/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

General numberfag sites
>https://playboard.co/en/
>http://ikioi-ranking.com/
>https://vrabi.ml/
>https://live-ranking.userlocal.jp/vtuber-ranking

Hololive sites
>https://holo.poi.cat/
>https://www.hololyzer.net/youtube/index.html
>https://trackholo.live/en/

Nijisanji sites
>https://niji-mado.web.app/stats/hourly
>https://twitter.com/2434rankings
>https://twitter.com/2434subscriber

Twitch
>https://sullygnome.com/
>https://twitchtracker.com/
>https://stats.roki.sh/

Full list at https://pastebin.com/CCfK7mVR

>>15524146
Unironically, tourists.
There's a reason Niji tournaments have been exploding in CCV and VOD views whereas it feels like there's a cap to Holo events.
More exposure is never a bad thing for events and there's no fucking way Cover applying for a topic makes a dent on their financials.

>Reimu-sama… ;-(
What went wrong?

>>15524194
holos get into nip twitter trending more often than nijis despite the massive likes and retweets nijis get, i wouldnt be surprised if more than half of the holo anniversary/birthday lives got to #1 trending in nipland

>>15524296
You should look at Vox and Mysta's twitter follower count vs Ethyria.
It's really sad.

Pakora has definitely lost a ton of members. Just compare membership comments for these two streams; https://holo.poi.cat/stream/di1qcHrEb4o
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/2CHqJIq-Nak

>>15524217
who is getting hit harder by the cull big tubers loosing 4-5k but still realtively good numbers or smaller INDIES loosing 50 -100 people where it seems more noticeable to them

>>15524296
>What went wrong?
They're girls in manjisanji.

>2.5k viewers at the time
>3 minute poll
>3.3k votes
Jesus

>>15524348
seems like around the same? 50 to 60% membership comments for both

>>15524348
I don't see any big difference, pekoschizo

>>15524348
Looks the same to me. Can you highlight where you’re seeing the difference?

https://youtu.be/YtffykcQzjM
Polka 900k endurance, from 9 till noon, if she doesn't make it she's inviting all Holomen that want to dinner

>>15524309
Now imagine how much more overwhelmingly dominant Holos would be on the platform if they also had a topic?
Considering the cull we're witnessing in front of us, now is a good time to get more tourists to convert into fans.

>>15522688
翻訳はDeepLから, わかりにくかったらごめんなさい
こんにちは日本ニキ, 要約すると, 私たちが知っていることは以下の通りです.
2日間, みんなのライブの再生回数が平均を大きく下回っています. ホロライブだけでなく, にじさんじだけでなく, 独立系のvtuberや他のストリーマーも. 一番不思議だったのは, 20~30分後にカウンターの上昇が止まり, 放送中ずっと同じ数値で推移するか, 急に伸びてまた止まることです. ポケモンのシロナとの戦いや, マリンがいろはを呼んだときなど, 本来ならカウンターがどんどん上がっていくような場面でも, カウンターが変わらないんです. これはHolodexのせいではなく, そのサイトに載っていないVtuberも低い数字を出しているからです. また, 台湾のVtuberも数値が低いようです, だけど台湾では2月まで新年を祝わないので, だから新年のお祝いが原因とは考えにくいのですが. また, 以前はYoutubeのライブカウンターが30秒ごとに変化していたが, 現在は3秒ごとに変化していることもわかっている, これは, Youtubeが再生回数のカウント方法を変更したことを示す非常に良い証拠です. 何を変えたのか, なぜ変えたのか, まだ正確にはわかりませんが, 何かがおかしいということはわかります. 私たちの間でこの問題を解決し, Youtubeに圧力をかけることができればと思います.

>>15524309
Trends are dictated by amount of tweets within a timespan. Likes are going to do shit for trending but it will get them to tournaments I guess.
I always get Niji stuff shoved into my feed and it usually pops up as a recommended topic (I only follow Holo members on my Twitter).

>>15524463
Susan will cull her.

* FINAL TALLY OF THE DAY *

>25,498: Kanae (Nijisanji)
>22,104: Iroha (Hololive)
>20,347: Fubuki (Hololive)
>20,210: Laplus (Hololive)
>19,532: Choco (Hololive)
>18,949: Pekora (Hololive)
>18,819: Nijisanji (Nijisanji)
>15,874: Fubuki (Hololive)
>14,697: Kuzuha (Nijisanji)
>14,637: Marine (Hololive)
>12,000: Subaru (Hololive)
>11,238: Chloe (Hololive)
>10,958: Korone (Hololive)
>10,698: Tamaki (NoriPro)
>10,263: Chloe (Hololive)

>>15524517
I'm going to fucking kill myself

>>15524348
Thank you for the invaluable data lab rat!

>>15524517
Ew!

>>15524475
Sorry anon, I can slowly read most of what’s written but tl;dr, I’m happy for you or I’m sorry for the passing of your dog

Give a QRD

>>15524463
... i want her to fail just to see how she will try to dodge this offcolab

>>15524475
>not adding in the evidence from ナミビア

>>15524517

can someone post this graph>>15522629
but with FBK magikarp +30k stream?

>>15524348
I see little to no difference. If you're gonna shitpost about Pekora then at least make sense and be accurate with the numbers, Pekoschizo. You're in the fucking numbers thread. This is pathetic, even for you.

>>15524573
Wouldn’t be the first time she failed an endurance

>>15524565
>>15524588
>>15524539
Numberrot is healing you fools. Get out for once and celebrate the new years rather than being bothered by imaginary medals and numbers.

>>15524517
Take it away, I don't want it.

>>15524348
I think you name still appear green until it actually expires, doesn't it? It's only been a few days, you'd have to wait longer to observe a change even if people did mass cancel.

>>15524680
i don't like this cope, can we get another one?

>>15524680
but the numbers...

>>15524571
It's just a summary of what we know so far for any passing nipbros

>>15524680
>imaginary medals
I'm hurt,

>>15524472
That's arguably may not be the case.... the reason niji dominates the twitter is not just because of topic but because it is their gathering place, in contrast, holo has 600k subreddit, 4ch board mostly dedicated for them, a board in 2ch and a fan+hate dedicated thread in 5ch.

So, what's the difference between day 1 and 2 of c99? All I know is that Hololive opened their booth while nijj didn't. Day 2 supposed to be only vtuber doujins or are doujins for both days?

>>15524406
>>15524424
>>15524455
>>15524629
I wish holostats had the actual fucking overall percentage instead of just random bars, but you're clearly blind if you think the current stream doesn't have a higher proportion of greys. Dark purple is members and light purple are greys.

If the concert gains more than 100k, then cull will not work on niji. It is fair to multiply the holo numbers by 2, and the niji counts unchanged.

>>15524811
I'm colorblind

>>15524777
there there, have a ogey, the bad man can't hurt you anymore.

>>15524792
No. Every day is a new thematic or circle. Usually there's one day where is all porn and the others are official stuff with some non-porn doujin products. I dunno if that's the case this year or not.

>>15524811
you can hover over the bars to see the percentage

Lui and Roboco's numbers right now are so fucking terrible holy shit

>>15524617
Not sure why you want to compare the two, but here you go.

Funny that so many last samurai were mocking the concept of a separate EN gold count a couple days ago. After my beautiful Shark Queen starts mogging all the JP talent now that the playing fields are equal, you are gonna be begging for a JP only list.

Oh the ironing

>>15524896
You are welcome
t. Susan

>>15524617
>>15524919
If it's the spikes that look strange on Pekora's stream, that's normal when you're fighting a boss over and over again and people tab in/out.

>>15524930
howdy seaboy

>>15524930
She'll have to start streaming first.

>>15524889
You can't just pick a single bar. You have to judge the whole graph. Overall the current stream has much less member comments. I'm sure there is some site which provides the actual overall percentage that proves me right, but I can't find it right now.

>>15524289
>paying a fortune to temporary bring in the
>unloyal tourists
>who watch only the tournament
>who dont stay for normal streams
>who barely get you any money
im not sure they are really worth it, why pay if your audience will attend on their own volition

>>15524930
Oh nyo!

>>15524348
Not even a pekora watcher, but that clip with jun joking that he fucked pekora without condoms just to piss off the antis/gachis is extremely distasteful. Even if pekora didn't do anything wrong, I can understand if a few of the hardcore gachis get turned off by pekora because jun and that video lives rent free in their heads

>1,736 different people posted in chat
>no more than 2,101 people were watching at any time
lol come on now

>>15525013
>seaboy
FUCKING KEK
>it’s established

>>15524517
Hololive 11
Nijisanji 3
NoriPro 1
The top ten is Hololive 7 and Nijisanji 3

The splits look normal but the magnitude looks bad.

>>15524879
Looks like day 2 is when most of the vtuber porn gets sold.
Don’t know if Hololive booth is there for day 2

what if I pay youtube premium but still keep tabbed out? They dont need me to watch their retarded ads

HATERS WILL SAY THIS IS PHOTOSHOPPED

>>15525064
>paying a fortune
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how much it costs to set up a twitter topic, because from what I've seen, no one pays for one.
You have topics for stuff like "illustrators", "viral artists", "anime", "youtubers"...etc.
Who is paying for these topics?

You might me mixing it up with promoted tweets, which is a different thing entirely.
For all we know, topics are handed out by twitter, not paid for.

>>15525064
I don't know, seems better than pouring cash into a likely failure of a game. Just a 5% retention from the topic would be worthwhile for the money spent if the niji twitter numbers are anything to go by.
On a sidenote, stop fucking with metaverse and roll out a idol management holo gacha game YAGOO!

>>15525191
>for all we know, topics are handed out by twitter, not paid for.
how young are you anonchama

>>15525284
Fuck you and give me number.

>>15525241
If you're following this hobby then you should know it is fucking unlikely for the game to fail at finding a market.

>>15524517
Hey, at least Iroha HoloX is doing okay

The question is if this kerfuffle are just Pajeets doing the needful with spaghettis nonsense code or if it is intentional by Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0firv69LkgI
1M (7 days and 8 hours)

>>15525374
*and

>>15525241
Most games aren't successful due to it not having that many players. HoloAlt is likely to be 100% successful on launch due to thousands of fans playing it and how much Holomembers are gonna shill it. Seeing that, I'm pretty sure investors already lined up for the game.

Twitter topics, however, doesn't turn into income. Only exposure.

>>15524811
Again, this is pathetic even for you, Pekoschizo. Undertale is going to pull in autists that are only interested in seeing the fight or the game. The amount of grey names compared to members in other streams is indicative enough of this. What you posted shows no real difference. You're really, really reaching here. Provide actual numbers or shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself.

All Ayame has to do to win the month is
>work as hard as in the past few months
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, NUMBERFAGS

Towa and Suisei's Grey and Blue. 1 million views after 7 days 8 hours on Twaps channel. Half the time of her fastest Million. Which was Palette at 15 days.
https://youtu.be/0firv69LkgI

>>15525432
Comparing the cost of a game and a twitter topic is asinine.
We have a ballpark estimate for how much it costs to develop a game.
There's no number online for how much it is to set up a twitter topic.

>Twitter topics, however, doesn't turn into income. Only exposure.
Exposure is how you expand your viewerbase and break into the mainstream.

Miko who is famous for having one of the highest retentions for SC readings of anyone is currently at 3k lol

>>15525533

>>15525352
My fear is not about marketability but whether they will even complete the game in any playable form in the first place. I know on the surface it looks like it shouldn't be that hard to make one. But these type of projects tend to be money blackholes and there are more examples of failures than successes for such things

>>15525432
Part of the reason for the game is also to do in game events (concerts and whatnot) with the Hololive talents or something.
Pretty ambitious but Yagoo seems to be blessed by the gods or something.

>>15525533
how can this dumb oni be so smart

>>15525533
psst, where are your kneels anons?

>>15525413
>>15525539
Pretty good, i think this is one of those covers that will keep having a good growth for a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UVUtXHOtV4

This ought to be interesting

>>15525413
Oops. There was someone else watching this number. I will leave my post up because I think its neat when compared to Palette's numbers

>>15524984
thanks anon, what surprises me is how almost nobody is alt-tabbing or keeping FBK stream on the background for some pauses. Surely most of her viewers were keeping her stream on a 2nd monitor/phone. But why can't they do the same when chuuba is fighting Sans? Something makes me think those spikes are english pc viewers unless pc only japs are insane enough to never alt-tab a shiny hunting stream

>>15525637
Not going to lie, this seems like a guest lineup that won't help a 3D live much.
Roboco, Aki, and Choco add nothing in regards of other fanbases coming in to watch them.

>>15525435
She lost members since her first Undershit stream. It is undeniable:
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/MoWkRxMpGUM
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/X91EGMMxwrc
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/W-BiX4k-2Bc
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/2CHqJIq-Nak

My beautiful, gorgeous, perfect, and wonderful Shark Queen is ready to take her throne as the #1 Vtuber!!!

>>15525725
show membership proof

>>15525602
you can throw any prototype on early access and sell it, no matter how barebones it is. and as long as holos will keep playing it, it will keep selling.

>>15525637
God the numbers had better be fixed by then, I'll be so mad if hime gets under 25k for a 3D

Shitty analysis that no one asked for but for the year+ experience i have watching this i got a feel for youtube chat speed and if you tell me Pekora's chat now is around 15-20k viewers (counting this type of game is more spammy in chat reactions) i would believe you. If it was being culled and had like 35k viewers there's no way i could read it.
Youtube loads all the comments live instead of chunks. With previous Pekora 35k streams it was a continuous flow that you had to stop to read well.

>>15525817
I dunno why you guys are so optimistic about this being fixed

>>15525627
AYAME SAMA!
>WINNING BY DOING LITERALLY NOTHING
I KNEEL!

Pekoschizo desperately trying to convince people that she lost members will never stop being funny

>>15525781
We will see anon, we will see. Yagoo seems to have high hopes on the project, nothing to do but trust his nose for success. But it would be fucking painful if this turns out to be his first bad decision

>>15525602
All they need to do is not make the scope big at launch. A few days of gameplay is enough.

>>15525781
This will do more damage to Cover's reputation than it'll be worth, if they release dogshit shovelware and make their talents play it.
Numbers will be bad too if the game sucks and the Holos have nothing to work with.

>YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE MADE FUN OF MY LIVE NUMBERS!
APOLOGIZE OR THE NUMBERS WILL NEVER INCLINE BACK!
>APOLOGIZE!

>>15525533
“Practice Not-Doing And Everything Will Fall Into Place.” - Lao Tzu
Never knew Ayame is a master of Taoism Wu wei...

>>15525678
There were lots of people tabbed out for Fubuki too, but you don't really have a hype moment for a shiny hunt, people aren't going to tab in at every magikarp. You can see lots of people tabbing in when she finally caught it tho.

>>15525951
I wonder if he doesn't expect people to look at the stats of her non undertale stream from today with less grey names...

>>15526008
You will go back to 1k

>>15526057
He's a sad existence that barely thinks ahead.
In fact he's arguably one of the worse schizos this thread ever had

>>15525951
Oh Pakora knows her membership numbers, trust me. You're delusional if you think this didn't make her lose at least a thousand.

stop replying to the schizo

>>15526057
>>15526161
It's funny that as soon as she pulled 20k+ with Undertale he immediately defaulted to trying to convince people that she lost members instead. The sheer desperation is hilarious.

>>15525980
You underestimate how much diehard fans will defend showelvare. People unironically think that Smol Ame is an good game.

>>15525189
Isn't that normal when it comes to sans runs? They always lose a bunch of views whenever she dies.

>trust me

>>15526316
Mental illness is a serious issue and >we must come together and pray for his salvation.

>>15525951
Best part is how he always makes sure to be at the top of the thread to make everyone aware of his autism.

>>15525980
I mean, Holo's regularly play absolute shit games and it doesn't hurt them much. If it fails it'll be a Country Roads type of situation where the talent make fun of it and move on

>>15525189
what are those tiny peaks in between the higher ones?

>>15526316
I wasn't even the one who brought it up originally. Someone else mentioned it in the previous thread and I was indeed noticing her chat having way more greys than normal. And 20k on Sans is still a pathetic number, Miko got 38k on him.

>>15526151
Granted, now everyone else gets 3 digits

>>15526472
I mean, almost everyone's numbers are pathetic right now but you're right.

>>15525533
Aqua is doing pretty well too by imitating Ayame's tactics.

>>15525533
>Pekora beat Niji MK in peak ccv
>Ayame defeat Toya in average/median peak
>Hololive take most gold medal this month
K-king rikun what do we do!

Symbol Currency Number of times Total for each currency Yen conversion total
WON KRW 61 1104900 107,049 yen
$ USD 15 325.98 37,468 yen
£ GBP 2 200.00 30,864 Yen
A $ AUD 7 110.00 9,136 yen
EUR EUR 3 12.00 1,558 yen

Kiara getting decent KR Sc's by simply responding in translated Korean to KR bros. She does have a knack for languages

>>15526675
Shion too. After getting a bunch of good numbers playing Pokemon and finishing early, she quickly fucked right off.

I believe in NoriPro.

>>15525189
>>15526349
Yeah, looks normal for a San run to me. At least, it resembles Kanata's months ago
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/Woly-KStjt0
or Flare
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/ogiRp9DaSP8
or FBK's non RTA San (less so, but Fubuki's was a full run)
https://holo.poi.cat/stream/7M7zyg3VR7E

>>15526910
I wonder where did the 774 fag went.

>Kanae is still streaming
What the fuck

so if there's an annual numbers cull, then numbers will have seasons? It's like a new patch except it only has depressing changes.

>>15527276
>8 hours of callins
My lord.

>>15527276
Only 100 liver more to go !

>>15527403
I will unironically kneel if he somehow manages to call every single NijiJP members, including the bottom 2-views, in one totsu

>>15527341
>December 2nd 2020 Patch
Due to an issue with potential spam viewers, we have implemented a 'spam view' checker to our CCV metric. Oh, sorry, this date was when this was implemented but we didn't say anything until December 26th. Our bad. We also included a waiting-room culling measure to ensure all users who are waiting are actual active users.

>August 2021
Upon review of the tactics of Beluga and Dream, we have decided that we need to add a rate-limiter to subscriber gain and verify the validity of subscribers to prevent issues of bots being used to cause subscriber growth to go viral. As such we have implemented a subscriber 'hold' to our algorithm to better represent the actual number of subscribers a person is gaining.

>December 27th 2021
?????
(Patch notes hidden, currently evaluating measures)

>>15527560
kiara...

/sp/artan here again. Yeah like I said in the previous thread Mcafee hasn't been hit at all, he's at his usual 31k. It's pretty clear at this point that whatever happened only affected Japan.

Roa's return stream will be #2 all-time in both CCV and superchats you can screenshot this

>>15527821
When ?

Pakora single-handedly killed all of sankisei

>>15527560
>streams from different times
anon please, this is the current nijien

>>15527821
If she's taking the rratmongerer to court and wins, she deserves it.

>>15527821
And I say max 80k viewers at most because Twitter numbers aren't indicative to whatever number Nijisanji will get on YouTube. Maybe a bit more since she'll surely talk about the drama in detail but no more than 100k.

>>15527821
And dislikes

>>15527876
gen 3...

>>15527875
>>15527876
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

>>15527875
Can't compare streams from different time periods?

>>15527611
Does she still have good SCs at least?

TimTheTatman's recent streams have all gotten to 40 or mostly 50k, he's currently at 32k after over an hour

>>15527876

2022 will be manjisanji year. the strongest gen is dead

>>15527995
Keep tracking anon
We need all big youtube streamers' numbers

>>15528100
How?
We all know only VOD views matter now

>>15527821
>He bought into twitter numbers meme
Yeah, it's not even gonna reach 100k

>>15528100
What about Myth?

>the most hyped gen 20k with suisei and shion
>Pekora almost 19k
>Marine 14.6k
>faggot here shitpost about pekora only
This thread is so fucking bad, I think we should stop making this thread for 2 weeks at least

>>15527891
Who will she bring to the court? Narukami and Meiro?

>>15528169
I'm sorry, but Gura alone is not 'All of Myth'.

>>15527995
Just looking at Playboard he seems completely consistent to his normal numbers. Whatever the change is, it doesn't seem to be affecting him. Idk maybe these streams would have been 50k without YT fuckery but he's a dead consistent 40k before and after Christmas.

>>15528168
Thread is fine, it's literally only one schizo that is easily ignored. Other anons have been doing some decent detective work regarding the supposed new cull.

>>15528238
all of 5ch

>>15528168
But she's fighting san buff

>youtube views bug
>kiara still at firm 4k views

i don't believe in any of those new youtube bugs

>>15528365
She got 5k last time

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Go Ojisan Go

>>15528168
It's simple, Pakora's yab killed hololive

>>15528610
Based retard

>>15528610
So does that mean nousagi have always been the one controlling Hololive?

THE CULL IS NOT REA-
>E-Emperor…

>>15528783
NOT MY WIFE HAL AAAAAAAA

>>15527983
She's still the 2nd biggest SC earner in EN but that's not saying much considering the SC's she got this month

>>15528783

Not like this, Hal-sama...

>>15527983
1k on USD so far
Most of them are from korean currency

man that's a lot of koreans in chiara chat

>>15529166
oh god oh fuck

>>15529166

>>15529166
Yes, we are aware. It was brought up as soon as the relay schedule was released. It's unfortunate for Gura, but it is what it is.

>>15527973
Retard.

>>15528715
YAGOO is a nousagi after all.

>>15529166
Get shit on, Sharky. You didn't have to jump into the relay that late.

>>15529166
I have no issue with this. Orca is the best member for this overlap, because her gachis will superchat her no matter what and she doesn't care about views. It would've been brutal, if it was Nene or Lui, but this is fine.

>>15529166
Prepare for "GURA KILLER" spam on the catalog tomorrow.

>>15527973
it's like comparing wilt vs jannies and dentists to modern day nba players

>>15529166
Gura 20-25k
Chloe 40-60k

>>15529322
No holo would lose to a karaoke for an outfit reveal though. It's a shame for Myth's numbers (since they have events so rarely) less than it is for the JPs who are getting their numbers no matter what.

>>15528783
Is this his nomal none APEX numbers?

>>15529424
Pretty much. Well maybe a little lower. But not by much.

>>15528932
Nah she's already up to 234K yen, which for a random Sims stream is pretty solid. But yes yen was the biggest portion. Kiara, Bae, Kronii, and Gura all have deep hooks in the Korean clipper channels they just need to pander a little more to really capture that audience.

>>15529411
If Kiara wasn't warned internally that new outfits will be revealed, Cover fucked up. If she was, and still scheduled the relay for this, then it's her fault. They could've literally scheduled a relay an hour earlier and Gura would've benefited from a waiting room buff.

>>15529166
only the final part of iroha and all of nenechi wont get overlapped with the many en karaokes. But i think those karaokes have 15 minutes of free space between them so it will be hard to say

>>15529638
Nene didn't even know about it, I'm guessing Kiara was not in the loop. Cover management does weird shit like that all the time for reasons that aren't clear to anyone

>>15529639
>karaokes have 15 minutes of free space between them
The fuck? Why?

Watamage boycotting Pekora's clear

>>15529752
I mean, it's just incompetence in communication and/or wanting to prevent leaks.
The first is possible, but we also know there are plenty of Holomem (LIKE KIARA) who have loose lips that could sink ships.

>>15529806
kiara is a numberfag that doesnt know how to numberfag

that russian spic people thought was going to be in council is becoming a vtuber i guess and already understands the most important part

>>15529638
Of course they're not warned. Holos end up moving streams around all the time when event stream announce a start date publicly

>>15529638
>>15529752
I think the issue here is, there will be an announcement for the EN in the end, if Gura isn't going to participate, it will be Ame or Calli's job to do the announcement and the overlap will kill even more viewers. So this makes me wonder how big is the announcement.

>>15529951
Anon, gura is going to participate in that relay and the overlap with the outfit reveals wont start until the last 15 minutes of mori's part

>>15529806
>>15529884
Kiara said it's for preventing EN curse...yeah I know it's dumb. Gura is going to do her own countdown before her part of the relay though iirc.

>>15529988
I know Gura is going to participate, which is good. But Kiara originally planned for Ame being the last because Ame is going to do a countdown stream afterwards, so it's likely that Ame was the original person to do the EN announcement.

>>15530212
Lui-nee...

800k as soon as the stream ends, peak was 25k, and the avg was 17-18k. Does this match?

>>15530212
im surprised tower is that low

>SC reading
>600 viewers
Wtf?

>>15530212
This is the only metric we need

>>15530318
Seems a tad sus, I'll be honest. If you had told me the stream had an average of 25-30k viewers for that duration...but at 17-18k...
Then again, perhaps the viewer churn was higher than usual due to the nature of a totsu and Niji having such disparate fanbases.

>>15530368
Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey Hi Honey

>>15529891
>russian spic
i hate correcting but she is spanish not spic(also not a vtuber yet and she has this info in her channel so not dox)

>>15530368
NijiEN has a strong sc game, views don't matter for them, Pomu almost never break 2k, and yet she is making more money than council.

>>15530212
another interesting thing about this is that chloe and laplus already have more than 1k artworks (no asterisk)

Kiara said the "announcement" at the end of EN relay is actually more like a notification.

>>15530609
It will be about the auditions for sure

>>15530647
She already mentioned the auditions in the same stream.

>>15530318
too high for a supposedly lower than 20k avg stream

>>15530647
1.Omega debut
2.EN 3D debut

>>15530318
The stream is almost 9 hours, looks legit for this average ccv. For example, Gura's last minecraft is 14k average lasting 5 hours and end up with 289k views right after the stream.

>>15530609
In order of likelihood
>Full En song
>Some information wrt auditions (but since Kiara already mentioned them this actually seems less likely)
>Some sort of EN event
>Omega Debut
>Myth 3d

what about comiket numbers?
vtubers vs the rest?

>>15530609
Maybe they got some game perms

>>15530961
i don't get why anyone thinks it has to do with the auditions since i can't remember them doing anything like that before

>>15530318
uhhhh, this is his 2nd highest non-musical VOD for viewer count
I suppose it IS possible for a 9 hour video, from what I remember of the Aqua apex grind vods are 800-1M+ were all high teens to low 20k CCV

>>15530318
Considering how long the stream was, I can believe it.

>>15530931
anon gura is not an example of normal views vs ccv

>>15529638
Warned internally for something she thought up just a few days ago? Hell if they just didn't have those 15 minute breaks in between then there'd be no overlap at all.

>>15530983
We'll have to rely on the nip bros for those, and there's still one more day for full numbers on that.

>>15530318
That's definitely too many views for that supposed CCV, I'll try to find a similar example

>>15529638
The girls have already said before that most of the time they’re not notified on anything. Just look at JP branch when there’s a slot overlapping a new costume and then they suddenly have to change time slot.

>>15529166
This is tough for Gura because her relay starts almost at midnight her timezone so her regular audience will be absent for a while

>>15531019
>>15530318
heres one example for comparison

>>15531425
I wouldn't be so sure, people still love new years count downs over the world and im sure a number of ronery weebs will opt in for HoloENs

>>15531486
Fuck this shitty website.

>>15531486
Youtube will kill vtubing in 2022, the first stage of their plan has begun.

>>15529166
SEAbud seething

>>15531686
more like killing numberCHADS, because we are too powerful for susan

>>15531721
> she fears no fag

what if Youtube did this shitty ccv cull because they thought it was required to counter the sudden bumps that the upcoming shitty new raids system will cause

>>15528610
>Pakora
I can't believe it. The FINAL YAB of Hololive.
Not Taiwan
Not Aloe
Not Chr*s
Not Mel's manager
Not the constant incompetence of management.
Not even Haachama's recent fin stream

>>15524517
>choco beat pegora
how the fuck...

>>15531824
>shits up their system even more when trying to fix another mess they had done
well, sounds like Jewtube all right

>>15531486
This looks fine, am I missing something? Additional hour accounts for better VOD views with lover CCV. Also, it was a totsu, people would switch on when their oshi calls and immediately switch off afterwards. Pokemon stream is just something you leave on your phone or your second monitor while you do other things.

So, say what you want of pizza dad in stars. Endurance subscriber stream shouting out the sub names is a smart move. He has the endurance for it as well. Should make it like a quarterly thing or something. First time he's working smart rather then just working.

>>15531905
subaru and luna had sex on stream

>>15531928
Not with such low ccv, unless Kanae's viewers are tabbing in and out like crazy, it doesn't make sense. Swapping in and out for a totsu is reasonable, but not to that extent.

>>15531686
Youtube owned vtuber will debut and be the only one not throttled.

>>15531930
How many subs he got so far?

>>15524517
don't worry peko will activate her peko of 6 paths soon

>>15531928
both totsu and shiny hunting are tab-out paradise since you only need to listen to it, no difference.
multiply the vod views to 7/8 to compare to 7 hour streams. That would make it little below 800k views, but the vod views are still processing - now its nearly 900k instead of 860k, and still rising. So in the end you got close vod views with stupidly lower ccv.

>>15532079
You don't need to listen to a totsu after your oshi leaves, you can just go watch something else. You do need to listen to Pokemon all the way, because you don't want to miss the pay-off.

>>15532045
A little over 3k so far, his last bumb was 1k / 4-5 days. He has a lot of stream left, but he wont reach his goal, since it's pretty crazy. But an optimistic goal might be 160k, a more reasonable one being 150-155k something.

Are Niji mamas moving over to Holos now?
https://twitter.com/sainexxx/status/1476128759967203329

>>15532147
you sound retarded, im not gonna debate your headcannons

>>15531980
i can't believe the subatomo had to watch as luna spent the last few months corrupting their oshi

>>15532226
>Niji mama
Anon have you been living under a rock for 6 months?

With all this fuckery and with even Nux Taku getting almost 2k, it might be time to move to Twitch for streams.

Pretty much the entire Vtuber tab has seen a 10-30% incline from the Vshojo appearance on Mizkaf's stream and the collabs that followed.

>>15532226
haha...

>>15532226
>Niji mamas
Artists paint to those who make a good offer. They don't work for a particular corporation.

>>15531486
Yeah okay shit's fucked, I've seen enough evidence now

>>15532399
>she/her
>FNAF
>2.7k viewers
grim

>>15524517
Shameful display from all parties involved

Sup numberfags. Can you explain to me why numbers have been so low lately? Did Susan do a cull 2.0 or something?

>>15532226
Only hololive has started the cult style meme of art mamas, although it has certainly worked out for them. Artists even go for hololive just cause they know they can leech their own channels to great heights.

>>15532399
anon, twitch is slowly dying as youtube poaches all its big streamers from their platform and copies all of their features, while providing much greater revenue

>>15532488
Pretty much, it's not just a simple cull like last time but fucked up shit is going on with viewcounts that's drastically lowering the JP numbers, jury is still out on how much it's affecting EN

>>15532547
If you were a (semi)successful streamer on Twitch, would you switch over to THIS?
>>15524517

Especially, for anything less than 4 million dollars a year?

>>15532238
No you. Pic related

>>15532703
Look all that matters is dollars in my pocket. Just depends which pays more. CCV doesn't really matter for Youtube revenue

>>15532609
Are there any estimates of how big the cull was already? Last years was something like a 30% drop iirc.

>>15531486
Seems pretty conclusive, it's happening on Niji's side too.

>>15532189
That's pretty good. It's a 24 hour stream, right? 160k might be lowballing it, especially since he has a totsu there near the end. I think, 170k is possible.

>>15532755
nice minecraft, what does it have to do with anything
and my pic is also a totsu

>>15532831
We don't know yet, it's harder to tell because last time it just cut a bunch of viewers off, with this it starts off fairly normally and then the number just suddenly stops growing even when it obviously should

>>15532703
The likelihood is that youtube, even though we hate on it here, will grow into being more then just the second bastard brother of streaming. Twitch is resting on their laurels at the moment, that will bite them in their ass.
If you were a twitch streamer that is not in their exclusivity program you should stream to multiple platforms.

there’s no cull, no women named “Susan”, it’s New Years month considered the biggest holiday in Japan.

Are we the only autists or has Japan also noticed the ccv issue?

>>15532952
yes, 24 hours, he has done roughly 9 hours now.

It's still morning in japan, so it might pick up pace, but I have a hard time seeing it surge to 170k or even 160k.

>>15533185
No

>>15529616
The girls can definitely benefit from pandering to Koreans but I don't know if Bae needs to do any more than she has already. Always takes time to read Korean SCs, sings K-pop songs in karaoke, Korean study lesson that actually has her writing down things by hand rather than using Duolingo. I guess the next level to this would be Korean-only zatsudan but I don't think her level is good enough for that

>>15533185
they did, we are a mirror reflection of each other after all.

>>15533183
This

New Years is probably the biggest traditional holiday in Japan. Stuff is actually open this year so people are going out and not watching youtube. That is why the numbers are down.

>>15533185
nip vtuber autists also have noticed it, idk about general population

>>15532995
>what does it have to do with anything
Similar metrics, another tab-out stream that people will want to listen to till the end.
Here's some Pokemon if you want, it's the same shit.
Koyori totsu is only 1 hour long.

>>15533396
This would be compelling theory if not for the fucky ccv graphs with strange plateaus.

>>15533149
I was thinking about that recently.
Streaming clearly isn't going away, but with the bigger market for shorts this year, it might be that YT heads won't see as much of a benefit to invest that much next fiscal year to finally absorb Twitch.

The Q1 2022 metrics showing a BIG decline in live stream viewers across "Youtube Gaming" might be the tipping point in making that decision, if this bullshit isn't fixed.

Of course, they have other internal metrics, but these, the ccv, watch hours, etc. will be the ones available to new investors, streamers and advertisers.

>>15533243
Oh yeah, it's part 2. I thought he just started.

>>15533523
Don't forget the
"same amount of likes live as previous streams, but 1/2 the viewers"

basically, actual audience participation is the same as last few weeks, it's just the CCV that dropped.

https://youtu.be/J2nMpqwaPIM
https://youtu.be/zoynMroawZw
Holokiller

>>15533725
I will laugh when this doesn't break 50k and nijisisters will start crying about a new cull.

>>15533725
This is the most likely to win New Years Eve yes.

Anon, i don't care who, i just want a 100k stream again!!

>>15533787
If there are more than 100k, then the new cull does not exist?

>>15533870
Personally, if this stream breaks 100k, I will admit that the new cull is just a cope.

how do we fix susan? why does she hate big numbers?

>>15533183
>>15533396
See >>15531486
Unless youtube is being nice enough to count some subscriber's symbolic presence as a VOD view for their oshi, I don't think that's the full story.

>>15533185
They're making fun of Pekora as we speak.

I'm surprised how big of an effect this Korean clip had, doubt they will stick around, but it's pretty impressive regardless

>>15533870
What was the CCV peak last year?

>>15533725
If this break 100k and holos have shit numbers again this will mean that hololive is dying. If not then either culling or half of Japan just suddenly died (or went to their families like burgers on thanksgiving).

>>15534172
If the new cull is real, there will be fewer viewers

>>15524217
How long until Gooruh reach 4mil? I see her has 3,7mil today

>>15531486
its totsu, 767,703 for 9 hours is normal.

>>15534172
>>15533787
Lat music fest on Mikoto's channel
>117k
https://playboard.co/en/video/A6jnAB4c7xQ
New Years one last year had
>127k
https://playboard.co/en/video/AoFnsVUzVbE

>>15534346
April if she doesn't slow down, since she has a mori collab song, if she puts out one more song in addition to that before April she will hit it.

>>15525549
Mihoyo spent 10 million to get their emotes on twitter. Setting a topic would be around the same maybe?

>>15534295
Hum, cull asides, the members this time are weaker and there are 2 parts, I think it won't reach 100k. Who knows.

ina 5k get

>>15534454
why so lo-
>mario party
of course...

>>15530368
I don't quite get it, what's wrong, or surprising about Nina getting 600 viewers for her SC reading stream? Seems about right to me. Neither too many, nor too few with her usual CCV

I can't wait to see holonigs sneeding like maniacs when there is no evidence of the cull tonight.

>>15534443
>Kanae, Kuzuha, Toya, Fuwa, Maimoto, Sultan, Yashiro, Hayato, JK Gumi
>members this time are weaker
Y-yeah

>>15534454
>>15534484
Even then, it's her lowest viewed non-member stream... ever?

I went back 6 months and lowest others were 5.5k at least.
By far the lowest viewed of the month, when she was consistently getting 9k recently for this hour.
Arguably yesterday's underperformed given the theme.

>>15533999
My conspiracy theory is Youtube do something to numbers so they are will be equal or even lower than Ludwig. Youtube doesn't want foreign anime thing bigger than their new big acquisition
My normal theory is some small fuck up from Youtube and New Year incoming decreased the number

What are the chances of filling a lawsuit against Google regarding the cull issue? We know Google has a history regarding abuse of power and shady practices with plenty of lawsuit against them already.

>>15534786
Mario party as a solo game is a debuff, that game is made for collabs

>>15534894
They'll send them to reeducation camp. Anycolor and Cover are $60~ million dollar companies, basically fleas. Both could get bonked tomorrow permanently and it'd mean nothing to Google.

>>15533725

it would be funny if the two streams got more than the holo new years one

>>15534786
Lazyposting, but her lowest numbers by far were Bastion. I remember averages below 5k, and this Mario Party's already outperforming that.

>>15533553
I agree with a lot of what you say, but youtube are so big that they have the ability to do multiple things. Not saying they will do it "good" but they have different teams focusing on shorts vs gaming.
One thing worth noting as well with Youtube Gaming is that it's not all of Youtubes livestreaming, it's just one of it's categories (sure probably the best one for discoverabilty, which is a joke in itself). Usally in many big platform comparisons Twitch is compared to Youtube Gaming, why? I honestly don't know.

>>15531015
45 minutes seems a long time for all of them too. Just do 30 minutes each, it's a couple songs each, a bit of chat and then pass off.

>>15529638
what? its literally the same time as the last one. Her fault for scheduling it.
https://prtimes.jp/main/html/rd/p/000000332.000030268.html

What could be the arguments and reasons for the cull?
Arguments:
>Likes
>VOD
>JP vtubers had only bigger numbers during holidays throughout the year

Reasons:
>YT doesn't want to pat creators as much?
>Culling every non region viewer to better reflect Company demand for ad buyers?

On the other hand arguments against the cull:
>It's just post Christmas holidays in Japan so salarymen are spending their time with their family in countryside
>Interest in Vtubing died overnight

>>15529639
>15 minutes of free space
Holy fuck Kiara is fucking dumb

Pomu has technical problems.

>>15534748
>Maimoto, Iburahim
>strong
>for a fucking music event
Holy mother of retardation.

>>15535545
There are conversational parts

>>15535341
That's retarded, absolutely nobody were expecting gen6 to get new years outfit this soon

Speaking of New Year's
Look at this ugly ass graph for Holo's event last year.

>>15535589
So? That shit got 100k last year because it was a high quality music event with good singers, they added a bunch of fuckers that can't sing, this shit is going to flop with cull or not.

>>15534363
nobody is doubting the vod views, the lower ccv is what is suspicious (ccv numbers have fallen but vod views have not)

>>15535358
>YT doesn't want to pat creators as much?
Decent argument in my eyes. Why would Youtube want big creators that will then go and get sponsorships behind their back, instead of army of smaller ones, where advertisers are forced to use their targeted add platform to get any benefits.

>>15535358
>YT doesn't want to pat creators as much?
Does CCV matter at all for that though?
Are VOD numbers going down as well?

>>15535706
I remember it being laggy as fuck so no surprises there

>>15535738

Yeah. When I saw Kanae was going to do a totsu for sure it was gold of the day, but 25k peak was really low honestly. It had the novelty of being the first totsu he hosts in 3 years of vtubing and not a lot of people in NijiJP were streaming at that moment to have a big overlap

>>15534172
https://twitter.com/2434rankings/status/1343893964571570179?lang=en

>Culling every non region viewer to better reflect Company demand for ad buyers?
If they actually do that, manjisanji EN is fucked

>>15534985
She playing with viewers which is usually a buff since people will tune in for a shot at playing with her.

>>15536047
shes barely changing the participants though

>>15534985
Watch stream takokeks, she is playing with takodacuck

>>15535875
>Does CCV matter at all for that though?
Only for YT Premium revenue

>>15524517
>Gold below 30k
>Pekora below 20k
kek. and people are complaining that 30k Pekora and 40k gold is way too low just 2 weeks ago. the numbercull is based. anons here had way too much fun with the late nov-early december fat numbers.

So HoloKR (bootleg version) is doing well, and there's plenty of KR interesting in Hololive proper. If you are Yagoo do you: 1) keep the status quo 2) allow collabs 3) debut HoloKR officially and compete 4) buyout the smaller company?

>>15536486
step 2 and then 3 seem to be the more appropiate way of doing it imo. Allowing collabs can give you a bit more of information and see if there's more koreans interested in holo than the current ones and with the collabs to see if they are willing to watch streams, if all goes well then debuting holoKR would work

Oh jesus she's still going... someone please save this girl

>>15536486
Keep it as is.
1. KR numbers are nowhere near what EN had prior to official branch.
2. Omega was trusted by Cover and Yagoo as he/she worked as translator.
3. KR and JP viewers don't overlap as much as JP and EN. ID is practically EN lite.

>>15536486
HoloKR would flop for the sole reason that Cover moves at a glacial pace.
This korean group is constantly putting out content which lets them keep their momentum with the backing of their management.
Look at EN, Cover themselves have barely done shit. It's mostly up to the talents to keep things interesting and management might as well not exist other than to reject ideas.

Youtube hates Pomu for some reason. Her viewers count is jumping like crazy.

>>15536893
Her stream dropped, so many of her viewers jumped to Finana's stream

>>15536778
You're a bit outdated. Holo X doesn't seem to suffer from the usual Cover smarr indie company.
I don't care about the dud HoloEN gen2.

https://youtu.be/eXQK45AcMoU

>will start streaming in the middle of the relay

nice one ame, get the viewers!

>>15536981
let's see if this stream and the karaoke can save her numbers for this month

>>15536972
>main branch
HoloKR would never get that kind of special treatment

>>15536972
you arent disproving his point though

>>15536486
>debut HoloKR officially and compete
honestly, no harm in this. If Holo JP could pay for 6 chinese chuuba back in the day when hololive was way smaller, they can easily pay for 3 korean ones as well. if it flops, just graduate the branch, not that big of a deal.

>>15536486
Test out a Korean stream with the multi-linguals you already have on staff.

>>15537153
My sides

shion with a guerrilla morning stream
really weird time.
3k in 10min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj42ZQ3p53A

>>15534894
Cover's and Anykara's yearly revenue is about 1/10 of what Google earns in ad revenue in a single day. Good luck suing Alphabet.

>>15537430

stream barely growing with 0 jp overlap...

>>15537465
I mean we have plenty of stories where an individual sued a big company and won.
I dont see why Cover should loose.

>>15537514
i dont think we have info on shion for this kind of timeslot and stream
she heading to 5k might be normal. Other streams at this time usually hit that like iroha or koyori.

>>15525064
Anon, if you want to increase you audience reach, at some point, word of mouth is not going to be enough. I believe we may have already reached this point given our understanding of the "holo sub wall" (somewhere between 500k and 700k subs).

>>15530368
$3k from playboard alone kek and anons said she'll lose gachis when she collabs with men. NijiEN too strong

>>15537430
The last Shion stream not to get 10k was in August, sure the weird time means I wouldn't expect this one to but starting to stall at 3k? Really?

>>15537465
>in a single day
more like in a single hour

>>15537599
Her last morning stream

Heard Ludwig was talking about his lower than usual viewer count and sure enough,
>17k in 45 minutes
Usually at 22-25k by this point
https://playboard.co/en/video/vfeuR0b8Bo8
https://playboard.co/en/video/f_SgOpRuRPw

Not nearly the 1/2 viewers of the JP, ID and TW streamers are seeing though.

>>15537599
shion at any time with zero competition should be above 10k

>>15537684
is still rising but slowly. and it is ACTUALLY 31st so there is that too. And likes are half oer viewership right now yet.
i still think we need to wait after new year to see how numbers behave and see if this isnt just a one week thing

>>15537430
You can spot the exact moment when some shenanigans happen and the CCV growth rate decreases abruptly.

>>15537754
Ludwig, please get youtube to fix this shit.

These are some pathetic numbers, Zion yo...

>>15537904
nah he mention that the live stream section of youtube doesnt have enough info. You can see how many hours you have streamed, watchtime, etc. But does have a nice memebers graph.

>>15537688
Newfriends don't know Youtube is in the red for billions yearly please understand

>>15537904
so... any change in Ludwig's ccv behavior, or is it a vtuber/japan issue?

>>15538027
is still gorwing albeit slower than yesterday

>>15537745
And every other morning stream on Holostats
I can accept a slight decrease because of New Year but 4.6k after 25 minutes?

even at a time like this, Shion would get more than 4k.
Koyori had 5k at this exact time, Either it's a super debuff of RIJ/Comiket/People not watching V due to family friends time or Youtube have seriously fucked something up.

V-Tubers don't just lose viewers like this in a blink of an eye.

Pakora thanos'd hololives viewers

>>15538202

war criminal...........

>>15538120
I would believe on people not watching because of the Comiket if it was just on the daylight, but the problem is in both day and night.
I don't wanna say culling but something weird is going on.

>>15538120
>>15538229
see >>15531832

Whatever youtube did, the chances of them going back on it is practically zero, so you might as well start getting used to this as the new normal. Comparing numbers between livers doesn't really change if it affects everyone equally. All you need to do is figure out the effect of the cull as precisely as possible for comparing with past streams.

>stalls just before hitting 5k
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

shion ccv stalling at the exact 30 minutes mark, like the others

>>15538120
comiket has way less people this year and people can still listen on their phones even if they're traveling or hanging around outside

https://twitter.com/Y_Mokko/status/1476416446498549767

>>15528610
I've been living under a rock. What did the bunny do this time?

>>15538315
might as well start comparing vod views after 1 hour/1 day/1 week

>>15538372
not streaming on christmas and christmas eve

>>15538372
She slapped Jun in front of chat.

>>15538443
f-family is important...

>>15538315
doesnt look like its hitting everyone equally, although its clearly something thats hitting JP harder this time, maybe related to mobile viewers

>>15538372
She got beat up by the thot patrol

>>15538315
>it affects everyone equally
I have every reason to believe this is not the case. Youtube heads are fucking assholes

>>15538492
yeah, me

>>15538346
i think is becasue the others started streaming.
iroha just started jumpking now

kanae 4k as well

Hey Numberbros, watching Ame's stream and the waiting room went from 2800+ to 800 when it started. I know YouTube cuts when a stream officially starts, but I've never seen one that massive before. Has Youtube been culling more viewers recently?

>>15538557
Yeah, Ina actually started losing viewers.

>>15538584
>but I've never seen one that massive before
Culling that hard is normal. Not rebounding in 10 minutes or so is the novelty

>>15538584
Just read the thread from the bottom up. That's pretty much what everybody's discussing.

>>15538584
It does seem like the initial waiting room cull is deeper and takes longer to recover than it was before, that's just part of the funky shit going on right now

>>15538372
the dream...

>>15538584
That's not even the biggest I've seen.

iroha and ame ccv right now = 4.1k, they started at the same tiem right?
but iroha has 9k vod views
while ame has 7k vod views
wtf did they overdo the culling for jps now?

>>15538557
It would make sense if she lost a few viewers then, but she didn't lose anyone or gain anyone, just stay hovering around the 5k mark barely moving above or below it. Her graph is just as flat as her chest.

>>15538757
Honestly, such a small difference over such a small time is barely relevant for drawing any conclusions.

So holosisters, how do we cope if Nijisanji gets 120k tonight?

>>15538757
may be something to do with the way their audience watches yt (mobile, 3rd party apps, etc)

I swear some higher-up at youtube/google is an en shart and has it enough.

>>15538847
anon, that'd be a recline for NJU. Their events have gotten more CCV all year and this NJU is a much bigger event than last time and it cleared 119k.

So.. Shion hit 5k some minutes ago. I got curious and went to check holostats. The last time she struggled below this line was 11 months ago in a Apex stream with Ayame and Yomi. All her other streams after that got at least more than 5k and with way faster grow

holobros...

>>15538962
You know what I mean, if there is no evidence that the cull is there. I am thinking this is pure holocope for lost interest.

>>15538905
>some higher-up at youtube/google is an en shart and has it enough
yeah ENschizo, that higher up is a diehard ENfag that culled the JP's hard in this culling and now the EN's are going to suddenly have 100K CCV in normal streams, 1M on events, giving back the culled subs from council and gifting them the amount they removed as an apology

ame vod views on left, iroha vod views on right
ame`s makes jumps but usually does not drop, while iroha`s does those fucking weird spikes where they jump up but immediately lose some

>>15539019
>there is no evidence that the cull is there
One stream outside of the pattern doesn't nullify all of the other evidence. Tribalism is fun and all, but you'd have to be retarded to think there isn't something fishy going on.