/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

based?

>>13425169
>exploits
How exactly is it "exploiting" me? Does the bakery down the street also "exploit" my want to eat a muffin? Exploitation is your boss taking from your minimum wage paycheck to further his already insane pay, not me fuckin donating freely to a woman on the internet.

>>13425235
nah. they love me

No shit. When life is fucking miserable, a pleasant lie is often the best you can hope for. I already know I'm NGMI.

>>13425510
it's the communist equivalent of the radical first wave feminism: "ALL SEX IS RAPE".
There is no ethical consumption, don't you know?

>>13425510
>Does the bakery down the street also "exploit" my want to eat a muffin?
If you are hungry and there's only one food store around and it price gauges you that is exploitation
Even if you assume you had little tasteless pellets that prevented you from dying from hunger but you kept all other symptoms, it'd still be exploitation

>>13425169
Ive been saying this shit since the beginning. But save your breath theyre happy living in their lie with the simps that donate to normal twitch thots too

>>13425658
There are companies besides hololive
There are vtubers that aren't corporate
You have options. Many of them.

>>13425169
Yes and many Vtubers who do parasocial shit aren't that different from twitch whores. This is why the ones who really care about kayfabe and differentiate themselves are the best

>>13425169
Still better than greedy twitch thots. At least I got an illusion she cares about me in return.

>>13425169
virgin take

>>13425658
Is Hololive Nestle price gauging clean water in third world countries while fucking over public eater supplies? Are you seriously telling me that anime girls on the internet are exploiting me like that?

>>13425169
Yes, I am a lonely woman

>>13425714
Are you deliberately misinterpreting the argument, its not vtubers to watch that's in short supply it's what people want

>>13425845
Who is your oshi?

>>13425169
You're right, OP. Noel is a menhera whore.

>>13425839
public water* supplies

>>13425839
>Is Nestle an exploitative corporation
Worse, Hololive is giving you sand that tastes like water while thirsty when you can't get any water

>>13425927
why are fag fans of other vtubers like this.

>>13425927
>Hololive is worse than Nestle
You're more deranged than the schizos who think they'll marry their oshi

>>13425882
>Noel is a menhera whore
Finally, people are waking up to her manipulative ways.

>>13425169
fandeads will defend this while their oshi is biggest money earner in Hololive

>>13426012
>I can't address the argument so let me fish for a sentence I can take out of context to call them schizo
ogey

>>13425845
Tits or GTFO.

>>13426044
her boobs and cute voice cancel out the bed

>>13426100
you write like a retard, is your brain filled with cum?

But I watch Anya. There is nothing parasocial about her.

>>13426044
Noelfags are the largest cucks on this board. Imagine defending a literal titty streamer who sells pictures of her ass and titties.

>>13426100
So you don't think Hololive is worse than Nestle? For the record.

>>13425169
Yes I love my wife Noel

>>13426148
ah it's SEA hours

>>13425849
>what they want
wtf they want? cute anime girls? there's plenty

>>13426137
address argument or I stop giving you attention

>>13426220
its literal nonsense. I have made married women have multiple orgasms. I don't need female attention.
Hololive is full of special women.

>>13426149
Obviously not
worse can apply in multiple ways, the deception of Hololive is more deceptive than Nestle but the scale and the scope of the deception is much less
It doesn't have to be worse than Nestle in every way or even any way to be bad and its not just Hololive

>>13425169
Tell me something I don't know

>>13426192
Do you have absolutely no shame or pride? Why not watch a vtuber that doesn't whore herself out on the side while both pretending to be lesbian and doing GFE at the same time? There are plenty of other options you know.

>>13426204
>wtf they want?
are you retarded
why do you think people fall for parasocial relationships

>>13426283
you must be over 18 to post here

>>13426306
>she shows herself on camera and isnt wearing a burqa, what a whore
kek. anyway she's adorable and funny
>>13426363
cope

Vtuber industry exploited my masculine desire for competition. I don’t want GFE, I simply wish to see my Oshi crush all other Oshi’s.

>>13426427
>cope
you must be over 18 to post here

>>13426498
cope

>>13425169
>This thread again
Also I watch mainly GFE girls and haven't been able to donate a single membership or SC so no it only exploits stupid men not single ones

>>13426287
Ok. So Hololive is more deceptive. I am going to ask you, what are they decieving you with? As far as I can tell, if this is a commercial transaction, you get exactly the product you are given. They give livestreams. The content is the livestream. There is nothing else for sale. The product is the livestream (you even get that for free btw). There is no deception involved. Are you paying for their feelings behind the scenes? No, you're paying for the vtuber's streams, and there can't be any deception because the streams are the content as is. If you are sold a painting, and it turns out the artist hated making the painting, is that deception? All you see, and all you paid for, is the work of art, the painting, the livestream, the Vtuber character. There's no decieving here. You got what was advertised.

>>13426427
She sells videos of her ass while wearing nothing but panties and licking the mic. That cannot be equated to a woman not wearing a burqa.

>>13426512
>cope
you must be over 18 to post here

>>13426543
its the same as equating it to sex for money

There is no such thing as exploitation when it comes to consuming entertainment.
No, that vtuber is not forcing you to donate
No, that gacha game is not forcing you to roll
No, that subscription service is not forcing you to upgrade to a more expensive tier
You just have no control.

>>13426589
She sells her body out for money, that makes her a whore.

>>13426633
no its ASMR, she has one 3 months ago on Noel's channel with over 2million views.
it's also just panties you mega indog virgin

>>13426633
if you work you're selling your body for money too

>>13425169
cool, I guess I'm not a lonely man since I have only gotten free entertainment

>>13426718
ASMR while showing off her ass and titties. She's a camwhore.
>>13426720
Not the same thing and you know it. At least use an actual argument.

>>13426786
>she's not wearing a burqa
same argument again, faggot

>>13426786
It is the exact same thing and already the ancients knew it. Start with the Greeks already, you dirty pleb.

>>13426529
>its only exploitation if the person never ever consents to anything involved
no thats just called forcing people to do something
also
>Are you paying for their feelings behind the scenes?
gonna lie and say that people arent and that tons of vtubers dont advertise themselves "selling" basically exactly that?
you cant buy feelings though but you can do stuff conducive to getting simps and those simps will be getting exploited, you just prey on the losers of the psychological numbers game

>>13426815
There is a massive difference between being dressed normally and selling videos of yourself in lacy bra and panties.

>>13425510
well yes, depending on them spiking the bread with sugar, they are exploiting you through addiction friend.
take a nutrition/health class once in a while before you make comparisons :)

>>13426489
based and competitionpilled

>>13426883
>being dressed normally
kek dumb muslim

>>13426847
women making money by selling sexual things is as dishonorable as kicking a dude in the balls in a fight

>>13425169
i pay all women who make me coom.

I feel, if anything, less lonely and only moderately ashamed.

>>13427017
but that's retarded

>>13426916
You're purposely misinterpreting what I'm saying. There is a vast spectrum between dressing like a sand nigger and being almost naked. She could dress normally in her ASMR, but instead she wears almost nothing. That makes her a camwhore. So I ask again, why not watch someone who isn't a camwhore?

>>13425872
picture

>>13427081
no thats called a relationship

>>13427086
you're worse than a sand nigger, you could fed their beliefs and suckled on it like a retard.
>instead she wears almost nothing.
if it wasn't blocked in your country, you'd know what camwhores actually are.

>>13426994
>kicking a dude in the balls in a fight
>dishonorable

>>13427086
You've already been exposed stop wasting our time

I thought this board was hyperboling when they said SEA shitpost here but here we are.

>>13425169
>that is undeniable fact
I deny your fact because it isn't actually a fact and you're just a gay retarded niggerfaggot shitposting on the internet. No exploitation occurs because chuubas and lonely men both understand the parasocial dynamic and consent to it. Now cast yourself into Hell you homosexual filth.

>>13426608
>There is no such thing as exploitation when it comes to consuming entertainment.
ogey
>forcing
not in the definition of the word exploitation
>You just have no control.
if it wasn't me it'd be somebody, me being retarded is my choice but somebody being a retard is a guarantee
in big numbers humanity isnt about free will its statistics but that doesnt mean its okay to treat the losers of the numbers game as deserving of their fate, because it was always going to be somebody if it wasnt them

>>13427194
E-thot, titty streamer, camwhore. Whichever word you want to use to describe her, it makes no difference. She shows off her ass and titties on video and sells it for money. That is a fact. Answer my question, why do you choose to watch someone who sells their body for money? Why not choose to watch someone who isn't only slightly above a STD riddled hooker?

>>13427238
Oh sorry I didn't know I was talking to a fatherless faggot

>>13426044
Really, it was an eye opener on how she strings alongside lonely men, pretending to give them a chance to date her.

>>13427330
>lonely men both understand the parasocial dynamic and consent to it
which is why there is never outrage

>>13426858
What moral framework do you have? Look, as far as I can tell, within either a standard Capitalist perspective or a standard Marxist perspective there's no exploitation going on through Vtuber livestreams (if you actually cared about exploitation you would argue about the people who get their labour exploited making merchandise, but nobody ever talks about them, because these are just provocative attacks on people who like anime girls as opposed to a consistent moral framework). You are saying that there are girls that do sell their feelings behind the scene. Do you have any proof that those girls are actually deceiving you? That they aren't in a parasocial relationship back? Otherwise you're just assuming someone is getting duped. Because as far as I can tell, Hololive as a whole doesn't sell that, they sell Vtuber characters and acts. You'd have to take issue with individual girls and also have evidence that they are indeed deceiving their audience and lying besides the assumption that they must be deceiving their audience. Show me evidence for someone who pretends to be selling their feelings behind the scenes, where they advertised that they were selling their true feeling, and any evidence that it is not they are true feelings, evidence they are also lying and hate their audience behind the scenes,

>>13427331
It is okay to call them deserving of their fate. Having no control is your own fault. No one forces you to be a bystander. You are not a puppet.

>>13425169

But Noel's and a certain related person's thot-ery are purely delightful. I'm pleased to offer my support.

>>13425169
Miko is more than a gf though so it's fine

>>13427334
Neither of those fit. I live in a country where if it's not winter, then it's bikini and speedo time for everyone. Not my problem you live in some silly place and are cumming to the sight of an ankle.
>Answer my question
I watch her because excluding her great talent at ASMR, she is extremely sweet, funny and kind. She gets invested in what she plays and the games she does play are often fun to watch.
Giant titties on her roommate is just the cherry on top.

if anything i exploit her

>>13426885
Which country are we in? As far as I can tell, spiked with sugar is the standard for all foods in America, the muffin is no less addicting than anything else, so that's a moot point. If we're in the majority of Europe, they aren't spiking my muffins with sugar anyway. No idea about how SEA or South America operates.

>>13425169
i heckin love Danchou!

>>13427519
Moaning sexually into a microphone while rubbing lotion on your almost bare ass is not the same as wearing a bikini you absolute mongoloid. Also, there are many vtubers with better personalities that don't whore themselves out, why not watch them instead?

>>13425169
I was lonely before I got into Vtubers, now I'm lonely but entertained

>>13427645
they dont do it like danchou does

>>13427444
>Do you have any proof that those girls are actually deceiving you? That they aren't in a parasocial relationship back?
this is the only one that is fine but still maybe a little sad, but at least they can be sad together
>Show me evidence for someone who pretends to be selling their feelings behind the scenes, where they advertised that they were selling their true feeling, and any evidence that it is not they are true feelings, evidence they are also lying and hate their audience behind the scenes,
festival copypasta'd apology about never betraying her fans months before za hando incident
>Because as far as I can tell, Hololive as a whole doesn't sell that, they sell Vtuber characters and acts.
ogey EOP

>>13427577
Flip here, most bakeries here do jack shit about taste unless it's a foreign brand or one of those order online from a facebook group type of muffin.

>>13427645
>Moaning sexually into a microphone while rubbing lotion on your almost bare ass is not the same as wearing a bikini you absolute mongoloid
Yeah it is, girls rub lotion on their bodies all the time in public.

>>13427645
forgot about
>Also, there are many vtubers with better personalities that don't whore themselves out, why not watch them instead?
Not true, you're just a biased faggot. There are very few vtubers with better personalities.

>>13427772
Cont. the home made vape E-liquids on the other hand has some really High levels of nicotine on the average, specially the ones that has a pastry flavor or imitates a certain kind of candy

>>13427645

In fact, it's even better. Especially when _____ doe so!

>>13427457
seeing a crowds as the individuals instead of a statistical distribution of behaviors is dogma
in a big enough group there will always emerge a loser, if you disagree lets bet money on it

>>13427725
ガイジ確定やん
はやく死ね

>>13427696
no such thing as a person who can't be entertained by anything except vtubers

>>13425845
Tits or become a chuuba.

>>13428055
too many negatives your sentence is trash

>>13427971
I don't think you're even reading my posts. I'm not betting on the fact that losers exist, I am pointing out that every loser has the chance to not spend money on a vtuber or other entertainment, they are not being FORCED TO aka EXPLOITED.

>>13425169
well maybe if real women weren't so shit we wouldn't need them now would we?

>>13428095
>too many negatives your sentence is trash
He replied, while using a run-on sentence.

Been planning to unmember on some vtubers recently too, the badge ain't worth the price and they rarely do member content after the paywalling purge of certain nintendo games.

If you don't like Noel roommate and use the buzzword "camwhore" you are a homo. Simple as, she is a virgin and a pure girl.

>>13428273
who cares faggot what's actually important is how digestible the sentence is, these words aren't being written to please Victorian faggots

>>13428010
you should know better then
who do you watch, Choco Towa and Fubuki or smthn? most girls said stuff like "I'm your girlfriend" or "think of me as your girlfriend" or "youre my boyfriend" or w/e

>>13428322
>Simple as, she is a virgin and a pure girl.
>Noel
>Virgin
>Pure
She’s a whore.

>>13428177
they are forced to exist because there is no timeline where they dont exist
if an outcome is never going to happen and you can guarantee that, it is is physically impossible
if an outcome is physically impossible, it is by definition forced

>>13425169
that's fine. I'll donate and whatever for my parasocial crap as long as they hold up their end of the deal and stay single + don't shit on their audience. that said I only really give a shit about boyfriend crap for my oshi and a couple others.

>>13428472
t.retard

>>13428095
why should I give you attention?

>>13428516
address argument

>>13428517
you're that faggot? shut the fuck up and kys, put your attention towards that. Immediately.

>>13428446
Don't make me spam your bait thread, homo

the amount of cope and denial in this thread made my night thanks cucks

>>13428627
(you)

>>13428566
oh no I took the last word
scary
make sure to get it back anon

>>13428472
What the fuck are you talking about you faggot I'm talking about people blaming their lack of impulse control on their entertainment. What does this have to do with that?

>>13427107
CUTE

bye faggots
https://youtu.be/zo0lOmVx9Lc

>>13428604
She will never sleep with you.

>>13425169
>vtubing industry exploits lonely men
If you lack self-control and what not, then you VOLUNTARILY allow the exploitation

>>13428747
and im telling you that when you talk about people talking about what each person does to describe people is not normal
kinda like saying that its the fault of the crab at the bottom of the buckets fault for being at the bottom, you cant have no crab at the bottom, if something is always going to be that way free will doesnt factor into it unless you think it matters which crab it is(but it doesnt)

>>13428818
definition of exploitation does not contain the word force

why is donating to female streamers considered bad but donating to male streamers is ok
isnt that sexist

>>13428932
anybody who differentiates between the two is retarded, streamers will talk openly about psychological tricks they find that work to get people to spend more

>>13428849
Your first sentence is unreadable.
The rest of it has nothing to do with what I said. Vtuber watchers are not crabs at the bottom of a bucket. Your analogy is more fitting for people who are forced to take on unsavory jobs due to having a mental disability or something. There is no societal pressure in the world that causes someone to be at the end of their rope and think "I must akasupa my oshi, or else"

>>13425169
>all
>>13425849
>people

>>13425169
Merchant sells what the cattle buys.

>>13428414
I'm saying the Hololive company is selling characters, acts, and kayfabe. What a Hololive girl says, as "Korone", is her feelings as Korone. Probably her feelings not as Korone anyway, but when Korone is making a cult where you love Korone and give her your fingers and don't watch other women, is she selling you on a relationship with her roommate? It should be obvious that while her love isn't a lie or deception, it's not "love" in a traditional romantic sense. You're not being ripped off. Which girls are actually selling being you girlfriend as a roommate? Literally only one and she's actually menhera enough to believe it. The rest are, at the end of the day, an "act" even if the feelings are real to a large extent. They're not a character in terms of a rather well thought out act or deception, I mean, they are at the end of the day playing a role for their audience and fulfilling the role. You are getting the role you were advertised. People who can't tell what they're "buying" in the first place are the only ones getting scammed; but are they the ones donating massive amounts of money? The ones watching everyday and listening to everything their oshi says, should actually know what their oshi thinks about them and what extent to the feelings actually are, to what extent it's just playing the "role". Really, just who is getting exploited? Most of the people who donate, are doing it out of thanks. Because their oshi gave them something. It's not some sinister fucking plot on the girls plot to drip the viewers dry of all their money. A lot of the members often advise their viewers not to donate too much. Both the viewers and the hololive member get something out of it, the viewers are under no obligation to donate, and the people who donate the most should understand their oshi the most from watching her and presumably her roommate. Really, who are the people getting exploited? Who?

>>13426489
Kinda based

>>13429131
your post reminds me I haven't told Rushia I love her in a while, should send her a SC

>>13425169
>Spends hours crafting content
>watch and enjoy
>torrent paywalled shit
The exploited deserve it.

>>13429131 (me)
I sort of drifted off and forgot to edit my first sentence; but I meant for the first sentence, the company itself is selling kayfabe and in the clear, even if the girls themselves are mostly their authentic selves. They can both be authentic and lean into a role of "girlfriend" without being deceptive, you are getting them as a "girlfriend" as a Vtuber, you are getting the product on stream, they are not selling you their roommate.

>>13425658
thank god vtubers are free then.

>>13429131
>It should be obvious that while her love isn't a lie or deception, it's not "love" in a traditional romantic sense
irony of saying this while using Korone and her roommate as an example is astronomical
also
>It should be obvious
lol
>People who can't tell what they're "buying" in the first place are the only ones getting scammed; but are they the ones donating massive amounts of money?
>Most of the people who donate, are doing it out of thanks.
this is the first thing in this entire thread that I can and will genuinely call cope
>The ones watching everyday and listening to everything their oshi says, should actually know what their oshi thinks about them and what extent to the feelings actually are, to what extent it's just playing the "role".
clearly not by virtue of this topic in the first place otherwise there wouldn't be purityfags

>>13425169
All streamers exploit lonely people, they don't really make content, they react to other people work and talk to their chat

>>13429401
>purityfags
literally all your opinions are shit, aren't they?

>>13429362
free like a F2P game but Belgium still banned lootboxes

>>13429474
extrapolate because you probably misinterpreted what I meant

>>13429482
BELGIUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

>>13429401
Do. You watch. Korone's streams? Legitimately, do you watch her superchat reading times? She very clearly does not stay in character and makes it clear what her thoughts are.

>>13429528
do you need me to post the pasta quoting what her roommate says about idols or can we skip that part

>>13429633
If you watch her streams, I don't understand how we're having a disagreement.

>>13429513
It read like you were saying purityfags were not listening to what their oshi said

>>13429778
clearly those obvious conclusions of yours arent as obvious as you think

>>13429827
I guess maybe I didn't account for that you're retarded.

>>13429823
no what I mean is that if that purityfags(real purityfags, not no collab with males purityfags but no boyfriend for the roommate purityfags) exist it means that its not just confined to the role, and purityfags obviously exist
I dont question their dedication and actually think its more dignified than just accepting anything

>>13429872
im not the one retarded here, except you may be socially retarded instead. when I play a tabletop game with friends even when I use a character voice everybody at the table "gets" when I say something in character vs when I say something in the character voice that is me saying it based on contextual social cues
just because you choose to simplify complex social dynamics in your head doesnt make it canon

>>13429994
yes I also think the doggo is dignified. I'd like to sniff her butt

>>13430092
If you're not the retarded one here, and you are able to distinguish social cues, please explain to me which parts you thought were ironic and disagreed with. I have a feeling you just lacked reading comprehension of what I originally said and assumed you disagreed. I was saying that there is an extended meaning of "love" outside of actual parasocial girlfriend to chat, that that part of Korone being chat's girlfriend is false but that she "loves" and cares for chat isn't wrong. Do you either think that she is in an legitimate parasocial relationship with her viewers, or that she hates her viewers entirely, because those are the only two ways you could disagree with me.

>>13430109
>An idol must not get together with a man. An idol has thousands, tens of thousands of fans. Some of them may have girlfriends, and some may be already married. But you know, some of them are guys who never had a girlfriend. Some of them may never have a girlfriend in their lives, and those guys are the main source of your income.
>Those guys are working a sweat every day, doing their best at whatever job they have. The women who work with them may call them gross or stinky, but they put up with it. They continue to put up with it because they love you. They use that hard-earned income to meet up with you, to buy your merchandise, and it's because they sincerely wish that their money will help you live a better life.
>There aren't many dedicated guys out there, you know? If you're gonna tell them outright that you've been going out with another guy, that's truly the worst, most despicable act of betrayal you could ever do.
not meming since she considers herself an idol
she picks the most morally correct choice out of a pool of almost entirely bad choices

>>13430266
>Do you either think that she is in an legitimate parasocial relationship with her viewers
define parasocial relationship

>>13425169
Wow, you cracked the code. Tge vtuber industry is now over all thanks to your efforts.

>>13425169
i'm not being exploited because i don't watch streams.

>>13430368
Ok. Do you think she legitimately is in a relationship with her viewers? I'll drop the "parasocial" part. Perhaps easier to get your viewpoint, is what parts do you think she changed her perspective on her viewership before she joined Hololive and after she joined Hololive.

>>13425169
Noel exploits everyone, even her own brother. So, it isn't that much of a surprised.

>>13429633
do it anyway

>>13430531
shut up faggot

>>13425169
>Never begs for donations
>Tells people watching and commenting is enough
>Providing something that makes people happy enough to donate is 'exploiting'
If this counts as exploiting then let me be exploited. I'll like to see everything else on the market do the same. In fact, Dwarf Fortress runs entirely on this model. Open source also runs on this model - more so, in fact, since they also 'exploit' labor and technical knowledge worth aggregate millions in man-hours. Please give me completely free games, media, and software that are so satisfying that I feel compelled to donate.

>>13430445
>I'll drop the "parasocial" part.
why?
>what parts do you think she changed her perspective on her viewership before she joined Hololive and after she joined Hololive.
this is difficult to answer with specificity but she definitely wasn't doing those kinds of ASMR in 2020 and she hasn't bailed this time and I think its obvious why beyond just the company and pay with how much she invests personally

>>13430532
see>>13430329

>>13430329
>>13430445
her dignified ass is about to be in a relationship with my nose

>>13430531
her brother has a girlfriend which noel quite adores

>>13430445
>Do you think she legitimately is in a relationship with her viewers?
Not him but there's no way to interact with viewers and not have a "relationship".
Also you seem to be moving goalposts.

>>13430601
funny how so many more people feel compelled to donate vtubers and female streamers and streamers in general than freeware even if the freeware has exponentially more users than the streamer has viewers

>>13430731
not that funny, or strange.
perhaps freeware should come with selfies of the people who made it

>>13430633
>why?
Because most people understand what a "relationship" means.
>and I think its obvious why beyond just the company and pay with how much she invests personally
So, do you think she legitimately loves her fans as a girlfriend or do you think this counts as her loving and caring for her viewers and fans as her supporters. Is this exploitative or deceptive? Are you personally being exploited by this? Are her viewers being exploited by this?

Is this lowercase using run-on sentence typing fag saying that donators have no choice but to donate?

by the way I just want to say that OP is a faggot for using Noel for this thread
Noel is great and cares about her viewers
I can argue that things are exploitative but I dont think Noel is one of the ones exploiting or most of Hololive

>>13430804
the pages have links which are just as free to click which go to social media pages showing their face
you dont actually think thats the reason, do you

>>13430701
I had just written "most people understand what a 'relationship' means" but I guess not. I meant does Korone view her chat as a boyfriend that she loves in a romantic manner. And I'm not trying to move goalposts, I'm trying to understand where this anon disagrees with me. Do they think Korone is like Rushia, or do they think Korone hates her fans, which way are they disagreeing with me.

>>13430851
>Noel is great and cares about her viewers
Doubt.

>>13430813
>Because most people understand what a "relationship" means.
I see your point but I don't know if its relevant, and as an aside you'd think so right? but there's some sad fucking people out there and there's way more than you think
>she legitimately loves her fans as a girlfriend or do you think this counts as her loving and caring for her viewers and fans as her supporters
I think that the majority of the Holo girls themselves haven't figured out how they feel regarding this

>>13430873
Well yeah, there's literally no connection that you could possibly feel for a program.
People donate to charities because a sad song plays during a scene with starving children.
>>13430813
you guys are arguing over something really dumb

>>13430983
>I think that the majority of the Holo girls themselves haven't figured out how they feel regarding this
Then is it exploiting the viewers?

>>13431009
>Well yeah, there's literally no connection that you could possibly feel for a program.
>People donate to charities because a sad song plays during a scene with starving children.
youre not really trying to try to claim that people aren't starved for affection in the modern 21st century enough to feel compelled to pay for an imitation are you

>>13425169
nein, my best friend fubuki always rejects me, makes fun of me, and keeps as much distance between us as possible in order to stop it being exploitation

except for one day of the month where she's probably really horny and wants to feel like a woman

>>13431068
Paying for an imitation is getting a prostitute, not paying a virtual dog. You are really pushing this narrative that vtuber paypigs are super special downtrodden men cast away from society and locked in their rooms. A lot of viewers are normal. They just decided to waste exorbitant amounts of money on vtubers.

>>13431068
I was talking about freeware

>>13431057
nope, it is only exploiting the viewers if they do not care
this conversation has changed hands between a few posters in this thread and I originally wanted to disagree with the people claiming that all instances of all vtubers did not exploit their viewers
I do not disagree that of the vast majority of Hololive most aren't exploiting their viewers but are instead codependent

>>13431129
>You are really pushing this narrative that vtuber paypigs are super special downtrodden men cast away from society and locked in their rooms. A lot of viewers are normal. They just decided to waste exorbitant amounts of money on vtubers.
I dont really know what to tell somebody who denies reality like this

>>13430890
>I had just written
>but I guess not
You sound like a woman.
You just started dropping parts of a definition someone asked you to define then wonder why people can't instantly grasp your specific interpretation of a phrase you then used in its most generic terms.

>>13431138
crux of your argument was that the difference between donations was a person present but ignored that what the person was doing had a major impact

>>13431230
>ignoring all the family men, working class men, students, normalfag Japanese men, etc. who pay money
Ok.

>>13431151
Well. Then I have no argument with you. I assumed I was arguing with the same retard from the start, and that was the reason I got confused when you started disagreeing with me on the Korone part. If you think personally that Korone has shifted this year to be more on the Rushia spectrum than fine, I won't take the time to argue about that, I was more referring to her streams in early to late 2020 anyway.

>>13425624
that's not what "no ethical consumption" is supposed to mean
It's not a condemnation of the consumer. In fact it's pretty much the opposite, the point is "every single product is fucked up somewhere down the line, so don't ruin your quality of life to only buy from "good" companies", but in the case of vtubers that's just be shit like "some of the metal used to make your computer parts was probably mined in unethical conditions" and shit, not whatever bullshit the OP is saying.

>>13431235
And you sound illiterate, what does it matter?

>>13431129
>waste exorbitant amounts of money on vtubers
desu i don't see why this is a big of an issue as it is.
It's not as if it's some literal fishing scam or threats.
I've never SC'd but i've also spent retarded amounts on figures and custom fishing gear that has no real purpose other than aesthetics.
People will always fond ways to blow their money, be it a $1k phone, takeaway, sportsball, etc.
If it's worth it for them, sure.
I'll still laugh at them though.

>>13431305
Sure, maybe the guys making freeware should have selfies of them looking into an empty fridge while a sad tune plays

>>13431336
average holo viewers are in their 20s, meaning students or new to their job, probably low income, but the ones who donate thousands of dollars of their low income also live normal lives?
ogey
seemingly unlike you I actually look at the akasupa and fans twitter pages and see what kind of people are around
like I said I dont really know how to talk to somebody who just ignores cause and effect

>>13431440
>you sound illiterate
Says the man who couldn't define his interpretation of vague, contested, terms.
Pull your head out of your arse, there's been many threads arguing over their definitions.
You just sound like you can't without weakening your position.

>>13431456
tons of freeware software producers have patreons with sad stories though
I remember I once saw a super popular skyrim mod on the Nexus where a dude said he had to stop because he was dying but it could be prevented if he had the money, I shilled him a little because I was a kid then and had no money
spoilers, the dude died

>>13431446
They're free to do so but saying they're exploited is retarded.
>>13431480
You cannot give a single rational explanation to why someone feels compelled to akasupa a streamer. You can list all the things like women not wanting to date men or these men being undesirable but that doesn't mean they need to open their wallet to a vtuber. It is irrational. You can't say it's rational. If you are biting the bait OP describes that's due to you being retarded, not an unseen magical force pushing your hand to click that dollar sign on Youtube.

>>13431446
a lot of consumerism is based on exploitation but its usually acknowledged to be negative even by those who participate in it and people call out the most manipulative scams when they happen

>>13431559
sure but your story still implies you were moved to do something.

>>13430851
If you feel so compelled to defend your oshi over this so vehemently, then maybe there's some truth to it.

>>13431532
"Is [x] in a relationship with [y]?"
What does relationship mean here? Are you able to determine from context? It appears not, you might tell me that it's a plausible interpretation I'm referring to whether x and y as variables are in some sort of relationship mathematically. I dropped "parasocial relationship" precisely because it is vaguely thrown around a lot and the other anon was right to call out that as something that needs to be defined. I switched to "relationship" because most people can figure out what that means from the context; but, apparently you can not.

>>13426498
>>13426512
now kiss

>>13431586
>You cannot give a single rational explanation to why someone feels compelled to akasupa a streamer. You can list all the things like women not wanting to date men or these men being undesirable but that doesn't mean they need to open their wallet to a vtuber. It is irrational.
define rational and then define why an explanation must be rational to be an explanation

>>13425169
Absolutely correct. I take breaks from their streams for me time.

>>13431692
shut up faggot

>>13431640
I was but I'm a bleeding heart, most people are not

>>13431723
Well I never meant to imply that increased personal interaction would make the creators of freeware wealthy, just that it would be better than it being completely faceless.

I would just like to state that Noel is a huge whore. That’s all.

>>13431692
Explanations need to be rational, or else you can say the sky is blue due to all of mankind hallucinating it and if you accept that as a true explanation then you are retarded.

>>13431643
the massive irony of this entire statement is that I'm a gachikoi who has been taking the side of the OP almost this entire thread to try and explore that same question since I can do so safely and anonymously on 4chan
Was a waste of time though, I run into the same brick wall I always do with a certain group of people and more and more I think that there's some foundational difference in thinking that separates the two sides that can't be overcome, irritating

>>13431643
People didn't feel compelled to defend Artia. Maybe there's no truth to the accusations against her.

>>13425169
lmao i'm too poor to even superchat how are they exploiting me

>>13425169
I knew that from the beginning and I don't care as long as they entertain me. I haven't given any money to any of them yet and I don't plan to do it soon. Probably because I'm not emotionally screwed up enough to look for GFE.

>>13431775
but I never argued that it wouldn't so I don't see why that was relevant at all
I said there's a reason streamers and female streamers and female streamers selling parasocial elements make the money they do(meaning, the most)

>>13431991
no you said it was funny and I said it wasn't

>>13431856
are hallucinations irrational?
If I could somehow see what a man is seeing and say, "that man is hallucinating a force pushing him off the roof", is it irrational for another person to get ready to catch him

>>13432073
sorry I forgot to add an /s but if I do that people start being mean to me on the internet

>>13432178
nah mate stop being a crybaby about the amount of money other people make

>>13432261
address the argument

>>13432113
>are hallucinations irrational?
Yes.
If you're stopping someone from acting out their irrational impulses it doesn't make the impulses rational all of a sudden. I'm not going to reply anymore because you're past the point of mental illness right now.

>>13425169
So why do you keep giving them money, OP?

>>13432332
are you retarded, the conversation about that was completely finished?

>>13432336
if hallucinations are irrational than they could not possibly lead to predictable conclusions
you dont understand the words youre using

>>13432421
address the argument

>>13432478
It's done, the anon said he had a bleeding heart for some faggot who made a skyrim mod.

Im bored of this thread and I think my wall here is that some people are simply okay with bad things because theyre going to happen and cant simply choose to be upset about bad things while still letting them happen
if you choose to cope with bad things by letting yourself believe theyre justified because otherwise youd have to oppose them, thats your deal but its cope

>>13432732
kek do some squats or something

>>13428813
nor you

>>13432845
but she will sleep with me

>>13425845
Tits or nah

>>13432732
I, too, am sometimes upset that force fields and teleporters don't exist, but I don't spend my day being upset about their non-existence and whining about how everyone else should be equally upset about them not existing and not just pretend it's okay that they don't exist.

>>13432845
Why would I sleep with a whore?

>>13432976
t. doesn't have sex

>>13432976
I dunno, you're the one that brought it up.

What a good moment for this thread to pop up.
I took a month break from vtubers and this meant completely stop consuming any vtuber related content, even clips. Then went on trying to live my life.
The first two days I had noticeable anxiety over missing out on content and "developments", but then I sort of stopped caring.
It was as if, after more than a year of watching vtubers almost everyday, it had all been a dream and didn't miss on anything actually happening. Then one day a clip of my favorite male streamer popped up and after having a blast I had an epiphany: I didn't like vtubers because I liked their content, I liked them because they were a replacement for female attention and interaction. I was perfectly fine before knowing them and still am after them.
I still love her personality and consider some of her streams entertaining (pic related) but I won't care about missing most of her streams or anybody else's, and definitely will check out on smaller corpos and indies. I'll even give vshojo a try, fuck the pink cat tho.
Thanks for reading my blog and hope you too can stop being a faggot whose only purpose in life is to become a minion for a woman.

>>13433535
Based.

>>13433535
why do you think you can get away with lying, when we have our own lives as proof?

>>13433535
You're just a minion for whatever else you care about instead

>>13425169
I know that, OP. I wasn't exactly looking for GFE but I do have a crush on my oshi and I'm a member purely for the members-only text posts. I never have and never will superchat, though; I don't see the point when there are already so many whales.

>>13426327
because anime girls are cute

>>13425169
you don't have to pay money

>b-but muh membership content

torrent it

>>13434716
Children don't have to work at sweat shops either, but it's the overwhelmingly better paying choice.

>>13434805
That's an argument in bad faith and you know it. The "consent" between working as a labourer in order to eat and avoid dying, and the consent to willingly pay 5 bucks for a membership are completely fucking different. How are retarded are you to think they are completely comparable?

My current lifestyle doesn't allow me to be in a relationship. But I have desires and am an adult with more than enough money in the bank.

Sometimes I spend it on a prostitute, sometimes an Onlyfans and sometimes simply a streamer playing Minecraft.

I spend money to entertain myself without the baggage. How is that exploitation?

>>13425169
> VTubers exploit lonely men
Yeah, of course, what man in his right mind shills out hundreds or thousands of dollars to some random virtual girl he'll never meet. But shit, kawaii genki anime gril seems to love me, so I guess that's good enough reason to give her a bit of money.

>>13435045
Maslow's hierarchy of needs originally placed sex on the same level as food and breathing.

The human need for intimacy is real.

>>13425169
I'm simply addicted to cute things.
Not enough cute stuff irl.

>>13436536
Then if you are really one of those that values it that highly, you should be applauding them for providing it for a price far, far lower than just about any other method in human history, then or now.

>>13425169
are you telling me i can pay a girl on the screen to feing being happy to interact with me even after some unnerving cringe fest that will grant me a cold stare in the real world and somehow i am the one who is being exploited?

>>13426994
>Never been in a fight before
Trust me if you got into an actual fight, you would do anything to win

>>13427645
>There are many VTubers with better personalities
>Does not provide a single example
Every single time...

>>13427382
Really makes you think on how she could do it so easily?

The problem does not exist because I never spent a single cent on vtubers/streamers and I never will.
Fools are easily parted from their money.

>>13429482
What exactly is the gambling aspect of giving money to VTubers compared to Lootboxes?
Oh wait... you did not think that far, because you are a retard

>>13425510
They are exploiting you not because they offer a product you like, they are exploiting you because they produce a product targeted specifically at your weaknesses and issues which is manipulative unlike people liking sweet stuff so they buy something sweet if they want to. It’s like a bakery opening in an area where sugar is super expensive so they go there to sell from sugar from the outside and the people become addicts. Smart and efficient but still exploitation in both cases.

>>13426144
anon….

Thoughts on Yukihana Lamy?

>>13441091
That is literally how all of consumerism and capitalism works.

>>13425169
>>13425510
It's true
Even the girls recognize the "relationship" as exploitative
That's why Mori jokes about the supas being the viewers' "souls"
That's why Ina and Ame discourage superchatting
That's why Kiara's members are the chickens that are getting eaten
They feel it's wrong, too, although it's hard to put into words how

>>13426543
she's been showing feet too after i requested in dms a million times, pretty based and cheaper than most onlyfans girls doing the same thing

>>13441745
They are just playing into the keyfabe retard

>>13425624
>ALL SEX IS RAPE
Based, sex havers deserve to die

>>13441862
>ame turning monetization off
>kayfabe
ogey
And with the others, there's an overarching theme of it destroying you. Hell, just listen to Bully sometime

>>13427238
I bet you scratch and pull hair too don't you faggot? That shit's for chicks and pussies.

>>13442133
That's just Mori, and we all know she hates the industry but stays in it because it makes a lot of money. She's not exactly a moral pillar.

>>13426994
Both are based though. If you got into one, fight to win.

>>13442310
Based threadreader
preach sis

>>13442592
You cannot refute my point. Hell, just as you pointed out, even her songs prove me right.

>>13441745
>Even the girls recognize the "relationship" as exploitative
>That's why Mori jokes about the supas being the viewers' "souls"
>That's why Ina and Ame discourage superchatting
>That's why Kiara's members are the chickens that are getting eaten
Based Gura doesn't give a fuck

>>13442687
I don't think your fanfiction counts as evidence.

>>13442844
>fanfiction
Dude, you made my argument for me, I didn't even need to provide you an example.

>>13441745
>That's why Mori jokes about the supas being the viewers' "souls"
I don't think that's a joke. Mori has very complicated feelings about her fanbase. She frequently expresses these in her songs, particularly Cursed Night, her rendition of Envy Baby and Bully.

>>13442928
>p-p-please believe me I'm definitely right
Nah

>>13425169
OH NYOOOOO
MY OSHI KEEPS EXPLOITING ME
I JUST CAN'T STOP JERKING OFF TO HER AND SENDING SUPACHATS
OH NYOOOOO
I'M SUCH A VICTIM, SHE TOTALLY EXPLOITS ME BECAUSE SHE WON'T LET ME SMELL HER CUNT
OWO

>>13442960
I accept your concession.
Just to be clear, I don't believe Mori is a bad person, she's just an average one.

>>13443095
I accept yours too.

>>13425169
Anyone who isn't braindead already realizes this.

>>13425624
"all sex is rape" is second wave stuff, not first wave. also not what "no ethical consumption [under capitalism]" means — it means that exploitation is always going to happen down the line somewhere and it's pointless to play whack a mole by trying to only give money to "ethical" businesses

>>13426192
Only mutts make this kind of argument

>>13425169
in other news, water is wet

>>13443450
thanks, feminist scholar nitpicking vtuber discussion on 4chan.

>>13441499
About the same as Noel. A whore that manipulates her viewers.

>>13444717
Lamy is too autistic to be able to even understand how to manipulate her viewers

>>13444758
>He fell for it

I can't come to a verdict on my mental debate of whether or not the person calling Noel a whore is OP himself.

This was some masterclass fucking bait OP well done farming all these (you)'s
However I'm 95% you're some degree of retarded or mentally deranged

The stray kitten I saw on my walk today exploited me out of a piece of my sandwich

>>13425169
The industry will be replaced by personalized anime AI gf's eventually.

>>13445738
That's only if the gatebox ever gets any traction.

>>13426720
He is a spic NEET. He has outed himself before.

>>13425169
If anything, they should lean into it more. Dating an anime girl is a lot of fun.

Noel actually doesn't lead people on that much. If you want someone who is actually manipulative it is Marine. She goes on about how she is the only positive thing in their lives, fakes all her interests to pander to them and pretends to be horny just like them.

>>13446407
Oh yeah and the faggot accused Noel of pretending to be a lesbian, Noel is bi, Marine is 100% straight, she is the one pretending.

>>13425169
the vtubing industry exploits lonely chuubas

>>13446407
>>13446484
Don't forget that Marine fucked all her male friends on NND.

>>13425169
I can't imagine how someone could spend all their time watching girls that aren't funny or entertaining playing boring videogames.
At least the parasocial losers admit that they are there just cause they're female streamers but even they are cuckolds since they're fine with used goods gfe.
What a disgrace

>>13441499
Lamy and Ryshia are straight up evil
GFE as isn't as innocent as you think

>>13444928
I think all chuubas are whores
simple as

>>13446861
>Lamy and Ryshia are straight up evil
>GFE as isn't as innocent as you think
If you think GFE is bad, you wouldn't believe what 3D women do in real life

>>13446861
Do you like, do anything in life to combat actual evil, or just complain about women on the internet.

>>13446861
If you actually cared about fighting evil you would go after serial killers and stuff like that, not women larping as anime girls who people choose to watch.

>Vtubers exploit the loney out of money
>Companies exploit the vtubers out of the money they got from the lonely
>Dirty Managers exploit the vtubers via "favors"
>Managers are exploited by the CEO to work longer hours
>CEO is exploited by shareholders to make a quick profit
It never ENDS! FUCK THIS WORLD!!!

>>13447160
there are varying degrees of evil you simp

>>13447266
this world should just be destroyed desu

>>13447285
It's evil to the core...truly.

>>13447268
True but if you truly cared about fighting evil you would focus on things that are truly evil like serial killers. The cops don't focus on petty theft over murder.

>>13425169
But I only spend money for memberships (in ARS)

>>13447268
>straight up evil
I have no idea who could look at actual atrocities and acts of evil, and use the phrase straight up evil to describe GFE vtubers. How sheltered do you have to be from the world to think that.

>>13447333
Don't tell that anon or anyone that wishes to carry out righteousness what to do with it. Just as there is varying degrees of evil there is of good. And right now...this world needs all the good it can get even in the smallest amounts.

>>13426885
>sugar
>addiction
what the fuck am i reading

>>13447429
Even within the vtuber world there are worse things than GFE. Astel's roommate raping animals being the worst of them.

>>13447749
It still amazes me how anyone supports that cunt. Not only is there the furry shit and the animal abuse but he is an asshole and his roommate is even more of an asshole. No wonder Roberu doesn't like him.

>>13447749
>>13447800
Astel raped me as a shota. It's true. I promise.

>>13447847
Astel raping animals is not a joke or just a narrative. Do your roommate reps.

>>13425169
I'm lonely by choice and I'm only membered to two vtubers, never superchats

>mods protecting animal abusers

>>13447497
Its how fat pigs cope.