/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

かわえぇ(^o^)

I prefer saying まんこ食べたいすぎる

可愛すぎる

No one says that at the bottom and you'd look like a tryhard faggot

>kept getting fucked by 下 and 上 direction words
bros i'm ngmi

>>23629841
Im surprised I read it right

>>23630007
下手くそw

kochi ko e boke
ore wa katai sugi
ore wa faggot da ze

>>23629954
They do. That's how I learned it from her chat.

I only watch VODS.

>>23630007
Bro them literally arrows pointing in the direction. Are you one of those image retards? You those people who literally can't imagine images. It has a name.
If that's not the case wait until you realize front spacewise means back timewise, and back spacewise means front timewise. You're definitely ngmi.

fun fact that using kanji may out you as JSL
For example, real Japanese use きれい rather than 綺麗
kawaii is usually written as hiragana because there are less strokes (and cuter)

>>23629954
Kanji kawaii is like supper common. Like maybe it's 60% t of times written kana. Not only in chat, in manga and literature as well.

>>23630367
>can't imagine images
does this have any research to back up the claim or is it just the usual internet memery?

>>23629954
>not larping as a tryhard jap

>>23630432
Saying that sting count influences whether words are written in kana or Kanji is beyond stupid, 95% of words have more strokes when written as Kanji. Also those examples are... I mean sure it's more common to write those in kana, but there are way more extreme cases of words that look extremely chuni and retarded when spelled in kanji.

can someone explain how umai=jozou?

>>23630494
I was internet memeing but it's a real thing let me dig a link for you
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia
There u go, enjoy discovering you have a thing broken about you (i mean it, it's good knowing one's own limitations and ways in which we can cope with them)

just say かわゆ~

>>23630432
>>23630435
damn which white person do i trust?

>>23629593
だろうよな~

>>23630764
None, we are retarded anons on 4chanel
Learn Japanese, read a lot, form your own opinion. Fucking sheep.

>>23630566
No I'm not saying there is rule depending on that
It's just matter of habit they developed over time
For example, I'm told not to write 頂きます but just plain いただきます. Then I should write 頂戴します if I use 頂戴(ちょうだい)

>>23630640
?
literally words are arbitrary. If it has an I okurigana you read it umai. Yeah there's a Kanji for umai but means umai and not jozu. You should probably write in kana tho and if youre reading it apply common sense.

>>23630367
> tfw you also know Chinese, which does this too, and so don’t realize this is a thing that trips weebs up

>>23630432
that sounds really poorly researched from glancing over it
the part about horror stories is interesting, but i assume they didn't isolate the cause since there's so many potential factors that could have a part in it
0.8-3.9% sounds like it's not that big of a problem though
thanks for the link

>>23630948
I mean it is weird and I can imagine monolingual burgers having a hard time around it, but since I have a nice bilingual brain I just understand and process Japanese as Japanese, even if I know very little. So I didn't have any trouble with this.

>>23631078
meant for >>23630728

>>23630764
The correct answer is that they’re both right. Some phrases are always written in kanji, some have a bit of a split, others are almost always written with hiragana and not kanji.

I think you get better at guessing which ones are which and seeing a pattern the farther you go. IIRC it’s related to how many other similar-sounding phrases to it exist (like, kawaii and kowai are similar enough that sometimes people do write it out) first and then how hard the kanji is second, if there’s any pattern at all.

>>23630566
They use both don't sweat it.

>>23631139 (me)
I mean, write out the kanji. The reason there’s kanji in Chinese and Japanese is that they don’t have that many syllables, so there’s lots of homophones.

>>23631078
Yes, as as with anything related to the mind we actually know very little as science is pretty much incapable of inquiring objectively around there. And it seems to be a pretty under researched topic, in top of that. It is nevertheless a thing that a lot of people seem pretty sure they have when they compare their perception of reality with that of others, so I think it has some amount of credibility to it.

>>23631247
That's not "the reason", the reason is the historical development of their society and that they didn't cave to pressure to abolish Kanji like the Koreans, thank fucking good.

>>23631283
it's easy to imagine someone with some type of brain damage could suffer from it, but seeing as people who lost one half of their brain can function normally afterwards, maybe not.
our brains are a confusing mess

>>23629593
I will never learn japanese just to watch some dumb women playing video games.

>>23629593
My oshi is American

>>23629593
yes! after two years of daily reps, I can finally read the word "kawaii" as you've written it here.

>>23631498
you should learn it to read untranslated eroge
understanding dumb women is just a cherry on top

>>23631448
It is a very fascinating phenomena. A teacher of mine had it and she said she could not close her eyes and picture an apple like the rest of us

>>23631604
I don't care about porn anymore

>>23631498
Dumb women playing videogame isn't the goal, it's the tool.

>>23631722
then do something else
why are you even here if you neither care about porn nor dumb women playing vidya?

>>23629593
I learned Japanese the way I learned typing, the completely unconventional and not recommended way. The problem is grammar. I don't know how to learn grammar, I never learned English grammar, it just came naturally. Grammar is why I was hated by all my language teachers in school when every other teacher thought I was a genius. So I'd like to learn Japanese grammar naturally but for that I think I need exposure and as much as I enjoyed Japan, that doesn't really solve the exposure problem because I'm not social and most things you need in day-to-day life don't require grammar. So I'm stuck being retarded for the rest of my life until they make Japanese AI that can talk to you.

>>23631806
I like english vtubers who sings

>>23631871
fair enough
enjoy yourself, friendo

>>23631823
japanese grammar falls into place just like english grammar did
just consume more and you'll get there

>>23630005
Same. I wasn't expecting to actually read it without having to stop and think it through.

>>23630367
I'm one of those retards. It just means it's very hard for me to picture either in my head. When I see it, it's obvious which one is pointing up and which one down. Doesn't really affect JP reps, although I never write anything.

>>23631498
>>23631498
Lmao imagine watching vtubers all day and it not being a tool to aquire a language. Fucking pathetic.

>>23632134
>It just means it's very hard for me to picture either in my head
Let's go back to the other example someone mentioned.
Do you really see nothing if I tell you to imagine an apple? Not a vague form or even a color?

>>23629593
wtf i wrote this and my oshi banned me

>>23631247
Kanji came first, the reason they have kanji is because they borrowed written language from their neighbors. Kana is there to help a lot with pronunciation and other language quirks that I assume don't exist in Chinese (like I get they probably don't have different readings for kanji and they probably use kanji for words like と but I don't understand how they show the difference between tense and shit).

But it is true if you got rid of kanji (and didn't replace it with something else), Japanese would be an unreadable bunch of gobbledygook.

>>23632134
丂ᄃんﾉ乙の lol

>>23629593
Chuki chuki kyun desu

>>23631823
This comment is confusing. Probably the esl. You learnt English by exposure to it. Probably from using the internet and playing games. Not from "being social". I don't understand what would make you think Japanese is any different. It is not. Keep consuming media and you'll get there
Ps: I am assuming you know a fuck ton of vocabulary and basic grammar, because you said that you learnt Japanese. But if you don't, then learn basic grammar, and by that I mean fucking barebones grammatical structure, two weeks worth of watching YouTube tops, and learn a shit ton of vocabulary (that one will take more in the 2year range). Once you've done that keep consuming a shit ton of media (you have to be doing this while learning vocab) and eventually you'll find yourself fully fluent. You literally had this experience before.

>>23632012
I sometimes have that and my cynical side is like "yeah you can read absolutely basic Japanese, fucking yay". I mean it is kinda cool but I can't help it but humiliate myself a little

>>23632375
I mean if they just used spaces, which they do sometimes, it would be readable.annoying,but reafable. Kanji is just fucking neat and I think most literate japs are aware of this

>>23632340
I don't think I have it 100% like some people do. If I think of a whole apple, I don't see anything. If I think about specific details, like the stem, I can vaguely see an image.
Complicated stuff like kanji and people's faces are impossible.

The real chad move is having a JP Chuuba that is an ESL. That way, you sharpen each other's understanding of the language you're trying to learn.

>>23629593
streamers cant read nt5

>>23632623
That's pretty good! Not everyone can do that and the girls really appreciate that you learned some for them.

>>23633099
You do know we are joking when we treat chubas as our gfs, no? We don't have actual interpersonal relationships with them.

>>23632731
it's kind of amazing they memorize all those kanji instead of just... using spaces.

Random fun fact: Korean uses spaces now, but it's because an American introduced spaces to the language back in the early 20th century.

>>23632555
I'm not ESL unfortunately. I assume you were confused because I said I "learned" Japanese as if I meant I was fluent at it. What I meant was I picked it up in the same way I picked up typing. I used to hunt-and-peck back in typing class at school which teachers hate because it slows you down but I still typed faster than most so I would pass the class. I stopped hunting-and-pecking when I realized I had been typing for so many years that I just knew where everything was intuitively. This is how I picked up Japanese, exposure to it over years to the point I realized I could already read it. And it was easy to learn more vocab but I can't teach myself grammar. I don't know how I learned English grammar, my English teachers loved me but I probably still couldn't explain what a fucking adjective is without some context. Or a fucking participle or whatever the fuck. I was reading at a higher grade-level than everyone else from back in elementary school and always acing tests in every subject (including English) without having to think about it but whenever I'd get to learning another language in class (like say French or Spanish), the first thing they try to teach you is grammar rules and I just couldn't do it. The teachers thought I was retarded. Something about grammar rules just doesn't make intuitive sense to me. I guess I had a similar problem once math stopped being about numbers and started being about graphs and shit. I'm good at things until they stop being intuitive.

>>23632731
Yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe it's true, but I sure as fuck wouldn't be able to read it. I don't even know how you'd be able to translate many manga to Japanese without kanji (besides space constraints). You wouldn't be able to write language jokes as a very straightforward example.

>>23630367
Not really the kanji themselves but rather the words composed of them. 上る, 上げる, 上がる, 上せる and the likes are extremely confusing to me

>>23633336
Kanji does a lot more than differentiate words. The Japanese writing system is absolutely beautiful. I mean I don't expect everyone to appreciate it, I always was a literarufag and in the last decade I've been a big aesthethicsfag. From this perspective, the experience of reading japanese is made so much richer by the existence of Kanji, and at my level I'm not even reading deep shit, mainly teen romcoms.

>>23633506
I know for instance all pre 16bit Era video games were kana only, and some of them had a lot of text. You can watch chubas like korone play them and read at speech speed no problem whatsoever.
I mean I do agree Kanji is convenient and I just sperged about how beautiful it is, but I wouldn't call it necessary by any means.

>>23633508
Ah that happens a lot with a lot of Kanji. Some times even worse, like 辛い that can be read either からい spicy, hot; or つらい painful, hard. Those are the really mindfucky ones.
Regarding what you say, I don't know what methodology you use, but I would advice against learning kanji individually. In this case, don't learn the kanji 上, instead learn the word うえ. Then you'll come across 上げる, and you'll learn that as あげる, and so on.

>>23633372
Well I don't really feel like typing an essay, and you seem to be very ignorant regarding language learning. Sorry I know ignorant is often used ad a pejorative, but in this case I don't mean it like that at all. It's natural to not know things. I decided to use this one word though to illustrate properly the fact that there's a whole field of knowledge that relates to your concerns and you don't seem to know the first thing about it, so my advice is to take a few hours and do some serious reaserch on the topic. Learning grammar is of very little necessity, has nothing to do with being capable of outputting the language (I don't know shit about either English nor Spanish grammar, and while my English could be a tad more articulate, I can speak beautifully in Spanish). It doesn't matter. What does matter is that you learn about how the mind acquires and replicates language. I mean you can opt out, but doing so accelerates your learning a ton. I learned in six months of Japanese what most retards going to a collage course pick up in 3 years.

>>23633680
Based on what I've seen in my Kanji studies so far, I can't exactly see how that was feasible for anything beyond very simple things, given all the writing conventions around Kanji, and all the similar readings each word can have in vocab. I assume these games make heavy use of punctuation marks and other such things to handle those situations.

>>23630432
YWNBJ

i'm already bored of hanahira someone give me a better VN for newfags

>>23630814
gladly

>>23633542
>See a word I don't know written in Kanji
>I don't know what it means
>I don't know how to pronounce it (maybe a guess that's right less than 50% of the time, like Subaru totally butchering Yagoo's name
>I don't even know how to look it up in a dictionary without a smartphone
Truly a beautiful system that is by no means antiquated

>>23631548
My condolences anon, keep up the good work champ them condoms for her bf need to come from someone (and it won't be him plus he's black)

>>23634240
Don't. Read shit you enjoy, not shit your level. I mean, both is ideal, but still.
Personally I haven't checked LNs a lot, I'm currently reading 無職転生 for seidoku, and while it has a lot of vocab I don't know that's great for mining. For tadoku-type reading I'm reading 古見さん and 徒然チルドレン. I really enjoy roncom type shit tho. I'll probably pick a yotsuba when I'm done with the volume I'm reading now, I haven't read that in a while.

>>23634353
You don't know what it means because you are illiterate. Toy can't read it and pronounce it because you are not literate enough.
this is also true for English btw.

>>23634516
> you don't know what it means because you haven't already memorized what it means
yes, that is the problem.

I have yet to talk to anyone who complains about kanji who isn't a complete beginner (or hasn't even started studying).

>>23629593
I can read stuff pretty much effortlessly... unless there's kanji involved, then I might struggle a lil' bit.

>>23634724
It's literally the same with most languages, words are arbitrary so if you come across a completely new word you won't know what I means. This is not unique to Japanese. You just seem salty because learning to read Japanese is kinda hard maybe. Before you say that japs spend a retarded amount of time studying Kanji in school, this is only necessary in order to be able to handwrite. Being able to recall Kanji from memory is extremely hard and retarded. But with technology them japs are handwriting less and less and it's really likely that eventually they'll just give up on that fringe aspect of it.

>>23634825
This, the anon complaining Googled once about Japanese and gave up before even starting. Probably an monolingual monkey, he was nevergmi.

i wish every language had grammar as simple as japanese

>>23629593
No

>>23634825
its honestly really nice having a little pictogram reference to help remind me of vocab if i forgot a meaning

>>23634903
I'm mad that when I encounter a word I don't know, which is ALL THE FUCKING TIME because I'm not Japanese, I have to use handwriting kanji recognition to write it and then guess the meaning from the multiple definitions. Or use OCR with even more errors.

>>23635327
read html light novels or vn's with a text hooker and use yomichan

All of the posts itt are all mine. No one cares about a gook language.

>>23635327
You really shouldn't be reading manga then.
1- read manga with furigana: all Shonen manga have furigana on all words. This makes it extremely easy to look up words.
2. Read either a VN or a LN. Use ツッ reader for epubs. Use yomichan. Scan words you don't know. Send them to anki while you're at it.
I think is kinda... Dumb that you're mad at the language, when you're doing shit unnecessarily hard for yourself. What you descrive sounds annoying, but you are to blame either for not investigating the tools at your disposal, or for some reason choosing not to utilize them.
I am pretty newish at this shit, started in spetember/october last year. And I'm reading the romcom manga I talked about earlier no problem, almost not utilizing a dictionary (I'll do sometimes but because I'm curious) and I'm having no difficulty whatsoever at kanji.
I did properly my "how the fuck do you learn jap efficiently" reps properly tho. I would suggest you do the same.

>>23634124
So basically you're telling me to keep doing what I'm already doing and that I was right all along and it'll all work out if I just keep at it. Thanks for the help. I don't disagree but it's not really useful to me in a practical sense right now.

>>23630367
>wait until you realize front spacewise means back timewise, and back spacewise means front timewise
I'm not as dumb as the other anon but fuck dude

>>23630367
>front spacewise means back timewise, and back spacewise means front timewise
That's easy if you think of time as a physical thing

>>23638107
Wat. If time is a line and we're walking forward, the future is in front and the past is in my back.
I mean I get that is kind of an arbitrary abstraction but my brain was molded by a language that frames time like so. I am inteterested in how you would illustrate the opposite perspective.

>>23638250
NTA, but the past is "before you" just as you would be standing "before" a chalkboard. in other words, the past stands in front of the future because it came before it, while the future extends itself from it's origin. we also use this sort of imagery when we say something in time, be it a television program or some other event, when we say "x is following/followed by y". an example would be, "TVshow1 will be followed by TVshow2". In space, would that not mean that TVShow2 came "before" TVshow1 in time? but it clearly doesn't, because TVshow2 hasn't aired yet. TVShow2 is standing before the chalkboard (TVShow1).

>>23638250
If someone gets into line before you, are they in front or behind?

>>23638523
I can see. It's more or less a matter of perspective, in once case focused on the individual moving thru time, so the future is un front, and in the other is time itself the moves, so the future comes after the past and is there fore positioned at its back.
I didn't really have any trouble grasping mae/ato in Japanese, but this exchange was very interesting nonetheless.

Actually eigo does the same thing with before: it means previous time and also in front of. Neat.

>>23634825
your words hurt me

>>23629593
Useless archaic language.

>>23629593
Im doing it bit by bit but honestly it feels like i will never be able to acutally reach somehow decent level and im just wasting my time

>>23639158
what are your goals? what do you actually want to do with the language?

>>23639199
i just want to understand my oshi

>>23639234
how much time are you spending with the language doing things that aren't related to that? cut out as much of it as possible. have you been reading any books on grammar? stop. only open them up *as* you notice what you struggle with. that's just one suggestion, but idk how you actually study, so i can't say much. just remember that in language, listening comprehension is the skill that takes far and way the most time to cultivate. as long as you keep at it every day, you can't fail. anyway, you're not wasting your time, anon.

>>23631568
What the fuck anon? I could do it after two weeks of watching vtubers. Read the fucking chat, they use it so often it's impossible not to memorize.

>>23639398
two weeks? i could do it after 2 days.

>>23639074
l33tspeak chads rise up!

>>23639426
two days? i could do it after 2 hours.

>>23639574
2 hours?! I could do it after 2 minutes

>>23639379
thank you anon, maybe i just need more time...

>>23639743
That anon is pretty wise. If you are consistent, you'll eventually get there no matter what. Some things are more time efficient than others, but yeah. Reading is supposed to help a lot. I am lucky because I was always a reader, love manga, and finde the jp writing system super beautiful and cool. So I'm having a great time. But I focus my time in the things I enjoy and the reasons that I want to learn the language.

>>23639838
i can't wait to go to japanese arcades and when asked why i speak the language reply with "i jack off exclusively to japanese eroge"

>>23639398
Watch your speakhole. That anon is incredibly skilled. It took me 20 years to figure out the 可愛い and I'm still struggling bad with 可愛さ

>>23639962
That is incredibly based.
In a couple years when someone asks how did I learn jp I'll respond "I watched Hakui Koyori to fluency".

>>23639494
Rape of Nanking

>>23639962
By the way red pill me on eroge/VN and recommend your top picks if you feel like it.
Honestly I never was a porn guy, I get off better to memories, and while I love 2d girls and find them incredibly attractive charming an beautiful, am not really horny for them. But I would gladly do it for the reps.

>>23640140
そこまでは打ち明けない
好みは寝取られだらけだから恥ずかしいw

>>23640285
I didn't know 打ち開ける, so I search it and ブチ開ける takes the literal meaning: strike a hole open. So naturally I assumed this was a tittle lmao. That was hilarious.
That's ok でれアノン. Thanks for the laugh

>>23630209
congrats, you got played by a larping EOP

>>23630432
> even nips are getting annoyed at having to remember all the kanji
how long till the "required to know" kanji list becomes <500?

>>23630640
> 上手い
> 上手
the trailing い is how you distinguish between them

>>23640111
I bet you believe the Holohoax as well.

>>23642797
SIX GORILLION VIDEOS WERE DELETED YOU FAGGOTS
DON'T BELIEVE IN PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WHITEWASH THAT HISTORY

>>23642699
Isn't the required-to-know list based on these are the kanji the government is allowed to use. They won't be able to restrict it without rewriting government documents like the constitution.

>>23643164
is it?
I wonder how many actual kanji is currently needed to have a Nene-level understanding of Japanese...
1000?

>>23643198
The required list definitely includes kanji nobody actually uses simply because they are included in government stuff. On the other hand, there may be kanji everyone uses that are not on it. The point of the required list is those are the ones you are required to learn in the school education system. But like anything anyone learns in school, you forget all the stuff that doesn't affect your daily life. Gaijin always focusing on that list is a bit nonsensical. All languages predate their written form so you don't need to know a single kanji if you don't want to and if you want to be literate, you'll come across far more than a required list for children. Most people in the world aren't actually literate. Most "English" written on the Internet isn't even high-school tier, every language does the same thing. But if you want to read classic literature, then that won't suffice.

>>23643846
interesting... I wonder if anyone's actually ever made a list of "necessary" kanji for daily life in Japan. Even HoloJP girls mess up kanji sometimes, so I'm guessing the list of actually needed kanji is quite smal.

>>23629593
I just started Japanese on Duolingo and so far I can recognize like 5 hiragana and if presented with what sound they are side by side, I can do like 15 or so. It's not as hard as I expected but fuck man, there's some stupidly similar ones

>>23644218
Hiragana and Katakana are the easy part.

ITT: These are all my posts.

>>23629593
I want to chat with my nip chuubas but I'm too scared that I might be misunderstood or that I might have misunderstood what they were talking about...

>>23629593
When you want to fit in despite not being Japanese
>かわいい
When you absolutely want the streamer and JP chat to know you're an outsider using tl tech
>可愛い

>>23644338
How many times have you seen some dipshit saying stupid shit in chat and they just keep talking? Channel moron energy and you won't be self-conscious anymore.

>>23644218
It's easy to tell them apart, the problem for me is when it gets messy like handwriting or smudged ink. Then it can get very frustrating, not that it really matters if it's shima or jima in every case but it is still annoying when you want to get it right.

>When your name is Zhang
>可愛

>>23644218
Duolingo will not get you anywhere, sorry to say. I have a family member who's been studying English for years now and they haven't moved from the starting line, apart from a handful of words here or there. It's pathetic and I warned them that that's not how language is acquired but they are addicted and do it anyway.

what's the difference between 行き(いき)and 行き(ゆき)
my reference material isn't very clear about this

>>23644338
I've used my extremely broken starter Nihongo skills in a card game streamer's chat and made mistakes left and right, as expected, calling the opponent 的 instead of 相手 etc.
He just replied as if I didn't sound like a retard and appreciated me trying to learn the language. Felt good man.

>>23644218
シツソン

>>23645312
Whoops, there's another one. I meant 敵.

Useless archaic language and the Japanese are war criminals.

>>23645312
>>23644833
That's reassuring, I will talk to my nip chuubas now.

Some easy reading practice:
https://exhentai.org/g/1657360/0468e4241a/

>>23646091
I can't read all these kanji.

>>23646091
http://capture2text.sourceforge.net/
https://www.kanjitomo.net/

>>23646352
>>23646302
God damn I can't hit the correct replies today at all.

>>23630640
Umai is the Japanese reading, jouzu is the Chinese reading. Unfortunately Japanese decided to adopt two different ways of reading kanji.

>>23646091
>can't read these letters unless they're fuckhuge
I feel like a kid again

>>23645293
just google it bro
>意味は同じです。でも行き(ゆき)というほうがフォーマルです。駅では、東京行き(ゆき)です などというアナウンスが多いですが、普段は、みんな行き(いき)を使っています

>>23647134
I also keep hearing it pronounced as ゆく in songs very often.
ntaけど勉強になった

>>23647223
songs, especially older ones, use a lot more formal japanese iirc
がんばれ on your studies anon, just remember you can pretty much google anything and get a good answer

>>23645342
This is like chinese kanji 己已巳 or 申由甲 lol

>>23633330
Tell that to fancucks

>>23629841
shouldn't it be a wo between m*nk* and tabetai?
t. still learning

>>23645647
EOP

>>23632375
>like I get they probably don't have different readings for kanji
There are many hanzi (kanji) with different ways of reading in Chinese, sometimes the reading are only different in tones (Chinese has 4 tones + 1 neutral tone, fuck me)
Usually they have different meaning depending on how you read them.

>>23648247
you can but don't need to,its better to shortened it in a casual convo

>>23648247
language is ultimately just a medium to use for communication, so as long as you can relay the crucial info to the other party properly its all good. the JPs also love shortening everything in their daily convos so you would ironically sound more foreign by following the established rules

>>23649594
How do you teach that in class though. If it's not possible to write down the different readings of a character (the way furigana allows), then how can you have any written record of how something was pronounced in a variant reading. It must be very obvious by context what definition is being used, right?

>>23651332
Chinese uses small symbols on top of the pinyin.
Pinyin is like romaji in Japanese.
These symbols determine the tones.
There are 4 tones + 1 neutral tone.

>>23629593
kawaii is always written in kana, anon.
dekiru? More like dekiron't.

>>23651332
>>23651568
Some hanzi have different reading, might be different pinyin, or tones or both.
Example is 好
很好 hěn hǎo (very good)
好吃 hào chī (tastes good)
Notice the first hao uses 3rd tone while the second hao uses 4th tone.

>>23649594
Chingchong is probably the most ridiculously stupid nightmare language anyone ever came up with. It has barely any syllables and barely any ways syllables can be combined, leading to syllables having ten meanings or more.

I have youtube comments disabled because I'm a human

>>23629593
I can understand it, but kanji is not worth the effort.

>>23651662
Another note:
Compound words with 2 3rd tones have a special reading rule.
The first 3rd tone must be read as the 2nd tone.
Example is 很好 hěn hǎo should be read as hén hǎo.
>>23651706
Chinese doesn't have any syllables.
Chinese is full of hanzi (kanji).
Enjoy those 10k+ hanzi dictionary.
You only need around 3000 vocabs though.
Some vocabs might use the same kanji but different meaning or use compound words.
Example is 行 which can be read as xíng or háng.

>>23651945
>不行 bùxíng = no
Actually it means like not permitted or won't do.

>>23651945
>Chinese doesn't have any syllables.
Anon, every language has syllables.
hěn is a syllable. hǎo is a syllable. chī is a syllable.
Syllables are abstract phonetic structures. The issue with Chink is that each of them has a ton of extremely distinct meanings, because they don't have the phonetic inventory for more. Their "solution" was to give every meaning its own symbol. Rather than to develop the language to use more syllables.

こんばんは皆さん、名前は出来ないくん。よろしくお願いいたします。

Might as well ask here, a friend of mine corrected my お気に to お気に入り, why did they do this. just to confuse me or does it actually matter which one you use?

>>23652198
I understand what you mean.
But in Chinese, each syllable can refer to multiple hanzi which are words with their own meaning.
In most languages, syllables are used to construct a word.

>>23652514
But in Chinese syllables also costruct a word (phonetically).
The issue is that each word could also be a different word due to how many meanings all syllables have. Which is why you rely on the crutch of written symbols, which is why Chinese is the worst language people actually speak.

>>23629593
if i do my reps will my oshi love me?

>>23629593
No because fuck kanji.

>>23652410
not an expert but it seems to me they pick cues from the surrounding phrase to tell the kanjis apart. if you try to type "oto wa taisetsuna" (sound is important) the first word, "oto" is converted to the kanji forr brother "ototo" BUT when you keep typing the rest the input method somehow knows you meant the word for sound and changes it. it's kind of cool but also super confusing.

>>23652410
is the first: Ogenki ni (in good health)
and the second: oki ni iri (worry/don't worry)?
Maybe that's why she corrected you kanjis change reading based on the whole phrase.

>>23657678
Both are supposed to mean "favourite" according to jisho and I'm pretty sure I've seen just お気に used like that in the wild. お気に入り is used in a few games i play so I know that's used as "favourite" as well

Be honest anons, what's your Japanese level? How far into your studies are you, what can you do, what cant you do?

>>23629593
Still do them, but I watch ESL vtubers now.

>>23633330
dyrb? there are genuine retards here who take things way to seriously like that one british moonafic.

>>23629593
why would i bother learning a dying language that goes as hard into form over function as possible?

>>23639962

>>23644218
dpqcou... we're so fucked

>>23644338
i've already made so many embarrassing mistakes that i don't even think about it anymore. just go out and make your own mistakes.

>>23659915
I'm n6

>>23661581
lol he can't just say that out loud! poker face man

>>23661897
I've come across promo material in jp that confuses n and h as well. never really tought about it but yeah they're actually pretty similar to an untrained eye

Was creating a language that is unmatched in the pun department worthy of having so few syllables in your vocabulary? I heard that that was a major problem for students trying to learn English since that, up until this point, they had only know the kanas

>>23659915
N6 I guess. I can read hiragana and katakana, and understand words like omoshiroi, tsugi, shigoto, tashikani, haishin, owari, hajimaru yo, muzui, ureshii, the 4 seasons, some shapes, both types of numbers, some food, random nouns, animals, etc
The only kanji I know is my oshis names and 凸 is in totsumachi 行 is row 雨 rain 人 person

>>23662454
>>23662133
What's stopping you from just learning? 30 min of vocab learning a day can bring you very far, the start is the most important part because after you get the basics down you will start passively attaining Japanese without doing much beyond just being curious sometimes.
In short, learn basic vocabulary and grammar which you can achieve easily in less than half a year. Then you just start getting better and better without realizing it

>>23642699
The number of kanji required increase because of manga and TV for example
This kanji 亀 かめ turtle is an usual kanji because of Dragon Ball, or to take less place in subtitles, I always see this kanji 髭 (ひげ barb) and 誰 (だれ who) even if these kanji aren't teach in school

>>23662287
I'm not japanese but I'm gonna guess that they have a hard time learning English since it's so different from japanese and they don't really get a chance to speak with anyone who is actually fluent. In EU you learn more english from playing Counter Strike than you learn at school.

>>23647566
Japanese have both

>>23662669
I don't learn fast. I'm learning at my own pace. I'm fucking retarded

>>23629593
I've been doing daily Anki since late February.

I don't do comprehensive listening immersion yet. My reading immersion comes from (attempting) to read raws on nhentai. The thought process is that a lot of hentai plots are the same, so it'd be easier to recognize kanji if I see them over and over again in different scenarios.

It's pretty satisfying when I can comprehend whether that 中出し was consensual or not. On the other hand, I tend to lose my boner when I start thinking too hard

木 tree
林 thicket
森 forest
Why can't all Japanese be simple like this?

>>23659915
Started in September of last year. I'm currently reading a cringe isekai novel. I'm 30% in. It has a ton of vocab I don't know, but that's okay I use yomichan. Ocationally there's a sentence I just don't understand even looking up words. I'll just slap it into deepl. Other than that I'm reading manga, recently I read two volumes of komi San and now I'm reading a romcom 4coma called tzuredure children I think. It's super cute and pretty funny. These manga I can read without issue whatsoever. Sometimes there's some things I don't understand. If I feel like it I check a translated version, but sometimes I don't even do that. I scarsely use a dictionary when reading this, only when I'm genuinely curious about a word.
Regarding chubas, sometimes I understand a lot. Depends on the activity. Game streams are often quite understandable. Sometimes like 70%. Zatsus are between 10 to 30, but Ocationally I kinda understand a whole tangent and it feels good.
I'm watching anime with en subs because I want to (not for reps) and it's pretty common for me to understand whole sentences from audio only.
Overall I'm doing quite good. I've been putting a lot of time into it but because I enjoy it, and I feel pretty steady advance. Being able to read raw manga written in runes feels pretty good. Also Kanji is really not that hard. I mean I might be for some people, but if you're a begginer/aspiring don't let yourself be intimidated. Thank u for reading my blog.

>>23659915
I've studied up to half N3 in grammar.
idk in Vocabulary I learn whatever I find more useful so I dont follow the JPLT

>>23663184
Now do that with女

>>23663261
Oh no...

>>23662669
I'm almost finished with the core 2.3k deck.

>>23663463
so you understand these

以上、無理、命、理解、頼む、確認、任せる、程度、表情、状態、可能

If so you're way beyond N5 already

>>23663575
my grammar is n6, I haven't checked in awhile but when I used kanji grid I had like 10% knowledge of "seen n1 kanji"

>>23663575
Nta and I didn't do a core deck because that sounds retarded, I mined my own, but I can understand all of those! Except 可能, had to look it up but I'm positive I wouldn't have had any issue reading 可能性

>>23644338
I've accidentally "bullied" Ko'one before because I didn't understand that the nuance of one of my statements could be taken that way kek

>>23659915
good at listening and ok at speaking, I can get 80% of what a regular JP chuuba is saying (but only about 50% of Marine).
My Kanji is still dogshit though, I'm trying to get out of NEEThood before I start practising.

>>23663463
big mistake. should have done ankidrone starter pack instead. core decks cripple people.

>>23663261
輪姦

>>23662750
well that makes it confusing as hell.
I'll see if I can whip up a simpler guide in a few years once I'm fluent enough myself.

>>23663900
kys

>>23663900
I don't get why people are so determinate to go against the advice I pretty much everyone who has used anki for a prolonged amount of time: make your own fucking cards
Maybe getting to around 500 vocab with a pre-made is okay, but fucking 2k...
When I started I tried a few of these, btw. They are absolutely retarded. They were trying to make me lean how to read "meeting room in an office environment" before I knew how to read "that loli sure is cute and funny". Absolute retardation.
Mine your own cards, it's so fucking easy with yomichan and ankiconnect and a good template.

>>23664053
I am making mine own cards, why are you assuming I'm not?

>>23663933
Why? People shouldn't lesrn from a fucking list, not seek reassurance from a random number. You just look up vocab you encounter. If it seems reasonable you slap it into your anki. If it's common/used vocab you'll come across a lot more. It's super simple. Nerds really like to ovethink this shit.

>>23664120
I wasn't talking about you, but Itthink you recommended a pre-made. Maybe not, I don't even know, I was folloring the tree of replying to the core2k anon.

>>23664178
I'm >>23663463

>>23664192
What did you mean by 2.3k deck? Ain't that a pre-made?

>>23664178
If you must do a premade deck (for example, you don't have much time to make your own cards), core decks are the least favorable choice. This is why people recommend ankidrone starter pack.

>>23664295
But making cards thu yomichan requires no time. You just push a button.
Resding does take time but the priority has to be reading, not doing anki. If you don't have enough time to read then you should cute your anki time by like 80% and use that time to read.

>>23648247
The を can be shortened away, but the い in verb-たい MUST be removed when used with すぎる.

>>23664285
It is, but I'm also in the process of making a premade deck albeit I'm not very far into it with only 227 cards at the moment.

>>23664133
Expanding it yourself is fine, but having a list of "base" stuff that you need to just visit/read signboards/navigate the cities etc. and in general be able to have regular conversations with people, seems like a fine idea.

>>23635327
Handwriting is one of the worst ways to find kanji, most dictionaries do a shitty job with anything that starts to get even remotely complex. Just go with radicals and number of strokes, it will take some time at first to get used to but with enough practice you will find any kanji in under 15 seconds.

>>23638250
Think like you're flipping the pages of a calendar. You flip the past up, the future months are underneath.
Perhaps instead of walking through time, think as if you're falling through time.

>>23629593
For me it's 俺はあなたの肛門を食べたい。

>>23664404
In al seriousness I don't know you and I don't know how you study. So you shlund take my advice at face value.
That said: I would ditch the core deck like now and instead just read, mine words thru that reading and do reps from that one deck. I also think having more than one deck is, well, bad. You probably are apprehensive of losing your progress but an anki deck is not a goal, it's a tool. You learned what you learned, and you know what you know. Deleting or ditching a deck won't change that.

>>23664530
fair enough

>>23664447
Man I seriously don't think so. I feel like a lot of people spend a ton of time doing study adjacent shit and not actually studying. Language learning communities are filled with this, people constantly looking for the next new tool, list, how much vocab to do this, to do that, etc. I don't think a list of necessary Kanji is useful at all. You need what you need and the efficient and less painful way to learn is to encounter this moji in the wild and looking them up.
The one thing we jp learners don't have and that would be neat to have is a decent grammar dictionary. Like the better grammars explanations are yt vids, and there's not a way to search for a piece of grammar and just have that be answered. At least not for begginers, I'm guessing as soon as I can more or less navigate the internet in jp this will stop being an issue.

>>23664757
I'd say the biggest hurdle of "getting into" Kanji is the same problem that One Piece has.
There's too much of it.
Sure, you could say "start at one place, and take one step at a time", but for a lot of people, keeping that up for 2000 freaking kanji can be difficult.
Having a step-by-step type of thing, where if you learn 'x' number of Kanji, you can understand 90% of certain type of novels/manga, is probably a good place to start off a bite-sized way to study Japanese.

>>23664757
Once you start getting to an intermediate level there is plenty of japanese material made for japanese people explaining some obscure unused grammar you may find in the wild in youtube. Beginners also tend to want to understand everything at the same time, it just is not possible. A good channel I recommend (which helps me to this day with nuances I never heard) is "japanese ammo with misa", granted most content there is in english, it is not for complete beginners.

Core 2.3k is good, then you start building your own decks.
There's no reason to hate on a core deck when it takes only a couple of months to finish and gives you a basis upon which you can build.
When you can't understand the most basic sentences, you won't really even be aware what to add to your own deck.
Do the core deck, learn basic grammar, after which you just start immersing and watching Japanese stuff, looking up some words sometimes and building your own deck out of words you deem to be necessary.

>>23664932
But the thing is that someone with that type of mentality is never gonna make it to fluency. The best you can do for them is to try to dispel some myths and try to make them understand for example that Kanji is really really not that difficult or annoying, particularly if you don't go about it the retarded way.
Also do you really think you can teach trhu some list or magic method enough vocab to understand 90% of anything? That sounds ridiculous.

>>23665059
Bro 2.3k is a ton. I would agree with you if we were talking about 500, maybe 1k. But 2k is a shit ton and I don't think a begginer can learn that in two months.

>>23629593
sorry anon but I WILL NOT do my reps and I WILL use English in her chat just so she notices and tries her best to talk to me (the kaigi niki) meanwhile you continue to LARP as being Japanese (you will never be Japanese) and blend into the thousands of faceless viewers

>>23665059
Any core deck is based on iKnow data, which itself is based on very old newspapers. This is a fundamental flaw Ankidrone Starter Pack doesn't have because it's based on words commonly used every day in Japan. Various flavors like core2.3k or core6k differ in how they are sorted, but I think you can't make something good if you mix shitty cards.
>There's no reason to hate on a core deck when it takes only a couple of months to finish
Or you can choose a better deck.

>>23664053
Only took me 1 year to go through 6k. And I do need all the words I learned.

If you like art watercolor by shibasaki is a pretty decent way to learn, old guy drawing watercolors while talkikg and you have japanese plus english subsö

>>23665077
Grammar is different, and I've never had trouble with it. I'm talking more about Kanji in general.
There's definitely a fuzzy list of kanji that are absolutely required to understand ANY level of Japanese conversation. Like 日、赤、一、店、駅、言 etc. I just think it'll serve as a good "starting objective" to have maybe 300 or 500 in 100 sized chunks to learn.
Mentality is also a different thing, because they'll never learn no matter what, but there are definitely people who have trouble knowing where to start with Kanji, and having something like this might be helpful to get them started along the road to learning imo.

>>23664937
Yes, and I know. I don't care much about grammar. I personally used the cure dolly vids when I started, and haven't thought about grammar since. I think soon I'll give that content a review because I've consumed a lot of language so there's a ton of things that would click now.
But yeah I understand that grammar and language in general just fallas into place over time. I'm not worried about that at all. I was just saying that the one resource the jp learning community lacks is a decent grammar dictionary.

>>23665207
I'm not saying it soedng work, I'm saying it seems very inefficient. I learned English without any type of study and not using anki. This doesn't mean I should do the same for jp. I could do the same, but I choose to go a more efficient way about it. You already grinded that deck. Good for you, really. But I don't think is wise to recommend the same to others. You can very easyly aquire a base of around 1k most common words, and then start reading and mining your own vocabulary. I'm doing just that and at my current rhythm I'll be at around 6k words but the end of year one too. The difference is that 5k of those words I met when reading a novel, have an example sentence from actual content I read, and I chose to put on my srs.

>>23665250
If you replace "Kanji" with "vocab" then I can somewhat agree with you. Isolated kanji is useless. A list of 1 or 2k most common and useful vocab for daily life could be useful. I'm also pretty sure this already exists.

>>23665448
I learned English through being tortured all day, everyday, for 6 months when I was 10.
Mining your deck would be better in a perfect environment. But in reality you come home from work and you don't really have the energy to make 20 flashcards and then do your deck.
Honestly, I'm not really sure how people should learn anymore, but they should probably spend more time reading.

>>23665732
That is some based furigana for whats there anon kek

>>23665732
People should just learn, because you always make progress, wasting time not learning to find out how to learn "properly" is retarded
Just learn a new thing every day and you're making progress. People's biggest problem is not sticking through it

>>23665732
All people I've spoken to or seen when orbiting learning communities have all been readers so I agree. Or they're utaites, not sure why utaites always seem to make it as well.
We should all read more.

time to delete another deck

>>23666076
I mostly quit anki and just read shit and look up words when I feel like it, it may not be as efficient but the whole anki slave grind can really burn one out.

>>23665732
Wage slaves with less than one our of free brain power per day honestly don't stand a chance at a task as vast as acquiring a language. Not trying to be a dick, but language is a skill that takes a shit tone of hours to master. And these people are basically already dead. It'd be like realistically pretending to learn to play piano proficiently by dedicating half an hour of rotbrain to mindless practice. It's not gonna happen.

>>23665590
yeah, I guess jukugo is what I meant. Though it will probably include some frequently used single kanji as well.
If it exists, I have not seen it yet.

>>23666239
I mean they can, it will just take many more years, that is if they don't lose motivation mid way.

>>23666172
This is the issue with anki. People use it to study and get burnt out. It's supposed to be used as a tool to retain shit you learnt elsewhere. And it really should be a small percentage of your daily study time. And when I say study what I really mean is consuming content. Just read.
Si far I'm finding anki extremely useful. I think it is enabling me to read a lot. But I won't hesitate to delete my deck or to ditch the system if I ever feel like it's being a hindrance. Actually I'm pretty sure in a couple months I'll just delete my deck and start a new one with monolingual definitions. The words I know I know, and if I forget words I have in my current deck then I'll just add them to the new one.

>>23666076
I read a study that singing will help you memorize things, the problem with japanese lyrics is that they can actually fuck up and confuse a beginner's learning even more because of how "creative" the authors can be. Definitively would be very careful with what kind of music you choose to study but they can be a powerful tool as well.

>>23666076
Singing karaoke is tough, you have to read the lyrics fast enough and they always use autistic kanjis like 其の or a hyougai alternative to a jouyou kanji.

>>23665849
I agree. I'm this Dick head >>23666239 but in earnestness I think that as long as you stick to it, you'll get there, no matter what you do, and that you should do whatever it is that you enjoy enough to stick with for a long time. For most people endlessly grinding anki is the opposite of this. Traditional study is useless. If you enjoy reading, do that. I'd you don't, do whatever you enjoy. Watch chubas an look up some vocab here and there. Anything will do, as long as you don't stop.

I'm mostly done at this point. Started learning Japanese almost a decade ago, have been living in Japan for most of it. I watched some Holo JP clips which I guess counts as "reps". And for the ones with subs, I marveled at how bad they tend to be. Often made by ESLs, I'm sure.

Yeah, it's 3.30 AM here. But it's Golden Week, so it's fine.

For me it's Imabi.net

>>23667929
useless

read that, weebs

>>23670552
Jesus, I missed it by 14 years.

>>23670552
Not much of a fan of the unrealistic monster dicks these boys get.