/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>17335931
Damn it, I didn't want for the thread to die, but I forgot the topic: /vtwbg/ - VTuber Worldbuilding General

you fucked it up m8
thanks for making a thread

/nene/ lore so far:
Flag >>17152775
>>17228022

Based on the previous thread, semi general consensus is to create a large island in this area for /∞/ along with a smaller one off shore to be used as a penal colony. The island would have all 4 seasons as well to settle the debate on temperate and cold climate.

Also throw out all the /∞/ lore, that's got to be redone from scratch since it's just monkey's with typewriters and egos at the moment.

>>17336128
I'm the one who made that flag, if anyone wants to help or redesign it please feel free. I feel that it's too simple and that it doesn't capture the spirit of our general just yet

>>17336260
The Five Principles of Good flag design:

1. Keep It Simple. The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.
2. Use Meaningful Symbolism. The flag's images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes.
3. Use 2 or 3 Basic Colors. Limit the number of colors on the flag to three which contrast well and come from the standard color set.
4. No Lettering or Seals. Never use writing of any kind or an organization's seal.
5. Be Distinctive or Be Related. Avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections.
https://nava.org/good-flag-bad-flag

>>17336363
NTA, but I think that the bear is simplistic enough to stay. Kind of reminds me of ye good ol' coat of arms rather than a modern flag, which is okay.
It just needs the /NENE/ text removed and it'll be great.

>>17336363
>>17336260
But do keep in mind a flag doesnt have to be perfect. Soulful flags love

>>17336363
Suck it, nerd!

>>17336516
Soulful

>>17336363
/meat/'s flag scare me

I have nothing to contribute but just assume that the Robosa live on one of the ice caps in the corner of the map and pray that we don't get murdered

>>17336212
Makes sense to me. I’ll leave the lore to someone less retarded than I after realising how dumb my ideas were last thread. Clock dictatorship which is highly xenophobic (but accepting of certain refugees) is about as far as I’ll go.

>>17336760
>"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I
> craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine.

>Your kind cling to your flesh, as if it will not decay and fail you.
>One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you.
>But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal…

>...even in death I serve Roboco."

>>17336458
>Coat of Arms
Watch this if you have time, he actually gets into that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4

>>17336212
our sincerest apologies for the kronie who broke containment last thread, he has been taken out back and humanely dealt with

>>17335931
KFP lore and flag >>17178564

>>17336458
Alright, I removed the /nene/ beneath since it did look kind of out of place.

>>17336759
jesas, it's like a cannibalistic islamic state

>>17335931
/yeah/ lore
>>17178895

>>17337186
>he has been taken out back and humanely dealt with
Kromies act like American police?

>>17337654
Thats just the aztecs
>raids and pillages your town and perform ritualistic sacrifice and cannibalism in the name of religion

When you visit /infinity/

Are there any other split-gens as crazy as the Kronies?

>>17345878
as far as I know, no

>>17345878
there are some crazy threads that aren't splits like nasfaq, but not split-gens can outdo kronies as far as i can tell

>>17336759
> I stalk the shores, axe in hand; I have no need for rations, for my sustenance comes to me.
> I pillage, but I do not soil my food; what use is a dirtied carcass but to attract flies.
>I feast forever, for the heavens bless me with endless bounties.

>>17345878
/ggg/ but it's bad in other ways, instead of homegrown schizos they get raided all the time by them

Haachama worlds lore anon can clean this up should he feel like it but theres a weird phenomena we go through

>when the mad queens sermons have an extended break, rumors run rampant
>these breaks may have various tells they are coming, but always seem to surprise the younger of the tribe
>after a period, the land shuts down its borders, forcing its inhabitants to spread out among ther various territories till the queen decrees a sermon
>most venture back to to capital, but many find themselves in the schizolands
>those that traverse those wastes are often seen engaging in conflict in the name of putting down the various heresies surrounding their queen.

Imagine the kind of tabletop adventures you can get in /vt/-world
>/infinity/priest and a /wvt/merc going into the lands of /hag/
>/uoh/ infighting over whether oppai lolis are considered legal or not and they have to bring in experts from the write thread
>/asp/ demigods struggling to choose between ascension or staying to live among their former friends
>small corpo deities in /pcg/ and /clg/ visiting in disguise

>>17346333
/nasfaqg/ doesnt even come close to /infinity/ levels of batshit crazy, even on a particularly bad day.

>>17336759
What do we think of Korone in lore, as she does eat yubis

>>17346527
>The mage looked through his spyglass across the horizon. He could barely see the peninsula from here.
>"Why are we here again, anon?" he asked as he de-materialize his spyglass back into his inventory.
>"Recon. As long as the Shitstorm Mori is up and running our ports kept getting wasted. Now hold this weather vane" ordered the anon clad in white armor.
>He was several kilometers far from the city of /infinity/, but the mage still felt like he was home. Perhaps it's the weather? Or the scent of sea salt.
>The /luna/ Paladin slams the spectrometer into the rocky ground. The surface beneath barely cracked opened, a clean insertion. A true testament of a Luknight's strength. He turns the device on and read the display.
>"72 Unique IPs in 20 minutes. The storm is gaining energy from these trolls. As long as the meidos keep them-"
>"-the meidos aren't doing anything, faggot! Look!" the Kronie mage pointed to the black silhouette in the sky.
>A flying fortress. Clearly from the chaotic shitstorm pirates. But painted in /mori/ pink and black.
>A pathetic disguise to the trained eye. Almost anybody can see through the ruse. But in this chaos, it's difficult to tell apart friend from foe.
>From its cannons, it bombards the coasts below. Sending harbors into flames, leaving them to be dragged down the ocean as the shitstorm blows in.
>An automated drone came whirling. It fires a bolt of concentrated magic towards the...
>...unarmed civilian aircraft from the Nijisanji kingdoms.
>"Fucking meidos can't do anything right." the burly Luknight sighed.
>"Say... where are we exactly?" the /infinity/mage was crouching on the ground. Inspecting something.
>The Paladin brought up his map. "An outpost island belonging to /niji/. Why?"
>He turned around to see the mage drop something in front of him. A severed arm.
>"Handy... This was clearly the work of trolls in the region."
>"There's just one problem, anon. This arm aint human." the mage shows its interior. Glistening in glittery liquids, smelling of flowers, and warping his vision.
>"By Luna! This is... Vtuber cadaver!" the Paladin inspects the severed limb. "This belonged to a Pekora homunculus. Such defilement to the gods!"
>"No sign of decomposing. Not a single hint of corruption. There's only one group of people who could do this..." the mage turns around to hills behind him.
>On the peak was a man clad in white robe, adorned with esoteric equipment. He carries the pink and crimson banner.
>"God-eaters..." the mage materializes a rifle and takes aim.

>>17346626
I see Korone as the Leman Russ of the gods, maybe /doog/ has that same kind of viking or wildling mentality s the Space Wolves have in Warhammer.

>>17347498
>the God Eaters of /meat/
Oh thats a good one

so, going off from last thread, just having each general circle 3 or 4 locations on the map they want along with who they are would help a lot, yeah? So anyone here from any of those generals want to circle some bits of the maps theyd like?

>>17350379
I'll probably do so later on today

>>17350793
I compiled all (well, probably most) locations from previous threads. I'll see about putting them together. although chances are starting from scratch would be a bit better.

>>17345878
Welcome to the show.

>>17351115
Where's the hololive area now btw? I chose a location for the Suisei general three threads ago but I don't know if I was in the correct side or not since Nijisanji and hololive are close.
Also maybe me or someone else will post a greentext about the general later.

>>17351663
heres basically what i could pull from the other threads. probably missed a bunch but its a starting place.

>>17352016
Maybe the Suisei general will change places. Also, is that the correct side? I thought the Southern area was Nijisanji's area now

>>17352357
i dont think there's really any consensus on "areas." I am mainly just taking what I saw in previous threads for that image.

>>17352431
There used to be a consensus... until someone just flipped things around and left it like that, and now half the claims use one general area designation and other half use the different one. Just have a poll with the two options and be done with it after a winner is selected.

>>17352486
>using polls
honestly just having concrete claims on small areas would get things done a lot faster than "yeah this area is for X and this area is for Y." it'd probably be better if nijisanji actually picked something and divided it up already, but so far it seems to just be sweeping areas that keeping changing around with no specifics.

>>17352016
for /hfz/, there are 3+ spots posted 1 or two threads ago that they would like depending on their availability and how close they are to the rest of the hololive related boards these were...

>>17352685
yeah its on there. on the left.

>>17352685
2

>>17352715
>>17352685
nvm I'm retarded and didn't see it kek

>>17352582
Unironically yeah, using polls. It's a general thing and it's not of a large consequence, if someone chooses to rig it, c'est la vie. There just /has/ to be a central framework to operate before it goes further, otherwise it'll be pure chaos as you can see in >>17352016.

>>17352838
looking through it there's really not that much chaos outside whoever decided council.

/ag/ and /ybc/ seem to be set, /vtl/ is set right in the center, /nasfaq/ wants islands (at least 2), /meat/ has chosen one location with overlap with /nasfaq/ but thats easy enough to divide, /hfz/ seems to only want one island and has lots of wiggle room, nene and kiara are right across from one another, /infinity/ had an entire thread to decide "we want to be up here", morig picked up an island no one bothered to claim, and haachama world also picked something no one picked up. it really isn't complicated.

>>17335931
Missed lore post
/morig/ >>17117520
/rrat/ >>17063145
/kfp/ >>17135543 >>17138577 >>17178564
/vtsings/ >>17152413
/taotao/ >>17152775
/wg/ >>17162420 >>17177505
/yeah/ >>17178895
/nene/ >17226706 >>17227694 >>17227887

Flag posts:
/ringo/ >>17143875 (updated) >>17158566
/pyon/ >>17236416
/#/ >>17242634

Lore proposals
>>17154357
>>17217671
>>17218134


Sorry if I missed any, we need to do a better job preserving the loreposts

Where's the 5 things to remember when making a flag?

>>17355005
Scroll up >>17336363

>>17355053
My bad, I'm stupid

>>17353083
Maybe we need an anchor post at the beginning of each thread where all new lore proposals are replies to

>>17353030
What was wrong with the /council/ placement? Outside of /infinity/ trying to settle being in the snow or being in /Niji/, the logic for council seemed solid to me and followed the lore posts (at least from what I skimmed)

>>17356772
The issue was indeed being in /Niji/ and /infinity/ fucking off elsewhere.

>>17356837
>being in /Niji/
Which map are we using? The council placement is on the western part of the Hololive continent from the latest border posts >>17141753

So are we going to have map that settles where every company is settled and then let everyone pick where they want to be located?

>>17357170
The issue is that there are two.

>>17356837
/Inf/ didn't fuck off elsewhere though I think the most accepted one was the island part close to the council area instead of being in the north.
But that's TBD

Someone needs to make a medieval/fantasy version of this masterpiece.

>>17357094
If that's the latest update to the map, then I choose an island or bay on the hololive side for the Suisei general. It has to have mountains though.
Where's the topographic map?

>>17356772
nothing, really. just really messily cut up and takes up a lot of realestate.

>>17357170
trying to zone off areas is doing nothing but causing confusion. /inf/ seems to mostly have solved their issues. as for zoning maps, i am personally choosing to ignore them entirely since no one will ever decide on one of them to work.

>>17359435
I agree you. They're occupying too much space and the borders are badly placed

>>17357302
>>17356837
>>17356772
There was an argument over climate, and the compromise was to move /infinity/ further south so it could have both a summer and winter.

>>17359753
It's only confusing because we have multiple maps. If one is decided, used as the OP and everyone is told 'Use this, we'd have order.

>>17352016
one more inf suggestion: >>17331516

>>17360085
then yeah, current OP is probably the best map, it ought to be used

>>17360492
everyone is using the current map. its the constant re-zoning niji/holo/indie/bord culture maps that are fucked. the ones with the giant circles of "NIJI HERE" "HOLO HERE" maps.

>>17360593
telling the generals to just pick a few places and sorting them out seems like the smart thing to do then

>>17360679
yeah. hence trying to get some more suggestions from them like this
>>17352016
similar generals will self-organize to be near each other anyway. as long as they pick a few locations stuff can be shifted around according to lore/preference

>>17360679
>>17360593
>>17360843
Just zone them to specific spots and tell them to pick something in that area.
If multiple groups pick the same spot, they go to war for control of it whenever this game starts.
IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT PEOPLE.

>>17363192
zoning is fucking stupid thats why.

>>17363308
Doesn't matter what you think, zoning makes given each region is Federation of independent states under their specific company.

>>17363449
and im saying instead of arguing over zoning for X threads just pick something since that just works.

>>17363535
Fine. We're using this one.
To make it interesting, the southeast portion of hololive can be contested space.

>>17363787
no i hate it fuck you

>>17363844
Too bad.

>>17363787
I love it, good job

>>17363787
this ones better
>>17364002
hes just posting his own map from last thread that was pointed out to have problems

>>17364151
Your map is shit. Also I didn't make other map, it's just better than yours.

>>17364151
Indie and unaffiliated are the same thing.

>>17364286
Unaffiliated threads, not chuubas, I assume.

>>17364221
>assuming I made maps
nah. I just find zoning to be stupid no matter how you do it. just let anons pick areas to settle. Any zoning will wind up thrown out anyway.

>>17364151
this map makes no fuckin sense
>indies rivaling Niji in territory
>Niji being more unified than Hololive
>Hololive being an archipelago

>>17364470
i prefer his idea with the idea of embassies

>>17365628
And you can have them in unified areas.

>>17364470
>I didn't make maps
>Claims he doesn't want territory
>Posts one that is objectively and subjectively worse
Nice try.

>>17366049
replying to yourself to push your idea forward doesn't really help you either

Having generals choose for themselves will allow for a more dynamic world, and the large amount of seas means that there won't be a truly disconnected part assuming it's a post reinassance tech level

>>17366337
>Multiple people can't be in agreement, it must be samefag!

>>17365747
better to have containment. you seem to be a schitzo, but before assuming, why are you so angry over some guy's version of a map? it's just a bunch of colors representing territory. whichever is prefered is objectively the best one, regardless of what any one anon thinks.

heres a quick test map coloring based on the generals that have only submitted one location.

>>17367017
looks pretty clean

>>17366960
Why are you engaging in such bad faith?

>>17367017
thought Id mention: to whoever reps chammers, might want to either move or add a bit of territory for her. right now shes in real cold climates.

>>17367017
Would be good with colors and references, otherwise most people won't know which territory is which. It also will help if two generals want to be close to each other but it's pretty clean, I like it

>>17368568
yeah just wanted to test first. will go ahead and add a quick color key.
.... If I can remember which color combinations I used.

>>17353083
>>17217469

>>17368568
how this? I probably fucked up somewhere

>>17367017
>>17369701
/∞/ already claimed territory to the eastern sea to make their own island.

>>17369853
there's no island there yet so i cant mark it.

>>17369895
Just mark that as /∞/ territory at least if you're really serious about this.

>>17369969

>>17370355
Maybe the map needs a grayscale version, it's difficult to find some territories

>>17370355
wait, if we're using this distribution >>17363787
aren't some of the picks now out of place?

>>17371449
If they are, they can choose proper locations later.
No way Nina gets that many islands either.

>>17371060
probably could, yeah. would show up better on the bigger map but I'm using a smaller one to fit the upload limit
>>17371449
>we
that aside, I'm going by what people have actually submitted over more speculation.

>>17371691
going by what people have picked, holo zone will probably wind up being this area if the trend continues

>>17371691
>that aside, I'm going by what people have actually submitted over more speculation.
It's gonna be throwaway work unless we have consensus is all I'm saying.

Some picks happened before zoning, which may mean things have to be repicked, or we have to let everyone pick and recreate the map based on the type of geography that fits the generals.

>>17372270
alternatively, the zoning could be throwaway work. Either or, it shows what was submitted already and is a test.

>>17372022
That's way to big for holo. And I'm a holofag.

>>17364151
>>17364470
>>17372360
Please tell me these are different anons, this should be a collaborative effort, but it's appearing like a "I disagree with the agreed zoning so I will push forward the old out of date picks to prevent zoning" sort of deal....

>>17372834
I wouldn't be shocked if it is.
Zoning is the best way forward since company chubba are friendly with those unless they are in the other company.
I.E. try and post about nijisanji in just about any hololive split and see how they react.

>>17373373
i'd think anons would naturally pick locations near generals they'd associate with either way.

>>17373544
Which is why Zoning is common sense so we don't end up with a random clutter and it makes more sense from a political standpoint.

>>17373544
yeah, if you were to ask the /nene/ general where they want to be, they'd probably pick somewhere close to shishilamy, letting generals just pick seems like it could be more fun

>>17373544
it would be stupid not to. dividing your group makes you an easier target. and the reason zoning might not be good, the idea that groups might be zoned away from groups they would otherwise be near, is wrong both because there is no way every associated thread can boarder eachother, and embassies can be held anywhere. zoning also works as containment. i really don't get what that schitzo is on about.

>>17373774
>the reason zoning might not be good, the idea that groups might be zoned away from groups they would otherwise be near, is wrong both because there is no way every associated thread can boarder eachother
Wtf did I just read. That's the whole point of zoning. You create a zone of control, so you don't have to be borders with each other since together everyone falls under the same umbrella. Like the EU, USA, or even Japan. Districts/States/Nations don't share borders but they interact since they are in the same zone....

>>17373774
Wait, when you say zoning, do you mean just marking one giant area for each company, or letting everyone just throw a dart at the board?
Because the latter is retarded as fuck and only a schizos would think it's a good idea.

>>17372834
probably >>17363844 too.

>>17373774
>there is no way every associated thread can boarder eachother,
You'll run into the same problem even without zones right?

>>17374229
No, zones make it much easier for friendly states to be near each other and protect each other.

>>17374755
Well yea, but anon's argument against zones is it will prevent threads that should be close together from being close to each other. However there's a limit to how much border you can have so I don't understand how not having zones alleviates the problem

>>17374229
yes, the problem exists regardless of zoning, and the solution of embassies can be used for either of them, but the problems made by having no zones cannot be dealt with as easily without zoning.

>>17374045
i am in support of having one area to represent a corpo.

>>17374025
i saw someone make that argument in one of the previous threads, and i called him out for it. he was saying that if you zone based on corporation, you might have less interaction between corporations, and that individual states should border states that have more in common with them, regardless of who they are affiliated with. my opinion of it was as i stated in the comment you replied to
>wrong both because there is no way every associated thread can boarder eachother, and embassies can be held anywhere. zoning also works as containment.

>>17374755
this was the argument i was responding to. i think it sucks. see above for why.

>>17374971
Okay, I have no fucking clue if you're for or against having a zone.
In my case, a zone means one area of the world that is specifically for one group for splits of that group to pick territory from.

To those against zones.
1. You're ignoring the fact that corpos stick together, which plays entirely into have zones. Holo is running a full boycott on Niji EN right as well.
2. If a corpo interacts with other corpos, use embassies for that.
3. Think realistically, and try and post about Niji in a holo split and see how the natives react as opposed to posting another holo. People naturally gravitate towards zones.

>>17374971
This anon here >>17374025
I must have misread your comment then, sorry. I think we are aligned.
>if you zone based on corporation, you might have less interaction between corporations, and that individual states should border states that have more in common with them, regardless of who they are affiliated with.
With this context, your post being a response to it make sense. I read it as "zones are bad because it prevents good borders"

>>17375300
>Okay, I have no fucking clue if you're for or against having a zone.
>i am in support of having one area to represent a corpo.
>aka zoning

>>17375422
You should just should say, 'I support zoning' to simply it in the future.

my opinion is that zoning is an arbitrary restriction based on the what-if thought that people will place their plots of lands at random on different continents when they'll just fall in line with whoever they're closest to, naturally creating zones where corpos are rather than waste time on making zones and having to deal with moving stuff around to fit lore/locations within set zone boundaries. itd feel like making nice neat borders to fit into that area over bulges/extensions to other areas that might be outside that zone. and that's not taking into account climate desires and if a certain climate is wanted in a zone but there's no space have it.
the truth: the thread is staying up

>>17375422
>>17373774
Fixed your comment for you
>it would be stupid not to (pick land close to allies). Dividing your group makes you an easier target. The reason zoning might not be good (is) the idea that groups might be zoned away from groups they would otherwise be near. (This) is wrong because there is no way every associated thread can boarder each other, (also) embassies can be held anywhere for (cross zone contact). zoning also works as containment. I really don't get what that schitzo (anti-zone anon) is on about.

You made some big pro-zoning comments citing it as benefits of not zoning which made me do a double take on reality

>>17375751
I agree with this argument.

>>17375751
Absolute freedom is shit for a project like this. Giving people limits makes them think harder and smarter about what they do.

>>17375479
i thought i was spoonfeeding by paraphrasing your definition for zoning
>marking one giant area for each company
>having one area to represent a corpo

>>17375751
sorry, i have autism. sometimes i repeat someone elses argument before i respond to it.

>>17375974
Making your position crystal clear isn't spoonfeeding.

>>17376025
spoonfeeding tends to have a belittling attitude to it, as if you couldn't figure it out if it weren't broken up into individual pieces of information that could, for instance, fit on a spoon. think of trying to feed a 2 month old baby.

>>17376277
Doesn't matter if your post needs translator >>17375751

>>17376400
maybe. there are two extremes in articulation. oine is being so clear that you spend too much time on small details everyone already knows, the other is assuming everyone already knows as much as you. i have a hard time finding a good middle ground, and there are other problems as well, of course.

>>17336363
Reposting: The Number Cross (>>17242634)

I present you the "number cross"
Features:
>2:1 aspect ratio
>cross size is 5x10 'squares' representative of "the top five" and "top ten"
>outer perimeter is mostly representative of the "wider audience
>the color red is representative of the "bloody wars" of the gods and men and the numbers by which they're fought
>the color white is the peace through numbers
>the "number cross" is representative of numbers as the guiding principle for understanding the world
I added a white space perimeter to the number cross because I didn't like how it looked how the cross looks border-to-border. Might change my mind.

anyways, i like >>17363787 best because the neutral/contested areas allow for more interesting dynamics, but why is niji partially blocked from it by holo? i think holo should lose the tail between the light green area (humid subtropical) and the dark green area (tropical monsoon) and that the rest should become contested. hololive is still larger than niji, and that area is still contested primarily by niji and holo in a waxing/waning kind of way, but now niji potentially has easier access to the contested zones which holo tries to block them off from.

>>17335931
A history of /HFZ/'s tax policies and markets:

/hfz/ derives it's taxes from the fights themselves. Tourists of /hfz/ and citizens bet on who they believe is going to win in each match. Those who win get a portion of the overall pot, with the rest going towards the state to fund future fights. Of course, this isn't the only way /hfz/ makes money, as their oversea sponsorships help fund future fights, and other administrative concerns. Because of these reliable sources of income, very little else in /hfz/ is taxed, allowing plenty of citizens to create their own companies and products, none of which, of course, have managed to match the profitability of the main /hfz/ fights.

The previous head of financial affairs, a man who went by the name of "Yubianon", used to be in charge of managing and collecting the hfz bets. However, he betrayed /hfz/ by crashing the markets, and in the ensuing chaos, fled /hfz/ with a large portion of the countries wealth. After the dust had settled, HFZOP, in his infinite and blessed wisdom, recreated the yubimarkets, effectively rebooting the economy, and installing a group of figures that now run a more... stable version of the yubimarket.

The strangest part of this, is that no one has really seen any of the new heads of financial affairs, leading to wild speculation and theories. Some claim that they are part of the disciples of HFZOP, the promoanons, others claim that HFZOP has simply taken control of the markets himself, for a more fair and balanced economy under his watchful eye. Some even claim that the infernal demon Watamage had tricked OP to put her in control of the markets, but anyone foolish enough to shout this blasphemy is executed for their crimes. In the end, these are all theories, with no real evidence to confirm or deny any of them. Although, some have claimed that ever since Yubianon left, they have been seeing members of /NASFAQ/ enter OP's palace...

>>17376611
That's just an excuse for being inarticulate and pretentious.

>>17378131
Why? Because Hololive needs that space, and also Nijisanji still has access to the indie archipelago via the south.

>>17378638
a small area compared to the place above. where do you think would be a good place to amass an army to fight hololive if not the larger landmass bordering hololive directly. if holo needs it, so be it, i just figured it wouldn't make as much sense.

>>17378940
>where do you think would be a good place to amass an army to fight hololive if not the larger landmass bordering hololive directly.
Why do you think Hololive owns it?

>>17378131
>>17378638
I could see Niji expanding outward given how successful Luxeum has been.
That entire area could be contested or outright taken over by Niji.

>>17378975
either because they have diplomatic agreements that niji are upholding for some reason, or because it's a highly defensible position, but i figure it would be easier for niji to engage in the neutral territory if they went through that territory.

>>17379108
>>17379023
>>17378975
To be honest, Nijisanji starting to carve into Hololive territory makes sense due to hololive completely ceding male streamers to them in the West and one of Nijisanji's streamers now not only has the most subs among all of NijiEN, but is posed to overtake at least one member of HoloEN.

Counterpoint Are there enough Niji splits to justify giving them that territory though, since remember, this is about splits and generals, not the streamers themselves.

>>17379298
my thought was that it become contested, not to give it to niji outright.

>>17364151
>hes just posting his own map from last thread that was pointed out to have problems
I am the one that posted >>17141753 and the only purpose was to properly establish proximity in the way the board works, not some random arbitrary lines thrown out of nowhere.

Proximity:
>Holofags being able to access every other thread easily and being united (yet divided) due to their sheer size
>Nijifags being smaller, but sizable enough to have some overlap with Holos and other fanbases
>Neutral threads like Numbers, NASFAQ, /vsinger/ and FPS being easily accessible to the largest fanbases because of course it's obvious
>then we get the smattering of indies, smaller corpos and fetish threads that are largely on their own but together form a sizable portion of the map because they do have a lot of them

How I view threads:
>generals = territory
>topics = events, diplomacy, etc
>shitposts and bait = conflict, war, rebellion, etc

Do you really think that people that post the 300 Kiara/Mori threads deserve territories or that Kiara is that present nad has such a large audience? My answer to that is obviously no.

>>17379425
How about it's contested, but Niji controls the lower half and holo controls the upper half.

>>17379566
Shitposts are like barbarians, they don't hold territory, they just raid and pillage.

>>17379566
And this is why we should use these zones over the other anon's map. They make sense.

>>17379705
sure, but contested means it is changing, usually due to people taking and later losing land in a warzone. they aren't the same as cities or anything, they are basically just military bases that can be gained or lost at any moment. this doesn't mean people can't be unfortunate enough to live there, of course, but whatever. all i'm saying is don't cut it in half, say niji owns one part, and holo owns another and pretend it's still contested.

>>17379566
Why would polar tundra be next to Tropical monsoon in Hololive?

>>17380127
Then I'd just give the lower part to Nijisanji and the upper part is contested land.

>>17380261
do you think niji needs to be bigger? personally, i thought it was fine as it was, just that they couldn't get into the contested areas as easily.

LIVE

Still think that /meat/ should live on this particular batch of islands, it's not like we exclusively hunt holos or nijis anyway.

>>17352016
>infinity claimed the same island as /morig/ after it was already claimed

>>17336759
>They brought her in, still squealing and thrashing in her binds. Perfect, fresh wild game always had a distinct flavor.
> The staff all look at me expectantly, awaiting my commands. Of course, I am not so gauche as to cook the meals myself.
>Instead I am a maestro, leading my culinary orchestra to create spectacular works of art. A little cut here, some seasoning there.
>By the time I am done, the raw meat had been curated into a wonderful banquet.
>A servant walks to me, whispering something in my ear. I smile..
>the guests have arrived, just in time for dinner

>>17384302
Infinity didn't want that stupid island, it made it's own island, with blackjack, and hookers!

>>17380395
Looking through the current Niji generals and splits there's the following.
/NijiEN/ - Second most active threads behind /hlgg/
/2434/ - Nijisanji General
Nijisanji Male General
Nijisanji KR
Nijisanji ID
Lazulight General
/yeah/ - Ethyria General
/rose/ - Rosemi split
/HAHA/ Selen Split

Overall Niji is extremely volatile when it comes to splits with most dying soon after they're created. If anything there should be a rule that a split is created, it has to be next to one of the generals so if it dies, it gets reabsorbed back into the general.

>>17385892
that's because for the nijis most of the splits are created not because there's genuine interest in creating a split, but because "it's what we are supposed to do, isn't it?", so you get alot of flash in the pan splits

Some /ppg/ lore that I made mainly for the funnies

>be me
>a Niabro living in my small corpo town of /ppg/
>Town is run by our 12 (formerly 13, but we dont talk about her) vtubers which all have their followers
>Once we reach a certain age, we all make a pilgrimage to one of the big nations
>They mainly use it the trip to either to view the sites or to spread the word of their chuuba
>Some make the trip just fine, others get harassed out of nations or at an extreme, even killed
>Even heard some gruesome stories of people that didn't make it out alive
>Something about wanting a Sprite instead of a Coke?
>Regardless it's was my time to go on my Journey, I've been preparing for this all my life
>I take my 1st steps onto the boat sailing away from the small corpo island looking forward to what I'll see and the people I'll meet
>I hope I can do my oshi's will justice by spreading her to the right people

Hi, wanna talk about our lord and Savior, Nia Suzune.

My proposal is not to have one continent be one fandom dominated.
Mimic real life continents by having city states, microstates, and other third world independents countries in between

>>17388624
>lets divide all the small content creators and plant them in an area surrounded by a larger corporate entity that controls the entire continent.
>i am sure they will enjoy it, and wont be taxed, occupied, or conquered into irrevelance.
this is a terrible idea.

>>17388849
Literally how the world worked in middle ages
>HRE with a thousand autonomous city states and theocracies fighting each other while still being part of the same federation
>Venice being an independent republic that picks fights with the pope and redirecting the 4th crusade
>the northern crusade
>nordic invasions into britain
>iberia being muslim

>>17388945
indies and small content creators are not part of any corporation, so they are not in the same federation, they are only on the same continent, and will inevitably get consumed by the corporation that owns every other part of the continent. there has to be a reason why they would group up, in the case of a continent for indies, none of them are strong enough to threaten eachother, but they are strong enough together to defend themselves from, or at least pose a bit of a threat to invading corpos, so they can live in their own little area in a largely independent manner. if they were divided, and surrounded by a corpo they would either need to pay taxes to that corpo and allow passage for that corpo, or else they would get overtaken by that corpo. in other words, why wouldn't the corpo take advantage of the indie, and turn them into an irrevelant extension of their power unless they were officially part of that corpo already?

>>17367017
>>17369701
Put /nasfaqg/ on the island + maritime territories (dashed line map), then, since you've put /meat/ on /nasfaqg/'s second location.

Anybody wants to claim the badlands?

>>17336759
I stared at this only for a few seconds but when I switched tabs my retinas are burning. Theyve managed to make their flag a memetic weapon

>>17389289
Because these countries are /vt/ threads anon
Not the actual corpos themselves.
There are indiefags and small corpofags who are also holofags

>>17389659
Worth to note that when the wetter season of ENSO arrives to this area, the coastal areas of the desert could experience some storms and some rainfall. On the other hand, during the dry season I think the area would be pure hell.

The area in the mountain shadow west and south of the mountains should remain dry around the year though.

>>17388624
>mimic real life
>creates a dartboard map with surrounding countries having no relation with each other
Your proposal is late and random. I like the current map which is simple and clean.

>>17389764
not all of them like vshoujo, nijisanji, or holo, and would thus benefit from being independent. as was previously discussed, embassies would be easier if two places are affiliated with eachother. are you saying that every group falls under the same federation because they are /vt/ threads and therefore will tolerate eachother, because many indies would treat being under the same federation as a large corpo in the same way another large corpo would, and their followers are largely the same, if not worse. honestly, i don't get why there are so many people who are against the zoning that has already been agreed upon. everything you can do without it can be done with our setup, but not everything we can do can be replicated by yours. the inevitable result of your proposal is that indies are incapable of standing on their own, and are thus irrevelant as a faction.

>>17389659
Give it to the thirstiest fanbase on /vt/
Average vshojo coomer

>>17389951
he posted it some time before, but hardly anyone responded to him.

>>17390067
>thirstiest fanbase
>vshojo
There are other candidates like /ahoy/ or /ringo/ if you want an ironic joke about drinking piss to survive

>>17390287
/ringo/ doesn't drink piss to survive, it drinks piss to live to the full.

>>17389788
Right. Divided

Now who wants an actual death pit?

>>17390025
oh, also, i forgot to mention, it's less dynamic. basing the zones on continents is less dynamic because landmass doesn't (shouldn't) change. when a nation gains more land by conquering another, does the continent grow, or does the other continent lose some of it's land? when a new superpower is formed while the others still exist, does a new continent sprout from the sea to accomidate? if basing it on continents doesn't matter after everything starts playing out, did it ever matter in the first place? the only difference that would create would be that the corpos start out with their own continents, and every small group doesn't, and is instead at the complete mercy of the corporation that surrounds them. the only solution to this would be to say that the size of the nation (which is supposed to represent thread count and activity) never changes, and that being near unaffiliated groups, even if we say every indie has at least one corpo they would willingly be surrounded by, wont lead to physical or political conflict. i am writing way too much just to explain why some random idea is bad, i guess i just enjoy making arguments or something.

>>17390330
things that start out for one reason can change into another over time. you could say that it started out as a means of survival, but eventually, you guys got so good at it that you did it for enjoyment as well. rich people eat potatoes just like poor people do, the difference is in how, and why.

>>17390485
>mountains
>very dry desert
So, the Atacama

>>17389659
give it to the male vtubers kek

>>17390541
>>17390025
>>17389289
>>17388945
>>17388624
>>17379566
>>17372022
>>17364151
>>17363787
This constant dick measuring push and pull over what geographic convention to use is honestly pretty boring and likely why people are leaving the thread.
Nobody gives a shit about your grand vision for the map. It's a sillt /vt/ thread what if, stop sucking the fun out of it.
Let the threads choose whatever they want (within reason). First come, first served.
Some threads will naturally clump together anyways like KFP and Nenepro did. Srop with the autism.
Let them choose.

>>17392416
This. Just let the threads decide where they want to be.

>>17392416
This is how territory in /ybc/ got decided, and it generated some pretty awesome unexpected borders conflicts, like the Great Haaton-Tako War, or some unexpected border alliances like Pekoland, Candy Kingdom, and Nyan/11

>>17347498
>meidos shot down a Nijiposter instead of the Mori drama trolls
Yeah that checks out

>>17392416
>>17392478
>>17392733
Sounds like another autism push by someone who didn't get what he wanted.

>>17393450
Nobody is getting anything because everytime there's an ounce of progress, the same 3 retards go back to propose maps and divisions.
It's boring the shit out of me. Just let people choose and be done with it

>>17393450
So?
One retard having a fit doesnt mean we should all bend the knee. It's a group autism not a one man band

>>17393768
we are making progress, it seems at the moment that most people prefer >>17363787 so we'll go with that. now we should start focusing on individual thread locations, and after that we can focus on the regions.

>>17394211
Except that most people DO NOT prefer that map, as evdienced by the amount of backlash those divisions got.
Stop trying to make it happen, and just let people pick what they want.

>>17394656
I like that map. Good distribution of landmass and plenty of climate to choose from.

>>17394957
im pretty sure the anon is refferring to the arbitrary division of territories

>>17394656
>Except that most people DO NOT prefer that map, as evdienced by the amount of backlash those divisions got
two comments, probably the same person said they disliked it. the same people were arguing back and forth about it. besides that, >>17388624 also presented a map, but most people didn't like it either. >>17364151 is the most likely candidate at the moment. which one do you prefer?

>>17395091
What's wrong with the division of territories? Claim a land, if there's a conflict, we resolve with lore as the basis of military strength.

>>17395508
some people would prefer to give the threads more freedom in choosing their location instead of forcing evveryone on set continents

>>17395575
embassies solve that problem.

>>17395665
what embassies? how?

>>17395686
Wait don't tell me you're not a vassal of a specific thread?

>>17395686
you can have embassies in places that are not within your territory so long as the place you are in would be ammicable to your group.

>>17394656
>Except "I" DO NOT prefer this map.
Fixed

>>17395898
but how would this fix the aforementioned issue?

FYI regardless of border autism and divisions or not, or what map ends up being used, /ybc/ is not moving from the island we picked.
Come takes us out
Don't we are most likely leaving the thread if it happens

>>17395962
I dont either, I tthink threads should be allowed to choose their locations more freely

>>17395962
Fuck off, stop samefagging.
Freedom for all threads

>>17395963
you are free to be anywhere that allows you to be there.

>>17396028
>>17396100
>samefag intensifies

Just make a poll, retards

>>17396100
>someone accused me of samefagging, i need to project it back to them or else i will be found out.

>>17396137
(you)

Are we seriously seeing 2 samefaggers fight each other.
No wonder everyone left

>>17396216
>4chanX
Nice try.

>>17396266
what the fuck does that even mean

>>17396242
Everything was fine before the mum freedom schizo showed up.

>>17396174
is there a poll that isn't easy to fuck around with?

>>17396396
pretty much, but he has been here for a while. it's just now he's getting noticed.

make the fucking poll

I like the idea of every thread being free to choose where it goes.
t.KFP

>>17396416
No, all a poll will show is which side is more autistic to rig it.

>>17396661
you know where we are, right?

>>17396753
Exactly, it's just going to be which faggot has the better bots/scripts.

>>17396795
based, make it happen

Support dead girl who's as scuffed as Kronii at karaoke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iLvVq_-OcY

>>17398490
anon?

>>17390067
lol compare any /ggg/ to /vsj/

>>17396174
>>17396541
>>17396661
>>17396795
Christ alive, it doesn't matter. There just needs to be a final say either way so the loser no longer has any grounds to keep bitching and wasting time. I'd like to believe neither of them are autistic enough to bot, but even if they are, fucking whatever, it's about as effective as flipping a coin at that point. We just need to settle on SOMEthing

>>17402220
Let's flip a coin, actually.
>>17379566 map fans, heads or tails?

>>17402782
nice try. no.

>>17402782
No, actually make the poll. It has to at minimum be something people other than the creator have input in. Both major world maps + freedomfagging

>>17402782
Only if you agree to heads I win, tails you lose.

>>17402846
>>17402922
>>17402958
No, I mean, /tg/ has a dice roll feature. Just make a post, rolling a d2, you can make a coin flip impartially.

>>17389526
will adjust the colors to match flags and stuff in the future, so consider these temp colors

>>17403485
>haachama bros are deep in penguin territory
But why?

>>17403485
also will probably be using different patterns for affiliation in the future too
>>17403552
I did mention they should move it this thread. If you frequent there please either ask them to move to a different location or consider expanding

>>17403485
woops, left out a bit
compared to everything else it does feel like a lot, though. Might shrink in the future, or everyone might just take more land.

>>17404178
on the other hand might not. feels about the same as ybc. just spread more.

Honestly, why are people against polls? We know the avg unique IP count so if there's a significant drift toward one side.

What are our contenders?
>>17363787
>>17388624
>too 2 maps but no zoning
>>17364151

>>17404178
bu surface area its comparable to ybc, if not smaller, just spread out

>>17405282
said about as much, yeah,
could probably swap where kiara and nene are too. that way nene is closer south to the cold regions and kiara would be mildly geographically closer to deadbeat island. up to them though if they're still around.

>>17404178
Is infinity a fucking borg cube floating out in the ocean?!

>>17405674
just as kronii would've wanted

>>17405674
>borg cube
holy kek. I wish it was now
they want to put an island there at some point. who knows if they will.

>>17405726
what happened to them being three little alcatraz islands

>>17405674
>>17405701
>>17405726
Imagine just being a citizen of /hlg/ and this thing came descending down from the heavens calling themselves the disciples of Kronii
And every anon paying a visit hears this https://youtu.be/CjDcrEhMpog

>>17406036
The Kronies dont want to feel associated with the plebians on the surface so they literally took off into the sky
Which got me thinking, is it okay to add in non terrestrial places like Atlantis, Laputa, and Columbia?
Some anons would want their thread colony underground or flying

>>17405782
That's a good fuckin' question....
The placement was still in the speculation stages, then map anon started putting shit on the map to make things unambiguous for "territories with only 1 claim". /inf/ clearly is still in discussion....
Relevant posts
>>17352016
>>17367017
>>17370355

There are also some people who said he should stop and people repick based on the new agreed zoning but then that sparked a debate about zone/no zoning, and which zones to use.

Map painter anon continues to put shit on the map regardless. Although breaking his rule of "only one claim".

>>17406293
Is there more than one claim? I got told by infinity to put a claim there after i made the map and later by nasfaq to put their claim there too since they decided.

>>17406370
as a nashag, i like that claim

>>17406370
Linked in the post for all claims so far >>17352016
This guy >>17369853 said put it in the east which kinda had the effect of burying the other claims

>>17406226
>Some anons would want their thread colony underground or flying
>two or more threads occupying the same area on the map because they are right above/under each other

>>17406550
>/inf/ cant settle down on which piece of land to take and just collectively decides to add a new island instead
Kek. That really does sound like something Kronii would do

>>17406550
if anyone from /inf/ has any qualms with the current spot then, please let me know.

>>17406666
the big dumb space borg cube makes me laugh.

KFP here, I don't care where we end up as long as its mountainous. Ideally it would be near the Teamates or Hasbands though.

>>17407127
how about something like this

>>17407412
>/meat/ being on the same continent as kfp
no amount of food will satiate their hunger, but being on the same continent as an infinite source of food might come close. is kiara secretly a /meat/chad?

>>17407914
>/meat/ raids fill coffers and stomachs
>chosen go across the mountain with loot in hand to order a number 9 large for the citizens at their local kfp branch

>>17407412
Im not sure If I understand this map correctly, KFP and nene swap places?

>>17408119
so /kfp/ is junkfood, good for the occasional snack, but not a valid replacement. got it.

>>17408119
>in order to survive KFP, instead of fighting /meat/ barbarians uses a unique appeasement strategy and just feeds them some thighs now and then...

>>17408261
New outline as new KFP border, then nene takes over where kfp used to be. Alternatively, nene takes both halves of the old borders.

>>17408458
"Rush hour" in the Kfp empire must be rough

>>17408119
>>17408458
>>17408824
>be me
>/kfp/ citizen
>hear some rumbling from the horizon
>the /meat/ horde on horsebacks
It's lunch hour

>>17408999
https://youtu.be/uLWr03q5sDU

>>17405234
The deadbeat inside all of us rejects poals

>>17408546
so between left or right

>>17346463
Is Haachama world Yharnam?

>>17346463
so you're fine with being down in the antartic circle?

What absolute autism is this thread.

>>17411981
just the typical autism for this board, i figure.

>>17411981
its very based
cool to see anons this creative

>>17405674
>>17405726
>>17406036
>>17406550
>>17406666
>We are /∞/, Lower your weapons and surrender your split. We will add your biological and technological distinctions to serve our own. Your lewds will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWgDnL6nhk

>Single solitary island nation with a massive mountain and lighthouse, with a meteorite at the top
>Lighthouse only shines when the comet appears marks her trail across the night sky, shining a stream of light into it
>Travelers are drawn to its allure, enthralled by the light from yonder over the horizon. Some even departing from their travels to pay tribute to it before leaving once more
>During times of darkness, when the stream of light has long since gone and the comet has yet to be seen, certain individuals can pop out and instigate conflict, whether willingly or not
>The nation's security is heavy-handed, yet only appears sparingly, when those with malicious intent who seek to lift the veil appear. The conflicts might get heated, but they are short-lived, often ending once the day turns over
>Many researchers have built observatories with which to observe the skies and find patterns to predict when and where the comet will appear, but so far only the heavens themselves know.
>Its inhabitants, the Hoshiyomi, stay for many reasons, some to watch from afar, some to discuss the comet's peculiarities, and some even crave the light's beauty for their own. However, the comet itself is far away and only shines its light when it suddenly appears.
>As such, the hoshiyomi can only voice their wish and hope that the heavens grant them their favor

Something an anon wrote about the Suisei general in our thread. I would add that it would be a naval nation and that the thread always stays afloat no matter the rising tides of other threads coming and going. As such, it's one of the oldest nations.
Now I would need an island or bay with mountains for the theme. The island thing is optional but it would greatly help with the isolationism the nation has. I don't know if there's an island with mountains in the hololive side or wherever the Suisei general ends up though. Flag soon™

bump

>>17392416
What is this horseshit? We were finally making progress on how to realistically address geo-politics and you throw this bitch fit.
Absolute freedom is a horrible way of approaching this because of the fact that you could end up like situations like this >>17388624 where this >>17388849 will be the outcome and the split will be destroyed. And given this is a pen and paper simulation and not an active one like Minecraft, there's no reason the destroyed split to remain if the victorious split pulls a Carthage on them.
There's also the realistic standpoint that corpo tubers are going to stick together because they're in the same corporation. It would be like having the United States, or the United Kingdom but having every state and country be littered around the earth. They would not be as powerful and the weaker ones would be wiped out.
And it's not like alliances outside of the corpo is prohibited and it would create more political intrigue.

>>17420904
i was one of the guys who was arguing over this stuff, too. this thread is making me realize how fucking retarded i am in terms of articulation, but thank you for describing what i was trying to say in a way that didn't appear "pretensious and inarticulate"

>>17421117
At this point, someone just needs to make a colored map showing what each corpo controls instead of a poorly drawn outline.
If a current corpo split is outside its corpo territory (see /nene/), they can either stick to where they are and suffer the consequences if the corpos in their area decide to conquer them, or they can pick a new area within corpo territory.

>>17421591
>>17421117
>>17420904
We should put countries down first then decide the borders. as it currently stands, Most Holos are actually quite close together, with /Nene/, /KFP/ and /MoriG/ all being on, or near, this island. Trying to force standardized groupings before people are even on the map is fucking retarded.

tl;dr see where people go then make fixes based on the reality that actually exists, rather than enforcing an arbitrary map that was made before we even knew who was where.

>>17422293
That won't stop them from being spread out and defeating the point of having territory.
This >>17379566 makes a compelling and realistic argument for where everything should be.

>>17421591
the problem with that is that it is highly dependent on the participation of people who represent each thread. i would say first come, first serve, but this kind of thing is what will lead people to wanting to revert the whole thing to a previous state, so i want to make sure everything is as good as possible before we proceed. regardless, at this point it is beginning to seem easier to just do it and let the sudden changes force those threads back into the discussion, or punish them for not showing up on time which could harm the thread's longevity in the future. if i had more skill in this kind of thing, i might be tempted to do it myself, but alas, i can barely use photoshop to make a map, let alone figure out a good way to set everything up like >>17379566 did with their stuff.

>>17422293
as one anon said previously, zoning adds limits, which often inspire creativity. i have been an advocate for embassies from the beginning, you can be anywhere that will allow you, but you should centralize your group's capitals in their containment regions.

Look, it's clear the map shit was a wrong turn...too much autism on both sides. The majority of people just want to lore post and make stories and adventures.

This is what I'm proposing
>Group all generals to factions ie (Holo Empire, Niji Republic, the West Indies etc...)
>Have generals describe their landscape, biome, and borders
>if possible have neighbors established (no faction limit, that Kronie/Niji border anon can have his case)
>Reform the map with proper borders and biomes of each lore'd general.

Currently we are trying to make puzzle pieces fit on an arbitrary map made before most of the lore posts, with claims from different zoning proposals.

Maps can come after we actually know what the powers actually look like. Because right now there are not enough islands or mountains from reading the shit people posted.

Just my 2 cents

>>17422947
this I agree with. The zoning autism has stopped any and all progress.

Nations have their landscapes described, then we ailor the landmass based of what's needed. I'll even draw the map myself, that comes with a Kopen Climate projection.

>>17422947
You know, it occurs to me that even if we did hash out all this map autism satisfactorily, the second a new gen drops or something we'll have to figure out how to carve out territory for them from the established nations, starting the shitshow all over again.

>>17422947
>Have generals describe their landscape, biome, and borders
You severely overestimate the general's capacity and willingness for this. Look, even the splits are just waiting for the major players to lay claim on lands to have their turn at it. Threads will just carve out their chosen place if it serves their lore.

>>17422947
>>17423098
So nuke the current map, let people describe what they want and then make a new one based on their descriptions?

>>17423435
Just leave unclaimed territory in each corpo territory so they have a place.
Also you have to remember, not every split is going to survive. A lot of the older ones have had to join together, like /mogu/ + /doog/. That should reflect on their in game status where they are just one territory, not two combined.

>>17423494
This is why limits are needed, if you give to many options, they won't care. But point out a specific continent and say 'pick something from it', it becomes a lot easier.

>>17423661
This can be solved without the map though. Have the generals pick:
>island
>plains
>desert
>mountains
>forest
>arctic

We shape the map based on the picks and their corpo faction

>>17424112
this. If they want to add any extra flourishes like "put me next to nasfaq" or whatever they can do that as well but honestly just giving them the option to pick from that list should make it more than easy enough.

>>17424484
What's stopping them from claiming territory next to nasfaqg?

>>17424706
You've completely misunderstood my point.

I'm suggesting that we let the generals roughly describe their Biome, or pick one from the list, and if they want to ask for an extra flourish, such as being near a particular general, we can arrange them on the new map so they are next to nasfaq.

This method of doing things bypasses zoning autism while also preventing things like, for example, /PKG/ being encircled by Holo on all sides, from happening.

>>17425005
Then pkg should pick a land where it is not encircled by holo (which is already the current state of map). There are already good variety climates that they could choose from and based on that, you could already make a biome or bolster your lore if they wanted that extra flourish.

>>17425642
you're still completely misunderstanding my point.
The main issue with the map is that it leads to zoning autism, which has ground progress to a halt. Creating a new map based on the demands of the generals will bypass this.

At this point you're advocating for the map for the sake of advocating for it, even though its been the thing that has by far slowed us down the most. It also ignores that certain things will be in specific demand. KFP wants mountains but also wants to be near NenePro. Infinity wants a set of off coast islands. Because they're both in HoloEN they have to be close to each other, but on the actual map there's only one place where that can actually happen.

The map, as it currently stands, creates more issues than it solves.

>>17426230
>The main issue with the map is that it leads to zoning autism, which has ground progress to a halt.
Then brute force the issue. Create territory for every corpo, put in a map, then post the map in every split with the comment 'mark where you want to be in this territory'.
Be proactive in solving this instead of always going back and reinventing the wheel every time something happens you fucks.

>>17426230
this is where embassies can help. also, the map is what facilitates this whole thing. sure, we spent a lot of time setting up the board, but that's a waste of time so lets just go in blind and disregard all the progress that was made thus far.

>>17426230
The thing is, your past replies is just "misunderstanding my point" instead of actual solutions. I've adressed your concerns while you just come up with another problem as you see fit. Kfp have no qualms on their place, nenepro just choosing at this point and infinity being infinity. Your "scrap all the ideas and start a new one" seems to be your ultimate solution. Now tell me who's the one that halting progress?

>>17426840
t. not the anon you were responding to. the more you claim he misunderstood your point, the more i think you are being disingenuouis. at some point, it becomes your responcibility to make your point as clear as possible. it is a common tactic to shroud your arguments in ambiguity, claiming everyone who criticizes you is merely misunderstanding you while you refuse to provide a clear definition. please explain CLEARLY what you mean by all of this.

>>17427048
Refer to my first question
>What's stopping them from claiming territory next to nasfaqg?
Then tell me if he answered that.

>>17427327
i seem to have misunderstood the post i responded to. i thought you were the other guy i guess.

>>17420904
Why would you do this? Seriously, the only one throwing bitch fits is you. Compare what you ideally want to happen versus what is actually happening. You believe everything will fall apart if we do not 'zone' properly, yet comparatively, just putting down some nations on a map instead of worrying about how to group corpos created what this thread is fucking about: fun lore.
Please, really, honestly, take a moment to reflect instead of trying to push whatever you want for the sake of your personal vision.

>>17428069
this comment is better applied to you than the guy you're responding to.

>>17428069
Why are you pretending you speak for everyone here?

These two faggots have been at it all day.
It's a World Building thread, not your personal playground. Can you both fuck off already? Zones are retarded, and so is re-setting the map every 3 hours.
Fuck. Off. Both. Of. You

>>17429412
this going on all day should prove that it isn't just two people.

>>17429524
you underestimate autism.

>>17429574
i know that i have been engaging in it a bit. i guess i don't know that the other people aren't all the same, but i guess you are technically right on that. still, i think it is a worth while discussion at the moment, even if i think my side is much better.

>>17429741
the fact of the matter is:
zoning unironically ground everything to a halt. for or against, it did.
In terms of progress, there have only been 1 anon or maybe 2 anons working to push past whatever autism zoning created. The person that decided to actually put countries on the map, and the person going around asking about location types for a new map. They could be the same anon or different ones. arguing over literally nothing is so much worse than doing something and maybe making a mistake that can be easily backtracked.

>>17430238
agreed, but i lack the skills to make any progress. there aren't any anons both willing and capable of progressing this past these petty discussions at the moment, so for the time being i am voicing my opinion so as to prevent the others from drowning all others out and making it appear to have more support than it actually does. in short, all i know how to do is defend what was already established, and wait until someone comes who could settle these disputes more eliquently.

>>17422947
>>17424112
This anon here, before we move on to the next thread, are we in consensus?

>Fuck the map,
>Go back to lore posting.
>When enough lore has been established, then some autist can actually try and make a map.

But wait, there's this guy
>but noooo it's only 2fags, you're trying to make us start over all this hard work! you're one of them aren't you? F-fuck off
There's at least 3 given I'm pro-zone, had someone reply pro-zones with me, and there's the anti-zone guy. Right now the only valid anti-zone comment is zoning blocked progress, so yea, I'm saying fuck it - make generic blue and red circles on a map. We can make lore out of the stupidest shit, this is /vt/

Next thread should try to address the issue of book keeping the lore since there's now a lot, some unlinked, and no way to access them all easily

>>17431186
How about instead of just resetting everything again and making it entire text based, we just go forward with the zones. Have this anon >>17404178 do the map and then present it to the splits.
Assuming the anti-zone autists don't samefag everywhere to openly sabotage it, it should get us back on track. But if there's organic pushback, we go back to the drawing board and do something like >>17422947 Or what you suggested. Several days of debating over boundaries doesn't mean the project has ground to a halt like captain autism here is trying to force. >>17392416
And furthermore, as said before, restrictions force people to get creative and make a better product, so let's not don't pretend freedom is always good.
We have a map, someone even drew out climates, weather and currents. So let's try and make it work first before throwing everything out again because one autist complains, otherwise we're be stuck in an endless cycle where we make some progress, but then someone raises a big enough stink and we have to start over.

>>17431186
ya, op royally fucked it up, but we still remember the jyst of what they were about, right. lets try to rebuild.

>>17431186
there's at least two anons that dont want zoning

>>17431344
that is essentially what I'm proposing, create a generic one with the main players of /vt/.

This is supposed to be a fun lore building thread, not EU4. I don't think we need exact borders to make good stories. I like the "God eaters" one by that 1 kronie personally, and that was no map required

DESU, the real problem is the climate map was hard as fuck to read. and terrain is hard to discern. use symbols instead of colors onegai

>>17431608
What I'm proposing is we just go forward with the zones, and then just get the splits involved by asking them what area they want in their respective zone. If they pick out spots, it means we're back on track, if there's push back, we go back to the drawing board.
Sacking the current progress because one or two people are throwing a bitch fit just will embolden them because you're given them veto power over the whole project.

>>17431779
>entire argument over zones
>lets just do zones
bro...

I don't want zoning, to be quite honest. But I also want progress, so just do something

>>17431819
Just do it, if it fails, it fails. Blowing up the whole project before even trying it is fucking stupid.

>>17431922
timeloops. were in em

>>17431960
Maybe, but you're damning us to timeloop if we don't try.

I think we should just go forward with the zones and let anyone who wants to flesh them out do so on their own time. Too many anons are bitching about the zones and actively not making their own maps that dont zone.
This map got so much content for it because the anon who did it just did it without the autistically slow process of getting input from each general as to where they want to be placed. Once we get a idea, we can just fuck around and go from there with the discussions of the tech levels of each nation, the chuubas as demi-gods, and whether or not magical creatures are going to be a thing.

>>17432009
isnt this whole thread and the last a try?

>>17432069
>Too many anons are bitching about the zones and actively not making their own maps that dont zone
there is one. its te only one in thread that got actual discussion and lore instead of autism

>>17431779
here's my counter argument to this (again I'm a pro-zoner).

Suppose the anti-zoners want things chaotic because they want to lorepost interesting shit like /inf/ switching sides from hololive or a schizo invasion and /morig/ is isolated?
Just fuck the map and let the lore flow my dude

>>17431819
just because the argument is over zones doesn't mean the solution is to do away with zones. people have arguments over gender nowadays, but only a small fringe of retards want to abolish gender as a concept.

>>17432069
this is both the easiest, and best solution in my opinion. variants of this map were proposed, but this map was able to establish something so that people who didn't care to contest it didn't need to involve themselves in any of it.

>>17432070
No, because it's just people pissing on each other and not actually making a map and letting /vt/ see it.

>>17432195
Counter point: You can easily keep things interesting, even chaotic with zones because it means you have to be cloak-and-dagger to accomplish your goals. I.E. Let's take your example of /infinity/ switching sides and using this map >>17432069. They secretly sign an alliance with the Nijisanji Empire who then quietly marshals in soldiers into /infinty/, and then lauch a two prong attack against both /uuu/ and /rrat/ where now Nijisanjji controls the entire northwest peninsula and build a defensive line to ward off any counterattack by the hololive empire. That entire scenario was devices on the spot by your example and the map + zones. If we revert to just being text, certainly the scenario could be done, but it wouldn't have the visual impact as looking at the map and visualizing troops moving and claiming territory.

Yeah... this is going nowhere.
/ybc/ kindly removes all requests and officially retires. You can keep the island, hit me up when this is actually interesting again

>>17432550
text based world building would probably end at "kronii joins niji" and be over with it. i like your idea more.

>>17432682
same, im out. tried making the test map with what was given to push past this and have something, and instead we have more of the same. It was good for all of 5 hours after I posted version 4.

>>17432550
A large amount of worldbuilding comes from just plain glances at the map.
>does /pyon/ or the other indie generasls stake claim to the territory that's only a small boat trip away and possibly risk antagonizing the Federation?
>What's the relationship like between the Fetish Holy Lands and their neighbors in the Holo Empire, clearly it's somewhat friendly since /ahoy/ and Matsuri are directly connected to Hag and Uooh island.
That's all relative to the old map but you can understand what I mean.

>>17433028
just make a more fleshed out version of the modern map, just like the previous anon did. is anyone here good at that? maybe an anon who made a previous map can come out and at least present something to start us off with?

>>17433028
Exactly, this should be treated less as a text based adventure and more as a D&D game where there's a board with tangible results.

BUT WHAT ARE THE TERRITORIAL SEA ZONES FOR THE COASTAL REGIONS?

>>17433273
if someone wants to gather all the lore posts in a doc, then maybe I'll gie one final attempt to put what i can to a map

>>17433273
I've got photoshop and enough autism to spend time typing out the different generals and their territories but I'm not autistic enough to scour through what each general has mentioned about themselves and where they want to go.
>>17433571
I can do that fairly quickly.
>>17433516
Constant and unending naval war. Whoever has the power to control those waters with blood and gunpowder claims its territory until someone else rolls in.

>>17433739
g3 controls the waves, constantly plundered by festival, meat, and ahoy

>>17433739
Okay, use this map. >>17335931
Use these zones >>17379566 (But keep them a color so it doesn't bury the topography)

And then we can start posting the map in various splits to see what territory they want.
Also, they don't have to fill out everything since splits live and die.

>>17433739
That implies even the nations within the same "alliance" have maritime wars. Also, there's far too much uncontested sea between regions implying that piracy or /meat/ raiders have a lot of control over the high seas. How's that gonna work out for tourism or trade when critical naval routes have no governing regions?

>>17379566

>>17434146
>>17433739
>>17433739
You don't control entire oceans, just the area around your land. The fucking British had the most powerful navy in the world, but they couldn't police it all.

>>17434285
Okay, then what about exclusive economic zones? Fishing rights? Right to traverse?

>>17434603
You'd get something like this.

>>17434750
Yeah so we need to set maritime boundaries now.

>>17434788
no we dont. just set the land boundaries and think about maritime shit if it becomes an issue

>>17434835
This, set zones, have every split/general pick their land, then work on stuff like this. Because remember, not all the land has to be used since we have to take into account future chuubas.

>>17434903
>generals pick their land
I'm opposed to this since it will take unnessecary time and effort. Map makers should throw generals wherever and let them edit their own maps to accomodate their desires.

>>17435135
This approach would be poison towards participation since what's the point of doing anything if they're given zero say in where their country is?
Yes, it will take time to get all their input and settle any dispusts if multiple splits want the same space, but this isn't a speed run people.

>>17435135
This.
Any generals that have a strong preference have had time to say their piece. Now we just need to throw everyone onto a map, taking into account the lore bits that have been posted so far. Once there's a rough draft in place it will be easier for people to give concrete suggestions and make some additional tweaks if necessary.

>>17435600
Then zones become redundant. We already have a plan that everyone agrees to, no need for further input. We are using zones and the map we have designed already

>>17435761
Zones are there to help speed up the selection process of where groups get territory.

My only warning is this is going to stifle participation since we allegedly already lost people participating and just picking major stuff like land (Even if where they can select it is restricted) would be a turn off to people joining in.
My compromise is we make the map and then just post in every split their part of the map so they can pick what they want. If no one does after a certain amount of time, the people here select the best fit based on their lore.

I also don't see the why we're trying to rush to get this done now that we got everything basically agreed too and the whole point was to get splits to participate. But to make it clear, I'm not going to go captain autism to stop it if you decide to barrel forward.