/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

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Thank you!
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>Notice: Watch out for the word "land *f“ where * is o.
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/VTWBG/ HISTORY
Anchor post for events in the /vtwbg/ canon timeline.
Reply to this post or commentate directly in the sheet suggestions for events to add to the timeline.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18-HH-xmC_qxOS3ZV0Ssxzb1mDA0xVKv31yMDLWo_pEo/edit

Anchor post for issues to be voted on next time.

>Vote Results
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>Bylaws
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CURRENT PROMPTS
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>LORE CATCHUP ANCHOR
Last thread's new lore/discussion you might have missed:

Reply to this post to be included in the next thread's lore catchup.

>>39218584
https://rentry.org/Kingdom-of-Oiseau
New /mep/ lore doc underway, it is looking good if I can say so myself as the creator.
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And here is my naval map from a naval chad to others.

bump

>>39251958
Very nice. Naval chads stay winning

>>39251958
How did you manage to get your map to look like that with both size and detail? I assume you used the interactive map but when i try to do this, i cannot get near the detail.

>>39252940
If I recall correctly, what i did was first adding the border and climate layer before cropping to what it is now. Then i painting the coastline to remove the black line. Once that is done, i multipled the pixels of either height or width by 4, set it to what i got. Once you do that, cleaning the coastline and adjusting it to 3.0 is the first thing i did after that before adding all of the other details. Use layers and be willing to make many of them. This took a couple days!

>>39253033
Sounds complicated... not sure I have the will kek to do this for warkop, but i think i need to try. thanks friend.

>>39253126
Warsuner already has one side done and I think that PP gave me what he was working on for you, so dw about it hanabro, I will get to it. Also, here was warsuners ideas
https://rentry.org/x8amx
Haven't seen you in a while, how have you been.

>>39253214
warsuner is my hero kek, he does all this shit everywhere while i sit on my hands unable to decide what to do. i love the ideas, i think i will try to type something up for the otherside too. Good to know, for the eastern side, i can just give you details and you can work it out probably. I'll try to get the basics asap for real this time. I am doing well, college kicked my ass but its done for now... hbu?

>>39253394
rather well, enjoying working on the project again. Glad to see you back, I missed you.

https://rentry.org/ipien
Ok, i have done the east side of warkop. warsuner if you are here, i think we are ready to start working on the states properly. curious to know what any of those states in the west are.

>>39251958
wan sum fug?

>>39253921
I am totally unsure about the indie part so i sort of divided into 4 parts for now. we can just remove those borders for them to show that they really aren't anything. There can be cells of kobo fags in NijiID too, but the map shouldn't be too complex. imo. Tell me about names?

>>39254640
I would recommend using the names we used last time. Dilupakan for NijiID, Kebebasan as a general descriptor for Indies. For Mika, you can choose between Lintah, Serangga, Pengkhianat, and Jalang. Since IDbros are here, and they might not like this, just go with Melatika or I am sure they can find a word that is more subtle that expresses what she is about.

as for the other states, yeah just remove the borders for the indies. City names can be anything you wish, or see. Thanks bro.

>>39244624
>And Cunt votes for /rrat/ now.
You drunk or something?

>>39224926
>https://rentry.org/ekv2ng
>The exception is the vile curse of the ash barren womb, for its effect can never be reversed for the bearers.
so, i've actually had the thought of a chuubanite "conceptual weapon of mass destruction" for a while, but since we aren't supposed to have easy access to wmds i tried to think of a way to gatekeep it. my method was to make it logistically impossible due to a variety of factors, mainly the imperfection of communication. it is perhaps a bit interesting that you showed up some time after i came up with that idea, granted, i view your methods to be crude, to the point where i don't think you could, would, or should be able or willing to do what you have described, or any variant of, even if it were made to work with our magic system. our magic system operates off of communication with the heavenly realm. the actions you take in a ritual have to be communicated as being synonymous to the effects you are intending to cause.
trying to curse a nation with death and bad luck by connecting the concept to the number 4 because some cultures have negative superstitions regarding that number is meaningless because there is nothing inherent about the number 4 that relates to death or bad luck, especially since some cultures have the opposite superstition. there are two ways of failing to communicate, either failing to sufficiently express (aka, omitting key details of) an idea, or polluting the idea by adding confusing or otherwise irrelevant information along side it. as a result, the number 4 would be a pollution of the concept you are trying to communicate, if that concept was death and misfortune. furthermore, perfect communication is impossible. even if everyone existed in a hivemind, the fact that your mind cannot perfectly communicate with you shows how futile it would be to perfectly communicate a concept over even multiple connected minds. stuttering, or stumbling to remember something, or being overwhelmed by the information your senses pick up are all a result of miscommunication in the mechanisms of the brain. misremembering something as a result of trauma or repeated recollection altering the memory is also a form of miscommunication. it's all a game of telephone.
to make an artificial glyph of a person you must create an artificial concept for every identifiable aspect of their being, from their dna to their personality, to their past, present, and future, from the smallest aspect of their being, to the wholistic view of their entire self. the more detail, the better. if they are born with an artificial glyph tattooed somewhere on their body that carries a representation of all of those things, and that person lives the rest of their life with that tattoo, then that is a way to make a very strong connection between that person, and their glyph, which would make it easier to effect them with magic. such a glyph must either be an embeded glyph that represents all of the things i already described, else it must be made synonymous with an embeded glyph that achieves the same purpose.
theoretically you can create a glyph whose meaning changes based on certain conditions. imagine an artificial glyph designed to identify the head of an organization, let's call it the "boss" glyph. let's say it was a glyph that held the entire meaning of "boss" in it, along with a region of the glyph that would allow any symbol placed inside it to represent the placeholder for the glyph as a whole, and another region of the glyph that would allow any glyph placed inside it to represent the subject of the glyph, who would be identified as "the boss", thus you have created a glyph that can be attached to an arbitrary word or symbol that you can change (the boss, the queen, the emperor, der fuher, xi jingping, winny the pooh, adsfihlbsdfgln, ligma, 1+1=5, etc. it's literally arbitrary) and a glyph that represents a person, thus making that person the subject of that symbol, and therefore that glyph. referencing "the boss" references both the person at the head of the institution, and the head of the institution as a position.
to make an artificial glyph of a nation, you have far less physical stuff to work with, and the concept is far more complicated than a single person, or even the core concept that the nation is based on. for instance, cursing /meat/ the nation with infertility is different from cursing /meat/'s concept, the life cycle, with infertility. one causes only /meat/ to suffer the consequences, and is significantly harder to define or make use of, the other causes the entire concept of life itself to suffer from the consequences, including the people who gave them the curse. that is the risk of such a wmd that operates on concepts, because it is easier to get a general idea of something that a more refined idea of it.

>>39255732
this isn't only a concern for curses, though. this same thing applies to blessings, which i actually consider to be more detrimental than the curses. with the ability to effect a single nation with a certain concept, you gain the ability to radically alter their culture. whether you use it in a vaguely negative way, or a generally positive way is ultimately irrelevant. you could bless /meat/ with high nurturing capability, rewarding them for having a higher k selected strategy than an r selected strategy, and the result would be a decrease in fertility by trying to take advantage of the blessing. carrot or stick, you are changing the way people respond to their environments, thus changing their culture, this is your intended effect with /meat/, as you yourself said you want us to rely more on hags. this is assuming you can isolate the nation from it's concept. giving out blessings and curses wantonly is a terrible idea, if you bless a group of people with perfect production, fertility, and resourcefulness on the verge of creating a hedonist's paradise, you might just end up dooming the entire nation to a total collapse like in the mouse utopia experiment.
lastly, the idea that a single person could sustain the suffering of an entire nation is a bit foolish. it takes /meat/ a handful of transubstantiations and incredibly precise timing and preparation to accomplish our deicide rituals, and that involves a single being that exists solely in the heavenly realm, where magic is far more prevalent and impactful. you would have to have hundreds of people who were made to strongly represent a given nation suffer in some way that you intend to cause the nation to suffer. also, the magic won't just happen out of nowhere. you can have a magical effect that applies to a single person be applied to a group of people if the single person was a transubstantiation of the group, but you can't have the act of applying the magical effect onto the group apply the magic effect to the person causing it because there would be no reason for that to happen. it gets even more confusing by trying to have the person suffer opposite effects, or solely negative effects that are not inherently tied to the concept they are working with.
a condensed version of the effect that is taken way out of proportion makes sense, for instance, blessing a group with an enhanced focus by transubstantiating the group and someone racked with such oppressive, overwhelming anxiety and obsessively paranoid schizophrenia that they are practically losing their mind with ocd makes sense. the effect is made more moderate due to the weakening effect between the transubstantiation and the ones being effected, but it's ultimately the exact same effect, therefore it is synonymous with the result. alternatively, granting fertility to a group of people by causing someone to go through a crippling instance of forced/accelerated evolution/mutation also makes sense. the effect has to be synonymous with the magic it creates. the way you express the concept, especially in regards to "magic rocks" makes it seem like you don't quite know enough about our system to make it functional.
for a /hag/ writer, you seem to be as innocent as a preschooler who stumbled upon a loaded gun, or in this instance, a weapon of mass destruction. it would be incredibly cute if it weren't so incredibly concerning. i'll admit that i am a bit biased. ignoring the fact that you arbitrarily said the curse on /meat/ was permanent, clearly trying to make the effect of your curse less inconsequential given how easily we could otherwise counter the effects, you put it on us over a misunderstanding that happened from a purely meta perspective. in lore, this would be seen as being entirely unprovoked. you also apparently have about as much knowledge about how /meat/ as a culture operates as you do with chuubanite as a system. i suggested you look it up before you try to solidify it as lore, but you are going ahead and making lore off of it, solidifying it as canon, and for some reason that i cannot fathom, nobody else is saying anything about it at all.
with that said, i am fine with you having an unprovoked bias against /meat/ that stems from a misunderstanding, what i am not fine with is you being able to bless and curse other nations so easily in a way that doesn't make sense with our magic system. if it was just /meat/, and if you went through a lot more to actually achieve that effect, and if it worked according to the magic system, that would still be concerning as a wmd, but being able to bless 3 other nations with different blessings at the same time as permanently cursing us, operating with the same geographical star-shaped glyph (which would be meaningless from the perspective of the heavenly realm since there isn't even an inherent connection between that symbol and a star, let alone anything else involving the occult) is incredibly overpowered.

>>39255768
some nations have trump-card wmds that are only used for defense, you have an entire magic system that can singlehandedly take over the core concepts of multiple nations, bending them entirely to your will. that just won't work in this setting. i have tried multiple times to offer you the ability to discuss ways to make your system more fitting with this setting, yet you seem to repeatedly misunderstand or ignore my offers. you didn't even respond when me and the other /meat/heads were talking about what caused you to respond the way you did, and you clearly haven't done much research on our lore, either for /meat/ or chuubanite in general despite us suggesting you do that a few times. i bet you'll gloss over this comment, too, if you even read or notice it at all, and i know if i ask someone else to simplify it for me, they'll lose a bunch of information in translation, but that's easier to deal with than starting over from scratch. let's talk this out and try to find a way to make your vision of your nation a reality, and also, lets talk things out between our nations so that you don't have to try to harm us with curses. we can all get what we want out of this if we communicate with each other, though i recommend avoiding the whole curse/blessing wmd stuff entirely, or at least making it an extremely niche, rarely used trump card that can only be used on one nation at a time, and that requires a larger, and continuous supply of more crippling self-sacrificing, and a more perfect form of communication to establish it.

>>39255768
Hold on there, buddy. He was still a newfag at the time. It's not lawful to punish someone who have not yet understand the ropes.

>>39256106
i wasn't advocating any form of punishment, and i apologize if that's how i came across. i want to correct him on a few things though, hence the long response. some of the ideas he has been talking about have some problems, and i am somewhat annoyed that nobody else has even tried to express them thus far. he isn't going to figure these things out if we don't tell him.

>>39256212
No worries. You have your ideas. I'll try to explain it easier.

Why do I have a feeling this ain't gonna go well...

>>39256514
Just dont do anything stupid.
Remember what Founder said, we're all autistic here. 90% of our shitstorms are caused by miscommunication.
PG doesnt hate /hag/ anon. He's just blunt about pointing mistakes.

>>39256258
ty very much. idk when he is around, and it seems he is most active when i am away, so i haven't had much time to properly get into a conversation with him about any of this. it also hurts that he said he doesn't trust screw heads because he mistook the lunato rep as part of the core /meat/ cabal, yet he wasn't around to see us discuss what happened, what was meant, and what apparently was interpreted. the magic system part of it is more difficult, though. he spent so much effort with how his magic works, but it fundamentally doesn't jive well with our magic system, or the restraints we've applied to our world building. if all it took was what was in the rentry to bless or curse an entire nation to the specifications of what they said, then there is no reason they, or someone else, wouldn't abuse that power to take over every nation on the planet. it would be too easy to gain control with it, but it would be even easier to condemn the whole planet into total armageddon if someone gets their hands on it without proper knowledge of how things work, hence the preschooler with a loaded gun analogy. unintended consequences are scary sometimes.
>>39256514
unfortunately that's how it always goes when i am involved, which is why i have tried to distill my messages and avoid too much confrontation for a while, but they weren't getting it no matter how much i tried, so i felt i had to go into more detail about it. there is always a very real possibility of misunderstandings and unnecessary problems when it involves me because i suck at articulation, and i'm pretty sure /hag/anon already has a few unfounded opinions about me and my general, and even though nobody else tried to correct him about his opinions about us (with v7 even making it worse, imho) i have to trust that others will step in and help me communicate with him when we are having problems, which i really don't have all that much confidence in at this point. here's for hoping, i suppose.
>>39256682
this, pretty much. i doubt that's how he'll see it though. please, please, please help me articulate myself to him so that nothing really bad ends up happening.

>>39256795
There there. We've known you for months now.

>>39256514
You have weak blood

>>39256682
Nah, I'm just an observer in this, shift started anyway.

>>39256841
tyvm, but we'll see how things go. the fact that i get into so many problems with you guys when i go into a lot of detail, even after all these months, doesn't help my confidence that you guys will be able to communicate to him any of my quirks, especially since we haven't known him for months yet, and he doesn't know us all that well, either.

Hanabro, I finished it. If you need other things like regional map, tell me.

meatbro gave me a better name for the indies so here is the actual map kek.

>>39257925
ok thanks, i saw the other post. Regions really aren't needed imo right now. Thanks, i might as well start on the new lore doc now for the east at least.

>>39258002
Would you like me to give you a climate/geology report? I have never done one and want to try!

>>39258047
Sure zetabro, that would be very nice actually.

WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR

>>39255732
WMD level chuubanite applications would be taxing on communications and logistics given the time period. /hag/'s method of making a nation sized glyph may not be optimised.

Chuubanite magic is like sending instructions to a server. So a ritual have to be objective in its message. Trying to relay with subjective actions like a culture specific taboo would give a different intended message.
Example, If culture A sees bats as a taboo but culture B revered bats, culture A's ritual involving bats to harm a culture that loves them will confuse the server.
In this case, /hag/'s ritual involving dead babies, towards a culture that enjoys killing babies, could be misinterpreted by the server heaven as 'do more infanticide' instead of 'sterility'.

To make a glyph that represents a very specific subject, you need to provide the server with tons of details. As there are millions of people, one missing data will throw it off. So a glyph that represents a whole person 1:1, it needs to be like their own personal Akashic Record. Documenting everything from birth until death.

The alternative is for the glyph to be fitted with placeholders for contexts that switch each use/condition.
A spell whose power is to detect a person can be constructed like an algebraic equation. With the value you are trying to find left open for the server heaven to calculate.

In this way, /hag/'s method to create a super spell that can be used to target nations or their peoples needs to be extremely intricate/detailed to target everyone. Especially when a nation as a subject is much more complicated.

Was that good enough, PG?

>>39255732
>>39255768
>>39255799
Uhm this is a lot to take in.
But the curses and blessings are not meant to be some ultimate weapon that can influence others to an absolute. With the curse of the ash barren womb for example, it does not mean that now from this very moment on your people cannot birth any children at all anymore. Same with the blessings, the blessing for /vnug/ does not mean that the people now can go around naked in the snow and never freeze ever again. It is also not intended to be able to affect concepts directly like your life circle. It is also a big secret even within our own nation since it is very fragile and simply toppling over a bowl can end a blessing, and that being known would bring lots of danger and strife into our own nation, so nations affected would not even understand that we did that.
Also, i really did try to read the rentry i was given about magic, that is why i tried to incorporate glyphs at several points and to use chuubanite of the concept to be targeted since that seemed important. I also tried to read your lore, but it is very complicated and includes words i don't understand the meaning of, so i could not really get much of an understanding besides surface level from it.
Also, i never said the curse on /meat/ is permanent at all... i tried to explain the process as much as i could and also the requirements of it staying active, no curse or blessing can be permanent.
I am also sorry if i missed messages from you, and it seemed like i was ignoring you, that was not my intention.
I also don't have a bias against you as a person at all or anyone else, even if i find some of you scary and i am not sure how to properly respond at times.
As for the lore reason, when i tried to have diplomatic talks with one of you, i was denied and instead got a thread towards our people instead. That was the reason for seeing /meat/ as enemies in the world. For Hagu, the biggest weakness is that we are super reliant on other nations because without constant intake of men from other nations, not enough woman can marry and create offspring. That would result in a shift in generations where the nation would have too many elderly and not enough working adults, which would eat up lots of resources and strain the nation. That then in return means families can produce fewer offspring since they cannot afford too many children anymore, creating even less working adults for the generation to come. This means stagnation or crippling many sectors and ultimately leading to the downfall of the nation. Therefore, enemies that deny diplomatic relations with us are far more scary than for other nations.
I seem to only mess up and make people angry with what i write because everything seems to lead to arguments and people telling me why none of it should work, i just wanted to create something for /hag/ because this project seemed fun and when i wrote my first few things, people seemed to like it and that made me really happy, so i wanted to do more and interact more with the people here. But i don't want to cause this much trouble because i am stupid and don't get stuff all the time. I am thankful to the people that helped me with stuff like Cunt, 3beat, Vnugfriend, Mister /ag/, Mister Money and Mister Writhaven.

>>39258695
No need to take it personal.
You just want to have fun. That's okay.
PG's just blunt when it comes to magic/mystic stuffs.

>>39258695
>I seem to only mess up and make people angry with what i write because everything seems to lead to arguments and people telling me why none of it should work
Keep in mind that the faggots not being constructive insists on keeping their anonymity while the helpful ones are namefags. Theyre trolls. Cowards. Hiding behind being anons so they cant get criticised.
>As for the lore reason, when i tried to have diplomatic talks with one of you, i was denied and instead got a threat towards our people instead
Sorry about that. Some of us got too carried away with the kayfabe. We're very much happy to help with lore stuffs!

>>39258088
https://rentry.org/7yizn8
Ok, I tried and it isn't that good. Climeat, if you wish to help, I would appreciate it especially with the minerals and other things I am missing even.
>>39258695
Would you like me to attempt a climate report for you?

>>39259369
Hey don't be hard, its good enough for me and i think it was informative. gw Zetabro, i know you are trying your best and your best is good enough for me. Climate fits our thread perfectly.

>>39258695
>Mister Money
Fucking kek, great stuff kiddo, I'll call him that from here on as well!

Speaking of mister money, the bakery business in /inf/ might need an investor to get off the ground. You guys have any people over there that could help?

>>39259161
notice how he never mentioned anyone from the clique as being helpful. sure i am a coward but lets not pretend that this isn't typical. they attacked hagchad yesterday, and ruined their mood.

>>39259369
No, let Cunt and others who know what they are doing and aren't toxic shitheads like you do it.

>>39259598
DO YOU HAVE ALICE RENT FREE IN YOUR OR SOMETHING?!

>>39259369
No offense, but the others have this covered. You really aren't needed with /hag/.

>>39259369
You did well, don't worry too much about it. I should note, though, the soil of tropical rainforests is actually pretty poor in terms of nutrition. The reason why rainforest thrives and why land cleared from rainforest seems fertile at first is because of the organic matter building up over the age. However, once the organic matter is removed from the soil (by harvesting), the exposed soil is pretty much useless for agriculture (unless you dump a lot of fertiliser on it, which causes its own problems). That is why people living in tropical rainforest often make use of methods like slash-and-burn and slash-and-char, as the burnt/charred plants provide ample nutrition for the first few crops. Once the land has been depleted, the people would just move to a different place and let the land heal over time.

>>39259646
Ey yo how bout you fuck off eh? He's trying to amend for the fuck up yesterday, and more power to him for that.
And z, if you do end up doing it for Hagu, mind sending me the file as well so I can do the detailed biomes after?

>>39259598
ehh... while yesterday really was unnecessarily putting hagchan down for nothing. I doubt this plays into this for once. He simply named the people he interacted with the most. Why they mostly ignored him and what he wrote however who knows.

>>39259962
You mean the report? Sure. I am also going to label the plates and other things so that it makes sense when we look at it fast.

>lots of text

>>39258613
yes, infact i think some aspects of it might be useful to add to the chuubanite rentry if generalized, and if we can edit it, assuming it isn't already somewhere in there.
>>39258695
having any real effect at all extend across an entire nation is the problem. increasing the productivity of a nation when it relates to ironwork will result in that nation having more reliance on iron as a resource due to what they can make with it, and how much easier it is to do stuff with it. even if they are only slightly effected, the consequences will have an exponential influence over the rest of the nation. even if it is so small that it is hardly noticeable at all, the fact that it exists in the first place, and spans across the entire nation is what guarantees it will be far more influential than it has a right to be.
the way you described how it would work also creates problems, because there is a core logic behind how things work that you need a better understanding of to make sure you don't have unintended consequences. note that the effect you are striving for is possible, it just needs to be severely regulated, and made to work within our magic system. if you want help designing the mechanisms for how it works, please ask one of our local chuubanite autists, of which i am apart of, and would happily give whatever assistance i can in making a system that works the way you intend it to. with that said, anything that can influence an entire nation will inevitably be usable as a wmd. you are allowed one under certain circumstances, but they are to be handled with care, particularly in what it costs to effectively use them.
>Also, i never said the curse on /meat/ is permanent at all
so in that case, the part i quoted here: >>39255732 was how the one who started the curse will never recover, rather than the target of the curse. it's a bit confusing when you describe them as "bearers" since /meat/ bears the curse. sorry if i misunderstood you, though. i still think how it works needs to be refined a bit, but one of the problems i was concerned about seems to be a misunderstanding, so that's good.
>when i tried to have diplomatic talks with one of you, i was denied and instead got a thread towards our people instead.
ya, that was an innocent shitpost. we talked about it a few threads ago, but you didn't seem to notice. please don't take any offense from it, they didn't mean any harm from it, see >>39259161 and the conversation from a few threads ago. also, if you recall, i said we had our own hag chuuba in the form of awa, among a few others. i meant that as proof that we have something in common, and have no reason to be enemies. it was meant to be an establishment of common ground to form a diplomatic relation, but it ended up going nowhere. we never meant to be hostile towards you (pretty sure the post that you interpreted as a threat specifically mentioned that it would be consensual, ie only if you were ok with it. consensual pain is commonplace in various sexual activities, even and especially between two lovers, we just take it to a different level because we enjoy it) and he wasn't speaking in-universe, so there is no reason why it would influence lore. basically, the threat wasn't intentional, and i personally apologize for the inconvenience that was caused by me not being more direct about explaining it sooner. bad things tend to happen when i talk to people here, so i generally avoid saying too much and try to get others to think about things differently so they can talk on my behalf, but nobody was doing that, and i allowed the misconception to go on to the point where you wrote lore about responding to a situation that never happened in the setting, and was misunderstood in reality. there was never a reason we would have been hostile towards you in lore, and the hostility was not intended when it was said in the thread, so please anderstan!

>>39260077
Cool cool.

>>39260047
They did because he is a piece of shit like the rest of them, and you better believe it does. This is just a ploy to make them feel comfortable before taking the rug out.

tldr we are all terrible at communicating
Shitposts taken as facts
Irony as truths
No sarcasm detection
Kayfabe as reality

>>39260337
Fuck you I'm decent at communicating

>>39260337
And since that ain't changing any time soon, let's just sit back and enjoy the ride!

>>39260154
And where exactly are all these chuubanite experts aside from you that you speak of? As far as i can tell, the only people that still dare to even touch the topic are you and 3beat, who approved of it. Because of your need for absolute perfection, basically no one even touches upon chuubanite anymore. About 2/3 of the established nations don't even mention it existing at all. I honestly ask you the question what chuubanite is good for anymore, do you just want it as a toy for /meat/ or is it actually something meant for fun, for the whole thread to use? Because i think at this point, having to be judged and told how wrong it is by you has kind of ruined it being for the latter.

the inability to understand sarcasm and irony is a symptom of autism. We really are autistic

>>39260620
>nobody touches chuubanite anymore
Lol
Lmao

>>39260705
Nta but you barely even touch lore as is, so what are you lmaoing about?

Let's be real, the only error hagchad did was to curse /meat/ because pg cannot accept anyone touching /meat/ unless they have a novella written in great detail since it is a perfect and untouchable nation with a plan b for everything and that can do everything including killing gods themselves.
Also, how exactly is /meat/ sacrificing thousands of people daily exactly? One would think you would run out of people eventually at that rate. Ah but of course, they raid other nations, of thousands of people, daily, which no other nation would do anything against of course because their super agents can just hide such a thing with ease and no one would suspect such a thing anyway.

>>39260878
When you say, "barely touch lore", I'm not sure what you mean, you're very vauge and indecisive on your positions.
Barely implies that on some level, you know that the sentence following is almost certainly going to buckle, have confidence anon. Don't be vauge.

>>39261079
Meat is in like three different wars at any given moment

>>39261150
With whom?

>We finally have antis
Beautiful...

>>39260620
>And where exactly are all these chuubanite experts aside from you that you speak of?
mostly from /nasfaqg/, /morig/, or /inf/ it would seem, though there are a few other /meat/heads that get involved with it, and i think i've seen a lunato getting involved in the magic system. finally, though he isn't here and mostly existed to help make the rentry, comfyanon was very helpful in simplifying a lot of it for the rentry.
>>39261079
it seems the rest of your other comment and this one are a bit disingenuous, what thread do you rep for? i wont humor you any further unless you can answer me that question.

>>39261175
Deadbeats, custodians, risuners, I'm pretty sure the calciphate, and a few more I'm forgetting.

>>39261294
>Deadbeats
no
>custodians
sure
>risuners
fucking kek
>caliphate
This nation is at war with everyone already.

>>39261294
/morig/, v7, ppanon said we had a few skirmishes i think. /who/ has that one lore entry, we have to deal with schizos just like everyone else, our biggest enemies are definitely the custodians. kill all jannies.

/meat/ declared plenty of small scale skirmishes and raids. Either on a realm level or by any of the state theocracies.
Full out war, none so far.

>>39261488
what do you define as a war?

>>39261684
Formal declaration between two parties
Valid political reasons (inheritance, power projection, imperialism)
Ends with a formal treatise

>>39261201
Fuck yeah!!! Finally!!

>>39261251
>/nasfaqg/, /morig/
Both clocks and 3beat interacted with hagchad and seemed quite fine with it.
>or /inf/
pg... there hasn't been anyone from /inf/ in months.
>though there are a few other /meat/heads that get involved with it
That still just makes it a toy for /meat/ and not the thread.
>i think i've seen a lunato getting involved in the magic system
Lunaito's tulpas dabble in many things, but never produce anything.
>finally, though he isn't here and mostly existed to help make the rentry, comfyanon was very helpful in simplifying a lot of it for the rentry.
Another person that hasn't existed here in months.
>it seems the rest of your other comment and this one are a bit disingenuous, what thread do you rep for? i wont humor you any further unless you can answer me that question.
nta but he has a point in that a lot of people with expertise in other things hand wave a lot in your favor, i am certain pp could find plenty of reasons why your war tactics don't work as perfect as you think and sol can probably find holes in your economics if he wanted to.
>>39261294
>Deadbeats
Alright thats one, and from what i understand from that new lore they are writing together they are trying to amend that one.
>custodians
The fact you count this when the point was how they get thousands of sacrifices daily already shows how desperate you are.
>risuners
That hasn't been a thing lorewise for years.
>I'm pretty sure the calciphate
/meat/ is not high in priority for them, so this isn't really an active war, hostility does not equal thousands of people being snatched away daily.

https://rentry.org/5w66x
Alright hagbro and cunt. Here it is. O unironically copied wiki for some more information to share.

>>39261488
Small scale skirmishes, raids and their subterfuge stuff does not create thousands of people daily even if they raided who knows how many nations, how would they even transport that many people? And if it would happen to nations on such a grand scale, there is no way that even their "hidden" subterfuge will go unnoticed and that no one would do anything, they would have half the world against them and long since eradicated.

>>39261079
remember, pg has no understanding of what fog of war means and that is the biggest reason why its impossible to write with meat, as the whole warsuner meat thing showed. it is illogical to him that anyone can get bad information and make a mistake based on it.

>>39261773
why would anyone have a formal declaration of fisticuffs before getting into a fight? most people would just slug the guy they have a problem with until they backed off or fell unconscious. couldn't it be assumed that most of those instances had formal declarations if they were necessary? we've definitely had formal declarations of peace multiple times, including with /risu/ and more recently /morig/, though that is still in the making. by that definition, very few nations have ever actually had wars at all. congrats anon, you've just achieved world peace.
>>39261985
>nta
>>what thread do you rep for? i wont humor you any further unless you can answer me that question.
>thousands of sacrifices daily
samefag, when did we ever say we sacrificed thousands daily? also, i already told you i wouldn't humor you until you told us who you were, but i guess i am making an exception here for some reason.

>>39262181
i am an easy target since it is easy for people to make baseless accusations about what i said.

>>39262150
Slave castes are not 100% raided duh.
Majority were raised and bred domestically. Raids are for supplying new stock.

>>39262184
>until you told us who you were
He's the same faggot that kept repeating 'I wont tell you my identity or any of my writings because you will jump on me' all the time! My bet he's the UN faggot or the risu thread schizo

Yep, this all confirms to me that nothing is sacred to them. /meat/ is the backbone of this thread, and here they are trying to force them out. They did to good writers like retro, comfy, mountain, roseanon and long decided concepts like the hyperwar. Now they have their Coup de Grace, against Meat.

>>39261973
my schizo keeps running away...

>>39262408
i figured as much, but didn't want to assume. the fact that he refuses to answer just goes to prove it.

>>39262184
>samefag, when did we ever say we sacrificed thousands daily?
It was mentioned as one of the arguments against hagchads curse and not a single /meat/head seemed interested in correcting this statement so far.

>>39262592
where?

>>39262477
>suddenly it's the niji cabal's fault
>when /meat/bro is literally in their club

>>39262408
>>39262477
No i am not but think whatever you want.
>>39262631
Sometime when he first did it. Not saying it was you or a /meat/head btw, but as i said, no one from you seemed interested in correcting this statement until it became a topic just now so it stuck i guess. That was not really part of my argument anyway but believe you are just talking to one person all you want and dismiss it all as samefagging as everyone does.

"Grrrr yellow woman and friends want to get rid of /meat/!!"
>Founder tried to salvage the airship idea
>Panon and PG traded ideas
>/meat/bro and 774-anon discussed on how to handle the old hyperwar lore together

>>39262855
>raaaa why does everyone call me a same fag!
>no I wont tell you who I write for your scawy

>>39262855
After you impersonated as Retro? As Climeat? Proudly saying how much you want Mountain to kick V7 anon out? Posted screenshots of personal conversation? No fuck you

Dont forget that he also impersonated as Mousey and told Alice to kill herself. plus the constant
>grrr anon bad we must kick him
>seconded
>thirded
>fourthed
>fifthed
kindergarten levels of samefagging

Wait I remember that faggot! he's the sakuran impersonator too!
"muh JP lore and land is getting destroyed!!!"

>>39262855
>That was not really part of my argument anyway but believe you are just talking to one person all you want and dismiss it all as samefagging as everyone does.
it does happen often, so please forgive our suspicions if you are as you say nta. i didn't notice anyone say that, and i suspect it was hyperbolic. i can certainly see how a thousand full-fledged sacrifices a day would be logistically difficult. desu, there was a lot that went without being corrected in regards to /hag/anon, i take some of the blame upon myself, hence why i wrote all of that above, but it is rather difficult to correct every passing comment of all of their errors.

Dont provoke the schizo he's on his period

>>39262988
Ahh yes, because there is only one person in here that writes as an anon, no one else.
But sure, you want actual reps to say their thing? Then ask them.
Hey alice, mepman, z, warsuner, organic, clocks, hell even /meat/bro himself, honestly i am just naming people at random anyone else can say their thing too, how all of you feel about pg and how he treats everything related to chuubanite and /meat/ coming from other people.
And this is not meant to be personal against pg as a person, but about how he treats the lore of others and how he always demands perfection from everyone else while he seems fine to hand wave all possible issues for the side of /meat/.

>>39263386
>Ahh yes, because there is only one person in here that writes as an anon, no one else.
No it's because everytime the topic of anonymity is brought up, YOU are always there. youre using anonymity to be a little faggot and blame others. OG and Panon was forced to put on trips because of your ass and then you wonder why more writers are becoming namefags and tripfags. You made this happen, this is your fruit of labour. fuck you

>>39263346
if only it only happened once a month.

>>39263386
>mepman
>clocks
Tthe only ones to ever use those nicknames are the ones closest to them!

>>39263533
It's what happens when they dilate, it wouldn't be very pc if we didn't play along.

>>39262093
Looking good. I'll see if I can come up with biome placement based on this later when I get home.

>>39263533
Period in this sense being bloody diarrhea from his hotpockets

>>39263386
> how all of you feel about pg and how he treats everything related to chuubanite and /meat/ coming from other people.
PG scares the shit out of me, not because he is scary but because other people like him such as PP, Roseanon, Nasfaqbeat, Sol and the Hoomen also scare the shit out of me because I am afraid that I will mess something up as I consider them to be geniuses. It doesn't help that chuubanite isn't something I am particularly passionate about. PG is a nice guy, but I am just scared of disappointing him if I ever did anything with meat honestly. Not to mention I am not the best at reading, so my brain turns to liquid a lot trying to understand him.

As for meat, well it doesn't bother me. You guys are incredible with lore and ideas with Chuubanite so if it seems like Chuubanite is an exclusive club to some, perhaps its because some of us are just scared of not being good enough. I think this goes for many things in this project too, like stories, milautism, specbio, etc. Failing to live up to the reputation meat and morig have put out can be a real concern, and perhaps it does prevent me a bit.

In the end, this is mostly down to me being a big baby and nothing to do with anyone else.

I find it somewhat sad that there are people that spend their time shitting up this thread, starting arguments about fictional nations based of virtual youtubers on a Mongolian basketweaving forum. There are much better things to do with your time, going outside, talking to someone you are close with, playing some games, partaking in a hobby

>>39263713
Grrrr needs ball impregnation correction!

>>39263719
>playing some games, partaking in a hobby
What else do you think this is? They are just having fun in their own way.

>>39263516
>>39263572
Yeah, sure, keep making it about your stupid dicksword witchhunt or yellow woman bad meme or whatever. The fact all of you are sitting here as anons yourself, too scared to give your opinion on the actual matter with your name attached, makes you the same as me in the end.
>>39263713
Only person with balls, my respect.

>>39263572
I do not care what anyone calms me really.
>>39263386
To answer this, simply put, I think that PG is hard to understand as an esl because of how he types but I really do not personally think too much about the whole issue here. I find that chuubanite makes very interesting things, but unfortunately, I do not personally engage with it enough as it really isn't that interesting to me. In the end, I can only speak for myself so take it from my perspective of barely interacting.

>>39263918
>keep making it about your stupid dicksword witchhunt or yellow woman bad
You want my name? Well here you go, dickweed. Plus I never brought up dicksword! Everytime someone used anonymity as an argument its always your ugly ass!

>>39264058
You are not even the real founder of this project. Your words and opinions have no merit.

>>39263386
pg is my lowercase autistic brother, to answer your questions. i personally have rarely interacted with other nations and some feel my lore is hard to understand of pushs others away. i cannot offer you a valid opinion of pgs perfection because i havent interacted with him and honestly, i cannot read his posts (hypocrisy i have). If i have an critic of meat, like myself, we are hard to write with for our complexity like hoomen. lets try to make it easier.

>>39264058
You are blind if you think only ever one person argues in anonymity.
I don't give two shits about how many people your nation sacrifices or some BS like that.
But the fact is that lots of people in this project are willing to hand wave a ton of stuff to make it all work and instead of being autistic about every little thing a person writes might have done slightly wrong, they instead look at it and say: hey, that person jsut want to do something fun, and it really does not hurt anyone if this is not 100% accurate. Yet pg demands everything to be perfect to the most little detail. Again 3beat agreed and liked the curse stuff from hagchad, and he is listed as one of the people that understand it the most and no one else objected to it at all. But because it does not fully 100% agree with pg, now it all has to be redone again? And it was the same with the raid story that took place in /risu/. Because it was not 100% fully perfect in it's portrayal of /meat/heads and of course such a loss could never happen with them, it had to be redone.

>>39264474
yea and those both had to do with something that negatively affected other nations. If I wrote about invading /risu/ and warsuner had an issue with it but OG didn't I'd go back and try to find a way to fix it. Stupid.

>>39264474
Tbf founder and meatbro both said that they shouldnt make themselves too mary sue anymore. the collab writing between meat and mori is them trying to reverse that

>Pippa bows to Lolime.
>In contact with the fishman.
>Rumoured to posess lore analysis abilities.
>Controls FNAF lore channels with an iron fist.
>Reads lorebooks before they are comercially available.
>Will bankroll the first FlaVR FNAF lorebook.
>Lolimegrad will be the first chapter.
>In process of indoctrinating chat as her personal loreseekers.
>Owns every FNAF book in the universe.
>First real FNAF animatronics will be Lolime-brand animatronics.
>Said to have 500+ IQ.
>Ancient Scottcawthian scriptures tell of an angel who will descend on youtube and bring an era of FNAF and butter hydration.
>Owns butter factories around the world.
>You likely have consumed Lolime-brand butter recently.
>Every child has the mark of Lolime etched on them at birth.
>In regular communications with the hacker known as 4chan.
>Discovered what's in the FNAF 4 lockbox.
>Learned fluent english in under a week to read the FNAF books without translation.
>Full access to all Freddy Fazbear's Pizza locations.
>AI anon entrusts his prompts to Lolime.
>There is no NovelAI.
>Only LolimeAI.
>A loli from a human perspective.
>In reality a hyperdimensional entity existing in all universes and timespaces simultaneously.
>Can alter the plotline of every reality, even ours.
>Lolime will guide humanity into a new age of FNAF lore and liquid butter.

>>39264812
wrong bread homie

>>39264812
uhhhh

>>39264812
Based

>>39263386
remember that one time retro had an issue with me regarding souls? i figured out a way that the chuubanite system could accommodate his requests while at the same time remaining true to it's previously established mechanisms. it's true i want the magic system to be grounded, but i have designed it to be as accommodating as possible for everyone else so that all they need to do is ask for some help if they don't understand it, and others can help them do whatever they want. if what i am asking for is tantamount to perfection to you, then perfection really isn't too difficult to achieve. it looks more intimidating when you jump into the deep end, but just because it's complicated doesn't mean it has to be hard.
plus, i don't handwave all possible issues for /meat/. i even said i was fine with them keeping a grudge against /meat/, and even if you say /meat/ doesn't have any wars, that in no way means we don't have any issues. v7 is pretty much a hard counter to our intel network, and all of our enemies, even outside of formal declarations of war, are putting a lot of pressure on us. you even say the fact that we get killed so often by custodians means we shouldn't exist in this setting at all. i'll think of realistic ways /meat/ might respond to issues, because /meat/ would realistically try to respond to them, and i think others have done, and should continue to do the same, but when an issue exists, and it makes sense for it to exist, i am fine with it. the /morig/ peace deals weren't suggested by me, and i even advocated against it, saying that i didn't think it would happen realistically until their rep said they wanted to do it anyways, so i don't think it's fair to accuse me of handwaving away all issues for /meat/.
>>39263713
i am sorry if we scare you, and i wont be disappointed if you mess anything up regarding chuubanite, in fact, i would love to answer any questions you have to the best of my ability. desu, some of it goes a bit over my head at this point, too, but you aren't going to live up to whatever standard you have for yourself if you don't try. if you aren't interested in it, you don't need to do it, but if it is something you are interested in, but are also intimidated by it to the point where you don't want to risk it, please consider giving it a try at the very least. we can help you if you want it.
>>39264045
i am not esl, i have aspergers. instead of not knowing how 2 english, i english 2 much, and in a very rigid way that normal people are not used to. words have very precise meanings, and my autistic brain can't handle it when things don't line up perfectly with how i think it should work. that, combined with the way i format my sentences makes it very easy to misunderstand me.

>>39265084
No my friend, I am the ESL. It's all good and I understand totally. It's just formatting for me but I know you do good work anyways.

>>39264752
And thats good, but it doesn't work if pg still pushes that aspect or still pushes for absolute 100% representation of chuubanite from his view alone.
This is not to attack pg as a person, nor is this to say that everyone now can just do whatever the fuck they want without rhyme or reason. But there has to be a point where close enough should be good enough and every little miniscule detail on how every fabric of every glyph interacts and stuff, should be optional and not demanded by him. No milautist in here demands precise formations and list of equipment from others, no specautist demands how every organ in a creature's body works, no economyautist demands a full list of what taxes are applied to what and what is a primary sector or secondary sector etc. and if even the other chuubaniteautist don't demand such a level and are fine with a thing, then it should not be pg that demands even more just for himself.

>>39265127
ty, friend, and sorry if i misunderstood you.

>>39265084
I will at some point, its not your fault as I said, its all me. Really, I am kind of interesting in how Chuubanite of certain chuubas can effect climate.

>>39265153
>there has to be a point where close enough should be good enough
Yea. When you aren't using it to affect others.
If you're using your chuubanite to then affect others in a massive way, you should be able to explain it. If your chuubanite's affects are local, you're pretty much free to do and use it however you like. Like the Candy Kingdom.
If someone ever has a genuine ask or question as to how your chuubanite is balanced, then you can just ask them how it could be balanced if you don't know much, the entire point of such a detailed system is so that other people can explain where you might not be able to. BAAAAAKA.

>>39265084
>you even say the fact that we get killed so often by custodians means we shouldn't exist in this setting at all.
No i never said such a thing, again, not every post of an anon is just one person, i had nothing to do with that discussion at all, and as long as threads try to exist on the board, so should they have a right to exist in here.
Shit like >>39264186 are schizos that try to derail every fucking argument and is also why this is way more heated than it needs to be. And the fact that anyone who had this happen to themselves by the schizo, now sits there and unwilling to even read what is written by the comments or does stuff like >>39264812 to derail any conversation shouldn't be surprised the next time this happens to them again if they do the same to others.

>>39263386
>how all of you feel about pg and how he treats everything related to chuubanite and /meat/ coming from other people
He's got his issues but overall he is doing a decent job. His only problem with /meat/ stuff is that he seems to think that people cannot fail, and that /meat/ has perfect information which no one has, but his attempt to make sure that /meat/ isnt used to illogically prop up characters or factions or other mary sues is a good cause. If he does this only one-sided, than thats hypocritical, but its not like thats a great sin, especially since this place is full of hypocrites, me included.
>So in essence, I believe his intent is right, but his methods are not. He was worse in the pioneer days, and I would still like to acknowledge the change for the better he has achieved.

As for the curse, i dont think he has fully realized that what /hag/ claim the curse does (in universe) != what the curse actually does. Since all interaction here is based on mutual consent, it is perfectly in his rights to demand explanations for the curse thing, however autisticaly detailed and perfectionist they are, since the curse would have to do with the nation he writes for. If he wants his nation to be affected only by stuff he finds sensible, that is in his rights. Literally almost everyone else has done the same, their areas of interest and thresholds for plausibility just are different. The only question is how he is going on about that and I havent caught up with this drama yet, because reading dramaposting gives me immense headache.

I think in general people should treat each other's lore with some respect. Few do it at all, even fewer do it well. Or so I feel, that might just be my overthinking.
That's my two cents. And please call me nasfaqronie here.

Alright lemme throw some oil into the fire, since we're discussing /meat/ and all, even if it's not completely on topic, or maybe it is idk.
The only real issue, if it can even be called that, with meat guys I have is their representation of /meat/ in world. And by that I mean specifically being represented as a nation.
Let me clarify. This project, once you dig through all the larp and personal fantasy shit, is supposed to be about representing the generals and fanbases on this board, right? So why is /meat/, a fanbase that has been constantly under fire from jannies for the past half a year now, still being represented as a nation that just casually exists on this world? How many threads with /meat/ in the subject have survived in that time? You even talk about it here, how most people got turned off after the crusade, how you even have trouble staying bumped in /trash/, how you need to rely on stealth threads on here, and how even those get deleted sometimes.
Now, I am not saying that you should fuck off this project or anything of the sort, /meat/ culture is present all over the board, but I fail to see how you could still call yourself a nation on Vitubia when /meat/ as a stable general hasn't existed on this board for a while. We even discussed this to some extent a few threads ago iirc (I think it was 2 back) to no seeming conclusion.
It's not like having a nation is all there is to it, you set yourself perfectly with the many secret cells you have all over the world, and lore can most definitely be written around those no problem.

That is all, now back to wageslaving. I'll collect my (You)s on my next break, thank you.

>>39263386
this is the opinion of yellow woman and yellow woman only as she just got back to her computer and wishes to speak.
>how all of you feel about pg and how he treats everything related to chuubanite and /meat/ coming from other people.
Well, personally I actually have never been gatekept by him or any meatheads at all with chuubanite. In fact, they seem to be the ones who actually have attempted to help me the most. The worst experience i ever had with Chuubanite was the airship, and it was because i was told i did it out of spite and that I had to detail everything perfectly. Which no meat head said to me. I think nasfaqronie said this but PG sometimes makes it hard to work with meat, and i think he sometimes has trouble understanding the human errors that can happen in warfare or fog of war, but that seems to be more of a logical issue than him being high and mighty. It is what it is overall for me, and I love meat because they really help me a lot.

We all fail, we all are humans. I fail and so does he. But it is not worthy of a massive drama either. Let's forgive and move on!!!

>>39265688
We are not quitters. /ag/ and /ringo/ submitted defeat and went to /d/.
We are staying.

>>39265688
We settled that if /meat/, /ag/, and /ringo/ stopped being nations, then we'd also need to look back on alot of nations that have loose connections to their main thread concept, which I was fine with.
I'm all for /meat/ doing a return to barbarian pillaging like from the marine hag blockade greentext I wrote but that's just me and I'm only /umami/ so I dont got a say.
Architects can do fine with their projects without their island but the island was pretty based though.

>>39265983
List the threads that aren't following their thread concept. Let's take an honest look then.

How do we represent this in the world?

>>39265448
Yes, sure, you can discuss this properly, but it is clear that hagchad doesn't fully get it, that is no reason to throw this fucking wall of text at him that only tells about how wrong it all is and only at the very end offers a chance to talk about how to possibly fix it. Even more so after he just got shit for nothing by accident due to poor wording yesterday.
>>39265584
As a person, i got no issues with pg, but this was handled absolutely poorly by him and when it leads to potentially new writers quitting or there being a whole system of worldbuilding that people are too scared to use because of his interaction with content related to it. Then some reasonable discussion about that should be held.
And you guys also need to stop lumping every post made by an anon together to be written by just one person. This >>39260620 which i admit was more heated from me than it needed to be, does not equal >>39261079 being from the same person. And just because there is one schizo inbetween a discussion should not now give everyone a free pass to dismiss every post written and to derail the discussion yourself. Actual reps are making discussions more schizo now with that, than even the schizo himself.

AEGbro, if you are out there. Are you now the rep of /aa/ + /corpo/ + /myspace/?

>>39266321
I never intended to lump people together, im well aware that this is a discussion between ~7 people or so.
I also vehemently oppose dismissing posts as schizo posts without proof, and depending on the points made id also oppose dismissing schizo posts.

>>39266125
I aint qualified to make that list since I'm fine with either status quo's and also don't want to. If we want to go thread by thread than that's cool though.
>>39265925
Hey now, /ringo/ is fighting plenty. /ag/ has just assimilated into /lig/, /retro/ and /hag/ for the most part since Mint is our mascot and Mint discussion is still ongoing. Strategic stealth you see.
>>39266267
Rise of Pink Supremacy in Vitubia. The Pink Master Race will inherit the earth.
>>39266321
It seems like your issue is more with presentation than actual substance, the point is still pretty accurate so even if the presentation is sloppy that can be overlooked since presentation is only one part.
If you're pushing a meatloaf through a chain linked fence, you don't get hung up on the bits that didn't make it, you focus on the meat.

>>39266496
Yup, but i am waiting a bit to gauge things. Thread is stable but its not really aeg anymore and i will adapt.

>>39266804
So its like another invasion, or what?

>>39266884
the only invasion has been woozie, which has infected vrt too.

>>39266566
That last part was not just towards you but also towards a big chunk of the rest. People that said themselves they will not fall for the schizo that easily anymore yet at the first post of him go and lump all posts together by having to be from just one person and taking that as a pass to now derail any discussion themselves to "own" the schizo and instead doing exactly as he wants.

>>39266956
I saw... how are you going to handle it?

>>39266967
Exactly, that's why we should bite bait in a cool way.
No matter how dumb and volatile some random anon's sound, if you're confident on where you stand, anything they say only gives you the opportunity to check yourself over to see if you actually DID do anything wrong and to catch yourself before you do it again. like how sol had that discussion with that one anon that made a pretty good point and started making a visible effort to read and comment on more lore afterwards. Schizos true weakness is an honest and genuine response that lacks emotion and contains genuine curiosity for debate and discussion, they fear it because it's how you distinguish between them and a chill anon
>>39260878
>>39261100
That guy still hasn't gotten back to me so I assume they checked themselves over and found their argument to flounder, or at the very least, would be too hard to defend against.

>>39267279
honestly, i think a split will happen with her so i am taking a wait and see approach. It's impossible to write meaningful lore now for it all until the dust can settle you know?

>>39267600
also i would request you guys to change the name of aeg formally to /corpo/. For the same reason /kr/ is just /kr/ and not /vnug/ + /kr/.

>>39267836
No need really.
You can still be /aeg/rep. But the realm domain is under /corpo/. So your knowledge and rep is only in the /aeg/ area

>>39268135
There is no corpo thread on the map, its why I am saying it because our thread barely speaks of ex-aeg.

>>39265153
the milautist describes how his strategy might differ from another. the spec-bioaustist describes how his organism's organs differ from that of another. the economyautist describes what kind of economic system his nation operates on. all are an extension of the norms which are assumed to be common knowledge, or otherwise not sufficiently separate from another more common mechanism that everyone knows exists, even if they don't know the specifics of it. the more detail they put into it, the better. this is a worldbuilding thread, after all, so the more detailed, and grounded your worldbuilding is, the more you are engaging in the pursuit of our thread's goal. our magic system is a fair bit unique, i would say. that means it requires a bit more detail when explaining how it works to connect it with something that is real enough to be the basis of an entire magic system.
if something has a real world counterpart, you can just say it works like that, but when it comes to magic, the only rules that exist are the ones you make sure are maintained. maybe 3beat didn't think about the long term consequences of allowing a nation to curse or bless entire nations, maybe he didn't remember the restraints we agreed to put on ourselves previously, that's perfectly fine. it's useful to have multiple people voice their concerns to help keep everyone aware of alternative possibilities, to to refresh their memories. if he disagrees with my assessment, then he has every right to voice that disagreement, and maybe i will change my mind if i hear them, but as i see it right now, it is a wmd, and we agreed to restrict the accessibility of wmds.
i think the fact that the mechanisms don't quite work is easier to explain, since that is fairly objective, but the balancing aspect of it seems fairly understandable, too. i don't think he would disagree with me if he thought about things from that frame of reference. plus, again, i said i wanted to help /hag/anon find something that accommodates both parties. he can have that kind of wmd, we just need to make it work according to the setting, and then make sure it isn't overpowered.
>>39265584
>His only problem with /meat/ stuff is that he seems to think that people cannot fail, and that /meat/ has perfect information which no one has
i never said that, i was arguing with panon that he was mischaracterizing the way people make mistakes, not whether or not they make mistakes at all. i understand the fog of war, what i don't understand is becoming a completely different person under the effects of the fog of war. when you don't know what to do, you rely on what you know, not try something new. he basically said that because something unexpected happened, therefore the people who are conditioned to think a certain way under pressure think a completely different way when that just makes no sense whatsoever. you double down on routine when you lose your ability to handle things. if you are going to keep bringing this stuff up, at least make sure you are representing my actual opinion instead of a strawman, please.
>what /hag/ claim the curse does (in universe) != what the curse actually does.
this is why i hate the whole "all written word is author biased" stuff. /hag/anon did not write that rentry from the perspective of an "in universe" documentation of effects. he wrote it as an out-of-universe explanation of how his magic system works, which is exactly how he should write it, because that's exactly what it is, and it would be useless as far as worldbuilding is concerned for him to do it any other way. if you think that because this is a collaborative project, that we can afford to retcon the need of collaborating with anyone else, and can completely do away with the concept of canon in it's entirety, then i think you are wrong, and that that mindset will utterly destroy the entire point of a collaborative project. it defies all logic that allowing other nations to retcon the entirety of another nation's history and lore could under any circumstances help, or even fail to severely harm the ability for those nations to collaborate with each other. they lose their common ground by doing that. that's why i am so vocally against that idea.
if i am to speak freely, i don't think it should be tolerated. maybe when it is explicitly stated that it is a biased account of things, but never assumed to be true by default. disregarding canon is no resolution to the differences of people's opinion on how things should work, it is the neglect of collaboration in it's entirety, an insult to the very concept, and it is not the solution to any problem that you think it is. i highly recommend you change your outlook on it, in fact, i beg you to reconsider what effect you are having on this project by taking up such a stance. if we were to take that seriously, the potential for our setting to work coherently would be all but lost with that single decision.

>>39268768
so, there is a possibility that this will be the cause of some problems, else it will be ignored. that's fairly common for me, and it played a role in why i wanted to avoid too much discussion, but please be patient with me if that does happen, you guys know how difficult it is for me to do this, and if it's any consolation, i looked through it a few times to try to make it as smooth and polite as possible. with that said, i still expect things to go wrong, which is why i am writing this as a buffer to maybe help others remember the degree of mental/social retardation that i have.

>>39268768
>>39268970
man we need to have an argument sometime pg, I actually kind of like the way you organize your points. Though I also agree with you on most things.

>>39268768
>Author bias
I think actually that it is better to think of many stories in that regard more than "all written word". Its much different than from a lore doc for example imo.

>>39269230 (me)
And no, its not supposed to be a lame excuse. When I write my story for example, its totally reasonable to me for a totally different perspective to be told. This isn't a debate about the canonicity of stories, or canon itself but rather that stories are really the only pieces of lore that can without some preface get away with this imo.

>>39269374
Stories aren't lore however?

what the actual fuck is happening

>>39269679
I have no damn clue squirrelboy, I got online. When are risuners coming?

>>39269230
>>39269374
I think we all agree on that. A story is allowed to be as biased or unreliable as it wants to be.
>>39269609
Stories are lore only as far as an objective and clear cut Yes and No can be taken from them, or at least that's how I view it. Lore as I understand it, is representative of a clear cut truth about a thing, event, or place, even if you write something like "some have varying views on whether or not such and such occured" that is still lore in terms of describing the views of people rather than an event itself.
A story can represent pieces of canonical lore but I don't see stories themselves as being equal or substitutable with lore due to the confusion that would occur in terms of how different things can be interpreted based on whose point of view it comes from.
>>39269679
Not sure. Don't really care.

>>39269230
i think that if you write something, and ask for it to be counted explicitly as alternative-lore, noncanon, author bias, cultural mythology, outdated lore, or otherwise not actual canon, then you have full reign to do whatever you want. i just want you to make sure that it is stated as noncanon. if something isn't explicitly described as noncanon, or if you haven't discussed with others whether or not to count it as cannon (ie, collaborate with your peers to build a proper world instead of just deciding for everyone else what is canon, or rather, creating a conflict in canon where your lore cannot fit with someone else's lore, thus forcing people to choose which version of lore they will adhere to) people should feel comfortable assuming that it is canon, and that writing lore based on that canon wouldn't create conflicts in canon for others, thus making it difficult for them to interact with those threads that essentially exist in an alternate reality where history must have gone differently to make sense. you can have a culture with a different perspective of what happened, just make sure you know what actually happened, and why they have their perspectives. people aren't random, they're complex, just because it's hard to understand doesn't mean it doesn't follow any logic at all. i think you did an excellent job in regards to this in that you have made sure to remind people that some of your work is not to be taken as absolute canon, i think more people should use that as a reference.

>>39269887
well considering most of the lore doc is actually done i think by the end of this week we should have it finished. And after that ill begin.
Also pic related for literally every argument

>>39269927
Ah, PG I think you are correct here and thank you. I think what stories need to do is represent events but we can see the events from above from a much more clear perspective. Stories shouldn't be too different in their interpretations, like say I say louis killed some guy, but the other story says that the guy killed Louis. that is dumb and not how we should write. Personally, I also think stories can fill gaps that just a bland telling doesn't and they really are just spice.

All lore needs to make sense, yes even stories that are canon should make sense. Bias will be bias, but bias ought to be easy to see also. There shouldn't be confusion made by it, and the pieces all need to fit together.
>>39269893
Wrong, this is a very ignorant and flawed way in my opinion of viewing things because you sort of assume that some character bias or author bias that doesn't contradict the over context of what is going on is a irredeemable flaw.

Furthermore, this takes the human factor out of the equation and really you cannot do that at all. People are complex as PG said, and furthermore by that extension, it is impossible to be 100% accurate with anything for that matter because we are humans writing for this world. If I write a battle and say 5,000 losses for x side, being a contrarian and saying "Well aktually, it was 5042 losses" is stupid and worthless because not only does it not account for the fact that precise numbers aren't always available, but it shows a lack of actual critical thinking skills that are required for this project in my opinion. Things aren't black and white.


Rather what an accurate story should be is something that is not perfectly accurate, but rather that it keeps a logical way of events clear while also allowing for humans to make human errors. When you remove this aspect, you essentially in my opinion make the world unliving because it fails to take into account that this is how the real world that we currently live in works.

>>39269927
all the canon and chuubanite stuff aside, i think the real issue here is lack of communication. had people made it clear to him that it was just meant as shitposting and not serious diplomacy when he posted the curse at first then i doubt it ever gotten so far, he had no issue deleting his thing he wrote for risu when warsuner pointed out the issues of it. i saw it brought up only once days later, and when the haganon was not in thread it seems, from /meat/bro that he never was serious.

>>39270527
This is such a flawed argument. We NEED objective shit. We don't need flawed sources, that's fucking overcomplicating things too much.

>>39270652
Objectivity is rare in real life, and you will never get perfect information in this world or vitubia. I am not going to write every number exactly nor should anyone expect that. What are you going to remember more? 5,000 or 5,042? What difference does it make if I say an army has about 80,000 vs "It has exactly 84,231 men."? You would be lucky to find such information in the real world.

>>39270760
Because you as a writer can give perfect information dumbass! Fucking hell, why are you being flawed on purpose?

Alright niggers, that's too many wall of texts from everyone even for my autism, can I get a QRD? Is hagbro alright? Do I need to translate some magic into PGnese?
My criteria for magic is not whether it is fully explained, but whether it is fully explainable, which I believe the curses/blessings are. In worldbuilding, always drilling down to the minute detail is not practical from a man-hours standpoint; things should be explained on a "need-to-understand" basis.
This is >>39265584 pretty much it.
>As for the curse, i dont think he has fully realized that what /hag/ claim the curse does (in universe) != what the curse actually does. Since all interaction here is based on mutual consent, it is perfectly in his rights to demand explanations for the curse thing, however autisticaly detailed and perfectionist they are, since the curse would have to do with the nation he writes for.

>>39270794
Please do not make it personal. Why? Because when I write, I am not taking the form of myself but someone else. If you do not like that, then I do apologize but I will write how I write and if you want to discount all of my writings for not being pinpoint perfect, then you can do it freely. This is how I wish to interpret lore.

>>39270652
nta obviously, we need objective shit, but we can benefir from flawed sources too, so long as the fact that they are flawed sources is communicated. i think that was their opinion, too, so i think there is more or less an agreement between the three of us, and now we need to communicate that fact, but i could be wrong. basically, we can avoid overcomplicating things by having an objective account of things, but also having room for a "this person has this interpretation, which differs from the objective interpretation slightly" kind of approach.

>>39270862
Very well, then I won't.
>why are you making it personal
Why are you taking it personal?

>>39270901
Well as you know, my overall point is that some blemishes shouldn't make something bad PG. Whether that is objective or not is up to you guys I think. I just try to write lore that is very true, but can have some flaws in it on purpose. As long as there is a line of logic, it should be flexible.

>>39270833
>Is hagbro alright?
I don't think he is. I swear to god if we are losing Friendship lake bacause of this, I will kill somebody.
Also here's a qrd for my tiny wall of text
>i don't think that /meat/ should still be represented as a stable nation, as /meat/ as a general has been either in stealth threads or deleted instantly. Instead I feel they should represent the /meat/ culture as idk survivors of the janny war trying desperately to escape their gaze while rebuilding or something. So basically just scale it down from a nation to a tribe or something, just trying to survive the jannies.

>>39270833
>Is hagbro alright?
he has not shown a sign of life since his response to pg, after yesterday this might have been the killing blow.

>>39271193
I blame Z ultimately.

>>39271232
he might have fucked up badly and his attempt to amend it today seems to have been too late but i doubt he wanted to achieve this.

>>39271105
Hmm, they are targeted by Custodians, but they do still make threads, and the stealth thread are comparable to other generals in terms of lifespan and activity. I think the scale of the nation is proper, but the impact the janny wars has on the thread could stand to be played up further. Founder's story was a great way to do that, and I think following its conclusion, they get only a short respite from Custodian harassment and the destruction soon resumes. But ultimately, if they prefer to downplay the impact of the custodians on how functional the thread is, I think they're free to do so. Most writers downplay or emphasize some aspects of their threads.
Also, while I have your attention, I was thinking a Sanallite might take a Chronobanks ship to Moriji to get a Mori-chuubanite freezer to try to replicate Sanallite ice cream. Do you see any problems with this scenario?

>>39271457
i sincerely doubt that is the reason at all but rather how this thead went at Z like rabid dogs made hagbro feel bad. I know i would.

>>39271563
probably a mix of both.

>>39271745
doubtful, and if it is a mix of both, certainly more to what i said since the reality is he apologized and made it clear yesterday. We need to stop blaming one person for something as that isolates them, especially when the circumstances were as such.

>>39271008
the story should be flexible, the canon should not. otherwise it becomes difficult to create a coherent narrative that us as world builders need in order to create stories that don't contradict with each other. again, you have every right to write whatever you want, but if you don't think it should count as canon, you should state as much instead of leaving others to figure it out themselves. again, i think you have done a good job with that because you let people know your lore is written from the perspective of the narrator, i just don't think we should make that the default. if someone wants to write biased lore, that's fine, and if someone wants to write objective lore, that is also fine. we should not let people try to write biased lore into canon as though it was objective when it contradicts someone else's lore, else we retroactively take away their ability to write objective lore, which is incredibly unfair in my opinion, more so than anything the alternative could possibly lead to.
>>39270833
>My criteria for magic is not whether it is fully explained, but whether it is fully explainable, which I believe the curses/blessings are.
that's a strange criteria, given that i have said repeatedly that i have designed the magic system to allow for as much as possible. everything is explainable, even a few things that, if not for balancing, would ruin the setting and lead to terrible things. what actually matters is if it is fully explained, so that proper countermeasures and balancing can be made to make sure things don't get out of hand, both for that instance of things, as well as future instances, where the limitations of our system will inevitably be tested. if we don't have a fully explained system with hard and fast rules of conduct, a magic system that allows everyone to do anything will inevitably lead to powercreep and unbalanced ass-pulls. we use the minutia to keep things reasonable, and grounded. else, we would have to either accept that our system is incoherent, and that we have failed at worldbuilding, both by our failure to create a coherent setting, and our failure to describe that setting sufficiently for it to be described as a proper world, or we make our magic system significantly less adaptable, thus making it so that some things are flat out impossible in our setting. i went through a lot of effort to make it make sense, and i don't want all of that effort to completely go to waste just because a few people can't be bothered to actually collaborate in this collaborative project.
>>39265688
>>39271105
as i am biased, i agree with my fellow biased thread-mates >>39265925 though i somewhat disagree with how they formulated it, desu, i think /ringo/ and /ag/ have enough influence here to justify having their own nations, too, but this isn't something i am anywhere near as confident in as the above. if you can establish that a conflict exists, i might change my mind, but i don't think it makes sense to have us as a separate entity than what we currently exist as, and i would prefer maintaining what we have.

>>39271844
wait he actually did? i thought after things got heated, the topic was simply dropped and glossed over aside from the hounds going for Z.

>>39271961
Not everyone should, because its not something that can be done by everyone imo. I have to put myself in the shoes of that narrator but also take into account canon. Canon will never be compromised nor should be.
>>39271969
>>39221119

>>39271961
You mind if I get back to you on this in an hour or so once I get home? Phoneposting from work atm, and I feel that a proper response to you, so I can clarify what I meant exactly would require me to actually sit down.

>>39271961
Also PG, if I can offer an opinion about the thread. I think you guys should stay on the map, but should be in the midst of a true life or death war that is ravaging your lands, destroying your cities, etc. As that is sort of the struggles meat has went through, where I remember it was said it was a live thread for so long and now it struggles with bumps.

>>39272194 (me)
when its not being nuked by jannies of course.

>>39272194
>>39272240
Problem is that goes against their beliefs in meme magic.

>>39271961
>as i am biased, i agree with my fellow biased thread-mates >>39265925 though i somewhat disagree with how they formulated it, desu, i think /ringo/ and /ag/ have enough influence here to justify having their own nations, too, but this isn't something i am anywhere near as confident in as the above. if you can establish that a conflict exists, i might change my mind, but i don't think it makes sense to have us as a separate entity than what we currently exist as, and i would prefer maintaining what we have.
but doesn't the current depiction of /meat/ contradict the reality of things?
>>39272094
ngl, that is super vague, i won't deny if the intent was to apologize to /hag/anon but on a glance that is not really how i would read it and it seems more the other side around like he is accepting an apology from /hag/anon instead.

>>39271543
Huh, first time this site ate my reply.

Regarding Sanallites, I am currently waiting for Mister Money to get back to me on whether they have any rich guys on /inf/ that would be willing to invest into us. After we get established though, I feel like the word of your chuubanite would reach us eventually, either through business partners or customers, and research into its applications and a deal for a supply route would happen soon after. I say maybe within the next 10-15 years. Gotta see how things develop first though.

As for meat, I see where you are coming from, and I was simply just putting my thoughts out with the post. In the end, it's up to meatbros to decide how to write meat, even if I might not agree completely with it.

>>39272382
I don't see how "it's my bad" doesn't translate to "It's my fault, I am sorry" let's not nitpick words here. The intent was clear.

>>39272382
Alice’s idea actually fixes that rather well.

>>39272572
But that reduces meat to a shell of a state, and really isn't how the meatheads want to do things. If they remain powerful here, in their minds, they will recover.

>>39268768
>if something has a real world counterpart, you can just say it works like that, but when it comes to magic, the only rules that exist are the ones you make sure are maintained. maybe 3beat didn't think about the long term consequences of allowing a nation to curse or bless entire nations, maybe he didn't remember the restraints we agreed to put on ourselves previously, that's perfectly fine. it's useful to have multiple people voice their concerns to help keep everyone aware of alternative possibilities, to to refresh their memories. if he disagrees with my assessment, then he has every right to voice that disagreement, and maybe i will change my mind if i hear them, but as i see it right now, it is a wmd, and we agreed to restrict the accessibility of wmds.
>i think the fact that the mechanisms don't quite work is easier to explain, since that is fairly objective, but the balancing aspect of it seems fairly understandable, too. i don't think he would disagree with me if he thought about things from that frame of reference. plus, again, i said i wanted to help /hag/anon find something that accommodates both parties. he can have that kind of wmd, we just need to make it work according to the setting, and then make sure it isn't overpowered.
>>39258613
>>39271961

Okay, I think these posts sum up the crux of the issue.
So, to start, I agree that the curses/blessings are extremely complex spells with a lot of limitations, and I believe this was brought up, acknowledged and addressed during my conversation with /hagbro/. Once I confirmed that he could work within those limitations, I did not feel a need to drill down into the minutia of how the spells work exactly, as that would be a lot of writing for me, and I do not believe that was detail that hagbro required or was interested in. But I'm happy to explain further upon request, as in here.

So, here is how the fertility curse works, in a mathematically chuubanitic level.

First, 666 babies of the right heritage are obtained. Each of those babies has a personal concept. By using the information contained in all of their concepts, you get a pretty good idea of what the average Matiyotl personal concept is, this is your input information, and how the server "knows" its target.

This has some intrinsic limitations: people closely related to the babies will be more strongly affected. If the sample of babies gathered is focused in one region of /meat/, other regions may be almost completely unaffected. People outside of /meat/ but with /meat/ heritage may be accidentally affected.

Second, the "program". Most of the heavy lifting of the spell is done by the nationwide pentagram glyph. This would be the glyph that does the complex task of spelling out how to target a large group of people. Then, the minutia of the spell is explained through further glyphs that explain stuff like "This spell affects the psychology of individuals to disturb the menstrual cycle."

Essentially, the spell has to layers: the pentagram explains how to transmit the spell to the target, the local glyphs explain what the spell is.

Now, the spell is explained to the server, and it has the information it needs to accomplish its task. Now, the effect.

Since the curse/blessing is transmitted remotely through the Heavenly Realm, it needs some kind of conduit to affect the target. If they are in contact with /hag/ chuubanite for some reason, direct physiological effects are possible, but this is logistically unlikely for any nation besides /hag/.

Without physiological effects, the blessings are limited to affecting the mind of the target, as it is established that human minds can exchange information with the Heavenly Realm through divination and the like.

The menstrual cycle is affected by emotions. What the fertility curse does is send subliminal messages to the minds of people affected by the curse to nudge their emotion state such that their menstrual cycle is affected.

Now, the curse is explained to the server, has the information it needs, and affects people. the last point of contention is the magnitude of the curse. Does it reduce the fertility rate by 1%? 10%? 99.9999%? Obviously it should be something reasonable that both parties can agree on. The actual magnitude of the curse is somewhat arbitrary, so this can simply be selected, and other factors can fall into place to accommodate it.

Whew, does this make sense?
>>39272427
Aight, nice.

Also why should /meat/ get punished anyway? They still want to exist. It's the jannies that hate them

>>39272479
>its my bad this shitshow has happened
aka, i am at fault this got so out of hand, not, i am at fault for having misunderstood what you wanted. I am not denying his intent at all, and with the context i see it too, but it is not what i see at first glance.

>>39272742
My suggestion isn't trying to punish meat at all. It's to show the accurate reality of what's going on. It can be represented in so many fun ways that they can have a lot of fun and has so much lore potential. But the theme of it all WILL be that /meat/ is alive and /meat/ lives on!

>>39270527
In terms of lore and stories, lore is an objective representation of reality and taking away from that objective sense takes away from the whole of reality. This isn't just for the sake of rigidness, this is so that anyone can look at something and immediately understand the blunt truth of how things work so as to make collaboration easier, this is one of the main reasons I believe that anyone can write something for any thread because the lore should present an objective reality strong enough for a writer to run with it and write to it accurately. When lore stops being consistent in terms of what's written, its only going to fuel misunderstandings.
A story is just a powerful without being entirely canonical but if stories were to be considered pure blunt and factual lore than you'd have confusion as to how nations are actually supposed to be and how they're represented in stories by their enemies and allies. There is a clear cut reality that is an objective fact outside of the individual person and even if that reality is condensed into a vague info, it's important that is what we take to consider lore instead of the individual perspective.
No need to reply but I went to get a haircut and unlike my schizos I aint a runner from a nice argumentative debate.

>>39272836
According to Founder's story, banish era /meat/ is less of a country and more of a government in-exile surviving on their spy network
Which fits them using stealth threads and taking over bait thrads

>>39272742
this is not about punishing /meat/ but to accomplish the goal of the project, representing the thread as it is. i doubt niji threads are all too happy about all the schizos they have in their threads, like nijiEN, but they still represent it, or at least try to.

>>39272922
This. The story ends with /meat/ getting brought back into existence. but until that time comes, they're still in exile. the nation still 'exists' on the map. but no one can go there. the only interactions available are with /meat/heads living abroad and their exile government network

>>39272864
That's fair and all but I take the perspective of that we aren't incapable of asking questions about a story. Canon is not dictated by how perfect, or blemish free lore is. Rather how true the account is to the events. The same is true of history in real life. Should we throw out Livy's account of the Battle of Cannae because it's written from the Roman perspective, and we have no Carthaginian perspective? Of course not! But even with Livy's biased Roman perspective, he tells an accurate account of the battle and along with Polybius, we can fully understand the Battle of Cannae.

It's simple really, there is no such thing as perfect lore but imperfect lore can be canon because of how accurate it really is.
>>39272922
>>39273144
I know this very well, but there remains confusion about this whole matter which is why I am suggesting to open this option up. Founder's story can fit right in with it too imo.

>>39273144
Then why was I told that meatheads would stop raiding me and that I was trading with them???? I am super confused now....

>>39273377
Apparently, meatheads don't even keep their own canon lore if Founder's story is canon.

>>39273377
Because ya see, continuity is more of a suggestion than an actual rule, friend

>>39273589
Boy, I need to understand how any of this makes sense and how I am trading slaves to a non-existent nation in exile.

>>39273303
>It's simple really, there is no such thing as perfect lore but imperfect lore can be canon because of how accurate it really is.
Yes. I've kind of been saying that with the, "Stories are lore only as far as an objective and clear cut Yes and No can be taken from them" the only difference is that lore as you refer to it is how I would consider stories and the idea of perfect lore is just the blunt no nonsense factual descriptions of Vitubia and its history.
>>39273652
/meat/heads are still around, their homeland is just gone. Same with all the others, you can still interact with them.

>>39273472
come to think of it, when exactly is the story with /morig/ happening? would those military exercises not also be impossible in their current state?

>>39273652
You chuck em in the sea and hope they can swim to /meat/, if jannies permit

>>39273710
I need you to make sense of how I am even doing business on a reasonable scale with a state in exile and them telling me about all the different types they have in their homeland and such when this apparently isn't true. I have been bamboozled.

>>39273771
The story occurs before the exile in Hel and Back. Hel and Back has dates, but I think Founder would be willing to adjust them.
The military exercises have to happen late enough for a Sanallite ice cream artist to have made it to Moriji.
>>39273859
You're trading slaves with them whenever they are not in exile, I guess. the exile only lasts a few years.
Or maybe you're buying slaves from Matiyotl operating in foreign lands.

as I said, Founder's story should just be one part of the reality of what meat is in. It's a state that is facing life or death, and is effectively in limbo. I don't like the idea of having the whole area sealed off as that limits potential here personally, but I still believe my suggestion is the best way to make sense of it all.

>>39273937
>I don't like the idea of having the whole area sealed off as that limits potential here personally
I don't think the idea is that they're sealed off forever, the story clearly has a start and an end date to the exile.

>>39273937 (me)
their path can be of their choosing ultimately!

>>39273910
>The military exercises have to happen late enough for a Sanallite ice cream artist to have made it to Moriji.
Aight I'm missing some context. Why exactly is a sanallite necessary for military exercises?

>>39274023
Well, I want to have a scene where two characters have a date at an ice cream shop.
It's absolutely critical to the narrative, trust me.

>>39272094
i never said everyone should. all the writer needs to do is say their lore isn't canon. from there, the next precedent is what makes canon, so long as it respects precedent. any part of it that is untenable with canon can be declared as author bias, mythology, or even alternate reality shenanigans, you as a writer don't have to worry about that stuff unless you want to, you just need to be humble enough to acknowledge if your lore might not fit within the same canon as the rest of us.
>>39272162
absolutely. desu, i want to do a few things myself, but i feel obliged to stay here and respond to people.
>>39272194
this is pretty much how it has been for some time, and that is how i have suggested that we keep it. wasn't there a story about a custodian destroying a village, or sending /meat/heads to some strange realm, or generally fucking shit up for us? that's how it has been, and that is how i think we should remain.
>>39272382
if you mean the fact that /meat/ exists as a nation, then i would say it depends on what you think a nation is supposed to represent. we have threads, they exist on /vt/, every now and then they are named, even if they get killed by jannies a lot when they are, we still call all of our threads /meat/ threads, and are still identifiable as /meat/, we still have influence on /vt/. you would have to say that only named threads that make it to bump limit should count as nations, but then we get into stuff about frequency and population size and what not, which we agreed we wouldn't do.
nobody wants /ggg/ to be the biggest, most powerful general in the world, and nobody wanted to have specific anons represented as in-universe beings, so we decided that the only thing that really translates into a nation is the culture. by that logic, our culture has continued to exist, and should therefore remain as a nation, but if you change the definition of what a nation should be to include, in addition to what was previously established, new criteria that would make our threads suddenly illegitimate, then by that definition you would be correct, but why would you want to change the definition? i would rather you not, to be entirely honest.
>>39272717
>By using the information contained in all of their concepts, you get a pretty good idea of what the average Matiyotl personal concept is
how so? children are children, they don't inherently have anything to do with matiyotl or it's personal concept. without an established personality, the children can't be associated with the personality of the culture they come from, and if that is to be the case, then what is to distinguish them from literally any other child? as i said, you need to be more specific when it comes to the heavenly realm, it doesn't just automatically understand what you are trying to communicate.
>People outside of /meat/ but with /meat/ heritage may be accidentally affected.
people outside of /meat/ with absolutely no connection to /meat/ whatsoever might be just as effected. do you remember the criteria that was required just for a personal glyph to be usable? how can you possibly get the concept of a nation by pointing to a bunch of children who come from an arbitrarily defined region that, unless explicitly defined, would have no inherent meaning to something like the heavenly realm.
>This would be the glyph that does the complex task of spelling out how to target a large group of people.
i want to know how. more importantly, i want to know how it does it in such a way that all that is necessary are 666 babies from a region. that number, along with the star shape seems arbitrary, why exactly 666? why not 1000 or more? wouldn't it's reliability reasonably go up the more of it you do? there are a bunch of other aspects of the way they described it that you didn't address, is all of that mere flavor? why do the bearers experience anything differently? why do the children have to be burned to ashe? wouldn't it be easier to turn all of those children into transubstantiations of their nation and inflict onto them whatever effect you wish to cause for their nation? but then, how do you define a nation without needing to interact with it at all beyond those few children? the most important aspect behind all of this is that /hag/ can create and sustain multiple nation-scale curses or blessings with just a few minor sacrifices, as seen from a nation-scale perspective.
1% is too powerful, they say 2% is enough to change the climate of the planet, that's planet-scale, not nation scale, imagine how much larger an effect it would be if a simple spell like that could increase your gdp by even .5%. and to have it only apply to specific circumstances such as metalworking? you'll lopsidedly advance one sector of their economy while leaving the rest in the dust, of course it would dramatically change culture, be a permanent effect on their history, and single handedly make, break, or puppeteer an entire nation if used in the wrong hands.

>>39274010
I think you misunderstanding me, I mean that during this I am not a fan of the principle of the whole land of their nation being sealed off because you have instances, like what Moonafic is saying, where this directly contradicts deals that have been made by the cabal even after the story. What I am overall saying is that Founders story can be a piece of the puzzle, but perhaps not the whole power.
>>39274023
Ice cream is good.

>>39273910
does that work? wasn't sana graduated before the exile? i mean there are ways to fix it all and make it have sense, but i feel that the /meat/heads aren't quite on the same page with their projects in regards to canon atm.

>>39274091
Yeah, that's what I am proposing. This needs to be shown more imo.

>>39274086
I see, you make a compelling argument.
>>39274091
I should be home in about 10 min, so 20 min max before I can sit down and explain my thoughts on the matter. But if you are busy, don't wait for me, go do stuff! The wall of text aint gonna go anywhere.
>>39274128
Well yes ofc, but what flavor is the best? Let's start some actual drama!
>>39274159
And why would Sanas graduation mean Sanallites don't exist anymore?

>>39274376
Chocolate minto or chocolate chip.

>>39274376
pistachio, birthday batter, and mint choc. go fuck your yourself

>>39274451
Me btw

>>39274091
>how so? children are children, they don't inherently have anything to do with matiyotl or it's personal concept. without an established personality, the children can't be associated with the personality of the culture they come from, and if that is to be the case, then what is to distinguish them from literally any other child? as i said, you need to be more specific when it comes to the heavenly realm, it doesn't just automatically understand what you are trying to communicate.
I think the personal concept includes more information than just personality, in fact you're the one that told me the personal concepts were already distinct at birth. The personal concept thus should include information about who their parents are, among other things. In fact, if nothing else a child's concept should include information about their parents, since a child's parent is his whole world for a while.

>people outside of /meat/ with absolutely no connection to /meat/ whatsoever might be just as effected. do you remember the criteria that was required just for a personal glyph to be usable? how can you possibly get the concept of a nation by pointing to a bunch of children who come from an arbitrarily defined region that, unless explicitly defined, would have no inherent meaning to something like the heavenly realm.
See above.

>i want to know how. more importantly, i want to know how it does it in such a way that all that is necessary are 666 babies from a region. that number, along with the star shape seems arbitrary, why exactly 666? why not 1000 or more? wouldn't it's reliability reasonably go up the more of it you do? there are a bunch of other aspects of the way they described it that you didn't address, is all of that mere flavor? why do the bearers experience anything differently? why do the children have to be burned to ashe? wouldn't it be easier to turn all of those children into transubstantiations of their nation and inflict onto them whatever effect you wish to cause for their nation? but then, how do you define a nation without needing to interact with it at all beyond those few children? the most important aspect behind all of this is that /hag/ can create and sustain multiple nation-scale curses or blessings with just a few minor sacrifices, as seen from a nation-scale perspective.
Through trial and error over the ages, they found that 666 was a nice balance of doable, effective, while also including some nice symbology.
A bunch of the procedures are ritualistic flavor, yes.
The bearers are affected by a different part of the glyph spell, so the effects are slightly different.
They are burned to ashes because that's easier than completing transubstantiations for each of them. The ashes are mixed in with chuubanite, and the chuubanite becomes imbued with the personal concepts of the children, and the ashes are then brought to the location of the final ritual.
Then the curses and blessings should be moderated in their magnitude so as to be balance.

>1% is too powerful, they say 2% is enough to change the climate of the planet, that's planet-scale, not nation scale, imagine how much larger an effect it would be if a simple spell like that could increase your gdp by even .5%. and to have it only apply to specific circumstances such as metalworking? you'll lopsidedly advance one sector of their economy while leaving the rest in the dust, of course it would dramatically change culture, be a permanent effect on their history, and single handedly make, break, or puppeteer an entire nation if used in the wrong hands.
Alright, then it's 0.1%. Just gotta find a number you're happy with.
Any other concerns?

>>39274159
The sanalite refugees in Infinitum are a consequence of Sana's graduation, dw about that, the timeline works.
>>39274376
Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously.

>>39274201
Why? Why should what you say be put into effect? Since when do you personally write for meat?

>>39274451
>>39274472
You both are fucked in the head. Strawberry is where it's at and nothing else.

>>39274527
And you as well, see my previous comment

>>39274830
Well you have one good taste.

>>39274376
I like cookies and cream the best but I like a bunch of other flavors as well!
>>39274451
Based

>>39274862
Strawberry ice cream is okay, I guess. But if it's gonna be strawberry, I'd much rather have a sorbet.

>>39274899
Based kindred understanding what is good ice cream.

>>39274830
Strawberry is eternally held back by the stupid strawberry bits they put into it.

I wonder, what sort of spices / plants that could be used for flavorings could be present in nenmen?

>>39275012
Cum?

>>39275003
You never had a more unbased take, and that's a hard thing to accomplish.

>>39273652
>>39273710
>>39273859
>>39273910
Hey dorks! We still exist before the exile! Not every lore has to follow real time!
The moona stuffs could take place 1120-ish at start date!

>info gathering on what ice-cream to present to officials when establishing foreign branches acquired, they fell for it hook line and sinker

Btw don't think I forgot because this ice-cream thing, pg, i'mma get your wall of text ready as soon as I finish this soup.

>>39275110
Denied DORK! Unclear instructions resulted in your dick being stuck in a water bottle.

and I like vanilla chocolate twist, choco mint and cookies and cream!!

>>39275129
>he thinks I will take that into account when negotiating with spaceniggers.

>>39275307
>She will

>>39275271
It's me, dork!

Before I pass off, my only suggestions to you guys are as follows
>If /meat/ is gone then how are we interacting with them
Non-chronological duh. Have it take place BEFORE the exile. We still got 1130 years of history to fill! We could have made a deal around 1000, 1110, give and take
>Current status of /meat/
I agree that if we are to be represented in our current state, the whole emergency government network proxies are the best way. Maybe you guys would want to write about interaction with us in-exile. Homeland is stuck in limbo, but the people, the diaspora and cultists live on
>But what if the return never happen?
Fuck you!

>>39275368
Founder... when will the jannies let you back

>>39275062
I'm right and you know it retard.
Ice Cream should be consistent and smooth and strawberry decided not to be that. It failed.

I like no sugar added vanilla. Especially if its frozen yogurt. That's just me.

>>39276437
Frozen yogurt chad, nice pick.

>>39276437
fro yo vanilla is based. In my opinion, better than cream.
Max smoothness and little to no freeze.

Would sea shoggoth REALLY be able to survive in the artic to sub artic climate? It's struggling to get as much heat is necessary to survive as is and without a regular calorie input, it can't sustain its form.

Alrighty, so here are my thoughts on why I feel /meat/ shouldn't be represented as a NATION anymore.

Alright, so first some meta things to sort out.
I have always felt, and I hope that we can all agree on this one, that for a general to be represented on Vitubia, the base requirement is for the general on the board to be stable to a certain extent. That is not talking about FANBASES being represented in Vitubia, just the generals. We'll get to the fanbase part a bit later.ž

And looking at /meat/, while they do regularly try to start the general up according to warosu, none in the past few months have reached anywhere near bump limit, or even 100 replies for that matter, before either being bumped off or straight up deleted. And they also commonly use the tactic of stealth threads, which, according to past reports here, also get discovered and deleted a lot of the times, or are so stealthy that nobody really comes around, and it's just a bump fiesta (not saying that is wrong, a lot of the slower generals are often the same)
Personally, looking at that does not make me feel as if /meat/ is a stable general, and would, at least in my eyes, fail that baseline requirement to be represented as a nation. And I also hold the same opinion about /ringo/ and /ag/ for that matter, just as a side point.

I think that was about it for the nation aspect, on to the more interesting topic, the fanbase.

I feel that some people here equate the nation with the culture that it represents, when that is most definitely is not the case. The culture of /meat/ in this case, is ingrained into the board, and as a result, Vitubia, whether /meat/ as a general and a nation is here or not. Hell, we get borderline /meat/ posts in /rrat/ occasionally. /rrat/! The most comfy thread filled with nothing but oji-sans that want to take care of/breed their rat daughter has posts that I would label as /meat/!
And I should explain at this point that I am not arguing against /meat/ being part of this project in any way, what I am arguing against is them being represented as a nation on the same level as the rest, when their meta situation would prevent that, despite their best efforts.

As I have said, the culture of meatbros, their people down there on Vitubia, exists whether the nation of /meat/ does or not, because the two are not reliant on one another. I will give a personal IRL example here, Slovenes. We got our independance, the first one in our history, in 1991. However, that does not mean that our culture didn't exist before, as we trace our roots all the way back to Carantania, which came to be in the 6th century. And while I do realize this is the exact opposite of what /meat/ on Vitubia would be experiencing right now, I hope the message gets across. Even if Slovenia was dissolved as a country tommorow, the culture we have built up would still remain, perhaps for centuries to come, as is seen with some Slovenes that still uphold slovenian traditions generations after moving to the US.

So basically, what I am trying to say, while you, at least in my eyes, don't meet the requirement to be considered a nation from a meta standpoint, that does not mean that your culture, your people, your history don't exist in Vitubia. They simply have no territories they can claim as their own. So if one were to pull up a map of countries, /meat/ would not be listed there. But if one were to pull up a map of ethnic groups, /meat/ would be right there alongside others, maybe even over a wast area or on multiple different spots.

Alright, I think that's about enough for a single post, if you wanna discuss this further pg, or anyone for that matter, don't hesistate

>>39275811
No, no you are just wrong and should feel ashamed of yourself.

>>39274527
>I think the personal concept includes more information than just personality, in fact you're the one that told me the personal concepts were already distinct at birth.
yes, from birth your body had epigenetics that change the way you respond to environments, and that ultimately decides how everything will go on, but i never said their environment, and all environments they exist in will stay the same. their core concept is what pretty much never changes, but there are many levels between their core concept and whatever concept you can reliably define from birth without some kind of divination, which is why it is important to have a definition of the nation itself before you interact with the children, and then, using that definition, turn the children into transubstantiations of the nation.
that's my resolution of how you can achieve that effect, but it only works if you can find an alternate way of defining the nation. nothing about the children has any relation to their nation, and while it is a much stronger connection, heritage isn't good enough to be all that much better. if all you have is half of someone's dna you can't make much out of it at all, did you know we share 50% of our dna with vegetables? they're on perhaps the furthest branch away from us on the tree of life. and we share 99% with apes, that's why you need more than just dna to make a personal concept. maybe if you had a glyph for the concept of kin, but they would have to make sure they got a large selection of the population to make sure they could influence as much of them as possible, better for cultures with stagnant genes, and high amounts of inbreeding.
>while also including some nice symbology.
the symbology only has meaning to them, the truth is that if it worked like that, 666 would likely be a lowball number.
>The bearers are affected by a different part of the glyph spell, so the effects are slightly different.
then what purpose does it serve?
>They are burned to ashes because that's easier than completing transubstantiations for each of them.
it's easier not to speak at all, but it's the only way you'll be able to communicate an idea to someone. it's also easier to not consider the potential effects of your actions, but if you do that you might just find that there is a reason to be cautious when interacting with volatile things.
>The ashes are mixed in with chuubanite, and the chuubanite becomes imbued with the personal concepts of the children
how does this work. you would destroy the physical form of their personal concept unless you created and maintained a glyph outside of their body that defined them, but the connection would certainly be weakened, and nothing about the ashes at that point would have anything to do with their personal concept, and their personal concept would not have anything to do with their nation or their heritage. really, burning them seems like it can only possibly make things significantly harder than transubstantiation. at least with transubstantiation, you can use the same vessels to maintain the interaction, with this strategy you'll either need to lock it in somehow or repeatedly apply the effects by going through the whole thing again, /hag/anon suggested a few ways of how to lock the effect in, but none of them are sufficiently connected to the results he was trying to create for that behavior to reasonably make sense as the cause of that effect. we talked about how the connection between the physical and heavenly realms can wax and wane, thus allowing for a period of time between when a glyph is formed or broken and when the effects manifest/stop working, but that also means anything that isn't established with an existing glyph is washed away. since the star is a glyph, the assumption would be that it would be the star that preserves any given effect, but you don't have indefinite space, even in such a large region, and the star can maintain multiple glyphs. does it have multiple charges? if so how many.

>>39277078
>Then the curses and blessings should be moderated in their magnitude so as to be balance.
i think a lot more than just their magnitude has to be moderated. why can a single glyph cast and maintain multiple spells? does it have a maximum capacity? what happens if the same glyph, large as it may be, is casting the maximum number of spells it can, assuming it has a maximum? what if all of them are the same spells? if the spell is maintained even when the glyph is not, how does the heavenly realm maintain the spell? if it can be used to bless and curse indefinitely, why couldn't they just do it excessively? again, the smallest influence over a national scale would have a disproportionate effect, this isn't about magnitude, it's about the limitations of the effect itself, and how they can affect multiple nations at once. if it affected one nation at a time, required a continuous ritual, costed much more to maintain, had more explicitly defined criteria, and was generally less accessible, i would be more willing to be ok with it.

>>39276895
It's like someone threw sand in the ice cream, maybe you're into that, I respect my tongue though. If you want strawberry to get respect, get rid of all that grainy bullshit cause I'm eatin ice cream, not watchin Frankenstein.

>>39276855
>we get borderline /meat/ posts in /rrat/ occasionally. /rrat/! The most comfy thread filled with nothing but oji-sans that want to take care of/breed their rat daughter has posts that I would label as /meat/!
wait the whole cult larp is real?!

>>39277239
I don't know, I just know I see posts occasionally that make me think "huh, that is weirdly meat for some reason"

>>39276855
If we took this stance, who would rule over their lands? Would they be abandoned like a lost civilization or say numbers controls them? I am asking just out of perspective here since this can apply to indie continent a lot

>>39276855
So to start, I think on the understanding of how /vt/ is translated to Vitubia, and how cultures work points, I basically agree with you.
However, there is one base assumption that I'm not sure about, regarding borders.
Borders are a human construct. Unlike mountains and rivers, they only exist in our minds.
What are the borders in Vitubia's map? On a meta level, above anything else, I think borders define the region where the relevant writer has full dominion over the creative vision of the people that live within. A writer joins the project, and wants to write for his thread; the writer is assigned a set of borders defining his dominion. From that, political, ethnic, cultural, religious borders tend to be drawn, but this first definition is the most important one.
Then, even if the general is not stable, if they've been assigned a region of Vitubia, and it's established that the population of that region has this distinct cultural identity due to previously existing lore, I think on a meta level, the territory within those borders would still be considered to belong to said nation, for all practical intents and purposes. Even if /meat/ is not stable, it's not like all the /meat/heads just vanish; their political situation is just maybe different.
To sum up, I think this concern is best addressed through in-universe politics to represent those dynamics, than by changing the nation's status on a meta level.

>>39276855
>No country
>People still exists
Thats kinda what Founder proposed here >>39275368
if /meat/ is in dimensional exile then any real time lore involves diasporas or meat worshippers living abroad

>>39277464
>>39277503
Both of you just want to own meat. Dont you?

>>39277591
Why must everything be a dimensional timeloop or some ridiculous means of explanation that essentially would make the land where meat is impossible to enter? Why cant we keep it simpler?

>>39277464
Numbers isnt a repped nation.

>>39277749
IT'S A FANTASY SETTING WHERE JANNIES HAVE REALITY BENDING POWERS!
Why are you hesitant to have fantasy shit in a fantasy world!?

>>39277749
because it has to be complicated for them. It can't be just "Our empire was forsaken by the gods and punished for our sins by the divines with earthquakes, invasions and all forms of peril."

No, they have to believe that their threads on trash that never even get traction mean something here to throw us all into interdimensional bullshit. I don't see these points ever made for ringo or ag.

>>39277078
>yes, from birth your body had epigenetics that change the way you respond to environments, and that ultimately decides how everything will go on, but i never said their environment, and all environments they exist in will stay the same.
I don't see how this relates to the topic.
>maybe if you had a glyph for the concept of kin, but they would have to make sure they got a large selection of the population to make sure they could influence as much of them as possible, better for cultures with stagnant genes, and high amounts of inbreeding.
Yeah, let's do that then. It doesn't need to be maximally effective, it just needs to work on a conceptual level.
>the symbology only has meaning to them, the truth is that if it worked like that, 666 would likely be a lowball number.
*shrug*
>then what purpose does it serve?
They help maintain the spell.
>it's easier not to speak at all, but it's the only way you'll be able to communicate an idea to someone. it's also easier to not consider the potential effects of your actions, but if you do that you might just find that there is a reason to be cautious when interacting with volatile things.
*shrug*
>how does this work. you would destroy the physical form of their personal concept unless you created and maintained a glyph outside of their body that defined them, but the connection would certainly be weakened, and nothing about the ashes at that point would have anything to do with their personal concept, and their personal concept would not have anything to do with their nation or their heritage. really, burning them seems like it can only possibly make things significantly harder than transubstantiation. at least with transubstantiation, you can use the same vessels to maintain the interaction, with this strategy you'll either need to lock it in somehow or repeatedly apply the effects by going through the whole thing again, /hag/anon suggested a few ways of how to lock the effect in, but none of them are sufficiently connected to the results he was trying to create for that behavior to reasonably make sense as the cause of that effect. we talked about how the connection between the physical and heavenly realms can wax and wane, thus allowing for a period of time between when a glyph is formed or broken and when the effects manifest/stop working, but that also means anything that isn't established with an existing glyph is washed away. since the star is a glyph, the assumption would be that it would be the star that preserves any given effect, but you don't have indefinite space, even in such a large region, and the star can maintain multiple glyphs. does it have multiple charges? if so how many.
Can you explain what you mean by transubstantiation again?

>>39277975
BECAUSE FANTASY ON APPLIES WHEN YOU GUYS WANT IT TO APPLY!
Why are you so hypocritical and want to overcomplicate shit?

>anti-/meat/ posts
Yeah these guys arent real writers. Hide and ignore

>>39277464
>>39277503
No one does, the jannies have gated it off as they have with ringo and ag.

>>39278048
>world represents board
>a thread keeps getting destroyed by jannies
>no you musnt depict your nation as being destroyed by jannies

>>39277653
>>39278107
I'm >>39277503, did you reply the right post? I don't see how it relates.

>/meat/reps already agreed on writing their situation as janny magic
>nooo you cannot do that it has to be natural disaster or foreign occupation!
and then say this is Alice's fault

>>39277990
>Our empire was forsaken by the gods and punished for our sin
What's with this "OH NO OUR SINS, THE DIVINE BETRAYS US" narrative, jannies are not gods.

>>39278107
I am firmly against this as any option. That is just the ultimate form of laziness in my opinion: a lazy view of the situation as a whole that lacks creativity and limits worldbuilding not only for meat, but all other writers. There is a good tale to be told here, and just taking the "Nope, Jannies gate it off. You cannot enter." really disappoints me personally because I know that meatheads are extremely creative thinkers and writers, and absolutely can deliver something better than this. I have a few ideas but I will only share them if they are desired as I am not committed whatsoever of wiping them from the map meta wise whatsoever, and against it actually for a number of reasons.

To those that are complaining without making good points, with timeless responses such as "Meat gets special treatment, muh interdimensional, muh hypocrites" stfu and actually contribute some potential ideas. If you directed your hatred against meat to actually making a story about where they jannies destroy them, it could be useful!

Lmao schizotroll attempts at being a smartass only revealed that he's the anti-meat janny bootlicker

>>39278369
>>39278447
yellow woman just proved you wrong kek.

>>39278447
yellow bitch again proves herself to be the biggest hypocrite here. here you are calling what meat themselves wanted lazy, but withholding your ideas since they must be so great. Share them you fucking whore.

>>39278447
I don't think it's lazy or lacks creativity. I think the way the sealing was represented was very interesting and beautifully written, and it matches the board dynamics well. I don't think it restricts creativity in any way because one can just write about international interactions outside of the exile period.

STOP FIGHTING!

>>39278676
You have to fight me instead, then.

>>39278676
Fight FOREVAAAAAA

>>39277078
alright i am curious, you said you wanted to work with /hag/anon on making it work as closely to what he wanted. what would you change while keeping most of it intact?

>>39276855
why do the nations have to be stable? plenty of threads are unstable as you yourself pointed out, why can't they just be unstable nations? why does being unstable mean we can't be a nation? the fact that we have influence in /rrat/ proves we have influence, but what i meant by "we have influence" is that we literally have /meat/ threads up, and multiple anons who identify not just with our thread's concept, but the thread and it's community itself, speak to the existence of a shared space and tightly knit culture that remains in full force despite the efforts to silence and destroy us. we have maintained the rubble we call our own, we rebuild it and it collapses, but it is always there. not merely as a long forgotten phantom but as a living community that has a grasp, if faltering, on what is theirs. the fact that he have threads, and that we aren't spread out across multiple threads as refugees is proof that we have control over land, if a weak control over it.
>>39278009
most of these are non-answers.
>I don't see how this relates to the topic.
their personal concept has nothing to do with nationality, and it has a polluted, incomplete connection to heritage on it's own.
>It doesn't need to be maximally effective, it just needs to work on a conceptual level.
that would be fine if it didn't end up harming others who were entirely unrelated to any of it. i doubt /hag/anon is so indiscriminate that he would be fine harming innocents just to harm some of us, but who knows, maybe he is. personally, i would see it as cruel to harm innocents for the (supposed) crimes of another.
>They help maintain the spell.
how?
>Can you explain what you mean by transubstantiation again?
it's like the opposite of a metaphor. a physical representation of a concept instead of a conceptual representation of something physical. think of it like the blood and body of christ being wine and bread. the wine and bread are standins for the blood and body respectively, but it is said to have power in representing that concept.
>>39278447
i for one would be happy to hear your ideas, but it is worth noting that we have established custodians as being a thing in this setting, and that they do strange things from time to time. i'll admit that transporting the whole of /meat/ to another dimension seems like it's jumping the shark, but i always figured it was a more accurate representation of what was going on from a real world perspective compared to all the other ideas i could think about, so i differed to realism. if you have a better idea that makes the same, or more sense from that perspective, that would be great.

Are we really just gonna watch as this schizo pour oil over a forest fire?

>>39278643
I totally disagree completely, and the ultimate reason is that while sealing it may match the board dynamics, what it does for someone like me who is fasicinated by the world and the civilizations that exist in it or used to is that I feel like we are missing out on something even better than what they did. There is so much potential in stories to be told in this, that when it is turned into "no entry" just leaves the girl who loves Jules Verne sad. I want to hear about the Last of the Meatheads, and their struggle for survival in the once proud land of Maitoyl. I want to hear about Indiana Jones stories with some wanna be treasure hunter getting eaten by what is left of the meatheads. There is just so much that gets lost this way in my opinion that I feel is not good and furthermore can leave confusion. Meat, while it gets pruned, still exists about every day. In my opinion, not all of them are exiles. Some still are trying. It's that struggle that also interests me the most. I want there to be flexibility in this, perhaps selfishly!!!!

>>39277464
Now, I know jack shit about them, but I would think of it something like the indian tribes of the north america. So smaller tribes that control some territory, and may defend it from outside threats, but can't unite into a single nation, as any time something like that was attempted, a janny would swoop in and purge them all. Of course, this is just one way they could go about it, possibilities are actually endless.

>>39277503
>borders
I ain't gonna lie, my tired brain needed to read that shit like 10 times to understand it. But I think I got it. So personally, I have always viewed the borders on the map as purely political, and the writers dominion being not only the people within that region, but of all the people of their fanbase, unless they relinquish their full control to another writer, as is often the case with stories and such. That, however, is an interesting view, and worthy of consideration.
>the territory within those borders would still be considered to belong to said nation
Here I would disagree. I would say that the territory within those borders would still belong to said prople, whether they are united in a nation or not.
>Even if /meat/ is not stable, it's not like all the /meat/heads just vanish
Exactly, just like how Sana graduating and /nasa/ disappearing from the catalog didn't poof all the Sanallites out of the board, and Vitubia by extension. People will go on, nation or not, and I am not arguing that. But to consider /meat/ a stable nation that could conduct international diplomacy would be disingenious to their meta situation, where they are struggling to survive most of the time.

I hope I was clear with this and not stumble too much, coffee still has yet to kick in I'm afraid

>>39278815
Thanks, PG. I am glad to share them. I really don't think your people all got timewarped or anything. Because meat still tries just about every day to have a thread and sometimes succeeds. While your thread is no longer what it was pre crisis, there are pockets of meatheads in my opinion just trying to survive and overcome the forces of evil jannies that seek to destroy their civilization. I sort of said them here >>39278860
but I really really do want there to /meat/ fragments left in your homeland that you can interact with as a nation and furthermore wish to see the ruins of a great civilization trying to be preserved by her remaining sons who struggle against the greatest forces known in the world! It may not make perfect sense, but I think it can fit. What do you think.

>>39278860
>>39278447
Reminder that the thread being sealed thing is not Founder's creation. He literally cited ybc and tsunderia lore.
So if you do not agree with it, then it would also means that ybc lore is unacceptable

>>39279054
ugghhhhh.... i don't want to screw them over at all.... its not about that, its just my passion and selfishness perhaps...

>>39279054
/ybc/ has their thread being locked in their lore?

My opinion matters little, but I really do like what Alice is saying because it sounds really cool and fun to work with... but then again, its not my choice and if other lore is ruined then what's the point.

>>39278815
>most of these are non-answers.
I shrugged at the interlocutions that did not ask a clear question.
>their personal concept has nothing to do with nationality, and it has a polluted, incomplete connection to heritage on it's own.
Their nationality is irrelevant, and doesn't come into play. It's more about the concept of the children and how they relate to the rest of the nation through the web of kinship.
>that would be fine if it didn't end up harming others who were entirely unrelated to any of it. i doubt /hag/anon is so indiscriminate that he would be fine harming innocents just to harm some of us, but who knows, maybe he is. personally, i would see it as cruel to harm innocents for the (supposed) crimes of another.
the effects are already moderated even on the intended targets, and would be further weakened on collateral damage, I don't think it's a huge deal.
>how?
They have a glyph on them which maintains the spell. If this glyph is broken, so is the spell.
>it's like the opposite of a metaphor. a physical representation of a concept instead of a conceptual representation of something physical. think of it like the blood and body of christ being wine and bread. the wine and bread are standins for the blood and body respectively, but it is said to have power in representing that concept.
Right. The ashes are a transubstantiation of the children's personal concepts, then.
>>39278860
All those stories can be written outside of the exile period. The exile period is just what, five, seven years? It's pretty inconsequential, in the grand scheme of things.

>>39279172
>>39279098
Do you people even read /ybc/'s exile lore?! meat chose that route because they were following ybc

>>39279232
We must be on different pages then, because I am assuming this locking is permanent until meat is not under janny attack.
>>39279272
No, and I am not a very good writer for doing that I know but sometimes real life and other things cause things to be forgotten. I am sorry, i will soon enough, tomorrow.

So retconning /meat/'s thread exile idea means retconning /ybc/?
Fuck

>>39279420
I am not sure how that has anything to do with it. It really doesn't mean that all forms of Janniness can come that way.

>>39278841
Yes

>>39279490
>I am not sure how that has anything to do with it
It's the same calamity. ybc at one point went through the same thing as meat. Nonstop purges until they got a place back

im not really getting why some people are iffy about fantasy disasters in a fantasy world...

>>39279575
Ok. I must disagree here because as we all know, Jannies are unpredictable and are inconsistent. To think there is any consistency with them beyond inconsistency is a fallacy imo. We have jannies on this board who left a pomu underage nude thread, and someone posted a mori dox, so they just deleted mori's dox and left the thread up. This is WHO we are talking about. There is no logic or reason behind it.

>>39279392
>We must be on different pages then, because I am assuming this locking is permanent until meat is not under janny attack.
The story includes a whole chapter about the exile coming to an end, including an end date. I assume the exile simply represents a period of particularly intense custodian oppression in a long history of harassment.

>>39279728
I know it does, but the issue about this is that we really at the end of the day do not know if it will ever end sadly. My whole point is not that some gating is bad as much as I am not in favour of having it up for more than a few years if that make sense.

>>39279679
I repeat, theyre both going through the same treatment of jannies deleting their threads. I agree with them taking a page from /ybc/'s history as theyre the ones who made it out

>>39278815
I should clarify, just to make sure we are all on the same page. /meat/ as a nation existed. It existed for a long time. But then the janny crusade happened, and it's been reduced into what can basically be called a fallen kingdom, a mere shadow of what once was, it's people trying to survive from day to day while clinging to past glory. I AM NOT SAYING /MEAT/ SHOULD BE DELETED AS IF IT NEVER EXISTED and I hope I didn't come across as wanting that.
But the reality of the situation is, pg, and I hope that we can both agree on that, is that if you tried to make a /meat/ thread now, it would get deleted. Hell you might even catch a ban for it. Sadly, that's just how things are, on the meta level.

Ok, now to respond.
>plenty of threads are unstable as you yourself pointed out, why can't they just be unstable nations?
If you are refeering to
>(not saying that is wrong, a lot of the slower generals are often the same)
it was made as a remark to your stealth threads often becoming nothing more than bump threads, not saying that slower generals are unstable with their presence on the board. Both /nasa/ and /rrat/ often have(or had I guess) periods of nothing but bumps, but every time when we hit bump, or got bumped off, a new bread was warm and waiting for us. That is what stable board presence is. Can you say that for /meat/?
>the fact that we have influence in /rrat/ proves we have influence
>speak to the existence of a shared space and tightly knit culture that remains in full force
Exactly, and I am not saying that you don't. Your culture, what you are about, is and always was represented on the board. But even if you have that, whenever you try to collect all your lost anons in /meat/ and establish it again, it gets deleted soon, and you are back to square one. Yes, you have spirit, you wish to be all together again, to have it be like the old times when jannies weren't smiting you at every turn, but it's just not happening. They are preventing you from collecting yourselves under the flag of a /meat/ general, and the same should, in my opinion, be represented in world, as scattered groups that wish to reestablish their old nation, but just cannot because of outside intereferance.

>>39279870
Then they can ignore everything I am saying. I am not the dictator of anything here other than my own lore, and if you disagree then I agree to disagree because there isn't much of a point left to discuss then. I will state once more I completely disagree that jannies have any consistency to their actions or the way they dish out punishments both in world and on the board.

>>39279808
It seems like that's how it is in the story as is. I just checked and the exile is only 6 years. I don't think the end of the story means the Custodian attacks have ended, it would just represent, like, a stealth thread surviving for particularly long, or something. There's more than one janny, after all.

Are you guys meatreps? No? Then stop it. Let pg and meatbro answer it

>>39280010
Then it is just a misunderstanding since I operated under what this anon said
>>39278107
more so than the story and never really oppose anything it.

Also where the fuck is Hagbro?! I need my daily dose of Botan and Flare goddamit!

>>39280027
But... I'm a meatbeat.

>>39280027
>Noooooo you cannot have a civil and passionate discussion about a thread you guys all really do care about!!!!!

>>39276476
>>39276533
I do have some lactose intolerance. I can stomach frozen yogurt and hard cheese better than ice-cream. Though I'm willing to suffer for egg nog and pumpkin ice-cream double scoops.

Ngl, having civil and calm discussions is taxing on my brain. That or I'm coming down with a cold. I wanna go back to shitposting and stirring up drama...

No Alice this isnt a 'You vs the World'. This is a 'You trying to retcon other peoples works'

>>39280280
bro literally making shit up about yellow woman right now.

>>39280281
Stay strong cunt, hagbro liked you, he could come back any minute now.

If Alice has million lovers, then I'm one of them.
If Alice has one lover, then I'm THAT ONE.
If Alice has no lovers, that means I'm dead.
Now KYS NOW!!!!

>>39280314
Fuck you I have Alice-sense! I have undergone transubtantiation and /become/ Alice! I know what she thinks! I smell what she smells! I hear her in my head! She's right there in the corner taunting me! But I am now /become/ Alice! I will surpass her! I am more gaki than her!

>>39280430
Well there's a development I didn't expect. How'd she win you over from Venus?

>>39280510
kill yourself

>>39278893
I think as a practical shorthand, we equate the "writer's dominion" and the "political" borders to be the same in all cases. However I could imagine a nation where all political order has fallen apart, but the writer on a meta level is still responsible for what goes on there. For example, that would be the case for a rushia writer before it restabilized as the nazuna thread. I also agree that in general, the writer for a fanbase should have control of how they are written in foreign lands.
>>39279937
Hmm I think I understand what you're coming to better now, but could you clarify what actionable, OOC change you are suggesting? Should the area of the map marked as /meat/ be unmarked even if it it populated and written by /meat/heads? Or do you mean there should be more lore that represents how dysfunctional /meat/ is due to Custodian interventions? /meat/ is already moderately confederationalist, so it might be a surprisingly painless adjustment.
Also, here is flare.

>>39280430
ACTUAL falseflagger!!!! KILL YOURSELF!!!!!

>>39280546
kill yourself

>>39280546
>>39280563

>>39280546
Oh I plan to, don't worry. Gotta get ripe and old first before I try and pull the trigger.

>>39280552
Mark it as: dead GONE FOREVER as a famous man once said.

man I hope climeat or meatbro will be in a good mood when they wake up

>>39280203
Hagbro is gone, he was meek and as Founder said, only the strong have rights.

>>39280658
Sorry but actually it's:
DEAD.
GONE.
FOREVER.

>>39280663
>meatbro when he wakes up.

>>39280159
>Then it is just a misunderstanding since I operated under what this anon said
I think it would be an issue to have meat be sealed off for an indefinite length of time for several reasons, and I think a complete sealing wouldn't represent well the continuous attempts (with varying levels of success) to have threads. This is why I interpret the exile as a period of particularly intense /meat/ drought, not their current status quo. Founder can clarify further, but I think if that wasn't his intention he wouldn't have placed the end of the exile so close to the current year.

All of you are waiting on my downfall as we speak.

Why are so many anons here so cute?

>>39280902
Emma what is wrong with you, why do you have that image?????????

>>39280938
just a bunch of snakes, ALL OF YOU.

>>39280552
>Should the area of the map marked as /meat/ be unmarked even if it it populated and written by /meat/heads?
If we consider the borders on the map as political borders, then yes, that would be one change I would advocate for. And if a change like that went through, I would also then urge not just meatbros, but all the anons here to get together and try and make a map of ethnical groups, so that can be put in the interactive map as well. That way, while not being represented on the political border map, anyone could still gauge the extent of their cultural reach. And it would be a nice thread goal to achieve, been a while since we ALL got together.
>Or do you mean there should be more lore that represents how dysfunctional /meat/ is due to Custodian interventions?
This would also be nice, even if only because I don't think meatbros have been writing that much stuff nowadays, their presence seems kinda sparse, tho I did take a few weeks break just recently, so idk.

Also, sexo Flare, but it's just not the same ya know?
>>39280938
We just attract a lot of male(female)s

>>39280981
Just for you bby.

a you really back to shitting up the thread because the schizo made one comment while there is a proper discussion being held?

>>39278748
i want to keep the goal of the magic intact, the methods for achieving it would have to be anywhere from a bit, to a whole lot different from what it currently is. ultimately it depends on what he is willing to do, or what he thinks about, but as i have said, making each of the rituals as synonymous as possible with the intended effect is the ideal, he can have flavor rituals, but the actual magic has to be carried out according to the proper procedure. i think in terms of balancing, the star shouldn't be able to bless or curse more than one nation at the same time, but as far as a way to balance magnitude, i think it might be a good idea to make the blessing or curse more personalized, and aligned with their already existing concept so that it can't majorly alter their cultures.
if i could curse /hag/ with some kind of concept related to /uoh/ then that would weaken their thread's core concept, if i cursed them with something related but ultimately different, i could alter the development of their nation, if both of these effects were treated as the same, then no matter what i picked, it would guarantee a major change in the way they would develop, and i could rather easily use that fact to manipulate them into taking certain decisions that i know i can benefit from, or even manipulate them with. instead, i propose that it would make more sense if the less connected the concept i am cursing or blessing them with, the less impact it would have on the general, thus making it so that the more likely they are to already go in that direction, the more powerful the effects of the blessing or curse are.
note that this can emphasize negative aspects of a general's existing concept just as easily as it can emphasize positive ones and still get the full potential out of the curse or blessing, but it can't be used to completely alter the way they were already operating as a thread, and thus it can't be used to manipulate and puppeteer other cultures. this also makes sense from a conceptual realm perspective since the nation's concept is already fairly connected to the concept they are being blessed or cursed with. the more it fits, the more it sticks, so to speak. this also means there is less demand for actually defining the nation, though it is still of the utmost importance to define the nation to whatever extent you can.
recall what i said in regard to the boss concept? it is possible to define an institution by those who operate them, theoretically at least. i was not merely bringing that concept up out of nowhere. if you can define the concept of a ruler, you can define the concept of what they rule based on what systems they manage. the problem, or perhaps the benefit of such a thing is that it includes the nation beyond it's borders or heritage, the good thing is that this does not have to be the only thing that is used to define a nation, nor should it be. with this, heritage, boarders if they can be defined (would require going over to /meat/ and setting up a sort of glyph that extends to their boarders, assuming there aren't existing concepts that define such things. the use of catalognauts is also highly advisable, and might possibly be necessary for some aspects of the rituals, i think, provided we get the minutia out of the way, these methods of defining what needs to be done would help in both balancing and explaining the mechanisms of a /hag/ wmd trump-card that they might reasonably use in moderation.
i think the star might also be useful to establish the concept of geographical regions, and a nation-sized glyph is honestly an awesome idea, so i fully support them making use of and further building off of that concept, maybe have roads that extend the glyph, and that carry glyphs of their own, and organize their entire architecture off of those kinds of concepts. this has nothing to do with balancing the wmd, i just think it would be really cool.
>>39278893
>but can't unite into a single nation
>whether they are united in a nation or not.
i don't get why there is this importance in what is given the title of a nation. isn't a nation just a group of people who have dominion over a region? does it have to be official to be considered a nation? perhaps of a certain size? does their ability to interact with other nations play a role? that one i can at least understand, but at the same time, we have operatives in other nations that could reasonably act as diplomats and representatives of whatever you want to call our little sphere of influence. i wouldn't exactly describe us as disunified, though some have become refugees, or are as of yet mia, still we have our own regions that we have control over, at least until it goes away. desu, i just don't want things to change in that direction, we are just in a warzone where jannies are bombarding us and forcing us to lay low for a while. was france less of a nation under german occupation? wait, nvm, france was barely a nation to begin with, ygwim

>>39280753
meme magic is everything. kek!

>>39281050
>climeat has lost his mind
>pg is pg
>founder is on his last semester
>meatbro is going through tough times irl
and all are rapidly losing morale as they kept losing threads

>>39281050
A cultural reach map would be fun, but I feel like it would be almost identical to the political map (except it would have /meat/ on it and /nasa/, if the guys in the terminator armor count.). Unless it included overlaps, then it would be an autismproject of tremendous proportions and I'd love to see how someone pulls it off.

I for one, am very disappointed that no schizos have made a The Bitch in Yellow joke yet

>>39281337
Hug bread dogs.

>>39281337
Ganbatte foundersama! Is meatbro alright?

>>39281337
I thought you were off to sleep or wherever bread dogs go when a loaf gets moldy, I've been running into pits and potholes with all this horni city lore and I just can't find the right nipple to pierce on it.
You got any thoughts to aid my creative endeavors?

>>39281437
>>39281809
Wait a second, I linked the wrong post. What a goof.