/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>32229227
*Ayame

>>32229227
*Aqua

soon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvIqdbPhq64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0DJgv8Cmdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVfwXUS2eIo

>>32229227
*Randy Orton

Sora is a whore. Gura isn't.

>>32229227
The Gura of HoloEN

Sora is an actual idol, she has gone from a 2view to someone recognized, and she has supported everyone in her company equally, be they men or women.
Gura is what a western person thinks an idol should be, treats males like they don't exist and supports her coworkers sometimes, but never if they are male.
They are completely different.

>>32229932
Big if true

>>32229407
Cringe
>>32229442
Based

>>32229998
>idol
>interacting with males
Choose one

>>32229227
Sora collabs with males.
Also Gura never streams but it's not Ayame level yet.
Gura is unironically the exact same as her wife, Shion.

>>32229513
>gura is a whore
>sora is a whore
THEY ARE

>>32229227
*Hulk Hogan

>>32229998
this isn't a bad argument. part of the term 'idol' is that they start off unpolished and as nobodies, and then the fans watch them grow, that's the whole idol appeal. You're not really the protypical idol in JP if you pop out with a bazillion views already, it's the growth process that they find appealing. K idols I think are a little different, you can spring from the head of zeus as an idol in korea.
Now I personally don't give a shit but there is a difference

These circlejerk/autofellatio sessions will be 1000x more funny when she inevitably collabs with Axel

>>32229932
MEDS

>>32230063
Good job proving their point, I guess?

>>32229998
The westerners mutilated the term. The term idol culture has become synonymous with unicorn culture, which it isn't.

>>32230276

>>32230254
Sure keep dreaming homobeggar. She has completely ignored anything about these leeches even on Twitter and she isn't retarded enough to risk her career over an irrelevant fag who will become a 3views in a couple months.

>>32230225
Honestly I'm reticent to call the newer Holo gens Idols. Not because I think they're whores or whatever, but because by the time they debuted they started out with so much popularity and support thanks to the efforts of those who came before them. It's not their fault but they still skipped the most important part of being an idol: growing from a nobody to a star.
If I'm being honest, I consider any Holo from ID and Stars more of an idol than any new JP or EN, simply because they don't have so much of an audience and support starting out and they have to work for it. In that respect, the most idol-like members of EN so far are Tempus ironically enough.

>>32230819
>the most idol-like members of EN so far are Tempus ironically enough
lmao are you serious? They had Mori and other members shill them nonstop and even had collabs with HoloEN. Their debut streams had something lik 30-40k viewers.
And I hope you aren't including Myth when you talk abou EN.

>>32230819
anon, how do Idols grow to prominence? By joining a company like AKB48...

>>32229468
>cameos =/= collabs
retardchama

>>32231098
>anon, how do Idols grow to prominence?
By sucking filthy ojisan cocks just like in the doujinshi

>>32229407
Based
>>32229442
Cringe

>>32231055
>Shill them nonstop
I didn't know "go watch them if you want I guess" and "they'll make it or fail by their own merits" counts as shilling. If you're referring to collabs, those only happened after they already had situated themselves, and those didn't even help their numbers much at all, the one with the most subs is still only at 150k, compare with Council who already had that and more before they even debuted.
Also, counting debuts when we're talking about seeing an Idol grow? Those always have extremely inflated numbers, you look at their CCVs now and they get around 3k.
>And I hope you aren't including Myth when you talk abou EN
I am. They propelled to stardom right from the get go, Gura especially, even if it was only due to a series of coincidences.
You want to read the most insane shit ever? I consider Mori to be more of a classic JP Idol than Gura. She has more connections, she has put out more music, she has done more collabs and given out more support for coworkers of both sexes, and we got to see her grow at a more reasonable pace rather than blaze to 1M, even if it was still insanely fast. Unironically it seems that Mori understand that acknowledging males doesn't disqualify from being an idol.

>>32230225
>that they start off unpolished and as nobodies, and then the fans watch them grow, that's the whole idol appeal
Yes and idol fans tend to support idols that care about the fans
It's hard to be selfless supporter, most fans are supporting them expecting some kind of reward

>>32229998
>she has gone from a 2view to someone recognized
unlike gura who was born the the user and pass of a youtube acount with 4m followers tattooed in her right hand

>>32229227
Sora collabs with men though...

>>32232402
How many subs did Gura start with when she debuted and how long did it take her to get to 1M?
How many subs did Sora start with and how long did it take her to get to 1M?
Because let's be honest, I don't think Gura only had 13 CCV on her debut.

>>32231890
Unironically the only correct take I've seen on this. Thank you.

I want to see her collab with Vox Akuma.

Not because I want a coed collab, but because I wanr ro see the world burn.

but who is towa

>>32230063
Retarded newfag. Sora has been casually interacted with males since 2018

>>32231890
Holy shit you're fucking delusional. Myth was literally the first Hololive EN branch, Gura and others even said that they had absolutely no idea if this shit was going to work in the west and a lot of people predicted that they were going to be a flop. Gura is literally the most subscribed Vtuber in the world, if that's not a from zero to hero story I don't know what it is. It's easy to say it was all luck when maybe other people would've failed hard to make this shit work.
>I didn't know "go watch them if you want I guess" and "they'll make it or fail by their own merits" counts as shilling
Mori and countless other ENs constantly interacting and highlighting them on Twitter doesn't count? They had Bae, Ollie and A-chan doing a watchalong of their debut too. It's not like they had zero fucking exposure.
>Mori
>idol
lemao, fucking Filthyfrank becomig Joji is more of an idol than Mori.

>>32229227
the whore of atlantis

>>32229227
Who?

>>32230063
>chumtard doesn't know what an idol is
Classic.

>>32233091
>Cukbeats seething at Gura
Classic.

>>32229227
So she lurks in Tempus chat. Got it

Gura would get a stroke first, before willingly visit a holostars' totsumachi. She's nothing like Sora.

>>32233138
I don't even watch you ENwhores. Keep trying though. Maybe your oshi will become an actual idol if you keep spamming threads.

>>32232986
We're not talking about what ifs, they didn't fail, they exploded into the scene and became overnight sensations, therefore the growth period that classic idols have was skipped. they still grew, but it was the equivalent of dumping water in a bucket when you already had 6 other buckets filled to the brim; it doesn't impact as much. Tempus, despite all the shilling are still relatively unknown by holo standards, and it will be a long time before they "make it", thus we get to see them grow an audience. Their bucket, so to speak, is still getting filled up.
Also
>Mori
>idol
>lemao
is not an argument. I explained why I think Mori is an idol in the classical sense, if you're going to disagree the least you could do is give an explanation as to why.

>>32230195

>>32233501
ok so their several years of hard work while they were not in Holo is just... irrelevant?

>>32230423
Photoshopped Gura is from Hololive JP

>>32233630
No, it's not. I will not dismiss these past two years of work they've put in, that would be an asshole move, They have grown as entertainers and (I hope) as people. My point is that watching an idol grow from being a nobody to a star is different from watching an idol grow from being a star to a bigger star.
Also I want to add that it dawned on me why YAGOO is memed to be saviorfag with an idol company, because the classic idol tale is basically saviorfagging: take a girl or boy down on their luck, give them support and encouragement, watch them grow from nobodies to small timers to having a concert all about them, and feel a sense of pride, a "that's my girl/boy". Not related to my first point, but I thought it was interesting.

>>32229998
nobody cares about your definition of idol that isn't even relevant
not even you care

>>32234484
>Anon somehow enters my brain and knows what I care about and what I do not
>MY definition of idol when I didn't make it
>Not even relevant because he says so
>No one cares because he says so
(you)

>>32233501
You genuinely seem to think that you can't become an idol unless you start as a literal 2views. Obviously there won't be another Sora in Hololive but unironically saying that Tempus are more idolike than Myth just because they flopped is delusional. Again, no one knew if this shit would work in the west and if Myth would be just a bunch of ethot Twitch bitches, they proved them wrong and pretty much set the golden standard for HoloEN. The journey is still there, with some like Gura starting as a nervous trainwreck and slowly improving.
>if you're going to disagree the least you could do is give an explanation as to why
because Mori never wanted to be an idol and never will. The Joji comparison wasn't random, she's an eceleb who wants to use her fame as a boost into becoming an hip-hop artist. The collabs with TT and the shoutouts from the Penguin dude are proof of that.
>and given out more support for coworkers of both sexes
honestly to me it seems she's more interested in the BOIS than her own genmates. We all know how she behaved towards Kiara and she's been a terrible influence on Bae and now Kronii.

>>32230063
Who died and who established what idol culture should be like, coombrain?

>>32235011
Maybe I expressed myself wrongly. I don't think that if you don't flop you're not an idol. I think that an idol who's already famous when they start will miss a part of the journey, that being growing a following. I'm weird, so in my mind I had like a list of checkmarks you need to be an idol, and because Tempus had the "growing a following" check that Myth mostly missed, that made them more like idols for me. That doesn't mean I don't think that Myth, Council, and anyone who starts off famous aren't idols, just that they missed a step of the classic idol journey.
>because Mori never wanted to be an idol and never will. The Joji comparison wasn't random, she's an eceleb who wants to use her fame as a boost into becoming an hip-hop artist
I agree, which is why I find it funny that she has acted more like a classic, non-western tainted idol than Gura, given all the connections, collabs and support she has done. Of course, if someone has a different definition of idol, then no, Mori isn't an idol by any means.
>honestly to me it seems she's more interested in the BOIS than her own genmates.
Mori has always said that she felt more comfortable around boys than girls, that she was "one of the boys". It just took having males that spoke her language for everyone to see that she wasn't kidding.

>>32235766
Well at least we had a somewhat normal conversation in this shithole.
I'd like to add that the 2veiws to stardom path isn't the sole metric to be an idol, otherwise fucking Kendrick Lamar or other Hip-Hop artists who started in a ghetto would be idols like Sora, which is a pretty hilarious concept.

>>32230819
man you can't be fucking serious
Tempus got so much love just for being the only male talent associated with HoloEN
of course their audience is more limited but they still jumped to being 4 views and even Mori, who said they wanted to give them time to develop their own identities, collabed with them as soon as she possibly could ban or not
i get the distinction you're trying to make but i don't think it's there
and i say this as someone who acknowledges the stacked playing field men in this industry have to deal with and can respect vox and the boys even if i'm the opposite of their target demo

>>32237408
I get what you mean. Tempus have been very succesful compared to the rest of the male vtuber side, JP stars included, because of their association with EN. You could even say that they got lucky. But even with that success they're small compared to the rest of Holo, and their growth will be very slow. People will get to see them grow instead of blazing through milestones. They'll simply mostly go through the grind that the first gens of Holo had to go through. Instead of getting to 1M in a couple months, it'll take them years if they ever make it.
You could say that they resemble the earlier Holo gens rather than EN in that respect.

Gura and Kiara are the only true idols in hololive en. I still love Ame tho.

>>32234611
yes, thank you for clarifying

>>32238508
I truely don't understand what makes Gura and Idol - she's just as trashy as Mori

>>32231352
The board would be on fire if Gura even mentioned Tempus by name or game them a follow on twitter.

>>32239029
Roru, rumao even.

>>32239029
I've been into JP idols since ~2008 and let me tell you that anons here have convinced themselves that if someone is not interacting with men (fulfilling unicorn fantasy) and occasionally doing a prerecorded concert or a karaoke then that person is an idol.
Most outsiders' knowledge about JP idols come from AKB48 and indeed they were/are forbidden to DATE men but they have always interacted with them and in the early days even did some raunchy ojisan pleasuring games on TV. Idols in Japan talk to men all the time and it's just seen as part of business. However, Hololive has created a bastardized version of that when they put official male-female collab ban in place (which they later removed) and allowed dating IRL with no restrictions. That basically means their model became the complete opposite of what real idols do in terms of male interactions.
By creating this "girls only" environment they have attracted a substantial amount of fans who specifically enjoy this kind of content and once the girls saw its potential, most of them never looked back (except for a few old timers like FBK, Matsuri or Sora). The girls started calling themselves idols because it was YAGOO who pushed for this virtual AKB48 concept and many of them liked the idea. Because of all that newfags instantly assume that as long as you're a vtuber you must uphold "the golden standard" of HoloJP to be able to call yourself an idol.
Hololive is now one of the top dogs in the industry and this bastardized version of an idol has been accepted as the norm by many but traditional idol fans will never accept this because it essentially means "it's okay if you get fucked by 50 men as long as I don't know" instead of "you're not allowed to date anyone and I want to see every interaction you have with men to make sure you're not overstepping the boundaries". As a result of that you'll forever see discussions /here/ what a true idol is.
Another aspect of idol culture is that you actually have to release music semi-regularly and it's clear that some girls who call themselves idols in Hololive barely have anything to sing so make of it what you will.

>>32229227
ogey

>>32241614
>Another aspect of idol culture is that you actually have to release music semi-regularly
So everything you said combined essentially means that Mori who releases music very frequently and collabs with males is ironically more of an idol than Gura who ignores males and only has one orisong yet everyone here touts as a real idol, right? That's hilarious.

>>32245340
Do you expect me to write a whole book about every aspect of idol culture? I've specifically only talked about dating and music releases and left out other shit because that post was already too long. Mori is not an idol and neither is Gura but only one of them has to guts to admit it. When Gura releases an album or at least few EPs, starts actively doing variety content, holds at least one LIVE (not that prerecorded shit) concert and actually shows dedication toward clear goals instead of just cruising on easy mode then I'll consider her an idol in traditional sense. Of course, you're free to go by any definition or just take her word that she's an idol because she said so.

>>32230063
Love live ruined an entire generation of idolfags

>>32230063
You know you're a male right by your retarded logic she shouldn't be talking to you too and streams would be muted.

>>32229932
not real

>>32229998
The only post in this thread worth reading

People forget one important piece that will debunk their silly rrat about the lazy whore collabing with males. It won't happen number one she's a shut in introvert. If Kiara being chatty triggered her imagine how uncomfortable it would be for her to keep up a conversation with them. And 2. She knows what her fanbase are she's not going to risk losing them because this would mean she won't be able to stream once a week anymore and work extra hard again which she doesn't want to do. Simple as.

>>32229932
true if big

>>32231890
Extremely based post. Chumbuds are delusional.

>>32232986
>if that's not a from zero to hero story I don't know what it is
She already had nearly a million subs on her old account.

>>32229227
>Sora
>Widely respected by all
>Makes sure the people around her are comfortable.
>Talks to males and collabs with them
>Started from nothing

Gura
>makes her genmates miserable (see recent Ame drama, ghosting ame for rust whitelisting before that, etc)
>Is not widely respected, especially when she doesn't stream.
>Refuses any mention of males just because she's scared.
>Got insane boost from pl.

>>32229998
>a rational post
get out while you still can and godspeed basedanon

>>32231890
i-i have to fucking kneel. Unironically one of the best posts I've ever seen on this board.
"idol culture" =/= GFE no matter how many times unicorns try to spin it

>>32229998
>sora ate stolen cat food and rice to survive for a while
>holoen just walked in and made a million bucks, merely because sora had done the actual work
>they then complained that streaming more than 2-3 times a week was 'hard'

Hello I am a time traveler and in two weeks something huge that's going to make a lot of people seethe will happen.
Mori will invite gura to a dbd collab 5 minutes into the collab gura asks why is there only two of them in which mori replies I'm inviting our friends.
Tempus join and they start surrounding gura stripping off their clothes as altare is playing the jackass party bgm in the background.
Gura has a panic attack and start freaking out on mori calling her a fat disgusting bitch and a connor cum socket. Mori then goes twitter and doxxes with nfsw videos of her rm getting fucked at the party.

Mori gets fired from hololive and loses her universal studios jp deal and is also sued by gura and cover for compromising gura identity.

wrong picture, OP

>>32249805
>Mori collabs with StarsEN and TT
>Still will get more preference than Gura within the company

>>32250234
If gura wanted to go mori route she'd have bigger people than trash take requesting her

>>32250234
>Still will get more preference than Gura within the company
I mean, of course she will, she's in Japan.
>>32250369
Like Belle Delphine?

>>32250369
Sadly Gura is a lazy bitch who hides behind the "idol" pretense to milk simp bucks instead of being a passionate and hard working musician

>>32229442
at least aqua is cute

>>32230063
I choose both

>>32249529
if half of this, the would axe the branch as Gura would sue Cover into insolvency

>>32246620
hey don't blame LL for idolfagging blame im@s for starting it

The lazy blob of holoEN

>>32229227
The Cute and Funny of HoloEN
ToT

>>32250562
Mori's music is shit

>>32229998
Based beyond belief. Unicorn faggotery isnt the same as idol culture

>>32229998
This is why I'll never take the "idolfags" on this board seriously. They're just a bunch of unicorns that hijacked Idol and vtuber shit.

>>32246249
>Do you expect me to write a whole book
You've currently written two fucking novels in this thread anon, not that anyone wants to punish themselves and read your entire schizo manifesto.

>>32241614
Cool, so the JP definition of an idol 10+ years ago is no longer relevant in the modern era. Well, now there's a new use for the term it that's applicable in 2022. Sorry but the word "idol" existed as a word and concept before the JPs took it for their use back then. They're using it in a somewhat different manner now, but still believe the core meaning of the word applies. Sorry but things change, they can both exist as idols in different eras if the core concept still applies. I wouldn't say it's the most "clean" answer, but that's the nature of it.

>>32229227
Sora loves Stars. Both the JP and the EN. She's a normal straight well adjusted JP woman. She's the complete opposite of Gura. Comparing her to a diaper using filthy stinkhole neet like Gura is an insult to everything Sora has built.

Gura is just EN Shion. But less sexy

>>32248794
This. It just shows that most chumbuds are newbs who know nothing about hololive before Gura.

>>32265561
True. Idolm@ster and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

Sora is beyond reproach. Gura is obviously a gigacoomer barely holding it together.

>>32241614
Really interesting post. I only know idol culture as an idea forced by hololive fans as I never really got into that kind of music before.

>>32268833
How so?
Its core of it.
>I have a gf, so i dont care
Good for you, anon, but we talking about false advertising here, not about your personal life.

>>32241614
Sounds like your old version of idols was a very cucked experience. Enjoy watching them pleasures ojisans though, whatever floats our boat.

>>32250369
At some point you have to just realize that Gura doesn't have the work ethic to do with Mori does. She will never drop an album. Plus as she's getting older, she's neglected her singing, and has actually gotten worse as a singer compared to a year ago.

>>32229932
this is the most schizo rrat i've ever seen

I honestly don't give a shit if Gura's an actual idol or not, I just love the shark.

Gura is not actually very cute compared to many vtubers.
Nor is she very smart.
Nor funny.
Nor good at games.
Nor good at singing.
Nor is she hardworking.
Nor does she watch anime, or really know anything about anime/manga.
Nor does she do anything creative.
Nor does she appreciate her fans very much.
Nor does she like streaming.

>>32272908
cry harder nerd huhaha

>>32250369
Mori is a bona fide workaholic, almost the polar opposite of gura

>>32268129
Not an argument. Idols are just a step from superstardom. Of course you have to hone your craft, which Gura has done nothing to do. She still sings the same, tired "cute girl with guitar song"

gura does not talk with males
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqiNH2ynr1w&ab_channel=piripirichi

>>32273517

Unironically kill yourself

>>32229227
>>32230063
You cumbuds are getting real cocky lately, learn your fucking place before you try to insult Sora.

>>32278093
we have two possibilities here:
>you're a newfag and thus unable to distinguish between the actual fanbase and an obvious falseflag.
or
>you're samefagging
both options result with the same outcome: you're fucking retarded.

>>32229998
and you're insulting a bunch of holos who choose not to do that, you're saying their opinions don't matter because of this cringe weeb word called daisenpai?

>>32229998
tempiss newnigger gura already mentioned roberu and once gave her reaction to izuru's apperance, these are sora-tier interactions you fags so smugged about
come back when sora gushes over men and craves their dick while doing hololive job live on stream

As a unicorn I'm so proud of my virgin shark wife for being the savior of Hololive EN.

>>32279001
>tempiss newnigger gura already mentioned roberu and once gave her reaction to izuru's apperance, these are sora-tier interactions you fags so smugged about
>come back when sora gushes over men and craves their dick while doing hololive job live on stream
Sora regularly visits the star's channels and interacts in chat and on twitter. Simply mentioning two stars existence isn't at all the same thing, nigger.

ITT seaniggers doing seanigger things.

>>32229227
Primitive, but effective bait.

>>32278505
I choose the 3rd option, you astroturfing when you know full well it isn't ''false flagging'' you chumbuds are unhinged and always have been.

>>32280324
They're delusional disrespecting sora comparing her to their lazy shark whore.

>>32280324
All these posts are mine and I'm a teamate.
I'm not falseflagging because I say so

>>32249365

It's not Gura's fault (or a bad thing) that she was already had a huge following from her previous channel.

>>32280085
You're welcome. Take a moment and thank STARS EN for motivating you. Remember Gura has to ask them too collab they will never ask her.

List of good things The Boys have done:
>caused another Teamate NTR Arc Teamates were getting full of themselves
>forced Gura to become the seiso idol she was destined to be
>forced Gura down the righteous path of becoming Japanese
>caused another Mori timeloop once again she is getting away with it
>actually streaming even while sick and sleep deprived because they just love gaming
>showing that a group can have good chemistry despite timezone differences
>showed it wasn't my wife (girl(boy(girl))) Omega's fault council flopped
>Mag corrected Nijisanji's new wave so badly iluna appears in Tempus chats and replys to them on twitter outright advertising for them
>restored seiso culture
>live so rent free in anti schizo heads they they dream of Tempus gangbanging their oshi
>restored the proper ecology of fear causing Unicorns to live in fear any second their oshi will collab with them in turn causing the Unicorns to try harder for their anime woman
>sided with the shippers and even outright encourage fanfics of themselves
>"I'm going to stream 12 hours of minecraft just because I can also my tummy hort. Welp 12 hours is up oh hi Axel sure I can spend another hour collabing with you and the boys!"
>feminization and bimbofication of Ouro Kronii(in progress)
>Calliope Mori Tomboy Reversion therapy
>brightened Pochimaru's day and made her smile
>forged the Stars-ID uber alliance
>recieved Sora's blessing
>still here

>>32278553
I did not insult anyone in that post, nor did I say that their opinion doesn't matter. I just stated that Sora, who supports all her coworkers regardless of branch and gender, who has had many music releases, who has held many concerts in which she was the star, who has shilled hard and made connections for her company, who has grown from nothing is one of the clearest examples of a classic idol in Holo. Whereas Gura seems to think that merely ignoring men in her company, releasing a single orisong and featuring in a couple of concerts as a guest is enough to make her into a bonafide idol, when the interacting with men part is irrelevant, and it's the releasing music and holding concerts part that holds the most weight, followed by shilling and making connections for your company (And she's notoriously bad at shilling, and as an antisocial introvert making connections is hard for her).
To put it simply, you have idols who do enough music and concert appearances to barely but still qualify as being one, like Gura, idols who put out a good amount of music and concerts and shilling and connections, like Kiara, and then you have the idols like Susei and Sora who I don't think I need to explain.
Those are all just descriptions, and someone being more or less of an idol or choosing to not engage with certain parts of being an idol doesn't make their opinions irrelevant. But it can come off as somewhat conceited of Gura to double down on describing herself as an idol now when all she's done is ignore males (which doesn't even matter) and make a couple of concert appearances (which does matter and is a good step forward).
Also, "a bunch of holos" must refer to EN, because JP holos despite some, or most of them ignoring males still do more idol activities. So they're idols. Male-ignoring idols, but idols nontheless.

>>32230386
That's the doing of twitter troons and twitchthots with animated avatars, neither of which actually watch vtubers.

>>32229227
Why was she malding when calli finally shot her down?

>>32249273
>"idol culture" =/= GFE no matter how many times unicorns try to spin it
Lmao way to out yourself as a threadreading twitter troon that you'd even try to attribute the confusion of gfe and "idol culture" with unicorns and not instead with your own tranny kind you know nothing about idols, vtubers and certainly nothing about hololive.
Go back

>>32229227
Holy chumkek delusions