/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>24631365
That straight up looks like Valkyr from Warframe

>>24631365
Don't watch the streams, jerk off and cum buckets to the model...and done

Didn't Vei say her new model cost upwards of 50K? This one has to exceed that.

why the change from being a dragon tho?

>>24631696
Don't know, but he's hardly the first streamer who wanted to rebrand to satisfy a wild hair up their ass.

>>24631696
The dragon model was also hot as fuck. Shame.

>>24631365
>he fell for the voice reveal meme

>>24632064
Which one? There were, like, five of them. And a gecko.

>>24631696
It makes more sense to be a robot if you're using a TTS voice.

>>24631611
>Didn't Vei say her new model cost upwards of 50K?
50k of what fucking currency?

>>24632484
She's British so pounds, I guess.

>>24632477
The voice actually changes when the helmet is on or off. I appreciated that little attention to detail.

she's too unfunny to be a guy

>>24631365
what's this, a metaphor for transitioning?

>>24632871
Most agree that the appeal of Zen isn't Zen herself, but her chat. Her chat is an experience in and of itself.

>>24632941
What's (her) chat like?

>>24632484
Pounds or USD, and its just to be coombait and didn't enhance her content at all. Shylily still took majority of her viewers.
>>24632667
Of course not, it's a guy who pretended to be a girl for a few years now. TTS stays.

>>24632197
The gecko was the hottest

>>24631365
But will it stop him from crying about how no one wants to collab/talk with him anymore

Reminds me of a 2view I watch sometimes

>>24632941
So Forsen syndrome?

>>24633116
Probably not.

>>24631365
I'd fuck it.

>>24631611
Her model has a lot of useless shit tho, I still think it's dumb to pay a fuckton of money just to have a live2d be able to kinda do what any 3d model can, paying for a good 3d one would be a much better use for the money

TTS aside, is Zen really a bad streamer even if she's a guy irl?

>>24632514
>>24633012
Jesus christ what a rip off. There's got to be an upper limit beyond which money adds nothing and 50k pounds or dollars both sound far past that point

The model is very cute, would fuck. Too bad it's just a Saruei rip-off

>>24633347
Bad is subjective. Zen is usually an entertaining streamer, which is all I really care about. But again, Zen is more like a vehicle through which to experience his chat.

>>24633412
Sounds like you enjoy being part of a community more than whatever the community was supposed to be about

>>24631365
well at least the TTS voice works lorewise now, Still someone I will never watch

>I want something that's part Evangelion and part Warframe.
>"Say no more!" says artist.

>>24633357
Yep, Kson's model is much better (including 2.0) and I guarantee it cost nowhere near $50k/50,000 pounds. The literal cream of the crop in the Rigging industry charges no more than $6k.

>>24633517
Pretty much, yeah. Though Zen's model is hot and is worth looking at.

>>24631365
No way he's a guy. (He) got menhera moment playing Elder Ring because of backseaters. Also, she sucks at gaming.

>>24633615
Keep in mind that price includes all the emote art, promo art, transition screens, custom music, and so on.

>>24633162
name?

>>24633664
Probably got mindbroken into an actual tranny after pretending to be a girl for so long, it happens more often than you would think

>>24631611
No, the total cost of the redebut was $50k. That included $20k for the Merryweather lore video and all the music with it, her two new models (2D and 3D) and all the rigging associated with it, new BGM music, new overlays for stream, new emotes, new everything. It wasn't $50k just for the model, but the models probably cost both together $15-20k with design and rigging.

>>24633729
ban1ban1

>>24633854
Twenty thousand bucks for fifteen minutes of shoddy, still-frame animation?

Kind reminder that you have 0 (zero) proof that Zentreya is, in fact, a man. Therefore, such claims are all seething-induced rrats until proven otherwise.

>>24631365
>to a dude using a TTS voice
sound like a girl using a delimiter that make her voice artificial
>>24633664
i agree zentreya is a girl

>>24633947

Do you have a source on that?

Source?

A source. I need a source.

Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.

No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.

You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.

Do you have a degree in that field?

A college degree? In that field?

Then your arguments are invalid.

No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.

Correlation does not equal causation.

CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.

You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.

Nope, still haven't.

I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron.

>>24633686
But did it include the cost of Zens actual transitioning I think not.

>>24633928
Writing, designing, artwork, animation, direction, voice actor payments, background music produed by Lord Aethelstan. Might be an overcharge, but this is still a fledgling market this vtuber lore video business thing. Anime episodes cost about 100k to 300k depending on the quality and company doing it, and that includes paying a lot more people a lot more money and having Japan's infamous slave market for animators.

I think $20k is about right for a 5-10 minute video yeah. They've been highly entertaining so far, with Bubi's probably the best but Zen's was right up there, then Nyan's, then Vei's.

>>24633664
And yet faggots are really and act exactly like this really gets the old noggin joggin

>>24633854
>holo projects: building a portfolio of incredible vods
>vshoujo projects: re-debuts and lore videos
When will this fundamental misunderstanding around vtubing stop in the western scene?
People want vods, not these short lived moments.

>>24633664

The best evidence of Zen being a female is how bad at video games she is. She gets fucking dunked on in every game that is slightly competitive.

>>24634078
All the VAs are either in VShojo or friends of VShojo. I can't imagine they'd charge too much for a few lines of dialogue.

>>24633357
As a Live2D rigger I can't even imagine what I could add to a model to justify charging 3k let alone 50k.

>>24633947
You have no way to verify that Zen isn't Haruka's ex boyfriend that is transitioning.

>>24634234
maybe its just money laundering?

>>24634298
Hypothetical time: Zen asks you to add an animation where her chest opens up - peeling away clothes and skin - to reveal a compartment where a fully animated gecko Zen is piloting it like a Gundam. How long would it take and what would you charge?

>>24634298
Theres a good chance they are lying to bait donos

>>24631365
All those who think Zen is a guy seriously need to do reps. No, I won't spoonfeed you faggots.

>>24634665
Oh fuck off. This is such a shit argument. "Watch thousands of hours of content for vague confirmation" is nothing.

>>24634337
Haruka's legitimately autistic, there's no way she has ever had a boyfriend.

>>24634665
Her tail on the old model was tracking her cock.
The secret came out and that's the real reason why the model was changed.

>>24634742
Has she ever posted an IRL pic? If she's hot, being dumb is irrelevant.

>>24634721
Don't be sad, anon, that gives you less time to do your reps.

>>24634853
I'm not doing reps for Zentreya. He's a guy until he decides to drop the shitty TTS because "lol im scurred irl". Yeah, scarred of losing your simps, Harold.

I like that it’s actually robotic, since she/he/it? Has a robotic voice. Makes sense now

>>24631365
>Shame it's attached to a dude using a TTS voice to trick a bunch of lonely, stupid simps.
and that's what this model is a massive waste of fucking time. A better chubba could have that look. What a fucking waste.

>>24631365
As opposed to women using their real voices to trick a bunch of lonely, stupid simps?

>>24635189
Suisei could easily afford one of these new-fangled giga models, but I'm sure hololive has it in their contract that says the talent cannot personally pay for and alter their model in any non-company approved way.

>>24635291
To be honest anon, I would rather have Suisei wear that suit than Zentraya right now and I am not too fond of Suisei either. But at least she'll wear it better than this TTS speaking disappointment.

>>24633947
Kind reminder that you have 0 (zero) proof that Zentreya is, in fact, a girl. Therefore, such claims are all seething-induced rrats until proven otherwise.

>>24631365
IS ZENTREYA A GIRL OR NOT GODDAMN IT

>>24635677
Unlikely but no one actually knows.

>>24635677
nigga does it matter look at them tiddies god dayum.

>>24633162
daft punk chuuba lmao

What did she say?

>>24635764
That depends on your preferences anon.

I’m going to miss the real thick ass dragon. She had such ridiculous ass and tits, didn’t have stick limbs, and combined it with an at least passable face. So many vtubers lack that combo or actually lost it over time (looking at you Silver). Oh well, I have a robot and faceless fetish so this works too.

>>24635982
Fuck Mori, someone explain why Zen has a Schick razor on her desk.

>>24631365
But it makes perfect sense for the robot model to be attached to someone using TTS.

>>24636369
The proportions are almost the same between her new model and the old one. It's just that the red bodysuit covers more skin, which I agree is a shame.

>>24636369
I've seen better ass and tits on a chubba but eh, Zen should have stuck with the theme anyway. Just changing from dragon to plug suit girl is just making people think you are just an interchangeable character than a chubba.

>>24634078
That’s $100k to $300k per 24 minute anime episode generally. Let’s say $150k average (stuff like the action-heavy Demon Slayer episodes are probably way up there). That’s about $6k per minute, which isn’t terribly unreasonable considering the work that has to go into it.

Compare that to $20k for a 15 minute lore video, which is less than $1.5k per minute. 25% the cost of the rate associated with anime. I’d say that’s completely reasonable especially when you consider the time that is likely spent going back and forth with the vtuber about what they want, dragging out the process. You’d likely get charged double that going to a professional studio for a project. Animation is not quick or easy work.

His new model is done by Yunii and iron Vortex, so probably spent around $10k at best since we're strictly speaking model.

>>24636582
She should have gone robot dragon, now there a real idea.

>>24637534
Hime is already a robot dragon.

And an alien.

>>24637534
Indeed that would have been better desu.

>>24637681
Hime is a mess of jumbled themes. If it wasn't for the boobs and the spastic personality. I would have asked her to remain as her roommate and concentrate on that.

>>24637834
I just realized that the VShojo girls are trending more toward tech themes now than the somewhat mythological theme they started with. Unless Snuffy counts, and I think she does because even though she isn't in VShojo, she's tied into their lore.

>Haruka just called Zen "bro" and "man" and "dude" on stream

Damn

>>24638266
Haruka is too, which is why her and Snuffy are the top contenders for joining.

>>24638266
Makes me wonder why they are leaning towards a tech theme. Does this mean that the other girls are going to do that too? It doesn't seem like they are trying to cash in on fads but no one knows what lead them to this either.

>>24638266
They should bring in Juniper. She's a bug/robot.

kind reminder for everyone that saying 50k is too much for it, you are probably a third worlder that doesn't even know how the "first world" work market works, you know maybe some people want to pay artists good wages, that for a freelancer means around 40$/h (just half of that is taxes) or more for high requested pros. And you would think that this wage is low if you see the rates of some accountants or lawyers that do jack shit. If you consider that a model takes weeks to months to do, the price is not unreasonable at all, if that money is "well spent" because you will use it for 5 min is another story, but the hours of work put in there needs still to be paid fairly

>>24639770
>you are probably a third worlder
Shut your brainwashed american ass up. Not everyone was raised to be drained of every penny to their name unnecessarily. I'm being nice and not considering America a 3rd world country.

>>24639770
im not reading that

>>24640344
low iq

>>24635982
I see Fulgar was Zentraya all along.

>>24640104
faggot, I'm not even american I'm from europe, and is not unnecessarly, flash news: you need a good wage to live and a good wage is not 5$ bucks, even less if you are a professional that have spent a lot of years drawing or honing your talent to even consider selling a simple portrait, let alone be wanted by famous people to work for them, if someone is willing to pay them an high wage it means that they can afford it, and really if you want to be a professional illustrator taxes would drain you if you don't have a decent quote, but I guess you never had to deal with taxes or a business. Moreover think about how many pro illustrators you know irl, I guess 0, this should tell you how many professionals there are out there compared to other professionals

>>24639770
>Paying 50k for some slightly known NEET to sit on there fat ass drawing/programming/editing for three days
>Not paying some liberal arts student 2k to do it in half the time
Free market retard that applies to art as well

>>24641521

>>24641521
My issue with your statement is trying to justify $50,000, the LITERAL cost of a house in many countries that didn't get inflation raped, on a model. That is a very American mindset because of how badly they've been brainwashed by capitalism. The same amount of work could be (and has been) done for far, far less, "Free market" indicates smart people would go for the same quality and pay $3-6k compared to spending....$50,000? This is why you'd sooner go to Amazon than a mom & pop shop. It may suck in the long run, but I would sooner spend $300 on a desk than $1700 even though the $1700 option is mostly due to the store needing to recoup costs.
>but I guess you never had to deal with taxes or a business
I do my taxes just fine and work with numerous businesses between Japan, Germany and New Zealand, nothing in my experience will ever justify saying $50,000 spent on a model makes sense for the work that can be done for significantly less. So the only "tax" you're thinking of is: "Hey this person is popular/famous, they have money ...I'M GOING TO FUCKING RIP THEM OFF."

>>24631544
I KNEW I saw that design somewhere!

>>24641746
You really think someone who has any sympathy towards or understanding of the art world would hire someone who undercharges? Artists that understand their actual value are expensive. The student doesn't yet understand how valuable their skills are.

>>24642434
No one undercharges or else we'd have nothing in this world. People with a brain would not throw away more money than necessary. 2 very talented artists make the same quality product.
Your Logic is:
>Go with the $50,000 option
Most people logic would be:
>Go with the more affordable logic.
Both are talented artists that deserves to make their money. It's not "undercharging" to not make nearly a year+ salary on one project.

>>24634665
>Zen's not a man guys!
>No, I won't provide evidence, just trust me!
Cunt

>>24641746
the 50k is all the debut not only 1 model, is every asset used. For example she spent 15k on the rigging, and the rigger asked 75$ an hour, is an high hourly wage? Arguably yes, but there are like only a dozen riggers that are really good, so or you go to a pro that has on his shoulders a lot of experience, thus the "name" or you try your luck with a rigger that started yesterday and hope that the work come out decent. I bet that you would pay 1k more to have a guaranteed good service instead of a random one, even more if you are big. The artist got paid 5k, and for the time he put on it and the shitton of versions he made is even cheap

>>24631365
>went from big titty dragon to robot mech
do you want to lose money???

mental how all you fucking need is a big titty model and a female TTS voice and that's it, people will simp and coom even though you're actually a hairy dude
you don't even have to talk. Zen doesn't need to be attractive IRL, doesn't need an appealing voice, fuck I don't even think he needs to be interesting. I wish I could be on easy mode like he is.

>>24643343
*big titty robot mech

>>24642851
please browse a bit artists around to see how is the landscape and how it works and you will change your idea

>>24631365
Yeah the design is cool and all, the only thing I noticed was that his mouth movements are somehow even less in sync than before. You blew 50k on aesthetics yet somehow made your syncing even worse?

>>24636421
For the EDGE literally also to shave his legs

>>24632477
>>24633595
>It justifies the Text to Speech!
>Resembles an incredibly talkative character who's peeved with every sentence

>>24631611
I'm surprised since zentrana only gets about 1-3k viewers average
still think its funny how most of the shojos are starting to abandon their second models
>make models based off that vshojo promo art
>girls slowly start to realize how scuffed they look
>mouse gets a new one, followed by vei, now zen
silver probably won't be far behind though mel could really use one since she looks like a frog

>>24631365
50k for literal shit, but what did I expect from a retarded tranny

>>24644456
Mel needs one just to end the DigitrevX arc.

Her thighs jiggle a little in the new model. It’s worth it, sorry dragon Zen.

>>24631365
Bro, does it really matter to you if a guy is behind it? Like, does it actually hurt you that much? If the content is enjoyable who the fuck cares?

>>24642851
You have 0 idea how any of this works. You're basically not familiar enough to be even at the initial premises of the topic. You're essentially making the game theoretical assumption that we're just playing one game of choosing a seller. In reality, you're never going to realistically just play one game.

People like you are literally the reason that the happy few artists can charge this much to begin with.

>>24633854
>lore video
So they aren't a random group of whores joined by their love of dicks?

>>24633947
Zentreya was a vrchat mute in like 2017-2018 before vshojo was a thing, he was in some of Naggz21/Joey Bagles' videos as well as others'. I definitely remember seeing Zen speaking with a male voice a few times.

>>24649638
>that the happy few artists
>Meanwhile the artist that charges significantly less has more business than the one charging 3 years worth of rent for 1 commission.
You sure artists aren't happy? Pretty much every artist/modeler/rigger is very happy and they don't charge anywhere near $50k per project. You shop around, you find what works for you and you get a run down of their terms/payment.

>>24631365
it isnt the fact that 'its a dude'
its that its 'this menhera in this trash company'
babis are cool but here comes the western ones...

>>24650929
>artists
>happy
kek holy shit, you have never talking with artists have you? 90% of the commissioners are cancer kek.
Art is a luxury product, to make an example is like wanting to buy a gucci bag, if you have the money you go in the store and buy the original gucci that assures a certain quality and branding, if you don't have the money you go buy a fake gucci from a negro in the street, looks decent but is nowhere to the original. Same for artists, only that the market is even more limited, since if you like a certain style or artist, you can get it only from them. So if you have the money you commission a good artist (if your idea is of their liking), if not you search someone that is willing to haggle and in 90% of the times will deliver some half assed stuff because this is what you want to pays buy. And I assure you that every artist would prefer 4 900$ commissions in a month of stuff that they are interested in, instad of 50 drawings for 70$ in a month

>>24650929
"The happy few" is such a basic expression that I'm shocked you don't understand it. The entire conversation right now is about why the prices are so lopsided when there are cheaper alternatives, or in other words, why the happy few exists in the first place. This conversation wouldn't be taking place if there was no "happy few". If they didn't exist, there would be no contention in this subject.

I won't go into detail about why underpaying is not a good strategy in general, but art is one of those cases like cleaning services where you are better of not paying at all than hiring someone who is charging clearly too little. Because either they understand that their work has 0 value, or their are undervaluing it to the point of it being unsustainable as a business, or in other words lack experience. You pay professionally for professional quality. And quality always includes way more than just quality of the artwork itself. You're going to pay yourself sick if you try to get the same quality by randomly hiring hobbyist that do the same job slower and with worse logistics.

In addition, fair compensation for work makes every commission into a networking opportunity, which itself has more value than people understand. Then we get to the point that that's only one of the games being played here. Zen has a personal game, which affects her public image. This directly affects the networking opportunities she gets. All of this make contracts with Zen seem more appealing. In addition, VShoujo is playing this exact same game.

It's pure copium when people think that paying the least amount of money is the correct move. Nobody wins with that strategy. Not the artist, not the buyer. The opportunity cost is tremendous even if you happen to get quality art for dirt cheap. Even paying clearly too much is a way better strategy. Having sympathy isn't just a case of being nice for the sake of being nice. You are really naive if you think that it is.

>>24634298
TheArtGun (Vei's rigger) said on twitter the rigging was 200 hours of work at $75/hr for a model with two outfits. + $5000 for art itself

>>24633357
It really doesn't matter since her bf likely paid for it.

>>24633378
That looks like a man.

>>24636421
Those are chopsticks for the food.
I actually have a similar porcelain set.

>>24635677
why does it matter, are you not entertained?

>>24631365
She’s a man
Wasted.

>>24659236
>200 hours
Grift or embezzlement, pick one.

>>24635982
yo trick pass me dat lean

>>24638266
Zen's the only redesign that's tech themed. Nyan, Mouse, Vei, and Silver are all nature / divine themed. Well also Mel but Mel's always been tech themed so that's not a change it's staying the same.

>>24631365
>Stupid overly design video game armor looking crap
Awesome if you have no taste.

>>24631365
so she went from a dragon to a fusion of the pike syndicate and tali zorah? pass.

>>24659236
>the rigging was 200 hours of work
Was he including his reddit browsing sessions in that time?

>>24634298
That's because the model wasn't 50k. Vei's model in total was something like 15k combining both the art and the rigging. The 50k figure that gets thrown around is on all the other shit involved in Vei's debut like the lore video, custom overlays, custom music, and 100+ new emotes.

>>24631365
>Shame it's attached to a dude using a TTS voice
You are retarded, that's a good thing if true, it's not like you'll meet the person behind the avatar anyway.

>>24638266
What? All the recent redebuts have been mythological/fantasy vibes. Vei, Nyan, Silver, Snuffy all became goddess/spirits of somekind. If anything, Zen going cyberpunk robot dystopia in her lore was a change of pace, besides Mel.

>>24631365
I'm a sucker for Echanis' robo dolls.

>>24631365
Please Zen, save western chuubas. You're our only hope.

>>24631365
eh, not a fan of vibrant colored bodysuits/skin + the armor looks like a rip from PSO2. Massive upgrade from the dragon with terrible proportions though.
I wonder if he rebranded to try and drown out the crybaby hs drama shit he's done in the past.

>>24665798
My brain might be broken, but would respect Zen's hustle if it was a dude.

>>24631544
Loved that thicc bitch in game.

Spin 2 Win

>>24633162
please tell me that his donation alert is robot rock

>>24631696
This isn't even the first time Zen's majorly changed designs.

>>24633412
so you just open the stream to use the chat as a discord server

>>24673725
I'm sure many people do that, but it's fun to drop a protracted TTS redeem on occasion to rile her up.

>>24633378
At least Zen isn't French, couldn't justify watching Saruei to my ancestors.

>>24631365
>the best EN chuuba is a babiniku using TTS on Twitch using chat for content
what the fuck is going on with this industry

>>24675741
german or bong?
because if you go back far enough, everyone is french

>>24631365
To think a troon would get /vt/ panties in a bunch

>>24676063
Literally retarded normies and equally retarded simps, both of which have auditory impairments that make sure their little monkey brains don't understand the difference between a robot voice and a female one. I mean, just look at Artemis

>>24676801
same reason retards can't see female or male mannerisms behind 2d/3d avatars, since they never got laid.