/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

reddit topic

>>21978811
so, who? vs who?
sorry I only follow NijiIN, so i don't know the lore of both sides

Mori is the strongest since she is a shinigami
She even have a mini Bleach comic, so it depends on how much Riatsu she have and her shikai / bankai abilities

>>21978811
Anon, come on now. Gods who control abstract concepts universe-wide vs. low level magic from fantasy races that can at most transform into things like dragons and shoot fire at you. Omega tranny went overboard in the overpowered department.

>>21978811
NijiEN doesn't have anyone that can contend with the embodiment of space or concept of chaos.

>>21978920
It really depends. If you go by canon ability no one in heaven or hell could control enna, so they stuck her on earth where her powers don’t work.
Rosemi is Satan, but pomu created her making her some sort of old god disguised as a fairy. Elira is older than the planet and has the powers of the sun. Nina is the goddess of luck.
None of it matter though since council are universal forces.

>>21979007
Classical era gods could carry the entire earth on their backs or move the sun, but would get stabbed and killed by a mortal when the chips were down. The thinking that beig in charge of great forces makes you powerful yourself is relatively recent, probably fueled by the greatest tribalniggery of all time (religion)

Even the weakest ENs like Gura, Kiara, or Mumei still have a ton of power. The others could be interpreted to be near-undefeatable due to otherworldly abilities and eternal life. HoloEN is busted balance wise.

All of council are pseudo gods, they would win hands down

arguing about vtuber power levels is aggressively retarded because it always ends with "and then they became a minecraft streamer."
that said probably holoEN because like half of them are gods or some shit

>>/hfz/

>>21978811
Sorry OP, due to Omegay's power fantasies, pretty much all of Holo EN are on the level of gods or immortal, aside from Ame.

>>21978811
>>21978920
>>21979007
>>21979008
>>21979153
>>21979226
>>21979264
>>21979508
>>21979703
>>21981504
Hi, I'm the powerscaler who was responsible for picrel. I'm going to settle this debate in the most fair, proper and unbiased way possible: feats and statements. I'm going to refer to https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System when I namedrop a level with a number and a letter so please check there for more detailed explanations. Believe it or not, this battle is actually closer than you all think.

First of all, the strongest HoloEN at their maximum potential is undoubtedly Bae. Me and a couple of anons already had a long discussion on this subject (https://archive.wakarimasen.moe/vt/thread/11798114/)), but long story short, Bae at max strength ranges from "Low 2-C: Universe level+" to "2-A: Multiverse level+", mostly because she is said to be "chaos itself", and Omen (https://youtu.be/BOWi6Pclr48?t=69)) states that chaos have existed "since the genesis".

Now surely nobody in NijiEN can compete with this level of power, right? Enter Pomu.

People underestimate her because she's this little fairy who looks like she couldn't harm anything. But really, after the likes of Kirby and Haachama, people should know better by now. Aside from all of her random OP powers she have (which suspiciously gives off a Haachama vibe):
>>21928718
>>21979153

Pomu is legit at least "2-C: Low Multiverse level" by powerscaling. This is because of the existence of what is later known as "Cursed Pomu", an eldritch horror version of Pomu capable of manipulating entire multiverses and breaking the 4th wall at the same time (Youtube and the streaming system itself).

As seen in https://youtu.be/0c_Ipp2_rnw?t=210, Elira launched her copy of The Henry Stickmin Collection. However, instead of getting to the main screen of Henry Stickmin, Pomu suddenly replaced the entire game (and by extension, the entire copy of the Henry Stickmin multiverse, which by itself contains other universes such as Super Mario 64), AND took over Elira's stream until Elira was able to gain control back of her own stream by manipulating the cursor. This is a straight-up "significantly affect" feat on a multiversal-scale, equivalent to the creation/destruction of a multiverse.

So to answer the question: Who would win in a one on one fight, no prep time? If we go by actual canonical feats, Pomu. If we go by theoretical max potential, then probably Bae. Either way, everyone else in NijiEN and HoloEN beside Pomu and Bae are basically fodder compared to these two, with the exception of Full Power IRyS (who could also be multiversal due to "I witnessed the creation of the multiverse" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgZdh8S4dAk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvg4SUna5xw)), and Theoretical Full Power Rosemi (reality-bending on the scale of at least Low 2-C: Universe level+ - https://youtu.be/M5uAWNCyquc?t=1283).).

>>21978811
Don't know but I want to fuck the garbage post dragon now.

>>21978811
Lorewise is faggotry, who would win in a "rrat fight" a professional sumo wrestler (Sasaki Saku) or a retired yakuza, now professional boxer (Inugami Korone)

>>21982707
Neat

>>21982707
Whatever, time stop. Game over.

>>21983550
unless you can counter a time stop

>>21983582
There is no way to counter omnipotent God stopping time

>>21983632
Can Kronii even stop time without the clock Ame stole? Why does the clock exist if she can theoretically control time at her mercy?

>>21978811
I don’t know but why is my peepee hard?

>>21983724
Yes she can, and don't worry about it.

>>21982707
>I witnessed the creation of the multiverse
Won't that make Irys below Elira? That dragon is so extremely ancient that she could have met god before existence became reality

>>21983959
The whole "Elira met God"/"Elira is a billion years old" is, afaik, actually not canon. Elira straight-up said "no" at that moment.
https://youtu.be/uovznFlkdQ0?t=2992

But let's say for argument sake, Elira met God is canon. However, even with this, nowhere did it say it was before "existence became reality". I'm not going to make assumptions and will go only by stated facts. So really, "Elira met God" by itself isn't a statement that directly translates into powerscaling, since it could very well be (and is most likely) after the creation of the universe, since all we got from Elira is that she is above a couple of millions years old, and the universe is typically way, way older than that.

>>21983865
Where's your source?

>>21978920
Link to comic?
>Kubo is a morifag

>>21978811
Selen already destroyed Holomyth in that one lewd fanfic.

Didn't Sana already destroy the universe until kronii undid it? That's a pretty big feat for time and space

Why are all western vtubers chuuni shit. JP is just a bunch of highschoolers, college students, animals, knights, and low level demons. Western vtubers have to be able to compete against Goku and Marvel bullshit level characters in strength for absolutely no fucking reason with some relation to personally meeting God or seeing the creation of the universe.

>>21984743
The fact is that there is an actual answer written down but only the nijis could know this, so we can only analyze based on Finana reaction. Finana mentioned god, adam and eve, which obviously hinting a time so long ago where those three are still buddies, a time before adam fucks up and got kicked out of heaven into a new reality.

>straight-up said "no"
Ofcourse, she's always 18 when asked

>>21978811
I don't think anyone can beat the Council, they're pretty much goddesses.

>>21983724
Maybe Kronii can stop time but Ame isn't affected since she have the watch.

>>21985643
What Elira said is Word of God (the TV Tropes concept). This trumps any implications we might get from analyzing Finana's (who btw, isn't even the writer/creator of Elira's lore/"story") reaction since it will always remain fan speculations at best.

And by Occam's Razor, the most simple explanation is the most likely explanation. i.e., you don't assume Elira is lying without seeing solid evidence that indicates she is lying.

>>21982707
Actually based. Thanks, anon.

>>21984743
>source
Her debut stream she stopped, rewound, and fast forwarded time.
>>21985987
Stops time before the button is pushed
Honestly, time based powers without limit just win, and that's what Kronii has. End of discussion.

>>21978811
Pretty much >>21979007
Kronii alone could solo all of NijiEN

>>21983632
>>21985853
>>21988522
Stopping time is a hax. Hax in general only affects beings of universal level and below. The most prominent example of this is Goku straight-up moving through erased time. Additionally, scientifically speaking, time is our 4th dimension, meaning if one can destroy the dimensions, they would be "above time" logically.

Perhaps most importantly, council are NOT gods. How can they be gods when the actual gods had to create the council themselves? Basic logic, people.

And EVEN if they're god, as mentioned by this anon >>21979226, a god's power level fluctuates too much throughout history for it to mean anything on its own. Really, the only way you can make sure they're this super powerful being is if you can see the extent of their power in action.

>>21985308
Sana never destroyed the universe; she only destroyed the earth, which makes it a "5-B: Planet level" feat. Also, it wasn't Kronii who restored everything, it was Fauna who restored the planet, and Mumei who restored "civilization" (they mentioned this in Fauna's debut stream and in a council collab I believe).
https://youtu.be/iICu7NcUK4o?t=392
https://youtu.be/5SvarR1zE74?t=77

>>21988340
I'll give you rewind and fast forward time, since she did indeed do that in the debut stream. But where is it explicitly shown that she is able to stop time? Give me the timestamp, otherwise I'll have to consider it non-canon.
And no, being able to rewind and fast forward time doesn't automatically mean you can stop time. Pretty of fictional characters can travel through time without being able to stop it. And don't give me that "because she is the embodiment of time she is obviously able to stop time" nonsense; I want cold, hard facts if you're going to be all "Honestly, time based powers without limit just win, and that's what Kronii has. End of discussion." about it.

>>21978811
SELEN I KNOW YOU ARE /HERE/ PLEASE MARRY ME I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, I AM THE STRONGEST POSTER LORE-WISE

>>21988904
How does Ame work since she's also a multiversal being? Is she Dr Who tier with the watch?

>>21983550
>>21983582
The funniest thing is, Pomu has actually implied that she too have control over time to an extent.

In https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83DlJfgtQ7I, after running into some confusion with reading time zones, Pomu proposes her own time system in order to abolish and replace the current system of telling time. Before she can finish however, she is stopped by "The Fed". https://youtu.be/5_wOqaqm-SA?t=15727

In the stream immediately after, she then states "'Pomu casually reinventing time because she feels like it'? Oh yeah" (this is preceded by a discussion of the "inventing time" event in the previous stream), heavily implying that she could have done it if she actually tried.
https://youtu.be/WbHhPUnLAGU?t=3430
This concept of time glove also later became a member emote, making it irrefutably canon.

But I guess it doesn't really matter due to >>21988904, huh?

>>21978811
Don't know anything about the lore stuff but Selen could probably body slam anyone to a coma

>>21978811
Which Vtuber has comedy gag powers? That one wins.

>>21982707
Holy autism. When was the last time you went outside?

>>21989651
Ame's Durability is most likely Multiversal since all the Ames across the different timelines work as one (kinda like a hivemind), meaning to truly kill her, you would need to destroy the entire timeline. This makes sense since Kronii isn't able to stop Ame from abusing time, because guess what? Kronii is NOT a multiversal being; she's "High 3-A: High Universe level" thanks to her "rewinding the universe to the beginning of time" feat in her debut stream.

However, Ame's Attack Potency would actually be "High 3-A: High Universe level" as well (albeit not as powerful as Kroniis), since she is stated to be able to "destroy part of the timeline" with her time shenanigans. So unless she is said/shown to be able to destroy the ENTIRE timeline, she wouldn't truly be "Tier 2: Multiversal". But tbf she, like Kronii, is fairly close to it.

>>21991433
Didn't Ame have a "Nuke Timeline" button in her old office?

>>21991557
yup

>>21991557
You mean this?
https://youtu.be/MhcIdutP0L8?t=10103

There she has a NUKE button. After she pressed it, it shows what appears to be the earth blowing up in the background. Nothing there indicates that what is being blown up is a whole timeline, so it would count as a "5-B: Planet level" feat at best.

>>21985987
Kronii's said she can take the watch back at any time she wants and is letting Ame keep it to be nice.

Overall Kronii's powers are how chunni she wants to be since she's rotated between saying there's a multiverse of multiple Kroniis or that she is just a single entity among all multiverses.

>>21988904
They're concepts, meaning they're beyond the physical plain and gods. Perhaps even beyond providence, which is what can restrict what gods can and be.

Kronii's one weakness is she's arrogant and lazy so even if she's the most powerful being, she can be outwitted or her pride be used against her causing her downfall.

>>21989973
The problem there it's just her discussing it, she doesn't actually do it, and the fact that the Feds can stop her shows she's not omnipotent, or even a god if a federal authority can get her to abandon such a plan.

>>21993400
>the Feds can stop her shows she's not omnipotent, or even a god if a federal authority can get her to abandon such a plan.
I never said she was omnipotent, or even a god though. And "The Feds" in her universe is apparently an organization so powerful that they can permanently change the (multi)universe as they see fit, in a way that they can selectively erase things from the entire timeline.

https://youtu.be/DL0K8rGikeQ?t=4899

Here, after The Feds surrounds Cupidmu (one of the many Pomu variants), the protag tried to prevent it by "reloading the save", but instead he get booted back to the beginning of the stream, and even though he travelled back in time, Cupidmu is dead.
That is some Time Variance Authority shit if I see one.

>>21989374
Never give up

I love powerscaling anon. He always makes sure to remind people.

>>21993400
>They're concepts, meaning they're beyond the physical plain and gods. Perhaps even beyond providence, which is what can restrict what gods can and be.
Source: Trust me bro, amirite?

Sorry man, but your argument doesn't work if only goes by your headcanon. And if they are so powerful, why didn't they create the multiverse themselves as they see fit?

>>21994763
News flash kid, everything here is headcanon and even the stories told by the streamers could just be them making stuff up and not be a true gauge of their power levels.

Powerscaling went to shit once HoloEN was created, not that it was any good in the first place.

>>21978811
hawt

>>21982707
Pomu can say "im a double super saiyan + infinity" all she wants on her streams but she's canonically just a fairy. Until she gets some official merch with this shit or they change her bio she's only a fairy. Pretty much everyone in Niji EN gets bodied by the Holos except maybe the dragons or Ethyria being able to square up evenly with the low tier Holos like Gura or Kiara. I'm disregarding the males because I don't care about them plus they're all robots or some shit like that.

>>21982707
Now the s the sort of Autism 4chaj was built on. Good show anon, good show.

>>21996403
In that case, say goodbye to Ame and all her time travelling abilities and different Ames, because they're not on her bio either. See how her fans like it.

I don't even need to say anything else since I know hololive fans would never let this happen. If Ame gets all her shit from her streams, so does Pomu.

>>21994842
HoloJP lore was way too thin, just paragraph-length blurbs without much context.

HoloEN lore has slowly been trending the other way around. I think Myth lore is perfectly OK for fighting anime standards, but then Council was this autistic turbo chuuni 'Extreme Sharingan Madara Uchiha with 900000 Seven Deaths Darkness One Note One Piece Fruit' take where every single Council member could benchpress the sun.

NijiEN lore blurbs tend to be pretty middle of the road in terms of power level - slightly below most of Myth (with some below-par exceptions like Pomu who lore-wise is literally just a 9cm fairy), except for Vox being a demon lord and Fungus Covid's powers (when he has access to super-technology).

>>21996702
Yeah all Ame's time traveler stuff is just her headcanon but I do think I've seen bits of it referenced it a time or two in official stuff. And she does talk about it at con panels, official interviews ect, so she's trying very hard to make it a thing instead of it just being a throwaway gag for a stream or two. We'll see if she ever succeeds.

>>21996736
Vox's demon powers seem to the ability to mind control roughly 500 people and fight moderately long against regular humans with swords and spears before being killed by them. For a Demon Lord he's a bit shit.

>>21982707
>vsbattles
Taking random statements from characters as facts is more reliable power level measuring than anything on that site

>>21996403
>>21996736
>>21996845
And Haachama is just a regular highschool girl too, amirite? Yet, even the Council is scared of/worship her.

https://twitter.com/ourokronii/status/1432445614210514944
https://twitter.com/tsukumosana/status/1427558894767771652
https://i.imgur.com/0vkI988.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0l6Cxc6KV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuVuRwzzag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwogm2h7GLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1ASlsNt5Q
https://youtu.be/gMzoXP901s8?t=151
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbQDX_S7DAA

So you're telling me the Council is so weak that they are scared of "a human girl with no powers"? If you agree to this, this means every single NijiEN would body them since all the NijiEN girls have powers.

Still don't believe "lore-upgrade" is a real thing? How about hearing it from one of the HoloJP talents themselves?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lVT2lgIkiQ

>powerlevel thread goes to shit with headcanon and "proof?" retards
Powerlevels are retarded, I'll just continue to enjoy streams my man.

>>21997419
People are "scared" of Haachama cuz she eats bugs and shit and does those weird creepypasta skits. It's a meme. People are allowed to RP whatever they want but their canonical power level is what their official stuff says it is.

>>21997508
You now people can change and grow stronger right?

>>21996702
Nope. Pomu's just a fairy but Ame can still time travel. Ame worked it into her content so hard it's cannon.

>>21997508
>>21998053
Streaming is literally their main content, that's what "canon" means. Or are you telling me every single streams is filler and somehow "doesn't count"? And who decides what is "official" and "unofficial", (You)?

>>21998078
No one thinks of Pomu as anything but a fairy and everyone thinks Ame can time travel so there. There's nothing you can do about it and you are dumb.

>>21998183
>No one thinks of Pomu as anything but a fairy and everyone thinks Ame can time travel so there.
Also it doesn't matter what the fans think. If Pomu is shown to do eldritch shit on stream, then she is canonically that powerful. You can't argue against something that actually happened in-universe.

>There's nothing you can do about it and you are dumb.
I accept your concession.

>>21998554
Matsuri is god, she said so on stream. Therefore as the abrahamic God she is omnipotent omnipresent and omniscient. And so she wins everything.

>>21998643
Except proclaiming yourself as god is a common as fuck trope.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AGodAmI

And has she done anything on-stream that SHOWS she is this all-powerful omnipotent omnipresent and omniscient being? Tell me know if she did.

>>21988904
Time is not a "4th dimension" the 4th dimension is the 4th dimension, dumbass. Think about it this way; a 3 dimensional object entering into 2 dimensional space would look like a circle that expands and then shrinks as it passes through perpendicular to the 2D plane. Likewise, a 4D object moving through our 3D space would resemble a sphere expanding and then shrinking as it passes through our 3D space through a 4D plane that we can't see or visualize. Also, if time were the 4th dimension, do 2D objects just not move at all because time doesn't exist for them? Here, educate yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGguwYPC32I

>>21996845
>>21998053
Wasn't it supposed to be worked into her debut with the loli Ame pic Ina drew?

>>21996736
Ever since Omega got sidelined after Council flopped. the Council members have been less bound to their lore. Like Fauna created lore where her new mascot is the actual goddess of nature and she usurped their power.

>>21998554
That tier list is inaccurate since Millie is powerless outside of hell and vox got his ass kicked by regular samurai AND fulgur in lore.

>>22001746
Yes, that's why I named it "not really that accurate, but close enough.png", but thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies at least.

The chuuni lore Omegatranny wrote for Bae is completely overkill. Lore wise she has no match.

Mori wins because she's my oshi and I love her more than all the others!

>>22003899
She needs the love of stronger men

>>21985415
>>21996403
>>21996736
>>21998053
>Just a X
Kirby is just a cute puffball so surely he'll lose to just about everyone in the Smash roster, right?

There's no way someone like him who can only beat Dedede in a wrestling ring match at the end of the first Kirby game do better than that, right? Because obviously fictional characters can never ever get stronger. Everyone is a static mannequin with a permanently set power level.
Especially shonen protags. They just forget what they learned immediately after each fight so even if they bring the first opponent they ever faced back at the end of the series, the rematch is guaranteed to be just as exciting.

This mindset is so flawed I can't even.

>>21990445
Unironically true. Reminder that Goku vs Arale (who has been a canon character since the original Dragon Ball) actually happened in a Dragon Ball Super episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exSaoFG_7aw

>>22009948
I'm still a little sad that they never added Arale to Fighters.

Wouldn't Council just beat the shit out of everyone? Lore-wise they are metaphysical concepts with control over their domain.

>>21996950
>>22001746
I've seen quite a number of people say Vox is powerful just because he's a demon. You can tell they don't know anything about NijiEN since he canonically got BTFO by regular human samurais and Fulgur, a regular cyborg from the future (in Fulgur's 2nd stream, he revealed that his intro in his debut stream is just fiction). They're most likely the same people who think Elira and Selen are the strongest "just because" they're dragons, which make zero senses since dragons, like most physical powerhouses, would just get rekted by the stronger magical creatures.

>>21978811
No because HoloEN are chunni's

>>21997419
>>21998762
>why are god-like beings talking like they are scared of a mere human, they must be weak!!
>matsuri said she is a god but that thats just a TVTROPE OMG
jesus christ at least maintain some consistency, if your gonna cry about tv tropes its also a common trope for super powerful beings to be scared of a regular human you nijinigger

>>21978872
nah

>>22014973
It's called Reductio Ad Absurdum. Obviously I don't actually believe that council is weak, it's part of my argument to get a point across. Read the context behind the conversation, jesas!

>>22014973
>its also a common trope for super powerful beings to be scared of a regular human
Even if that's true it's irrelevant, since Haachama canonically has powers, listed in the the powerscaling anon's pic >>21982707. And Haachama isn't human either.
https://youtu.be/Q3-wS69j5eU

>>22018872
im not talking about your statement being literal, im just referring to you making 2 points that contradict each other

>>22021157
One is a supposition for argument sake, while the other is an actual observation, why are you even comparing them?