/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>30233686
why do you browse 4chins with the fallout new vegas color scheme?

>>30233686
Good job Holosister! Defend the multimillionaire digital property online for free!

>>30233686
I don't know who this post was about but they are fucking stupid. Imagine if actors insisted on owning the IPs of the movies they acted in.

>>30233686
>Hank Azaria quits The Simpsons
>Gets to take the characters Moe Szyslak, Chief Wiggum, and Comic Book Guy away with him
"And now instead of working at my cushy comic book store, slurping Squishees and scamming 10-year-olds out of their allowance, I'm a background character in a cartoon nobody has ever watched; American Dad.
Worst. Contract. Ever."

>>30233686
Who's PJK and where do I shit on her?

>>30233686
Honestly, at this point I hope she accomplishes her dream so this whole industry can die. Literally the only thing that was remotely appealing about anime girls doing anime things is they were part of an anime and not just e-girls who didn't want to show how fat they are on their masturbation streams.

>>30233807
Only visited that board to get this screenshot and my dark mode add-on fucked up the theme

>>30233686
Why would I thank an incompetently run company that can't retain any of it's talent or defend them once a little bit of drama happens?

>>30233686
I have no idea who to side with since i hate them both

>>30234156
imagine if musicians could own the rights to their own discography... OH WAIT !

>>30234109
>>30233686
>Talents should be able to take the model, even though the company pays for it, the artist, the rigger, setups time for practice for 3D concerts and the many merchandise deals.
You guys are about as dumb as Coco if you think she has a point. Unless she makes the model all her own out of her own pocket, the argument would hold true, but she didn't do that. That's like saying you should be able to do your own spider-man comic after leaving Marvel just because you made one of the best comic versions of the character. That's not how it works. That is what is called work-for-hire. The company owns the character because they paid for it.

>>30233807
Browsing 4chan almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
>Cause I've got spurs that jingle, jangle jingle (jingle jangle)
>As I go riding merrily along

>>30233686
Did Kson commission the Coco model herself and pay for it? Then why should she have the rights to keep it just because she was paid to play the character?

>>30233686
Not gonna defend a company that can sue every anti with the money they milked from thousands of lonely beta fags with cheaply made merchandise

>>30233686
That worked really well for Cyberlive didn't it.
...I could understand if it were a model they bring into the company and leave with it when they go, but letting people use you as a booster for a year or two then fucking off is a nonstarter for me, that's just bad business practices.

>>30234325
Kanada

>>30234570
You're right anon, artists should all own the studios they recorded their music in!

>>30233686
Dumbass westerner putting her nose where it doesn't belong and trying to ""solve"" things because they make her feel sad. What a dumb bitch

the problem is this would incentivize any mildly successful chuuba that doesn't need their Corpo for stuff like idolshit, concerts or merch, whether it's because they just stream or are resourceful, to graduate, keep their model and make more money

>>30233686
I was going to make a rebuttal to that statement, but then I realized that this is a Holo tribalfaggotry thread. Fuck off.

>>30235168
The thing is it just wouldn't work, the companies wouldn't exist for them to steal their models from. Nobody would be retarded enough to fund that.

>>30234618
I don't necessarily disagree but with the amount of money the talents then earn for them and how much of it gets withheld, you could consider that payment for the model.

He's doing it! Mag is mogging Gura lets fucking goooooooooo

>>30235311
If that was the end of the working relationship then sure, but it isn't.

The actual trade is this:
>Cover: gives you a platform, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of fans before you say a word, and (IF YOU ACTUALLY STREAM) you're almost guaranteed to be financially set for life.

>In return: they own the IP and get a share of the money.

It's not that complicated. If a chuuba can't handle that, they should leave, which Coco did. So, good on her but it's still an immature position.

>>30233686
It will never change ever. The closest example of this is the wrestling industry. It has been proven time and again the company owns the characters even if the actor put 90% of the work into the character it still belongs to the company. Really though if Cover was smart they would just continue to monetize Aloe, Rushia and Coco on merch and cut them a check just like the WWE does with wrestlers they fire.

>>30234570
Musicians don't own their work when they do 'work for hire" work.

>>30235275
I could see it if after like 5-10 years you graduate you could be allowed to keep or buy the rights to the character but it certainly shouldn't be the norm but rather a reward for someone who worked hard for your company

>>30235605
Using this same analogy, it's been proven time and time again that the talent only got as popular as they did because of the company that they were with, and as soon as they become indie, their talent wasn't enough to pull them back to the numbers they were at.

>>30233686
>life can be taken away
What? it's not like people didn't know who she was, I was literally one of the anons that knew the moment she oppened her mouth as Coco, it's not like she has any range like Rie Kugimiya or something. Same with Nazuna I know VTubers like to act like PL don't exist and all but people aren't stupid and will just follow you to the next whatever like EXACTLY what happened to her and Nazuna, I mean yeah there's a few idiots who will miss out but majority of fans that pay know.

I mean I understand her but she's exaggerating in a few places too so I can't take her seriously

>>30235050
Wut? all you need is to buy back or sue for your label to get your master recordings and the distribution rights to your music are yours this would be equivalent to Coco buying her model back from cover.

>>30235275
didn't Tsunderia got fucked because of this?
like Lumi getting to keep her model and shit

>>30234401
The brand is bigger than any one talent. They'll gladly throw one under the bus to save everyone else.

>>30235965
Tsunderia was a sinking ship from day 1

>>30233686
Yeah I'm afraid that won't ever change. If you go corpo you gotta accept both pros and cons. I get that it's shitty having to abandon the persona you've found success with, but without the platform they provide you, it wouldn't be worth keeping it in the first place.
In short, had she stayed Kson she wouldn't have this issue to begin with, nor she would have the recognition she has now.

So she wanted to just keep everything the company gave her and then run away, cutting them off from the profits? What's in it for the company?

>>30235646
What the fuck are you talking about they sign away the rights to their masters to the label and the label gives them a royalty check which is a percentage cut but it isn't unheard of in the music industry to get your masters back, Taylor Swift literally did so along with a bunch of other big name recording artists.

>>30234841
this is backwards.

coco and cover should have no rights to the model. it's the artists.

>>30233686
> Rushia's termination
> every memory for fucking 3 years was destroyed by single mistake.
> Fandeads who totally innocent but suffering most of all.
> Mikeneko's antis from Holobronies are hunting her down for brand.

> Kson made impossible become possible by create a sanctuary for her friend. Rushia can meet Fandead in another universe

I understand Coco and Kson now.
She really is the Jesus of Vtubing.

>She are hated by helping people

>>30233686
OP literally does not know how companies work.
Retarded or ignorant?

>>30236379
cover bought the model from the artist, that's literally the contract and why the model was made

>>30236198
a percentage of superchat earnings and merch sales? which they wouldn't have had if someone hadn't put work in to be entertaining?
(I believe in worker control of the means of production)

>>30236403
holy ESL

>>30236599
guess what commie, indie vtubers exist and they have full control over their own shit
Kson willingly joined a corporation and signed a contract

>>30236186
>just roll over don't change anything just keep the status quo
Pretty cuck behavior if you ask me.

>>30236379
Cover paid for it, so it's their model now. It wouldn't exist in the first place if they hadn't paid for it

>>30236602
he's the one unironic chink coco/kson white knight in every thread related to her
i think he has a system that notifies him whenever someone mentions her

>>30233686
I won't thank them because they didn't do it for my sake or anyone else's. I will, however, express relief that Coco didn't get to haul her model over to vshojo.

>>30236186
What if Hololive betray her first?
> banishment room
> No sponser, No Hologra
> Collab ban
> Add Antis to mod and she must unban by herself.
> made her overwork and had half- paralysis.

Coco never expect this

>>30236779
Corporations are just worker cooperatives that have not embodied praxis yet.

Taiwan (the Republic of China) is the legitimate Chinese government. The current communists in charge are an illegitimate group of gangsters who took advantage of the war with Japan to seize power for themselves.

Thank you Cover for not allowing that hoe to get away with everything. It's as if wanting to destroy the company that made you is a bad decision. Not to mention the fucking company that keeps churning out vtubers that people like.

>>30236817
This is my duty to only speak the truth of Kiryu Coco/ Kson. This is my holy crusade to passage of time.

I will say it again,
She is love's embodiment incarnated.

>>30236302
You have to buy them back, just like some Vtubers have done too

...Why was this even posted on /u/ in the first place?

>>30237102
This fucker think Kson really want to burn the place Kanata and her friend live on?

>get into Hololive
>immediately get hundreds of thousands of subscribers thanks to the brand
>end your contract asap
>you keep the character, model, audience and money. casual viewers will still mistakenly think you're in Hololive.
>cover gets nothing
I wonder why things are the way they are...

>>30237099
Correct chinks suck. Also Coco is a dumb bitch white woman that never belonged at Cover and the company is better off without her. She's far better off in a company of whores

>>30236198
It would work just like a normal talent agency works with real people, the problem right now is that if the company wants something to be done they can literally hold the vtuber hostage as they know they’ll lose everything they have (fanbase/model) if they don’t comply. Letting someone keep the model would only give them more flexibility to be able to negotiate their position better and lead to a slightly better situation for the streamer. Currently there’s nothing they can do, and can only abide by what the company asks of them or they’ll get de-personed. Plus the company might have payed or the model initially but a huge part for a vtuber’s success is the person playing the role, just look at Sana.
Plus the company gets a lot of their revenue and money from merch sales, a big cut our of sponsorships, etc. It’s not like they’d be getting nothing out of it, they currently call absolutely all the shots, this change would allow the vtuber to have at least some kind of power over their identity to negotiate at times.

The only thing Kson is trying to do is give the streamer a bargaining chip so the situation within the industry can be a bit better for for streamers, you’ve seen how many stories are out there when a company fucks over a talent and they can do nothing else but just graduate and have their entire existence cleaned out from the Internet (not necessarily talking about Coco/Hololive here, but other companies as well.) Having your entire career just wiped in a matter of seconds isn’t fair,and supporting this kind of thing just shows how backwards the way of thinking is within the vtuber community now. You can’t even compare it to normal idols, they keep existing as themselves even if they graduate and can pursue acting or normal singing careers, you get to see what they did before that, but vtubers have everything erased and it’s difficult for many of them to prove who they were or to move onto something else without losing many of their fans.

>>30236779
Hololive 2018 -2020 =/= Hololive 2021-2022

We came from talk shit to Hololive's management era to saluting them like god era.

>>30237093
You are just a cell collective that hasn't embodied several bullets yet

>>30237600
That's a very mean thing to say

>>30237771
This

>>30237822
ogey

>>30237472
She just did LMAO. Dumb SEAfag can't comprehend that Kson wants to end corpo vtubers and she still hates Cover.

>>30237595
>specify a length of time on your employment contract
>hit em with a non-compete
>you have to work for us for a total of X years or pay a fine of $$$ if you decide to void this contract
problem solved.

>>30238000
It's correct though, all she did after joining was try to force everything to be her way like an annoying white woman. She never had any place at a decent company

>>30237600
Go back to sucking chick cock anon, your masters are waiting

>>30238244
>cover
>decent company
When you pull in cash and business like she did then yeah, you can throw your weight around

>>30237472
She wants these standards so she can destroy Cover without hurting Kanata, not realizing that it will hurt her even if she doesn't lose her model

>half- paralysis
>Jesus of Vtubing (exact capitalization)
>other christ analogy babble
Thanks for trying everyone but Pagpagliacci has started his shift in the thread, no meaningful discussion can happen in the midst of ESL gish gallop

>>30236803
You do it every day.

>>30238348
*chink
Fuck

>>30238410
What the fuck is a Pagpagliacci

>>30238467
KEK'd

>SEA wakes up
>kson anti threads pop up
every single day

>>30238094
Fuck off, She want to create a sanctuary for Vtuber who was terminated by corporation and want their's legacy live on in another universe.

In normal circumstance, Mikeneko will be kill by Holobronies and Fandeads will never meet her again. Kson helps them to meet Rushia in the other place.

She just gave bargainship to her friend's in Hololive thet if Cover fuck them up like they did to Coco and Rushia. They have consequence for bad management now

>>30238720
gotta pay back those belt and road loans somehow.

>>30235859
How is ownership of the thing you created the same thing as ownership of the thing loaned to you so that you could create? Are you retarded or just pretending? The argument would be ownership of the profits that continue to accrue on those old videos, and for all we know they do get that which is why particularly scummy girls have their material wiped. I mean, they still would have to keep paying royalties on a song to the girls if those girls quit.

>>30236817
Anon do your reps, some Taiwanese guys on twitter have a very autistic yet elaborated form of task force dedicated to patrolling sites like this one with the sole purpose of defending any figure that speak to their favor, it's the reverse CCP.

I need to look at the name again but somebody posted it on one of these threads a few weeks ago.

>>30238244
> This retrard really think Hololive is decent company when Covo joined?

LMAO

ESL The Thread

>>30238200
How many years? 5? 10? Would Kson have been happy to stick around that long? The point is people will start joining Hololive just for the exposure boost, intending to take everything and bounce as soon as they're allowed. Not good for the group.

>>30239017
>Covo joined

>>30239004
I wouldn't have believed you if it weren't for the post immediately underneath you, holy shit

>>30238407
No, anon you are wrong here.
She want Cover to treate talents better unironically. She sent message clearly that " they have a place I created for them if you misjudge them now"

>>30238393
She couldn't, they figured her out quickly and neutralized her. She didn't put in enough time to earn shit at Cover, she's a dumb American who think money means you have to do whatever she wants

>>30237190
Based schizo.

>>30239381
so true lmao

> Safe haven
> Vshojo is menhera, whores, and constantly has bad reputation across the world
> Kson constantly lying and had a breakdown after being caught by PJK LMAO

>>30239381
Yeah, her whole uninformed white woman bullshit idea of what would make things better, shut the fuck up

>>30239381
You'd maybe have a point if it was anybody but Not-Rushia anon.

>>30236302
Taylor Swift wasn't doing "work for hire". I'm talking about when, for example, a company pays someone to make a song for their movie or game. That artist does not own the copyright for that music. This I think is a far more similar comparison for vtubers, since they are being hired by a company for a specific role.

>>30237771
See >>30237595
It just wouldn't be feasible for a talent agency.
Besides, both Kson and Nazuna have hardly "lost everything". They still make a fuckton of money and are still solidly in the top .1% of the industry.

>>30238992
>How is ownership of the thing you created the same thing as ownership of the thing loaned to you so that you could create?
This would be equivalent to a major label giving you access to a recording studio. They did not create the singer's voice or talent or personality etc
all cover does is pay an artist and a live2D rigger and some light marketing materials. They don't even provide a streaming setup for fuck's sake.

>>30239553
Absolutely not true, it was thanks to her (and Miko/Korone/Pekora) that Hololive got big outside Japan. And she also made a ton of money for them in the meantime (#1 most supperchatyed in the world back then).
She was also the one pushing for HoloEN from the inside and the one who managed to change the status quo once by managing to negotiate not having her shit erased once she graduated (which helped Sana too as she is now an alumni as well and her channel will be left untouched.)

>>30239906
Why would they join Hololive in the first place, then?

>>30239864
Those two managed as they were.top earners, but try and think about the smaller Holos, or other company’s talents, many of them wouldn’t make it without their model/fanbase.

>>30239906
Why don't they just pay an artist and a live2D rigger and do some light marketing materials themselves then?

>>30239827
That's freelance work under an independent contractor there is no chance in hell that is the case with vtuber agencies.

>>30233686
Kaichou... she's so brave, fighting for the rights of chubba, a better future

>>30235311
Kizuna ai had to buy the model from the company she started in.
Another example is Azuma Lim, my oshi

>>30240077
>>30240169
brand recognition(created on the backs of the talent)

Do we really need another timeloop thread where people pretend to be Japanese Shin'eitai?

>>30233686
So her endgame is... getting the Kiryu Coco IP from Cover Corp?

>>30233686
nah fuck this, letting people leave with the models brings a lot of people that join companies with bad faith just to get free resources

>>30233686
Corpo vtubers are a product, if you want to keep your model fund it yourself entirely or pay the fee.
It's that fucking simple, you're given a platform to stream on that's followed by millions, you accepted the terms and conditions.

>>30234570
>VA should own the character they voice

>>30240359
She probably can’t anymore, but she’s doing it so other current/future vtubers have a better chance at negotiating and a better work environment overall

>>30240175
Even if you are a permanent employee of company that makes games/movies/etc., you absolutely do not own the music you made for those projects. It has nothing to do with being an independent contractor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire

>>30239148
in case of most holos, the costs of the model, rigging and the iPhone would be covered after the FIRST monetized stream
anything after is pure profit

>>30239184
The funny thing about it its the fact these people were never intending to overwatch these threads, they only started appearing in here the moment kikeson moved to vshojo.

>>30233686
>join a company
>get a model provided by it
>graduate for some reason or another
>Nooo! you can't keep the model I was provided by joining company!
dumb bitch, want to have rights to your model? be like suisei and join with your own model or be an indie/make your own company
does she not realize that the model is not hers but companys intellectual property?

>>30240525
Not the same, and anime character is a one time gig while a vtuber avatar is them in every way, they live their lives through them and lose everything once they graduate. Anime VA’s at least get credited, vtubers don’t and the “character” they played gets erased, their career and years of effort wiped from the web.

>>30240347
But why don't they create brand recognition as an indies for themselves in the first place, instead of creating brand recognition for cover

>>30235311
See>>30240525
I guess if Nana Mizuki wants she should be able to take Hinata Hyuga to a different anime?

>>30240738
Someone asked during the stream if she meant wanting vtubers to be able to buy their model from the company, and she said that would be okay as well. She just wants vtubers to have some way of keeping their character.

>>30240498
yeah not to mention by getting in thorough corpo you are getting huge boost from a brand unlike if you went indie, and after that huge boost she also would like to keep the model? she's dumb

>A model that got made by a famous artist that you would never meet by yourself
>That in another timeline anyone could've been using it
>"NONONO ACTUALLY I DESERVE TO KEEP THAT"

>>30240359
She wouldn't be able to afford it if we're being honest.
Each Holo character is probably worth millions and Coco was never a sponsor magnet, she just had big SC numbers which is pennies for a company (Anycolor and Cover are both sponsor/merch/concert driven companies).

>>30234570
If they didn't write the music they literally don't own it

>>30240824
>the “character” they played gets erased, their career and years of effort wiped from the web
Only if they get terminated or if they wish for that (so the company doesn't profit off the character anymore)

>>30236379
The artist sold it to Cover. Who owns it now?

>>30241139
That’s not true, many companies just erase them due to that being the way they do things, not because the talent want it.

>>30233686
Oh so she thinking HololiveCN should have all kept their models and channels?
Cunt if you don't like it then don't sign a contract where you dont get to.
There are others out their that have left a corpo and kept their models.

>>30235707
only for pure streaming companies. Companies that dabble in media content creation like Hololive or Nijisanji would simply have to refuse selling any of their ip since its likely tied up in their own media deals.

>>30240824
>lose everything
>kson and mike had to scrounge their way back up from nothing, just a stroke of luck they got picked up by VS out of all other applicants
ok retard

>>30241295
LOL

>>30241320
Not talking about them, but about literally any other streamer who isn’t a top earner which is most of them

Do people actually think that corpo vtubers should keep their model and shit even after they leave the company? The characters themselves are literally owned by the company, the company is the one who commissioned for the character to be made and hired someone to then play that character. The people behind the characters and the characters themselves are also completely different, its like any other streamer really where they put on an exaggerated persona but in the form of an anime character instead.

The initial brand recognition is also a huge reason why the company technically owns everything, because under hardly any other circumstance would someone be able to get 100k+ subs before even creating content.

>>30233686
So basically she big regrets that only a small fraction of her fan base followed her over rumao

>>30241498
See>>30241320

>>30241498
I guess now they can all join vshojojp kek

>>30233686
>I want my cake and eat it too
>the absolute state of VshowWhores
Pay for development promotion of your own branding and IP, then you can keep your own stuff. But you will not get the buff and support that comes with being in a corp. It's a trade off there is no both ways about it.

>>30239770
We really not know what Rushia really leaked.

>>30234618
Nah, the company can't own the talent's name or persona, just the assets created for it. Coco can keep the name and commission a new dragon girl model. They don't even have "voiced by" credits, so courts would rule against the company keeping the name/concept.

>>30241696
Might be the case.

>>30241696
Basically. It gets memory holed but right before she graduated she went on a bit of rant about other members getting all these sponsorships and hated herself for feeling bitter about it and not being able to congratulate them.
She left over money.

>>30241696
It's a big spit to the face to indies who worked solo for aslong as kizuna started and still has never reach her numbers after hololive.

So many corporate bootlickers in this thread.
Somehow the American vtuber companies are actually better about content ownership than the Japanese ones. VShojo, Aetheria, Phase Connect, and Tsunderia all either give their talents rights over their model/character/channel or allow them to purchase it back when they graduate.

I'm a Nijifag but seeing L*l*'s entire channel deleted when she left only for her to come back with a near identical model made it kinda sad. She probably would've loved to keep her old content if it was possible.

>>30241525
The fact that they sign contracts detailing the ownership of the channel and model should be the end of the discussion, don't like the contract don't sign
If they want different condition down the line renegotiate the contract like anyone else would do in any other industry

>>30233686
Coco please stop tarnishing the memory I had of you. You might have brought the character to new heights but without cover advertising everything about you then nobody would have noticed you exist. In fact you're only successful now because your success carried over. Fuck the model, just be happy you got to keep your fans.

>>30241866
>We really not know what Rushia really leaked.
She leaked ayyy semen.

>>30233686
Kek
imagine turning this to a real world example
you quit your job but you bitch about not getting to take your company car or your van
this sounds fucking insane outside of vtubing but even then she sounds like a retard

>>30241748
They have to get popular through another promotion first before they can join TNA

>>30241843
B-b-but playing with legos and building Gundame models doesn't bring in Coco level dollars

>>30235311
that's not how the world works wtf?? It's like you working and with the money you earned the company you can take the pc in your office when you leave

>>30236859
>No Hologra
She was in them
>Collab ban
She had a whole fucking month
>Add Antis to mod she must unban herself
her fault
>made her overwork
no they didn't

>>30241959
Coco basically resigned right before Hololive started getting showered in sponsorships and merch opportunities. Imagine being on your way out right when the money faucet got turned on.

I'm going to repost this Flare cosplay because she deserves it.
Day 2 of crunchyroll was great Ina and Kiara panel was fucking amazing, cosplay/hololive meet up was amusing, and for me as a hololive super fan watching concert highlights in a room full of fellow dorks doing chants and waving light sticks was great. Wish it was a live concert of course, and I wish some of the crowd weren't so casual (I heard someone ask who Iofi was while I was vibing out to Q + A = E.
I just really wanna know what Yagoo was doing there, and I want an event completely focused on hololive in the states.

>>30241959
Fuck you and stop lying
>" I would stay if I choose money"

>>30240644
what about the costs of auditioning? The work hours put into checking them out, the manager work hours, marketing and legal work hours etc.

>>30241904
You fucking what? Do you think Cover doesn't legally own the name Kiryu Coco?

>>30242256
h-hag love?

>>30239004
>>30239184
komica?

>>30242300
And now she wishes she had chosen the money. Whats your point?

>>30242212
> This retard can't figure that Coco must dead so sponser can come in without worry about Chink cancellation like they did with Fubuki's figure.

>Retards arguing over a screenshot from /u/
Seriously. I mean... seriously?

>>30241904
???????????
Are you a dumb cunt?
No the fuck she can't commission a new character and name it Kiryu Coco

>No Hologra
>She was in them
>Collab ban
>She had a whole fucking month
After she announced her graduation.
>Add Antis to mod she must unban herself
>her fault
Cover’s manager did that.

>>30242435
Naw she was young, very nice, also had her full ass out on the back like Holy shit. Didn't take a photo of that though because we actually talked a decent amount about hololive and other cosplayers I saw, woulda felt bad creeping on her.

>>30242585
Yes I like to make rrats, how could you tell?

They're literally going into THE biggest company knowing full well that the character is Cover's property. They also go in knowing full well that the Hololive name essentially guarantees them a successful career.

There's a reason the no name indie vtubers flock to the big companies.

If they don't like those most basic of things, set out on their own and build themselves up from the ground with their own model. I guarantee not a single one of them could make it on their own without the notoriety from the company.

>>30233686
It's not her fucking model.

>>30242212
Nah, the faucet was already on. She was the top SC earner but the real "rich bitches" were marine/pekora/fubuki/aqua etc that had tons of those corporate collab deals

>>30236859
>No hologar
But she was in Hologar and even had asacoco commercials that basically out did hologar skits
>Collab ban
I guess having almost every JP and EN memeber on for fucking meme review never counted as collabs then?
>Add antis to mod
That's her own fault for being retarded
>Worked till half paralyzed
Also another big ol' false she did down a bunch of sleeping pills then started streaming like a tard tho.

Not even 5ch's Tatsunoko/Shin'eitai are this desperate to timeloop this hard

>>30242463
Coco fight her's numberfag until the end faggot. I will not telorate this shit

She use promoting and numberfagging for Hololive but not for herself. She even try to anti- numberfag herself because she did not want competiton with her friends! Faggot

>>30234570
Retarded take. Vtubers did not create the art or rigging. If anything the mama and papa should own the character fucking retard.

I'd like to give this entire thread a TOEFL examination.

>>30242463
That’s not it, she’s earning over 100k usd a month according to a recent interview, many holos don’t make anywhere near that

>>30242300
The channel is still up, it's not even a member stream watch it yourself retard. I think it's on her last zatsu

>>30233686
I quit playing Batman so I'm taking the ip with me

>>30242212
Coco must be dead or Chink will attack Goodsmile like they did with Fubuki's figurine.

>>30242778

>>30237771
If you're asking for this to be made an industry norm it will never happen, demand isn't on that side, and the law of profit isn't unless you have a 'prebuilt' audience to bring to the table to justify it. In Kson's world, only the already successful are allowed to join corpos, 2views can just die as indies because their short term potential isn't worth the long term risk. Obviously that's not what she envisions, but that's how it turns out. There is no paradise world where companies just give away ip like that to 2 views and survive against companies that don't.

>>30242896
You mistranslated her word faggot!!!
Learn Japanese right now!!!

>>30242643
My god, I envy you.

>>30235311
>you could consider that payment for the model.
No, that's the profit the company makes, which is the reason it exists. Nobody is here to break even.

>>30242124
>to make corpo moneys you have to play by corpo rules
Who knew

>>30242723
She would’ve gotten many sponsorship deals if it weren’t for the whole Taiwan thing.
Proof of it is also that Kanata once mentioned her managers told her she wouldn’t get sponsorship deals if she kept mentioning Coco’s name on stream, and that was one of the main reasons she calls her Yuujin nowadays, as her manager asked her to.

>>30242300
Don't you find it odd how she jumped into a new corpo despite claiming to take the indie route for "creative freedom" I mean yeah sure Vshitsho is basically as free as it gets while still attaching yourself to a big name but it's still funny how she only seemingly joined to leech growth for the cashe otherwise why bother since she had the "creative freedom" either way.

>>30242756
The ones who added antis as mods were management, she knew her fans and wouldn’t have done that herself.

>>30234318
American Dad is better than simpsons though.

>>30233686
all I'm getting from this is "fuck why did I leave hololive" seething

>>30243110
This....is sad to know

>>30233686
BASED COVER!!! I HATE KSON!!!

>>30242177
>take the pc in your office when you leave.
I totally didn't do that.

>>30243047
I guess she did in the long run otherwise why bother with Vshitsho?

Can you imagine being such newfags?
>>30242188
>>30242756

>>30243136
> Melody invited her for fucking whole year.
> She rejected or evade every time on stream.
> Rushia's termination in Febuary- March 2022.
> She decided to join with Nasuna in March 2022.

Rushia's termination always the key factor made Kson's join Vshojo.

>>30242300
>"it's only about talent freedom management is holding me back!"
>"indie4lyfe I'll never join another oppressive corpo"
>an entire year of the same content she was doing as a corpo
>joins another corpo
neat

>>30243182
>I-i-it has to be covers fault Coco knows her fans she's not retarded enough to make a mistake or a misclick!!!
Lol lmao

>>30243337
>>30243337
Wow, they are newfag

T. The Hololive ancient rite

>>30243438
Nice rrat I'm sure it had nothing to do with the dip in personal funds and realizing that being an indie with less than a third her original numbers was not conductive to maintaing the quality of life she had gotten used too

>>30243484
Mod antis can be human error but made Coco unmod by herself was totally malicious.

Watching chinks try to fit in with their ESL-ness is really entertaining.

>>30243110
So she joined a western agency that doesn't care about chinks and will try to get her sponsorships. Glad we agree then.

>>30243110
>Kanata once mentioned her managers told her she wouldn’t get sponsorship deals if she kept mentioning Coco’s name on stream


Could you give a timestamp for this ?

>>30243438
The ultimate saviourfag vtubing jesus.

>>30242417
Stupid question, if the company doesn't actually register the name, can the talent themselves steal it by register it on their own?
I was wondering about this because Niji don't register a lot of their vtubers

>>30243660
> This retard still think Coco who try to not be numberfag until the end for protecting her smile become numberfag.

Retard Schizo

>>30243548
thanks for the double (you) but I'm not gay anon, stop lusting after my cock

>>30243740
He can't timestamp what his power animal told him on an acid trip

>>30243707
>Its the bugman boogeyman
And totally not just
>Normal /vt/ users that realize she isn't Christ come again
Bugman cope is literally the weakest cope at this point

>>30243484
anon, you are just exposing your newfaggotry. Cover explicitly released a statement about it being staff fault.

>>30243820
They probably could, but I'm sure the company could take it to court.

>>30243898
I'm not talking about the people dissing Coco/kson, I'm talking about the taiwanese coco defense force that ARE treating kson like christ come again

>>30243842
Ni Hao!

>>30243898
Ok what about Seamonkeys boogeyman.

>>30238200
machinima?

>>30243842
>This retard still thinks money does not play any role in decisions working adults make
We get it you're a NEET ESL-chama

I still don't understand this woman. She could just stream as Coco one day a week and do everything she wants on her other channel. What was the downside of that?

>>30235311
>never ran a business chama.....
For every talent, company needs to pay for a bunch of support and take all the risk associated with it. Capital investments, promotion, initial startup cost, legal, HR, IT, management, assistants, etc. And that is before having to return on the investment of share holders. For every one talent you would likely need the equivalent of 3-4 supporting personnel doing the background tasks. There is no way that even with the amount of money that the talents earn that it can be considered payment for the IP of the company. This is before you consider that someone can leave rebrand themselves using what is essentially company IP and cause a bunch of confusion and damage to your brand because now some viewers will get them confused with your company.

>>30244045
They openly expose themselve because english is not in third world

>>30243707
They're actually Japanese/Taiwanese but they may as well be the same shit at this point. At least Korean schizos don't raid /vt/

>>30243740
It was most probably a member stream near the end of last year/early this year, or a normal ark stream around the same time. She talked about it twice but only mentioned the sponsorship thing once, let me check the archives for both and I’ll come back with a timestamp

>>30243898
sure....

>>30235605
>Vince announces he's 78 and despite roiding furiously he can no longer hack it
>turns out a few days later he was actually probably embezzling money
Kekwew.

>>30243811
She really is

>>30233686
>I don't own this character I didn't create and signed a contract to voice
>thank god I'm now in a corpo that graciously lets me keep the model I commissioned myself and do have legal ownership of
what did she mean by this?

>>30244389
She is very smart, and righteous

>>30244389
She probably feels bad for David hayter and Charles martinet

>>30244281
And if he ever shows up on RAW again he’ll still get a massive pop because mutts are fucking retards, especially wrasslin fans.
T.wrasslin fan.

>>30234109
>because the company is rich
>taking away something that belongs to them is only right
Sly tricks, smoothbrain.

>>30244233
>Still living in the past
Anon its time to move on no one cares about orange dragon woman but autistic reddit faggots

>>30244389
if she commissioned her model, it might actually not belong to her, it depends on the artist's tos

>>30244281
>a few days later
Story was running in major media for like a month before official retirement.

>>30244063
I never deny about revenue's important but ( You ) know already that Kson is finance self-sustain with or without Vshojo!

But Mikeneko not

>>30240824
> a vtuber avatar is them in every way
Except the didn't actually make or design the character... retard.

>>30244567
>autistic reddit faggots
???

>>30234109
Actual twitter marxist behavior fuck off commies or give Luna her old Niji model

>>30244446
Oh god no don’t make me hate Kojima again I have already memory hole’d Sutherland’s Venom Snake.

>>30244572
If she agreed to let Yaman have ownership of the model after all that then she needs a mental evaluation

>>30233686
Would she really want to walk away with Coco though with all the chink hatred and bad (and good I guess) memories that come with it?

>>30244652
Lmao do you think she has infinite money and bills aren't a fucking thing in nipland? Do you actually believe she saw a 5th of what she earned? Holy fucking shit its almost like you faggots literally live in a basement and think inflation is this thing that only happens in western countries or some shit

>>30240175
Bro, just stop humiliating yourself...

>>30245004
She get sponsership and sell out her merch and make a lot of SC's revenue.

What is your point?

>>30238452
underrated reply

>>30244500
I laughed when the /pw/ board was created because you didn't fit in on /sp/ or that other board for extreme sports and needed a containment board. You must truly be the jews of 4chan.

>>30245004
She hasn't gamble addict habit like her friends. She always smart about finance planning

>>30234841
The Coco model cost like $3000 tops. Probably less, for the original one at least, the rigging for her was garbage. She used it to generate at least a million dollars for Cover.

>>30243861
Go fuck yourself
https://youtu.be/j9pKHw6Bgqs
Membership stream, from 12:06~18:00 she talks in detail about it. How she’s the only one forbidden to say her name, and that she was warned because “she would not get sponsorships” if she kept doing so. Also said she was very sad, as she didn’t want Coco to become someone that can’t be talked about, but she has no choice. That’s why her manager told her to call her Yuujin if she was talking about her in the present, and only mention the name Coco is she was talking about her during her time in Hololive.

Daily reminder that characters should be and remain reflections of the chubas. Vtubers should own all their ups, downs, yabs, and struggles by remaining as themselves while growing throughout the years as longstanding legacy characters. Even if the only thing a vtuber brings to the table is an unmoving jpeg, those pixels set them apart from the rest by carrying the weight of their heart and soul.

Never forget that chubas who don't care about or protect their legacy, lore and identity are ultimately just ephemeral faces in an ever growing crowd.

>>30233686
Good thing Coco doesn't run any businesses since she has no business sense.

I'm surprised the apologists haven't dropped the Indog internet cafe image yet itt.
Maybe they got bullied into paying royalties for overusing that image and that's the reason they abstained from posting it so far.

>>30237093
You are using words you don't understand, you mouth-breathing idiot.

>>30234570
absolute retard take
do individual game devs own the IP they're working on? No, you fucking numbnut.

>>30240727
I always exist faggot

>>30233686
>She said it's not fair that someone's entire life can be taken away once they graduate
Bruh we're talking about people who stream videogames with a cartoon avatar. I like vtubers too but let's not pretend this is anything beyond a hobby that got huge. The idea that there are people who see vtubing as a serious job and leaving behind their body of work as a devastating loss need to go outside more. Aside from the vtubers that actually create things (like songs, illustrations etc) you're not leaving behind "art" when you graduate from your vtuber job of playing vidya and reacting to other people's OC.

This just kinda makes me hate VS even more. Imagine taking in talents that already built up clout under a different corp, just let them print money for you doing what they've always done then soapbox about how bad their "ex" was for holding them back

A stupid take:
>an actor for a character conceptualized, created, and provided by a corporation should gain full legal ownership of that character and take it with them even after they no longer perform as that character for that company and should be able to do anything with them that they want
A reasonable take:
>an actor for a character should be able to later advertise themselves directly and publicly as the performer for that character and a previous employee or performer for that company, and capitalize on their labor in marketing themselves for future work

>/u/
really? all those who commented before and after me are retarded.

>>30233686
>sad at the amount of hate
From where? Just chinks? I thought the wumao's had been dealt with. Is it coming from the 5ch or from holobronies?

>>30245726
Thank anon

>>30233686
Suisei owns her model though. She kept her indie self, although updated here and there, but it's still her own character. Should she leave Hololive, she still has her model to use.

>>30247193
>no one hated Vwhores for any reason before kson joined it's just chinks
Enjoying your first day here?

>>30235311
This
CORPORATE RATS NEED TO KILL THEMSELVES.
Imagine thinking it's not a scam having a talent making million dollars, and yet the corpo owns the entirety of the rights despite Holo clones models have been commissioned by independent 2view shitters
Vtuber corporations are worse than Jews, a literal fucking scam, making MILLIONS with models any independent can afford, using free software like OBS and Live2D, playing the same games any shitter can stream like Minecraft or Resident Evil. All because Holoshit and Nijishit appropriated the whole Jewtuber algorithm to only favor their shit companies.

God I hate vtuber corporations, they are a fucking cancer, appropriating the entirety of the vtuber audience for their own personal pockets.

>>30247613
We love Vshojo and pink cat before traitors join them

>>30247508
no, she is the owner of her character ¨suisei¨ the model belongs to cover. if she left hololive she would have to order another model since the one she made was lost due to an error in her pc.

>>30247694
And 90% your pure indies would not only kill to join niji/holo but also literally wouldn't exist if they didn't blow up and create the scene they trend hopped into.

>>30248741
That why Kson become indie
> She want to helping them

I know this is a bait thread but Coco's main problem was that she signed a contract to work under a certain set of conditions, and then Cover cover changed them, and as they owned her character there was literally no choice but to comply or lose everything she has built, access to her channels, videos, fanbase, etc. And the fact that they have the right to do that because they paid like a thousand bucks for a model a year prior is retarded.

>but muh voice actors don't own anime characters
The difference is that voice actors can advertise who they are. There are literally laws in the entertainment industry about properly crediting actors for their work. Cover's actors can't say who they are. They don't even allow the talent to have the dignity of telling their fans they are retiring from the role and where to find them in the future at the very end of their careers. They didn't even let her actually say why she was leaving. And after they leave they memory hole them, don't let people talk about them anymore, don't allow any interactions with them working as other characters. It's actually insane when you think about it, they're basically a cult.

>>30249708
I think they change their contract

>>30244233
Fuck bugs to hell but a broken clock is right twice a day. Cover could have cucked and even without firing her could have made her metaphorically 360° naked dogeza and looked the other way on the CN girls' transgressions. They chose to nuke the whole branch, give up bb bux, even other talents especially FBK and Suisei stuck their necks out who were getting fat paid from them. And she still quits and quits and another corpo. And not just any corpo, (she could have just walked through the door literally anywhere) but the corp whose entire JP marketing strategy is: hololive ba- err I'm sorry, "tAlEnT fReEdOm"
>whahhhh I'm not making as much as I did in hololive
get fucked. you paid $9000 for that bed, lay in it.

>>30249708
Kson taste it first hand but she thought about TW incident are her's fault but Rushia's termination change her view to Cover entriely.

>>30250346
>This retard still think Coco's dogeza can change anything.

You will never be chink

>>30250346
> " No, you're not sorry enough"
>" We accepet only your graduation"
> " Yagoo must resign from CEO position"
> " Fubuki and Haachama must terminated too"

You are Newfag

>>30250346
HololiveCN forced Cover's hand by became traitors and join force with antis

>>30250949
Ok my bad doesn't change the point that they cut themselves off from the entire market to protect one talent just for her to turn into a bitter ex anyway. I would argue she made things worse for the other members if they got caught up in a controversy; cover and other members might think a little harder about sticking their neck out again for someone who might just end up quitting anyway and low-key trashing them every chance they get
>she doesn't trash the talents
Yes she kinda does. By constantly implying how oppressive hololive is she implies anyone there is either too weak willed or stupid to leave like she did. Remember there's literally no downside to being in VS, they're saints who support wayward indies expecting nothing in return there's no reason not to join

>>30250346
Cover cut HololiveCN for Coco was just pure rrat. They never want to cut HololiveCN but HololiveCN want to cut tie with Cover and make them look like villianous in public eyes.

>>30252098
>to protect one talent
Four talents and the CEO. Did you read the post you replied to?

>>30249708
>Cover's actors can't say who they are.
You're acting like this actually matters with the amount of doxxfags who love to post roommate shit all the time

>>30241099
>worth millions
>completely unused now

>>30252098
No, you are wrong here.
HololiveCN cut tie with Cover "first".
They want to burn Cover and Hololive as whole.

Cover cut China for Coco is just a pure rrat

>>30252192
You are out of touch with how casual viewers are. Kson's streams still get random people who are amazed they finally found her again even though she's been active for an entire year now and literally everyone knows who she is.

>>30236009
They don't stand behind any of their talents and the only support holos can expect from corporate if they're ever unlucky enough to get sucked into real trouble is a pink slip.

>>30233686
I don't get why people hate that menhera... I mean she just joined the Avengers of Vtubing recently, with tech and staff far surpassing the likes of Nijisanji or Hololive, leave her alone for fuck's sake!

>>30252098
There is nothing about that in your screenshot
They increased their demands after several incidents, especial “Fk u and never comeback” which taunting them unnecessarily

>>30252160
>>30253256

>>30253256
It wasn't taunting, it was telling them exactly what they deserved. If they didn't want to get told to fuck off maybe they shouldn't have spammed her literally the night of the incident before she even knew what was going on. They had a spambot built before the suspension even.

>>30233686
Kson and Vshojo scammed Mikeneko and foreced her to stream on twitch, which killed all of her momentum

>joining a corporate to own the corporates
Genius lmao, no wonder she was fired

>>30252304
Rumao, what kind of ass backwards logic is that? The chinks requested the termination of Coco and Cover clearly chose to not comply.
They obviously did not take the initiative to dissolve the CN branch, but it's been a direct consequence of their choice. Hence they cut China for Coco, which is an irrefutable fact.

>>30253819
Nazuna is not a twitch partner, there is literally nothing stopping her from streaming on Youtube. She just doesn't want to.

>>30253849
Because Cover can't control HololiveCN shit in Bilibili anymore.

If Artia just not retard, Coco may be kill for HololiveCN instead

>>30254351
Anon...if you're expecting great feats of intelligence, vtubers aren't where you'll find them.

>>30253849
HoloCN didn't make any money, Coco did. If they wanted to not get fired, they should have just worked harder and been more successful.

>>30253676
Yes, you are right

>>30253849
Because Artia just retard and someone gave Artia spam discord's invitation and clip video as evidence of Artia's heresy to Cover directly.

>>30254593
That make Cover has enough evidences to kill CN branch for Cn's heresy but not for protect Coco.

After Artia Heresy, Terminate all corrup talents side in China was inevitable.

>>30233686
Kson is an idiot for joining Vshojo but she has a point. If I will not be able to own my own achievements and take them to my grave, then what motivation do i have for achieving anything at all? I'd just be an Ayame and do the bare minimum while waiting for the next paycheck. There is no motivation to be an innovator or pioneer because you can't even own yourself.

I hate Vshojo for its culture, but I will never join Hololive either, when I can't own the sweat of my brow.

But Coco and Rushia literally proved that the model doesn't matter, fans will follow you outside anyway as soon as you speak.
What matters is the holobox pushing, and as soon as she was out of it Kson's views have gone down.

Keeping the character means you want the benefits of the box without paying for it.

>>30255207
"Own my own achievements" ok have fun staying a 2view lmfao.

>>30233686
My understanding, there ARE some companies that practice this good will, like Miori Celesta's company before it dissolved.

>>30244218
Im still waiting anon, hope you can find it.

China won, coco lost, deal with this

>>30233686
>word word word
kshart is just trying to be relevant again by leeching Vshojo and Mikeneko. Thank fucking gods her views got cut in half after joining vshojo lol

>>30245726
Dang that's kinda fucked up not saying cover is a black company but they are much more cold than I thought.
Fuck, I thought the rrats saying they used the leaks as an excuse to fire Rushia was bullshit for her boyfriend drama was bullshit but now I dont know...

>>30255454
I'd rather be a person with few views but still innovates and pushes the boundaries, than an Ayame who is famous but just waits for the paycheck.

>>30255319
Coco and Rushia proved that Hololive is just a stepping stone. The illusion of family is bullshit. In fact it's the current meta to join a corpo first, use it to build a fanbase, then graduate while transferring the fans to your indie account. Kson may have lost a chunk of her fandom but the most loyal simps and ojisans remained. Mori is currently doing the same.

>>30233686
already happened with Lia and Yuri, their corpo self-destructed after. Not gonna happen.

Maybe Suzy can do this

I mean, she has a point. Kson can't sing Weather Hackers, for example. This is totally unlike a band member going solo, who can still acknowledge and perform their old material.

>>30233686
That's just retarded if true. It's hololives IP, no one is retarded enough to argue otherwise in good faith.

>>30236302
Taylor Swift literally didn't do so despite having enormous pull, and instead re-recorded all of them, you huge retard. She took a huge stand on this very issue (of Artists not owning their work and the vast majority not being in the position she's in where she could just re-record everything at her own expense) and you, a stupid fucking retard, managed to spin the exact opposite take from it.

>>30233686
Imagine the actor of IronMan said that after hes contract. He will get the character Ironman all for himself.
>Imagine what will happen to MCU

>yeah yeah, MCU and VTubbing is different (FAGGOT Argument)

>>30233686
That's... ridiculous. If it should belong to anybody it should belong to the illustrator and rigger and the talent should have to pay royalties to those two people if they want to use it outside of the company that commissioned their work.

>>30252836
Why'd she use that model?

>>30242022
Is Tsunderia really the company you wanna go with to show off the greatness of the American model?

>>30233686
Imagine arguing that Mark Hamill should own the intellectual property rights for Luke Skywalker because he played the character in Star Wars. It's arguably is identity as he was nobody before Luke Skywalker and he's a nobody after Luke Skywalker. Disney shouldn't be allowed to just take his identity away from him like that. That would be a fucking retarded argument to make and it's still unironically a stronger argument than the one being made here.
Cover created the character and commissioned the art. They then held auditions and hired someone to play the character. In what fucking universe should that person be entitled to Cover's intellectual property?

>>30256963
>In what fucking universe should that person be entitled to Cover's intellectual property?
They should be able to walk in 2 years. If a company hasn't made themself useful to a chuba over the span of 2 years, what right do they have to wine about a lack of loyalty? It goes both ways. Good employees expect good benefits. Got no loyalty towards your employees? Fantastic, don't complain when you get treated the same way.

>>30256893
All of them got to keep their models though. Their fans got to keep their oshi even though the company is in the toilet.
If Hololive ever went bankrupt all of you would lose your oshi and all her content. How exactly is the Japanese model superior there?

>>30233686
This is silly take coming from kson. "entire life can be taken away once they graduate" if this was true people wouldn't talk about her after coco died. The Vshojo model isn't way to prove that this way is better considering they only allow people with 6 digit followings join.

>>30256963
Funny you used such example when it would be better if Mark Hamil has control over Luke unironically.

She ever made them an offer?

>>30233686
kshit is just seething that the coco model was the only thing keeping her relevant. now that her viewership has gone in the tank, she's begging for her model back

>>30257277
>2 years
So Mark Hamill can have all the rights for Luke Skywalker and sure the entire corporations for using hes "Legally attained" Character and milk them to death?

>>30234318
Wait Hank quit?!

>>30236403
Cocucks continue to be cucks.
Low Energy. Sad.

>>30256893
Just to be clear.
>Urara
Quit vtubing was never a real member of tsunderia anyway
>Ria
became a rose
>Kana, Miori and Yuuna
They all owned their models before joining tsunderia
>Char, Kallin, Meru and Orla
Got to leave with their models.

Ever notice that Coco defenders have literally one card they play?
It is as follows: Scream loudly that any criticism is done by CHINKS/BUG/COMMIES
It's honestly rather pathetic

>>30257277
I agree they should be able to walk, but there's a big difference between leaving a company and leaving a company with a piece of property that you don't own and are not entitled to. That's what we're talking about here.
>>30257494
Better for Disney who paid billions for use of the Star Wars IP including its characters?

>>30235536
>>30235311
Saying the N word while using a character that used to represent a company you don't work for anymore and fucking up that company's public image and mindshare!

Can I get a link to her saying this? This sounds astoundingly retarded and ungrateful.

>>30256963
They aren't playing characters though. These models don't get recast. There's no new Coco Kiryu, it's not part of a broader work, it's a fucking avatar overlaid. Luke Skywalker isn't Star Wars, and Mark Hamill isn't Luke Skywalker intrinsically. The character was crafted before he existed, he was chosen to play it. You know very well that streaming is entirely different than acting in a story that'll happen whether you're the actor or not.

You're also arguing something really pointless, when what Kson wants to do is make this the normal practice, that vtubers working for corporations get to own the character. There's zero reason it can't work this way except that "that's not how it is right now" and going "haha imagine if actors were trying to say this about their roles!" is just fucking retarded for so many reasons that ought to be apparent based on how different these professions are.

>>30257785
It would probably be better for Star Wars fans.
Disney can go fuck itself. You're not gonna start shilling for the mouse of all things are you?

>>30257746
They used to brag about her numbers all the time, not anymore for obvious reason

>>30233686
Only suzy has the right to this.

>>30257562
Luke Skywalker is a scripted character. If all they gave him was some bath robes and told him to make the rest up himself, then you're damn right he deserves to be considered the one and only Luke Skywalker. Nobody else could Luke like Luke could Luke, because nobody else would be Luke. And because Luke is such a well known character, there's no way they could get away with trying to pass off another person as him.

It might've worked for Brave with Cocoa, but they're also irrelevant in the west, behind the curve, probably don't obtain explicit permissions in regards to all of their song covers, and got backlash due to their VA swapping scandal. On the other hand, comics tried the "replacing x with y" character shtick and got tons of backlash (and I've heard the big brands aren't doing so well) because people rightfully pointed out that new characters should just be new heroes instead of trying to shove a completely different person into a brand a different character's already built up.

>>30257785
>better for disney
Why do I want anything to be better for Disney or other enormous corporations exploiting the masses?

>>30257999
>what Kson wants to do is make this the normal practice
Then she should make her own character, join a corporation that will accept the fact that she owns the character, so that if she leaves the company, she will still have the full rights for the character
>Just... just... what shes doing now???
But she didnt make Kiryu Coco, she applied to be the voice of Coco, but she didnt own Coco
>Was is hard to understand?

>>30233686
Thank you based Cover management
I had no idea back then that you were always right

>>30233686
Coco's model was shit anyway. I don't think her idea here is bad and VShojo is a perfect company for her, but if she wanted to drag Kiryu Coco with her, that's just her being a grifter. The contract says they own Kiryu Coco and all the content done under the character. Simple as. Hololive got a massive buff in 2020 and people came in droves to give her money they wouldn't otherwise (her RM already was a flesh streamer). Simple as.

Other than meme review, I didn't find Coco's content entertaining. I'm baffled that she thinks she could keep the momentum if she took the rights to Coco. Meanwhile Suisei was out here starting as an indie, busting her ass off until she got into Hololive and STILL busts her ass off today. You put up or you shut up.

>>30258243
We can make all mental gymnastic all day here to prove who is right or wrong.

You wanna solve it?
Go ask kson to sue cover for taking her rights for kiryu coco
>If she wins, your right!
>If she lose, other party is right!

PS. she has Vshojo as a Big backer on her side (theres no argument of Corpor vs indie here)

>>30257746
You mean Hololiveniggers ?

>>30257999
>There's zero reason it can't work this way
You mean besides money right? Or did you forget about that little detail?
>>30258150
>>30258241
Stop being retarded. This isn't specifically about Disney. It's the principle of the matter i.e. if you create something and/or pay for the rights to something that has been created then you own it and can do with it as you please. Cover created Kiryu Coco. They created the character concept and commissioned the art. An actor playing a character should not feel entitled to ownership of that character just because they were hired to fill the role. They sold their services for the creation of the character just like the artists who drew the character sold their services for the creation of the character. It's no different.

>>30258247
>But she didnt make Kiryu Coco, she applied to be the voice of Coco, but she didnt own Coco
Are you sure about that? Do you know if she had any input on her own design? Hologirls have varying relationships with their illustrator and final product. Some work that way "here's your design and name, go get em" while some have back and forth about the design. Especially in later costumes. These aren't characters they're playing, it's a piece of art contracted out (sometimes at the direction of the talent) and then they go be themselves with it as an avatar on stream. Cover etc do a tiny fraction of the work in this. Do you think it should be this way? If so, why is it you think this should be the norm?

She wants to change the standards. She wants people to see why this is important. She's not just crying that Cover wouldn't let her, she moved on and is doing what she's doing, which is exactly this.

>>30258456
Anon... why you bite this obvious bait?

>>30258516
essay wont solve anything

go here
>>30258456

>>30258587
>why you bite this obvious bait?
I don't bite, I ride the bait anon

>>30257999
Coco is part of the Hololive Brand. It's a bad business decision to allow someone who does not care about or have a vested interest in your brand to use it. If Coco gets into some yab outside of Cover's control they get all the consequences of it and none of the rewards. Real world business operate in the way they do for a reason. Stop being a retard.

>>30258247
Newfag spotted.
Kson help Hololive design Kiryu Coco
All of HoloForce did

>>30258502
>You mean besides money right?
How do you suppose they're making more money from Coco or Rushia's designs right now? They make enormous amounts of money off their talents, they came out entirely ahead with both of those girls in terms of cost vs reward and it's impossible to not be so. Now, they're getting nothing. They aren't selling Coco and Rushia merch. They didn't recast those designs. They aren't even putting them in other merch as accessories. Occasionally a talent might put in a reference, maybe, in their own works they do for things.

They made more than enough money off them, and now they aren't. Coco existing outside of Hololive is zero difference financially for them right now.

>>30258688

>>30258184
Oh naturally her number as Kson tanked once the honeymoon period ended and afterwards were trending hard downwards before joining another corpo.
I expect a similar spike and tail-off for viewership and money to occur once more. It makes an argument that Kson looked at the numbers falling off and wanted another payday so joined Vshojo to get in the public eye once more. Expect some really hard dogwhistling to try and get people who aren't on 4chan/in the know about her being Coco to try and boost her numbers.

>>30258677
Coco isn't part of the hololive brand if she isn't part of hololive anymore, you retard. Is Demi Lovato a Disney Star right now? Selena Gomez? No, they aren't, and their actions don't reflect back on the network that they aren't a part of anymore.

>>30258677
What if Coco got to some yab inside of Cover's control but threw her under the bus?.

What if they made her life suffering and stole her smile by contract? Is it worth for you?

People bitching about Muh Star Wars never woke up to the fact it was never good. Just incredibly well marketed and having a merch machine that I think only Sunrise Bandai can match with Gundam.

>>30258456
It's not about legal rights, it's about common sense. The IP without her is literally just an empty skinsuit, and they can't even use it without looking like they're desecrating a corpse. Not letting go of a vtuber's model is basically just a massively petty "fuck you," and it looks unprofessional no matter how you spin it. CN should've also got to keep theirs, along with Rushia.

This is ultimately what contract lengths and noncompete clauses are for, as well as properly investing in their efforts, all to make sure a vtuber doesn't just cut and run. But aside from that, holding their skinsuit hostage as an act of pure spite doesn't exactly reflect well on the company's corporate culture.

>>30258854
Cocucks deflecting again. After all you're that butthurt that Reddit Dragon wanted her big payday and milked your wallets dry on the way out. Only to stab you in the back

>>30258734
>other people making money off of something that you paid for makes zero difference financially to you
Anon, you're a fucking idiot and I'm tired of talking to you

>>30258766
> She sued doxxer after graduation

Faggot

>>30257999
>There's zero reason it can't work this way except that "that's not how it is right now" and going "haha imagine if actors were trying to say this about their roles!" is just fucking retarded for so many reasons that ought to be apparent based on how different these professions are.
Except it's not her intellectual property. Simple as.

>>30258860
Oh, come on. The first and second movies are great. The Empire Strikes Back is a classic.

>>30257549
Having the model back wont do shit for her, her entire "career" is predicated on joining the right company at the right time. Everyone's fondest memories of Coco were Asacoco (a show where she made jokes about other hololive members) and her collabs with other hololive members. Getting to call herself Coco again isn't going to make her solo streams good. She had the best restart to her indie career a vtuber could possibly ask for by receiving arguably a better avatar and being princess carried well past 1M subs again by saviourfags, and she pissed it away with low effort garbage like more reddit meme reviews (another stream idea that was carried by her hololive coworkers in the past).

>>30258908
>not about legal rights
LMAO this guys keeps on changing goalpost
Dont you think its time to be out of the internet already?

>>30258951
>you paid for
>(you), a large corporation
>that paid peanuts for a piece of art
>while making a gorillion dollars off your successful talent
>B-B-BUT CONTRACTS
guess what retard, I can say "it shouldn't be that way" because I have morals.

>>30258927
> this retard still think that we love her because of branding not talent herself.

>>30259006
Right. And she's saying "hey guys, the norm should be the talents should own the IP of the character." Argue why it shouldn't be that way, now that you've caught up with the very first post of this thread.

>>30258908
>It's not about legal rights, it's about common sense.
That last time I heard that is when Palestine still owns their entire land.

>join a company that gets bankrolled by said company.
>UH WHY CAN'T I KEEP THIS
She's living in a fucking dream world.

>>30255769
Sorry, replied to a schizo with the link and timestamp earlier but forgot to tag your post
>>30245726

>>30255995
Believe what you want, anon. They closed down their chinese branch in response to the zhangs' hurt feelings from the whole Taiwan incident. She chose like a big girl to take a stand against the bug men to cover Haachama's ass. Obviously they wouldn't want to invite more antis to attack their other talents.

>>30259043
>arguably a better avatar
Coco was a more iconic character, and I think all her fans would probably shove kson back into the orange dragon suit by force if they could.
>>30259170
And your point is?

>>30235536
That argument holds no ground if you consider the talents that build this corporate platform and the reputation up in the first place have no rights to their character either. I mean fuck, cover even demanded the money for the iPhones back so they could use their shitty app. They are a garbage company that's being 100% carried by the talents and considering how incompetent the suits in there are the power balance is just pure garbage.

>>30257277
You can argue that 2 years is great time to reward loyalty by giving them models for the people who started the brand from the ground like 0th get and holostar but giving the models after 2years for gen 4 and above is just retardation since they are leeching from the brand rather than the opposite.

>>30259240
And now she flashes her tits and ass on stream expressing all the creative freedom she never had under Cover's thumb.

>>30259152
There's nothing to argue. It's Covers IP, not hers. There is 0 reason for the norm to be the VA owns the IP of the character.

>>30259314
Right, they're leeching from the brand. And the only reason they'd leave that brand behind is if the company behind it was godawful to work for. That's a corporate culture problem, not a vtuber problem.

>>30259056
>while making a gorillion dollars off your successful talent
You're a fucking moron. How much money did she make? Was it slave labor? Was Cover holding her hostage or was she doing pretty goddamn well for herself?
Fuck off with your "morals". Disregarding what is right and wrong just because one party is a corporation and the other is an individual is not having morals. It is the opposite of morals. It is entirely devoid of morality. Individuals are not inherently good and right nor are corporations inherently evil and wrong. If you paid for it, you own it no matter who you are.

>>30259240
>She chose like a big girl to take a stand against the bug men to cover Haachama's ass.
This is not a thing.

>>30259240
I believe that Cover want to fire Coco and Haachama very very much but Artia's heresy made Cover can't turn blind eyes to HololiveCN betrayal.

Cover was forced their hands terminated HololiveCN. They put Coco in banishment room and made her volunteer graduation.

They may lost Coco but exchange with Chinks stop fuckink spam are worth it.
They can spaming Fubuki all they want.
Cover not care

>>30259240
>They closed down their chinese branch in response to the zhangs' hurt feelings from the whole Taiwan incident.
This alone is enough to understand what Cover's stand is
And yet Kekson apologist keep on insisting that their oshi is an anime protagonist that will topple down corporate evil.

>>30259295
This is true

>>30259470
They wanted to fire coco but never wanted to fire haachama since ehr father owns shares in cover.
But they couldn't do that since it was both haachama and coco, if it was haachama on her own nothing would've happened, if it was coco on her own she would've been fired on the spot, they couldn't fire one and keep the other so they just kept both and let the zhangs do their thing until coco was out

I want to put that guy who posted that Star Wars sucks in the chair from A Clockwork Orange and force him to watch The Empire Strikes back. Hat's all I have to add to this thread.

>>30259403
>There is 0 reason for the norm to be the VA owns the IP of the character.
Tell me why you believe that. You're starting to get to the point now.

>>30259418
Thinking I'm disregarding them because it's purely a corporation vs an individual is retarded. I'm disregarding Cover because there is zero reason beyond greed. It is morally wrong. They gain nothing from this. The cost, ownership of the art, it's pointless. They will not profit a single cent more from Coco or Rushia or Sana because they aren't using them anymore.

It's not morally wrong because they're a corporation. It's morally wrong because it's greedy.

>>30259472
Cover can't control HololiveCN and Artia just retard build spam discord and send stupid demand like she is terrorist.

When Cover had evidences about Artia's heresy. HololiveCN is finished.

If HololiveCN not corrupt by Bilibili and Nationalist, Coco and Haachama are dead instead

>>30259431
Whether or not it is or isn't. It's just something I see get regurgitated a lot.

>>30259712
>Tell me why you believe that.
See my previous post. You're starting to get to the point now.

>>30259778
So you believe there's 0 reason for the VA to own the IP of the character because they don't own the character? Damn anon, I knew I was wasting my time with you, but you're definitely the dumbest poster in this thread.

>>30259840
No, that's you arguing ethics in a matter that has nothing to do with ethics, and then completely disregarding posts that completely shut you down.

>>30259417
>corporate culture problem
Yeah and unfortunately corpos expect you to stay regardless of the changes made by the corpos itself or the external situation, in the end, there is no (small) scenario where the corpo and the talent can part way amicably and continue doing business by giving them the model.

>>30259712
It's morally retarded to expect to own something that a company rents out to you. Just because they get popular from a talent's endeavors means jack shit. Unless they get it written into their contracts - it's greed on the talents part to expect their model to be handed out to them to use after all is said and done.

>>30259890
The argument has been, from the OP, "I want the norm to be Vtubers owning their own model." Not "bawwww why didn't cover let me keep my model."

>>30259712
>It's morally wrong because it's greedy
But it's not greedy for an actor to feel entitled to the IP that they didn't create and don't own so that they can continue making money off of it? That's not greedy in your mind because she's an individual and Cover is a corporation. It's that simple whether you choose to see it or not.

>>30259925
>that a company rents out to you
It's retarded you still aren't getting the argument is changing this practice.

>>30260011
Now read the posts you've made. You'll see your mistake.

>>30260034
>that they didn't create
yeah they did. The person behind the avatar is responsible for 99% of profits created by that person, and the "IP" is themselves as that's the product being sold. That's blatantly obvious to literally everyone.

>>30260125
I've made no such mistake. Keep rambling on about Star Wars and actors like they're Vtubers thought.

>>30260136
They didn't create it. Full-stop. That's obvious to everyone but the morally bankrupt who want the cash cow to continue to give them milk.

>>30260190
You have, and you're stupid for believing you're arguing with the same person when you have multiple replies. Keep on rotating between the 3 arguments you've failed to keep track of in your head.

>>30260251
I'm glad you understand how it works right now, now check this out: you can make contracts where the Vtuber owns the character they're playing! And, in fact, companies have.

>>30260136
>The person behind the avatar is responsible for 99% of profits created by that person
Then why is it so important that they take the avatar with them when they leave? They're still the same person avatar notwithstanding.

>>30260333
Yes, we know vshojoshill.

>>30260341
Because they want to continue as the character they've created instead of starting over with an awkward reset. Also because the alternative is what's happening now: the models just get dumped into a harddrive and never used again.

Why do you want the companies to have ownership of them?

holy shit there is a lot of dumb ppl on this thread, imagine you can bring home the ice cream machine on mac when you quit that job because you the operator of that said icecream machine work hard to serve the customer

>>30260324
Point out all my posts.

>>30260414
Have you ever worked at a job before, anon?

>>30260447
>do the work for me
I accept your concession.

>>30260437
Pretty fucked up that I have to wear a blue polo at Wal-Mart even though I worked really hard at Target before I quit. I want my fucking red polo!!

>>30260470
I have. Do you agree with everything you have to do for your job, and all practices of it? I don't. I don't have the power to change many issues I wish I could. I watch millions of dollars get wasted every year in my line of work.

>>30260539
Oh, anon just hates his job. That's what's going on here.

>>30260414
Wow it kind of sounds like the avatar and IP is pretty goddamn important then wouldn't you say? Maybe responsible for more than 1% of the profits you goddamn retard?
You're not going to win this arguing both sides bullshit where the VA is omni important and the avatar doesn't matter but also Cover should just give up the avatar because she NEEDS it to stream as Coco.

>>30260649
Actually it's pretty decent, aside from the ridiculously wasteful spending. I could be doing way worse things. Weird accusation.

>>30260333
And guess what, smoothbrain. Hers didn't have it written in it. So tough shit for her. She wants access back into the cash cow that she walked away from. She's the one being shameless.
No one is arguing that their can be stipulations written into a contract as to the possibility of ownership being signed off onto a chuuba. But she didn't and won't. Tough.

>>30260516
Hey buddy, the argument is that workers should be hired for their own purchased uniforms! That's why your previous employer should give you the uniform they rented out for you! They're greedy for keeping it! You'll have to start a new job without your previous employers uniform! Imagine having to start all over at a new employer and bringing none of the tools your employer rented out to you! That's corporate greed!!! It's not fair the employee doesn't have his previous employers uniform!!!!!!! It's black companies being greedy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>30260658
Not really? She's doing pretty well without them. She took a solid hit and the Hololive brand is excellent for establishing and drawing an audience, but not at keeping them. It's not magic. You can turn out a Sana, or you can turn out a Rushia. Yeah, I'm still going with 99% of the money a talent receives over their lifetime is because of who the talent is, not who drew them.

>>30260729
Kekson Apologist will never understand that anon.
All they see is that Json is a victim of an evil corpo

>>30260136
>The person behind the avatar is responsible for 99% of profits created by that person
If that were true nobody would join Hololive just for an extra 1%

>>30260726
>smoothbrain
>proceeds to misunderstand the entire argument
"I want the norm to be for the model to be the vtuber's property." Not "Coco should have been given her model."

>>30260729
>>30260855
What's most bizarre about this is that Kson clearly isn't stupid and doesn't even want to bother with trying to liberate Kiryu Coco from the evil clutches of the dreaded Cover Corporation because that wasn't part of the deal when she was hired on. These people are fucking retarded.

>>30260931
Hololive's a great promotional tool. Then you sink or swim on your own merits.

>>30260992
Now you're being contradictory
If Hololive promotes you then it's responsible for your profits

>>30259056
>successful talent
If she is THAT talented she shouldn't have joined Hololive and stayed indie in the first place, surely she would eventually reach the success Coco did.
If she is THAT talented her numbers should stay the same after the graudation, in fact they should increase since she now has the much desired CREATIVE FREEDOM.
For God's sake, 80% of her success is due to Hololive, she left and now she will get to keep her 20% while the rest dies with Cover.
>>30233686
I know what you are trying to do Kson, but no, e-whores will not get the Corp boost just to graduate immediately after so they can suck their boyfriend's cock on stream.