/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>12144874
it has nothing to do with vshojo, hololive rigging is kind of ass.

>>12144874
The rigging shit is not even related to VShojo.

>muh rigging
who cares

>>12144922
>>12145008
I didn't mean to imply they were related. It's more like I'm baffled a barebone "company" like VShojo and their talent can get high quality rigs while the largest brand in the industry cannot.

>>12144874
Why do you fucking care so much?

>>12145049
>like VShojo and their talent can get high quality rigs while the largest brand in the industry cannot
They can, they're just not doing it because they don't have to. This is what happens with brands, anon. Try not being a retard and stop baiting for (you)s for once in your life.

>>12144874
cause its Brian Fucking Tsui
that man shits out gold rigs on a usual basis

>>12144874
>muh awesome rigging
doesn't matter, gura is infinitely more entertaining to watch than any vhsojo with the added beneift that she isn't a whore

>>12145480
>senzawa

"I'm not trying to start shit"
>Makes an image that says the opposite with the usage of "VS", a term exclusively used for hostile confrontation

lmao

>>12145040
isle 4

vshojo isn't really a corp so the girls can do whatever the fuck they want with their models on an individual bases
hololive is subject to rationing to save cover's bottom line and misplaced pride over outdated tech

>>12144874
>

>>12144874
VShojo girls pay to upgrade their own models because they own them, hologirls aren't generally gonna be interested in paying to make a cover owned model better

>>12144874
Here's the objective take, disregarding any consolewars tribalism:

Cover has their own proprietary in-house live2d app. That maybe would be advantageous, if it were a really advanced app (and maybe it was, a few years ago when it was first developed), but by now it is woefully lagging behind compared to what's available out there with third-party solutions.

You see this when other vtubers, who are not locked down with Cover's outdated tech, can for example freely and quickly add moving props and pieces to their model, whereas the Holos have to make do with static pngs, and have to wait around until the bi-annual official model update is doled out by the company.

This also touches on some "institutional" issues, especially comparing Hololive to something with less restrictive corpo autism like Vshojo. If a Vshojo girl wants a new model, new rigger, new props, whatever, she can just go and commission it herself and receive it in a short time. She doesn't have to ask management, she isn't locked in to some proprietary app ecosystem.
Cover talents, on the other hand, are and because the company is the one holding the keys to the app, they can tightly control everything about it. What artist you get assigned, what rigger, what props you get, and when. There's very little you can change yourself. Also there's very little you can do with you own initiative, for example the richer/popular Holos could, if they were truly "free", simply buy themselves dozens of different model updates all they want, whereas the poor/unpopular ones would be left in the dust. Cover, for "political" reasons (talent unity, cohesion, preventing them resenting each other, etc.), is against this and rather doles out model updates slowly, but more on a per-generation basis.

>>12144874
yu no rike?

>>12145619
Reminds me of japanese video game companies who struggled in the HD-generation because they stubbornly stuck to keep making their ever more complex in-house engines (like you said, misplaced pride "hey it worked for us in the 90s, when we were the most graphically advanced in the world!"), while the rest of the (western) industry has long since switched to just licencing third-party engines instead because it's simply more efficient. There were some dark days in the mid/late 00's, and they now seem to only unfuck themselves slowly (for example Squenix using Unreal, and finally ditching the dumpsterfires that were Crystal Tools and Luminous)

VShojo has like 8 members and they have to commission and pay for their own rigs. Hololive has about 50 and Cover has to pay for them. It's easy for someone like Nyanners to drop 10k on a personal quality rig, but imagine Cover commissioning everyone something of the same caliber for every single one of their members, with additional costumes too. We're talking about millions of dollars here.

>>12146543
this
VShojo can't compete

They pay with sex

>>12145414
Nta, but the only thing Hololive has going for it is the brand and half the talents. Their 3D isn't good, and god knows they don't do shit if their talents are harassed

>>12145456
That makes a lot of sense, I feel like for a lot of people (if not everyone) he is the godfather of L2D

>>12144874
>she has arguably the shittiest and worse looking one
One word. Nepotism.

>>12146615
That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying though. Economies of scale ended up working against Cover.

>>12146826
She had to pay HERSELF that shit. The Holo girls don't have to spend a cent for it. That's why VShojo will never be able to compete. Shit on japanese corps as much as you want, they know how to handle the market and dominate it, everytime they take it 1st.

>>12145480
>whores
Last time I checked, no one in Vshojo had boyfriends, unlike the Hololive girls.
NijiEN > Vshojo > HoloEN easily.

>>12146933
dyrbi

>>12146167
All in all fair points, though I have some doubts about the timescale of how long it takes other chuubas to get a good model. Kson had to wait at least 3 months, and while I don't hear much of Vshojo, I think it took quite a while for Zen, Melody and Mouse to get their updated ones. Hololive also has more talents and employees, which always makes everything move slower. Holos simply don't have the same autonomy as Vshojos.
>>12146370
This isn't necessarily a Japanese issue as it is a general sunk-cost fallacy (or sometimes it isn't because it actually pays off). High investments into something that worked may still work better than replacing it with something. Besides, dropping Luminous speaks against your previous point, as they barely did anything with it (2 FF games outside of tech demos, if I am not mistaken).

>>12144874
Holo has to do everything for every vtuber they have. Which means if they do top of the line 3D, rigging ect they do it for 50 people. Nijisanji is in an even worse position cuz they have a billion vtubers. Vshoujos upgrade their kits piecemeal out of their own pockets, so they can do as much or as little as they want.

>>12146933
One of the Vshoujos is literally married, but you're forgiven for forgetting she exists.

Rigging, yes, but every member's design was downgraded after they joined. It's almost comical.
Not that holos are looking any better after council.

>>12147015
As a whole including costumes and base, Hololive has around 200+ models they have to maintain. Each one has to be individually rigged.

>>12146915
They only have to spend as much as they like though. She likes having a nice model so she does it of her own free will.

>>12146167
Froot in particular has benefited from this approach since she's an artist who drew her own model she's just drawn herself new assets that work since they're in her art style. She also drew her own hand for art streams used in this clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPu41Ln7KKU

>>12147126
They would never realistically go back and re-rig old shit, but new costume could have upgraded rigging. The actual truth is rigging isn't that important. Gura's rigging is hot garbage, Pekora's is fairly pedestrian, and the Niji Apex dude barely moves at all. having a nice model people like is 20X as important.

>>12146826
You responded to bait.
>>12146915
>Holos never invested money into their models.
Are you sure about that?
Because if you ask /hlgg/ - whose word I wouldn't take as gospel - the answer is clearly no. >>3457394 >>3377184

>>12144874
VShojos own their models. Holo models are owned by Cover.

I don't think the holo models need much work themselves, but better rigging should be standard for everyone, in my opinion.
And Amelia has commissioned what, 3 models? Smol Ame, Bee Ame and the one she used yesterday, right?

>>12146933
oh no no no no no

>>12147279
>the one she used yesterday
that's a new model? I thought she just applied a couple of filters over her existing model like she's done before

>>12147538
ah yeah, ur right, it's her new outfit with some filters.
Still, she has commissioned and used what are essentially fan-made models multiple times. Why or how does Cover allow that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaKqn-AUOHU

Complacency will be Cover's downfall. They're going to have to stop pinching pennies and start putting in effort if they want to stay #1.

>>12147604
They never really even thought about it and no one did it before, and they pussied out of telling her not to use it. I'm sure after seeing the numbers on the anniversary they made their peace with it. The Walfie stuff actually went though Cover, those are technically "official" outfits.

>>12147604
I don't think Cover DOESN'T want to give them 3D models for instance, but it's harder for the EN girls than for the JP girls who all live near Cover HQ and Cover is kinda incompetent in the first place. it'd be weird for them to tell her "no, you can't use yourself in vr chat".

vtube studio is unironically better than both nijisanji and hololive's proprietary l2d tech

>>12147729
Can’t go to Japan until borders open.
The girls implied that getting the second outfit so soon was their compensation for the 3D delays.

>>12146915
Cover takes a huge cut of their earnings, so they do basically pay for it themselves.

>>12147130
too bad she's a whore

>>12147642
Yeah, this mogging is unreal. Especially because I think Marine, even if she isn't the most popular in hololive, definitely belongs to the most popular generation and is probably the most liked Holomem by both fans and talents alike.

A lot of people seem to make the mistake of thinking that Vshojo is a corpo or agency when it's just 8 individual vtubers under a group name with a support company that handles the behind the scenes work and sells merchandises that they get a cut from. They're all free members.

>>12147853
lmfao

>>12146915
The difference is that Cover has ownership of all their models. She could leave VShojo and keep all her assets.

>>12147925
They’re all whores, anon. Some of them just pretend not to be for money.

Because of how contracts work, it is stated they give you your first model that is barely considered corporate of decent quality which I would considered gura to be, not good no bad but just enough to be decent after that the talents are on their own

>>12144874
VShojo has like 2-3 "in-house" riggers that are all good so VShojo has a lot of consistent good rigging albeit they have an issue where some of the girls look way too similar as a result (Nyanners 3D model and Snuffy, Iron Mouse's L2Ds with Nyanners, etc).

Hololive hires a bunch of freelance riggers typically so it's a tossup on the quality. On one end you can end up with Keiffy and get a high quality buttery smooth rig but you might also end up with Rhombus on the other end.

>>12144874
I don't know about that, don't really see that much of a difference on everage and Gura just seem to have a shit luck with her rigger. On the other hand lewdcast/vshojo models are kind of shit in terms of art direction etc. I don't give much of a fuck if their mouths move more accurate or something.

>>12145049
it's not like the "company" is paying for all the models, Melody afaik have a whole team behind her with animators, managers and shit before Vshojo was even formed.

>>12148100
I still think changing Iron Mouse's L2D model into different shade of pink Nyanners was one of their worst decisions.

>>12148100
This. I don't see that much of a difference if you're comparing the best Holo rigs to Vshojo. Of course if you compare them to shit like Rhombus Gura it'll look better but that's an outlier.

>>12148285
Then the question becomes - is that one of the drawbacks of Vshojo talents' freedom?
After all, it's not like "the company" forced Mouse to get that new model, she decided that herself, wanted that model and thought it looked good. So you can't really blame the company on that (as opposed to with Hololive, where the talents do actually have little control, and it really is mostly all Cover's fault), because they're not in a position either to tell her No don't use that, that looks like shit.

>>12148434
I don't know. Which one makes the person behind the model happier? It's really not a hard question.

>>12146933
The /k/ badges..

>>12148047
Is being a house rigger better?

>>12148558
Depends how you get paid and how often you get work.

>>12144874
>vshojo models

>>12148434
None of them have absolute freedom when dealing with high profile artists that might just turn you down if they feel like it, being supported by a company means they will take the job for some no name they would normally ignored regardless of the money but it doesn't necessarily mean this company have the last word on everything, vshojofags should be aware that the artists & riggers have a lot to say about what can you do with their models etc. after that whole Digitrev drama.

>>12144874
I don’t think people watch V-tubers for their rigging.

>>12144874
guras retarded looking rig unironically was a buff for her.
imagine her debut having a different rig
https://youtu.be/7U6eHY1M9WM

>>12150337
You'd be surprised

>>12148047
>"in-house"
They don't have that at all. They may have some agreements with the guys at Iron Vertex and UTALive for music, and ArtGun got a lot of play from Snuffy's model and the girls all just wanted something with that kind of amazing facial tracking, so many went with her (Silver did someone different). There's no "in-house" anything with VShojo. Nyan and Mousey's models are similar because the artists who designed them is the same person, not because the rigger did that. Don't confuse the two.

Nyan and Mouse both have ArtGun 3D models, Silver's is by jjinomu who also did Vei's original and incoming 3D model and Zentreya's 3D model, Mel's was done by some douchebag and she's trying to get someone else now to make changes, Froot's newest one is by Onions (not onions but the unfiltered word is literally the guy's name), Hime doesn't have a 3D yet.

There are lots of riggers and designers to work with, and they don't have fixed options. They're all third party commissions.

>>12148285
Nyan has since modified her model to the point where there's much less similarity between her and Mousey's 2D form anymore. The artist has a style, of course, especially in the eyes, but otherwise they're nothing alike.

>>12144874
>>12145049

Smarr indie company prease understand

>>12144874
>vshoujo
>every model update is a downgrade
You can get better rig, but you can't fix shit taste that all vshoujo brainlets have.

BOW TO THE QUEEN OF RIGGING

>>12144874
You are an imbecile that doesnt watch either groups

>>12152960
She literally looks like a cat twitching as you pet it.

>>12153188

>>12152683
Muh VRchat models

>>12153188
That's artgun modeling. Snuffy, Ai Candii, Mouse, and Nyan also have models by her. She's not really special in that regard

>>12149772
Did you pull something from stretching hard enough to make that point?

>>12146782
Like i said, this is what happens with brands. Take a look at both Cod and Battlefield rn.

>>12144874
>not trying to start shit
>mentions Vshojo and Hololive in the same sentence
Surely you realize the gates of tribalism open at this very notion regardless of context on this board Im convinced this is either an ignorant idiot who hasn't done research or a 3 layer bait for argument of sometype

EVERYONE gets better rigs than hololive. Hololive rigs are garbage. Most indies get better model rigging.

Zentreya has a fully functional 3D rigged body. 2 if you count the gecko. And it almost puts Hololive's 3D models to shame. They need to step their game up. Say what you want about the TTS shit but the model rigging is top notch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh4eoPspb1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBe4S_XO4M4

>>12168265
lmao go have a mental breakdown somewhere

>>12145040
this
you’d have to genuinely be autistic on the same level as rain man to give a shit about a vtubers rigging.

>>12168392
Deflection won't dispute the fact that a bunch of white girls who work independently have better rigged models than the ones given to idols by a full fledged corporation. And yes, that includes Nyanners. Seethe.

>>12168265
zentreya's character design has gotten linearly worse over time jesus fuck

>>12144874
Hololive is trying to minimize costs. They're a chuba factory, albeit to a lesser extent than Nijisanji. The irony is that Nijisanji made various mistakes that allowed them to polish their production quality, while hololive is still making mistakes.

>>12168265
>2 if you count the gecko

>>12147045
Technically not a boyfriend, so get fucked Holounicorns