/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

Most people watching vtubers in the anglosphere internet are mentally ill.

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
not true

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
Twitter and reddit doesn't represent the West.

>>27748980
>yet somehow Hololive is more popular than Nijisanji?
HoloEN aren't idols tard
Mori does not fit the idolshit archetype and collabs with vshojo.
Gura was on the same twitch circle before, shark is no idol.

In fact all the popular HoloJPs in the west aren't idols... Korone, Coco, Haachama, etc

>>27749355
>In fact all the popular HoloJPs in the west aren't idols... Korone, Coco, Haachama, etc
Firstly, Coco and Haachama aren't more popular than majority of JPs.
Secondly, Korone is like a super-idol.

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
Here in the West, the loudest people are the minority. I say this because you are probably Asian

>>27749355
>aren't idols
>Korone
Are you trolling?

It's as easy as this:
>In JP Hololive is for otakus and Nijisanji for normalfags
>In the west Hololive is for normalfags and Nijisanji is for otakus
You can see this in how the main place for Hololive discussion is still reddit and the main place for Nijisanji discussion is this board

>>27749919
That's the end result, while I'm wondering how we got to this point in the first place

Believe it or not, most men know a whore in real life who never shuts up about politics or some other whorish thing. Don't need to watch some whore pretending to be an anime character with a horrid voice for that
What most men in the world don't have is a cute japanese anime character playing video games and also sings and dances

>>27748980
>>relatively popular in the West
That's purely because of Coco and Myth.

The thing is that NijiEN's "culture" niche was already filled by vshojo and to a lesser extent indies. NijiEN simply added nothing. The males on the other hand filled an actual market hole, albeit from China.

>>27749919
Cope, the 'normalfags' are just major otakus and the nijifans are just female otakus

>>27750130
Korone was probably more influential than Coco. That's just how they latched onto after being introduced by the dog because Coco could speak some English

>>27748980
Every thread like this only makes it more obvious vshojo shills are trying too hard

>>27750160
>fujos

>>27749987
It's very easy to get into HoloEN through clips and songs. NijiEN in the other hand is something only people already into chuubas would be interested in.

>>27750160
Holoredditor feeling called out

>>27749919
This is stupid. How it has actually worked out is that HoloEN is 30% western idolfag otaku and 70% normies/tourists who are being slowly converted into idolfag otaku. NijiEN is for literally no one except ~20k harried and miserable male Lazulight/whatever fans and an unstoppable legion of insane Chinese fujoshi

>>27749355
Most popular clips this month, haachama most popular clips are from Miko WWE.
She's less popular to ENs than even Towa.
Ofcourse she's less popular to ENs than EU queen Watame
>>27750261
cope

>>27748980
Get this right. Banning people on Twitter and other platforms does not make them stop existing. Those loud people on Twitter and reddit don't represent everyone on earth.

>>27750190
Coco worked her ass off, was the most popular chuuba in the West, and even helped create Myth. Without her VTubing in the West wouldn't have picked up so early, and would likely be dominated by Twitch and VShojo.

>>27749987
Hololive went massively viral in first in the west and capitalized on it on it well with how they reacted to it both in the JP branch initially by welcoming EN interest as a stop gap measure and with quickly rolling out a quality dedicated offering for the EN market.
Nijisanji fumbled any sparks of virality they had in the EN market originating from the JP branch with very little response from the JP branch and a half assed offering to the EN market until nearly a year later than Hololive already had their good quality offering on the market.
The end result of that is only people in the west that care enough about vtubers and japanese culture enough to dig deep into companies outside the one that gets shoved in their face by the youtube algorithm ever got to being interested in Nijisanji.

>>27748980
>NijiCN(EN) little less relevant in the west
lmao they are still irrelevant in the west most of thier fans are chinks and flips not westeners

>>27750227
For fuck's sake, I'm asking WHY that's the case when Hololive (at least on paper) should be less appealing to westerners to begin with, you fucking illiterate glue-eating toddler

>>27750287
HoloEN popularity is firmly rooted on Reddit and the YouTube algorithm.

>>27748980
VShojo should be the most popular agency in the West if what /vt/ says every day is reality.

The reason why so many Hololive fans act like shits is because they're Redditors on babby's first image board and they giggle to themselves that they can call others faggots and tell them to 'kys'

>>27750340
Yeah yeah vshojo shill, go shill somewhere else.

>>27750388
Youtube algorithm yes, but reddit has little to do with it. you find the Hololive subreddit when you're already a fan or at least familiar with Hololive.
Also, the Youtube algorithm doesn't pick winners randomly. Hololive gets boosted in the Youtube algorithm because people like, watch, and subscribe to Hololive shit when it's put in front of them. Positive feedback loop.

>>27750287
What's with the odd definition of normalfag, some dude that watches football regularly and goes clubbing isn't watching hololive.

>>27750452
Ok well yes but normality is all relative anyway

>>27748980
They got there first in the west, and Myth was probably at least 10x more popular out the gate than they ever hoped they'd become.
Also neither company panders to normalfags. Show an average normalfag a vtuber clip and watch them recoil in confusion/disgust. Your perception is seriously fucked.

>>27749919
Hololive JP is for the otaku's.
Nijisanji is for teenage girls who are into BL.
Nijisanji WAS for normal fags but they're becoming more and more Manjisanji every year.

>>27750487
So in this context what does it mean, an anime fan that isn't mentally ill? I don't get it.

>>27750362
Because of clips. That's the explanation. You can watch funny clips without being into idol culture.

Although you also had girls like Coco and Haachama that don't act like idols. And this also applies to Myth.

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
loud minority, etc

>>27748980
>Literally how? In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture, yet somehow Hololive is more popular than Nijisanji?
Performative activism isn't particularly representative of a society's actual cultural standards. No one likes all out whores, but no one is going to tell you that because that is whichever brand of politically correct term people will throw at you and be a general nuisance to society at large.

>>27749355
>Gura
>Korone
>Haachama
>not idols
I'll give you Mori cause she's a retard and Coco because she really isn't cut out for it, but the ones you mentioned are blatant idols even by the more conventional definitions of the terms.

>>27748980
>collab
>collab
>collab
>collab
>collab
Why is everyone on this board obsessed with collabs? Isn't just having your oshi alone enough?

>>27750537
Yeah something like that. Someone who watches anime, so they aren't immediately viscerally repelled by the concept of an anime shark streamer, but also aren't bawling for 3 hours during HoloFes and buying $100s of merch

>>27748980
Vtubers have an anime filter. Anime + otaku culture meshes well in the west. Anime + normie culture does not.

>>27749355
Wasn't noel a cam girl?

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
you mean twitter is, they dont watch streams though

>>27750602
I feel called out, I didn't cry that much.

>>27750413
Ame and Gura were edgy Western indies before they applied for Hololive. If Myth didn't existed, or if they were blacklisted, then they would have ended as founding members of VShojo.

>>27749919
This is true, but holo tourists will still insist they're "based" for being loyal to the brand with over 1 million reddit followers.
Hololive's audience in the west is largely people who view vtubers as a fad that will live and die with Hololive's popularity and give 0 fucks for anything outside that sphere. Nijisanji's audience in the west are people already familiar with vtubing and don't want newfags coming in to shit up their fanbase, so they don't bother advertising or shilling their livers all over the internet.
You won't see Nijifags spamming Pomu reaction images all over /v/ until the jannies implement a sitewide rule against vtuber spam. They keep to themselves and avoid talking about Nijisanji outside of their otaku circles, because we don't want normies ruining our secret club and spamming their unfunny forced memes in our oshi's chat.

>>27750674
sounds like the best case scenario instead of hololive and nijisanji pozzing themselves

>>27750345
>Nijisanji fumbled any sparks of virality they had in the EN market originating from the JP branch with very little response from the JP branch
Not only this, I watched Nijisanji in the early days and was surprised by how xenophobic the fans were. Any English used by the streamer or viewer, you see 日本語でOK (Use Japanese).

>>27750674
You're shitposting but I don't think Gura ever had any ties to vshojo
Ame legitimately might have ended up in vshojo in some unusual timeline although she seems to hate clout-chasers so she might not dig their whole scene

>>27750702
Megacope

>>27750449
People like the clips of chuubas doing weird shit but to actually get into it they have to start watching streams, and that's when Coco and Myth were of crucial importante.

>>27748980
>Literally how? In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture, yet somehow Hololive is more popular than Nijisanji?
Only normies shit on idol-culture but don't consume Vtuber content, they SAY they do but they don't, on the other hand weebs do consume VTuber content and like idol shit so Holo is most pupular.
Fuck Niji BTW.

>>27750452
Nijinigger elitism, pls understand.

>>27750702
Based

>>27750495
Depends on the clip. Fubuki singing scatman would be a hit anywhere.

>>27750668
The whole curious clip-watcher to crying-penlight-waver pipeline is a real phenomenon, you're just ahead of the curve

>>27750802
>we're less popular than you
is a weird form of elitism

>>27749919
>Nijisanji is for otakus
Niji EN is for sjws

>>27748980
These are women, with no rules they will just revert to muh pussy uhh cock ikr??! .
The talent itself is not as important as the leash she is bound by and Yagoo understands this simple truth.

>>27749919
It's difficult to discuss anything on censor central when you get banned for your first post for no reason.

>>27750702
>Nijisanji's audience in the west are people already familiar with vtubing and don't want newfags coming in to shit up their fanbase, so they don't bother advertising or shilling their livers all over the internet.
At least lie better, anon.

>>27750900
If we are talking about NijiEN then they have two basically completely separate audiences with minimal overlapping. The females have an audience that is made up of a majority of current and ex-HoloEN fans. The males have an audience that is made up of a majority of Japanese and Chinese females and a minority of western NijiJP fans plus some word of mouth converts that are completely new to vtubers with Luxiem.

>>27751042
Nah, he's right. Newfags discover vtubers mainly thanks to Hololive clips, not Nijisanji. The ones who know about Nijisanji are the ones who are already familiar with vtubers.

>>27751118
The way that guy greentexted him made the post seem more rational than it was, what he actually said was just delusional.

>Clips, especially Miko, Matsuri, and Fubuki's.
>Haato revealed that she is an ESL.
>Cute gamer doggo.
>It felt like a pseudo-anime. They also have fewer "characters" compared to niji, making it easier to get into.
>2020 boom + Coco

They still collab with men back in the day, until gen 3. If holo isn't an idol company, they would be still somewhat popular to this day.

>>27750853
Elitism works in two ways:
>when "you" are on top, look down on others and shit on them for not being as popular
>when "you" are not on top, deride those who are on top and shit on them for not having a "small, dedicated and close knit community"
Nijiniggers have expressed both of these time and time again, even before Hololive getting popular was a thing considered plausible.

>>27751118
>>27751199
No, I believe that guy was shitposting with sarcasm, I told him to lie better to improve the quality of shitposting.

>>27751199
It's not that delusional the problem is he is talking about the NijIEN fanbase as if its the same as the NijiJP western fanbase when in reality its not. On 4chan at least the NijiEN western fanbase is a lot of people who either watched HoloEN or still do watch HoloEN, they will happily shill you their oshi if you give them a chance. The NijiJP western fanbase is a bunch of insular people who have been there for years and are generally unwelcoming to anyone who is new and view promoting their oshi to newfags as spoonfeeding.

>>27750763
If Hololive deemed Gura rm as too controversial then I don't think she would have a lot of choices. Her style of comedy was also more in line with VShojo.

All I really get from these threads is that 2019/2020tourists are still butthurt about some autistic weebs trying to gatekeep their niche thing like they've always done since forever

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
Twitter does not represent the real world.

nijiyabjis have less talent and appeal. it's really not hard to see why their dumb fans keep seething about the bigger companies after they surpassed them.

>>27749032
IM NOT MENTALLY ILL

>>27750739
Which is absolutely for the best unless you want to end up with situations like Korone's chat being filled with spic spam for several weeks, russian niggers talking among themselves in Botan's chat regularly or the vietnamese VIRUS fags who infested Rushia's chat for like a month or more.

>>27749032
Unironically this, Western otaku are all maladaptive retards who shouldn't have made it this far into the current gene pools, and there aren't many functional people who watch chuubas to counterbalance them.

Normies are more impressed by the tech, if you showed Kizuna to anyone who doesn't know about her they would find it cute and the tracking impressive. The problem with VShoio and Nijisanji is that their tech is shit.

>>27751681
Nijifags maybe, western holofags are descended from the warriors of WWI and II

>>27751591
That's like blowing up your house because there were toxic spiders inside of it.

>>27751711
>all mentally ill
Makes sense.

>>27751494
Most people in the West would find idol culture either cringe or actually harmful. Just show then a 30 year old man following teenage idols around and see how they react. Japanese idols are very different from K-Pop, which is tailored to please Westerners, even though it has some similar issues.

>>27751042
Go check the Nijisanji subreddit right now. Even with their large EN fanbase nobody fucking uses it because nobody feels the need to shill Nijisanji. Everyone who ends up in the Nijisanji fanbase has already seen Hololive, they've already seen the indies and 2view corpos, and they chose Nijisanji over all of them without needing the Youtube algorithm to tell them what to think.

They've also experienced first-hand the obnoxiousness of Holofags spamming their forced memes all over the internet and don't want to be associated with that level of cringe. You retards made the actual seasoned otaku on /jp/ hate vtubers in general with how incessantly you spammed the board with surface-level garbage until a containment board was made.

You guys can have fun spamming your yubi yubis and your ogeys and your hi honeys in normalfag spaces like Reddit and Twitter, but I don't have that kind of loyalty to a brand to give them so much unpaid advertising out of my free time. Most Nijifags just watch vtubers as one aspect of their obsession with Japanese culture, we're too busy consuming anime and manga and video games and jdramas to spend time on Twitter or dump hundreds of hours into making clips.

>>27751411
The only NijiEN fanbase that was originally holofags was Lazulight/Obsydia honestly. With every future wave they've attracted their own niche. Ethyria had more in common with 2view groups like Wactor than Hololive. Luxiem is mostly NijiJP fans and Kpop sisters, almost none of them were familiar with Hololive.
It's definitely true though NijiJP and NijiEN seem like totally segregated fanbases. They may support eachother superficially but hardly interact outside collabs. It's not at all like Hololive's culture of shilling everyone.

>>27748980
>Literally how? In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture
Because the people who do that don't actually watch vtubers.

>>27751805
high levels of PTSD only started during the vietnam era of war

>>27751704
That doesn't really make that much sense, there was a period of time in late 2019 early 2020 where Hololive 3D was marginally ahead of Nijisanji but from mid 2020 onwards until relatively recently Nijisanji was ahead of Hololive in that department, doing stuff like tracking full bands down to accurate fingers for the instruments when Hololive was still barely able to interact with objects. Even now their tracking is better but Hololive seems to have somewhat better quality rendering and models to me.

>>27748980
>Nijisanji panders to normalfags
Okay, you don't actually watch Niji

>>27751681
You will never be Japanese, SEAmonkey

Stop fighting. VShojo is a bigger threat to any of your own tribalism

>>27751889
>nobody feels the need to shill Nijisanji
lol
lmao

>>27750452
Anon, I seen some dude watching hololive clips on my job and I'm in eastern Europe doing manual labor
Hololive may not be well known but their tertiary fanbase is pretty big

>>27751908
>high levels of PTSD only started during the vietnam era of war
Wrong and retarded but whatever you say boss.

>>27751889
Stop talking like >we have anything to do with each other you retard. Speak for yourself motherfucker

>>27751889
Ethyria still has a large component of HoloEN + Ex-HoloEN fags even if its lesser than Lazulight and Obsydia. Probably not a majority for Ethyria but still like a good 3rd of the fanbase. I didn't specify but of course you are right that Luxiem attracted a different audience, and I was mainly talking about the groups that holofags might interact with here.

>>27752014
cope, holofags have at least 4x the testosterone of a nijifag

>>27751204
>no mention of pekora
Pain peko

>>27751918
The problem with music is that people think that it's all pre rendered. Kizuna looked like a real time thing, which is what impresses people.

>>27751967
You know, a week ago I would've laughed at you, but now that Kson and Michael Cat are joining Vshojo, I'm not so sure anymore...

>>27752061
Not that guy, but I didn't know anything about Pekora until I started browsing this board. I knew about Korone, Fubuki, Haachama, Coco and Gura. Also the n-word clips.

>>27751889
I have ambivalent feelings towards the subreddit situation. It's great for the fanbase, because it's clear most nijifans only support the vtuber and don't give a shit about the company which saves the trouble of dealing with the bootlickers you see everywhere in this board, but it's harmful for the Nijis themselves since it kills any box-pushing attempts making them overrely on collabs to shill each other, not to mention other branches also become isolated unless they score a collab with EN. Man if only Anykara wasn't retarded and launched an EN branch alongside Holo maybe NijiJP would be more popular and would have more people to appreciate sunflower tummy with me.

>>27752068
The real time tracking in Nijisanji was obviously better too though. They had members doing stuff like playing ping pong live and interacting with deformable objects in realistic manner years back. The detail and fluidity of the models movements sometimes borders on an uncanny feeling where you can really feel the person behind the avatar and see the weight of the movements they are doing.

>>27752061
This was around late 2019.
Pekora wasn't really that big back then.

>>27752272
>sunflower tummy
I'm assuming you're talking about Honhima. If so - based

>>27751204
learn english, retard

>>27752272
The Nijisanji subreddit remains dead because the members have made no significant effort to make it alive. If a handful of the bigger members made a dedicated push to get activity there going by doing things like a meme review or some kind of stream where they interacted with fan content only from there regularly it would come to life. But usually they stick to collecting material for fan content streams from twitter.

>>27749032
Normies in Japan view the vtuber audience in general as mentally handicapped people kek

>>27751681
Are you unde the impression that eastern otaku are the pinnacle of mental health? the fuckers are ahead of the curve in terms of being schizos.

>>27752641
I'm pretty sure if anyone in Nijisanji tried to do a meme review, they would be called a copycat who's stealing Coco's idea

>>27752711
Someone should tell those normies to have sex

>>27750763
Wasnt she part of the Nyanners Friends group?

>>27752272
It's a complicated situation but in the long run I think it results in a more comfy fanbase. Box culture kind of ruins a fanbase as fans demand uniformity and the talents start to blend together. For example the recent drama with Finana that lit this board on fire didn't have any effect on NijiJP or even most of EN. Meanwhile if Hololive had a similar fuckup with Mori they'd start engaging in their usual struggle session shitting on eachother and burning their own threads until one side finally wins out and the whole of the fanbase decides they either support or hate 'thing' and you'll get bullied out of the community for not agreeing with the majority.

There's also the benefit of more organic growth and interactions. The recent Amamya and Nagao EN collabs have been a load of fun, and while they haven't gained a lot of viewers from it they're still interacting and developing close friendships within the company. I think Anykara understands uniformity is not Nijisanji's strength and having a hundred tangentially-similar fanbases that blend and interact from time to time is better than a single unified fanbase.

>>27752641
Pomu has talked about this before but Nijisanji's livers don't really like the idea of forcing their fans to do things or shilling content they're dispassionate about. The whole "here for the streamer, not the company" mentality is ingrained within Nijisanji itself. Doing that kind of marketing work for Nijisanji often interferes with their actual behind the scenes work, so the livers would rather continue interacting with their fans as they always have rather than multiplying their workload trying to promote Nijisanji.

>>27752974
someone should tell their whore females to drop their requirements for looks in males, they all want chads or walking wallets (that they will cheat at every occasion in love hotels)

>>27753198
I think in this situation it's the males with unrealistic standards and expectations, or at the least both.
Regardless, even married couples aren't having sex.

>>27750130
It's all thanks to Omega and his book of characters. KNEEL

>>27748980
Niji EN males got more popular with chink women. Not the west

>>27750702
All those deleted on r/notNijisanji weren't real huh...TIL

>>27750362
Why do you assume that just because there's no idol culture in the west idol culture isn't appealing to the west?

>>27754051
Because literally nobody knows what "idol culture" even means. Seriously, ask people what it means and you'll get different answers.

>>27754051
"idol culture" in the west is just celebrity culture. I see people's obsession with Depp vs Heard or Donald Trump or the Kardashians or Taylor Swift and it's really not very different from how Holofags behave. They worship the ground these people walk on and spend years of their lives speculating and shitposting gossipy bullshit about their favorite personalities.
Idols came about in Asia because the continent didn't have those traditional celebrity types after the entire continent was devastated by WWII. They wanted to emulate America's celebrity-worship as a form of entertainment and it morphed into seiso idol types instead of drug-fueled rock star orgies due to how ultra-conservative the region is.

>>27748980
Hololive, on the outside, is more family-friendly and appeals more to western normies. Hololive doesn't let pandering/GFE permeate into clips and big events for the most part. All the clippable stuff is "cute girl does funny thing". Only actual, regular viewers know that they pander. The average Hololive enjoyer knows Lamy for her alcoholism rather than her GFE.
The members of Nijisanji EN fumbled blowing up their brand in the west by trying to appeal to the already-existing fans of VTubing. People think that sex humor drives viewers away, and it does to an extent, but GFE/BFE drives away another sizeable amount of viewers. The average person in the west does not want GFE/BFE. They want something they can find humor in, even if it's just for a few seconds. Everyone in NijiEN strives to be romantically attractive to the viewer or shippable with another member. They use their desirability as a crutch rather than try to pioneer their own thing, like the members of Hololive JP did. This is fine for the members' paychecks, but it does nothing to further Nijisanji's reach in the west. Most NijiEN clips can be described as some sort of dating profile ad or over-the-top flirting with someone else. NijiEN clips just don't have the same novelty as Miko saying nigga, Gura saying a, or Korone speaking Engrish.

>>27754429
>seiso idol types
Yes, if you're in the 80's. Modern idols don't have many sexual limiters.

>>27754051
Idol culture in the West is called K-Pop stans.

>>27754546
I thought holofags claim their girls are pure and seiso and totally not whores?

>>27754537
>Everyone in NijiEN strives to be romantically attractive to the viewer or shippable with another member. They use their desirability as a crutch rather than try to pioneer their own thing, like the members of Hololive JP did.
Why do you even bother writing all this shit about a branch you've never bothered to watch? Just go with the usual "hahaha nijiniggers cope seethe xd" instead of typing up a storm of your own delusions.

>>27754587
I don't watch Holo.

>>27754587
You mean here? It's part joke and part reality.
Far stretch of difference between a whore and pure first of all.
It's about the content. Most girls don't do anything to give an impression of someone not to be trusted. Even Matsuri's hand yab wasn't during her hololive streams.
Some members are married, that isn't something we mistreat them for.
It's completely a mutual thing between the talents and the fans where we give them trust and benefit of the doubt and they give us streams with the vibe of intimacy, compassion and demure. All while being extremely entertaining.

>>27754693
Yeah I don't think I have really read something more off the mark in this thread yet.

>>27754546
>>27754698
You're not really wrong but modern idols still use sex appeal very differently from American celebrities. The quintessential idol is "always available" to her fans in every way possible. The parasocial fabricated intimacy is what they're selling, and that includes sex appeal like gravure photo shoots to make fans feel emotionally closer through masturbating to them.
Compared to like, Lady Gaga who flaunts her sexuality on stage and has public orgies with male dancers during her shows it's a very different kind of sex appeal. Japanese idols are whores but they're supposed to be whores for (You) and no one else. When fans find out their "idol" has a boyfriend they go ballistic even though they know none of them ever had a chance of dating her in the first place regardless, because they see it as her breaking the social contract of imaginary intimacy.

>>27755254
>When fans find out their "idol" has a boyfriend they go ballistic
source

>>27755254
>parasocial fabricated intimacy is what they're selling
This is true for every Vtuber, no? At least the ones that are actually selling (popular). It's true that Holo does it more frequently and with more intensity, but using that definition for idols would classify every Vtuber as idols because every Vtuber fanbase will have fans upset about boyfriends/girlfriends or marriages.

>>27751889
>Luxiem is mostly NijiJP fans
Never got that impression since they seem to know nothing about it. The claim has been that "nijien is totally like seeds haha, we are nijisanji", but they ignored seeds24 just fine. Seems like most of their "oldfags" are just larping.

>>27748980
You don't even watch holo or niji to begin with

>>27755843
That claim was one being made by Japanese fans about NijiEN that would commonly crop up on translated clips on NND and youtube and then repeated by NijiEN fans though. The Luxiem NijiJP fans are ones that watched probably Kuzuha, Kanae, VALZ, some Eden Gumi members and maybe Meschers.

>>27755784
Most vtubers are not selling intimacy no. Streamers sell friendship but that's very different from what idols are selling.
I think Hololive is the only brand that sells GFE as much as real life idols. Most of Nijisanji treat their fans as nothing more than viewers or at best friends. Even 2views largely do not provide the same level of intimacy as Hololive. Amiya from Tsunderia or Tenma from Phase Connect(really all of Phase Connect) don't do any sort of GFE content, they just stream games or chat about their interests or shitpost with their viewers.

Of course it is all parasocial in the end, but I wouldn't call it intimate or idol-like. Pomu's talked about having girlfriends in the past and having lots of male friends in real life, something no one in Hololive would ever do. Selen's entire friend group before vtubing was male FPS streamers, and she still interacts with those people frequently. Non from Prism, probably the closest Hololive-like 2view corpo, frequently spends streams talking about her porn tastes and her past relationships with men or her experience seeing dicks in real life etc.

>>27752974
R.I.P.

>>27755784
The difference is whether the vtuber herself wants to deliberately cultivate the kind of audience that shits itself at the mere thought of their oshi having a bf.

>>27756011
>That claim was one being made by Japanese fans
probably an equally popular claim for antis looking for some more material to shit on jp

Why watch vtubers who act like fleshtubers when you could just watch the real deal?

>>27748980
Hololive built itself up as an Idol Agency without the terrible baggage as IRL ones and despite what some people say is actually not that restrictive especially compared to IRL idols and Corpos such as UPD8/Activ8.

You have to keep in mind that most of the restrictions modern Hololive have today is due to them getting hit hard by YouTube, copyright from Capcom, and the Chinese back in 2020 (the mass demonization for lewd content by YouTube, Capcom nuking Mio and starting the Holocaust, everything regarding China).

>>27754587
They just claim the girls don't freely talk about their sexual experiences on stream and/or active partners. Nobody realistically expects them to be all virgins, and the ones who do are either falseflaggers or a very small minority of mentally ill people. That's about it.

>>27753105
No she was more friends I think certain members of the OTV group. It's why Sykunno is a giant fan of her, they used to play together.

>>27756205
Very interesting. I don't really differentiate between intimacy and friendship, because it's all under the parasocial umbrella, like you've mentioned. But I do understand why you see them as different after reading the examples you have given. Good talk.

>>27748980
>Hololive panders to idolfags
Nah, their content is family-friendly for majority of people. Idol is just branding to make them stand out from other corpos.
>Nijisanji panders to normalfags
Nah, while it's true that their brand appeal to general public in Japan but many livers actually pander to otaku, gachikois, yurifags or fujos. They are even niche than Hololive.

>>27756380
Isn't Korone straight up like a 38 year old former housewife?

>>27756578
>Nah, while it's true that their brand appeal to general public in Japan but many livers actually pander to otaku, gachikois, yurifags or fujos. They are even niche than Hololive.
Nijisanji just has a kinda wide reach but no box culture so fans might only watch a single liver. Whether you're a normalfag who watches Kuzuha or a lolicon who watches Amamiya or a hardcore otaku that watches Yashiro, Nijisanji has a wide variety of fans in Japan. Calling them normies wouldn't be correct but I'd say they have a better reach than Hololive, which exclusively appeals to the moeblob kimobuta demographic in Japan. Most of their livers are way more niche than Hololive though, like Emma often streams to only 500 viewers who are just there to listen to her chat and drink alcohol together.

>>27756648
No.
She was actually underage when she started on NND and lied about her age to be seen as mature

>>27748980
>was literally irrelevant in the West before Niji EN males,
Anon.. they are still literall who. The males are only relevant in bugland

>>27756895
That's why I added "now they are slightly less irrelevant", aka still mostly irrelevant

>>27756499
What I heard is that she used to be fans of OTV but they ignored her.

>>27756895
There were dozens of Nijisanji EN cosplayers at AX. Not as much as Hololive but they're definitely not irrelevant anymore. Someone posted a picture of like 20 Luxiem cosplayers in a group photo at one point.
Nijisanji EN also had like 20 or 30 different booths selling merch. Not just Luxiem either, Selen and Pomu had their friends visit dozens of tables at AX buying all the merch of themselves. Often those same people were selling Hololive merch as well but that's irrelevant. Most of it sold out by the last day too so it's not like there wasn't demand.

>>27749919
The main place for niji discussion is twitter and discord

>>27754429
You are fucking retarded.

1. The concept of idols came from french cinema. The word "idol" got popular thanks to a french movie Cherchez l'idole.
2. Idol culture became popular due to a depressing postwar atmosphere.
3. Showa Era Idols (the original ones) are very different from what they are today, and are not derived from american culture.

>>27757615
Nah, the Niji Twitters are only used for posting memes and Discord is only used for circlejerking the insular fanbases. You can't even criticize anyone without getting banned.
The only place real discussion happens is /NijiEN/ and that's why a lot of the livers read the thread to find feedback about themselves. Hell any time a new wave is being speculated the discords and reddit and twitter are all just linking back to speculation posts in /NijiEN/ instead of coming up with their own.

>>27755294
AKB48, Minami Minegishi. The shaved one.

>>27748980
Its just the Nintendo vs Sony debate. Shit that panders to children and manchildren but takes no risks and barely innovates attracts a bigger common denominator of retarded fans.

>>27750763
>literally sings a song for Belle Delphine used in her lewd MV
She'd fit VShojo standards like a glove.

>>27756793
>Kuzuha's fujos are normalfags.

>>27758255
That's not the fans

Rank S:
>Pomu Rainpuff
>Chikafuji Lisa
Rank A:
>Rosemi Lovelock
>Amiya Aranha
Rank B:
>Millie Parfait
>Miori Celesta
>Fujikura Uruka
>Ceres Fauna
Rank C:
>Elira Pendora
>Enna Alouette
>Oumiya Emma
>Pipkin Pippa
>Gawr Gura
>Sara Nagare
Rank D:
>Finana Ryuguu
>Petra Gurin
>Kaneko Lumi
Rank F:
>everyone else

>>27757143
Selen and Pomu are basically at Myth level now.

>>27756205
You're really overstating how much Hololive do GFE. HoloEN in particular don't lean into that at all.

>>27759147
who would have guessed little minty came so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ANGn56Q69Q

>>27759224
Yeah they do, it's just mostly a worse version.
Like with Ina you get the korean GFE, with the raging and hating you enjoying yourself

>>27758920
What is this ranking based on? How many times you have jerked off to them?

>>27758920
Swap Lisa/Amiya
Add Tenma Maemi to A and Araka Luto to B
Raise Petra to C and Elira to B
Now you have a good tier list.

>>27748980
Because normalfags do not watch streams and no one cares about twittertards.

>>27749355
Internet idols can't be considered the same as real life idols because real life idols are 15-25 years old, graduating to something else like acting or voicing anime characters or being a full time singer/talent when they become too old to run with the young girls in AKB or whatever. Internet idols can quite literally include women who are years and years too old, even ex-idols and whores and housewives.

>>27759784
Not true, there is an idol group in Japan with the average age of 84

>>27760123
link
https://youtu.be/jlZSKLyTIIo

I hope nijisanji fans soon accepts the fact that they can't be as popular as Hololive and just enjoy their own hobbies.

>>27748980
>In the West everyone and their mother is shitting on the idol culture, yet somehow Hololive is more popular than Nijisanji?
Either people who shit on idol culture don't watch vtuber at all or they shit on idol culture while continuing to watch Hololive instead of Niji.