/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5758645
>>>/v/

>>5757965
V is better than IV

>>5752218
fuck you

>>5265969
>He helped with the Room-Over-Room hack which was later perfected in Shadow Warrior.

http://advsys.net/ken/build.htm
>Other features like room over room were added by individual developers

both Blood and Shadow Warrior RoR were made in a different way and by the game devs. it's a hack in the game code.
I don't know how they did in Rides Again but it feels to me like they just copied cool features they saw in SW; although failed to make RoR as well since it's used in areas which are purely cosmetic and where you don't shoot enemies through

>>5265975
Well not really to such an extent, Blood was made with a more recent version of Build that Powerslave or Witchaven were.

>>5266149
I know which e-mail you're talking about but you need to have a little perspective. you don't know the context, you don't have the point of the view of the other person, in fact, you don't know what was asked of that person, and in fact you don't even know if what was asked of him was part of the work he was supposed to do or if his contract to help Monolith extended to such an extent.

>>5265954
Or maybe the 2D/CPU thing is what they told the press because it's simpler to tell that, and really had no choice but to remake the game because the deal they got when 3DR dropped themand/or the lack of Build source made them unable to port the game to console?

Honestly I'm pulling this one out of my ass, but considering that Monolith which remained longer with 3DR did not have access to the Build source, and considering how much alike Powerslave and Tekwar are, I doubt Lobotomy did either.

>>5265942

There is Build source code, and game source code. Build is designed so each dev can make his stuff on top of it without really touching the "Build side".

Unless I'm mistaken, Monolith did not have access to the Build source either, it's actually a pretty famous thing to know they reverse engineered part of it when they were unhappy about some stuff with it.

So yeah, Lobomty they couldn't "fix" the engine,couldn't fix the controls (Tekwar has the EXACT same control issues), couldn't make it run above 640*400 without insane lag, etc etc and considering Silverman (and Build with it, unless i'm mistaken) was being contracted by 3D Realms at the time, while 3DRealms dropped Lobotomy, I don't think they could "upgrade" their version of Build either.

and considering they had a new console game to make I doubt they had time to reverse engineer like Monolith did. In fact, I'm ready to bet the console version is the reason why, on the game side this time, some things remained very unpolished on the PC version as well.

>>5265892
>Dude, they were designing that game for three years

Not really. It's complicated.
From the what I gathered, 3D Realms dropped them, in the same way they dropped Monolith, except much earlier on, so they got stuck with an outdated version of Build.
Also, while Monolith found a publisher and was able to fully concentrance on the only (PC) version of Blood, the publisher Lobotomy found made them make console versions as part of the deal.

On top of this, they quickly realized porting the game as is would be a mistake due to the lack of CPU power of consoles in regard to how CPU heavy 2.5D engines are (think Doom on Saturn)... while on the other hand making a game for Saturn this early on was the perfect opportunity to take advantage of the dedicated 3D architecture of the console which, at the time, was not standard for PCs.

So, you're stuck with an old Build version, with no support for Build and most likely not have the source code for it, and you now have to make a whole new game, which takes time; meanwhile your already outdated PC game tech is becoming even more outdated as things went really fast at that point in time.
The PC version was actually 99% done LONG before it was released.

I know the game is flawed but you have to understand the circumstances. Lobotomy were actually pretty damn awesome. You have to realize how "Quake-like" the Saturn version of the game really is in terms of tech and level design while having been mostly developed at the same time as Quake and only released a few months after, these guys were badasses with shitty circumstances that still managed to make 2 flawed yet awesome games in 1.

>>5265034
>interconnectivity and partial non-linearility is also important

These aspects are also often presented not just on the big scale (going from room A to room B), but on the small scale (nagivating room A).

The basic example of that is having a room with a central structure and the player can go around from either side. For instance the big room with the window opening showing the earth in Warp Factor... or the vast majority of Alien World Order maps have this trait under the same basic way. For instance in Bloody Hell with going around the big building, and then right after that once you're in the museum going around the toilets area.

The way WT does it is the "easy way out" of doing this, it's simple, efficient, but a bit boring when repeated so often. There are other ways to go at it.

>>5263240
A good classic Build has a layout and architecture which at the same time makes the place believeable, "realistic", but also keeps the cool and arcade factor; and this also applies to non-real places like Lunar Apocalypse.
Pure 100% realism is boring, the appeal is the balance between the two. This is why the arcade room in E1L1 is upstairs through an elevator or why Hotel Hell only has 2 rooms, and this is also where the "cool/awe" factor draws in.

Interconnectivity and partial non-linearility is also important, but the dosage has to be right, and it has to be done in such way that you're not losing the player along the way. When 2 paths present itself, it should be obvious if path A is the "main" path and path B is the "secondary" one, or if both paths are just as valid. It is also often used to make the mandatory backtracking more fun by giving a different way to go back to where the player needs to go.

Another important factor in Build is the 3D. A lot of things have to revolve on this 3D factor by having multiple floors, zones at different Z levels, etc, whether this is achieved via Sector over Sector, Room over Room, teleporting via elevators, or all at once.
The 3D is also an important part of the progression a layout should have, have placers where the player's goal is to go up, or down.

Of course there are general traits but you'll find them in every good Build map and you'll see there is plenty of room for diversity with these few traits

>>5154396
Forgot to mention, the game was only released in the US. It looks like to me this was their response to making "a Getsu Fuma Den for the US market"

>>5153747
>>5153427
This reminds me, here is one really good licenced game I forgot to mention.

The Lone Ranger by Konami.

Action-adventure game with in a western universe with plenty of different gameplay types. You have top down perspective shooting, you have sidescrolling action-platformer parts, you have light-gun parts in faux-3D maze, and even sidescrolling parts on a horse.

I had never heard of this game until recently and I was more than pleasantly surprised.

If you're familiar with Getsu Fuma Den, it looks like this game reuses part of its "engine", just like the first TMNT game did; but this time it's a very solid game and the action-platfomer parts play more like Castlevania.

The last dungeon of the game with the traps reminded me of Mission Impossible, another NES Konami game, but in a good and more fair way.

I love the Slavedriver engine.
Quake is great despite lagging from times to times. The exclusive secret levels made by Lobotomy alone make the version worth it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHVBzdixzLs

also
>Quake and Duke running on the same engine

>>5144058
I have no idea what you're talking about. You must have been trolled by one of the numerous imposters who have been trying to make me stop using this name for 12 years now.

>>5144042
Either version of Powerslave is completely different from Duke though and doesn't even try to be the same thing.

People fail to realize how amazing the Saturn version of Powerslave was for its time.

A true 3D FPS running smoothly on Saturn, with the kind of level design philosophy Quake had (3D layouts and architecture)... while being developed at the same time as Quake.

The only thing the game doesn't have is 3D models for enemies and weapons, mostly due to the fact they were reusing assets from the (nearly finished) PC version of the game. They did end up putting 3D enemy models in their engine with their port of Quake.

>>5142554
Well Done, pitchfork start, no saving allowed in a stage.

Only saving right at the end a stage so I can load to where I was last without the save glitch in case I quit.

>>5140695
Where did you get that number? The release don't even have a version number afaik.
The only 1.9 I see is DOS4GW

>>5139524
>Very cool that with it you can play with modern controls

Make sure that you never strafe run during a jump.
Strafe+run gives a speedboost, leading to longer jumps, which the game was not designed with. You can literaly sequence break in almost every single level that way, the worst offender being being able to jump straight to the exit at the start of lvl7.

I've never had your sound and enemy issues. Are you sure you're using a final release? Warez sites commonly share an old beta version of the game that got leaked before release and has been plaguing it since.
The date on the .exe should be Dec 04 1996 (Powerslave) or Mar 19 1997 (Exhumed). Also you should have music.

>>5137097
EDuke32 saves are not compatible with classic of Megaton saves. They're not compatible between different versions of EDuke32 either.

Did the glitch you mention occur after loading a save? There was a save glitch in recent versions but it should be fixed now

http://dukeworld.duke4.net/eduke32/synthesis/20181028-7138/

Moai Kun

puzzle-platformer. If you're familiar with Toki Tori they seem to have taken a lot of inspiration from this game.

>>5134175
It's not the same thing at all

Quake:
>enter a small square room
>suddenly all the walls around open up with grenade throwing enemies on all sides
>little to no room to maneuver, only way out is a hole to god knows where

This is a prime example but Quake does that all the time in varying degrees. The grenade guys are always in fuck you placement, like being your back, or in a dark corner from above. Then there are the "rams into you kind" in places with little room to maneveur.

in Blood there is always room to maneveur, or to take cover, or to go back, and the real "fuck yous" of the Quake kind do exist but are few in number and smaller of consequence. You see those rooms full of cultists on all sides in E1M5? Quake would just spawn you in the middle and throw in a couple more medkits as if that's okay.

Thankfully the 2 Quake add-ons aren't like that, and also have level design more anchored in reality.

Blood
-being based on a technically less advanced engine means they can go wild on the details and small touches
-higly polished product with tons of different small things that can happen, tons of technical effects everywhere

Quake
-all about showcasing that 3D
-"keep it as simple as possible" design philosophy. Not even a crouch of use key. Not alt fire, shared ammo between weapons. Empty levels with hardly any cool thing every going on.
- "fuck you" gameplay design philosophy, with traps for added "fuck yous".

Blood is great because of Build. They couldn't have done the same thing in Quake Engine, not released at the same time, and not without worrying about only high end PCs being able to play their game.

>>5125181
You still couldn't have both gun aiming and good walking around controls because of the way the game was designed.

I also own a copy of the chinese PC version of the game which plays like a regular FPS; except the game was unfinished and all enemies barely have AI, + wrong sounds etc.

>play with pad
>walking around is good
>aiming is shit

>play with gun
>walking around is shit
>aiming is good

The game was made before d-pads on gun was standar. So all movement is based on a single button: press once to walk, press twice to run, press THREE FUCKING TIMES to walk backwards, so you can forget about going backwards altogether.

I'd just play with a pad. It's not like the game requires precise aiming since there is no headshot or precision required.

Good game though, makes sure you play it 3-4 times to see all the paths. In fact, I was still discovering areas I had never visited 10 years after buying the game.

Metal Storm