/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>11871334
weebs are bootlickers so they don't watch indies

>>11871334
Show me a soulful indie that is a variety streamer, can sing, dance, does great zatsudans and is a genuine weeb and not just a bandwagoner that wanted to earn a quick buck.

>>11871334
This industry was founded and built by VTuber agencies; what do you expect?

>>11871334
Voms is not a corporation, it's a cooperative business. And in any case, belonging to any group or not doesn't mean something is more or less soulful.

>>11871489
>sing, dance, does great zatsudans
what? They're streamers not musicians.
And even in hololive, you can't find anyone that can do all three of these let alone the other requirements

>>11871334
dont bring your anti-capitalist shit into it, has nothing to do with soul.
no one said that anyway. It was always Hololive specifically that is special.

>>11871562
nene

There is no such thing as soul.

>>11871544
corpo vtubers have less freedom therefore they're more soulless

>>11871334
774inc is great fuck you

>>11871611
I wish /vt/ wasn't such a hololive circlejerk and people talked more about them. I just discovered Patra the other day and she's a whole ton of fun. People here are missing out big time.

>>11871593
nene can't sing dude

>>11871334
>what went so wrong?
Weebs are the biggest sheep on the internet. They cannot recognize how soulless, greedy, and lazy a manga/anime/game is as long as it has cute waifu.

>>11871334
corpos tend to filter a lot of trash
not saying every corpo is perfect and some bad ones get past the filter
>inb4 vshojo
vshojo is a group of established streamers that were not even all vtubers and were already popular before forming it

>>11871843
she can

>>11871334
Uto and K-Son draw pretty good numbers as indies. Also artists like Nacho, Pochi and others are doing okay.

>>11871562
Kiara...

>>11871334
Indies have to only make money for themselves. Corpo tubers have to make money for themselves and the company.

>>11871489
Being Vtubers =/= Artists

>>11871950
>>11871925
yeah, but the most popular streamers are all indies, only in the vtubing industry that corpos dominate

>>11871928
>he thinks she can sing

>>11872048
NTA but I don't see the point in anonymity if you're not aiming for stardom. I can literally only think of one reason and it's not being judged for your appearance.
>>11872088
that's not true, they're all part of 'esport organisations'

>>11872088
OTK, OTV, 100T
even xqc is affiliated with Luminosity

>>11871489
do you realize that most of holoEN were indies on twitch until very recently and your next generations of english holos / nijis will be pulled from the same pool of indies that you so readily dismiss but will start worshipping the moment they get hololive slapped at the end of their youtube channel name?

>>11872306
>>11872163
OTV isn't a company.
And Xqc, Ninja, Doc don't belong to any company as well

>>11872385
Except they're already pulling similar numbers to Hololive because of their immense talent which is why they got hired in the first place. Other indies are just nothing but cope from being talentless losers compared to Hololive girls.

>>11871334
I think that corpo vtubers have an advantage over the rest because they're all part of a group under the same brand so they are very good at promoting each other. One of the most important things about getting viewers (imo) is making people know you exist in the first place, and being part of a big brand does just that.

>>11872502
>Except they're already pulling similar numbers to Hololive
they didn't.
wtf do you even know anything?

>>11871334
take your western garbage out of vtubing and fuck off

>>11871334
>vtubers are supposed to be more soulful than normal streamers
t.

>>11871334
It has been like that from the start, in fact you could argue that people like VTubers more than streamers because the corporations hold back at the more petty and drama chasing behaviour you see around

>>11872477
That's because OTV is the name of their pimp house.
XQC is, Ninja always was when popular and Doc literally works for an agency

>>11872526
except you don't have to create a company to do that, see OTV and Friends

>>11872650
so you admitted that OTV isn't a company.
Pokimane doesn't have to share her income with anyone unless it's from a group project

>>11871334
>what went so wrong?
Vtubers became "steamers".
Let me explain: I really believe that Kizuna, despite all of her shit, was doing it right. A Vtuber should be about a virtual persona, character. Yes everyone with half a brain is fully aware that there's a real girl, that might or might not be a slut though probably a slut, but when you open a Kizuna AI video it was just about watching what are the next shenanigans from the "SUPER AI".
This is why Pekora, despite being a huge bitch, is still extremely good at what she's doing. Compare her to all other hologirls, Pekora is the only one who has successfully assimilated her virtual character, whether it comes from her PEKO PEKO or her overall chaotic bunny behavior. In contrast, all of the other girls just feel like a normal twitch streamer but with an avatar. Sure sometimes they or the fans might throw a kon-muscle, cute necromancer, FrEiNds or whatever meme they can think of but the truth is none of the girls feel like a true "vtubers".
They could just switch back to normal streaming it wouldn't make any difference, Coco being the biggest fucking example for better or for worse.

>>11871334
>high numbers are the only way I can enjoy watching a vtuber
There is absolutely nothing preventing you from watching whoever the hell you want. If anything 2views give you a chance to groom them

>>11873114
Why waste your time with 2 views when Hololives offer a better experience all the time? Also im not a groomer either so im not gonna think getting my chat read is some sort of accomplishment when there's only 1 other person there.

>>11871950
kson is not a valid example. She'd likely never get anywhere near those numbers if she weren't an ex-corpo.

I want to say Kizuna Ai was when Corpos began to take control but I'm sure there's an oldfag out there that would know better. Was she the first major corpo tuber?

>>11873114
How often do you stick around or even click into indie streams?

Corpos have more $$$ and therefore had an advantage in marketing and even 3D technology.

>>11873608
Was she the first corpo tuber? No.
But the major one like you said? Yes.

Her popularity boomed mainly because she was the first to actively try to pander to the Western audience too. Technically vtubers has always existed, even more in Japan, but like everything in Japan it was contained in Japan and Japan didn't want anyone else in their niche. I'd say the group that has the closest mindset to this is the Niji group. Or, more precisely, the niji fans. But then again can we blame them? A little bit of gatekeeping can be useful depending on the context.

>>11874030
>because she was the first to actively try to pander to the Western audience too.
not really, most of her fans at her peak were in Japan

>>11874089
Anon please read. I said actively, not exclusively.

>>11871489
There is literally no Holo that actually do all of these.

>>11874145
you said
>Her popularity boomed mainly because she was the first to actively try to pander to the Western audience
which is not correct

>>11871334
VOMS isn't a corpo unless you count 1 dude handling everything who set it up just for fun (already was an established musician) as a "corporation."

What they are, is insanely lucky to have Pika get so big people assume they're corporate tier talent/training when no she is just a natural.

>>11871334
The whole thing started as a corporate entities, because of the high cost of entry. So you couldn't just do "weeb with a webcam". Which was strike one.
Most popular artists don't want to work with individuals, because of money problems and getting scammed, corporate only. Meaning that only corpos have access to the greatest (and most popular) talent. Strike two.
People started getting invested into groups as a whole and not just individuals. This in turn becomes a way to keep your audience inside the group, even when they get tired of a particular streamer. Example: someone watches Watame, gets tired and instead of switching to someone outside the group they go to Towa, because they've seen a bit of her in collabs and like her. Strike three.
A lot of big groups want liability when doing collaborations from outside the company, because of Youtube and Twitch banning policy. Strike four.
Shared cost of management and paperwork, having someone that can directly speak to the above mentioned entities. Strike five.
VShojo became VShojo for very practical reasons, rather than novelty.

>They belong to a corpo so they don't have soul.
Sounds like someone hasn't even watch their streams to make that judgment.

>>11875177
Name me one corpochuuba that has soul. Everyone from hololive feel like they're genetically engineered and not actual people

>>11874391
>which is not correct
Except it is. Without the Western audience she'd be around those, just like any regular Japanese vtuber like I literally said.
We're not talking about whether she'd be doing fine or not, we're talking about why she gained that much popularity compared to her peers. I don't know if I've hurt your Kizuna fan feelings or not but try to look at it objectively please.

>>11875218
Sora

>>11871981
But le orange woman bad

>>11875218
>feel like they're genetically engineered and not actual people
There is not a single chinese vtuber in hololive

>>11875280
Sora is the most fake out of them all, she is genuinely made to be the most bland, fake, corpofriendly and boring vtuber possible.

>>11871562
>you can't find anyone that can do all three of these let alone the other requirements

>>11875317
*clap clap*

>>11875218
You sound more like you came out of a pre-packaged mold than most holos with your black-white corpo-indie soul-souless reductionism.

>>11875405
seethe holobrony

Japanese corporations are the only thing keeping vtubers from becoming twitch hot tub whores. The english ones will follow the cyberlive 'private chat time'. model.

>>11871334
Corporate control is exactly why vtubers are a million times better than degenerate "regular" streamers. The vtuber does their thing while the corporation keeps them in check.

Now go back to whatever shit hole you came from anti.

>>11875677
Nah, sometimes the management can be shitheads that do nothing but cripple whatever projects the girl wants to do. A lot of these girls are talented, but poor management can force them to just stick to playing videogames.

>>11875222
as I said, at her peak, most of her fans were Japanese

>>11871334
So, you are going to drop your favorite indie, when she joins a corporation, because she has no more soul anymore according to you?

>>11876078
>sometimes the management can be shitheads that do nothing but cripple whatever projects
True but the downsides do not surpass the upsides

>>11871334
It's like this in every media
The biggest are often the ones appealing to the lowest common denimator, and heavily restricted in freedom/risk because of the money involved
Many people just watch the big hollywood blockbusters and never look beond.

>>11876406
yes, imagine having to ask your manager whenever you want to collab with other people.
Joining a corpo means selling your soul

>>11872502
how fucking new can you be, it's known almost all of them were 2views indie before hololive

>>11871562
>They're streamers not musicians.
No, they're vtubers. That can include streaming, and other activities that utilize their avatars.

>>11876513
>Ah yes, not like your precious indies have not signed off to Google or Twitch
The truth is none of them have soul, because there is corporate involvement in every stream, and you need to stop being delusional.

>>11877211
come on, you know what I'm talking about.
At least, indies can choose their collab partners freely

I think corpo vtubers still have a lot of soul and can feel genuine even if they work for someone else. To be honest there are a lot more advantages for a streamer to work for a corpo than to be indie. That's why all these big Twitch streamers make up their own corporations where they work with other streamers (essentially a copy of what Vshoujo has done). They have more power when it comes to dealing with Youtube and Twitch, have more access to sponsorships and have legal backing. Vtubing corporations like Cover take it a notch further since they offer their talents a base salary, have established connections with lots of big names in the entertainment industry already and have extremely strong marketing. Getting into Hololive guarantees a talent that they will do well in terms of popularity and will make bank. I will never blame anyone for taking that route.

>>11879339
>all these big Twitch streamers make up their own corporations where they work with other streamers (essentially a copy of what Vshoujo has done)
not really, Vshoujo is a company, it literally has a CEO. While Twitch streamers are in a e-sport team as best and OTV isn't a company.
The vtubing industry is just more corpo oriented than the normal streaming industry

>>11871334
Indies are awful at marketing themselves. Many are awful at entertaining men. Many are cynical lazy whores just in it to make a buck, which leads to underwhelming content. The good ones are so few and far between that finding them is like a needle in a haystack.

Corporations do the work of sorting through that haystack so I don't have to, because that's what their recruiting departments get paid to do. I don't get paid for trying to find good indies. I don't even get paid to shill my oshi. I do it for free so long as it amuses me. And if I was going to find an indie to shill, I'd expect some form of finder's fee for doing corpos' work for them.

Honestly, it's not my job to discover indies. They're the ones competing for my attention, and that means learning to properly market oneself is next to godliness. Also, I don't use reddit or Twitter, so if they're not hyped up on /vt/ while I'm browsing then I won't know they exist.

>>11871489
Check /wvt/ nigga, they go above and beyond any holo/niji/corp

>774
>Popular
I whish, anon, I wish...

>>11875344
This hag is so fucking good. Her Sekiro playthrough is the best one I've seen, easily. She's not the best in terms of raw skill, not even close, but she shows the best understanding of the game as a whole, both in mechanics and story. Actually pays attention, does character quests, reads and interprets item descriptions, tries to understand the gameplay and explore the mechanics further than just "mash R1 until the enemy parries, and then L1", it's such a blast. Also a good source of reps to see native japanese people trying to read some of the shit in the game's text that I can't figure out myself.
I'll need to go back to her other From Software first playthroughs if they're all this great. I'm usually not that into watching full playthroughs, but this shit is gold.

>>11880233
>Indies are awful at marketing themselves. Many are awful at entertaining men. Many are cynical lazy whores just in it to make a buck, which leads to underwhelming content. The good ones are so few and far between that finding them is like a needle in a haystack
Not to mention, indiefags love keeping the hidden gems all to themselves

>>11880233
I was with you until
>I don't use reddit or Twitter, so if they're not hyped up on /vt/ while I'm browsing then I won't know they exist
This board has a very narrow scope of chuubas you do realize that right

>>11872916
Pekora is still a fucking leech that will abandon Sakura, Moona and anyone else if it helps their numbers.

>Not to mention, indiefags love keeping the hidden gems all to themselves

Pretty much this since they love to gatekeep their own fandoms.

>>11871334
>normal streamers: shit and cringe
>vtubers: based and not shit
What went so right?

>>11871334
What's your definition of "Popular"? There's a few Indies that pull decent numbers. Trickywi averages 1-2k, and she's not attached to any group. Same with Cimrai. There's also Bahroo (like it or not, he's a Vtuber now).

>>11882140
>>11880233
????
Just browse /wvt/ and you see people recommending new vtubers all the time that fits your taste.

>>11880370
if her playthrough was that good, then i might watch it. thanks anon

>>11882719
It's still ongoing, not yet finished, which makes it easier to catch up. She adds timestamps to the VODs too, so you can check the parts that interest you instead of watching each VOD in full to catch up more quickly.

>>11871594
The blind man is skeptical about the existence of color.
No matter who he asks, he can't seem to get a comprehensible answer, so he chalks it up as superstition.

>>11871334
CORPO HATE!

>VOMS
Literally just GYARI and four streamers that are copyright GYARI, not VOMS.

>>11874227
And thats fine, there is no indie that can do 2 of them let alone 4

>>11880370
All of her fromsoft playthroughs are great. She is popular for her ASMR, but I like her gameplay streams the most.

>>11871334
western indies are absolutely trash. they are a waste of space.

>>11882765
The blind man will instead talk about the sounds no one can hear

>>11872143
Cope

What does it mean when something have "soul" vs. it being soulless? This feels more like people just want an excuse to shit on what other people like...

>>11884046
>soul
more freedom, natural
>soulless
less freedom, forced

>>11872672
>OTV
>not a company
Bro...

>>11882537
that's holobronies for ya.
they will shit on an indie until she gets a Hololive sticker on her back

>>11871562

>>11884182
who is the CEO then?
Anyway Rea and Sykkuno aren't even in OTV and they still get all the exposure, benefits and they can join OTV events as well

>>11884269
>Suisei
>can dance
nice joke

>>11871334
Nothing? It's expected that corporate stuff will always be bigger, and most of the time soul is directly opposite to size

>>11884359

>>11884316
Scarra is

>>11884408
>It's expected that corporate stuff will always be bigger
>who are XQC, Ludwig, Dream, Asmongold,...
the fact that I can't even find 1 indie vtuber with 5k+ CCV says a lot about this industry

>>11884475
source?
anyway, the group is a joke with de facto members like Sykkuno and Rae

All the corporations try to start e-sports teams instead of streamer teams.

>>11884611
https://offlinetvandfriends.fandom.com/wiki/Offline_TV
Even the fan community knows
It's just a Google search away

>>11884422
Holy SOUL

>>11871334
And hololive vtubers still have subpar rigging.

>>11884912
nothing says that Scarra is the CEO

>>11884578
I don't think that's comparable at all, regular streamers seems to work much more like kizuna, focusing on a single talent and building a brand around them, just because it's not a company name on the merch it doesn't mean they're operating like indies

>>11884961
That is more along the lines of Japanese companies being slow to innovate since they love the term 'if it ain't broke don't fix it.'

>>11885019
They all blew up while being indies.
The most important thing here is that they have complete control over their content, something corpo vtubers don't

>>11885140
Do they? What I saw is just a bunch of mainstream streamers with broad mainstream content, when you start playing the algorithm game you're no different than a company full of restrictions

>>11885208
stop moving the goalposts, they aren't in any corporation.
Also
>The most important thing here is that they have complete control over their content, something corpo vtubers don't

>>11885298
Not complete control, sometimes they are controlled by their own numbers

>>11885337
>moving the goalposts again

>>11885298
But they don't, that's my point, they operate like corporations and some literally are with a different facade, you're really naive if you believe those big number streamers are really just doing whatever they want

>>11885208
>when you start playing the algorithm game you're no different
You are not wrong: Apex, kusoge, ASMR, and minecraft get a bit tiring.

>>11885511
read my post again
>they have complete control over their content
Xqc could do a collab with Kiara tomorrow and no one can stop him. But a holo needs approval from management to do a outside collab.
Come on, you get the idea

>>11871334
Having ''Indie freedom'' is one big meme, indies only like to join into drama that could be easy to avoid

>>11884046
>soul
Things I like
>soulless
Things I don't like

>>11871562
Aki Rosenthal says hello and this indie turned corp "Nekono Yukino" also has her own music too.
>>11871489
Edo Lena is pretty damn dedicated to what she does. She did some gaming in the past but she's all in on the music.

>>11884188
reminds me of the HoloEN Gen 2 speculation threads where recently graduated indies were hyped up as these great grabs by Cover only for them to be shit on later when they went to other companies

I love how everyone in this threads just ignores thread tries to ignore that Bahroo exists.

I love how everyone in this thread refuses to acknowledge Bahroo's existence.

>>11885743
Yes so that they didnt just throw their audience over at someone else or plays hours of game that could get Copystright and reduce your hardwork into nothingness. "Control" is there to make sure you go steady and far. It's so the content creator can play the long game, save from unnecessary controversy, and have the best environment. Why do you think all artist/actor/musician have managers?

>>11871334
Voms is not a corporation, all gyari does is sell the character designs, doesn't even get a superchat cut.

>>11889309
Yeah and why don't they talk about the most popular vtuber, Pewdiepie? Anyone who has ever used a live2d for a stream or two is forever a vtuber right

>>11872502
Bitch, you're a faggot. Holobronies and Nijiniggers, all of you. I've watched Pomu, Baelz, Rosemi, Selen, and Fauna before they were holos and none of them pulled the same numbers they did before. Millie is obvious and the only one who didn't get on my radar was Kronii. And don't argue about the Owl because that shit doesn't add up, even her strokes when she draws are different. I keep seeing hurr durr I love Wosemi but those faggots wouldn't have given a dead rrat a chance because they're all too busy sucking corporate cock. Shitflinging between these two companies is retarded when you fucks don't even dumpster dive for hidden gems and think everyone who got into one of them is The Second Coming of Jesus then just plat Genshin Impact, Apex, and Minecraft all day.

Every fucking normalfag with no ambition and "professional streamers" you hire is a diamond in the rough content creator you didn't hire. Don't act as the EN side of corporate vtubers bring anything new.

>>11871334
These are hardly corporations, only Nijis and Holos can be called actual corporate entities. Groups like Vshojo and VOMS were assembled together by a single person, and they stick together because, in such a competitive market, it's easier to survive as a group rather than an individual.

It's like this with writing, too. The ultimate value of a publisher is the gatekeeping. Any schmuck can upload their text file to amazon but how many of them are actually able to drive sales?
That most popular streamers are indies is actually an anomaly. Corporate vtubers is weirdly a regression to the mean for streaming.

>>11892622
NTA, but I don't have time to check out 4.5 million nobodies so I just let Hololive curate it for me and pick the cream of the crop. What's so hard to understand about that? I barely have time to watch all of my oshi's streams, how am I supposed to check out even a tiny fraction of indies? Plus people like you never include examples of these ultra-talented diamonds-in-the-rough anyway, probably because you really don't have any.

>>11892841
The most popular streamers are all corporate as fuck, they're tied up in a web of merchandising and sponsorships harder than any Hololive member. The only difference is that such streamers are their own bosses, but they absolutely have to police their own content to stay on the good side of investors.

>>11871334
It wasn't like when the first batch of NIJIJP happened, I blame these en e-thots who wanna be hololive joining NijiJP.

>>11892874
There are a few good ones, like koragi_ch. But by diamonds in the rough, I don't mean just vtubers, but other content creators in the west that can be transplanted into becoming a vtuber. The state of EN vtubing is stale exactly because corpos for the most part ONLY hire vtubers with experience, and not literal randoms with unique skills. Just browse the EN internet music scene and you find a few ones. There are OTHER strange and niche communities in the English speaking world, because almost everyone speaks the language. To limit recruitment from the incestuous EN vtubing pool is a travesty.
https://youtu.be/tazwGCPea9c
For example, the creators of this fan song have been singers for years. Japan has tapped into their utaite to vtuber pipeline, and I see no reason why in the west we can't turn these people into vtubers. I'm glad Mori, Ame, and to a lesser extent Kiara is drawing talent from their fan community for projects, but the EN side of Cover hasn't done shit and Nijisanji just hired a bunch of vtubers. The only Niji I'm closely paying attention to is Petra because she does have an uncommon skill set.

>>11871489
Dokibird but she's gone anons...I still miss her to this day

>>11883215
Patra is the gamer
Mary IS THE ASMR
Mico voice actress
Char n/a

>>11880370
Watch her metal gear series streams too. You won't regret it if you liked her other playthroughs.

>>11896155
【クリア済み】メタルギアライジング
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
Thank you, anon.

>>11893776
They don't want to hire people with no experience in streaming, especially when there are so many candidates who did streaming before.

>Corperate is...... LE BAD!

>>11871334
Nothing went wrong. Retards who found out about vtubers after the christmas miracle made up that "rule".

>>11885208
playing the algorithm game still gives you more freedom, they are given the freedom to not follow the algorithm if they really wanted if theyre decently sized

>>11871334
Find me an indie vtuber who doesn't act like a Vshojo lite ewhore and I'll check them out. I've found one, and I'm subbed to her. I come to the internet and watch vtubers to escape reality, and where I live Vshojo is the standard of how women behave.

>>11883922
/x/

because most people are looking for not top notch quality but simply acceptable level of comfort food. Corpo brings well curated and perfectly acceptable level of content, but most importantly, they bring convenience. Convenience is king in the world today, it's the driving force behind more than half of the largest companies. It is far more important than price and quality when it comes to making money.

>>11914981
>food analogy

>>11911685
get a load of this fucking nerd who isn't taking his meds

>>11871334
It's completely fucked and cannot be fixed. Sorry, OP.

>>11871334
but only hololive is good

>>11914981
>because most people are looking for not top notch quality but simply acceptable level of comfort food.
source?
Either way watching vtubers is free, there's no cost difference between normal and luxury "goods".
Your point about convenience is wobbly, but first we need to define what a Top notch quality vtuber is.

>>11871334
Nobody watches Vivid. Lily is the only one of them with any views and I've never seen a single thread on her or Vivid here.

>>11875344
Patra really is super high-spec and overqualified, a perfect vtuber you might say.

>>11884578
Snuffy, Nimu, bahroo, half of vshojo before they became vshojo, even haruka karibu is getting up there
There are a bunch more indies on twitch currently in the 1k - 4k range

>>11871334
>vtubers are supposed to be more soulful than normal streamers
Whoever told you this was bullshitting you. It's all the same shit, the only difference is that vtubers pander to otaku more. Anyone trying to make some kind of grand statement about one being inherently superior or "soulful" compared to the other is full of horse shit.

>>11932246
That's unironically why I'm both glad and disgusted that VShojos or Nijis exist. Girls like Finana are a good reality check to make anon remember that it's doesn't matter if it's 2D, there's still a 3D girl behind with all the expected package you'd expect from one.

>>11892403
Bahroo started Vtubing back in like March and has stuck with it. Pewdie did it once as a joke.

>>11935669
finana is smart, she really makes her viewers think they have that 0.0001% chance to act as her human dildo, like most successful vtubers

>>11871334
they get selected

>>11871672
>board filled with reddit tourist eop fags
>b-but why only hololive?!?
what did you expect?

>>11877411
>At least, indies can choose their collab partners freely
your post reeks of
>I wanna leech off holoEN but they won't let me!!!!1