/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

すいかため

私の尻をたたいて

>>2143289
Why? What's in it for me?

>>2143356
Um, excuse me, it's (Øの)尻をたたいて

>>2143289
No

is the voice an intentional elitist filter

>>2143746
No, he(?) is just insane. He seems like he knows a lot about Japanese, however.

>>2143289
I'm trying

I'm working on it

>>2143289
No amount of words can describe my pure laziness, even though I've been watching anime for 20 years I don't know any kana

I wanna have some of ENs do collabo with *her.

i hope all you anons have your japanese ime set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1oYrmfXB1A

Should I be studying more than 20 words at a time through Anki? It feels like a small amount, but I don't want to overload and break the process.

>>2143860
Over a long period of time, the amount of cards you have to review settles to about 10x the amount of new cards you learn every day. source: some other anon said so at some point.
So you shouldn't unless you're willing to review 200 cards a day.

>>2143860
20 new words per day is already a lot. unless you want to study for literal hours every single day you should stop there or even at like 10.

>>2143928
>>2143931
わかりました。ありがとうございます!

Is the book “remembering the kanji” worth using?

>>2143965
頑張れ、アノン

>>2143931
No point studying at all, unless you're willing to study hours each day

>>2144011
complete bullshit.

>>2143855
はい

>>2143289
I'm fucking trying.

Cure Dolly LOVE

Any rrats about the cult?

>>2144239
What cult?

>>2143965
Just a month into restarting my reps. Feels so good to be able to read kana full speed.

>>2143860
To put it in to perspective, elementary school students in Japan usually only learn about ~10 kanji a week, but they have the benefit of simply attaching what they heard into reading and writing (and obviously, more time dedicated to learning it), so it's a little less complicated. As an adult, you can definitely do more work. 20 is a good pace, but don't let yourself get burned out. I did 20 cards a day on Anki and I realized where brute memorization is only going to take you so far.
>>2143989
Breaking down radicals and making your own story from the kanji to help remember them make up the bulk of RTK. It's a very good primer to get you started and is extremely helpful, but it won't really do anything for you beyond that. I highly recommend using something like Kanji Koohii in lieu of it since it provides a very robust dictionary and it's more or less partnered with RTK in a digital format and comes with SRS, etc, it's a better package deal. The most useful thing to know when learning kanji is that they are made of fixed parts (radicals) put together, and oftentimes, they'll have commonalities with other concepts. For instance, 月 being the 偏 (left radical) will always presuppose some sort of bodily organ like intestine in 腸 or chest in 胸 or arm in 腕, and so forth. Other times, it has a strong phonetic component to it like it would in Chinese. Other times, you'll have practically useless radicals like ⿕ whose only purpose is either being a flute by itself or combining with 金 to make... a lock kanji 鑰 which is already unused in favor of 鍵. The reason why Japanese is so complex is because it's essentially a whole 1000+ years of character acquisition from Chinese combined with homemade characters and some usages fall out of use while others stick around. Linguistically, however, Japanese is honestly not that hard to speak and listen to, because of how many shared sounds, meanings, etc. there are that tie a lot of concepts together into a catch-all, like 付く for example. Kanji, however, can (and will) often differentiate the same basal meaning that's spoken and understood into many different writings so as to give greater context to something that is being said that might not have clear context to someone that's reading or to give a more nuanced image. It's a close approximation of purple prose in English, if you want to use it as a comparison point.

Example: 見る. Simply puts, it means "to see / look / etc." However, you might run across 視る (to stare) or 観る (to take in / focus on something more thoroughly with your eyes - it's more active than 見る) or 診る (to medically examine) or 看る (to look after, take care of). Yet, all of those are pronounced and used in the exact same way. [みる]

The most important thing in learning any language is to first and foremost, have fun with it. If you aren't having fun, you're doing something wrong and you're not applying what you're learning in a way that's most conductive to you.

>>2143289
Never.

>>2143989
the way most people approach RTK, not really.
don't learn kanji in complete isolation with nothing but english keywords to guide you. there are better sources like henshall and kodansha which include vocabulary examples. ideally your kanji study should be based around characters you've already encountered through learned vocabulary.

https://streamable.com/3cepqa

>>2143928
This. I tried doing 50 kanji a day, and I got mogged big-time. Words are probably easier though.
>>2143989
RTK method works but it has its flaws.
>kanji keywords are sometimes used multiple times, which is a bitch for recall
>kanji keywords conflate kanji with similar but different meanings
>RTK doesn't teach you mnemonics for readings. Not a big deal but if you see a word you don't know, you'll probably want to look it up in a dictionary, which is a pain if you don't know how to type in the kanji and can't copy-paste (e.g. it's in an image or video.)
This time around I've been using kanji damage instead of RTK as it addresses the above, it works but be warned the guy is a total fucking degenerate.

>>2143289
Im not fat or white enough to learn it. Also, learn any other actually useful language

>>2143289
I will not join this cult

>>2143746
I find watching the videos sped up makes them more tolerable.

>>2143289
いいえ

>>2143289
im trying but i cant stop procrastinating

3月以上日本語を勉強していたのに、まだ多くを学ばない
>>2146211
僕も同じだよ

>>2146211
this but only procrastinating because I'm really embarassed of hearing myself trying to speak japanese

>>2143289
I am but memorizing all this kanji shit is fucking hard

>>2145678
>any other actually useful language
lel

>>2146455
You can still practice your reading and listening skills.

>>2145678
English is the only language you will ever need as long as you live in the USA, UK, Australia, etc.
>But muh Chang supremacy
The chinks are already required to learn English to enter the business world
>But muh India superpooper 2025
English is already their official language
>But muh Moored Europe
I'd rather learn a language with a clear separation between each character

>>2144666
Thanks, Satan. I get what you mean. I've only recently just started using Anki for Japanese, and after I got through each of the words, it felt like there wasn't a whole lot that I did. Based on what others have said though with study time ramping up after successive sessions, I think I'll be feeling more productive after a couple weeks.

>>2145678
the most useful language to learn is the one you wanna learn to use.

>>2147484
This and fuck anyone who says otherwise. If you want to learn Mongolian or Swahili, do it.

Even then, there are a few professional niches where you can make a killing with Japanese fluency, but they are pretty small to be fair.

>>2145678
English is already the most useful language

>>2145678
Japanese is literally more useful to me on a daily basis than my native language

>>2144666
High quality post

Dekinai

>>2145678
Based.

>can read it decently well
>however any time I try to listen to my favorite vtuber it just sounds like gibberish
I’m trying...I’m really trying

Inu was the 1st one of these I learned I will never not see the rest of this shit that way, I hate these mother fuckers

>>2154712
I only learned 犬 and 太
>14 more to go
Fuck

>>2154682
>I try to listen to my favorite vtuber it just sounds like gibberish
Maybe try and search around to find another one who is easier to listen to.
>>2154712
What's the issue? The strokes are not random. Only like 2 or 3 of those could be actual kanji.
>>2155224
It's not 太. Pay closer attention to the stroke order, well actually the stroke direction.

I'm getting filtered by grammar guides that go on 20 paragraph lectures about linguistic concepts between every couple words/particle they actually teach

>>2154682
For me it was the opposite for the longest time, I could talk and understand well but only just recently I was able to read at a decent pace, and only for kid games like dragon quest that have grade schooler level kanji.
I can probably read around 800 kanji but don't ask me to write them down, I'll only remember the shape of most when reading.

>>2157111
>by grammar guides that go on 20 paragraph lectures about linguistic concepts between every couple words/particle they actually teach
I don't think any of the popular grammar guides do this.

No thanks not gonna waste time on a low tier language

>>2154682
You've got a foothold, you just gotta press on. Cure Dolly has good videos on getting started with listening.

>>2157530
What's a high tier language?

>All these retarded weebs learning a dead language instead of the superior 中文
你永远不会学日本语

>>2143289
You will never be Japanese. You have no ancestry, you have no citizenship, you have no skills that would make Japan ever want you. You are a shut-in self-hating white man twisted by delusions of mythical Japanese superiority and exposure to Japanese media into a disgusting mockery of nature’s perfection.

All 'validation' you get from other people in this position couldn't be worse in making you believe that spending years of your life learning a globally useless language to a first-grader's level was a worthwhile use of your time, but one can't expect that an individual as pathetic as you will ever know the value of the youth you threw away in doing that.

Actual Japanese are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of linguistic evolution have allowed natives to identify frauds from mannerisms and vocabulary alone. Even if your written text of self-hatred and attention begging akin to a stray dog's somehow passes as normal (it won't), any Japanese person will immediately cut all ties when they hear the voice and accent of someone who is not only a basic Japanese speaker at best, but worth no more than garbage in skills, accomplishments, and likeability.

You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile and laugh to yourself believing that watching a content creator that you understand 20% of at best is somehow superior than watching your own kind, as you project your disgusting traits onto your entire kind. However, deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight, and you know that. You know that all you do now is have an entirely new linguistic medium in which to be ignored, and not even the exotic trait of being foreign makes up for just how uninteresting of a person you are.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a Western man is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably Caucasian.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back. Hate yourself and apologize for being white to some Japanese entity that exists only in your mind while actual Japanese people put in effort to learn English for the valid reason of it being the global language.

>>2157603
You will never understand Japanese.

>>2157625
Why would I give a shit about some language. You probably think making a thread with Japanese title filters people.

>>2157603
I like the language

>>2157551
English

>>2157603
Pigeon playing chess

>>2157603
and?

>>2157603
New pasta bait, try harder anon, one day you will replace the navy seal pasta

>>2157603
i just want to understand what the funny internet girls are telling me

>>2143402
>Øの

>>2143289
Japanese? No Japanese. If you speak Japanese you will end.

>>2155224
What about 大?

>>2159030
Obviously her lifestyle doesn’t seem funny..
>365 a year going back and forth between a nearby convenience store and her cramped apartment wearing pajamas
>no longer going to the workplace of her part time job, because she came to earn enough money by SPs. She used to think it was a success, but soon realized having no offline relationships with other people deteriorates the quality of her life and mental so rapidly
>overseas fans get overjoyed every time she shows up, raving over her in languages she can’t understand. It’s been quite long since she started feeling like she was feeding wild pigeons in a park.
>someone said her “you’re not an idol nor celebrity, but a beggar on a street asking tourists for mercy”. She couldn’t throw off that words (because she has no one around her telling her it’s ok irl), so she opens and sips another can of Strong zero today to distract herself from self hatred.

>>2159185
There is no 大 on that sheet. There is one 犬 and a bunch of fake ones.

>>2159342
I just noticed
I thought it was 3rd row 2nd column
I kneel

>>2143796
Lived in japan for probably over 2 years and still can't speak conversational level japanese. How tf has she survived there? All her "japanese friends" probably just speak shitty english to her and never bothered to improve her japanese.

>>2159371
I can see how you might confuse that with a hane (跳ね) at the end of the third stroke, but you pretty much always do hane even if you aren't doing calligraphy. For example the hook you see on the first stroke of い is a hane. If you look at 大 you will see there are no hane.

How does this work?: https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/kanawrite.html
I write it down on a piece of paper then check if I got it right but I don't know what to enter to say I got it right. Then it'll mark it wrong and will just cycle between the last 3-4 kana indefinitely.

>>2159703
You need to use an IME / keyboard that supports inputing characters by drawing them. The goal is just to input the character it asks you to.

>>2159324
KEK, I love this post. Thank you.

>>2157595
滚开

>>2159793
Is there an IME that does that on linux (using Anthy now) or should I just give up on looking now?

>>2143860
I wonder does anyone else hate using Anki for learning languages? I don't undertand this modern obsession.
I'd rather repeat useful words by constantly seeing them in context, than repeating random ones for one hour a day.

>>2159870
I would give up. At least for me directly typing the answers doesn't work. I have to copy and paste them in.

>>2157595
>>2159842
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>>2160050
ベイスド

>>2159997
>I wonder does anyone else hate using Anki for learning languages
Yes, but I do like SRS.
>I'd rather repeat useful words by constantly seeing them in context
There is a very large number of words and you will only be expose to a small fraction of them each day. It is easy to forget words that you do not encounter often. If you encounter a new word it might be a long time before you naturally encounter that word again.
>than repeating random ones for one hour a day
You are not repeating random ones. You are testing yourself on words that you are most likely to be forgetting.

>>2160130
何

>>2160143
>Yes, but I do like SRS.
I'm ok with flashcards but not with SRS.
>There is a very large number of words and you will only be expose to a small fraction of them each day.
And the same is with SRS when you have a big deck. And if you have many small ones it's not really better
> It is easy to forget words that you do not encounter often.
If you do not encounter them often, they're not important enough for you, or your language level is not high enough yet. When you can read faster you will encounter them more often
>You are testing yourself on words that you are most likely to be forgetting.
And it maybe a good thing. Maybe these words are not really that important and you should instead learn the more frequent.

>>2159997
I think core is good for gaining a foothold, and mining decks are good for remembering words you've learned recently from your reading/listening, in order to keep them in mind for the next time you see them.
To be honest, though, if I see a review card I don't recognize, with a sufficiently obscure meaning, and which I haven't seen or heard in context any time recently, I kind of just say I got it correct even though I didn't, because remembering that one card isn't vital. If it pops up in my reading/listening later, I just manually reschedule it.

>>2160205
>I'm ok with flashcards but not with SRS.
This is contradictory. SRS is just a way to sort your flashcards.
>And the same is with SRS when you have a big deck
The difference is that the words you see less often are the words that you are able to remember already. As opposed to the example I gave where the words you see less often are words that you do not yet know very well.

>>2159030
No different from a western woman.

>>2160263
>This is contradictory. SRS is just a way to sort your flashcards.
I think that SRS is a good tool to cram lots of random information.
The thing is that words are not random information. Language is a system where everything is connected.
Why don't we forget words of our native language? Because we constantly see them in real life. The language already has a built-in SRS, better than you can recreate by yourself.
And if it overwhelms you, we have textbooks with limited vocabulary specifially for this case.
So the idea of adding external SRS seems artificial to me. I don't want to repeat some words just because the computer believes I've forgotten them.

>>2157603
this copypasta is interesting because it misses so much of the psychology of the average white guy japanese learner. no one who has fantasies of going to japan and being a charisma man who fucks cute asian chicks wants to literally be japanese, just the opposite really. this is pasta aimed at like pixyteri.

>>2143289
の

>>2160387
>The thing is that words are not random information. Language is a system where everything is connected.
I already know English which provides a connected scaffolding that I can bootstrap Japanese off of. I can learn random common words and just attach them to this scaffolding. While it might not be a perfect match I can work on removing the scaffolding later.
>The language already has a built-in SRS, better than you can recreate by yourself.
The difference is that I already have deep knowledge of my native language. Just maintaining it is a lot less work than trying to add thousands and thousands of kanji and vocabulary to what I know.
>And if it overwhelms you, we have textbooks with limited vocabulary specifially for this case.
The limited vocabulary is still a large number of words. I can't just take in hundreds of new words and remember them all. An SRS system gives you a framework to handle learning a lot of new information.

>>2160726
Because it’s adapted from a trannypasta

>>2160834
ok yeah that makes sense

>>2143289
no

>>2160050
Retard, this is traditional chinese, it doesn't work on mainland chinese people, which is your target audience. They can't read traditional chinese.

>>2160050
Retard, that is traditional chinese, it doesn't work on mainland chinese people, which is your target audience.

>>2143289
Guide :
https://translate.google.com/
www.duolingo.com

>>2163685

>>2157603
Nani the fuck did you just fucking iimasu about watashi, you chiisai bitch desuka? Watashi’ll have anata know that watashi graduated top of my class in Nihongo 3, and watashi’ve been involved in iroirona Nihongo tutoring sessions, and watashi have over sanbyaku perfect test scores. Watashi am trained in kanji, and watashi is the top letter writer in all of southern California. Anata are nothing to watashi but just another weaboo. Watashi will korosu anata the fuck out with vocabulary the likes of which has never been mimasu’d before on this continent, mark watashino fucking words. Anata thinks anata can get away with hanashimasing that kuso to watashi over the intaaneto? Omou again, fucker. As we hanashimasu, watashi am contacting watashino secret netto of otakus across the USA, and anatano IP is being traced right now so you better junbishimasu for the ame, ujimushi. The ame that korosu’s the pathetic chiisai thing anata calls anatano life. You’re fucking shinimashita’d, akachan.

>>2145678
>Learning a language based on usefulness instead of enjoyment
top kek, have fun not learning anything

>>2144666
Based.

new video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmU2l0pM2gk

>>2157603
You will never be Anglo

>>2144666
Based

>>2143289
>Cure Dolly
nah i'm not watching a literal cult leader's videos

>>2159997
>>2160256
I think your main problem is treating Anki as a complete learning source rather than a supplement. A lot of it relies on you being honest (i.e. not saying you know/don't know a card if you don't) and doing your own due diligence (additional study afterwards, reading it in context, etc.) SRS is proven to be an effective tool in helping people learn, especially with regards to language, so it's not just a "modern obsession". If it doesn't work for you, it's less a flaw of the technique and more you needing to change how you approach it. Nobody can learn language by one method alone anyway.

>>2166111
spanking lesbians is the true key to japanese fluency.

>>2170681
You need to spank them harder anon

>>2166111
>literal cult leader
Quick rundown?

>>2145678
Yeah let me just learn some useless European language when like half the people speak English anyway

>>2145678
The only language that is "useful" is English.

Have you done your spanking cult reps today, anon?

>>2160790
イェス

>>2162345
Lol, of course they can, they are not so stupid

>>2167316
I have an university degree, which included learning several languages and we never used it. It hadn't prevented me and others to be successful.
So, I conlude that obcession with SRS is limited to young tech people, who try to apply mechanical approach to learning languages.

>>2184035
My main problem is and always will be vocabulary. SRS lets me review vocabulary I don't use every single day, which is good because otherwise I'd retain a tenth of my current knowledge. So my question is, how did you retain it? Surely you can't re-read every word you've learned every day.

>>2186068
I see acquiring vocabulary as a natural gradual process.
Of course I lose some learned words, but I don't worry too much about it.
If the word is really important I'm sure I'll see it again and again soon.
If you use the language on a regular basis, your vocabulary should keep improving, not the other way.
Now, if we say, I had read some physics textbook in my target language and didn't touch it for a year, limiting myself to everyday conversations, I could indeed forget some science terms.
But again, I don't think it's something really bad. I must have learned many other useful words instead, and physics could just be not so important for me anymore. And if I still want to remember these words, I can always reread the book, or even take another one on the same subject. It will still be easier compared to the first time.
So I usually just bookmark and cram new words once and then rely on the "natural" way. Maybe sometimes I can reread the list, however as I said rereading the full text works better for me.
I'm not compeletely against SRS, if you feel it works for you that's great. I've tried it several times and haven't found it did much for me. I see that it can be an useful addition if you use it when waiting in line. But at home I prefer to do something more meaningful.
I always feel surprised that many people prefer to spend an hour making 500 cards review instead of doing something more interesting and engaging with their target language. After all learning language is like a long-distance running and you should keep your motivation to succeed.

>>2186068
And when do you plan to stop using SRS anyway?
If you keep learning language you'll know more and more words. Soon your desk will consist of >10000 cards and your daily reviews will become devastating.
We sure agree that natives don't rely on it, so maybe advanced learners shouldn't too.
And what's the actual difference between advanced and beginner learner?
Beginner learners often use textbooks and readers with limited vocabulary, and use the same limited vocabulary when talking in groups or with a teacher.
So, if we would stop using SRS at some point, we may as well don't use it from the start.

>>2188261
>Soon your desk will consist of >10000 cards and your daily reviews will become devastating.
I've only seen one guy with over 10k words in Anki and he had a very low daily review number, like below 50. If I remember correctly it was because the vast majority of those cards were mature cards that he got right everytime, so he reviewed them once every several months.

Not to say this represents the average experience, I just wanted to share something I've seen and found interesting.

>>2187730
>>2188261
I feel like you're pretty much on the mark, but after a while SRS becomes sort of a comfort thing. Just by doing it every day you have a sense of progression. Recently it's becoming a real slog to get through my mining deck, usually well over one hour, but it's hard to drop something I've been doing for years at this point.

>>2188893
Well, my experience was different.
I feel that SRS works ok when you have few cards and gradually worse when you have many of them. On some point you can became overwhelmed with daily reviews and has to start from the scratch going more slowly.
Prediction algorithm did not work good for me either.
In real life some words are remembered easily and some are much harder. Sometimes, I keep reviewing the same card again and again, and it still didn't stick.

Is being able to watch JP hololive worth the amount of effort it takes to learn an entire new language?

I just feel more comfortable with Anki, it works for me, I've tried the "just read" method and while I won't deny that it can work, I personally feel much more comfortable with Anki, as soon as I started using it I saw a considerable improvement in my retention.

>>2143289
no

>>2188261
>Soon your desk will consist of >10000 cards
If you reach 10000 cards "soon" you're obviously doing something wrong, at a reasonable rate of, say, 10 new cards a day, reaching 10k cards would take one thousand days, which is a considerable amount of time.

I think people who do like 50-100 new cards a day are just asking to get burned out.

>>2189421
most of us learning japanese have more than 1 hobby involving weebshit.

>>2189317
I see.
It adds gamification to learning process and people like it. I also agree that having some way to measure your progress is important.
I don't think it's bad if only you don't neglect other language activities.
I just think that this method is overrated like it's something mandatory and it's not that way.

>>2189685
"Soon" was an overstatement of course.
However, it's true that advanced learners should generally review more words.
And they kinda do. Fluent speakers use language so often, so they "review" lots of words in a day. And if you rely primarly on SRS you will have to do the same.

the whole point of SRS is that you do like 2 times more time in immersion/whatever along with the SRS

>>2189990
I personally just don't understand how people can even reach the point where they're having several hours long sessions in Anki. I've been using it for a long time and I basically never spend more than an hour on it at most.

>>2187730
Can I ask your proficiency in Japanese? I find it highly unlikely you're any good without using an SRS. You need 5000+ words to be comfortable (and this is a fairly low estimate of "comfortable"), and that's basically impossible to pick up as an adult just from immersion while also living a life in your non-target language.

>>2188261
The whole point of SPACED repetition is that having 10k cards doesn't mean you're going to be bogged down in reviews.

>So, if we would stop using SRS at some point, we may as well don't use it from the start.
That's just retarded. Beginners and intermediate learners obviously need different resources than someone who's expert level

Stop making excuses and just do your reps.

>>2190531
I have passed N1 several years ago.

>>2190531
Also that's exactly the mindset I'm fighing with.
Do you realize that SRS is quite a recent invention?
How do you think people learned languages before? Do you believe they were worse it it?

>>2188261
>And when do you plan to stop using SRS anyway?
Not him but never, atleast not anytime in the foreseeable future.

>>2190132
Because learning kanji is easy enough to trick you into thinking 100 kanji a day is maintainable (spoiler alert, in the end you'll be doing 1,000 reviews a day, assuming flawless retention.)
t. got tricked into learning 100 kanji a day

I've been doing core2k+rrtk for about a month now and I can finally feel myself breaking out of the beginner realm. However, immersion still absolutely destroys me and I'm lucky if I understand 15 percent of what I'm hearing/reading. Am I gonna make it bros?

>>2190783
I'm pretty sure flashcards are as old as paper and the math behind SRS over 1000s of words was too tedious to use without computers. So the beginning part of learning a language was slower and the amount of immersion required to retain it was higher. Though after a certain point you're just reading native material and looking up words you don't know, regardless of how you got to that point.

>>2191297
15% is pretty good

>>2191585
That's right.
Except you can read adapted material with limited vocabulary from the start.

>>2191297
That's already better than 90% of tards that try to learn Japanese you're gonna make it anon.

>>2191297
you will make it if you keep immersing

>>2188261
>Beginner learners often use textbooks and readers with limited vocabulary, and use the same limited vocabulary when talking in groups or with a teacher.
>So, if we would stop using SRS at some point, we may as well don't use it from the start.
Are you implying that those beginner learners will be using textbooks and readers with limited vocabulary for the rest of their lives? No, obviously not. They'll stop using those at some point too. In that case, we may as well don't use them from the start, right?
That applies to literally any study method. Once you've sufficiently learned the material, you stop using it. "You won't use it forever so you shouldn't use it at all" is a retarded argument.

>>2192324
No, it's a different thing.
Beginners use the same method as advanced learners. Language classes are not drastically different between first or fifth year.
Yes, their textbooks and readers became gradually harder, but nothing really changes.
Some books could be hard even for natives, and they also continue to increase their vocabulary for the whole life.
Acquiring language is a naturally continious process.

>>2191297
ygmi. Stay consistent.

>>2143289
>watch stream
>hear chuuba say 'kimo i' and 'shumi' when playing a game where a bunch of dolls are strung up
>think to myself 'shumi probably means hobby'
>google it
>i'm right
that's all i do

It's dekinai. You will keshite learn nihongo.

>>2144666
Nekkos are the best posters on /vt/

>>2143289
Is that Yandere Dev?

>>2143289
Absolutely not

>>2145678
Like Spanish if you're from bugerland.

>>2215573
the model cure dolly uses is freeware. did someone seriously make another model based on it?

>>2215695
Any spics worth talking to already speak English

>>2217934
but spics can never speak english...

Pro tip: Cure Dolly’s voice sounds just bearable enough at 1.25 speed

>>2217855
I mean it is Yandere Dev

>>2204911
消して?

How do you deal with burnout? This is my third attempt at learning Japanese and I can only understand like 0.1% of what people are saying, if even. I feel like I'm ngmi.

>>2218782
Then how am I speaking to you, spicanon?

>>2220574
Get on my level. 2x speed or nothing

>>2143289
her voice is shit


could someone write down everything she says? i will not give myself suicidal tendencies for a literally who

i feel like legally defending myself in a self defense situation after watching this fucking shit

>>2224317
>How do you deal with burnout?
Slow down your pace? It sounds to me like your problem is more about being unsatisfied with lack of progress though, to which I'd recommend reading shit tons of native material. It's the most efficient way to get better at parsing sentences.

>>2223257
No, he meant 決して .

>>2143289
how much can I learn from her videos?
do I need anything else other than anki cards after this?

>>2226422
her videos are good but they don't have to be your only source (she also hasn't covered everything there is to cover yet). tae kim is good, misa on youtube is good, there's probably others out there. if someone's explanation isn't doing it for you, look for another source
other than that, start your mining deck, start immersing early

>>2226422
The Dictionary of Japanese Grammar was a must have for me. It has explanations for pretty much every possible construction you might come across that is usually hard to look up anywhere else. Highly recommended. Also, read a lot, it's several times more efficient than listening.

>>2226422
as the other anon said, the DoJG is a very good resource for grammar. I would also like to add on imabi for certain things you can't find in the DoJG. It's a guide made by a linguist, so it's autistically accurate to the way grammar is taught in Japan. It was the only grammar resource I found that had the correct definition (or rather just a definition that made sense) of ~っぽい after a plain form verb.

>>2227586
>>2228647
ok but which dictionary is this (name sounds too generic)? the one by seiichi makino?

>>2229169
Yes, the one that's divided into 3 volumes. You can probably find a link for it on the daily Japanese thread in /jp/.

Is wanikani worth the time?

>>2229672
As your sole learning resource? No. But being able to read something is always better than nothing.

>>2229672
It's not a waste of time. Probably not the most efficient use of your time either.

>>2229672
Personally I found it to be worth the time. After trying anki and burning out a couple times I found wanikani to be much more enjoyable and I've been able to stick with it for several months. Like >>2229711 said it is not enough to learn Japanese. Wanikani is intended to teach you how to read kanji. You will need to complement it with other stuff to learn vocabulary and grammar.

>>2229711
>>2229869
>>2229968
I think I’ll stick with it for now and continue studying grammar. It isn’t overwhelming for me, unlike when I tried to jump straight into Anki.

>>2230481
Best of luck to you, anon! I'm doing grammar studies, wanikani and anki. We're all going to make it

>>2143289
No matter how much you faggots want to project your distaste for EOPs, no v-tuber actually "hates" EOPs. At worst they are neutral and just prefer to be Japanese only, but that ALWAYS changes when an influx of kaigainiki money flows in. I know you faggots are seething that your work wasted on learning Japanese is going to become very irrelevant very quickly, but at least be more tactful in your death throes.

>>2230759
Maybe I just want to understand what my oishi is saying you dumb faggot.

https://streamable.com/3goh2f

>>2143289
I already watched every Namasensei video YOU BITCH

>>2230759
Imagine seething this hard

>>2230759
haven't some JP chuubas ended their channel and created another one because their chat had too many eops that drowned out the jp?

>>2230759
ogey

>>2230759
I don't give a fuck about what vtubers think about EOPs, I just find watching content creators you don't understand incredibly fucking stupid

>>2239554
even if you don't understand the language, as long as there's love it's ok

>>2233466
Cope, anon, you know this to be true.

>>2231131
very based

>>2230759
anon, I was already studying nip just to understand what fictional anime girls were saying. You really think simply understanding real anime girls is not enough motivation? No matter how much they shift their eyes to the western market they'll still be talking primarily in Japanese, that's more than enough reason to learn it. If you watch vtubers worrying about whether they "like" you or not, you're the one who needs to rethink your motivations. Sounds to me like you just hate yourself for being an EOP.

>>2143289
不,我不想

>>2160050
我学习汉语所以可以我去台湾 :)

>>2230759
Guaranteed (you)s

>>2243438
It's because its true and the other anons have been called out and now trying to cope.

>>2233589
yes several have warned other vtubers chasing the eop train

>>2243469
says the one who came up with such obvious shitty cope >>2239722

>>2224317
stop quitting and you might make some actual progress

>>2229672
no, it's literally a djt meme, don't fall for it

>>2230759
japanese vtubers literally don't think of gaijin as humans, we're just wacky aliens that shit up their chat to them

>>2159342
>and a bunch of fake ones.
those are chinese (traditional)

>>2173965
She referred to traditional ways to learn Japanese as gatekeepers and members of a cult

>>2224869
All her videos have subs, just turn them on and mute the video

>>2248012
As much as I like her grammar explanation's, Cure Dolly's meta statements on japanese learning seem incredibly biased.

>>2248281
Take into account that every teacher of something in the internet is also a shill and they always say their method is the best.

>>2246838
It works as advertised for me. If you have any arguments beyond it being a meme then share them.
>>2248012
No, it's referring to her roommate.
>>2248281
>meta statements on japanese learning seem incredibly biased.
Yeah, I don't like here "textbooks bad >:(", philosophy. So what if when we say transitive we really mean 他動詞. It's really not that big of deal that she makes it out to be. Similarly she doesn't seem to like the made up conjugations that were made to make learning easier. Who cares if te form or causative form are not really understood like how they are in Japan. Sure learning the Japanese way may be useful for consuming native grammar resources, but you'll be able to speak / understand Japanese just as fine regardless of learning the "fake" way.

>>2254384
The whole 他動詞・自動詞 thing is a bad example, because they're essentially the same concept as their western counterpart. For everything else though, I agree with her, because her point is that it actually impedes learning the language. Understanding the underlying logic of the grammar gives you the keys to simplify the language in your mind. Spending some time going through concepts you've already seen is hardly a downside.

>>2157603
Personally I'm not a weeb and I actually don't care at all about japan.

I'm only learning japanese to play mgqp part 3 when it come out.

>>2254833
>is that it actually impedes learning the language
I do not fundamentally think it does. I think bad resources in general impedes learning. Just attaching a label when introducing an auxiliary verb is not going to suddenly confuse people.

Take for example the video "Lesson 10: "Japanese conjugation" myth busted! Also, potential verb form secret unlocked"
https://youtu.be/qcOhHmU0znI
There isn't much of a difference between her saying to take 仮定形 and attach れる compared to the conjugation approach which typically says to replace final u with e and add れる.
After going over how ける is used with the three verb groups she then tries to analyze 本が読める.
>本が読める and the standard text[books] usually translate this as "I can read the book."
Which is a perfectly fine translation as Japanese often omits the topic. She says that the correct way to translate it would be to say that "the book is readable." Her translation of "In relation to me, the book is readable" and the translation of "I can read the book" mean the same thing in English. The main difference is the difference between using は or が on yourself. I myself wouldn't call the difference between は and が as being a "potential verb secret."

>>2257795
based

>>2143289
>spend half the video talking about how perfect your method is and how shit textbooks are
>most of your method is derived from a textbook
>present it in a fucking impossible to understand voice modifier and shit, distracting animation

i don't understand why anyone bothers with these videos

>>2260428
What she's doing is stressing the literal meaning of the words in Japanese (specifically the fact that it is the book which is the actor, not you), promoting a more native understanding of the grammar than the slightly askew one that you get from learning from school textbooks. I know I appreciate this more literal mode of understanding Japanese, even if she does get rather autistic about it at some parts (stressing how the book "does readable", not "is readable" I think her reason for this is that "is readable" would imply an adjective or copula, not a verb).
>Her translation of "In relation to me, the book is readable" and the translation of "I can read the book" mean the same thing in English.
The point is that "I can read the book" is not the precise, exact meaning of 本が読める. You'll want to know the precise meanings of things if you want to discard eternally translating to and from English in your head.

>>2248012
The traditional ways of learning Japanese are utter, absolute dogshit

>>2264683
>specifically the fact that it is the book which is the actor, not you
The regular way teaches that you can use either が or を for the object. When you use が of course that object is going to be the subject / actor from a grammar perspective. There is nothing surprising in that. It's like math. Ideas build on top of other ideas and you are already expected to understand how the lower level stuff works.
>even if she does get rather autistic about it at some parts (stressing how the book "does readable", not "is readable" I think her reason for this is that "is readable" would imply an adjective or copula, not a verb).
The issue here is trying to translate literally into English which is not really possible. I personally think it's better to have a proper translation and then just explain how the sentence works without trying to formulate that explanation into English sentence in the end.
>The point is that "I can read the book" is not the precise, exact meaning of 本が読める
They are equivalent though. They communicate the same underlying idea. Cure Dolly's video might even mislead you to think that 本が読める and 本を読める have a different meaning when actually they are equivalent.
>You'll want to know the precise meanings of things if you want to discard eternally translating to and from English in your head.
I agree and I believe that the "textbook Japanese" is able to give you a precise enough meaning. I do not think doing silly literal English translations help that much. It reminds me more of when you have a personal metaphor that helps you understand a concept and you try to explain it to someone else. It makes sense to you, but it's hard to explain and the other person might not understand it.

>>2264683
It isn't the literal meaning of 本が読める but if you were to see that sentence in the wild in actual use, the correct translation would be "I can read the book".

>>2265759
>When you use が of course that object is going to be the subject / actor from a grammar perspective
An object is not a subject.
You are speaking nonsense in an effort to defend the nonsense that is taught in the standard way.
>I personally think it's better to have a proper translation and then just explain how the sentence works without trying to formulate that explanation into English sentence in the end.
Cure Dolly's methods are for the sake of your own comprehension of what is being said, not for producing English translations. Of course 本が読める cannot be localized to "Book does readable", because that's not standard English.
>>2265923
Yes, that is of course the way it is said in English. Very different from how it is said in Japanese.

>>2143795
you can learn to pronounce kana in like 2 weeks if you halfass it

Becoming the most fluent speaker in the world wouldn't make your oshi talk to you.

>>2266106
Yup, you don't have to be that fluent to get your oshi's attention and receive the good ol' すごい日本語上手ですね!

>>2159410
she's a woman

>>2266106
She talks to you every stream, but she does it in Japanese so you don't understand.

>>2143766
It's actually an old woman I think.

>>2265999
>An object is not a subject.
Okay technically yes. What I was trying to say is that you can make what would normally be the direct object be the subject.
本を読む: I will read the book
本が読む: The book will read (nonsense)
本を読める: I can read the book
本が読める: I can read the book

>>2231131
Where do I skip to if I already know the kana?

>>2267265
not sure but it might be worth checking out his grammar lessons in between the kana episodes

hows the cult going?

>>2223257
>>2226153
for beginners wondering why do we need kanji

>>2143289
I almost got completely filtered by Cure Dolly’s voice for the first few videos, but now I’m starting to think she’s cute...

>>2265759
>When you use が of course that object is going to be the subject / actor from a grammar perspective
I'm not sure that's how linguistics works
you can't be both the object and the subject at the same time

>>2266797
>What I was trying to say is that you can make what would normally be the direct object be the subject.
>normally
You mean, in English.
It's not some alternate, optional way of decorating the same sentence. It is a different sentence altogether.
>本を読める
>本が読める
Both of these convey the same sentiment, but they mean separate things. As it so happens, "I can read the book" and "To me, the book is readable" also convey the same general sentiment while meaning slightly separate things.

Ultimately, you're discussing the interpretation of Japanese into English, while Cure Dolly is promoting the understanding of Japanese as Japanese.

where the fuck does a guy even go next after learning the kana?

>>2144666
Top tier post. Can totally agree on the part where you have to string a story for yourself to learn new kanji (or vocabulary), as that's what my textbooks were like when I learnt Chinese back when I was 7.
We would have a simple paragraph, and then have a list of the new words that appeared in the paragraph, and then we would learn the pronunciation, stroke order and form a sentence or two. Once you put words into context, things get easier.

>>2280134

>>2276204
read >>2266797 I am talking about how you can change the direct object into the subject without changing the meaning. Not that it can be both at the same time.
>>2279294
>You mean, in English.
No, I mean in Japanese.
>Both of these convey the same sentiment
I am not sure if they do. From a grammatical perspective they mean the same thing, but that doesn't mean that you can just use either. Since a book is an inanimate object 本が読める is going to be more awkward. Since I am not a native speaker I'm not sure how exactly Japanese people would feel from that statement even if it is technically grammatically correct.
"私は本が読める": 10 results on google
"私は本を読める": 50,100 results on google
>while meaning slightly separate things
They mean the same thing. Stop deluding yourself. You can read something If and only if it is readable to you.
>Ultimately, you're discussing the interpretation of Japanese into English, while Cure Dolly is promoting the understanding of Japanese as Japanese.
If anything Cure Dolly is discussing the interpretation of Japanese into English by trying to use her weird broken literal translations. I am saying that those weird translations are unnecessary and it's possible to break down a sentence without it.

>>2285618
>I am not sure if they do [convey the same sentiment]
>They mean the same thing
>they don't convey the same sentiment
>but they mean the same thing
Fucking semantics.
I'm not going to waste any more time talking in circles like this, I mean Christ

>>2143855
I couldn't very well be shitting up obscure vtuber chats without this could I?

>>2143855
もちろん

>>2143289
I am you kinky old hag.
Cracks me up how much butthurt some anons learning japanese causes in the people with no willpower

>>2159030
based

>>2157625
You will die a virgin.

>>2285618
They only mean the same in english
Take out the 私は and see how this changes it
本が読める= The book is readable, the subject is the book so there's no implied "I"
本を読める= OO reads/can read the book, with no visible ga the subject is implied

Anyone have a suggested learning method?

I've been using some audio lessons, but they start picking up the speed and I start to feel lost. Pimseluer I think is the one i tried, its good but it starts moving fast before I feel I have much vocabulary to work with. I can pick up a word here and there in a stream and the general idea of a sentence sometimes but holy damn I feel slow.

>>2316179
Sound like you need to do your reps. Reading is also good.

Is it true she's a crazy indian women who has voicepacks of religious nature?

>>2317232
There's more narratives and counternarratives than facts about her

For fuck's sake my dudes the most important thing you can do to learn japanese is to READ.
READ NIGGA, READ.
Read something you enjoy, immerse yourself into learning, it's gonna fuck you in the asshole raw when you get into it but it's literally the best way to go about learning.
If you're a third of the way through Core 6k and you haven't started trying to read shit you're doing it wrong. Learn 1000 words from an Anki Deck and then READ.

Does anyone know a place I can download raw light novels in epub or mobi? Not PDF or scanned pictures.

>>2320308
Animebytes.
Depends on the novel and release of course, some stuff has never been turned into other formats, just raw scans.

>>2317593
https://youtu.be/dxlMFsw1OfY

>>2320308
https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/library/shousetu.html

the insanity of kanji is making me appreciate the latin alphabet so much more
I'm still going to learn this shit but fucking hell, how many more decades can a language like this last when it gets mogged so fucking hard by european languages?

>>2143989
Seems like an excellent way to learn to write, and quickly, but you should probably learn how to read first. You do that by reading.

>>2322520
It's pretty awesome once you get deep into it imo, makes reading japanese incredibly easy and quick since it begins helping you past a certain point.
With how japanese is phonetically, I really don't see it working in anything but the current logogram plus syllabaries system.
Pure logogram for the langauge is and was unwieldy as fuck (Manyogana); nips figured out early on that Okurigana was a necessity. Pure syllabary with just kana on the other hand is incredibly hard to parse, and pure romaji even harder, even with spaces.
I don't know about whether or not it would work as an Abugida, but the one hybrid abugida I do know in Hangul also has its' own set of problems and causes alot of unneeded complications with reading modern Korean despite how simple and intuitive the system is.

>>2317232
shes not indian but british with a voice changer, and her religion is some sort of mother god, extremly weird aum shinrinkyo like

>>2338476
>but british with a voice changer
Is it really a voice changer? To me I feel like it might just be slowed down by a certain percentage.

>>2143289
how do you read kanji anyway? it looks so small in the screen and they look really the same on each other

>>2257795
chad

If you learn Japanese you will stop liking Hololive.

>>2338853
The same way you read the alphabet. In the end it is just pattern recognition and what kanji would be likely based off context. For example when you read 末 vs 未 you will want to figure it out by context rather than seeing which of the lines is longer than the other.

んじゃDuolingoで学びます

I've studied Japanese, but I don't think I'll ever get out of the phase of being able to understand parts of sentences that are being spoken if I concentrate. Following an entire spoken conversation is just too much for me.

>>2338941
Wrong

>>2338941
no you'll just like them for legitimate reasons instead of "haha cute girl makes cute noises"

Kanji appears really tiny on my screen and it makes it hard for me to recognize anything.
What can I do?

>>2340296
1. Zoom in, 2. Read more

>>2339350
習うより慣れよ
Just keep reading and listening while looking up shit you don't understand and you literally can't not make it. It's just a matter of time. Of course, if you just listen to people talking while lamenting that you can't understand anything you obviously won't make any progress, it's the constant effort of trying to pick up as much information as possible that will get you there.

>>2143855
The only good thing Google Translate has is the Kanji recognition. The AI is very good recognizing Kanji from bad drawn scribbles. Maybe that was one of the uses of that drawing page all vtubers did back in the day.

>>2343254
google translate has kanji recognition?

>>2143289
yabai
sugoi
baka
chotto
mite
nani

I think I know enough to get what's going on in a stream.

>>2349695
Yes you can write in Japanese and the AI will translate your writing into formatted text

>>2162368
using traditional probably just makes the mainlanders seethe even more

How is this thread still up

>>2351195
this is the "do it for her" thread so everyone here is persistent

>>2349695
really good kanji recognition. it's the fastest way to look up kanji you don't recognize

How to pronouce the japanese "R" ? I can't reproduce the sound and it's driving me crazy.

>>2357736
I just say L.

It doesn't sound native, but no one will give a shit.

>>2357736
It's a mix between d and l.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2wzUuGm7yw

>>2357736
it's a sound between the english r/l, tap the tip of your tongue at pic related when doing it.

Fuck it, may as well ask:
Why is ga/wa not used sometimes?
Example:
Mama, suki da!
Now I understand the whole concept of wa, i think, so I understand why I don't need to put 'Watashi wa' or 'mama wa' and I also get why the subject ISN'T me, rather instead I am the thing mom is lovable for. It's in refrence to the thing I mark with wa or which it is made obvious is the topic (mama addresses one own mother).

But I don't get why Mama isn't marked by ga.
The only other language I've learned is latin, and there is no inconsistency there. Subjects always end with a nominative ending. So this upsets my brains.

>>2361590
I've seen this in other simple sentences, too.
Is it a thing of convenience? That the context is so obvious, since you're addressing them, that it doesn't get marked?
Where is the line here? When do I start using ga to mark subjects? I understand not using ga when the topic is the subject, but I do not understand not using ga when the subject isn't the topic too.

>>2361590
>Why is ga/wa not used sometimes?
Because people are lazy when speaking casually.

>>2362095
So my brain's autism is technically correct but realistically wrong? As stated I've only ever learned Latin before so my understanding of language is somewhat perfectionist and non conversational, focused on perfect grammar.

Might be pushing it a bit but could you give an example in the gray area where it'd start looking bad not to mark the topic?

>>2362210
you probably shouldn't worry about it until you are comfortable enough with the language that you'll simply just know if that's the case. in the meantime, just try to use correct grammar as much as you can

what do I use for grammar? dolly?

>>2363313
tae kim, dolly, misa, dictionary of japanese grammar, imabi

>>2363313
to be more precise, i suggest reading tae kim's basic to advanced grammar, since it's fast. then watch dolly's videos on tae kim to get her perspective. you should already be listening to/reading native material in the meantime. whenever you find a structure you don't understand, refer to one of the sources here >>2363980 or any other that you trust

>>2363313
literally anything else

>>2257795
holy based

>>2257795
im learning japanese because they killed my grand uncle fresh outta college with a cowardly machine gun nest on guadalcanal
now i will dominate their women and live a happy life raising happa kids who will dominate japan too

>>2143356
>>2143289
Anyone else found that her model look so beautiful and sexy, its really uncanny feeling

>>2257795
>>2367415
You guys are too based for this basket weaving forum.

>>2224317
Don't stop, if you stop, you lose.

>>2230900
>Orange woman is based
WTF, I love Coco now.

>>2338853
Context of conversation, harder to just barge in raw but makes it easier to follow the flow of information, you can basically "read the room".

>>2357736
Me too, for a french like me it's totally unintuitive

>>2144666
>making your own story
This is god advice not just for learning a language, but anything.
Making nonsensical stories with collections of seemingly unrelated words not only improves your memory retention and working memory, but also imagination. Do it.
Example, take the words "Alligator, hat, sunglasses, limo, casino, martini, swimming pool, sun lounger" and make a story of it in your head, in detail. Do it over and over. You'll remember it for months if you do it properly. This is a small example, but you can do the same with entire speeches, lines for acting, etc.
If you keep doing that with your learning material, you'll never forget it. You are building up on your basic grammars by filling in the missing words with foundations which makes links to them, the more synapses you have linked, the better the retention.
Constant use is what keeps it around, if not the synapses are terminated to save resources.
Don't listen to cunts that tell you it is harder to learn as an adult because you don't make new cells or synapses, neurogenesis has been detected in people over 100. It never stops. Brain pruning is only pruning, not incapacitation of the process in general. It's an optimization process only.
You being an adult allows you to fill in the gaps with abstract constructs for not having the massive amount of synapses we usually have when we are kids. We understand these abstractions a lot better as adults whereas when we are kids, we fall back on brute force observation over years and years to get those fairly basic rules down. Some people don't even get them when adults!

>>2361590
Japanese is pro-drop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-drop_language
This extends to several other parts of the language too.
Short-circuiting sentences by dropping parts that are heavily context related is common in quite a few languages in general, even English.
Going on from your example, just "love you." Who? Who do you love? Person you were speaking to. Blurting it out at random, or reading a transcript of it, would seem nonsensical.
Learning all the colloquial shit is one of the hardest parts of a language behind word-play.

>>2357736
Personally I think the tt sound in butter, battle or kettle is the closest thing in the English language. Unless you're British.