/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

They don't need to.

>>12953670
ogey

Unironically ww2

>>12953719
You leave me no choice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbyQaZZMDkM

Because it debuted before EN was created.
Look at moona, even if she can't speak Japanese, she's probably the most popular on ID. Character is important

>>12953719
This. I speak English as second language but I never did my Japanese reps after learning some hiragana because I don't have to.

>>12953670
It’s not just holos. Japan’s English education is a joke.

> culture
also go learn JP yourself

why cant you speak japanese OP?

>>12953836
If first holo branch was, I dunno, HoloFR, or HoloRU, I bet my ass they would be able to speak at least comprehensible unglish.

>>12953670
why almost no amerimutt can speak indog?
Ollie isn't even fluent in Japanese if you actually watch her

>>12953806
Indogs are different because nobody wants to listen to their language and they would get no viewers if they streamed in Indonesian.

It's all in entertainment media in my opinion.
They mostly consume their own stuff.
And all the imported ones are localized and dubbed, they don't need to touch English at all.

Noooo you must speak heckin english to join the globohomo

>Japan was an incredibly isolationist nation until the 1850s
>They teach English very poorly in schools
>They don't really need to learn it, and most people don't care enough to learn it

prefer they not, english allows you to be brainwashed by jews

>>12953670
>Why almost no one in JP can speak engrish?
Are you really wondering why they do not when they pretty much live in a country that if you ignore the salary men/women details and certain suicides issues.
They barely know what is having a power outage, they technology there is ridiculous, yada yada yada.
Not counting that and certain doctors incompetence with gajins and some citizen. You never gonna need english in a Japan when you are a native.

EOP pandering chuubas are mistakes

>>12954855
Many of JP fans are non-japanese (surprisingly, actually, since I don't understand how can you be a fan if you don't even understand what they say but whatever). If they could speak english, imagine - no problems in collabs with HoloEN, no problems with interacting with english fans, you can speak with more people around the world in general.

Have you tried learning Japanese? Imagine a vastly different grammar structure from English or even your own native tongue if you're an ESL and an entire different vocabulary sharing no history with any of the European languages save for a comparative handful of loanwords. Not so easy, huh? Especially when you haven't grown up with it. Now imagine that in reverse, and add in the fact other anons have brought up that you don't *need* English to get by in Japan, what with all forms of media and entertainment including vidya being readily available and often made first in your own native language.

Yuros have an incentive to learn English that the Japanese don't, simple as. Which on the other hand gives all EOPs an incentive to learn Japanese if they're going to stick by their JP oshis.

>>12953670
>"They don't need to learn it". (do they even use it aside from browsing EN stuffs in the internet?)
>Dogshit english education in japan (Written by JPs who is also not fluent in english. EN culture is missing, while JP culture is also learned while learning jap language)
>(engrish) pronounciation

>>12953670
japanese education system pls andastand

>>12953806
But all the JP holos actually massively back Ollie up here in their behavior? She is complaining about the people who tell her to respond to English superchats in Indonesian because "they don't speak English". You will notice that if you SC a JP holo in English they actually make an effort to read it in English and give an answer in English. Even though they don't speak it! And yet do you see the Japanese doing the shit the Indonesians do en masse and going 'please answer the SC in Japanese, I don't understand English?' Fuck no.

>>12955299
They don't need to. Majority of paypig and members are Japanese. Big corps who can sponsor them are also Japanese.
Vtuber, even if it's niche in Japan, is still far more popular than everywhere else.

>>12953670
>All europe can speak english as second language
Using the same alphabet makes it drastically easier to learn a language. I've had zero education on several euro languages and I can communicate with other people without looking like one of those literal ESL indians that type sentences such as "YOU HAVE TO DO THE NEEDFUL SIR".

Also I'd imagine that the Japanese have no need to learn this nor the support for that even if it would print them money.

Sidenote: why is Achan's english so good in comparison?
She's only like 20 right

>>12953910
We beat them in ww2, so now they need to do what we say. Nipon is a stupid language anyways.

>>12956368
chink scribbles are even further away from English than Japanese but have a higher degree of fluent English speakers
>>12956445
it's more important on the business end of things, especially if your whole job is to organize or assist with organizing projects which means interacting with management, talents, sponsors, music producers like with Bloom, artists, etc

>>12956501
Chink grammar is similar. Also the language sounds awful, creating an incentive to learn other languages.

>>12953670
Japanese and English are pretty much on opposite ends of the language spectra - both in terms of grammar and vocabulary

>>12953670
I'd say their English is better than most Japanese speaking people, and for sure better than most English speakers' Japanese. Like Okayu and Korone could both read the credits of that Mario game they played, even if their pronunciation was ass. I wish they put in more effort, but I also understand they're super busy since they have to dance, put on shows, voice act, etc..

>>12953992
I dunno, they sound pretty cute, I especially like how "absurd" sounds, and Reine's manner of speaking sounds nice.
https://youtu.be/QKMgDn8ufZM

>>12955922
This is it.
Japan keeps to itself, mostly, and has a vastly different language.

>>12954855
Why doesn't Anon speak English?

>>12956167
That's because Jp's don't stream 59% of the time in a different language

>>12956445
She's doing her reps, and you clearly haven't if you really think she's 20

>>12953670
>Japanese has a simple grammar but a convoluted abomination of a writing system
>English has a simple writing system but a convoluted abomination of grammar
It's like they are polar opposites

>>12953836
>Character is important

Agreed, as an inferior ID you must be shameless enough to leech from a superior JP in order to succeed.

>>12957925
That's not what the video is about, though, it's specifically talking about replying to English superchats in English. The main stream language issue is an entirely separate matter, and more repulsive.

For that especially we can look at Reine's numbers just after debut and Iofi's view numbers to see that Indonesians' main interest clearly isn't the speaking of the language so much as what it symbolizes. They want someone they see as already successful - verified by overseas viewer numbers or bigger streamers - and then to cling onto that person like a parasite, to claim that person as 'theirs', and thus to hope a little bit of that specialness will rub off on them, by creating exclusivity for themselves, that person's interests be damned.

Same thing happened to Moona. I don't know what's more disgusting, the idea that Moona's incline came primarily from foreign fans instead of her own people after Pekora collabs, or that Indonesians only started watching her more because she was essentially endorsed by a "top streamer" which the overwhelming majority of them - a far, far higher percentage than EN-speaking IDs - assuredly don't understand, but watch anyway.

It's the same impulse that drives people to do things like reboot Ghostbusters into an all-female crew instead of making their own successful property. The only investment they would be making is literally just to watch the vtuber, and yet with a country over twice the population of Japan with a comparatively miniscule amount of vtubers in total to choose from - not just holos - they can't even do that. There's not a single primarily Indonesian-speaking vtuber they can point to now and say, "See? It's not a niche. This is the sort of support you can get, the sheer number of Indonesian-only speakers hungry for a good vtuber." That absence is the most telling thing of all.

>>12959658
for anyone who isn't interested in reading this fucking livejournal, tl;dr indogs are cockroaches

>>12953910
>just learn learn JP
>>
but in all seriousness I am, after 20 yeasrs of being a dirty weeb I finally took the plunge

>>12953806
this is a really good clip
I like ollie and I like the translator/clipper

>>12959658
>There's not a single primarily Indonesian-speaking vtuber they can point to now and sa
Actually there is, Maha5 overshadows HoloID in size - they stream games that Indos actually play and collab with companies in Indonesia, including the loca publishers of foreign games. They grew so much that they're opening a JP Branch, in a reversal of the trend.

HoloID just chases foreigners because a single yellow foreign superchat is worth more than an entire stream of donations of Indonesian Rupiah (which currently exchanges at a rate of 1 Rupiah = 0.000070 US Dollars) even when they go around the YT using a third-party donation system.

The "culture argument" by Ollie is a typical third-world middle-class argument that they're superior because they indulge in foreign culture and hides the fact that she rather enjoys the foreign attention and the foreign money because it makes her feel superior to the people of her country which she sees as poor and uncultured.

>>12953670
Japan is not some tiny loser country that has to speak someone else's language to survive.

>>12961534
fish boy calm down

>>12953719
FPBP
Why speak English when all the gaijin all flocking to them automatically

>>12953670
Why did we learn english? Because being confined to just our native media/culture is incredibly dull. English is a basic necessity. For the japanese it's a much smaller issue, because they produce a large portion of the cool stuff themselves. Plus they're natural born hikkis and just don't give a fuck about the rest of the world.

>>12953670
Chinese has the most native speakers in the world. Spanish is second. English third. Japanese eight.

Japanese people prefer to slowly transform their language into english with loan words.

>>12953670
Why do the superior Japanese need to speak your retarded language? English is on its way out, Japanese is the next dominant language

>>12956477
And now they're better than you. Safer country, better education, better healthcare, no mass shootings, no insurrection. Cope and seethe harder

>>12956445
5 year olds can easily have better English than the average holo. It's not a problem of age.

Why would someone have to speak Japanese?
At least English makes sense, as it's not a backwater exclusive language to weebs only. It's not like you have use for Japanese besides their media.

>>12953719
Fpbp, but with some context. JP whobare interested in overseas will at least try to learn. The ones not interested will always live in their bubbles in Japan

>>12953670
>stuttering level
a bunch of them can speak it at stuttering level

>>12954855
>You never gonna need english in a Japan when you are a native.
No shit Sherlock, I thought otherwise!! Thanks for enlighten me!! I have never needed english in my country but here we are, I learned just through talking with people in Internet like I'm doing now.

>>12953670
This >>12953719 but also learning EN as a JP speaker anf vice versa is really fucking hard. Totally distinct linguistic roots with very different grammar and pronunciation on top of the radically divergent writing systems = a really hard language barrier to penetrate.

European languages are much more closely related to English and English is also much more important to the daily life of a random German, Italian, or Polish person than it is to a Japanese person.

>>12953670
They don't really need to, but it would be interesting to see them study English like Subaru, and a few ones. Just seeing Subaru improves on English is really satisfying. Then again, they don't really need to if they don't want. I just enjoy watching them, and seeing them grow and having fun. If they're having fun, then I'm glad.

>>12953670
Because you’re not the target audience.

learning english in school in japan is the equivalent of learning any secondary language in America

>>12953670
Why dont EOPs speak japanese

>>12970260
English is the universal language. Japanese is not.

>>12970179
Which explains why they aren't good at it to start. But now that they have incentives to learn the language (coworkers, foreign fans) they still don't put effort towards learning.

>>12970260
Because once they learn Japanese they are no longer EOPs.

>>12970282
Vtubing is a japanese thing, why dont EOPs speak japanese in a japanese market

>>12970322
The most popular vtuber can barely speak Japanese. It's not a "Japanese thing".

>>12970364
Pekora speaks english and as much of a meme Miko is she also speaks english

>>12953806
Ollie will forever be in the right here and the fact that there's some people that somehow view this as some sort of "yabe" accident will always confuse me.

>>12953670
Most people generally won't learn the language of another country if they like the country they live in. Most people that live in Japan, generally like living there. Indonesia on the other hand....

They're not gonna spend their valuable time to appeal to autists like you.

nice thread

>>12953670
OP you have to realize just how different English and Japanese is to each other, they are completely different language. It possible but also fucking time consuming which we all know each Holomembers don't exactly have.

>>12956127
nobody truly learns a 2nd language in school

English is commonly taught in Japanese schools.
But its such a different language and their uses for it so limited that most of the Japanese population don't retain any meaningful knowledge of it.
Generally speaking the only ones who retain any level of english language proficiency are those who take technical, scientific or medical courses at university or those who interact with the American occupation forces or tourists

>>12953670
>All europe can speak english as second language, on one skill level or another.
No they can't, ask the average French person and they're not better than your average Holo

>>12971540
To be fair here.
Thats because they're French and actively detest the English and their language.
English for instance is the international language of aviation and all air traffic control is required to use "Aviation English" with professional pilots being required to learn it too.
But French air traffic control habitually refuses to use aviation English and will instead use French until they are forced to use English. Yes this means air travel in and around France is more dangerous than it should be but everyone knows and accounts for this.

But thats just how the French are.
Another example is their repeated efforts to remove English as one of the EUs "official languages" even before brexit. Even after brexit the EU isn't keen on it because of how well entrenched English is internationally.

Meanwhile most other European nations populations have some very basic English knowledge.

>>12971930
You're talking about "France as a country", which is a bit beside the point. I'm talking about French people as people. It's not that they don't like English, most of them don't dislike it, they just suck at it. Nobody says "courriel" instead of "email", but they still suck at English in general

>>12953670
> Why almost no one in JP can speak engrish?
Most Nips can't into English because:
1. They didn't have the privilege of being colonized by the Anglo like Malaysia or Singapore were.
2. Eternally assblasted over WW2 so government doesn't really support English learning like in other countries.
3. Huge internal market, most of them don't have to work much with foreigners.
Keep in mind, it's not just that they don't speak English, they simply don't speak any language other than Jap. For all the claims about muh Asian IQ and education on this front the average Nip is extremely undereducated.
People will make fun of Americans for being completely unaware of what goes outside of their own country but Nips are no better in that regard or maybe even worse.

>>12953670
Learning a second language is difficult enough, even when it shares linguistic roots with a language you already know. Eastern and Western language structures are about as far apart as languages can even be, but even then, the japanese have romaji and frequently use it online, because the language basis for computer technology is strictly english. They could learn it given time, they simply choose not to, and they're justified in doing so because learning languages is a huge timesink that almost no one really has time for.

They really don't have much to gain by becoming ESL.

>>12958079
Your jealousy is unbecoming of you, Reine

>>12953670
Because if they did, /vt/ would scream about MUH BILINGUAL DEBUFF

>>12973717
You just need to do it right, like Subaru.

>>12953806
Pretty based ngl

>>12953806
I'm never gonna get over how hilarious she sounds when ranting in Indo.

>>12953806
I am still not entirely convinced Indonesian is a real language.
I mean all I hear is *aggressive clicking noises*
Are they all in on some kind of gigantic joke?

>>12971540
Maybe not in France, but if we think about Kiara her English is quite proficient, and she have said that in Austria English is easy to learn in school. Heck, even mamatori has a really good English, and she is like at least 50 years old. Maybe there are only some countries in Europe with their inhabitants actually being able to speak English. Here in Spain we are maybe even worse than France about speaking English, probably the same situation in Portugal or Italy (aka countries with romance languages too)

>>12973783
Subaru is an exception hard to replicate, because she studied for some time in Canada or some similar place. Only a minority of people can afford or want to live in another country. I would say it's even more exceptional in Japan

>>12976060
Kiara is the exception, not the average. Most of my friends are good at english because we partially grew up on the internet. Most people, especially the old ones are not

>>12956501
chink language is generally considered a little easier than japanese due to its similar grammatical structure and lack of situation dependent tenses and diction

>>12976259
I thought that you Austrians and Germans were just good with English, hearing Mamatori eigo for example. So then Kiara is unironically talented with languages anyway, considering that se wasn't going well at highschool to the point that she ended dropping out

>>12976336
Hahaha hell no, japanese is one of the hardest language to learn globally but Chinese is your typical op extra boss in a game after you complete the main story. Both mandarin and Cantonese are tonal languages, and also you have more than twice kanjis to learn while studying japanese

Japanese is already too complicated on its own. Difficulties with literacy and it still being taught way into high school even. They can't fit in another language.

>>12976365
>So then Kiara is unironically talented with languages anyway
More like she grew up on the internet and went to english-speaking places

>>12976457
https://japaneseruleof7.com/are-japanese-people-retarded/

>>12976433
you can just google "is it harder to learn chinese or japanese for an english speaker" instead of proving yourself retarded on a french interior design forum. pretty much every government institution and linguist agrees on the subject.

>>12976365
>>12976461
Well she knows three languages.
Thats pretty good overall.

>>12976617
I don't meant to say that she's bad, I meant to say that before considering talent, she probably put in more work than most people her age

>>12976547
You are not giving any examples, I don't say that japanese is easy and they are probably at a similar level of difficulty; but the 4 different tones of mandarin (6 for Cantonese) it's the tie breaker here

>>12976700
It's funny though because those language skills mean she's probably in a better position for her post vtuber life than most of HoloEN

>>12976617
fun fact she learned jap by streaming for the japs as a child, that's why she's bad at keigo.

>>12976759
There are way more people that know 3 languages than there are people that have a million youtube subscribers anon. Also Mori has a musical career, and Ina a drawing career

>>12976759
In my case, seeing Kiara speaking that good both English and japanese motivated me for doing the same. After years of slowly learning English, I am finally preparing the Cambridge Advanced Exam for examining myself next summer. Also I am learning Japanese too, which is probably going to be an useless effort but who knows, it worked for the chimkin

>>12976801
But also is easy to find a work when languages are required, especially with such an odd mixture like jap, eigo and german

>>12976998
Yeah sure anon she's going to transition into international sales where she will use her non existing experience

>>12953806
Was watching the video and understanding her point and just started laughing for how much of a monkey she sounds while ranting in indo
based ollie still not gonna watch her

>>12953670
Chinese script is a failed language format and it actively impedes them when they learn other languages. Hell it actively impedes their entire culture.

>>12977686
>Hell it actively impedes their entire culture.
At first it was funny but then it got sad watching Korone playing FF9 and repeatedly fail to read the kanji in the dialogue.

People in Asia, except Japan, are learning languages to escape to the West.
Most of the Asians you see in real life are chinks, Southeast Asians and Koreans.
You almost never see Japanese.

>>12953670
give them a break, they have to learn three alphabets to write in their own language.

>>12976801
There is always a shortage of professional translators because demand for them is so high and tech solutions continue to fall flat on their face.
Unless she actively sets out to be, Kiara will never go hungry.

Moris musical career pre-Cover couldn't pay the bills and was mainly a labour of love.
And the thing about being an entertainer as a career is even if you make it, it's all too likely you'll fade into obscurity just as quickly.

You're right about Ina. Theres always demand for illustrators. She'll be fine. She might wind up drawing gacha waifus, but she'll live.

>>12977686
It's basically pictograms. Which are just stupidly inefficient.

>>12953670
English is a plebian language

>>12978574
>Moris musical career pre-Cover couldn't pay the bills and was mainly a labour of love.
>And the thing about being an entertainer as a career is even if you make it, it's all too likely you'll fade into obscurity just as quickly.
Still, now that she's known she'll probably always be able to eat as long as she produces music

>You're right about Ina. Theres always demand for illustrators. She'll be fine. She might wind up drawing gacha waifus, but she'll live.
Well, about that...

>>12978699
>Ina already draws gacha waifus.
Ok yeah. She'll probably draw furry porn.
Point is decent artists hell even middling artists are unlikely to starve so long as they can draw without vomiting.

As for Mori. I hope she plays this smart and saves up. I get the feeling a lot of the hologirls are just blowing through what they get.

>>12979003
>As for Mori. I hope she plays this smart and saves up. I get the feeling a lot of the hologirls are just blowing through what they get.
No idea about that, Japanese are usually good at saving lots of money and dying with it, but Holos seem to be on the opposite side of that. Though with all they make, they should still have plenty even if they blow lots of money

>>12979255
A lot of them have financial or family issues to contend with.
So it's no shock they're burning dosh
That being said with the way the global economy is looking, saving might not be the smart thing to do

>>12979347
Yeah, Ina often talks about buying stuff for her parents. But even that might be peanuts compared to how much they make

>>12979438
Yeah I think the holomyth girls are likely raking it in. Even Ina.
I mean what was it Gura was making? A couple of grand every ten minutes during streams?

>>12979624
>Yeah I think the holomyth girls are likely raking it in. Even Ina.
$X00 000 a year, with X > 2 at the very least. Just the membership is already $20k a month for most

>>12979624
Reminder that Cover and Youtube both take pretty hefty cuts out of their earnings, to say nothing of taxes on top of that. I very much doubt they make much more than any white collar job.

>>12979667
>x>2
Gura has made over 1 million dollars in superchats alone so far https://playboard.co/en/channel/UCoSrY_IQQVpmIRZ9Xf-y93g

>>12979803
Youtube takes 30%, cover half of the rest (for gen 4, the other contracts might be different). Though for the merch the cut is way lower. Superchats + memberships + merch + sponsorships is easily $300/400k a year in their pockets, which is way more than any white collar job

>>12979842
With the cuts that's $350 000, and that's without memberships, merchs and sponsorships. Most people probably underestimate how much sponsorships make, but it's a LOT. Probably $50k at least for a 1 hour stream for Gura

>>12979912
The real perk is that streaming is very time efficient versus earnings. They are being paid to have fun for a few hours each day, essentially.

>>12979912
$350,000 is a hell of a lot of money to make in one year.
She could buy a house or apartment and put it up for rent with that much.
Work 2-3 years and get 2-3 places and she's set for life.

>>12980009
Well, not exactly, for most of them it's a full time job because they have to do stuff off-stream

>>12980058
Yeah, the FIRE movement (get lots of money and retire early) usually aims for 1 million dollars, because with the usual returns from the market (4% a year) you have $40k guaranteed each year, so you can just stop working (if you're frugal). For them, they'll probably have to work a bit more, but that's assuming they make "only" $350k a year

>>12964848
holy shit get a load of this idiot

>>12979912
Yeah once Cover moves to REALLY start monetising the holomyth girls? Their earnings are going to skyrocket even if they're only getting fifteen percent cuts of any sponsorships.

The Jap girls are already raking it in for advertising and guest appearances.

>>12953670
They don't need to, it's that easy just how most burgers also don't know a second language. Europe is geographically, culturally and economically cucked so their residents have to make compromises.
Burgers and Nip don't ever need to interact with foreigners or move, they get everything subbed or dubbed so why waste time?

>>12976149
I think it's more that Subaru is interested in foreign cultures and media. She didn't study abroad long enough to be as proficient as she is now. She's proficient because she wants to watch shit like Supernatural and Marvel movies.

>>12976748
It's easier to learn it as a native English speaker because Chinese sentence structure is SVO(Subject Object Verb) just like English while Japanese is SOV(Subject Object Verb).
>English: John kicks the ball.
>Japanese: John wa bōru o keru. (John ball kicks)

>>12993928
I meant SVO(Subject Verb Object) obviously

bump

>>12993921
this is the reason. japanese students go to their english classes or their eikaiwa, learn a few phrases, words, or grammar structures, and then spend the rest of their life speaking, listening, and reading japanese. you cannot acquire a language without regularly engaging with the language.