesn't interfere with the core appeal of Hololive. The actual issue was how hard management and maybe some of the girls pushed for the whole HoloPRO EN thing. Their collab ban ended a week earlier than normal for no reason other than having them collab with EN and ID as early as possible, with both their Stars senpai and the head of the JP branch saying they weren't even informed about the existence of StarsEN, and for 2 months every week had at least one big co-ed collab, which is more than HoloJP has in almost a whole year. It was like the EN management wanted to avoid the same mistakes that were done with the original Holostars, which is fair, but instead they went the complete opposite direction trying to make HoloEN a Nijisanji-lite group without realizing that the majority of the audience wasn't interested in. And this whole event created a schism in HoloEN that while it might not exist for the girls it's extremely present within the vocal parts of the fanbase and it didn't even manage to put Tempus on par with the girls when they're struggling to get 4k viewers on a 4-man collab. Maybe management saw this and this is why we haven't seen any co-ed collab in a while, but who knows what actually happened behind the scenes.

>>39523923
Even if there's a big chance of cannibalization not debuting an EN3 will only make the branch rot away faster. New blood is the only consistent way to bring the attention of new people because it's always a big event. Lot's of people will come to watch them and see what kind of content they'll make, and there's always the chance of non-viewers to stay and grow the overall audience. It's what happened with HoloJP, especially after Gens 3 and 4, and it's a bet that EN desperately needs to make because other than new girls the other way are big events like >>39520163 talked about, but even those are a huge question mark considering how much difficulty the members have to organize big events like the Sportsfes and how management doesn't seem that interested in pushing for 3D related stuff.

>>39523923
>There is only a dedicated bubble of existing fans left, meaning that an EN3/Tempus 2 can only cannibalise the viewers of existing members and that risks making basically everyone but Gura a shitter in EN.
this always happens and is natural. it doesn't mean there's anything wrong inherently with later branches or gens or waves or whatever the fuck you want to call them. follow up members never do as well as the previous.

no one in council ever made it close to myth
no one in nijisanji made it close to their previous
the ones who benefit most are the first ones. that's Myth for english speaking girls and Luxiem for english speaking boys. everyone else is a follow up gen to those two. which is why no generation will ever come close to Myth or Luxiem numbers. that's not a bad thing that's just fact.

>>39524402
Collabing with guys at all, even once, was always gonna be a problem.
But problems come in all shapes and sizes.
I agree with what you say tho. The way it was handled was horrible, they just did so many collabs in such a short amount of time that it made it seem like that was the new norm, like eventually all streams would be like that.
The hard push for HOLOPRO ENGLISH UNITY just reinforced that notion and made the fears that it was gonna become a NijiEN worse. Some girls lashing out against their fans also made it worse.
Even right now I actually wonder how things will evolve. Right now HoloEN is basically dead, everyone is on a break. But what will happen when those breaks are over?
Will we get another month of nonstop Star collabs every week?
Will the rest of the girls who never collabed with them join those streams?
We'll just have to see.
Cover is definitely aware of the backlash tho. I tweeted at HoloProEN something tame along the lines of "no thanks, I'll skip this, I don't watch HoloEN for male collabs" and they actually blocked me.
They had the announcement to damage control Kronii's zig zagging over the issue.
In a way all this time must be giving Cover some good numbers. They should be able to see how the EN STARS perform when the girls aren't even streaming, they have all the audience to themselves.
They already pushed them as hard as they could to get people to watch them.
I hope they look at the situation and realize that promoting the guys by making them collab with the girls isn't gonna lead to any better results and it made them lose some of the girl's support and just be done with that strategy.
Let the guys do their own thing and keep them separate from the girls.
The japanese approach is proven to work, they can interact but it's not something they do often.

>>39524402
There is still room for growth for Hololive in the JP market, as their niche is much less normie-centric.

The same isn't true for EN. In the west, it is literally impossible to be a V-Tuber fan and not at least be aware of Hololive's existence, and most have already made their decision on the content they provide at a fundamental level. The boom is over, and the new V-Tuber fans now have more gateways than just Myth to settle into. Cover have quite literally run out of westerners to mass appeal to, which has dire consequences on long-term growth. It doesn't help that Hololive's niche of CGDCT just can't appeal to as many people as the more normie approaches of Niji and Vshojo regardless of what streaming environment people think is better.

>>39449277
reclining branch
not only they get mogged by nijiEN and vshitjoke but they also get mogged by small corps and indies nowadays

>>39525057
>Cover have quite literally run out of westerners to mass appeal to
that's because cover doesn't have an audience they want to appeal to. in japan they're idols. even the jp stars perform like idols. in the west they just play games and that's it. the novelty of a cute anime girl playing games is over and now they're realizing they never had a long term plan for growth.

at least with nijisanji their hiring practice pits their livers against one another. since the company won't support them if they want to grow they have to put in effort or risk dropping to mid 3views like most of iluna and end up making less than minimum wage.

>>39524878
I don't think any of the girls who are yet to collab with Tempus will do it anytime soon. Even Kiara who interacts once in a while with them on twitter went 2 whole years barely even mentioning StarsJP, and she is herself an idolfag so she knows how dumb the decision could be to do it without many stipulations so it won't completely backfire on her. Otherwise who knows what will happen in the future for the side who collabed with them. Funnily enough Rrat, who was supposed to be the big pro-unity member, didn't actually spam collabs with them like Mori and Kronii did, so even she knew that pushing for HoloPro unity wasn't the best idea.

>>39525057
HoloEN still has the most amount of viewers overall when compared to those agencies, and you have an extremely fatalistic view of their current situation. There's many niches that are yet to be filed by any corpo, big or small, or even indies, and we're seeing an incline of the small agencies in recent times, which could come from disgruntled former HoloEN viewers but we can't say that for sure. Also the JP market is limited to people who know Japanese, and even if those retards saying that it was a dead market 2 years ago when Myth was at it's highest were almost completely wrong back then there was a kernel of truth in what they were saying considering the limited scope the language has, while HoloEN has the entire western world since English is pretty much the second language of all non-native English countries. What >>39525684 said is right because since the beginning Cover treated HoloEN more like streamers than idols, which completely backfired because the JP idols are more dedicated to both streaming and idol-shit when the EN streamers barely even manage just streaming, and the little support Cover and the EN staff gives to the girls who want to pursue the idol path only makes things worse. EN3 should go back to their routes and they should go for girls who actually want to be idols, especially if they're proficient with music and want to dedicate themselves to it, and also go for more weirder/unusual picks than doing a three-peat of Americans/Asian-Canadians/Asian-Aussies. They should even drop the autism they have with the branch and call Myth and Council EN1 and 2, just to signal a complete change in how they'll treat HoloEN.

Why did sana quit

>>39530265
1-Not passionate enough about streaming
2-too busy with her real job
3-health issues made streaming too much trouble to be worth it

>>39530265
Unironically she just didn’t enjoy being a vtuber.

>>39530265
liked the title, just not the work that went with it.

>>39530265
Didn't like the job if she couldn't play Genshin

>>39523967
>The oddest thing about this is that it was Hololive itself which destroyed its own iron grip on the culture
More like HololiveEN, but i get your point, it's one of the saddest things I've seen in my life, so much potential going to waste and as much as I'd like to blame mori of all people for it, it was actually the entirety of the branch's fault.
Gura
>Ghosting to the max, way too shy to ask for collabs which made her ghost her ''friends'' until they stopped caring to ask her for shit
Ina
>Overworked herself to death and was a passive agressive bitch behind the scenes
Ame
>Even before tempiss she had some attitude towards her fans that made her overall toxic rather than the ''gaming'' toxic
Kiara
>Given her record, she overdid it in the beginning showing her ME ME ME, knowing how this was her last chance at life and at idol career she grasped the oppotunity way too much which landed her in the bottom on her gen and constant numberfagging (now she's pretty based)
Mori
>Hated idols, took the spot from Milkyqueen, ungrateful to her senpais who were constantly bullied in the beginnings, only giving a shit when it was about ecelebs, not caring about genmates unless it was for her own benefit.
On paper these were the perfect candidates, shamefully most of them refused to grow up as a person and ended up killing themselves and by subsequent, HoloEN.

>>39449277
Fall 2020 is never coming back and the glory days for HoloEN are over.
However, EN3 can breathe some life back into the branch if they do a few things.
>hire a set of five talented girls that truly know Hololive and are ready to work
>complete and indefinite moratorium on collabing with Holostars English
>girls must be committed to streaming at least five times a week for the first three months
>have the Myth superstars hype them up at opportune times, such as 3D performances
Other things such as being good at games and knowing Japanese would be nice, but the most important thing for EN3 is that they need to STREAM. HoloEN can get back some of the lost mindshare by just streaming again, and EN3 can help with that. Even if Myth wants to keep taking it easy, they can at least promote the EN3 girls whenever possible, so that their audience knows to watch em during Myth (or Council) downtime.

>>39533478
This is the real recipe for success and for HoloEN to reclaim its soul.
I wish someone like you was working as manager but given the state of things something like this feels very unlikely, not even something close.
They'd need to pull a hard 180 on the current direction they've had. It's not impossible but someone from Japan maybe even Yagoo himself or an investor would need to put their feet down and really force something like this.

>>39507103
this, instead of new talents they need to find better managers

>>39449277
The boys
>Fight for every single perm and collab
>Talk with each other on and off stream
>Hold no secrets to their fandom
>Enjoy each others company
The Girls
>Basically ask someone else to get perms and give up immediately if it doesn't go their way
>Seldom talk to each other outside streaming hours (excluding Ame and Ina who are/were tech support)
>Literally lie to their fans every chance they get
>Seemingly have factions/camps about which clique they are a part of

Future's looking bright with the starlight, while myths are put to rest

>males are the problem.
lmao get a girlfriend.
The real problem runs deeper than just le idol purity bullshit, westerners are not into the idol culture as you may think. Stop with those retarded arguments.

They can get the most talented girls in the west for EN3 but if EN management continues to move at a glacial pace and simply not care about either supporting the idol side of the girls or holive in general, the girls will eventually burn themselves out having to fight tooth and nail for every good idea they come up with to be realized.
And while you're fighting the food chain your co-workers are just making money by doing nothing or actively hate the job, who wants to stay at a workplace like that?

>>39534567
>Seemingly have factions/camps about which clique they are a part of
It's funny how NijiEN despite their acceleration has less of this compared to holoEN, despite /vt/ constant wishing for the opposite

>>39534567

That reminds me of an anedcote that Gura said little before she started to tune out (so, on the run to Council debut).

The big thing that Gura did for numbers besides karaoke was pushing for new games, even if they are indie games that she only plays for a couple of streams, it kept her content fresh. As a response, management talked to Council, IN FRONT OF HER, "don't be like Gura and push for so many permissions, is too much of a job for us".

Motherfucker your fucking job is to get permissions. That was a 100% passive-aggresive power move to show Gura that even if she's on top, she has to play ball.

After that, she started to give less and less of a shit because why bother. She's #1 after the Kizuna Ai mess and there's no point to push against management, that can and will fuck over a talent to show dominance. No wonder Vesper told them to fuck themselves, even if just blowing up was a poor move on hindsight.

On the rest of Myth, if I had to bet on a first graduation, my bet was always Ina, for the same reasons that Sana left: Having to pick between Hololive and her job, specially with the tension of having to work for Social Credit gacha companies as a Hololive talent.

Mori, despite everything, negotiated with Cover: She gives them albums (specially an album in a year after debut, which had almost all of the talent admitting that they couldn't do that) and puts her dues and, in exchange, she can clout chase on Twitch on her alt account all she wants.

Kiara puts all her chips on Hololive so she's not leaving period.

Ame is the same cycle over and over. Push hard, burn out, break, repeat. Though she's my less favorite Holo, I get bored watching FPS streams, so not sure how accurate is that.

>>39535708
Thanks, you just made me hate Cover's english branch management even more. I didn't think it could be possible but that shit they did to Gura made a difference.

>>39535708
>don't be like Gura and push for so many permissions
i almost forgot about this, it was so long ago, when holoEN was still relevant
i guess it all brings us to the same conclusion that 90% of holofans know, management sucks

>>39535919
Don't forget EN's perms guy just disappeared for a month at one point this year

Give me EN3/EN4/whatever the fuck Yagoo. I need more cute girls to make me feel things

>>39535708
Holy fuck, no fucking wonder she admitted that she used Kaela VODs as permission approvals recently. Imagine having to depend on other branch's management to diversify her game choices because her own branch can't be bothered to do that

>>39536114
There are many cute girls for you outside Hololive.

>>39536040
>NijiEN's management told Lazulight and Obsydia girls if they could get something in writing from a dev/upper management person from said game, regardless of platform, they'd consider it a green-light
>Selen got no less than 5 perms for herself that week, her manager was then able to push for more upper tier company perms
It's crazy what a difference competent management can be to the girls' well being

>>39535708
I unironically believe that when Ina graduates, Gura and Ame will follow soon after. The group is being held by duct tape at this point and everyone is just looking at each other wondering who's gonna be the first to stand up and leave

>>39536237
Yuko and Filian are ravenous for the Gura ex-fanbase

>>39535708
Bullshit its hard. Literally no one besides other jap companies even care. If you email a western dev they would reply "No shit its fine its literally free advertising dumbass" if they could

>>39536237
But, and you niggas are gonna laugh at me for this, Hololive picks the best quality girls. No one in Nijisanji/Vshojo/indies/Phase/whatever the fuck is as good as any of the HoloEN girls. Besides maybe Selen and Pomu, but they're honestly just errors and should have made it into Hololive imo.

>>39492807
I don't think I'll ever understand the commitment these four got and yet they got ugly models and rigging. Just makes no fucking sense to me.

>>39536383
I actually think we're at the point where all of Myth is in for the long haul. If anyone in Myth was gonna graduate it would have already happened. They're closer than they've ever been, outside of Gura who just needs to recalibrate.

But people want drama so everyone acts like they all hate each other. They are past the growing pains at this point.

>>39492807
>Spanish
Ni el español superior como de España, pero el Español de perros, en Sur America

>>39536412
This is blind fanboyism. They are no less hit or miss than anyone else

>>39535708
I actually remember listening to this during the stream she talked about it. It's been a long time since I heard it, but you just reminded me of it. I still remember questioning what the fuck was even wrong with the management that they took issues with their #1 most subscribed talent asking for some fucking game permissions. The most nightmarish part about working with Cover seems to always be the management.

How the fuck is it so hard to message a developer or publisher asking for permissions to stream a game? Why is that so difficult for the Japanese?

>>39536624
Reminder that Coco very clearly warned all of Hololive fandom and the other girls to watch out for management, for like.....a whole fucking month, and everyone just passed it off as her being a bitch on the way out the door

>>39536538
I don't think they hate each other, but I do think having to constantly fight the amateurish management for everything they wish to do is something they didn't expect would happen.

You just get tired at some point, even if you made friends there and enjoy streaming

>>39536412
I don't know what to say if you tell me you can look at HoloEN's cast and think "yep these are the best english speaking girls the world of vtubing has to offer".
Specially considering how their management and burnout have killed their passion at this point.

>>39535708
holy fuck

>>39534736
Here are your options, depending on where you're from:
>fuck off back to your SEA mudhut
>fuck off back to the farm, Nonna

>>39535708
It's not just that either. While Gura has complained that the fucking management isn't getting her perms for games she wants to play they also sabotaged her at every turn. Her idea for short meme videos was explicitly forbidden. Mind you, everyone is now doing those as youtube shorts. Her Shark'd animation was completely done more than a year ago but she was forbidden from releasing it because fuck you that's why. She paid for that out of her own pocket. 500k USD. Daki? She fought long and hard for that one and said it's supposed to come out, but then her health failed and who knows what will happen. My guess is it'll never come out.

These are just a few I remember offhand. EN's management didn't just fail her, they actively sabotaged her and went way, way beyond mere incompetence. Absolutely everyone working in EN's management is grossly incompetent, potentially malicious, completely out of touch and blatantly just doesn't get it. It's the worst gaggle of chucklefucks nobody has ever seen or known. All of them should've been fired long ago. The effects of their idiotic decisions demoralized the hell out of Gura.

>>39537069


>Her Shark'd animation was completely done more than a year ago but she was forbidden from releasing it because fuck you

This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJGsWORSg-4
Seriously?
How can english management be so fucking stupid.
No seriously, how?
JP management lets Marine releases her own anime videos all the time.

>>39536538
dont underestimate management skills to ruin everything... again
also, dont think that friendships are enough to ignore a shitty work environment

>>39537389
>dont underestimate management skills to ruin everything
I'm still wondering what the bargaining chip was for Management to greenlight the Niji/Holo EN collabs
40% of their pay? They had to sell sponsor chinese gacha? Unironic businessmen meetings?

>>39536412
retard fanboy. look at fucking council. management cant hire for shit, they got lucky with myth. and if you believe the rrats, coco had a say in the hires.

>>39449277
It still boggles the mind how Cover just let HoloEN fester instead of hiring actual management for them.

>>39537557
>Unironic businessmen meetings?
the mental image of a small army of hololive suits coming up to the NijiEN office comprised of like 5 people and showing entire suitcases full of contracts and lawyerspeak just so that two menhera can stream together is amusing

>>39537385
Yes, seriously. It's utterly insane. She had to FIGHT management for a WHOLE YEAR for them to allow her to release it. Nothing, absolutely nothing EN management does or has done has any sense whatsoever. Also, her 3D Live was much shorter than it was supposed to be because again, management cut content from it. We don't know what, even less why, but she said that that's what happened. The same goes for the animation. The management rrat isn't a rrat, Gura told us this shit herself.

So forget about being the biggest vtuber - think about how this must've felt on a basic human level. First you come up with an idea for short vids anticipating the trend and knowing it works from existing examples. They tell you no. Then they approve an animation, you pay a shitload of money for it, and then they go "lol no you can't show that :D" and that's on top of them not only not getting perms but shitting on you for even asking for them. While you're the biggest success in the company and the entire industry. Someone who obviously knows what she's doing. Gura got demoralized completely by all of this and now with all the health issues she's facing and an indefinite hiatus who knows how things will go. I've been membered to her for a year and a half now, and in my eyes they have failed her completely and do not deserve her. I think this Anon might be right too >>39536383 and that if one of the Myth girls goes the whole thing will rapidly fall apart.

At this point management should just commit seppuku and even that wouldn't be enough to redeem them from the sheer batshit lunacy and incompetence.

>>39537848
lol now imagine being a new fan in 2020 supporting EN and wondering where they'll go in the future. the whole thing is mindbendingly stupid and the opposite of inspiring.

>>39537557
it all started with the altare/alban collab. i guess that management wanted to expose the male branch more (due to their limited success) and tried to get some nijisanji viewers. since yagoo and jp management have a lot of influence in holostars, en management was probably forced to give in to the collab demands.
after that, i guess holoEN and holoID pressured management to have a similar treatment in regards of collabs.
holoID was literally cucked from collabing due to the EN management policy (holoID organized and scrapped collabs with nijiEN twice).
in holoEN, kiara was basically asking her fans to pressure management to allow her to collab, those moments got clipped, people got mad and wrote stuff on the subreddit and the continued doing the same thing

TLDR: management needed to shill then homos

>>39538184
Yeah it's awful.
I admit I have been making fun of Gura's "tummy hort" break but now I realize the emotional stress she must be under.
Management is downright abusive to them. Lying them, giving them approval only to take it away later.
EN management just seems like absolute cancer.
This is pretty sad, to think the biggest vtuber company is also this bad to their talents. I guess in a way small corpos really are just better after all.
At this point I don't want any of the small corpos or indies I watch to be recruited into Hololive. It's a toxic enviroment.

I think some of you have the wrong idea about how the company perceives their talents. To the fans, they’re mini celebrities, but to the company they’re just contractors hired to voice act their IP. It’s actually troublesome to management if any particular talent gets too much clout or starts making too many requests. Remember, their biggest money maker is holofes, and that went on just fine even after they fired one of their top stars. Hololive members are expendable.
The rot in management always comes from the very top, so it’s not just a case of a wayward branch. I wouldn’t be surprised if JP is intentionally sabotaging EN since the side branches aren’t supposed to outshine the main branch.

>>39538306
The NijiEN collab ban actually made a lot of sense though. In that case management did the right thing.
With HoloEN being big and NijiEN being a small newcomer with the potential to grow into a threat it never made any sense to give them free exposure to the many casual Hololive fans that would not have heard about them.

>>39538449
You sound like cover's boot licker. Imagine if they pulled that shit on Korone whenever she wanted to play a new retro game.
She would have never grown into what she is today, she wouldn't be getting amazing sponsorships everywhere.

>>39538449
>to the company they’re just contractors hired to voice act their IP
Okay, but this still translates to:
>"May I have the tools to do my job?"
>"No."
But the sad thing is it might really be the JP side is livid at EN due to their success.

>>39538184
the best part is that during this week management has probably blamed her for her lack of interest in streaming, not taking any responsability and likely telling her that if she doesnt accept her work environment and go back streaming she is going to dissapoint her fans and that will be all her fault

>>39538306
NijiEN was the one blocking the collabs, even the ID ones. And if I had to guess why, they probably didn't want to be seen as leeches. Didn't want to deal with Holo's incel fans and their "purity" ideology on what a vtuber should be. They also had Chinese fans to worry about.
Absolutely no idea what black magic Altare and Alban used to get their collab. NijiEN had no reason to allow competition to get exposure to their fanbase. This goes for Holo too, but NijiEN was the one that didn't want it.

>>39538661
>entire post putting Cover in a bad light
>yOu SoUnD lIkE a BoOt LiCkEr
SEA hours.

>>39538449
That is probably correct but it's also a completely retarded position for Cover to take. There is no IP to protect, people come to watch the talents, the care about the talents, the talents is the thing that matters the most. Like 99% of the company is its talents. If every single manager was replaced overnight, not a single hololive fan would care. If even one talent is graduated, or goes on a break, or has some health issues, or stuff like that, it's news for everyone.
You cannot replace these people like you replace voice actors. Kizuna Ai tried and failed miserably, because that's just not how the entire industry works.

>>39538449
The JP side learned to let some things go by for the good of the company/revenue, there are limits of course. but they let their talents mostly do their thing since you never know when one will strike gold.

Seems to me Yagoo (or whoever was in charge of kickstarting the EN branch) just hired some very incompetent people completely out of touch with both the idol subculture and how the internet works in this day and age to be in charge, and that person proceeded to hire incompetent people and so on, making the entire branch contaminated.

>>39538555
And yet, on the 31st Pippa (Phase) and Yuko (IdolEN) are having a collab despite them both being "competition" to each other as members of small corpos, and it's something I'm looking forward to because I like both of them. Also notice how swiftly it's happening unlike the mammoth sluggishness of Hololive.

Vtubing relies heavily on how much the personality of a chuuba appeals to you, there's no strict competition in terms of content or even quality. If you like the girl you like her and that's it. Even the company comes second to the chuuba, and it seems Hololive forgot that. I'm not watching Gura because she's in Hololive, I'm watching her because she's Gura. Collabs pose no intrinsic threat.

>>39538799
The entire post is "cover is justified in its actions, bitches should stop whining and be grateful they're not being fired for daring to ask management to do its job"

>>39538555
i was probably a good policy at the beginning. but then council flopped and nijisanjiEN got bigger. they should have scrapped the policy back then, or at least not enforce it into the ID branch since they were pulling similar numbers than nijisanjiEN before luxiem

>>39538958
>Collabs pose no intrinsic threat
tell that to management, they believe that too many game requests are bad and that talents should only make music and play minecraft

>>39538958
There's actual small corpo unity because they're all more or less stuck down there.
It's the same reason there was Nijisanji x Hololive unity in the early days of the companies. They had nothing, they were at the bottom, they had to support each other.
Pippa can go up to 8k viewers but most of her company is between 100 to 300 on their good days.
idol consistently gets 400 on everyone's streams and on their good days can get up to 800.
Pippa is much bigger than idol, but idol as a whole is bigger than Phase Connect at least at the moment. So an exchange between them makes a lot of sense, they both have something to gain from it.

>>39539059
>they believe that too many game requests are bad
i don't believe you.
source.

The Vesper suspension thing is also a clear proof that something is deeply wrong on the management side of things. The rest of their talents have never opposed the management in a meaningful way because they're all either 1)japanese 2)women 3)too young and have never had any real workplace experience. And here comes the late 30s guy who's dealt with his share of corporate bullshit in his life, and speedruns a suspension in less than 6 months because for him the incompetence was waaaay too much and he got in an argument because of it. But powertripping management would rather fuck over their talents to show dominance than actually do their fucking jobs properly. It's insane how they consider the talents as just something optional and dispensable when THEY'RE THE ONLY REASON ANYONE EVEN CARES ABOUT THE COMPANY. Just complete insanity.

>>39539131
>The Vesper suspension thing is also a clear proof that something is deeply wrong on the management side of things.
vesper said it was his fault for losing his temper. it's not a management thing.

>>39539101
Oh for fucks sake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-gTPa2dInw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-gTPa2dInw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-gTPa2dInw

>>39539176
>clickbait youtube title
>exact words used we "this is overkill" implying that Gura was overly enthusiastic and wanted to do more
nothing that she said implies that management believes that "too many game requests are bad"

>>39539175
So, the chillest guy on earth who managed to have some grip of working experience and dealing with corpos lost his shit.... what does that fucking tell you about how retarded magnagement has to be to put VESPER into YNBAW mode? fucking bootlicker

>>39539249
>the chillest guy on earth
no. he admitted in the same zatsu that he has had anger issues in the past and therapy helped him a lot.

>>39539284
And yet someone manages to makes him lose his shit after going throught fucking therappy and living a healthy life.

>>39539284
also thought he was way past it, meaning he was, until some fuckery in the management side of things made it resurface.

>>39539175
you loose your temper to something, that thing was the incompetent EN management.
he already said to who he got mad
he already had his XCOM perms "vanish" after scheduling an endurance stream
management IS the problem, vesper being bad tempered is not an excuse

>>39539233
>nothing that she said implies that management believes that "too many game requests are bad"
You either don't understand English or have some genuine disability. Because that's exactly what she's saying.

>>39449277
>almost 2023
>still watching EN trashes
even id branch is doing better than holoEN these days and they actually enjoy streaming and appreciate their fans unlike en whores

>>39539175
What else is he gonna say? Of course he lost his temper, anyone would. You either eat their shit up and bow down to the mighty management like the lowly peon you are, or you lose your temper because they're completely incompetent and retarded.
I guess he could go full scorched earth at the spot and make that his last stream ever, say that they're all retarded fucking animals who can't do their job and then graduate on the spot, but he obviously didn't want to. So you have the "sorry I lost my temper"

>>39539176
the fact that they talk about "new" management makes me think that someone gradually replaced the original staff roster with incompetent millenials from social sciences

>>39484856
they have different management if anything you're actually retarded if you believe they follow everything the girls do

>>39539175
Tempus has shown us the true depth of the managements incompetence. There are people trying to play games and they cant because of management bullshit. One of them wanted to play final fantasy games but cant because squeenix is retarded.
Calli was pretty much begging for persona for like a year.

>>39492807
looks good for Stars numbers I don't see the problem. Imagine putting them in the same pedestal as the girls that's the same as you acknowledging them fully. Fuck you faggot

>>39539131
>THEY'RE THE ONLY REASON ANYONE EVEN CARES ABOUT THE COMPANY
That's ironic coming from a holotard, when they release EN3, you faggots will all cum over it and pretend nothing ever happened

The thing about vespers situation is ultra fucked because he is pretty much one of the most engaging new EN's to ever come out in a time where engagement is needed the most.
If only the girls had as much backbone as him when it comes to putting management in their place.

>>39540039
>If only the girls had as much backbone as him when it comes to putting management in their place
They'd all get the same treatment and we'd have a full branch of suspensions.
Management doesn't care, talents are not important and disposable. The manager is the supreme being and don't you forget it.
It's just pants on head retarded situation all around.

>>39540039
Vesper has significant life experience. Same as Kiara, which is why she has so many long tangents and life stories. Calli too, somewhat, since she at least had the opportunity and guts to move halfway across the world, alone, just to make a shitty dream real and somehow lucked into Hololive. But Vesper? That is a man who has lived. Maybe not always wisely, but you don't life a life where you get stabbed twice and not have some stories. Everyone else?

>Ina: Artist hikkikomori who lived with her parents
>Gura: Some cleaning job, and of course HER, but apparently lived and earned enough to afford living away from her family?
>Ame: From what I gathered, grew up kinda broke? Other than that, no idea what she had going on in life since I don't really watch her much so feel free to let me know
>Sana: Not beating a dead horse, some other anon can hop on this one
>Mumei: "Civilization duties"/school, clearly lived a sheltered life
>Bae: School and lived with parents, too young to remember past 2000
>Kronii: Mentioned working as a Wal-Mart greeter, apparently dropped out of college
>Fauna: Only recently started watching her, but she really doesn't talk much about past work or anything, at least not to the same extent as others have

>>39540039
kiara used to speak against management or at least say a lot of stuff unfiltered, but she has tone down a lot after the first year
i doubt that none of the girls have a backbone, im sure at least someone has snapped at management, but if they suspend any holoEN that cares about her content, thats like 20% of the montly revenue gone

>girls fight with management
>management won't budge so they come up with alternative plans
>examples like ame's solo 3d planning when management refused to help

>boys fight with management
>throw a temper tantrum and get suspended for 2 weeks
aren't women supposed to be the more emotional gender?

>>39540201

Also, the girls had to learn to pick their battles for important stuff (Council lore is fucking dumb and you are not going to make them push it, fuck you) and exhaustion plays a factor that does not favor the talents, for obvious reasons.

>>39539533

Vesper tried to dance around it, but his big message was: "I know I'm right, but getting angry and yelling was letting them have power over me, and walking into a suspension only hurts my fans".

>>39536173

ID's management is so obviously better, even if is only because Reine will send guys to fuck them up if they mess up.

>>39540526
Managements job is to support their employees. If they can't do that then they're useless.

>>39540526
Difference is Girls will bitch when the meeting is over, but kick rocks and accept authority during. Vesper and males however, saw bullshit for what it is and called it out, very likely also calling his manager a fucking retard or dumbass for aforementioned stupid shit

>>39540691
>ID's management is so obviously better
they got the FIFA, AoE and NFS perms and shared them with holoEN. if holoEN is able to be a functional branch is thanks to them. the only EN exclusive perm i have seen is CIV5 (and now DRG)

>>39540952
>Managements job is to support their employees
found the anon who has never worked a job in his life. next you'll tell me HR's job is to protect the employees right? management's job is to make sure the talent doesn't get the company sued.

>>39522166
>>39463862
>>39522464


Incredibly well Articulated.

Let's really break it down though, You're voluntarily giving your time and money to E-Hoes that you stumbled upon one day through fucking Youtube and STILL come to bitch about it on forum threads and the comment sections, STILL giving even the least bit of a shit when this is pretty much a blemish of a hobby/whatever-the-fuck you still give You're time to.


If they (The Talent) wants to eat shit then let them Eat Shit.


Did you really think even for a second these are the most Stable/Functioning Bimbos of the litter pick if they Opt in for shit like this? (Streaming Jobs)

>>39510984
This was what I thought HoloEN was going to be before debut, a bunch of westernized Japanese women

>>39541062
you are thinking about supervisory management
hololive's "managers" are more like PA or secretaries

>>39541062
I work a job where our managers don't spend their time fucking around.

>>39541057
ID was the first branch to figure out unarchived English karaoke perms too

>>39538184
They don't deserve the honor of sepukku. Rope will do.

>>39541106
I'm not giving another cent to this sorry shitshow. EN management is filth they ought to fucking kill themselves.

>>39541568
meanwhile EN management was telling the talents that they would be unable to do karaoke for the "forseeable future". even reddit realized how retarded EN management was for not even trying to get perms or finding workarounds

>>39538184
This, absolutely, is the reason why Gura's streams have just... died. Not just illness, not just an inherent laziness. And definitely not the schizo rrats.

Of course she'd stop loving the job when her biggest love bomb to fans gets cockblocked by management. Daki? Blocked by management. Perms of games she actually wants to play? Blocked. Fun stream ideas that aren't just traditional gaming? Blocked.

Blocked blocked blocked blocked. I truly believe she has some actual health problem, because her lifestyle just isn't conducive to a healthy lifestyle to begin with. At least Mori works out and diets. She slept in a chocolate covered bed with broken glass on the floor. She's definitely ill. But she is also absofuckinglutely sick of management, and has had the second-most sideswipes at them after the unfiltered European chicken, especially Omega.

>>39541936
Maybe we should go ahead with flinging an incredible amount of shit at EN management through all channels after Christmas, I remember all the old complaints and they have not improved. Happy fucking New Year, assholes. I'm not sure they'll know how to react to that shit hitting management instead of talent.

>>39541106
I have never donated or membered to any member of HoloEN.
I barely even watch them anymore, I transitioned to small corpos and indies. I have dozens of girls to watch, constant streams to choose from at all times. Girls who actually read their comments, love their fans and show passion when they stream be it zatsu or singing or playing games they actually commit to it.
They have creative freedom over what they do, don't need management permissions for fun projects, stream ideas or games.
And they don't stream with males.
My comments regarding the state of HoloEN are just commentary, observation. I wish HoloEN was better because it would be nice if it could be as good as it was in its prime. But that's about it.
If HoloEN never becomes great again that won't affect me anymore, I'd consider it a shame but and a loss for the world of western vtubing but not for me.

>>39542101
Not good timing. It'll seem like a random brigade out of nowhere. Wait for some big project or other to get canned (one that's not a rrat, one that the normies will get in on after they see enough momentum). If Gura comes back but gets told her daki was cancelled or something, or that management couldn't figure out a way to get them all to Japan for their 3Ds, or just outright deny them a full and total 3D collab concert, we burn this city to the ground.

JP companies are big on appearances and Cover is supposed to be looking at going public. They need to be shown that HoloEN management is a financial liability if not dealt with. Omega's third ever tweet needs to be a public apology and resignation.

>>39542034
We're going to need to push whatever subhuman troglodyte is responsible for this out. HoloEN is done for otherwise.

>>39542301
Fair point, timing is important. But this must be done, and the filthy piece of shit managers responsible for this idiocy need to be scared out of the industry by the end of it.

>>39538184
I'll accept management seppuku if its streamed.

>>39542101
>I'm not sure they'll know how to react to that shit hitting management instead of talent.

delete posts + make talents say "its not management fault", its will not be the first time

plus, EN management has been able to build its image around specific individuals (J-chad, Jenma). only thing you will find about EN management is fanart and "funny clips" about those characters rather than any criticism.

>>39542370
>scared out of the industry
Or better, straight into NijiEN (again)

>>39542370
Would be great if we can get reddit or twitter in on this. People are pretty used to brushing off /vt/ complaints as the work of lonely incel antis starved for love and attention, but getting reddit and twitter on it, along with perfect timing, is the key to making sure management gets the message. They've fucked with our oshis for far too long and with far too little to show for it.

>>39542518
They can't censor everywhere at once.

>>39542518
Hololive managers are right there on LinkedIn

>>39542597
Pay attention to the explosion of anger from members a week or so ago. We may just need to redirect this existing force above her head, and onto the cockroach that deserves it.

>>39542597
>/vt/ complaints as the work of lonely incel antis starved for love and attention
well they aren't wrong...
>getting reddit and twitter on it
reddit is probably the better choice since it's manage by cover. twitter just gets ignored as much as /vt/

>>39542301
I like how you think.
If we can somehow organize and mobilize to get shit done we could actually make Cover move.

>>39542847
reddit has to be the NVA getting cover's attention while twitter and /vt/ are the poorly organized batshit insane war crime monkeys that are impossible to entirely stomp out at once.

>>39465345
My owl ranked 18 in hours watched I kneel.

>>39542925
The initial shitstorm regarding Gura's constant unannounced hiatuses was a pretty organic-looking members' revolt. The same energy must simply be redirected off Gura, onto the real targets, and amplified with appropriate leverage from their own fuck-ups.

>>39542655
nearly all of the cover employees in linkedin are engineers, lawyers, finance experts and yagoo. also nearly all of them are in tokio, so good luck guessing who is the en manager.
it would be easier to find cover's brach office in the US (if they even have established one yet) and then pull a kaczynski

>>39543157
Yeah, the key here is redirecting the rage towards management.
Find the clips where Gura talks about all the shit that was said in this thread. Add other similar clips of other girls talking about management's incompetence.
If we get those to go viral at the right time it could change public opinion.

>>39539059
>talents should only make music and play minecraft
But that's the problem: they don't even support the girls to do that shit. Only now we're seeing EN having any kind of support for music with some of them being part of holo*27, but even then fucking Tempus had their own branch orisong almost 2 weeks before Council had theirs a whole year after debut. EN was not meant to focus on music, they wanted them to be primarily streamers with different skillsets but then do fuck all to support that and almost go against anyone wanting to have their content more in-line with the JP branch. And with Minecraft I bet my fucking ass that if anyone asks management that they want to a Sportsfes type of event they'll be barred from do it at every possible moment because of some retarded reason.

>>39539667
What in the fuck are you even trying to say? Where did I ever imply Tempus doesn't have their own management? The fact that Cover hired new staff members and still wasn't able to debut both them and an EN3 still shows that they're stupidly incompetent.

>>39543414
Hopefully, the worst of those malicious retards really will off themselves.

Even though I gave up on HoloEN over a year ago and I have a new oshi in a small corpo, I still want HoloEN to keep doing well and succeed. HoloEN being at their best makes everyone else want to improve and match up to them. Competition always helps an industry move forward.
I don't have any beef with Nijisanjii, but I'd much rather HoloEN be in a clearly dominant position that everyone strives for, rather than this current nebulous situation where NijiEN and Vshojo vtubers are starting to become the ones that people look up to in addition to HoloEN.

>>39544297
The problem is that historically, cover is at best when it trails others rather than being a trendsetter, I don't think allowing holo to dominate EN will bring innovations the EN market deserves

>>39544484
I still remember when Obsydia and Ethyria showed up in NijiEN, and with it their massive and long batsus along with impromptu collabs
I won't say the girls in Council and Myth were trying to copy them and only them, but i will say there was a noticeable uptick in "long" collabs for Minecraft for HoloEN and alot of attempts at impromptu shit

>>39544297
The problem with looking up to Vshojo is that they're mostly generic Twitch streamers using anime avatars, with some even falling for the face reveal meme. NijiEN still lives in a limbo between that and the old, JP-inspired type of content, which isn't idol-shit mind you but a more character-oriented type of content that also has a bigger focus on music considering it's utaite roots, but lately it feels like the Twitch side is gaining more ground and a lot of the members with more musical inclinations are actually the JP ESLs because that's what influenced them to become vtubers in the first place. HoloEN biggest mistake was to abandon the idol model and go for streamers, especially when Myth had people like Mori and Gura, and now they barely have people who like to stream and only a few are dedicated to music production.

>>39545262
>people who like to stream
>dedicated to music production
Both describe Mori and Kiara. People tend to forget that Kiara releases a fuckton of music because she's in the same gen as Mori, but she's right up there when it comes to productivity. Bae's gunning for the 3rd spot but she's in college.
No, we will not talk about Irys as long as Omegay has her bound.

>>39546162
Kiara is definitely pushing for it as the idolfag that she is, but even then it's pretty much just her with Rrat trying for it but still lagging behind those two. Mori has the problem of vomiting too much in too little time which makes most people not really care for the majority of her songs, and that model is also avoided by bigger music productions like those huge mainstream stars or even bands who aren't hugely popular on the mainstream but can fill those big arenas. I don't know if it's UMJ forcing her to speed it up or it's just her thinking that putting like 70+ songs in a little over 2 years is actually a good thing. In a way Mori is kinda like Anycolor with NijiEN, too much in too little time, while most of HoloEN are like Cover, too little for way too long.