/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>34205387
Ollie hates her fanbase and actively wanted to “change the culture” in Hololive so I wouldn’t say it’s exclusive to only HololiveEN

>>34205387
Easy money, you idiot. These spoiled rotten bitches receive a flood of money just for going live.

They make a lot of money either way
There's more social pressure to be antagonistic towards adults with different hobbies in the west

Generally westerners feel entitled to shit. Japanese have been in a stagnant economy for 40ish years, with average wage being around 30~40k after 10 years of work experience (starting is around 20k). So when they see a job that pays 300k~1mil/y, they're super grateful and very careful to not fuck it up. Also there's a long lasting culture of honor and respect in Japan, as weeby as it sounds to say. This is why the roads are clean, I can leave my phone and laptop and watch and even wallet on the street or in a cafe and come back the next day to find it there, and why I've never heard a "let me speak to the manager" except from gaijin. They used to just kill themselves when they felt they weren't living up to the standards of their peers, they take 平和 and 我慢 very seriously, not even consciously though, just naturally. Sometimes it's a bad thing too because society is really stuffy and impossible to get new ideas any momentum. But it also means aside from ayame the average levels of entitledness are very low.
inb4 weeb

>>34205878
20k? You're shitting me. How can anyone afford to live in Tokyo?

do you love your job, anon? why do you keep doing it?

>>34205387
>HoloID and JP both seem to (largely speaking) have excellent relationships with their fanbases, yet so many ENs seem to, if not right state it, heavily imply they dislike their following. Why is this?
how do you know? do you know japanese?

Look at the severe drop in english speaking fanbase quality since 2020 and you'll understand why

>>34205878
>they take 我慢 very seriously
hehe, I know that word

>>34205878
>westerners feel entitled to shit
Same point with the IDs, I don't know about their country but I'm a spec and I know how the third world is and getting payed by dollars is a pretty big deal. Like Ollie said she started giving their siblings allowance when she started getting paid.
>>34205446
Don't know about her but if she hates her fanbase like an EN she's either rich or dosen't hate them and she's just a dumb zoomer with good intentions.

>>34205894
anon isn't entirely wrong. I've lived there a few years. most stuff is cheap with the exception of electronics. they make closer to 35-40 a year 55-70 with experience.

>>34206423
>acts like ID Mori and Kronii
>OP is a retarded fag and makes excuse for the whore anyways
Kill yourself she resents her fanbase just as much as the others but EN bad

>>34205387
In their defense English fans are wacko.

>>34205387
The west has a habit of wanting to change things to suit their idea of a fair world. EN's full of self-righteous morons.

>>34206660
That's a good thing. At least better than: "well that's just how it is"

>>34205387
They have a complete and total lack of respect for their audiences and more than that they don't want to respect their audience.
The absolute correct way for any vtuber to see their audience whether they are normie-tier or if they are 100% dedicated GFE is that the audience is a customer. They are coming for a service that you are providing. they are paying for that service and if you fail to provide the service you are in breach of the transaction.
This doesn't mean a vtuber is a slave to their audience or has to personally service any individual member but there absolutely has to be a general regard that the audience came for something and their support depends on the provision of that something to them in a manner they find satisfactory.
Provision of a quality product depends entirely on your respect for your customer
If you hate cripples you shouldn't manufacture wheelchairs as at some point you're going to think to yourself 'fuck those legless assholes I'm cutting quality by 10% so I can have better profit margins" if you love the lame you'll have a personal obligation to maintain a high standard for your product.
To be good in any industry you need to want to do right by your customers if you don't want to like the people who have a need for your product your not going to like making the product for them.
>>34205599
This is the heart of the issue and to quote a bible "the love of money is the root of all evil". There are definitely vtubers who want to try and make cash off of people they do not like not Even at the level of "I hate these people but I have the skillset to provide this service at a high level despite my distaste for it" there would be a mercenary intention but still mutually beneficial as the quality of the product remains high despite other factors. That is to say the customer still gets what they paid for. The mediocre cash grabbers are actually running a scam operation where they produce an entirely dissatisfactory service for the sole purpose of fleecing their customers.

That's why it's wrong for a vtuber to do what they want even if their audience isn't on board with it. It's actually an unethical business practice. They are genuinely doing something wrong, it is anti-consumer behavior and if it were a major corporation doing it people would see it for what it is.

>>34205894
Most people don't. They live in bed towns which are generally 1-2 hours out from central Tokyo by train. Otherwise you do like me and live central in a 20sqm room and watch around half your salary disappear every month. Then you cope by watching vtubers all the time. And people wonder why no one has kids in Japan, it's very simple actually. Cant afford it.

>>34206598
Well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not unconsciously hating her when I don't know how she acts or watches her streams. Next time I'll make sure to believe everything that /vt/ says about a chuuba and never have critical thinking again!

>>34206530
I'm talking in current yen rates and starter salary. Comes out to 20-25k USD/y. Also the statistical average is raised a lot by ojisan who don't work but somehow get big salary. My joushi is ex-mitsubishi ginkou and for the most part hasn't done any work in the past few years (that I've seen) but he makes 250k/y. Most intensive thing I've seen him do is make a report on BS/PL of our group company, but that was done in like a few hours and any one of us could do it. We call this天下り and it raises statistical averages even if most normal people don't make much

>>34206874
This only gets reinforced by actual parasocial sycophants. They'll tell you that you shouldn't consider them anything but entertainers, but the moment anyone tries to treat them as service providers and demand a certain quality of whatever service is being sold, they're shunned. It's bizarre.
And I'm not even talking about forced-positivity hugboxes, even this shithole does it.

>>34206874
This post sums up why I switched to watching a 3view who loves her audience. It's the inherent difference in quality that comes from someone who wants to do right by the people who watch her, whether they donate or not, and someone who's only interested in fattening their wallet while putting in as little work as required by their contract.

>>34206874
you know if you don't like a vtuber's content you can stop paying them, right? how fucking infantilized are you when you think the government should be stepping in to protect you from your own horrible financial choices? this is pathetic. you're a fucking adult baby. i really am sad for your family.

>>34205387
Unironically, check /pol/, you are bound to get an answer.

>>34207318
I also like to read words that aren't there and then respond to them.

>>34207318
stop larping as a redditor, it's not funny

>>34207318
literally nowhere did he say that the government should step in, just that the hypocrisy of "it's ok when these uwu cute anime girls do it" is funny. take meds, psycho

>>34207367
>you are in breach of the transaction.
>a scam operation
>It's actually an unethical business practice. They are genuinely doing something wrong
big daddy federal government needs to protect me from women on youtube

>>34207318
good b8, I give it 85 points. Here's your obligatory (you)

>>34207453
now show me where he said the government needs to do something about it

It feels like the only thing I can do to provide any value to my oshi's is to discretely drop all my money onto her, then discretely kill myself in some isolated place where no one will find me. I'm just a piece of shit for feeling connected to them. I should've know I was just pawn. There's no connecting to anyone.

>>34205387
The strangest attitude I see from EN is them continually doing things to prevent chat interaction because it makes the game "less fun" for them. Some of them like Mori and Ame choose to do things specifically out of spite for their viewers. Shouldn't their focus be on being entertaining and not having fun personally? It is their job after all and jobs are rarely fun but you gotta do what you're paid to do.

>>34207497
Become your own oshi. Live a better life and simultaneously improve your oshis life. When your oshi is grateful to you, you will be grateful to yourself. The best thing you can do for your future oshi is to presently recognize you are your own future oshi. Your oshi will adore you for this. Trust your oshi who believes the current past you will oshify thyself. Don't you want your oshi's trust? Do it now. For your oshi.

>>34207531
I agree with the general sentiment, but a lot of people watch playthroughs because they want to see the streamer having a good time with a game they like or are interested in. Not sure if that makes for a majority of the audience, but if it does, prioritizng their fun is in fact thinking about the quality of the content.
It's not like a game reviewer in that enduring garbage to tell people it's garbage is literally his job. If a streamer is clearly hating everything about the game and doing it out of a sense of obligation, people will stop watching.
So for example I don't give a shit about story spoilers, I just really don't care about stories in videogames in general, but if I was streaming, I would still ask people to not spoil, because viewers want to see your first reaction to key story moments.

>>34205878
Rare informed post in /vt/

>>34207486
did you know that scams are illegal?

>>34206874
> it is anti-consumer behavior and if it were a major corporation doing it people would see it for what it is.
lmao. Major corporations do this all the time and get away with it. The whole system is basically built upon ripping off the costumer.
See for example the tabacco industry, the fast food industry, planned obsolescence, cars as services, etc.
Major corporations try and fuck their customers at every turn.

>>34205387
HERE COMES THE MONEY
MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY

>>34206918
I find this hilarious desu. Just how much abuse can you take befor you do something?

>>34205387
EN has been a mess as of late. I have no clue but I have a feeling its from people either being in college, having jobs, or just not having the time to keep watching a vtuber. its also just tougher for one to watch streams if they do them at 1am or 10pm when someone is wanting to sleep. just my two cents

>>34207531
that's based though. Fuck backseaters.

>>34206874
The problem with the typical Western vtuber is that doing what you're talking about requires them to acknowledge what about them makes them a product.
With a lot of male streamers I tune in to, or watch the vids of, they're skilled at the game, analytical, funny, etc. But with basically every female vtuber I've seen, the only reason to watch them is because a cute girl is on screen.
To acknowledge their customers are there, and should be respected, fundamentally requires acknowledging the only product they offer to the audience is their cuteness.

regardless of how immature or entitled, or whatever the girls are, I can see how someone wouldn't want to acknowledge that their continued success is only because lonely guys like looking at cute girls being cute. It robs you of any self worth, if you're deeply entrenched in the industry.
That is, however, also rooted in thinking there's a problem with amassing an audience because you're a cute girl. Which would only be the case if you had no self awareness, and deluded yourself over why people watch you. I've only really seen one female vtuber I find genuinely entertaining, and it's because she plays what you'd find on GOG. She respects her viewers, does community interaction with them, does her best to put on a good show, constantly playing new games to her and getting out of her comfort zone.
She has around 30 ccv.

What sells in this industry are pretty girls, who appeal to lonely guys. If you can be comfortable with doing that, then you'll be fine. If you're not then you're basically just looking at the gachikoi/unicorns as a paycheck, which is pretty scummy imo since the girls doing this the most, also are probably the biggest in denial of why people even watch them to begin with.

But I digress. The tldr is that insecure midwit girls want to pretend they're genuinely mentally engaging, and aren't entertaining because they're cute. The entire industry is pretty fucking bad if you ask me

>>34207882
EN only got off the ground because it launched in 2020 and everyone was unemployed living with their parents locked inside with nothing to do all day. Everyone was temporarily rendered a NEET faggot and so the conditions were perfect for holoEN to launch successfully.

>>34207842
I ask myself that everyday peko

>>34205387
$$$$$$ and yet they cant suck it up and play along for that easy six figure income, they want to have their cake and eat it too, etc... etc.. lots of western women are extremely entitled, even if given pretty much the best job a young woman could ask for (that probably wont require fucking old men to move up in the company) they still feel like they deserve more despite being at the top 1%. I guess asian women are different, the ones born and raise in asia understand the hustle and will go along and play pretend no matter how degrading, and it shouldnt even be an issue too cause of the vtuber avatar and being comfy at home 99% of the time

>>34208030
and now you're seeing what happens when everyone can come back to working and having a life, you don't have the same interest for vtubers. you're losing ground in a market thats also flooded with way more options.

>>34207679
That doean't seem to hold in cases like when Moris chat was telling her the rest of the Holomems were doing end of season Rust photos and she just ended the stream instead out of spite, rather than going and joining them on stream. Or when she ended Henry Stickmin without showing the Jojo scene and most of her viewers were there to see her reaction to that.

>>34208030
And it shows with EN2; 2 (formerly 3) voids of personality/charisma, an "ASMRtist," and the one who joined so she could maybe fuck a StarsJP. Might as well be a fucking retirement home. This is normally where I'd end the post by saying I can't wait to see how shit EN3 will be but I legitimately do not care about EN branches anymore. The bottom of the barrel has been scraped more times than the womb of a woman at a pro-abortion rally.

>>34207257
I agree. I personally only see vtubers as entertainers, but I will defend unicorns and gachikois down to the very last schizopost, because they're the ones who make the rules, and cultivate the unpozzed environment we all enjoy

>>34205387
The real question is why are EN audiences just as self-entitled as the streamer they are watching?
>My streamer hates me because she's doing something I don't like
>I go to this board to cry about it
>JP and ID love their fans so much and I don't even know half of what they're saying
>I go to this board to kneel for them.

>>34206918
sounds like nyc

>>34207929
I definitely see your point, but I feel like they need to give their audience a little more credit, in a weird way. The audience is using the cute girls being cute to cope with the rest of their lives being garbage, to cope with working 12 hours a day on a job they hate, they do it "for their idol", they look forward to her achieving her milestones, they cheer her on as she accomplishes new things thanks to their support, and so on.
They kind of live through their idol, as they see that the new expensive MV was only possible in part due to their superchat and membership. As they see her opening her heart to her members in mengen streams.
And they're all extremely aware of this, which is where giving them more credit comes in. They know they are pathetic, and they're ok with it, because their idol makes it better for them. Is healing the souls of a bunch of retards who couldn't achieve much in life but can help you achieve any creativity-inclined dream you may have such a bad existence?
That ties into why hags are the best chuubas, they know hardship, they don't see what's bad about being cute for the people allowing them to have a much more enjoyable life than the soulless corporate grind they were used to. The ones who graduate from high school right into stardom don't know struggle. They'll see this dichotomy you're presenting between self worth and success, unaware that in the real world you'll most likely have neither.

>>34208348
Because without an audience these bitches would be back at their dead-end minimum wage jobs.

>>34208307
Someone gets it. Gachikoi are fine because vtubers who pander to gachikoi are better entertainers than vtubers who pander to twitter trannies.

>>34208139
She's an insecure bitch, dude.
I can't tell you why she is, but her behaviour really is that easy to sum up. She's got a chip on her shoulder, and in turn is pretty weak to people pointing out anything she's insecure over.
It's why she sabotaged a group photo out of pure spite, dragging her coworkers in to personal drama. Chat said something that hurt her, albeit for a selfish petty reason, so she wanted to hurt everyone around her by ruining what they came for.

If you need an irl analogy it's like a girl leaving her own birthday party, in a huff, because someone made a joke about her

>>34208365
NYC is like "the homeless guy next to me on the train smells like piss and whiskey, and there's 10-12 yuppies near me going by the PRET to get overpriced coffee", and i live in a shoebox in bedstuy that used to be a ghetto. NYC is absolute hell and I want out

>>34208348
>Wow you want a burger without pickles just because you said no pickles? Entitled much
It's not entitled to ask someone to be professional and do their job properly...

>>34207929
>because lonely guys like looking at cute girls being cute. It robs you of any self worth,
This is true
>What sells in this industry are pretty girls, who appeal to lonely guys
How can you rationalize this in a way that saves your ego? At this point you may as well be a pornstar.
I think Japanese can do it because they recognise women as inferior.

>>34208399
Despite all her success Mori is a sad, petty, spiteful woman who can't get over being bullied in high school. Very sad.

>>34208384
That doesn't give you any right to tell them to pander to a certain demographic specifically. If they wanted to do that they would have stuck to it till they retire but if they want to change their content because it's burning them out let em do it. It's not because your streamer hates you

>>34208451
You can ask someone to be professional but you don't backseat someone how to stream. Have you even tried it? I don't stream so I don't know. I only expect them to be good at OpSec and not dox themselves like idiots.

>>34208606
People have every right to complain about something they don't like. Whether or not anything about it changes is a separate matter entirely. You're not going to get me to argue that silencing certain types of speech is a good thing simply because it might inconvenience me to see the same bland shitpost thread every day for weeks.

>>34208757
>People have every right to complain about something they don't like
yes they do have a right, but when you bitch about the shit goslings say, then its retarded. amelia did the right thing in my mind

>>34208753
Backseating is an unavoidable part of streaming to an audience. It's like choosing to be a plumber and not expecting to get shit on you every once in a while

>>34208383
>Is healing the souls of a bunch of retards who couldn't achieve much in life but can help you achieve any creativity-inclined dream you may have such a bad existence?

Nah. I live vicariously through my OC stories about heroes, and shit, to cope with my depression and crippling cocktail of mental issues.
And people have liked what I make, so when I found out I enjoy programming, a part of the reason I even started making a game is because I wanted to give people something they could fire up to play and have the screen "put on a good show."

I draw the line at any form of possessiveness from a fan, towards the oshi/idol/whatever, but enjoying a parasocial stream is doing more good than harm to them. I speak from experience, like, Internet content isn't a substitute for real life, but it also isn't an evil thing either. Half the reason I even got my act together enough to turn my life around as much as I have, is because of some pajeet psychiatrist streamer

I think it boils down to entitlement, on the worst girls cases. Like you touched on, they lack the weight of crushing hardship in their behaviors, that hag tubers have

>>34207735
Did you know that people have used the word scam for things that don't legally qualify as scams for decades?

>>34207453
Yes. All business should be regulated. Look at how disastrous allowing Silicon Valley to operate without oversight has been to the entire human race

>>34209121
If anything GFE vtubers are more of a scam than vwhores.

>>34205387
>Western: I'll do anything I want.
>Japan: I'll do what I'm supposed to do.
It's not only about /vt/. It's a social difference.

>>34209284
Only if you think cabaret clubs are a scam as well. The customer goes in knowing exactly what they pay for, the illusion of intimacy and a relationship. The only people who have a problem with it are ugly women who know they can't compete and failed normalfags who feel embarrassed to tell people they watch VTubers because GFEtubers exist.

>>34209287
And yet western militaries have BTFO'd eastern armies for centuries now.
Most technological innovations come from the west too.
The only thing easterners have managed to do succesfully is copying and mass producing.

>>34208030
>>34208094
At the same time this is happening you have the talents alienating their core fanbases for neurotypicals. See: Ame, Kronii. This is a recipe for disaster.

>>34209287
>為すべきことを、為すのです
that's a major theme in Sekiro, good game

>>34208466
>At this point you may as well be a pornstar.
I will never understand why people think it's wrong to want to be liked by as many other people as possible
I'd much rather be that than somebody who doesn't care what other people think

>>34209465
>talents alienating their core fanbases for neurotypicals.
for ame, i think its still justified but kronii is fucked. she's gonna see a decline in a few more weeks or so

>>34206838
Another Commodore Perry fan, I see.

>>34209449
So why do your vtubers suck so bad?

>>34209449
And yet the west lost the financial war years ago as its properties and infrastructure are bought up and out by the Chinese government. But yeah, you sure are threatening with those guns that won't fire without Israel's say-so lol.

>>34205894
>be low brithrate
>Japan need immigrants asap
No it's not. Japan don't have kids because they're too poor to have kids.
How the hell minimum wage immigrants can solve birthrate issue there ? lmao

>>34209414
>The customer goes in knowing exactly what they pay for,
Did you miss all the posters in here that unironically believe the vtuber is their girlfriend? That actually believe these girls are virgins ?

>>34209552
>How the hell minimum wage immigrants can solve birthrate issue there ? lmao
Rape, mostly.

>>34208466
You don't.

But that doesn't mean they have to keep being that, either. They can keep their appeal, while simultaneously branching out in to other stuff.
People like watching people learn things and overcome challenges, maybe one of the EN Girls could pick up a guitar, and stream their attempts at one of those games that uses the mic to teach you it, or something.
You can very easily find ways to marry both the appeal of being cute, and having self worth through earnest content.
Keep a consistent tone of encouragement to your fans, like
>I'm struggling to even pluck the strings on this, but I'm persisting anyway, and that means you can keep going at whatever it is you're trying to do too

And I'm just some guy spitballing, here. The point is that if you start to have a bit of empathy for people, and where they're coming from, you can understand there are ways to have your main appeal being a cute girl act, while still finding worth in yourself and what you do with that act, by actively trying to make their lives better, even if only a bit.


This example feels pretty unlikely, though. I've yet to find a vtuber with enough self awareness to actively encourage her chat to have faith in themselves, instead of very clearly look down on them if you've been around the block a bit and understand the meaning behind people's actions

>>34206982
Nta, I get what you mean. I literally found my oshi because people wouldn’t stop shitposting and making baits, and I was so fed up with not getting any proof of any rrats that I watched her myself.
But in this case, it’s mostly accurate. Ollie is pretty similar to EN in this context.

>>34209566
Oh, shit, I didn't know we were treating /vt/ as the be-all, end-all instead of a microcosm of VTuber discussion. Never mind, you're right, even though literally nobody in here has said anything about a VTuber being their girlfriend or virginity, you're definitely right.

>>34209449
>yet killing themselves by woke culture
I'll grad I'm free from that shit.

>>34209524
lmao. They can literally just take them away, like they are doing with all the russian oligarchs properties right now.

>>34207189
For any other anons reading this, what this guy says is true. They’ll hire someone who was a top executive at a big company or a former government minister because Japan’s economy basically works through connections and proving yourself trustworthy of not pissing people off through unofficial agreements and “understandings”, which a former big boss at a trading company or a METI bigwig would know about, but outsiders wouldn’t.

>>34209654
They constantly say it. Just go to the catalogue and look at any thread discussing male collabs and you will see even more retarded beliefs.

Racist generalization thread.

>>34209790
So now we've gone from "in here" to "the catalogue." Interesting. With the goalpost be moving anymore tonight?

>>34209661
>le woke boogeyman.
"wookeism" has literally never affected my life in any way. And I bet it hasn't affected your life either.

>>34209850

>>34208139
Mori is uniquely bad at this.

>>34209866
in here as in /vt/ fucking retard.

>>34207531
And remember, pointing out that doing actions to spite your fans is not fun for the fans just means you hate women and don't have sex!

>>34205446
Ollie's a dumb zoomer who wears her heart on her sleeve. She made some mistakes, got pumped and dumped by e celebs early on, and is now a full on idolfag.

>>34209939
Like a woman wanting a stable relationship and a good man after she's already become a single mother. Worthless.

>>34209465
I feel that it is more of them doing self harm than having agenda. They hate themselves after all.
For the rest of HoloEN I think they just despise their audiences. With exception of Kiara, but she is a schizo

>>34209485
>want to be liked by as many other people as possible
Because the people that want this are usually narcissitic.
Pandering is something pretty gross to wtiness.

>>34209607
that just sounds like cope though. Nobody would care about an ugly guy trying to play guitar.

>>34209607
Unironically, Pippa is like that. Her personality might not be to everyone’s liking, but she wouldn’t be inclining and an easy choice for bait if people didn’t genuinely like her and start following her.
Like, she was such a hiki that her bedroom was filled with mold and she was vomiting into a drawer she pulled out and put by her pillow. She literally made her fans do an anti-suicide pact with her.

>>34205387
They want the success but none of the responsibility. What is it you don't understand?

American corporations treat their customers like Japanese corporations treat their employees.
American corporate employees adopt management's abusive attitude because it makes them feel powerful.
Yadda yadda tadda, Mori Ame Kronii.

>>34210066
Both extremes are unhealthy. Obviously you shouldn't let everything other people say affect you, but being completely indifferent to the feelings of others will spell disaster for anyone down the line.
It's best to strive for being likeable because you're genuinely nice, but also being willing to put your foot down if someone is trying to take advantage of you

>>34210030
why? what's wrong with what ollie did?

>>34209284
>>34209414
GFE is a retarded word
Learn to find the GFE chuubas mentally ill enough to care for their hivemind

>>34206874
based and 100% correct
but this also comes with a caveat that, if a business is changing into something the customer does not like and there are alternatives that exist, the customer has all the power to take his money and viewership elsewhere.
Threatening Coca Cola employees because they changed the formula is a retarded thing to do, just go drink Pepsi.

>>34210220
why would I want that?

>>34207318
>you think the government should be stepping in to protect you
wrong quote? or just strawmanning?

>>34210151
So?
Is your life perfect? Do you enjoy every part of your existence? Do you enjoy it if your dog dies?
Coping is fine, it's just another way to refer to acceptance that bad shit happens to good people. Delusion is where it gets harmful, when you're in outright denial of your life

>>34210308
A lot of people here have that kind of mentallity: "Cover should ban this", "Cover should fire them", etc.

>>34210066
Narcissism has become a buzz word at this point
The default state of a healthy person is to desire involvement in the affairs of anybody they encounter, people are just brain damaged and take SSRIs to try and cope with it

>>34210283
Because anon is an idiot and thinks that respecting your audience means pretending to be in love with them. No, they just have to make good content and at least take the audience’s preferences into consideration when deciding what to stream.

>>34210030
Applying real life single mothers to virtual anime avatars is delusional, except for the one that actual is a single mother. That's fine then.

>>34210253
Threatening, yes. But voicing your discontent directly to Coca-Cola would be a perfectly valid reaction to the formula changing, and the direct parallel of emailing Cover to complain about the talents actually feels like an exaggeration and just giving direct feedback to the talents themselves is more reasonable. I don't think this analogy works very well.

>>34207929
They should realize that they're entertainers and take the art of entertaining seriously.

It feels like a lot of these girls are under the impression that JUST B URSELF is good quality. Even if they're not good entertainers it doesn't mean they shouldn't TRY, which is entertaining in itself.

>>34210219
Learning from your mistakes only after you've been dealt harsh consequences and trying to get back into people's good graces by saying what they want to hear is loathsome behavior.

>>34205599
you will never be a yame

>>34210066
>Pandering is something pretty gross to wtiness.
Not really, but then again I'm not a retard who wants a steak, asks for a steak, gets served a steak, and then complains that someone had the audacity to give me the steak I asked for.

>>34208757
I'm not saying you can't complain about it but if you're going to stir up shit and cause trouble for the streamer because of your complaint, you're to blame.

>>34210216
No it won't. Diogenes had nothing but contempt for the opinions of others and nothing bad happened to him, because he was mentally prepared for death.
>It's best to strive for being likeable because you're genuinely nice, but also being willing to put your foot down if someone is trying to take advantage of you
No it isn't, wanting to be liked is nothing but vanity. If you live in Nazi germany. Should you affect to be a Nazi just to be liked?

>>34205387
Western streamer culture.
Anything more than occasionally reading a comment in a deadpan voice is seen as parasocial, which is a big no no in the west.

>>34208466
JPs would also be affected by this but they have the "idol" label, which frames their jobs with a much higher standard(leading to better behavior) while also elevating their self worth (I'm not an escort, I'm an idol!).
EN of course, does not have this, and is actively against it. Hence the screeching against "muh idol culture".

>>34210391
>The default state of a healthy person is to desire involvement in the affairs of anybody they encounter,
No. I literally don't care about the affairs of 99% of the people I encounter. And I don't really have much interest in the remaining 1% either.
What you feel is not normal.

>>34210490
Apex ZomWhore can cope at the bottom of the barrel with her shit VOD views. With how much crying she does in member streams I can only imagine how it feels to lose all her Whorementum changing the industry and being shit at Apex

>>34210490
why?

>>34210747
Besides it being disingenuous and behavior motivated by the fear of failure rather than actual introspection causing you to realize you were wrong?

>>34210479
“Just be yourself” is theoretically sound advice, but hard to do correctly. There’s a reason that “Know thyself” was the motto of the Delphian oracles. Being yourself should ideally mean knowing what a better version of yourself is like and working towards that, as opposed to thinking that what someone else is all about is that better version of you.
Being an asshole under the guise of “being yourself” either means you don’t actually know yourself at all because you don’t realize why you’re being an asshole, or it means you were always destined to hate this job and be miserable, because you’re an asshole.

>>34205387
rooshaaaaaa

>>34210779
why is it disingenuous to learn from your mistakes?

>>34210747
NTA but she doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong. She’s just upset that she’s noticeably declined and now that something is hurting her metrics and bottom line does she want to apologize or be better?

As if, whore.

>>34210801
Are you a fucking idiot or just illiterate?

>>34210649
Idol is nothing but a thin veneer.
The job of an idol and the job of a pornstar is essentially the same.

>>34210747
You know that whole thing about trust taking years to build but seconds to destroy?

>>34210593
Being disliked isn't a virtue, dude, despite what your may be telling yourself to deal with why people don't like you outside of here. It's fine to be disliked because of integrity, but only fools seek scorn for validation

>>34210834
>>34210824
do you have any proof that she's disingenuous or was it revealed to you in a drem?

>>34209939
She had so many people trying to warn her, but she still insisted on charging out and only turned back after her fanbase was already burned

>>34210896
nice strawman.

>>34210897
Other than her behavior doing a convenient little 180 to appeal to everyone she pushed away early on while talking about how she has the lowest views in ID despite her high sub count?

>>34210920
no she didn't. Who tried ?

>>34210897
Why does it matter? It’s not our job to give vtubers a chance, it’s a vtuber’s job to make people want to watch them.

>>34210593
If I was in Nazi Germany I would've become a Nazi just for the uniform.

>>34210966
>her behavior doing a convenient little 180
Things that never happened

there's an actual honest to god zombrap in here lmao

>>34211002
It matters because you have to justify what you say.

>>34208383
Amouranth (the biggest female streamer in the world) knows exactly what she's selling.

>>34210989
Half her damn early fanbase, management, as well as Reine. Iirc Moona and Kiara also tried to dissuade her a bit

>>34211013
Based and /fa/ pilled

>>34208466
Kawaii culture is celebrated at all levels of society, so it isn't really degrading.

>>34208383
that's the problem with coping, when your little fantasy coping mechanism fails your life crumbles.
And you have no one but yourself to blame. It's not the vtuber fault that you put her in a pedestal, it's not her fault you were too much of a coward to deal with your problems and accept your reality.

>>34211138
do you have proof of any of this? Because I sure as hell don't remember them ever telling her any of this on stream.

>>34208606
I mean, a lot of times it is. Yes, she can do whatever she wants with her content and as customers we can call it out as a dumbass business move.

>>34211222
Not really. When your oshi graduates or shits the bed in some other way, you'll feel bad for a while, then you find a new oshi.
Who do you think passes down the saying "treasure your oshi while you still can" to the newfags if you assume their life crumbles and they fuck off forever once they lose their idol?

>>34207531
You're glossing over the fact that a lot of this chat interaction they're preventing is backseating.

>>34211391
That means they are just replaceable. Why would she be motivated to improve for her fans or whatever when they can just find a new Oshi? That means antagonizing them is a victimless crime.

>>34211267
I don't have her membership now, but iirc ~May 2021
The Kiara part might be from a dream though, I admit

>>34211563
>That means they are just replaceable.
Clearly not considering the most antagonistic ENs have been on a downward trend in regards to CCV. But I'm sure you'll have some cope response for that as well.

>>34210570
So, like when I give a business a shit rating on Better Business Bureau. I'm just causing unnecessary drama for the business?

>>34209877
I see you have never had a non-JP related hobby for the past 10 years

>>34211563
So that they're not replaced? I don't understand, weren't you against putting them in pedestals just a second ago? Now you're against having standards and expecting the idol to deliver on their idol reps?
Sounds kinda parasocial to me, not gonna lie. You should treat them as entertainers, mate.

>>34211609
The idols are replaceable.

>>34211703
What the hell are you talking about?

>>34211692
That's diffffffferent.
>How?
It just iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.

>>34208830
That's subjective. Some of her customers complained others agreed with her.

>>34208383
>healing the souls of a bunch of retards
Healing them from what? Not from economic explotation and social isolation. Sounds like they are healing them the same way a bottle of Whiskey, and making a pretty buck too.

>>34211852
Not only did they agreed, they encourage it.

>>34209607
>This example feels pretty unlikely, though. I've yet to find a vtuber with enough self awareness to actively encourage her chat to have faith in themselves
I assume you've never watched Gura

>>34211998
He did it, anon figured out the entertainment industry. We should just get rid of it so we can focus all of our efforts on work, right, comrade?

>>34205387
Grifters.

>>34209877
>"wookeism" has literally never affected my life in any way. And I bet it hasn't affected your life either.
Who the fuck gave this caveman a computer and taught him how to type?

>>34210843
does not matter how thin it is, if it allows the talent to have the aforementioned self worth.

>>34211998
Sure, yeah. Drugs, gambling, addictions in general and idols. Seems like a pretty easy pick for "the lesser evil". You make it seem like coping with drugs is a far more rare occurance than it really is. My mother was an achoholic, boy do I wish she used retarded japanese girls dancing on stage to cope instead. Would have make life a lot easier growing up.

>>34212055
Nice strawman. Not all entertainment is escapist rubbish. And even among escapist entertainment most of it doesn't sink so low as to help the audience escape from "tfw no gf".

>>34211563
>That means they are just replaceable
My dog died at age 14 in 2017. Never had another pet since, both out of respect for her and because her death scarred me a little bit and I'm a bit afraid to go through it once again (about 2 years of mammary cancer), but at this point even I am starting to feel the need to get a new one. I don't like the idea to "replace" her, but at some point what else can you do when she's not there anymore? If even something like that can be replaced, why would replacing your oshi be any more of an issue?

>>34212298
You're on the eceleb board, my dude, have some self awareness. All of what would count as "on topic" for this board is escapist rubbish. Don't try to take a moral high ground on this.

>>34207929
>But with basically every female vtuber I've seen, the only reason to watch them is because a cute girl is on screen.
Sounds like you only watch EN Vtubers then.
Korone, Pekora, Subaru etc. can make any game into quality entertainment by adding a bit of their soul into it. Botan, Aqua, Fubuki etc. are super good at the games they play (which admittedly might not be games you enjoy watching).

>>34211703
Yup, the biggest problem in Hololive isn't the chuubas, but the fans. If the fans had standards Ayame would've been out of a job two years ago.

>>34212298
>doesn't sink so low
people have different standards.
just because you don't like the business model or the culture doesn't mean it's somehow morally abhorrent.
And if you don't like the model for moral reasons, your opinion is worthless because you're an outsider.

>>34205387
Western women are the problem. To them a bad day is that they didn't get the exact job they want but still got a job in the company. It's why people like Kronii say shit like "don't you have female friends?" 100% serious to a bunch of lonely men that have never touched a womans hand before. They just can't imagine a world where things would be so bad.

>>34212298
>most of it doesn't sink so low as to help the audience escape from "tfw no gf"
Most modern entertainment is literally a replacement for friends and actual relationships you faggot.

>>34211998
Is Whiskey that entertaining?

>>34212298
All entertainment exists to distract you from life’s ails. Cope, retard.

>>34212419
that's why EN are generally bad.
they don't have any talent other than having cute avatar.

>>34212180
He isn't wrong. Wookiees have never bothered me either.

>>34209449
>Most technological innovations come from the west too.
did you miss the entire 80's?

>>34210370
pretty sure that's just regular threadly shitposting, not sure why you think actual fans have anywhere near that opinion.
More support for certain chuubas perhaps (Irys and ENs come to mind) but nothing about firing them or controlling them more.

>>34211701
I like music, and reading.

>>34212716
>the fur
>the blood
>the screams
>the goddamned screams
Pray that they never do.

>>34212231
>Idol worship is better than heroin
Ah ok.

>>34212598
Excuse them for not realizing their audience are the dregs of society and that most of their fans would have been rightfully shunned from the tribe and left to die in the cold if they had been born before civilization.

>>34212951
There's a meme circulating here about how Hololive taught them that women must be regulated and controlled by men.

>>34213932
As opposed to the women whose only redeeming quality and way to survive above the poverty line is entertaining those dregs and hoping they're feeling charitable, otherwise it's back to that single-bedroom apartment and eating one TV dinner for all three meals in a day.

>>34211391
>Not really. When your oshi graduates or shits the bed in some other way, you'll feel bad for a while, then you find a new oshi.
Look at this tourist faggot.

>>34212632
No. Dostoevsky explored human ailments instead of treating his audience like emotionally stunted manchildren.

>>34214175
>caring about the ramblings of a gambling addict
I bet you listen to gachafags too lol

>>34213742
Opium of the masses

>>34214239
No, that would be alcohol.

>>34209877
Apart from pretty much every western form of media being completely shit and overrun with blacks and trannies being forced in everywhere?

>>34209877
Dem rangs oh dem rangs of powah

>>34214380
I like music and classic literature. And neither of them have been overrun. Furthermore, I don't dislike blacks and trannies.

>>34207929
>the only reason to watch them is because a cute girl is on screen
What other use do women have? Call me misogynist but the reality is that women are inferior to men at every single thing and their only relevancy is their pussy. If it wasn't because men were complete horndogs women would be ostracized worse than niggers because they serve no purpose other than looking good for men. That is their one and only value.

>>34213932
But they are fine with taking their money, playing GFE and selling sex merch to them? Then they have the guts to tell these people they aren't real fans and that they will be talking to males after a year or two of not doing so? These women are worse dregs than the men if thats true.

>>34205387
Western streamers in general treat hating their fans as a fucking sport. It's not exclusive to vtubers. I dunno why, but almost every western streamer has a weird phase where they become actively hostile to their own fans and viewers.

>>34215169
Western fans tend to behave differently from Japanese fans, too, though. I give a pass for an occasional outburst when an audience gets annoying, because sometimes people make you mad.
None of what I said really applies to the main subjects of this thread, though.

>>34205878
So much bullshit in one post

Now now. Let's not forget that the western fandom is not nearly as uniform as the JP fandom.

A large portion of the fans are against idol culture, and a minority of them even shame the vtuber for following it.

This puts western vtubers in a tight spot were they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

>>34213932
Surely if they're supposed to be treating their fans with contempt like they would have been treated pre-civilisation, they should also acknowledge that they would have been nothing but subservient holes given over to a man to fuck babies into as soon as they hit puberty?

>>34215637
Women had a more prominent role in pre-agrarian society.
The subjugation of women was a consequence of agriculture.

>>34205387
the funniest thing will be when they leave hololive bc they want to be themselves and fleshtube or indie and it will hit them like a nuclear bomb that they are pretty much all terrible at streaming...gonna be biblical, watching callis twitch streams should be capital punishment.

>>34217247
Reminder that Mori said shea such an expert on streaming now she could teach a class on it

>>34217247
I look forward to when it happens to Mori. She's going to fall from grace as gracefully as fatman hitting Japan.

>>34206423
>I don't know about ID, but same with them, they're entitled
>I don't know about ID
>I don't know
Yeah, shut up

>>34209552
>oh we can't afford kids
Meanwhile poverty fags are outbreeding you 5:1.

>>34205878
It's the fault of conservatives in the west pushing the 'I got mine, fuck you' and 'me first' mentality ever since World War II to have society fighting amongst itself which created the downward spiral we're in today.
And this anon is right about the culture of honor and respect. I remember paying for something at a kiosk in Japan, and forgetting to pick up my change, and the clerk actually came and chased after me to give me my money.
Or when riding on the JR, I gave up my seat so a local elderly couple could sit together and they were taken aback that I did that. I only assume they expect western tourists to just focus on themselves.

>>34214010
> taking memes and shitposting seriously
how old are you?

Calling being a vtuber that panders to lonely men by just streaming pretty much whatever you want while engaging with your 99% of the time all supporting fanbase is really strange.
What exactly is negative about making several thousands of people's lives more tolerable? Why does it matter if the person behind the screen is a kissless virgin, is it not an act of good that your content makes him enjoy life more?

Entertainers have a massive reach that seriously helps a lot of people. Why not take pride in that work instead? You'd think anyone with a shred of empathy would see the good in giving relief to those suffering.

>>34219508
That question should be addressed to the woke, yasss slay queen crowd. And that crowd is highly individualistic. Highly individualistic people don't care about "relieving" others of their suffering ; it's all me me me me to them.

>>34205387
>why do they even bother doing this
you must be the biggest retarded to be shat onto this earth

>>34217247
Man, even miguel gato and K chan that were top 1 and 2 world wide today have a rough time outside of the brand, I can't imagine how dire it would be for these girls if they suddenly lose the brand.

>>34205387
winner winner

>>34207318
I know this is bait but I honestly can't believe twitterfags are retarded enough to actually think like this

>>34209449
read a book dumb historylet

>>34205894
they live with their parents till early 30's most of the time

>>34208348
The fanbase reflects the streamer

>>34205387
Can I ask when did posters develop this mentality? Many months ago we wouldn't have this thread and the OP would have been told to go back to /jp/. I believe there's validity in this kind of question being asked but the mentality behind it just screams weeaboo

>>34209552
What? Poor people have more kids on average. Japan's social norms and work culture are what's fucked.

>>34209465
>Kronii
Yeah
>Ame
Lol, lmao even. Goslings aren't unicorns, anon.

>>34221724
kill yourself phoneposter tourist

>>34221791
I've probably been more time here than you, glad to see I got a reaction out of you

>>34221851
you dont belong here itoddler

>>34221724
>Many months ago we wouldn't have this thread and the OP would have been told to go back to /jp/. I
I think the original globalfags figured out you people are unironic twitter trannies and washed their hands of you. They're retarded because it's always been obvious anyone with a "Go back to /jp/" mentality wants to ruin whats unique about Hololive in favor of western type whoretubing.

>>34221870

lul alright

here is another (You) xD

>Why does every woman I interact with come to resent me?
>I-I’m sure it’s their fault, not mine.

>>34221724
What do you think. If you really have no idea, then I assume you’ve literally never heard of HoloEN or Tempus.

>>34221907
>western type whoretubing
You will never be Japanese.
And you would cry yourself to sleep if you actually knew how promiscuous your little yellow rice eating princesses are.

>>34221965
I'd say they havn't sucked anywhere near as much dick as you but I doubt any man has ever had the courage to put their penis anywhere near that grotesque distended sarlacc pit of a mouth of yours

>>34221907
>They're retarded because it's always been obvious anyone with a "Go back to /jp/" mentality wants to ruin whats unique about Hololive in favor of western type whoretubing
I don't know why you even feel threatened, I've never been in favor of any change. I just think it's all in your head and you're entitled, although maybe I see it like this because my oshi is pretty uncontroversial
>>34221924
That doesn't tell me anything

>>34221916
>Why does every rapist I interact with rape people?
>I-I’m sure it’s their fault, not mine.

>>34222022
>Migoposter
Like pottery

>>34222022
>n-no you
Lol, it’s a virgin AND a faggot.
If those western women are such whores, why won’t they sleep with you, faggot?

>>34222066
>Fucking an STD riddled white roastie
For what purpose, they're nigger bait

>>34222066
Maybe because he doesn't sleep with whores.

>>34222066
>3DPD
ewww no

>>34222066

>>34222131
>>34222140
>>34222168
>>34222180
>I-it’s because my standards are too high!
I’ll bet, little man.

>>34218723
>It's the fault of conservatives in the west pushing the 'I got mine, fuck you' and 'me first' mentality ever since World War II to have society fighting amongst itself which created the downward spiral we're in today.
>Conservative
Excuse me, but if you're implying that this is a polarized issue cause through one party instead of a culture developed by the entire nation, you are setting yourself up with an easily refuted argument. Many liberal ideas also absolve the idea of responsibility in place of identity politics, or such as the sense of mental health making behavioral problems absolved. Do you not think giving the general public a free pass to do as they please is not incentive to act entitled, if not pretentious? This is a bi-partisan failing, and to disregard it as such is misleading, and disingenuous at minimum.

>>34222220
>Expecting anything more than a whore is too high standard.
Why are retarded westoids like this?

have you ever considered that they don't actually resent their fanbase? the 1% shitters who complain about homo collabs is not the entire fanbase lmao.

>>34222220
>Having standards makes it seethe
Yep. It's a woman.

>>34222282
The implication that you have standards is the joke, virgin faggot.

>>34222350
You don’t have standards, though. No one will have sex with you. Which is why you resent them.
Everyone figured this out about you when you were in middle school, little “man.”

>>34222220
I didnt say that

>>34208399
And EN was banned from Rust war ss3 as a result

>>34205387
western streamers are naturally lazy and entitled

>>34206660
this

>>34214087
2008 newfag here, not sure how relevant it is.

>>34223191
No they weren’t retard

>>34208606
No I'm not the consumer pig who eat anything she shit out

>>34208830
Why you can agree with it but I can't disagree with it? Double standard?

>>34223242
women*

>>34209939
>now a full on idolfag
Dude she proudly confirmed playing with Niji boy off stream

>>34210066
That's why they're fooled by vocal minority collab beggar

>>34206391
Ha. I only know the first one, are you the yin to my yang anon?

>>34210490
Dude you never want people to forgive your mistake?

>>34210649
>EN of course, does not have this, and is actively against it
They shouldn't join idol company in the first place. There're more worthy candidates than them like Milky

>>34211721
This is what Nijinigger believe

>>34217247
They believed their entertainment skills are superior because their hugbox said so... those thots will wake up to a rude awakening

>>34222391
>No one will have sex with you
Hahaha roastie detected. Your cunt's value is dropping down everyday, your value as a human will drop to zero when you become old because you never try to develop any outside of sex

>>34226378
Yes Team ABC have no EN member cuz EN didn't respect group activities the last time

>>34212673
To be honest, Gura was great before hololive, JP-tier of entertainment and great humor sense. But unfortunately the money and western-woman mindset made her the lazy-whore of today.

>>34227897
Today, many many people want to destroy her out of jealously, the doxxers seek her new house like a maniac, she need to be extra careful and it stressed her out, especially EN have been divided and collab beggars are aiming for her

>>34209607
>Studying/self improvement stream
"Yeah fucking boring, go next please" is mostly what you're gonna get, unless the streamer is faking it and pretending to be struggling, thus making unnatural growth on stream. There are too many options around for a casual viewer to choose from in this climate, especially EN. Imagine coming home from work and see your favourite streamer lost 7 rounds of FPS in a row because she just picked it up this morning, and now you can hear her being frustrated at her attempts. And then she kept doing it for the whole week, depressing af. To git gud is to struggle most of the time, and keeping it entertaining is difficult as hell. That's why training montages exist, only hardcore fans stick through the training arc. To be fair, there is no obligation to stick around: it's the liver's job to be presentable, us viewer can see your results when you're ready so we might as well keep ourselves entertained properly somewhere else. Face it, it's either you can or you don't, there is no "try".

>>34205387
The ethots you toss your money at doesn't like you either, yet they still get your money.
>Why do they bother doing this
I wonder, anon?

>>34211083
And just for that, we know that inside her pretty head is a working brain

>>34214087
So you're saying most Kizuna Ai fans gave up on vtubing, right?

>>34214905
Sad but true really.

>>34208383
You went off a bit there with that hag love rant you dirty old baba, but you're definitely right about that feeling of supporting your chuuba and allowing her to blossom is definitely the underpinning of vtubing as something different from "regular streaming." And like an idol, the vtuber is grateful for her fans. She thanks them after her live, she thanks them for buying her merch, she tells them that she's so happy that she's here and it's all thanks to (You).
What attracted people to these girls in the first place was the feeling of gratitude they had for their fans at a time when twitch thot entitlement was at an all time high. If this unspoken mutual understanding dies, and it is dying in the West, then so will vtubing. The fact that Hololive, an agency that purposefully picks diamonds in the rough so that you can see them shine, is falling into spite and entitlement is the death knell for vtubing.

>>34217980
Cant wait for people to go to a class on how to call your mom to solve your tech issues

>>34229786
As long as HoloJP continues to exist in its current form, things will be fine.

>>34205387
>why do they even bother doing this?
money

>>34209877
>And I bet it hasn't affected your life either.
I literally sold my entire mtg collection, a game I have been actively playing since the late 90's because of how absurdly woke that shit got.
I can't think of a single aspect of my life that hasn't become worse due to "wokeism". Even 4chan has become worse due to people like you.

>>34222220
>complaining about men with money AND standards
Women moment.

>>34205387
Westerners are retarded, that's your answer.

Thanks anon, most posts I've read in this thread really resonates with me, and explains why I kind of fell out from enjoying vtubers lately. I thought I was being a schizo lately and thought my feelings towards this hobby is swayed by the public opinion.
And as always, women posts and rebuttals are still seething with rage and contribute zero meaningful discussion. Japs should've been racist to overseas listeners, it was a mistake pandering to the EOPs.