/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>32315013
>le haachama is the strongest xd
cringe

>>32315013
>a rat
>gods tier
is there some chuunishit lore i`m missing?

>>32315013
All of them<My dick

>>32315745
It's EN, of course it's chuuni shit. Basically she's chaos. Existed before the creation of things like the universe. She's a forever being that will not dissapear even after all life is gone

>>32315013
Lore addict Anon, your tier list is good now. You fixed it last time, that conversation is too recent.
At least put some twist in the concept, by making it a Hologra powerlevel tier list or something

>>32316086
damn, it really is some wacky grandiose shit every single time lul. thanks anon.

>>32315888
/thread

>>32316200
Thanks anon, I kept the topic a bit more general this time so maybe we'll see some new tierlist or arguments, I'd be curious to see one about the girls of nijisanji for example.

>>32315013
I'm not sure if you're the creator of this image but why is Kanata so high in the tier list? Is it based on some specific feat or statement?

>>32316200
Yeah. OP, the tier list you have there is pretty damn accurate if I'd say so myself. Obviously I think some members are slightly misplaced but as a whole, they're in the right tier (+-1), the top half of the list is especially well done.

>>32316619
Vtuber powerscaling for other agencies too would be interesting indeed...

According to Vox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6H3UztyXBA&t=13

That video caused massive anger and asshurt among the nijiEN community, because he knows fuckall about the lore. So they made this video as a response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8VqdrMF4CM

>>32317085
Neither of these tierlists are what I would call truly "accurate", but in Rosemi's one, at least they DO recognize that there are more to lore than surface-level summaries found on the agency's website or vtuber wiki, even if they're missing a lot of the finer details due to not being able to watch most of their coworkers' streams.

They also recognize vtuber lore aren't static and evolves over time via their streams, so kudos to them. And hey, given the lore they do know, it's not a badly done job.

>>32316619
Nijisanji could be interesting. It's a big task but we could start by EN since there is a basis and use people knowledge of JP livers to build around it. Let's see if people want to do it

>>32317085
Thanks for the links Anon. Let's use the revised Rosemi tier list as foundatuon. Pretty every livers and fans agree that it is more accurate.

I still personally disagree with a few things in it still. Nina is way too low, she should be S tier, just behind Pomu. She's a divine being that has luck manipulation powers. For people that knows Black cat in DC, this power is completely OP. She cannot have anything bad happenening to her. If I remember correctly their argument for the lower placement was that she was chased from heaven. Which doesn't make sense in the first place because Satan whole thing was being chased from heaven too. Even though Rosemi's version of Satan is more based on reincarnation. I think that point is moot.
Also Vox is too low too. He should be in A tier. He's a jobber that got beaten by an army of warriors, sure. But it was a surprise attack. He's still a voice demon. Putting him in the same tier as a ghost is a stretch.

NijiEN has the design philosophy of pic related.
They tend to release waves in pairs, Light and Dark. So Obsydia is the dark version of Lazulight.

Therefore:
Elira is the Solar Sky Dragon, while Selen is the Lunar Sky Dragon.
Finana is a warm-water mermaid, while Petra is a cold-water penguin.
Rosemi and Pomu are both forest creatures.

But how is Rosemi, the rose maiden, "dark"? During the pre-debut hype, it's clear that she was intended to be a yandere/femdom character, which is why she started calling her fans "butas" (piggies).
Notice during the teaser video, she says "In darkness I bloom":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqfFxdtsl6E
And in Black Out, she is called "satan" twice, once at 0:24 seconds, and another time in the background at 0:44 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-V0EHF30rk

Nobody really did anything with this lore, until Rosemi's lore series over the past 3 months. The storyline came to a conclusion during her outfit reveal stream, when she battles Diablo and becomes Satan incarnate. Even Vox bowed his head on twitter. Thus Rosemi is now canonically Satan, master of hell. Which means everyone living in hell bows to her, which includes a significant portion of the Nijisanji characters (considering Ethyria's theme was heaven/hell).

>>32316806
For Kanata I didn't find many great feats but she has a pretty good case for that tier anyway imo since her strenght is so legendary within hololive that it has become more than just a meme. Also she would obviously have angel physiology (flight, can burn people, immune to disease etc) and she has healing powers on top of that too. In the end it's still a bit ambigious of course but a lot of the characters are, unfortunately.

>>32315013
Ive never been convinced there is that much seperation between the ENs nor the various other Gods like Gamers and Mona. Laplus is also bottom tier while rrstrained but RPG boss tier at full strength but she was still defeated to be sealed away. I would say a small list with few categories would be better like

Actual Gods-Most of EN and Gamers
Divine servants/Mythical beasts-Kiara Kanata Miko Ina
RPG bosses-Laplus Coco Ayame Gura if she is not Poseidons kid
RPG party members-Noel Flare Shion Risu Tempus
Above human-Pekora Ollie Boton
Human-Subaru Zeta Matsuri

>>32317730
In what kind of dimensions in terms of power are we moving here?Maybe that would be more insightful than just saying S tier etc. Also, I had the impression Pomu would be at the top from some anon powerscaling her.

>>32318288
cringe

>>32319240
If we wanted to for exemple use OP's terminology we would have to redisign the whole tier list because it was thought as "who would win in a 1vs1 fight". And I don't have enough knowledge on all the livers to do that myself.
But basically what I suggested is the equivalent of putting Nina from superhuman to mythical and Vox from superhuman to powerful
Because yeah. Pomu would've been apocalyptique level or even cosmic. She demonstrated some reality warping abilities on stream as well as some kind of twilight manipulation powers with her black arms.

>>32319140
Miko is virtual even in her own lore and Bae is blatantly more powerful than the rest of council so I think those divides make sense

>>32319140
>Actual Gods-Most of EN and Gamers
Where does that thing of Gamers being gods comes from? There is obviously a bit of shinto influence around their characters and the kanji in their names, but that's about it. Outside of Mio whose updated official lore implies she might be a divinity, I don't think anybody showed actual godly powers on stream or in their extended lore?

>>32318288
Based. I remember people thinking that Rosemi VN's outfit reveal was a last minute thing to try to justify herself being at the top of the list. When she was actually already doing an ARG about that months before the tier list discussion was even a thing

>>32315013
I will continue to disagree with this thread until Pekora is superhuman, especially because Watame somehow got moved up but Peko didn't. I will also admit my insistence on this is that I don't want my Oshi being that weak.

>>32320837
Watame being there is not strange because she can canonically respawn. But I agree that Risu being in superhuman and not Pekora, is weird.

I feel like Council should have equal power level. People like to put Moom at the bottom for whatever reason.

Pekora pulling carrot cart.jpeg

>>32315013
Why is a mentally ill person the strongest?

>>32321110
The only feats we saw Mumei do are related to humanity. Others are concepts
that have powers way beyond that scale

>>32315013
>Ame
Wait what am I missing, isn't she just a normal human with a time traveling pocket watch? Unless you put her in mythical because she's on Myth?

>>32322466
Not OP, but time travel is a pretty OP ability. I think the pocket watch also lets her slow down time around her, so effectively super speed. She'd probably be at the top of "powerful" at the very least.

>>32315013
I heard Zeta is like an agent from the future or something right? So can she like go back and forth with that, stuff that only Kronii and Ame can do?

Prove me wrong.

>>32315745
If you go by Council's introduction and initial lore Bae should, at the very least, be able to match the rest of council on her own given she's meant to keep them all in check.

>>32315013
Shouldn't cosmic be above gods?

>>32320463
The power level chart that actually matters.
Ina should be smelly and hairy btw, she's a gross neet that never leaves her room.

>>32315013
this is wrong

>>32320463
Worst one I' veseen

>>32315550
She is dumbass bitch ate a fucking tarantula

>>32315013
Your scale sucks

>>32340148
Not an argument. Explain why or fuck off.

>>32315745
Bro, do you even watch the original council lore video?

>>32325818
Why only EN + Haato ?

>>32315013
..Alton?

>>32315013
what is the difference between Apocalypse and Planetary?
Both seem to be able to solo destroy earth.
Is it about one-shotting it and taking a few days or what is the scale here?

>>32320463
>Nene, the one person who has talked in detail about getting hair removal downstairs, isn't right up at the smooth end of the scale.
Whoever made this chart is fucking retarded.

>>32320985
Risu has the witch lore and Watame was already on the edge of Superhuman anyway, even without granting her the respawn ability. I haven't seen a good argument why Pekora should be higher.


>>32348270
Apocalypse could devastate the planet but not destroy it.

>>32325492
That's the first time hearing that Zeta has some kind of time related powers. Any proofs for that?

>>32315550
>>32339375
And a kangaroo, and a crocodile, and a scorpion, and recently, raw fucking lobster. Parasites cannot survive inside her digestive system.

>>32348971
>Apocalypse could devastate the planet but not destroy it.

so what powers do Fauna and Calli posess that can actually destroy a planet?

Fauna i though controls only nature. She can control all animals and devastate everything with massive bee swarms or whatever, but what kind of stuff can she do worldbreaking wise?
Same for Calli. She can reap all souls, killing anyone who lives on earth, but what power does she have to actually destroy the planet? Even Kiara seems to be more powerful considering sheer destruction power, considering she can control her heat to match the sun.

>>32348270
Planetary = destroy planets
Apocalypse = destroy life (humans) within a planet

>>32349341
please see >>32349231
shouldn´t Fauna and Calli be a tier lower then?
And wouldn´t that make Kanata also just Mythical, since she can´t fight with all of humanity and win? The moment military goes all out against her she is done for.

>>32349231
Fauna can revive the entire planet, including herself and everyone on it. She did so in her debut stream.
Mori is there because she's the first apprentice of the concept of death which should imply that she can kill everyone below her on the list. We know she already killed Kiara a few times at least, obviously she respawns but that's still a win for Mori.

the strongest

>>32349231

Fauna as nature can also refer to earthquakes, tectonic shifts, volcanic eruptions. But what comes next is worse, the water is affected, tides will come in miles high and devastate the coasts where most of civilization is, forcing the survivors to move inland to watch archipelagoes get devastated by typhoons as the ground itself crumbles beneath them. The sudden influx of refugees and disrupted land, air, and sea travel will cause a logistical nightmare that will decimate far more people than the initial disasters could. Disease then will strike from the piles of corpses with medical access being isolated as people, now plagued with mass panic and hysteria, instead of cooperating with what semblance of government is left, will choose to loot and pillage because they're wild animals like that.

Calli, will just be there working overtime.

Mumei can regress whole humanity to the state of primates, right? Or bestow sapience onto other creatures.

>>32349667
I am not convinced about Fauna.
If we consider bringing back all life on the same scale as taking away all life, that would still only be Apocalypse tier. Or does she create the whole planet in the process?
I just can´t see that to be on the same power level as someone like Ina. Like a star eater or other lovecraftian beeings can just swallow the planet and thats it.

>>32349819
maybe i got only confused by the definitions of apocalypse and planetary.
like the scenario you describe seems to be apocalyptic (end all life) but won´t erase the planet itself.

>>32349958
Nature could refer to the systematic state of the environment and the domino effect it has on itself. Just like climate change, if one part of the world loses moisture and gets drought, another gets floods and typhoons. Earthquakes cause tsunamis and typhoons reduce third world countries into the stone age. It is indifferent and survival is entirely a choice.

>>32350131
You're right, there should be clear definitions.

>>32349958
The entire planet was gone, yeah, she says she revived it with just a little bit of her golden apple powers which is confirmed to be just her own power. https://youtu.be/iICu7NcUK4o?t=386

>>32350310
thank you for providing this.
i am now convinced about Fauna being planetary.

>>32317730
>Nina
In Rosemi's tier list stream, they made a point in saying that although Nina is a god of luck, her powers don't seem to work on herself as it's a known thing that she is canonically in debt since her debut stream. Therefore, they liken her to a support unit who can buff others, but not herself. Since the tier list is about how powerful they are individually, and she has never shown any other powers or feats, they couldn't justify putting her any higher.

>Vox
>But it was a surprise attack.
No? He fought the human army head on as of the opening lore in his debut stream.

>Reimu
Reimu is actually pretty powerful. Here are some things I do know about her:

- Is known as "Ghost of Darkness". Usually a title like that implies they are a powerful/ famous individual of their race
https://twitter.com/ReimuEndou
>NIJISANJI EN’s Ghost of Darkness here, ready to steal your soul !

- ...in fact, Millie and Enna also seem to imply that the above is in fact true .
https://youtu.be/DqNOd3FnJk4?t=4312
https://youtu.be/8Nr2i-Sh1r4?t=12349

- Has traditional higher-tier ghost abilities such as tangibility control, (limited) possession and soul steal
https://youtu.be/RoRsEbA6HrU?t=1719
https://youtu.be/cz5LVmBkvx0?t=2711
https://youtu.be/74E0i-EZ_s0?t=1532
https://youtu.be/M2iHjDWQdI4?t=8130
https://youtu.be/cz5LVmBkvx0?t=11694

- Lives in one of the deepest circles of hell, where it is cold instead of hot
https://youtu.be/cz5LVmBkvx0?t=11918
https://youtu.be/GV4b4taH7aA?t=2670
https://twitter.com/ReimuEndou/status/1445625540770033665

- Is over 400 years old
https://youtu.be/ws6WLl5XsgE?t=3427

And finally, she is associated with a certain notorious item in the NijiEN universe, something that played a part in drawing out the hidden power of the single most dangerous NijiEN member. That someone is...


>>32319240
>>32320165
Pomu is undoubtably the strongest NijiEN if you actually analyze her feats in canon. If you're unfamilar with Cursed Pomu and is wondering why a fairy* is this powerful, take a look at these couple of posts:
>>21982707
>>21927738
>>31526934
>>31550175
>>32102575

Essentially Cursed Pomu at base is pretty even with Full Power Rosemi (rightfully at NijiEN's top tier - >>32318288 is a good showing, but is technically not her strongest form), but the fact that Pomu has multiple ways of boosting her power level beyond that AND has actually shown multiversal feats puts her above Full Power Rosemi, who's greatest feat is destroying an entire timeline (Universal+).
Even if the NijiEN members themselves are not aware of this fact, feats are just about the most reliable way to gauge power level, so objectively she is the most powerful NijiEN member; directly comparable to hololive's Bae and IRyS, believe it or not... which brings me to the next point.


>>32326028
Personally I think 'Gods' should be renamed to 'Multiversal' since that's what "above cosmic" is. And as you have pointed, it can give off the wrong impression since some people will assume the species of everyone there are god when it's supposed to only refer to their strength and nothing else.

>>32347060
Haachama is EN 0

>>32317085
>>32317730
>>32350504
Elira shouldn't have been top tier. The only points they have for putting her up there is that she's a dragon (a non-argument since dragons' power level differs drastically depending on the universe/work), she's old as fuck and has met God (also a non-argument since she canonically lives in heaven). Those statements by themselves don't mean anything since it does not indicate she transcends/have superiority over the multiverse. She also has no feats (unlike her sister Selen), admitted she's weak in canon so there's really no logical justification for putting her up so high.

>>32352124
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_FAQ#Q:_Is_predating_the_concepts_of_space_and_time_an_1-A_feat? for reference. It's also the reason why Baelz and IRyS aren't above multiversal despite existing before the creation of the multiverse.

>>32350504
>Personally I think 'Gods' should be renamed to 'Multiversal' since that's what "above cosmic" is. And as you have pointed, it can give off the wrong impression since some people will assume the species of everyone there are god when it's supposed to only refer to their strength and nothing else.

I don't really like vs wiki scaling too much since like they put it:
>Furthermore, it should be noted that characters from a higher tier are not necessarily invincible to entities of lower tiers, as certain powers and abilities can potentially bypass the difference in strength entirely
But if we were to change it, I think this would probably be appropriate:
Virtual -> Infinitesimal+
Superhuman -> Wall Level +
Powerful -> Large Building Level +
Mythical -> City level+
Apocalypse -> Island Level+
Planetary -> Moon Level +
Cosmic -> Solar System Level +
Gods -> Universal Level +
Haachama -> Multiversal +

>>32350697
She's holo JP 1st gen she will never be EN

Among council, only Sana is gigantic or all of them can go giant? With their power level it should be natural...

>>32356372
Well Fauna can shapeshift others so presumably she can shapeshift herself to some degree too.
Bae has a degree of https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Freedom so maybe she can change her size too.

>>32352467
>vs battles wiki
We're trying to have fun here anon. Don't bring in those faggots.

>>32315550
no,. you

>>32317085
>So they made this video as a response
Kinda hilarious when they join the call and want to get a higher ranking.
I kinda wish hololive did something like that aswell, even if the tierlist might not be that accurate in the end.

We should make this into a recurring general called /lore/

>>32315550
She is. By definition she's the strongest.

>>32362253
It would be nice if there's enough interest for that. Not sure what would go in the OP.

>>32356653
>Well Fauna can shapeshift others so presumably she can shapeshift herself to some degree too.
Are you referring to the lore from this stream?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylwahhz2a_U

I'm still in conflict about whether the "Fauna usurped mother nature and turned her into her pet" count as canon since she purposely left those tidbits in question form throughtout the stream.
https://youtu.be/Ylwahhz2a_U?t=309
https://youtu.be/Ylwahhz2a_U?t=359
https://youtu.be/Ylwahhz2a_U?t=620
https://youtu.be/Ylwahhz2a_U?t=1541

Everything is rather ambiguous, but given Fauna (not Nemu) is seen in the Omen "creation lore" video (https://youtu.be/BOWi6Pclr48?t=75)), I'm inclined to say Fauna isn't lying about Nemu making it all up. Still, it could always be a retcon, or a case of Unreliable Narrator, but we won't know for sure unless Fauna further clarify things.

>>32366264
I mean she transforms humans in her asmr videos.

>>32350504
>although Nina is a god of luck, her powers don't seem to work on herself
Anon I don't think you realized how strong giving bad luck to OTHER PEOPLE is.
Again Black Cat powers were to give bad luck to anyone near her. And she was virtually invincible because nobody could do anything to her.
Nina being goddess of luck implies she would at least have control of luck to that extent but most likely even more.
There is no way anyone that wants to hurt her would be able to. Not to talk about how in itself the power of affecting probability is insane and can is borderline reality bending. Not being to use her powers is irrelevant.

>Vox
My bad I remembered it wrong

>>32317730
How is Selen below?

>>32371121
She's only half lunar Sky dragon whereas Elira is a full solar sky dragon that lived way before the time of men

>>32367413
Well yeah, I mean she has the POTENTIAL to be pretty insane but unfortunately her lore is too vague for it to mean she automatically has the same powers as Black Cat. I would be convinced if say, somebody linked me a timestamp showing this power in action, or even just an official statement from her or Anykara saying her power works like the way you described, but until then it's too much basing something entirely on speculations (from other works nonetheless, not even from Nijisanji).

Also most often hax like those only works on Universal beings and below (e.g. Giorno/Golden Experience Requiem and losing to Johnny/Tusk Act 4 losing to The World Over Heaven in Eyes of Heaven despite having virtually impenetrable defense and offense respectively), and as the discussion has showed us, there are quite a number of Multiversal and above beings in the vtuber world so... Also:

>>32320485
With the exception OoKami Mio (ironically), they're youkais.
>>/vt/thread/S32133135#p32149861

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dkai
>Kappa and inugami are sometimes treated as gods in one area and yōkai in other areas.

I guess the line for what is considered a god in Japanese mythology is pretty lenient, especially considering that youkai, which most people would consider as demons in the west, is sometimes considered gods there. Again, this brings me back to Nina and the other gods character: Being a god in itself doesn't really say anything about their power level and strength, especially when 3/4 hololive GAMERS can be considered gods by their definition despite them rarely ever showing they have powers.

The exceptions being:
Fubuki and her many different forms
Korone in another canon via Evil God Korone

>>32371121
>>32372894
According to Elira and Selen's lore, picrel is their canon family tree. To be honest, the dragon sisters are wanked beyond belief in NijiEN's tier lists >>32352124, but Elira being higher than Selen is fair enough.

Still, there could always be a Gohan type of situation where half-dragons are stronger than full-dragons, especially given Selen seems to be able to access/communicate with the different Selens across the Selenverse - Soft Selen, the Selens in her 200K CELEBRATION prison break lore stream, the Selens in her TEST YOUR LUCK casino lore stream, and Air Force Commander Selen in the recent outfit review stream for example... but again, at the end of the day it's speculations without strong evidence in the actual NijiEN's universe.

>>32373234
>much basing something entirely on speculations (from other works nonetheless, not even from Nijisanji).
It's not basing it on other works. It was just an exemple to illustrate that tychokinesis no matter the magnitude of the powers are, is inherently OP. It's just like time related abilities.
I'm not talking about the fact that Nina is a fox spirit in relation with god and had multiple lives. The mere fact that she has these powers makes her way better than people in the A row.
So unless your argument is that despite being the Keeper of luck, Nina has no luck related abilities at all, there's no way she's staying in A. That even if she didn't demonstrate her powers at all.

>>32320837
>>32320985
Oh nice, I see you buffed Watame since last time. Good job taking others opinion into consideration, OP.

Yagoo is here as a meme. The rest is acording to lore.

>>32325818
I can't. It's perfect. I love how you incorperated the other forms seen within streams too.

>>32382937
but matsuri is clearly a sexual predator.

>>32382937
but miko is clearly a sexual predator.

Luna is a goddess. Really wish people could know the truth about what a wonderful being she is…

>>32384221
Qrd on that with source please?

>moona in "normal person"
https://youtu.be/stmZAThUl64?t=96

>haachama in "normal person"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6DcLalmvkI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRCfFS0SsCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfMvQ9TmJTc

Power charts were so much fun before EN came along... Damn chuunis.

>>32392188
Nobody is stopping you from making one without EN.

>>32391507
What are these videos supposed to prove? That she's a god because she says she's one?
How is that different from Matsuri saying I'm god?
OP was wrong to put Haachama at the top her actual lore nowadays is just that she's a crazy schizo, just like your picrel shows.

>>32382937
Kobo = Supernatural since she's a shaman

>>32396319
>>/vt/thread/S32133135#p32144494

But of course, given your post you aren't going to actually watch the sources so there is no point in arguing with you further. Have a good day.

>>32396319
Sora/Matsuri have never actually displayed any powers or feats in canon, not even in her streams. Thus they remain jokes.

Haachama on the other hand has showcased her powers as legit feats many times on her streams, with most if not all without a hint of comedy or meme. And Cover explicitly confirmed her lore is canon in the picture you're talking about.

That's the difference.

>>32397011
Can I get more context than that? As far as I've seen, she's just a girl with schizophrenia and a split personality in her own lore, including that series she put out awhile back.

>>32396734
That was a good read. Thanks Anon

>>32398101
It's literally in the link >>32396734 posted.
Here's the direct link to all her feats >>/vt/thread/S30314066#p30372018

>>32398101
I've been watching Haachama since long before the COEXIST arc and have extensively watched her streams from 2021 onward. I've noticed that a lot of vtuber fans aren't even aware that Haachama continued her lore series whenever she camed back from her hiatuses with more arcs, all the way until August of 2022 (arguably the lore didn't really stop until the end of the year). Essentially, the Haachama/Haato lore is composed of 4 main arcs:

- The COEXIST arc (2021 Feb - March); which formally introduced the concept of Haato and Haachama being separate entities and their basic backstory.
- The time travel arc (2021 late March - April); which has Haatochama revisiting her (specially Haachama's) roots by literally going back in time to August 2020.
- The REVIVAL arc (2021 late April - May); which separated Haato and Haachama again and started to introduce more fantastical elements beside time travel like GOD(chama) into her lore.
- The summer of 2021 arc (2021 July - August); which brought back Haato as a recurring character despite being killed last arc and retroactively explained all the crazy, unexplained shit Haachama did in the past by formally debuting Godchama, causing Haato and Haachama to unite again.

And then after that there haven't really been any major new story developments. A couple of streams such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPIfocr6Rzc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YazuwO5DxYs fleshed out the lore established throughout the 4 arcs (HAACHAMA WORLD, possibly the origin story of Red Heart, a character introduced in the COEXIST arc) but that's about it.

Basically from REVIVAL arc onwards, it is revealed that canonically Haato was not being schizo and Haachama did in fact become this eldritch horror from a different dimension (HAACHAMA/GODCHAMA WORLD) after death. There's also this other unimaginably powerful being known as GODCHAMA (btfo all of council in her debut) who is hinted to be the ultimate fusion between all Haato/Haachama variants. It's why hololive fans always mention Godchama when Haachama comes up, it was a major part of her character for over half a year.


I know this all sounds kinda ridiculous but that's what happened. Not helped by the fact that HoloEN decided to introduce the infamous omegatranny chuuni lore out of nowhere and I guess it inspired Haachama to take her lore into that direction?

>>32399000
Very interesting. The problem of her lore post coexist was 1 it started to become repetitive and 2 it was way more sporadic than before.
I followed the coexist arc pretty closely but I fell off during the Time Travel arc. I love Haachama but I didn't want to sit through 2 hours of karaoke in order get 2 minutes of lore.
I wonder if someone was passionate enough to make a mega cut of all the relevant Haachama lore parts.

I tried. Any amendments

>>32399000
I stopped paying attention during the time travel arc so this post was an intersting read. The whole god/supreme being that btfos all of council sounds really cringy though, no wonder it was made as a response to Omegatranny EN chuuni lore

>>32376257
I guess I can see her in front of Ren, Fulgur and Aster but not really beyond A since Millie has actually demonstrated she herself has a certain extent of control over timelines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5uAWNCyquc
https://youtu.be/oHZWN38ytCY?t=2611
https://youtu.be/M1ipVOam1xc?t=7807
https://youtu.be/oHZWN38ytCY?t=3386

AND not only that, but via Lucie, she can outright erase timelines, as shown in her most recent "【The council decides】Your choice matters" lore stream (unfortunately privated for immersion in the lore),
Along with supposedly having some control over time/battlefield removal - https://youtu.be/xKrFcilp5mo?t=3769 + https://youtu.be/oHZWN38ytCY?t=3560

Also before you ask the question of whether Lucie counts as Millie's feats, imo it does since she made it clear that she will die if she is separated too far from Lucie - https://youtu.be/mNx_uGgu2rY?t=936, so they kinda have to be together, making them essentially the one unit. These facts combined makes her at least High Universal, likely higher.


>So unless your argument is that despite being the Keeper of luck, Nina has no luck related abilities at all, there's no way she's staying in A.
Sorry mate, but unless there's evidence of her having bidirectional control over luck AND the extent of it (afaik, Nina has only mentioned making others lucky, but never the other way around like you suggested), or some kind of official statement that explains it as such, Keeper of Luck is virtually a nominal title in power level debates. I'm not convinced that her power is the way you imagined it since given what we know it's more likely to NOT be the case, especially when there's proof in the opposite direction that indicate her power is limited - https://youtu.be/5FtzYaRfXQc?t=1190, as well as her needing to go through paperworks to do her job as the keeper of luck (not instantaneous power) - https://youtu.be/5FtzYaRfXQc?t=261.. Not to mention...

>It was just an exemple to illustrate that tychokinesis no matter the magnitude of the powers are, is inherently OP. It's just like time related abilities.
>That even if she didn't demonstrate her powers at all.
...while not technically wrong, is borderline No Limits Fallacy in this case since you kinda just assumed Nina can make the utmost use of her powers offensively, or the fact that it works in a battle situation at all, even though again, there are no hints of this in canon.
https://character-level.fandom.com/wiki/No_Limits_Fallacy#16._No_Limits_Fallacy_(NLF)

So what makes sense to me is either move Millie to the front of A and put Nina behind her, or move Millie up at least a tier and have Nina be at the front of A tier (honestly I'd say this is the better option).

>>32397011
>has never displayed any powers or feats in canon/not streams
>anon doesn't know about the christmas miracle.

>>32408532
>or move Millie up at least a tier and have Nina be at the front of A tier
Fair enough. I can agree with that.

>>32318288
>Notice during the teaser video, she says "In darkness I bloom":
>And in Black Out, she is called "satan" twice, once at 0:24 seconds, and another time in the background at 0:44 seconds:
There's also this part in the Obsydia new outfit teaser, where again, Rosemi's species is listed as "satan".
https://youtu.be/rNN3Bb-I_XM?t=242

Pretty smart way to foreshadow the official reveal of her satan origin, I'd say.

>>32418359
Goddamnit that picture is terrible. Let's hope this one is better.

>>32400434
Why is Luna that high?

>>32360590
Who would be the best to do that? I'd love to see Haachama and maybe Fauna do a collab about it

>>32422719
I think Fauna + Kiara would probably make the most accurate powertier list.
Fauna is smart and definitely knows the lore behind holomem and Kiara was malding that Concil was more powerful than Myth so she definitely cares about that stuff.

>>32367017
Interesting. I take it it's the shorters ASMR videos, and not the streams, right? I'll check them out.

>>32315013
so miko azki and aqutan are the strongest since virtual and that's what v(irtual)tubers supposed to be?

>>32423798
https://youtu.be/PNDaXycPDZM?t=647
Here's one time that happened.

>>32400434
>mel
>city block
how?

>>32315550
I know right? it should be festival :^ )

>>32430872
There are way weirder rankings in that list. Mel's position seems fine she's a prodigy vampire after all.

>>32315013
>He doesn't know
Poor lad.

I am stronger than everyone, even than Haachama.
Proof? I lived it out in a dream.

>>32382937
https://youtu.be/SI7juQaw-bM
Yagoo is above all others except haachama, he is the one who bound the very gods and elements to become streamers in hololive, also just fucking look him, he's definitely powerful

>>32400434
Isn't vesper like a vampire or half vampire or something? I know he's the support character but he's not that bad on the offense to not atleast be high peak human

>>32433945
Not only is he a vampire but part of an adventuring party too and has way higher strength than Magni, even though Vesper is more of caster since his highest stat is int, so there's no way he's just human level.

ITT: autism beyond what anyone previously thought possible.

>>32315013
>chammers at the top
Reddit is that way, faggot.

>>32315013
>Planetary
>A literal moon

>>32400434
Kanata on Universe tier?
what is wrong with you? Her only power is healing, has a grip strenght of 50kg and thats it. She is an angel, yes, but according to herself she is mortal.
She can loose to a human with a gun.
Put her on street level.

>>32396668
Self-proclaimed*

>>32436065
see >>32353226

>>32400434
>Moona on street level
This is the one who drowned Atlantis btw

>>32400434
your list is garbage
OP was way more accurate, you only made things worse

>>32400434
>street level
roru rumao even

>>32396016
Best one so far

>>32399000
i love my godchama so fucking much

>>32425512
Thanks for the timestamp friend!

>>32432681
We already discussed why Hologra can hardly be used for powerscaling in the last thread.

>>32315550
cope

If we ignore the lore as much as holos themselves do and only focus on raw power of personality and presence, the top ten strongest are as follows:
1. Sora
2. Fubuki
3. Marine
4. The Oka-Koro dyad (anyone who thinks Okayu and Korone are separate entities is a newfag)
5. Botan
6. Flare
7. Suisei
8. Coco
9. Haachama
10. Subaru

>>32454253
>Sora
ordinary human, she's not even stronger than a street brawler, inb4 you said she's a goddess, those are just memes, memes and fan canon are not included.

>Oka-Koro dyad (anyone who thinks Okayu and Korone are separate entities is a newfag)
post feats and timestamp from the stream instead of acting like an asshole.
fyi, feats from Hologra are non canon

and for other members, the list on OP >>32315013 is already perfect

>>32454649
NTA but I think he was ranking them on how charismatic they are or smth? But yes, for lore power level, OP's chart is pretty much perfect.

>>32315013
makes no sense for Mio to be below the rest of gamers, same goes for Botan, she would probably be above everyone in gamers

>>32454990
>makes no sense for Mio to be below the rest of gamers
It's a finer detail that not many English viewers know, but GAMERS are meant to be yokais except Mio, meaning Fubuki, Okayu and Korone have magical powers.
>>32373234

>same goes for Botan
Unfortunately the same "is actually a yokai" lore doesn't apply to her. In fact, she doesn't even have any magical powers, unlike Mio.

>>32455327
guns are the strongest spells

>>32455383
A spell that anyone can also use, including those with inherent powers.

>>32455482
but if you're talking about their individual abilities then Botan's the only one that can use them effectively, "they can learn it" isn't a very good criteria to do a power ranking
technically anyone can be a priestess of the old ones, are you going to rank them all the same as Ina?

>>32456243
Guns rapidly lose relevance the higher you go in the list.

>>32456243
>technically anyone can be a priestess of the old ones
Idk about that. There's nothing that states the Ancient Ones take anyone as their priestess in canon, especially not in the same way that happened to Ina. If you want to be technical, being priestess of the old ones shouldn't even have any impact of Ina's power level. The only reason Ina is as high as that is that apparently she can channel some of Ao-chan's power, according to some anons.

Guns are also not as strong as you think. It's wall-level as best, which is weak af in the overall scheme of power ranking.

I will debate you on all of my placements.

>>32457535
this is a pretty good list

>>32457535
>Pataphysics

>>32455482
>A spell that anyone can also use
That's like saying the Punisher is comparable to a normal street thug. For the record, the Punisher have killed marvel's gods multiple times

>>32458265
that's because marvels power scaling is unironically fucked.

>>32457882
Yes Pataphysics. Do you have a better way of contextualizing Haachama, Nene, or Yagoos specific expression of deific powers? or do you just not like seeing chuuni in the chuuni thread.

>>32458265
If the Punisher has the feats of him killing gods or whatever, then Punisher is that strong. I can't argue against that. Otherwise, it depends entirely on the person using the weapon, since guns on their own are not fighters.

>>32458473
Not chuuni enough unless you add the '.

If we were to make a lore and powerscale general what information should we include in the OP?
I kinda wanna scale Vshojo next

>>32465351
Is a feat/statement listing using posts from these powerscale threads feasible? I personally think it would be beneficial since a lot of people ask the same questions that have been answered many times in this and the previous threads. e.g. Why is [insert hololive/nijisanji member] so powerful? when often they just don't know about the member's lore in question.

And obviously a "previous thread" link is also essential.

>>32466315
>Is a feat/statement listing using posts from these powerscale threads feasible?
It would be a great resource that's for sure.
But I can't think of a good way to manage that without bias. Ideally if we could create something like this it would show links to feats or statements, with a short description of what the viewer can expect.

>And obviously a "previous thread" link is also essential.
Yeah I was also thinking that there should probably be a short description of what the general is about.

>>32465351
Speaking of Vshojo, there was this post >>31508593 a few weeks ago that listed Ironmouse's feats and lore. Could be quite useful.

>>32471113
From what I've seen so far the top tiers of Vshojo are really OP, especially Ironmouse and Nyanners, who have abilities like acausality and ideal transformation. I guess I'll give my full reasoning and tier list in the next thread, thanks anon.

>>32360590
>>32422719
Fauna had a segment in her anniversary marathon where she tried sorting EN by powerlevel. I need to dig it up but IIRC she ended up being unable to properly place Ina.

>>32473754
based, I found it. Thanks anon, gonna watch it now. It starts around here.
https://youtu.be/bmZ3m0gfvJA?t=27645

>>32474397
It's actually not that bad if you consider that she didn't do any research beforehand.

>>32474397
>>32475100
>Fauna: IRyS has to go to the bottom because... nobody has hope in their heart. So she can't exist. I'm sorry, IRyS.

>>32475679

rate mine

>>32477157
Why do you consider Pekora to be above average?

>>32477157
>Amelia in "Has some Meta Ability"
>Haachama and Moona in "Average"
EOP/10

>>32477306
her intelligence mainly, her strength might be average but she at least proven her intelligence in certain points, but if you put her as average i wouldnt really argue about it

>>32477157
Korone is supposed to be some level of divine being and she's comparatively physically strong. She should be at the same level as Fubuki.
I don't see Gura as being on the same level of destruction as the others on her tier.

>>32477493
I don't think Pekora has ever been stated to be particularly intelligent in lore.

>>32477493
fyi we didn't accept headcanon here.
please read the thread and drop the feats and statement form the stream like anyone else ITT

example
>>32399000
>>32173214
>>32149861
>>32149861
>>32353226

>>32477157
>hold the title as "Moon Goddess"
>control moon gravity as she please
>causing Tsunamis everywhere
>drown Atlantis
>had a beef with Ancient One
>listed on Average tier

>>32477157
>Marine
Come on.
https://youtu.be/u_hUpHUTJwQ?t=55

>>32477157
Based on their original lore and the cap it puts on them plus any showcase of abilities or power post debut that is consistent and logically fitting within said lore, I would say that your list is not perfect but better than the shit getting posted here.

>>32477157
Shit list, also smells like EN fags who never watch other branch and the updated Lores from the talents themself
try better next time

>>32478056
>he isn't strong enough to defeat giant reality warping lovecraftian creatures by himself
What are you, some kind of below average human?

>>32480562
you got me man...
i couldn't even beat a tiger cub on 1 on 1 let alone a lovecraftian deity, i guess i'm lower than average Human

>>32433945
he need to expan his lore

>>32433945
He's not but people joke about it because he looks like Alucard.

>>32400434
Is Regis really that strong?

>>32495808
>"He has an aversion to sunlight due to spending too long cooped up, absorbed in his research."
Anon even the official description hints at it. And Vesper himself leans super hard on the "I'm not a vampire "bit. This is exactly the same as Ina's "I'm human!"
Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

>>32499748
Meant for >>32492108

Do you guys think Holo Alt/Holo Earth deserve its own power ranking?

>>32495808
I don't know about that but Tempus' stats aren't that different so I don't see how you can justify putting them more than one tier apart.

>>32500476
Yeah but they should be clear and mention what they're scaling.