CRT Thread

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CRT Thread Anonymous Sat Jul 27 12:23:53 2013 No.941195 [Reply] [Original]

Let's get another CRT thread going.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:09:53 2013 No.941289
File: 37 KB, 640x480, Snapshot_20130417_6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>941195

I have multiple CRT screens that I use for multiple systems: a Sony trinitron KV-14M1B for all my consoles, A Samsung Syncmaster, Gateway Vivitron, HP UltraVGA and a Tulip PC monitor for my various PCs, and last but not least a Commodore C= 1085S-D3 (pic related) for my Amiga 500.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:16:52 2013 No.941304 File: 1.86 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_20130713_184207.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 17-inch Dell CRT

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:17:22 2013 No.941307 File: 110 KB, 274x284, 1365751267746.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Ask how to best connect a Sega CDX+32X to a Sony WEGA Triniton >Not understand a single word of the responses

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:23:52 2013 No.941318 Anyone know anything about speakers and what not? Need some stereo sound to go with my PVM.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:27:23 2013 No.941325 File: 2.16 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_20130710_213047.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>941304

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:27:53 2013 No.941326

>>941304

Nice pic! Mine need to have some of it's capacitors changed.

>>941318

Get a good external amp and a pair of passive speaker if you want the best sound possible. Otherwise you have to get an adapter (like RCA→mini-Jack, stuff like these) to plug some PC speakers, but most of them aren't really good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:28:23 2013 No.941331 >>941307 We told you, Dude SCART->YUV transcoder. Kyadash even linked you to tge Amazon listing for the transcoder you just need to get the right SCAET cable for your particular Genesis. I think the 32x uses the same one as the Model 3.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:28:53 2013 No.941329 >>941326 I mean aren't really good compared to amp+passive speakers combo. Most of the time they can do the thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:30:22 2013 No.941336 >>941326 >Get a good external amp and a pair of passive speaker if you want the best sound possible. That is what the plan is, but like I said, I don't know dick about speakers, so don't know what would be good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:30:52 2013 No.941338 >>941307 >Belongs on Reddit

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:31:22 2013 No.941341 >>941326 Logitech makes pretty consistently decent small stereo systems for PCs that would be perfect.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:35:52 2013 No.941348 When using RGB/scart cables with my consoles (SNES, Mega Drive, PS2) the image is forced into 16:9. Why is this, and can anything be done about this? I don't have a remote, so I can't manually adjust the aspect ratio.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:36:22 2013 No.941350 File: 451 KB, 1632x918, WP_20130727_023.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:37:23 2013 No.941353 >>941348 On what CRT?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:37:53 2013 No.941354 >>941348 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scart#Blanking_and_switching

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:42:22 2013 No.941358 Picked up an old crt recently, coaxial input only. Picture is good but not 100% crystal clear like my 47inch lcd's coaxial. Anyway i can get a crystal clear image on a 1987 crt?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:42:52 2013 No.941360 sage for not vidya. go back to /g/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:44:52 2013 No.941368 >>941358 >RF >Crystal clear on anything Pick one

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:44:52 2013 No.941370
File: 189 KB, 640x360, 2013-07-27 12-40-18.541.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

found a sony branded tv stand for my trinitron at goodwill today. it's for a 32 inch instead of my 27 inch though.

while i was there i heard a disturbing fact: apprently goodwill (at least that branch of it) no longer is accepting CRT televisions!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:45:22 2013 No.941373 >>941358 Yes, Commodore 64 and Amiga monitors can. They're high quality CRTs. but you can't get that clear image from an RF output.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:46:22 2013 No.941374 >>941358 coax completely sucks, the only reason your lcd looks half way decent is because newer televisions do a good job filtering the noise coax brings.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:54:23 2013 No.941393 File: 806 KB, 1632x918, WP_20130721_021.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 13:54:53 2013 No.941394 >>941360 /g/ doesn't give a shit about SD TV's /vr/ does.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:03:24 2013 No.941406 >>941393 What game?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:04:53 2013 No.941409 >>941331 >SCART->YUV transcoder I don't understand those terms

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:05:53 2013 No.941413 File: 560 KB, 918x1632, WP_20130721_020[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>941406 Fortune Summoners: Secret of the Elemental Stone

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:10:23 2013 No.941426 >>941409 Do you know what Google is?

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:21:53 2013 No.941442

What a relief to see this thread. I have a few aged, bulky televisions and computer monitors laying around, and hear good things about retro games played on CRTs, but I have no idea how to determine if it is a CRT TV other than how 'bulky' it is. How do you know for sure what type of monitor/screen you have, preferably without having to rip it apart?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:29:57 2013 No.941467 >>941442 CRT monitors have VGA connections and tighter dot pitches than CRT TVs. They're great for playing retro games in emulators on a PC

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:32:53 2013 No.941474
File: 57 KB, 600x900, scartYUVj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>941409
SCART is a European format of cable that is the cheapest easiest way to pull RGB signals oit of retro consoles

YUV is what we have in the US instead of RGB, it will commonly be labeled "component" and have red, green, and blue colored RCA jacks which leads to many people mistaking it for RGB

A transcoder is a device that uses hardware to convert RGB (from the SCART cable) to YUV (composite) that your American style CRT can display.

Unlike "converters" and "upscalers" it is essentially lagless.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:33:53 2013 No.941476

>>941442

Well the fact that they are bulky is enough most of the time. You can check if the screen is curvy and not flat too (though some of the last CRT models have flat screens).

>>941409

SCART = a connector most european TVs use and carry an RGB signal (Red, Blue and Green are separated and produce God-Tier picture).

YUV = component signal often carried by 3 BNC connectors, it's picture quality is comparable to RGB, even if the signal is totally different.

A SCART to YUV adapter is needed when you're planning to use a console/computer capable of outputing RGB signal and not component, but the Monitor you're using only accept Component input.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:37:23 2013 No.941482 >>941474 Got to also mention that if you get something like what is pictured, you will also need a separate way of getting the audio out since that doesn't have a way for it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 14:52:23 2013 No.941518 >>941353 A Panasonic Quintrix >>941354 Can I do anything about the voltage that the console is putting through the pin? What would happen if I cut the pin with pliers or something? Would I get normal 4:3 or would I not get any signal at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:02:22 2013 No.941531 File: 27 KB, 310x310, 594c_1[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>941482 $7

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:06:52 2013 No.941537 >>941531 Yes, like that. Just got to make sure to mention those things when recommending people that converter. Or to make sure they get scart cables with extra audio cables coming out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:07:22 2013 No.941538 so, i want to buy crt, is there some sort of crt resource i can do some research on them?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:11:53 2013 No.941546 >>941538 I think somebody has a link to a very /vr/ wiki on them but we can give you an answer. Just tell us what you want to use it for, how big you want it to be, how much you want to spend, and how much time you're willing to put into searching.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:23:24 2013 No.941562

>>941518
Not much, it depends on the console.
The PAL SNES gets 9 VAC and after rectifying it to DC it drops down between 7-8,5V and this voltage is directly connected to the multi-av-port.
The NTSC SNES outputs C-Sync instead of that higher voltage and some cables connect the unprotected regulated 5V system supply DIRECTLY to the AV-switch pin.
This is very bad idea, but i'm not going to explain this right now.

Also in the service menu of my KV-M1451D, there's a option for a automatic 16:9 mode based on the voltage.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:24:23 2013 No.941564 >>941546 sorry for the late reply size doesn't really matter i'd like to spend under £150 i've got a lot of free time

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:26:53 2013 No.941568 >>941564 oh, and megadrive/s(nes) games

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:27:53 2013 No.941572

>>941564
>£
Sounds like you're a Eurobro so I'm not the one to ask, although the guy handing out the technical SCART advice might be. On the upside, since you live in Europe you'll be able to find cheap and plentiful RGB SCART TVs, but from what I understand the trick for you guys is to get one that will do NTSC properly since, let's face it, most of the best stuff is NTSC.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:28:53 2013 No.941574 >>941564 Your everyday 14" TV screen is worth 10 bucks.That's what I spent on my Sony trinitron, and that's the price tag for all the little TVs at the thriftstore I go. Also, 20" TVs are for 12 bucks.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:32:24 2013 No.941583

>>941572

Well if we mod our Euro consoles, as they output RGB and RGB doesn't depend on NTSC/PAL as they're just RF/composite encoding methods or something like that (my sony can't take NTSC composite signal, but handle 60Hz RGB perfectly), most of the time it's not a problem.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 15:34:23 2013 No.941587 >>941572 >since, let's face it, most of the best stuff is NTSC. yeah, apparently our genesis games play 18% slower than yours i've read there is a mod that allows them to play in 60hz which ill be doing unless i can find a mur'can console

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:05:54 2013 No.941649

>>941572
>since, let's face it, most of the best stuff is NTSC.

That's like saying that Windows is better than Linux because it has more exclusive games.

When you use RGB or YUV then NTSC/PAL/SECAM does not matter anymore, there's only 60hz and 50hz.
But on RF, CVBS and Y/C its does matter because color difference gets modulated.
RGB gets converted to Y/Luminance and C/Chrominance, on CVBS Y-signal run thru a filter that cuts off frequencies higher than the color-subcarrier-frequency then the higher frequency C-signal gets added. And RF is simply the CVBS signal modulated at the frequency of channel 3 or 4 along with the audio.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:18:54 2013 No.941675

>>941649
And blibble blobble to you, too. Like I said I live in Awesomeland so that stuff doesn't need to be taking up valuable space in my brain but, like I said, Anon asked for some advice about buying a CRT and since I could tell he's lime flavored and I knew you guys were lurking I was HOPING you might give him some solid advice on what to look for in his quest for the ideal YuroCRT so maybe you could take a break from nitpicking me saying NTSC when I should have said 60hz and actually lower yourself to contributing something useful to the thread. I'll see if I can't get Princess Sevenleaf to give you a handjob later for being smarter than I am about European video standards though.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:30:23 2013 No.941698 [DELETED]

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A SNES flash cart is just $50 these days. So they're getting pretty cheap to produce.

Why doesn't someone start selling PCBs which can be flashed with only one game?

You'd plug it into your pc via usb for flashing, and a battery would hold the game in the flash RAM.

I don't know how long the battery would last, but maybe years if it were done right.

Then repro sellers would be SOL because even the less technically oriented would be able to make their own with ease. And the whole thing would be perfectly legal.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:34:53 2013 No.941712

>>941587

Adding 50/60Hz and language select switches to a Mega Drive is really easy. I did it the day after I first bought a soldering iron, so you'll be able to do it too. There are guides on youtube which you can follow, depending on which model of Mega Drive you have

If you do this you can play all games on the one console

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:41:23 2013 No.941724 >>941675 this board is for people who know what they're talking about >>>/v/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:46:23 2013 No.941731 >>941724 He has a point really. This line was sufficient >When you use RGB or YUV then NTSC/PAL/SECAM does not matter anymore, there's only 60hz and 50hz. let's stop being elitist and just help eachother

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:47:53 2013 No.941732

>>941724
See, although I'm quite knowledgeable on US standards, someone asked me a question that I knew others would have a better answer for and so I passed it on. His question still hasn't been answered. This board is for mutual sharing of knowledge and interest on retro gaming. It's not a dick waving competition - or at least it's generally one of the least dick waving boards on the dick waving site.

So would you like to suggest what he should look for in a european tv or would you like to just keep jerking off?

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 16:55:23 2013 No.941751

>>941474
For everyone reading these SCART posts, don't get too excited. The SCART connector is exceptionally poor designed, and while in carries 3-channel component, the design issues make its quality almost always the same as S-Video (which is 2-channel component). S-Video's proliferation in America is the reason SCART was never adopted here.

So don't bother wasting a ton of money on scart cables and connectors and converters if you have S-Video ports to use.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:09:24 2013 No.941765

>>941751
>he SCART connector is exceptionally poor designed, and while in carries 3-channel component, the design issues make its quality almost always the same as S-Video
Citation needed. The connector has big thick terminals and plenty of room for a coaxial R/G/B cable going into it, if you wanted.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:10:23 2013 No.941767

>>941732
If a TV has one scart input then the chance of RGB support is very very high (i never saw a scart tv without RGB support, even ones from the '80s).
If a TV has two scart inputs then the 2nd one can only do Y/C / S-Video (because the internal wiring/switching for double RGB isn't worth the effort).

Also i gave a simple and short explanation how the technology behind video encoding works,
and i had to know this because my previous job was television technician but nowadays everyone hyping these crappy hdtvs.

>>941751
>The SCART connector is exceptionally poor designed
True, but is resoldering the scart socket of a TV that much trouble?
Aside form the fact that not everyone can solder.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:11:53 2013 No.941769 File: 138 KB, 640x480, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Here is my Toshiba Blackstripe. Manufactured: December 1975 F Tokyo, Japan

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:14:23 2013 No.941774 File: 159 KB, 640x480, 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Running. It has an ABC control, for automatic balanced color. It's kinda nifty, and it does have good color for a tv of this age.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:14:53 2013 No.941775 >>941767 >(because the internal wiring/switching for double RGB isn't worth the effort) *effort i meant high cost.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:17:53 2013 No.941786 File: 177 KB, 640x480, 3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Connected via RF adapter and transformer. Got some pretty severe geometry issues. If I could figure out how to take apart the case, maybe I could do a cap kit...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:23:23 2013 No.941801 >>941786 Aside from the convergence issues, the horizontal linearity looks fine to me. But the V-Center seems too be a little off. But for 1975 standards its pretty decent

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:26:53 2013 No.941808 >>941769 >>941774 That's some cool set you have here! Does it have any input other than RF?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:48:55 2013 No.941870 >>941765 The issue is primarily that American TV chips just work better with S-Video, and secondarily that SCART's design can cause cross-talk, especially if its 19th pin is left intact.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:03:24 2013 No.941896 >>941870 >SCART's design can cause cross-talk Weird, my crosstalk problems were caused by the lack for shielded wires and not the connector itself. Also high-quality cables are thick because of the proper shielding.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:06:24 2013 No.941902
File: 381 KB, 900x675, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>941801

The v-linearity is really messed up. I moved around the v-size and position knobs to minimize the effect. This screenshot came out looking okay, but if you've got anything like a square on screen it's extremely obvious with bowing on all four sides.

>>941808

Technically it doesn't have an RF connection. It UHF/VHF screws on the back, similar to this unit. You have to use an adapter like the one in the picture to connect an RF adapter. This adds a lot of rainbow interference patterns.

I'm hoping to get my Atari 2600 to work. Right now the screen won't stop rolling. When I can get it fixed this little TV will serve as its companion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:10:24 2013 No.941913 >>941774 What a cutie.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:12:24 2013 No.941916 >>941902 I see, yeah that would be a pretty cool screen for a VCS. Hope you can get it fixed. Anyway, that's a pretty nice view! are the tiny holes behind the tube made for screws you use to adjust the picture?

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:17:55 2013 No.941927

>>941902
>The v-linearity is really messed up.
There's not much you can do. Not even my 1991 Trinitron has 100% straight scanlines at the bottom and the top.

>Right now the screen won't stop rolling.
Is there a dial called V. Hold?

>>941916
>tiny holes behind the tube made for screws you use to adjust the picture
Yes, these are Trimmers/Potentiometers which are basically variable resistors.

>>	hoshikawa Sat Jul 27 19:17:54 2013 No.942051 >>941902 I'm a TV repairman by trade, ask me anything.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:19:24 2013 No.942056 >>941896 It's always the connector or the TV for me. The pins just aren't placed well.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:42:55 2013 No.942084 >>942056 Read the the bottom part of my previous post >>941767. I never have problems with scart connectors aside from the solder joints but these seem last after resoldering them with high quality solder that contains flux

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:35:24 2013 No.942191 File: 2.41 MB, 3500x2625, P1010571.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Here is mine. I find those vertical scanlines awful, I'm planning to buy a Trinitron as soon as possible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:55:25 2013 No.942237 >>942191 >I find those vertical scanlines awful That's the shadow mask and i don't see any scanlines at all. >buy a Trinitron Yes, you should. I recommend the ones made in the early 90s, because they look and work very good with /vr/ and light guns.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:37:55 2013 No.942417 >>941289 you got your own cubicle too, drew carey? must be a rich man

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:43:55 2013 No.942429 >>941442 here ya go, dick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:51:25 2013 No.942443 I bought a 36 inch Trinitron KV-36FS13 from Goodwill last week for 60 dollars. It looks and sounds great, totally worth the hassle of moving a 220 pound TV around.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:52:56 2013 No.942448 >>942443 >Goodwill >60 dollars I hope they kissed you first

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:57:25 2013 No.942460 >>942448 They don't just give away fuckhuge televisions at my local goodwill. But I found an SNES mini, 2 controllers, Aladdin and SMW for $25 at the same goodwill the week before, so they're not all bad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:06:25 2013 No.942481 >>942460 Nah it's cool as long as it was tested and on display hooked up to a decent signal so you weren't going in blind. My $1-$10 CRTs, at best I get to plug them in and study the mode display text and some snow - sometimes not even that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:28:25 2013 No.942565 >>942191 Excellent game, finally completed Pier Solar a couple of days ago

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:33:55 2013 No.942579 >tfw I recently moved my N64 from my LCD to the CRT in the living room >tfw the colors are not slightly washed-out, the menus look a lot better and the games are looking a-ok Feels goodman.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:36:55 2013 No.942587 >>942565 >pier solar how much did that set you back?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:31:25 2013 No.942706 >>941751 gr8 b8 m8

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:05:56 2013 No.942802 File: 1.19 MB, 3264x2448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What constitutes as a CRTV? Do those small TVs with a VCR count?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:24:56 2013 No.942849 >>942802 CRT = Cathrode ray tube. Look it up. Also, yes, the TV in your picture would be considered a CRT.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 01:25:55 2013 No.942851
File: 1.11 MB, 2460x3280, 100_3412.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>942802
>What constitutes as a CRT(T)V?
I don't know how to code but wanted to put it like this anyway answer:
if (contains crt == true)
return true
else
return false

Normal answer:
If it uses a CathodeRayTube as its system of displaying video, it's a CRT TV (or monitor). Yes, the VCR all in one sets count too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:30:55 2013 No.942867 >>942849 >>942851 Thanks guys. Before I start reading more on it, what are the benefits of these TVs for video games? And what systems apply? I was hoping to hook up my Saturn to that TV when I get back home. Will it look nice?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:31:25 2013 No.942878 >>941587 >yeah, apparently our genesis games play 18% slower than yours The vast majority of games have their speed adjusted to compensate for 50hz, so as a blanket statement that's not true. >genesis You're an American in disguise, aren't you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:36:56 2013 No.942896 >>942878 >The vast majority of games have their speed adjusted to compensate for 50hz, so as a blanket statement that's not true. The vast majority of games on consoles made before the playstation weren't adjusted, no.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:53:56 2013 No.942937 File: 24 KB, 698x672, bogs binny.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>941370 >apparently goodwill (at least that branch of it) no longer is accepting CRT televisions! IT'S HAPPENING

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 02:02:26 2013 No.942956
File: 1.23 MB, 3280x2460, 100_2127.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>942867
>what are the benefits of these TVs for video games?
Displays the games in their proper resolution rather than scaling it
As an extention of this you don't have to worry about input lag(no digital processing and such)
The "softness" of the picture helps many early 3D games not look so terribly jaggy
Essentially the best motion quality you can get

>And what systems apply?
5th Gen and older for SD CRTs(the majority of all CRT TVs, also what that VCR TV is)
6th Gen looks better on ED/HD CRTs(480p) than LCDs in my opinion, but it's just that. ED/HD CRTs do have some of the draw backs of LCD/Plasma/LED TVs

>Will it look nice?
That's a matter of taste, but I'd say so. That TV looks to only have composite inputs, which isn't the best signal the Saturn can put out but it'll still look perfectly fine.

>>941370
>>942937
I honestly have seen a CRT at my local goodwills for a quite a while, though they could be shipping them to their computer/electronic store, which is a bit out of my way; Should go check it out one of these days. At least the thrift store I head to a lot isn't showing any signs of stopping.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 02:09:26 2013 No.942967 >>942956 >Displays the games in their proper resolution I once connected my NES to a (crappy) 2000's Grundig/BEKO TV set. It interlaced the video signal, no joke but the Zapper worked fine.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 02:18:56 2013 No.942997
File: 1.11 MB, 3280x2460, 100_2192.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>942967
240p isn't an actual supported resolution for (most) CRTs, rather a trick developers used to get both fields of the TV's usual 480i signal to display on top of each other, thus making it a progressive image. It seems some CRTs, mostly ones made in the 90's on(at least that I've seen) ignore this and display it interlaced anyway. Still technically the correct resolution(240 per field), just the fields aren't aligned.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 02:25:27 2013 No.943005 >>942997 >developers *engineers I highly doubt it that a programmer could make the NES output a interlaced signal.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 02:26:26 2013 No.943010 >>943005 I meant that as those who developed the consoles, should have specified that. Engineer would have probably been a better choice of word.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 02:27:26 2013 No.943013 >>942997 >240p isn't an actual supported resolution for (most) CRTs By the time the 90s were around any tv engineer would have been aware people were using them for games.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 02:29:01 2013 No.943018 >>942956 Much appreciated, very informative. Just out of curiosity, which is the best for the Saturn?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 02:43:42 2013 No.943036 File: 16 KB, 300x271, satpin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>943018 RGB is the best signal you can get from a Saturn.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 02:46:12 2013 No.943045

>>943013
While that's true, the question you have to ask your self is if they would really care about that. The games work perfectly fine in 480i; Only a small group of people would actually notice this, and and even smaller one would be bothered by it.

>>943018
As with a lot of older systems, RGB is the best quality signal the Saturn can put out(stuff like the NES and certain remodels of other systems being the exception).
Europe has easy access to this via SCART, where as if you're american, professional monitors(Commodore sets and PVMs) are the only largely abundant sets that take RGB by default(very rare EIA Multiport sets being an exception). You can technically open up the back of a CRT and drive its gun directly, but this isn't something that most people can or should do, due to both lack of knowledge and the possible danger of shock.

I think the Saturn supports S-video, so that would be the next best choice.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 03:23:11 2013 No.943097
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I worked on the geometry a bit, and used the mysterious "if set fails to operate properly press this button" button on the back. Amazingly, it reset the power, and when it came back on the geometry was a little better.

Now, it's not truly horrible, it's just still not very good. But I'm happy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 03:26:11 2013 No.943105 File: 121 KB, 640x480, 24.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] And even though my Atari is on the fritz, it can still be there in spirit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 03:28:41 2013 No.943109 File: 127 KB, 640x480, 18.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Around 25 years ago this was the first video game I ever saw, or played. But something is a little off.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 03:34:11 2013 No.943123 File: 37 KB, 640x480, 26.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] That's how I remember it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:08:11 2013 No.943174 >>943018 There are lots more professional displays in the US than Commodores and PVMs of course - and RGB can be converted to YUV "composite" pretty easily.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 04:12:11 2013 No.943181 >>943174 I was naming the common ones that you see used for vidya. You obviously have rebadges of PVMs(Olympus, JVC(?)), Samsung, NEC. YUV is "Component" not composite.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:24:11 2013 No.943194

>>941358

late reply, but

See, this is why people don't think CRT could have a nice picture. They only think of the 80s crt with coaxial only, and think they're all like that.

You're not going to get as a good picture compared to a high end CRT television that has component and other inputs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:25:41 2013 No.943195 >>943181 >YUV is "Component" not composite. Yup. Typo, I'm stoned. Anyway, there are lots of other companies that make RGBS displays but Sony's have the most inputs so they feel the closest to regilar TVs plus dat grille.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:35:11 2013 No.943206 >>943181 I'm not sure the NEC models like the XM are rebadges. I see no equivalent PVM model.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:36:11 2013 No.943208
File: 62 KB, 798x644, sony_trinitron1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>943195
>Sony's have the most inputs so they feel the closest to regilar TVs plus dat grille

Hell yeah.

I understand there are other decent CRTs, such as the ones by Mitsubishi, and even later shadowmask displays from the late 90s/early 00s are pretty nice, but it's really hard to go wrong.

I have one 27" Trinitron and a 40" WEGA.
However, I saw this really nice late 70s/early 80s Trinitron with the fuckhuge wooden enclosure similar to pic related but has the trinitron badge with the rgb dots in the upper right corner. I really want it, but its $35.
Debating whether to pick it up.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:38:41 2013 No.943214

>>941358

Your LCD tv's coax is attached to an antennae or it is decoding digital cable. It's the same cable, but not the same signal.

If you connect a console to this system via an rf adapter you are going to have a poor image no matter how you try. It's just the way things were, and are.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:41:41 2013 No.943217 >>943208 If it has composite/line input, get it.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:44:41 2013 No.943223

>>943217
I'll check when it opens tomorrow.
A TV like that definitely wouldn't have Component or S-Video, but Composite is a possibility.

But hell, I'd even like it just for the 70s looks of it, and doing Atari or Coleco with it would be cool.

Also, the picture doesn't really do what I saw justice, the one I saw really had a lot more wood grain around it, making it almost furniture-like.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:52:12 2013 No.943234 >>943223 Some surprisingly old Sonys have composite inputs. $35 is a princely sum for a 30 year old TV though.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 04:57:41 2013 No.943243 >>943234 Large and old Console sets are more furniture than appliance these days. $35 isn't to terrible for a piece of furniture

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:58:11 2013 No.943248 File: 56 KB, 277x169, BNC-Video-Input.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>943223 Make sure not to miss BNC line inputs. These are actually composite video ports, they just need a cheap adapter. And they are a sign of high-quality.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:01:11 2013 No.943252 >>943223 Playing some H.E.R.O. on my toshiba tonight has convinced me that Atari and Coleco games play better on very old tv's. It's sort of like the relationship between an arcade game and an old beat up cabinet.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:03:41 2013 No.943254
File: 25 KB, 349x261, hero.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>943234
That's what I thought.
Hell, I love CRTs a lot. If I had the room for them, I'd probably buy a CRT each month for how cheap they are and how often they come in.

I'm actually currently looking for specifically a 20-inch aperture grille (or really nice shadowmask) CRT with RGB input right now so I can stick it inside my MAME arcade cabinet. I know a BVM/PVM or its clones fit the bill, but they are hard to find for me and pricey. We have hospitals around here, maybe they'll auction some off. I got some Pentium 4 Dell Optiplex systems from them.

>>943248
Huh. They kind of resemble a male coaxial plug. I've heard of them, but haven't actually seen one on the CRTs I've come across, but wouldn't hurt to look. Those accept RGB signals, no?

>>943252
H.E.R.O.
Fuck yeah!
Too bad Activision will never be good again.
Which port?

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 05:07:11 2013 No.943264

>>943248
>>943254
BNC is just a type on connector, not an input type. They can be used for theoretically carrying any signal. Either way, I doubt an old console TV is going to have BNC connectors; In all likelihood it'll likely be an F-Connector(Coxial) or twin lead.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:07:11 2013 No.943267

>>943254
>Huh. They kind of resemble a male coaxial plug. I've heard of them, but haven't actually seen one on the CRTs I've come across, but wouldn't hurt to look. Those accept RGB signals, no?

Not the person you are quoting, but only things I've seen them on in NA are PVMs. They accept composite, component, and rgb, and you can get easy BNC->phono adapters to just hook something that you have the normal phono av cables for as well. What he showed is a single plug, probably for composite. Component will have the normal 3, and RGB will have an extra one for sync.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:08:41 2013 No.943268 >>943252 The VCS version.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:09:41 2013 No.943269 >>943264 I've seen them on the back of many Sony and RCA units that were surplus from libraries and schools. They always had the looped video output and VTR connections as well.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:12:41 2013 No.943274
File: 693 KB, 2048x1536, sony2730 hinten.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>943254
>so I can stick it inside my MAME arcade cabinet
Why not use a real arcade monitor?

>>943254
>Huh. They kind of resemble a male coaxial plug. I've heard of them, but haven't actually seen one on the CRTs I've come across, but wouldn't hurt to look. Those accept RGB signals, no?
BNC is just a locking kind of connector they're used for lots of stuff but consumer TVs won't have them. Our PVMs are practically all BNC, for composite, component and RGB all three. Some PVMs have a big old parallel port lookin' connector on 'em that say CMPTR for it's RGB (and probably other interesting stuff)

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:17:11 2013 No.943282

>>943274
BNC, EIA Multiport/SCART, and DB-9 RGB, and those little plugs for the speaker wires.
Thats some professional-tier shit right there.

And I dunno, I just think maybe sometime soon I'll luck out and come across a Professional CRT monitor at an auction or something cheap.
Besides, arcade monitors are all expensive and hard to work with. And not much in terms of a chassis, I'm a wuss and afraid I might shock myself or something. Plus those Wells-Gardner and Electrohome arcade displays are getting harder to find. Breaking down and whatnot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:17:41 2013 No.943285 File: 133 KB, 800x600, 10688313-C7A8-43E1-94B4-F333DEB8B126-99-0000000076ADEBAF_zpsb141d3aa[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>943274 Whoops that's the wrong CRT porn I meant to post this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:19:41 2013 No.943287 >>943282 It lacks SVideo though and probably would not do YUV either. Nobody's perfect.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Jul 28 05:24:41 2013 No.943302
File: 215 KB, 2000x1339, crop_29707_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>943267
We have large NEC flatscrrens(most likely LCD) at work with BNC connectors.

>>943269
They provide a much more solid and better grounded connection than phono "RCA"

>>943287
A higher tier of that set seems to have S-Video.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:28:11 2013 No.943315 >>943274 >Why not use a real arcade monitor? A pro-spec video monitor will easily beat an arcade monitor in just about every category that counts. You know this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:28:42 2013 No.943316 >>943302 How does the back of a tv get so beat up?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:34:41 2013 No.943327 >>943316 Units like this were part of production units. They could have traveled all over the world before being retired.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:57:11 2013 No.943524

>>942587

Don't really remember now - it's a reprint edition from the first lot of reprints. I ordered it from the Watermelon site and had to wait for it to arrive from China with all the others. I think it was somewhere between £35-50 including the shipping

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:21:12 2013 No.943556

crt threads are fucking depressing for me, my parents threw out our old metz crt with scart input, can't remember how big it was but it was around 40" I guess. it cost $5000 and they just threw it in the fucking trash because they didn't think I would want it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:23:12 2013 No.943557 Is there a way that I can run VGA into composite without lag? I like to take my laptop out and play emulators with my friends, but they all have CRTs or HD sets without VGA.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:26:42 2013 No.943560 >>943524 Is it actually a good game?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:35:42 2013 No.943569 File: 36 KB, 297x356, 1311014358356.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>943556

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:50:12 2013 No.943590

>>943560

Very much so. The start is slow, and there are some parts of the game that leave you wondering what you're meant to do next. At a few points there are concealed entrances (e.g. behind a tree, sideways into a wall) you have to find to proceed which are a bit unfair given you have to deal with the random encounters while you're searching.

Maybe these things are to be expected of a 16-bit RPG, though. The battle system is fun, the characters are great and the story really takes off if you stick with it. The game is a lot darker than it seems when you start out your adventure in Reja Town. Overall I'd give it 9/10

The music is good, too

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:54:12 2013 No.943595 >>943590 Cool, may actually look into pick it up. People were telling me it felt more like a fanfic of a good game rather then an actual good game on it's own merits so I didn't go for it back when it was making it's rounds.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:57:42 2013 No.943596 >>943595 And just looked it up, and seems there is an "hd" version coming out for dreamcast now too, so might as well wait for that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 10:40:12 2013 No.943653 File: 2.26 MB, 2592x1936, fatlus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] CRT Monitor VGA Master Race

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 13:13:42 2013 No.943879

>>943302
>They provide a much more solid and better grounded connection than phono "RCA"
That's not why BNC is used in pro video. BNC is an actual 75 Ohm connection; RCA phono is not.

>>943557
>VGA into composite without lag
Nope. Best you can do is minimize the lag with as fast of a converter as you can find.

Now if you meant component, then the answer is yes, and it's easy. Buy a transcoder.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 13:51:42 2013 No.943935

>>943879
I did mean composite; my goal is to have an easy way to plug my laptop into pretty much any TV, and that input is on just about every TV I encounter.

Thanks, though. /vr/ is blowing my mind with all the things I never knew about the TVs that were the standard for most of my life. An RGB-->YUV transcoder would at least get it on HD sets, since less than half of the ones I come across have VGA. Guess I'm shit out of luck for SD CRTs, though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 16:32:43 2013 No.944238 >>943935 An HDTV without VGA is like a day without sunshine.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 16:36:44 2013 No.944246 >>943556 it physically pains me to read that

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 17:08:43 2013 No.944331 >>942051 In my Trinitrons the video termination resistance at the scart sockets is 82 ohms instead of 75. Can you tell me why Sony did this?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 17:14:13 2013 No.944347 >>944331 For the luls.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 23:49:14 2013 No.945148 >>943018 an svideo mod on the saturn (ntsc-us, here) is very easy. took me like ten minutes. just need to solder 3 wires, chroma, luma and gnd. unfortunately, i cant find the website with the pic rite now

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 23:56:14 2013 No.945159 >>943254 before i had kids, i bought a wells gardner d9410 27" for my mame cab. i dont play it much anymore tho

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 02:09:14 2013 No.945423 >>943315 Try finding a 29" pro monitor that can attach to a rotating mount.

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 02:13:45 2013 No.945431
File: 1.50 MB, 300x210, oh snap.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>943208
>However, I saw this really nice late 70s/early 80s Trinitron with the fuckhuge wooden enclosure similar to pic related but has the trinitron badge with the rgb dots in the upper right corner. I really want it, but its $35.
>Debating whether to pick it up.
that's the model of TV I grew up with

my nostalgia just exploded

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 03:50:14 2013 No.945607

Okay, I don't have much experience with CRTs, so forgive me if this is supposed to be obvious (and I tried googling, but found nothing).

My CRT's image seems to become wider when it displays brighter colors, so the image usually doesn't have a straight edge, and a lot of the time it becomes really annoying because it bends the whole image. What's the cause of this, and is it fixable (I assume my TV is just shit, but if I didn't have to get a new one just yet that'd be cool)?

>>	anonymous Mon Jul 29 04:45:15 2013 No.945686 File: 1.54 MB, 1944x2592, high.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] toshiiiiiiiiiiiibaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:00:44 2013 No.945702 File: 470 KB, 484x645, crt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Don't know much about CRTs. This was my parent's old TV. I'm told it's pretty good

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:03:15 2013 No.945706 >>945702 Is that 16:9 widescreen or am I just seeing it stretched for some reason? Widescreen displays often uses scalers on the picture, even the CRT ones

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:05:15 2013 No.945707 >>945702 It's a Sony WEGA. It's pretty cool for consoles of the 6th gen or the Wii, but not so much for older consoles that output a 240p video signal.

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:26:44 2013 No.945740
File: 125 KB, 800x600, PS1 crt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This is my old CRT, retro stuff looks nice but only has composite, a friend is going to sell me his late 2000 sony triniton, the problem is that for some reason in the triniton the snes games looked all greyish and not as sharp as my actual CRT, is that normal or i just need to check the settings?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:31:45 2013 No.945754 >>945686 Holy shit how do you become that good at Tetris? Anything past level 9 feels like it's coming down at the speed of light to me

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:31:45 2013 No.945756 >>945686 >writing on the screen wtf are you doing?

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:36:14 2013 No.945765

>>945740
Perhaps just settings.
Later Trinitrons and WEGAs had an option called "Trinitone", which fucked with the colors (chroma, saturation, hue and all that at once) and also specific picture presets and misc configuration settings.

Or the screen could be damaged? Magnetic distortion? Your imagination? The SNES cables or AV ports on the TV?

Could be a number of things?

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:42:14 2013 No.945767
File: 439 KB, 1024x683, DSC_1364.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

My main CRT is an early 2000's 50" Toshiba TheaterView. Picture is great and so is the sound. But it could use more bass.

My second is a 30" or so 1994 Sony Trinitron.
>AKA The God-Tier CRT

The color is fantastic, sound isn't very good though just because it's aged.

Here's a pic of my setup right now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:47:14 2013 No.945775 >>945767 Screen could use some cleaning, otherwise, that is freaking awesome. Speaking of which, how does everyone here clean their CRT screens? Windex? Isopropyl alcohol? Something else>

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:54:14 2013 No.945784

>>945775
My dad used to be general manager at a Best Buy distribution center (Warehouse). Whenever product gets damaged in the warehouse; they're told to just toss it.

Well in 2000 or 2001 an employee ran his forklift into the back of the television pictured above. They were told to toss it but my dad brought it home.

He got a friend of his to fix it, the back end had to massive holes where two forklift prongs had been ran into. Everything inside was ok, but they just replaced the back of it with some painted plywood.

My parents used it in their game room for the past ten years, they were going to get rid of it because believe it or not; the warehouse got three defective 46" 120Hz Samsung TV's.

My dad got the same friend to diagnose and fix the three televisions, gave one of them to my dad for free.

I moved the Sony Trinitron to the computer room and put the Toshiba in my room, sat my consoles on top. I've been playing Super Smash Bros. Melee lately.

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 05:58:14 2013 No.945790

>>945765
Maybe i need to explain more.

I went to his house and we started to play Wii-U, the HD things look nice and fit the screen despite having two big lines at the top and the bottom, but that's irrelevant.

Then i asked him if he had some games from the VC and he showed me super mario world and megaman X, and both games looked with less vibrant colors than my CRT.

Maybe it's just the settings but what do you think?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 06:01:14 2013 No.945803 >>945790 Are you comparing your friends picture quality to the same Wii U as it appears on your TV? Or are you comparing it to the actual SNES counterpart on your TV?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 06:23:44 2013 No.945842 >>945803 Im comparing the snes. I was just saying that HD things look good but snes games look less vibrant and greyish. And i was wondering if it's normal and i just need to adjust the settings.

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 06:26:14 2013 No.945851

>>945842
Then yes, its likely a picture settings issue.

Also keep in mind that emulation on the Virtual Console isn't 100% accurate, and video output from the Wii probably works in a different manner as well, despite what kind of connectors the cables use.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 09:00:45 2013 No.946024 >>945784 >120Hz TV There is no such thing. All TVs sold as 120Hz (or higher) are actually 60Hz with frame interpolation. This adds latency, making them unsuitable for gaming. The only true 120Hz displays are PC monitors.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 09:12:45 2013 No.946047 >>946024 Why wouldn't there be?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 13:53:44 2013 No.946518 >>945148 ? There is a Saturn S-video cable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 13:54:14 2013 No.946520 >>945607 You can sometimes reduce this effect by turning brightness/contrast down. Otherwise, it's mostly normal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 13:57:14 2013 No.946523 >>946047 Because the only source of 120fps graphics is PCs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 13:58:44 2013 No.946527 >>945754 You get in the zone. Once you've been stacking for a long time, the timing becomes natural and you've already planned in your head what to do with future pieces before they appear, so you've stacked accordingly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 14:00:14 2013 No.946531 >>945765 "Trinitone" is just color temp. 6500K is NTSC standard, and is ideal for low light.

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 14:39:45 2013 No.946583

>>945775
Don't use alcohol, plain water, soap water, or baby wipes.

Diluted Windex or a non-solvent screen cleaning solution sprayed onto a microfiber cloth is generally okay. Don't spray the screen directly. And don't scrub hard! Lots of screens have exterior coatings that can be damaged, especially later Sonys.

Again, NO SOLVENTS.

Anonymous Mon Jul 29 17:57:16 2013 No.947036
File: 290 KB, 1200x1007, PROFEEL-PRO-01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>943274
>>943285
>>943302
I didn't know these were actually PVM series monitors, I only knew they were sold as "Profeel Pro" in Japan which I guess was some consumer variant?

Would love to have one, but I would have no space for it. At least my PVM-1442QM fits on my desk...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 18:06:46 2013 No.947076 File: 29 KB, 214x293, iknowthatpro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>947036 that thing is sexy as fuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 18:07:15 2013 No.947081 >>945702 nice, just needs a gamecube

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 29 18:16:45 2013 No.947104 >>947081 But he has a Wii and no more space left

>>	stink_fist !U0WUgeiNHk Mon Jul 29 23:36:14 2013 No.947826 I'd smash a god damned PVM. HDTV all the way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:03:15 2013 No.947867 >>945767 Awesome!! Any chance that TV has S-video or component?

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:12:14 2013 No.947882

>>947867
I'd say it's almost guaranteed to. Most of us aren't fans of rear projection but if you can tolerate it, you can get really, really big SDTVs really cheap on craigslist because they're completely unshippable.

I have a rear projection sitting in my bedroom right now that I just have displaying what I broadcast on my uhf transmitter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:16:45 2013 No.947890 What's a good model CRT to buy if I want RGB out? Preferably a larger monitor. What am I looking for?

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 00:22:45 2013 No.947906 >>947867 A quick look at an online menu states that it has a composite/s-video input on the front, 2 composite/s-video and a "colorstream"(component) input on the back.

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:22:45 2013 No.947908

So I've read that CRTs do a better job of scaling lower resolution images to fit the entire screen than LCD, LED, and plasma sets do. Does anyone know if this is only when the CRT is analog and is being fed an analog signal, since it isn't being sent pixels but voltages instead, and because CRTs don't have set pixel counts like digital displays, but have lines instead?

If so, what about HD CRT monitors and TVs (specifically the Sony FD Trinitron/WEGA line) with digital inputs like HDMI and DVI, do they have set pixel counts or just "lines" too? When sent pixels instead of voltages through those ports, do they scale the same way digital sets do when being fed signals via digital input even though they're CRTs?

I ask because I plan on getting a CRT monitor or TV for the 4:3 aspect ratio to play Higan on in the RGB color space, but would rather not have to get an HDMI > RGBHV/VGA converter and a display with compatible inputs (particularly, the Sony PV series) to achieve the best possible scaling and color space

Other questions that I can't find clear answers on:
Is RGB possible via digital input? Would it be "digital RGB", or would it remain analog?
Is progressive scan possible via RGBHV?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:30:46 2013 No.947947 >>947890 Monitors and TV sets with RGB inputs aren't very big, so you're going to have to settle on size if you want RGB

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:42:16 2013 No.947987 http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:42:16 2013 No.947993

>>947908
>what about HD CRT monitors and TVs
>do they have set pixel counts or just "lines" too?

Still just lines. They convert the digital signal to analog for the tube and the way they resolve finer detail is with more lines and finer dot pitch.

One upside to digital signals is that your cables no longer contribute to signal degradation before it reaches the TV.

Some really cheap sets don't actually improve dot pitch or line count at all. They just accept a HD signal and apply it to what is essentially a wider SD tube. Unsurprisingly picture quality isn't noticeably improved on these sets.

Regardless of whether the HDCRT is good or shit, typical console resolutions require processing to correct aspect ratio and can't bypass the digital to analog stage going to the tube (analog input signals actually go analog->digital->analog), which introduces latency.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 00:46:15 2013 No.947997

>>947908
>So I've read that CRTs do a better job of scaling lower resolution images to fit the entire screen than LCD, LED, and plasma sets do. Does anyone know if this is only when the CRT is analog and is being fed an analog signal, since it isn't being sent pixels but voltages instead, and because CRTs don't have set pixel counts like digital displays, but have lines instead?
>If so, what about HD CRT monitors and TVs (specifically the Sony FD Trinitron/WEGA line) with digital inputs like HDMI and DVI, do they have set pixel counts or just "lines" too? When sent pixels instead of voltages through those ports, do they scale the same way digital sets do when being fed signals via digital input even though they're CRTs?

HDCRTs experience the same type of lag as LCD/Plasma and such because they make use of scalers, and as such aren't that great with low-res(240p) sources; These usually get scaled up to 480p.

>I ask because I plan on getting a CRT monitor or TV for the 4:3 aspect ratio to play Higan on in the RGB color space, but would rather not have to get an HDMI > RGBHV/VGA converter and a display with compatible inputs (particularly, the Sony PV series) to achieve the best possible scaling and color space

Certain GPUs are actually able to put out 15khz RGBHV(which can be turned into RGBs by simply splicing the H and V lines into one cable)over VGA, but without getting an RGB capable monitor, be it a P/BVM, Commodore, NEC or otherwise.

Cont-

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 00:54:46 2013 No.948017 A very informative video about CRT's http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=Ip6WuOvK8EU I highly would suggest you check it out!

KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 01:04:46 2013 No.948046

>>947997
You're not going to be able to feed it into a TV very easily. One option is to get an RGB->YUV transcoder to turn the signal into something the TV can handle(Component).

>>947908
>Is RGB possible via digital input? Would it be "digital RGB", or would it remain analog?
I've see CGA and such be referred to as "Digital RGB" before, but I'm not sure whether that would be correct or not. If you're sending a digital signal, there's really no room for video quality lose, so I don't see why RGB would be as stressed there. I believe digital displays would still make use of the RGB colorspace though.
>Is progressive scan possible via RGBHV?
Considering VGA, SVGA, XGA,(480, 600, and 768p respectively) etc make use of RGBHV, I would say yes.

stink_fist !U0WUgeiNHk Tue Jul 30 01:05:15 2013 No.948049

>>948017

>he demos the video clearly going over RF, says HDTVs are shit

>"Blocky and unappealing image"

RGB. Mod. Your. Fucking. System.

>scanlines

You mean "image distortion", right? You don't get that on HDTV's. You have to buy expensive, heavy-ass radiation cannons with line doublers or triplers to get rid of this ugly, un-natural distortion known as "scanlines".

At that point, why not RGB mod your system and get a HDTV? WAY lower total cost of ownership with the added benefit of not looking like you have what afflicted Adam Lanza.

>improper aspect ratio

No arguement there. If I can't set it to 4:3, back to the store that HDTV goes. Try finding a problem with your TV back in the day when radiation cannons reigned. One person can pick up literally any HDTV made ever. Even old people with arthritis and alzheimers can pick up an HDTV. I use a EDTV from 2000 so I don't have to fiddle fuck with aspect ratios.

[con't soon]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:06:15 2013 No.948053 >>942191 Is that composite?

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:12:16 2013 No.948068

>>947993
I see, so more lines and finer dot pitch are to CRTs what pixel count is to digital displays.
Then what about the pixel specifications on HD CRTs? Is that just to specify up to what resolution they can accept? Sometimes it seems like they're referred to as properties of the sets themselves

>analog input signals actually go analog->digital->analog

So would a digital signal fed to an HD CRT go digital > digital > analog, or just digital > analog?

>One upside to digital signals is that your cables no longer contribute to signal degradation before it reaches the TV

So technically, (if the above scenario were true and there is only a digital > analog conversion) would Higan over HDMI/DVI (assuming it can do RGB) to a compatible CRT with more lines and higher dot pitch than a set from the PVM series be of higher overall quality than an SNES modded to output RGB + said PVM setup?

stink_fist !U0WUgeiNHk Tue Jul 30 01:15:46 2013 No.948074
File: 55 KB, 940x1253, r1113059_13548909.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>948017

>lag
>they illustrate this with that balding dumbass pressing the button over and over and mega man doing nothing, instead of showing how real input lag doesn't affect the vast majority of gamers accept tourny Street Fighter faggots.

300 whole milliseconds, and this is on extremely bad panels. You couldn't possibly notice >100ms. Not possible. Don't fire back and say "but I notice" YOU DON'T. Autism induced placebo.

>light gun games

I can live without them to be honest. They represent a tiny fraction of games made, and when I ask you to name an old video game, the closet you'll get to naming a LG game is Dunk Hunt. Pick up a CRT off the side of the road if you want to do those games.

I'll still smash a PVM any day, and use a HDTV. Pixel definition is better ALWAYS, than scanlines, energy use, weight and autism.

[con't]

stink_fist !U0WUgeiNHk Tue Jul 30 01:21:16 2013 No.948087

>>948017

So he finally gets around to showing compnent over RGB, of course instead of using a box with no ICs, he uses an XRGB scaler, which has ICs in it. Your faggot XRGB units have ICs in them that introduce lag.

He says

>it still looks like garbage on an HDTV

without actually showing how it looks VASTLY superior. No scanlines. No comparison. Just two dudes with bad hair genetics spouting ideas with no photographic evidence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:24:46 2013 No.948093 >>948087 Maximum troll mode engaged. Nice try, bro.

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:25:46 2013 No.948097

>>947997
>HDCRTs experience the same type of lag as LCD/Plasma and such because they make use of scalers, and as such aren't that great with low-res(240p) sources; These usually get scaled up to 480p.

This is only through digital input, right? Or are analog signals scaled too (>>947993 did say that analog signals are digitized at one point along the path) ?

>Considering VGA, SVGA, XGA,(480, 600, and 768p respectively) etc make use of RGBHV, I would say yes.

Sorry, that was kind of obvious. I guess I wasn't really thinking, but I guess it's a moot point now since VGA splice the H and V of RGBHV into one cable

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:27:46 2013 No.948103 >>948074 >What is dot pitch >What are low-resolution sources >What is being a fad obsessed teenage girl

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 01:29:15 2013 No.948112 >>948097 Unless you're dealing with a multisync monitor, I'm pretty sure that any of its inputs would be going through the same scaler.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:30:15 2013 No.948114 >>948074 >i dont like a certain piece of hardware so ill destroy it! edgy. I don't like Macintosh computers either, but I have no desire to destroy them.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 01:33:45 2013 No.948123 >>948112 >>948097 >>947997 I also meant to link this. Explains some things about getting a PC to output a 15khz signal: http://pastebin.com/Lxj1G2km

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 01:38:15 2013 No.948129 >>948123 Thanks, Anon

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 02:22:16 2013 No.948189

>>948068
>Then what about the pixel specifications on HD CRTs

HD resolutions are standardized, so it's more about the set being optimized for that particular signal than it is a physical limitation.

>So would a digital signal fed to an HD CRT go digital > digital > analog

Only if you count the processing/scaling as digital->digital. There's no additional DAC or ADC stage.

>would Higan over HDMI/DVI (assuming it can do RGB) to a compatible CRT with more lines and higher dot pitch than a set from the PVM series be of higher overall quality

Probably not. You'd have scaling artifacts even though you have no interference artifacts. You'd also have wicked input lag,

>>948074
>You couldn't possibly notice

This mistake, every time... You don't need to notice the lag for it to fuck over your reaction speed. Some games (most famously Punch Out) are unwinnable if you have more than 3-4 frames of input lag. Beyond that point it requires reflexes that are physically impossible.

stink_fist !U0WUgeiNHk Tue Jul 30 02:28:15 2013 No.948196

>>948189

3-4 f/s? You're serious? Really? Cause I keep hearing "300ms" which is around 1/fs. Not noticeable. Again, 300ms is *the extreme*, not the norm.

I remain unconvinced, and enjoy my hyper-defined pixels w/o scanline distortion.

See this guy should have made that shitty video, not those assholes. He has a somewhat reasoned argument that I will admit come close but not cigar convinces me CRT's are better.

It comes down to input lag, and once affordable OLEDs hit the market there will be approximately zero argument against panels.

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 02:33:15 2013 No.948201

>>948196
>Cause I keep hearing "300ms" which is around 1/fs

You can't be serious. It's just simple math. One frame is one-sixtieth of a second. 1 divided by 60 is approximately .016. Mutliply that by a thousand and you get 16 milliseconds per frame. You can do the rest by yourself.

>>	stink_fist !U0WUgeiNHk Tue Jul 30 02:36:45 2013 No.948208 >>948201 So now it's 16ms? I'm even less impressed now by the lag arguement. Imma bust up a PVM on cam.

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 02:40:46 2013 No.948213

>>948208
One frame of lag is approximately 16 milliseconds. If most HDTVs, as you say, have about 100 milliseconds of lag that's a frame loss of...come on, you can do it.

I realize you're pretending to be a huge idiot, but this it taking it a bit too far.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 02:44:16 2013 No.948220

>>948196
>"300ms" which is around 1/fs
300ms would be closer to 18 frames, assuming 60fps, 9 frames assuming 30.
300 also happens to be such an outlier that extreme wouldn't begin to describe it.

That said, the average TV(not Monitor) on the market has 50+ms of input lag in optimal conditions(displaying "native resolution"). This is made even worse when feeding a lower resolution, even if it's 480p or 720p, let alone 240 that most old systems would put out; 3-4 frames of delay for Punch-Out would be by no means that far of a stretch.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 02:45:15 2013 No.948221 >>948196 1 sec = 1000ms, 60 frames per sec = roughly 16.7ms per frame lrn2math

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 02:54:46 2013 No.948241

>>948189
>Only if you count the processing/scaling as digital->digital

Ok, so it would go digital > process/scale > analog with a digital signal. Does that mean with an analog signal, it actually goes analog > digital > process/scale > analog?

>You'd have scaling artifacts even though you have no interference artifacts

I'm confused, aren't analog signals also scaled, or did i misunderstand >>948112 ? If they are, are they not subject to scaling artifacts as well? And about the artifacts caused by interference, will there always be some over an analog signal (no matter how small), or only over exceptionally lengthy runs?

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 03:07:15 2013 No.948265

>>948241
>Does that mean with an analog signal, it actually goes analog > digital > process/scale > analog?

Yep.

>aren't analog signals also scaled

Not to the PVM you used as comparison.

>And about the artifacts caused by interference, will there always be some over an analog signal

In theory yes (even in the millimeters between the DAC and tube inside the TV). In practical terms you don't perceive them unless the interference is fairly significant.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 03:09:16 2013 No.948275

>>948241
The digital signal the PC would be feeding would not be affected by interference, but scaling the graphics of the game in the emulator up to your display resolution is where the scaling artifacts would come into play. The PVM displaying the games native resolution would not be affected.

>And about the artifacts caused by interference, will there always be some over an analog signal (no matter how small), or only over exceptionally lengthy runs?
There will always be some minute amount of interference, but unless you're sending the signal over extremely long runs, over terribly shielded cables, or if you live next to a radio station, it will be unnoticeable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 03:13:15 2013 No.948284 >>945607 This is caused by age and a weak power supply. It can be fixed, but it is an involved process. But, some warping is normal. How much are we talking of the screen area? And turn down your contrast.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 03:29:46 2013 No.948308 Digital RGB exists. That's what TTL displays use. And of course HDMI And DVI are both. I think that there -might- have been a few early EDTVs that featured a DVI input on the back. If you sent 240p video to it ???

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 03:41:15 2013 No.948329

>>948265
>>948275

Alright, since there will be some interference due to the internal DAC anyway, I'm convinced that just a little more over the typical conditions and running length between source and display is negligible

>but scaling the graphics of the game in the emulator up to your display resolution is where the scaling artifacts would come into play

I was under the impression that HD CRTs didn't have set resolutions and were capable of accepting a range of them. So what would the "display resolution" be that the emulator scales to, whatever the GPU was set to? What if, theoretically, the GPU could be set to output 240p to match the SNES's native output resolution, would there be no scaling then, and thus no artifacts?

Forgive me if I'm running around in circles here or something's not getting through my thick skull

KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 03:51:46 2013 No.948339

>>948329
>I was under the impression that HD CRTs didn't have set resolutions and were capable of accepting a range of them
They have a minimum. The lowest they'll display to my knowledge is 480p, and as a ~31khz signal, and most often go up to 1080i.

>What if, theoretically, the GPU could be set to output 240p to match the SNES's native output resolution, would there be no scaling then, and thus no artifacts?
That's what I mentioned in >>947997 and what the pastebin in >>948123 entails.

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 04:01:15 2013 No.948349

>>948339
>That's what I mentioned in >>947997 and what the pastebin in >>948123 entails.

Sorry, I had that open in a tab open for a while now but wanted to get all of my questions out in this thread before it died - I don't know how long threads usually last here on /vr/, and this one looked like it was nearing its end. I'll go read up and hopefully not have to come back with more questions than answers. Thanks again.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Jul 30 04:13:16 2013 No.948359

>>948349
>wanted to get all of my questions out in this thread before it died
I doubt this one is going to do the same thing, but the one for before this one lasted a full month, give or take a day.

/vr/ is a pretty slow board, and these threads last for about a week at a time, and pop up relatively quickly when the old one dies.

Don't feel bad about having a lot of questions; Being curious and searching out answers is the only way you'll be able to learn anything new. I wouldn't know most of this stuff if it hadn't been for these threads(as well as those on /v/) getting me more interested; I still don't completely understand a nice bit of what those CGA anons a few threads ago were talking about, but it that gives me something new to learn.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 05:38:45 2013 No.948423 >>946523 What is screen flickering.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 06:39:15 2013 No.948480 What about a scanline generator with a television that has 'black frame insertion'?

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 08:28:46 2013 No.948598

>>948423
How is that comment relevant?

>>948480
Black frame insertion adds latency. If you're emulating you can emulate at high speed to compensate. Also AFAIK you can't get hardware black frame insertion in consumer TVs, only very expensive studio monitors, which are not designed for low latency.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 10:33:45 2013 No.948793 >>948598 Because it doesn't matter if the source outputs 120 FPS, the TV's update rate is separate from that. A 120 hz monitor shows every frame of a 60 FPS source twice, but is easier on the eyes because it updates faster and thus flickers less.

Anonymous Tue Jul 30 11:15:11 2013 No.948876

>>948793
Frame doubling in that way causes ugly ghost images, generated by the same mechanism as sample-and-hold blur. Not surprisingly, "120Hz" TVs don't actually do that, and instead generated interpolated frames. This can both increase and decrease motion quality depending on how easy to interpolate the source is, but it always adds a lot of latency.

True 120fps on 120Hz, as is possible with PC monitors and nothing else, does not have any of these problems.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 12:18:41 2013 No.948959 >>948049 >have what afflicted Adam Lanza. Oh it's this troll again.

15.7 Khz Tue Jul 30 13:40:11 2013 No.949095

>>948339
I wrote that pastebin copypasta. Reminder that snes is 224p and the menu of Secret of Mana is 512 not 256.

Google your monitor to find its horizontal frequency range. I have an NEC with BNC but the lowest it takes is 27 Khz...not 31. Every monitor is different. TVs are monitors with a set 15.7 Khz frequency...the pastebin needs updating since Sony TVs have a real range up to 16 something. 24 Khz is useful for mid resokution games like Gradius III. More when not on phone.

>>	15.7 Khz Tue Jul 30 13:45:11 2013 No.949105 Find your monitor frequency range at http://www.monitorworld.com/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 13:53:41 2013 No.949127 >>949095 >snes is 224p Half true, games can set it to 240p. But every NTSC game uses 224p to get more vblank time without risking black bars because of the overscan, but most PAL games use 240p to reduce the 50hz letterbox.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 13:54:42 2013 No.949129 File: 79 KB, 446x700, 666666.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>941195

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 13:58:12 2013 No.949139 >>949129 >>>/b/

>>	15.7 Khz Tue Jul 30 14:07:41 2013 No.949153 >>949127 No one concerned with 15.7 Khz emulation on CRTs cares about any vertical frequency lower than Mortal Kombat and R Type

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 30 20:00:34 2013 No.949893 >>947826 >>948049 >>948074 >>948087 >>948196 >>948208 lol

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 08:28:20 2013 No.951136
File: 186 KB, 535x564, Doom.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So I played zDoom in a computer that wasn't mine and was attached to a CRT and thought it looked fantastic.
I have a dumb question though, is using a CRT without any actual consoles a good idea? Either a CRT monitor with emulation or a CRT TV connected to a computer one way or another. Or is one of those things that requre an actual console?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 08:42:21 2013 No.951172 >>951136 You can use computers with them too. Some computers only look nice on CRTs (as some of them were made to use TVs as monitors).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 08:44:50 2013 No.951176 >>951136 It's a great idea. You do not require an actual console, assuming your emulator is configured correctly.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 08:45:20 2013 No.951179

>>951136

You can use computers with them too. Some computers only look nice on CRTs (as some of them were made to use TVs as monitors).

Also, some computer monitors like the NEC multisync PC monitors and Commodore 64 & Amiga monitors are considered as pretty good monitors.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 08:50:50 2013 No.951190
File: 188 KB, 799x596, DOSBox 0.74, Cpu speed max 100% cycles, Frameskip 0, Program CDSHOCK_2012-09-28_14-23-51.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>951176
And what configurations would that be for example?

>>951179
I don't think I can allow myself to be too picky when it comes to monitors because I live in a country where it might be harder to find these and I'm just a little tight on budget this month.
Are there any guidelines on picking a CRT? Anything I should look out for?

I was thinking of either getting a CRT monitor for emulation and dos games and connect a seperate computer to use as an emulation front end or connecting a Wii or something for emulation.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 09:04:50 2013 No.951214

>>951136
>CRT monitor with emulation
At a PC resolution, you'll have improved picture response time and colors/blacks, but that's it. Scaler latency ("input lag") will not be an issue at any supported res, as well.

>CRT TV connected to a computer one way or another
A CRT HDTV will behave the same as a CRT monitor, with the exception that you should output one of the TV's natively scanned resolutions, probably 480p or 1080i, and make sure it's displayed that way on the TV to eliminate/reduce scaler latency.

A CRT SDTV would be ideal if you can feed it the right SD signal without going through a scan converter. It will look the closest to using the original console on the same TV, with natural scanlines and everything.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 09:07:50 2013 No.951218

>>951214
>but that's it
You're missing the most important benefit, the lack of sample-and-hold blur. Motion looks much sharper than on an LCD. This has nothing to do with "ghosting".

See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/hardware/gg463407.aspx

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 09:11:51 2013 No.951219

>>951214
I'm not too knowledgable on the subject so some of the things you said went over my head but you're saying a CRT SDTV would be the ideal choice? Keep in mind I am actually looking for what would be ideal for an emulation front-end. I've yet to do research on how to connect it yet so I'm not too sure if it's possible to connect to an SDTV without any sort of converter.
It's why I brought up the Wii because I understood a lot of people use it for emulation.
(Sorry if some of the questions I'm asking seem dumb, I'm willing to learn).

Also, I looked into the NEC Multisync, the first one I found was way too expensive (like more than 10 thousand dollar) but as I scrolled down the page I managed to find one that seems decent at around 300$ which is still a little expensive but not too terrible.

15.7 Khz Wed Jul 31 09:14:20 2013 No.951223

The only monitors that are not multisync are the CRT TVs that everyone covets. Monitorworld will tell you the true multisync frequency range of your CRT computer monitor. People only call them "multisync" in reference to gaming if they go as low as 15 Khz.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 09:23:50 2013 No.951232 >>951223 >that everyone covets That's an important qualifier, unless your last sentence is intended to apply to TVs as well.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 09:47:20 2013 No.951262 Is the LG flatron any good?

>>	15.7 Khz Wed Jul 31 10:17:50 2013 No.951307 >>951232 You're stupid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 10:25:51 2013 No.951323 >mfw I got 240p 120hz working on my CRT monitor All I need to do now is figure out how to get black frame insertion on RetroArch

>>	15.7 Khz Wed Jul 31 10:40:50 2013 No.951353 >>951307 So am I.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:06:50 2013 No.951556

>>951323
Sweet

>>951219
You should be able to find a NEC Multisync monitor much cheaper than that! But I don't know what country you live in. Do you live in a SCART country? Because that makes it a bit easier to connect a PC to a TV (not to mention /vr/ consoles). Here in the US the absolutely dirt easiest way to do very accurate /vr/ emulation is using a Wii to output component video to a good SDCRT and then, later, if you want to get even more real with it and invest $100 or so in cables you buy a SCART to YUV transcoder and some SCART cables for your real hardware (and an a/v breakout passthrough dongle to get sound)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:07:51 2013 No.951558 >>951323 Why would you need black frame insertion at 120Hz on a CRT? Isn't the point of that to help LCDs simulate CRT monitors at 60Hz?

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:11:50 2013 No.951568

>>951556
>NEC Multisync
The one I found for "cheap" was the NEC MultiSync EA192M. Upon second check it appears to be an LCD. I don't know if I can find a CRT one in my country but I'll try.

Also, I'm not too sure about which connection my country uses. I remember owning televisions before and using both.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:28:20 2013 No.951605

>>951558
Because frame doubling makes motion terrible since 120hz is double of what most emulators run. Black frame insertion should fix this and bring it back down to 60hz. This monitor won't sync below 31khz so 240p at 60hz isn't possible because that's 15khz.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:28:50 2013 No.951604

>>951568
If you have both component and scart available on the same TVs that's the best of both worlds. Emulate on a Wii with Component while you're puzzling out how to correctly output VGA to SCART at the correct frequency.

I guess there's a bootable GroovyMame CD that makes it pretty easy but I haven't bought that particular breakout cable for my PVM yet.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:33:20 2013 No.951616

>>951604
I'll try looking for a second-hand CRT or something then. I'll also need to convince a friend of mine to loan me his Wii.
Can you install XBMC on a modded Wii or something? I'll have to do some studies about that. If I can't convince him to do it then maybe I'll just research VGA to Scart. That way I could build a dedicated PC from parts laying around.

I have so many options right now that I'm a bit lost so I'll have to do some research on all of them.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:37:21 2013 No.951620

>>951605
Ah, I wasn't aware you couldn't do 240p at 60Hz. My CRT can't even go below 640x480. I've tried 320x240 and it sort of works but it ends up doing this weird upscale of 320x240 into 640x480 (Windows says it's 320x240 and the screen size definitely reflects that, but it's blurry as all hell and my monitor says it's 640x480)

I'm generally content with running my emulators at 640x480 with scanlines at 60Hz on this monitor, though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:43:20 2013 No.951628 >>951616 There's a fairly kickass port or RetroArch for Wii and it's so freakin' easy and looks so good!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:45:50 2013 No.951632 File: 100 KB, 500x652, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>941358 >coaxial

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:49:20 2013 No.951639 >>951605 I'd personally just run at 60Hz with a fake scanline filter if I wanted scanlines. The scanlines from 240p on a PC monitor will be too thin anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 12:57:50 2013 No.951657 >>948053 No, scart.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 13:08:17 2013 No.951683

>>951620
I had to mess with the timings in the Nvidia control panel to keep the monitors EDID from scaling it to another resolution. The monitor identifies the resolution as "31khz", not 1280x240 (the high horizontal res is intentional to get pixellate shader to work as a one size fits all for RetroArch)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 13:10:26 2013 No.951687 >>951639 That results in a darker image due to the CRT already having scanlines.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 13:24:56 2013 No.951712 File: 2.65 MB, 240x196, nogodpleaseno.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>951683 >video card scaling and this is why i don't run fglrx

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 13:33:56 2013 No.951728 >>951687 Black frame insertion results in a darker image too, probably darker than you get with scanline filters. However, 120Hz + black frame insertion done correctly on a CRT will result in slightly lower latency, so it's a slightly better option.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 15:35:57 2013 No.952031
File: 6 KB, 704x707, teebee.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Hey som fa/g/ told me to come here for this:

/g/ I have an old CRT TV I use that just called it quits on me, kind of. The sound still works but the picture has suddenly turned into a thin, bright condensed line like pic related. If I bang hard enough on the sides of the box, the picture comes back for approx. 1 second and then turns back into the light.

From what I've heard its some vertical whatsathing that is unsoldered or some shit. I dont know how to solder so can I just tape it or something?

Pic related

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 15:38:57 2013 No.952038 >>952031 good to see that you follow my post just like i said the vertical deflection is malfunctioning but first you should post the model numbers

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 16:19:21 2013 No.952117
File: 458 KB, 800x600, nec_cr.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

my nec gbm-70 has an uneven vertcial convergency that i'd like to fix. i'd liek to be sure fixing this is safe before i actually start working on the rings while the monitor is powered on.
basically, are the beam canon and reflection unit dangerous to touch while crt is turned on? since those are really close to the rings, and i don't have much space in this monitor to operate on them.
i also need to know what i can do to turn them at all, since the rings feel kind of stuck for me. i read that the lubricate that was used to make them easier to move turns hard over time and makes them stick.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 16:32:51 2013 No.952139

>>952117
>dangerous
Yes, very very much. Voltage can be up to 30 kilo volts, and getting in contact with with this potential is sure deadly.

>i don't have much space in this monitor to operate on them.
You should set up a mirror, big enough so that you can easily see the screen while you behind the CRT. That how the people in the factories did it, back then.

>i also need to know what i can do to turn them at all
I used carefully wiggle the ring back and forth with a LITTLE force, just force them a few millimeters in the one direction and then in the other, and try it with the others if you think that it doesn't budge.

>i read that the lubricate that was used
I honestly don't know. On my 91 Trinitron i did it like described up there.

And you should seal it if you're done. I used hot glue on mine.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 16:56:21 2013 No.952192
File: 1.65 MB, 1200x900, nec_gbm_70_guts.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>952139
>Yes, very very much. Voltage can be up to 30 kilo volts, and getting in contact with with this potential is sure deadly.
i know, but the high voltage isn't running through every single part of a crt. i want to know if the parts close to those convergence rings are relatively safe.

>I used carefully wiggle the ring back and forth with a LITTLE force, just force them a few millimeters in the one direction and then in the other, and try it with the others if you think that it doesn't budge.
thanks, i'll try that!

>You should set up a mirror, big enough so that you can easily see the screen while you behind the CRT. That how the people in the factories did it, back then.
i was about to do that anways. but i really meant that there is no fucking space to fiddle around INSIDE of the crt. pic related

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 17:06:52 2013 No.952214 Lessons In Electric Circuits -- Volume I Chapter 3 ELECTRICAL SAFETY http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/DC/DC_3.html Start from chapter 1 if you don't understand any of this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 17:20:51 2013 No.952232 >>947036 Went to a warehouse selling medical equipment, could have picked up the 27inch monster, but went with the 21inch instead. I don't even want to imagine how heavy that thing is.

Anonymous Wed Jul 31 17:34:21 2013 No.952254

>>952192
Wow. I didn't expected that i was dealing with a professional high class monitor containing fans. I should google the model number next time when someone posts it.

However i don't have so much of a clue about the voltage of the coils at the yoke, but the 30kV are not there.

Also first google result of "CRT yoke safety":
>http://www.crtsolutions.com/CRTSafety.pdf

>no fucking space
I see the problem, you should spread it apart and make room as much as possible without disconnecting something.
And you could use tape to bond or isolate wires and other stuff, also try to remove the metal frame with the fan and board above the yoke.
Don't worry about overheating, the fans are REALLY needed on runtimes over 3-6 hours and think about it that the most TV's are lacking them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 31 20:34:51 2013 No.952592 >>951323 Looks like I might have figured it out >>>/vg/43190305 Seems to work for me. Though now I'm really noticing the frame drops I sometimes get in Mednafen PSX when it run 480i mode

Anonymous Thu Aug 1 01:33:51 2013 No.953281
File: 1.06 MB, 2048x1536, IMG_20130731_232058.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I used to be adamant about always using YPbPr or RGB, but I think Y/C is good enough if your TV is new-ish.

(This is the dithering pattern in a PSX game, over s-video.)

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 01:39:22 2013 No.953303 >>952254 >However i don't have so much of a clue about the voltage of the coils at the yoke, but the 30kV are not there. Maybe someone was thinking of electrostatic deflection.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 01:45:51 2013 No.953318 File: 54 KB, 640x480, P310713_23.57_[04].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Here it´s mine, running with the effect r scanlines.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 02:33:51 2013 No.953428 File: 1.19 MB, 639x869, tvgame2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] And now trough yellow rca to my tv and this time i am not applying the filter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 02:45:21 2013 No.953454 Do any of you guys use CRT monitors for PC games, like games through DOSBox?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 02:48:21 2013 No.953458 File: 197 KB, 1024x768, scanlines.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>953454 My desktop monitor is a CRT, so yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 02:51:52 2013 No.953461 >>953454 Yes, all my DOS PCs use CRT monitors.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 03:03:21 2013 No.953474 Dosbox works good on pc monitors, but in tv some games have issues. i tested the games in rca, sony and panasonic crt tv´s.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Thu Aug 1 03:04:51 2013 No.953475 >>952192 >All those inputs God damn. >>953454 I'm not one for DOS games, but I honestly couldn't imagine playing Diablo 2 or even SimCity3KUnlimited on anything other than my old CRT monitor. Occasionally use it for emulation as well.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 03:33:51 2013 No.953506 >>953474 Funfacts: early CGA games were mean't to be played on TVs through the composite output, as there was no CGA monitor for PCs when CGA was launched.

Anonymous Thu Aug 1 04:37:22 2013 No.953589

>>953506
thanks that´s the reason, but i played some games more newer, i remember one, it´s a german game and its from the year 1994 and i have issues i dont remember the name of the game but was about driving lessons.
i tested the game in crt monitors and it worked great then i tested the game in tv and it had issues.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 15:59:26 2013 No.954603 File: 2.52 MB, 1920x1080, ibmx94qLfCC6I4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:04:55 2013 No.954615 >>954603 Real system?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:08:55 2013 No.954625 >>954615 looks shopped to me, look closely at the edges. Also the tv is very blurry compared to the screen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:20:55 2013 No.954653 File: 2.93 MB, 1920x1080, iwkJqiQoL0bBD.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:22:56 2013 No.954659 >>954603 why

Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:24:25 2013 No.954663

Anyone here have a clue why my PAL but NTSC supporting CRT TV's would be going fucking mental (extremely slow game speed and massive flicker) with original rendering and 60hz with FCE Ultra GX whilst every other emulator works fine (including SMS etc) doing the same thing, and original rendering works fine at 50hz (which is OK for Megaman 1 since I'm so used to it slowed-down but everything else...)

Having to play things unfiltered but interlaced to be able to play at NTSC speeds is somewhat annoying since original rendering looks gorgeous with PAL roms and in other emulators (dem scanlines).

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:34:26 2013 No.954686 >>954625 def a shop job.. and a bad one at that

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:34:56 2013 No.954687 >>954653 The first one was kinda convincing but this one is fucking fake as shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:37:26 2013 No.954695 File: 26 KB, 431x300, 1300730497-head_explode.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>954603 someone had enough time to make a fake crt-console shot? I'm speechless

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 1 16:48:25 2013 No.954721 >>954695 Some guy made a border shader http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=74022883

Anonymous Thu Aug 1 17:04:55 2013 No.954771
File: 810 KB, 2048x1536, DSC00229.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>954721
>border of the screen
The edge of the phosphor should be sharp and even and the corner should be pointy. But THIS looks like garbage and is a insult to the glorious Trinitron.

>>954603
I don't own a fancy modern camera like the most other anons. But this is the real stuff and also the same game. This is a 21" SONY KV-C2521D made in 1991.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 11:48:27 2013 No.957060 File: 26 KB, 251x241, profound sadness.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] There's no such thing as flat/lightweight CRTs, is there/

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 11:51:27 2013 No.957063 >>957060 That's pretty much the reason they're not being used anymore

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 11:55:57 2013 No.957072 Flat? No. Almost was SED TVs but alas alack never to be. Light weight? Sure there are they're just very very small.

>>	15.7 Khz Fri Aug 2 12:00:57 2013 No.957090 >>951605 320x240p runs at a vertical refresh rate of exactly 60.00000000000 Hz. /vr/ is wrong again.

>>	15.7 Khz Fri Aug 2 12:02:27 2013 No.957095 >>951620 320x240p runs at a vertical refresh rate of exactly 60.00000000000 Hz. /vr/ is wrong again.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:04:27 2013 No.957097 >>957095 By "you" I was referring to the person I was replying to, smart aleck.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:17:27 2013 No.957123 >>957095 You'll struggle to get that accuracy even if you mod your console to clock it from a rubidium atomic clock. You're getting into cesium atomic clock territory, and you probably can't afford one.

Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:19:27 2013 No.957125
File: 109 KB, 757x778, saa7113_pg39.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>957095
Shut up.
NTSC NES Vertical rate is exactly 60.0988 Hz .
Any good TV or capture device accepts a frequency deviation up to 5%.
>http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Clock_rate
pic source:
>http://pvr.sourceforge.net/SAA7113H_1.pdf

>>	15.7 Khz Fri Aug 2 12:27:28 2013 No.957138 >>957125 The NES outputs at 256x240. Please show me a chart that says that this is the same as 320x240. /vr/ is wrong again.

>>	15.7 Khz Fri Aug 2 12:28:27 2013 No.957140 >>957123 Can you cite any consoles that use 320x240? Superguns don't count.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:41:58 2013 No.957161 >>957140 PlayStation

>>	15.7 Khz Fri Aug 2 12:45:27 2013 No.957172 >>957161 Now get your chart and check its Vertical Sync rate when it's outputting at 320x240 non-interlaced.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:46:57 2013 No.957178 >>957095 Citation needed

Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:47:27 2013 No.957183

>>957138
>>957140
Stop implying knowledge.
Do you even know how a video signal works or how computers/consoles generate it.
And how CRT's deals with the signal.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_rate#Video_systems

In the analog video world, it DOES NOT matter if there's 256 pixels or 320 pixels on the scanline. ONLY VOLTAGE matters and valid H/V sync, color sub-carrier frequencies are also important.

Some stuff, you may not comprehend.
>http://www.ntsc-tv.com/index.html
>http://www.ntsc-tv.com/ntsc-index-08.htm

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:52:27 2013 No.957194 >>957095 You're so fucking retarded and full of shit. >>957097 Yeah, he clearly thought you were making a general claim. >>957140 WTF does that have to do with the other anon's joke about sigfigs and atomic precision? As for 320x240 consoles, N64.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:54:27 2013 No.957205 >>957060 >>957063 I was hot on the trail of a Samsung Slim Fit CRT on craigslist, but it disappeared before I could email. It was slim by comparison. 32 inch screen but with the depth of only a CRT PC Monitor

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 12:54:27 2013 No.957207 >>957194 >As for 320x240 consoles, N64. Depends on the game, the RCP can be set to output many different resolutions. Pokémon Stadium 2 has a high resolution title screen (interlaced).

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Fri Aug 2 13:26:29 2013 No.957294 File: 49 KB, 268x293, 1350237549141.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>957060 I'd tell you to look up SED/FED tech, but it'd only depress you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 13:28:28 2013 No.957301 >>957060 >flat There are CRTs with flat screens, but that just refers to the glass screen surface. For that reason, I hate the term "flat screen" being used to refer to a "flat panel" display. >>957072 >SED i cry evry tiem

Anonymous Fri Aug 2 14:24:58 2013 No.957495

>>957294
>SED/FED
Would have been great for PQ and response time (on par with CRT), but they were still going to be digital and therefore fixed-res. That means scalers. That means bad for retro vidya.

Our hopes now lie in CRT preservation and (eventually/hopefully) CRT scan emulation on ultra high-res OLED.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 14:38:58 2013 No.957535 >>957140 PAL Mega-Drive.

Anonymous Fri Aug 2 14:45:28 2013 No.957558

>>957095
Well, seeing as how 320x240p is not a defined standard in any part of the world, I don't see how you can make such a claim. Certain hardware - notably the PSX GPU - outputs at a nominal 60hz. I'd like you to tell me how the nominal NTSC-M horizontal frequency of 15750/1.001Hz turns into a field rate of exactly 60hz.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Fri Aug 2 14:53:28 2013 No.957573 >>957495 A partial solution would still be better than nothing. Imagine emulating on an ultra hi-res SED.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:11:28 2013 No.957613 >using Component instead of VGA for analog HDTV Why did this happen?

Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:17:28 2013 No.957628

>>957301
>There are CRTs with flat screens, but that just refers to the glass screen surface. For that reason, I hate the term "flat screen" being used to refer to a "flat panel" display.
One thing about these, i learned it from the experience as tv technician. That Flatpanel CRTs are way more sensitive to impacts/hits than the regular/curved ones, the shadow mask could break off due the impact and it results into discoloration that can be NOT be fixed (it looks like its not degaussed). I think it's because the mask could be not fitted strongly enough, so it can withstand such things.

Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:39:28 2013 No.957686

>>957573
Really OLEDs are theoretically capable of everything SEDs would have theoretically been capable of they're just more efficient so they're what's being developed. There would have been a slow process with getting the SEDs up to par with real crt and they would have been heavier and more expensive.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:42:58 2013 No.957702 >>957072 SED was going to be sample and hold just like LCDs. Most people watch 24fps or 30fps content, so nobody gives a shit about motion quality.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:45:29 2013 No.957712 >>957702 >sample and hold >motion quality You're the same autist that post this every time, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:48:29 2013 No.957727 >>957712 Deny it all you like, you can't change biology. Go read some of Micheal Abrash's blog posts for Valve. I'd glad not all people are as ignorant as you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:50:59 2013 No.957734 >>957613 More efficient use of bandwidth. YPbPr doesn't waste bandwidth on redundant color data like RGB does.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:58:28 2013 No.957757 >>957628 Interesting, I've mostly just heard of some geometry issues that can occur with some flat screen CRTs, but I'd never heard of this. Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 15:58:59 2013 No.957761 >>957712 This is a well known and documented phenomenon. I've seen it with my own eyes as well.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 16:02:28 2013 No.957770 >>957734 Pointless, because the console generates RGB and there's no problem sending that over the very short distance to the TV/monitor. Why bother converting it to YPbPr only to convert it back to RGB again?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 2 16:28:59 2013 No.957836 >>957770 >because the console generates RGB Other anon asked about HDTVs (and by extension, CE in general), not consoles. If that other anon was actually you, then you were not clear in your original question about what you really wanted to know.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 00:19:49 2013 No.958883 >>957770 >>957836 YUV and RGB are really similar in a lot of ways though.

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 00:24:50 2013 No.958894

>>958883
Yeah, so much so that you can convert from one to the other with basically no lag or loss of quality.

Still, that bandwidth savings was/is very important in broadcasting and media publishing, and that's why it was chosen as the more practical color space for consumer electronics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 11:43:20 2013 No.959985 >>958894 I have to say that I've never experienced component, only RGB. Is there a difference between the 2 displays when it come to the picture?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 11:50:20 2013 No.959993 >>959985 There is no visible difference given the same kind of signal, nor should there be.

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 13:39:20 2013 No.960186
File: 2.19 MB, 2351x1500, CRT resolutions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Comparisons of resolutions on a common CRT monitor

240p - 480p - 960p

All images were using 1280 horizontal resolution with Pixellate.shader (http://gitorious.org/bsnes/xml-shaders/blobs/master/shaders/OpenGL/v1.0/Pixellate.shader))

>>	Princess Sevenleaf !AnVbXjgZco Sat Aug 3 13:48:21 2013 No.960204 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutCFMc5khY My reaction every time I see one of these threads. Can't you just make a general in /vg/, or something?

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 13:58:21 2013 No.960214
File: 15 KB, 400x390, Commodore_1085S-D3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>960204

Many people on /vr/ cares about these threads, because they want the best display device for their retro consoles and computers. /vr/ and /g/ are the best place to talk about these details, but /g/ don't give a fuck about this anymore, /vr/ do, so we stay here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 13:58:51 2013 No.960215 >>960204 Solution: Get out and stay out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:02:52 2013 No.960224 >>960204 It's just ONE single thread, don't tell me that /vr/ hasn't room for this. You act like we have like 10 of them running. Also if i see a thread that doesn't interest me, then i stay out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:12:22 2013 No.960248 File: 1.53 MB, 3264x2448, 20130803_130130.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Any reviews on the Sharp 32-C240 CRT? Out at a thrift shop and need some other opinions.

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:18:22 2013 No.960269

>>960248

It looks pretty good, however the only TVs I used since I was a kid are made by Sony. Maybe you can take a retro-console/VHS-DVD-LD player and ask if you can test the set with it (they can't refuse most of the time). If you like the picture, then take it. Most of the time, if you like the pic, it means that it's a good TV.
Just don't forget to adjust it after buying it (with test patterns and all).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:25:51 2013 No.960283 >>960269 I don't have a system or VCR to test it out, unfortunately. It's priced at $39 and by far the best TV in here condition-wise. 3 composite, 1 component, and S-Video. Think I might just pull the trigger.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:27:52 2013 No.960291 >>960204 Fuck off tripfag. We keep it in a single clean thread and actually stay on topic and don't shitpost. >>>/v/

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:29:52 2013 No.960298 >>960283 With so many input at this price, just take it. According to Amazon, it's worth the price too. Just don't forget to adjust it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:33:22 2013 No.960318 >>960298 Talked them down to $25. Gonna get a steal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:38:21 2013 No.960329 >>960318 Well that's even better then! Enjoy your set, and don't forget to post pics of the display (if you have the time).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:38:51 2013 No.960327 >>960248 >>960318 >$25 Sweet deal. It's even styled like something that would have fit right into the '90s, even though it's a later model.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:39:51 2013 No.960331 >>960327 Me again. Where was it manufactured, anon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:45:51 2013 No.960345 >>960327 >>960329 Damnnn you guys! Found a pricing sticker on the back for $25 and then got half off of THAT because it was yellow. Fuck yeah! Thanks for your help.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 14:48:51 2013 No.960351 http://code.google.com/p/240p-test-suite/

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 19:15:51 2013 No.960935
File: 1.47 MB, 3264x2448, 2013-08-03 17.07.30.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Guy buying the Sharp, here.

Here's a picture of the whole setup right now. Just moved across the country, so I don't have a ton of my games with me.

The consoles are hooked up through the switcher that Deadpool is standing on. Gen 1 Mega Drive, Retro Duo Twin, Dreamcast, N64, and a PS2 on a milk crate underneath the TV.

Pretty impressed with the picture so far! "Link to the Past" looks great and my PS2 games look way better on this one as opposed to my huge HD Mitsubishi. Got sick of the upscaling.

This is the view from the gaming chair I use. I'm absolutely loving it so far. Now that I've got some Component inputs, I think I'm gonna get a Wii to emulate even more. Thanks for the help, you guys!

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:04:21 2013 No.961031

>>960935
Nice work capitalizing on your good fortune, anon!

BTW, can you tell me where and when was it manufactured according to the tag on the back (state too if listed in manufacturer's address)? I'd like to get an idea of who made the tube. I asked while you were still at the store, but I think you might have missed the post. (>>960331)

In any case enjoy, and be sure to post up-close screenshot pics if you can!

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:26:22 2013 No.961103
File: 2.78 MB, 3264x2448, 2013-08-03 19.21.07.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>961031
It says it was manufactured in August 2005, but I couldn't tell WHERE it was made. There were just some numbers above the serial number.

Here's the first of a few screenshots. These are from the Retro Duo Twin into the switchbox via S-Video. Excuse my finger in this first shot..

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:29:52 2013 No.961110 File: 2.35 MB, 3264x2448, 2013-08-03 19.21.13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>961031 Close-up of the title screen.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:34:22 2013 No.961127 File: 2.46 MB, 2448x1836, 2013-08-03 19.22.23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>961031 And finally, a close-up of Link.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:45:23 2013 No.961163 >>961103 >Retro Duo Twin >clones Why do you do this to your games?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:47:52 2013 No.961169 Do you guys look for a certain size of CRT? I see a lot of babby TVs in this thread. I only ask because someone left a 36-inch panasonic (it's boxy and black) TV here and I'm not sure if it's CRT/worth keeping.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:47:52 2013 No.961170 >>961127 That's chromaclear like my CRT TV

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:49:52 2013 No.961176 >>961169 I use a 17-inch CRT monitor, that's more than big enough for gaming. Huge TVs are more for watching movies with a group of people in a large room

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 20:53:52 2013 No.961194

>>961163
My NES and SNES needed repairs. This is just a temporary fix. Just replaced the NES pin-connector and deep-cleaned the SNES. They'll be on the shelf tomorrow.

Honestly, though. I love the Retro Duo. It's pretty cool for bringing over to friends' places and being able to play two libraries of games. The native S-Video is pretty awesome too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:25:52 2013 No.961273 How do you make a computer monitor do 240p?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:27:52 2013 No.961279 >>947036 I'm picking up the 27" Profeel tomorrow, I can't believe that someone posts this and I get it right after. This is legit as fuck

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:37:52 2013 No.961301

Sharp Guy, here again.

My Dreamcast has been doing this odd thing in conjunction with my switchbox. Every other system works while the S-Video is plugged in, but the Dreamcast won't display video while connected through the switchbox. Is there any way around this other than just unplugging the S-Video every time I want to play a Dreamcast game?

I hope I made that clear. Not a huge problem, but it definitely irks me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:40:22 2013 No.961307 >>961301 Is the dreamcast using svideo?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:43:22 2013 No.961316 >>961307 No, it isn't. Obviously, that's part of the problem, but my N64 isn't using S-Video either and it works fine.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:47:22 2013 No.961323 >>961316 On my switchbox I just have it output both composite and svideo and my TV takes both in and I can switch between the two.

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:48:22 2013 No.961325
File: 26 KB, 528x530, 240p Nvidia.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>961273

By setting a custom resolution with a vertical res of 240 and a refresh rate of 120hz. Horizontal res can be whatever you want.

I had trouble setting this resolution at first because my video card would automatically upconvert it to 480p 120hz, however, changing the timing from Automatic in Nvidia to a different one (I used CVT) made it output the signal I wanted.

Since it's 120hz, 60fps content will be frame doubled, resulting in motion artifacts. Black frame insertion will fix that issue, though it will reduce brightness by 50% so you will need to adjust the monitor's brightness to compensate.

RetroArch can be easily hacked with black frame insertion so you should be able to play most retro systems at their native resolutions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 21:55:22 2013 No.961338 >>961325 Do you have scanlines when you put a monitor in 240 vertical resolution? Because if you don't have scanlines the picture is twice as bright as it's supposed to be. That's why people say retro video games look "cartoony"

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 22:01:52 2013 No.961353

>>961338
>Do you have scanlines when you put a monitor in 240 vertical resolution?

Yeah, I'm the one who made this image

>>960186

If you don't have scanlines, your video card is converting it to a different resolution. One time I tried it, my monitor reported it as "640x480 / 120hz" and it was scaled to that resolution. After getting it to output properly, it displays with very visible scanlines and the monitor reports it as simply "31K / 120hz"

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 22:34:22 2013 No.961397 Someone gave me a free tv with no composite or s-video inputs, just cable. Wat do?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 23:10:22 2013 No.961471 >>961397 Um... Google some adapters? Or just hook up through RF?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 3 23:21:52 2013 No.961498 >>961397 Sell it to a hipster on Craigslist for $20 and buy a better tv at Goodwill?

Anonymous Sat Aug 3 23:58:22 2013 No.961561

>>961103
My guess is that the tube is a Sharp tube made in their own Mexican factory. This would be good.

>>961301
>>961316
Seriously, bypass this problem and improve your image quality at the same time: Get S-video cables for your DC and N64.

>>961397
You can get a general RF adapter unit that takes standard s-video, composite, RCA stereo, etc. Or you can get RF adapters for any consoles you want to use, or use a VCR/DVR, etc.

May or may not be worth keeping as a daily driver, but you can decide for yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 07:25:23 2013 No.962356 File: 145 KB, 1280x960, $T2eC16R,!zUE9s38+H(pBR2Vhv)v(w~~60_57.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Can anyone tell me what is up with the weird holes on the left side?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 07:33:23 2013 No.962361 >>962356 These are for adjustment. They are trimmers and look like screws.

Anonymous Sun Aug 4 10:39:53 2013 No.962580
File: 302 KB, 1080x720, Photo du 04-08-13 à 16.35.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Do someone know how to adjust the image of a Philips 21PV267/39 ?
I cheked the menu, the service mode, I disassemble the TV for manual adjustment but I haven't found anything.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 10:45:54 2013 No.962584 >>960204 >Tripfag >Linking to Family Guy video >Bitching about thread relevant to /vr/ Yep, sounds like a tripfag to me

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 10:49:53 2013 No.962590 >>962580 Forget it, I found !

Anonymous Sun Aug 4 10:50:23 2013 No.962592

>>962584

There are cool people who use trips (Kyadash and Blux are pretty useful on CRT and Amiga threads respectively) and then there are tripfags bitching about something they don't like on this board, I'll let you guess who. I think the best thing to do is to ignore the latter and have a nice chat with the others.

>>962580

Well have you tried to check the service manual for more informations?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 11:12:54 2013 No.962620 >>962592 >Well have you tried to check the service manual for more informations? Yep, but nothing relevant. I finaly found 3 tiny knob which control the image.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 12:25:53 2013 No.962717 >>962592 Just don't fall into the trap of granting tripfags more credibility just because you recognize their names. Most of the time they are at the same level of expertise and trustworthiness as any random anon, no more, no less.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 12:34:53 2013 No.962731 >>962717 Not saying otherwise, there are many anons that have some knowledge too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 12:58:53 2013 No.962774 >>962580 >>962590 So what did you end up doing that worked on that TV?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 13:10:23 2013 No.962794 Here's a useful guide to people who want to connect a TV to a computer with a VGA to SCART adapter http://www.geocities[dot]ws/podernixie/htpc/modes-en.html http://www.geocities[dot]ws/podernixie/htpc/cables-en.html

>>	D10 !Y.iy56Mbz2 Sun Aug 4 13:33:53 2013 No.962831 I see CRT's all the time on the block in my part of So Cal. Also see them on craigslist free section.

Anonymous Sun Aug 4 14:29:54 2013 No.962964

>>962592
>>962717
>>962731
I've noticed KyaDash repeating some of my posts from these CRT threads practically ver batim and I have no doubt some other key Anons have noticed this as well (you know who you are) but that's cool. I'm glad he's learning and he doesn't necessarily claim any of it as his intellectual property, or any more than is implied simply by being a tripfag in a sea of Anons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 14:31:23 2013 No.962973 >>962831 Yeah well see, you live in the video production mecca of the world. There will be more surplus pro CRTs there than anywhere else. You should collect them and give them away for actual shipping cost only to Anons in need.

Anonymous Sun Aug 4 14:38:53 2013 No.962993

So does anyone know how to fix a screen that expands out of the borders when bright colors are displayed?

It also has some deformation in the top left corner, kind of like a CRT monitor's pincushion setting, but no other corner shows it.

I'd get a picture, but my only camera is this DSi I just fixed, and it's dead without a charger yet.

KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Aug 4 14:43:23 2013 No.963013

>>962964
I'll be the first to admit that most of what I know, CRT-wise, I've learned from various anons/links from anons. Hell, it'd be a rare day that I don't double check something on foolz to make sure I'm not sending some poor fool(no offense, I mean this in the "uninformed" definition, not stupid) down a path that will result in them frying their equipment.

The verbatim bit would likely come from my oddly specific good memory; At least when I'm not going for straight copypasta, which I try to note when doing so.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Sun Aug 4 15:11:23 2013 No.963087 >>962973 >20L5 about to go for ~$40 on ebay(Wouldn't be surprised to see it hit 60+ before it ends) >Local Pickup only >Burbank, California God damn it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 16:32:24 2013 No.963294 What's the best way to convert the PS2's Sync-On-Green RGB to RGBHV?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 16:52:25 2013 No.963347 >>963294 Buy a sync separator. They're pretty simple, usually based around an LM1881 IC.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 19:13:55 2013 No.963821 File: 128 KB, 1661x1324, 1600SU[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Should I pick up a JVC TM-2000su for $75 in my area? What's a reliable converter to connect my PC through s-video?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 19:24:24 2013 No.963849 >>962774 See >>962620

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 21:27:55 2013 No.964240 >>963821 A video card with an SVideo port.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 4 22:10:54 2013 No.964324 >>963821 $75 for an old pro monitor with no RGB or component input is much more than I would pay. S-video probably looks great on it but it's still not going to match an RGB signal fed to a monitor of the same quality..

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 04:45:56 2013 No.965163 File: 1.96 MB, 2592x1944, DSC01429.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Got the Profeel Pro today. Pretty damn pro. Now to get some SCART cables... and a SCART to JP21 connector... fucking japs why did you have to change it. Pictured: S-Video N64

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 06:05:22 2013 No.965325 >>965163 It's funny that you found one of those "Profeel" PVMs right after they got brought up in the thread. I also plugged that new keyword into my local market and came back with nothin'. Where are you? My PVM is a rebrand, too. Olympus OEV203

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 06:20:26 2013 No.965347 >>965163 >That sticker Feeling pretty euphoric fedorabro?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 06:31:25 2013 No.965365 >>965325 I know right. I saw that ad and I'm like "Man I'll never see one of those ever" and I was just looking at random stuff on CL and it appeared! I was floored. Also, I live in the Seattle area.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 06:34:55 2013 No.965370 How would you guys say the Panasonic Tau stacks up to the Trinitron?

Anonymous Mon Aug 5 13:05:55 2013 No.966149

>>965370
>the Panasonic Tau
This is a just a brand name for their high-end CRT line (like XBR), not an indicator of any technology (though it may refer to their flat glass line specifically).

>Trinitron
This just means a Sony aperture grille display.

Much better and easier to compare specific models.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 17:52:56 2013 No.966815 File: 1.83 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_20130804_130945.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 18:01:27 2013 No.966830 >>966815 Pretty nice picture! Is that the castlevania on x68000?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 18:14:26 2013 No.966854 >>966830 could be CV Chronicles on PS

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 18:48:56 2013 No.966976 >>966830 The Playstation version of that game >tfw can't get past block 4 in original mode

>>	15.7 Khz Mon Aug 5 19:53:27 2013 No.967181 GroovyArcade (Linux) distribution has been subjected to input lag testing. SDL page flipping causes 3 full frames of lag just like Direct3D. DirectDraw is the only salvation. http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=133194.0 More results here.

15.7 Khz Mon Aug 5 19:59:56 2013 No.967203

>>967181
>Calamity
"Hi papasi,

Welcome and thanks for your videos!"

>Quote from: papasi on July 29, 2013, 05:42:24 pm

'so it has .65 frames at best? that's not better than shmupmame is it?'

"Bear in mind that all my tests are done with v-sync enabled, while I *believe* shmupmame has been tested without v-sync.

When tested GroovyMAME without v-sync, it resulted in no-lag (always compared with your supergun video). However I'm only interested in v-synced emulation."

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 20:05:26 2013 No.967218 >>967181 Why don't they use KMS? Or at leas OpenGL hard syncing. RetroArch does both of those things.

15.7 Khz Mon Aug 5 21:18:26 2013 No.967402

>>967218
Pleb syncing isn't so hot when a game runs at a refresh rate of 55 Hz and you're hard syncing it to your TV at 60 Hz...when you could be using DirectDraw and GroovyUME and outputting the real 55 fps to the same TV, with no lag, just like the real hardware.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 21:44:57 2013 No.967478 >>967402 >Pleb syncing ...what?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 21:48:56 2013 No.967492 Is there an upper limit for horizontal resolutions with low vertical resolutions on a CRT monitor? Right now, I've got 3200x240 and 3200x480 working.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 21:52:57 2013 No.967507 File: 2.87 MB, 1581x1133, humans.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How does /vr/ feel about playing handheld (non-CRT) games on a CRT?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 22:14:26 2013 No.967567 >>967507 It's a bit of a sonofabitch, it would be better on a 24 Khz monitor (dual sync arcade) line doubled or something. 160p can't be done. 320p is too high for a TV.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 22:32:27 2013 No.967615 >>967567 Or you could do 240p with the game image letterboxed with in the frame, like the Super Game Boy did

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Mon Aug 5 22:35:26 2013 No.967623 File: 1.27 MB, 3280x2460, 100_3368.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>967615 wiiMednafen does that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 22:45:26 2013 No.967651 >>967507 Big improvement over playing on the original hardware.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 23:06:57 2013 No.967697 >>967623 Any emulator with decent scaling options can do that

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 5 23:48:26 2013 No.967794 I recently got a component CRT and cables for my wii. What's the best way to optimize my settings? I remember there were a couple softwares floating around for sega systems and such. Anybody got names?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 00:48:56 2013 No.967924 >>967794 240p Test Suite

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 00:51:26 2013 No.967926 >>967623 >CRT filter on a GBA game

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 00:56:26 2013 No.967941 >>967926 Oh, You. Besides it's not a filter he's just playing it on a CRT

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 01:14:56 2013 No.967998 >>962993 What I'm getting here is that nobody actually knows how to fix these CRTs at all. Guess I'm improvising again. The last time I did that I accidentally brushed a live point and blew my ass to the floor. I still have the burn scars on my arm.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 01:27:26 2013 No.968026 >>967924 Thanks! Unfortunately I don't have any of the consoles listed and I don't want to emulate one of them on my ps3 with composite. I guess there's nothing like that as wii homebrew?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 01:34:26 2013 No.968038 >>968026 Use it with a Genesis emulator on your wii.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 01:35:56 2013 No.968041 >>968038 Just realized that, I really appreciate the info thanks a lot!

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 01:58:27 2013 No.968098
File: 1.46 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_013413.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Let's have some late night fun, /vr/

The shadow masks are all in bed.

It's brother against brother.

On the left, KV-1365, manufactured in 1986 with a real NES hooked to it's single cutting edge composite port and some games I thought we would enjoy.

On the right, KV-13FS100 manufactured 2003 with a Wii hooked to it's component port emulating the same games via
Retroarch.

Who's cuisine reigns supreme?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:03:57 2013 No.968113 >>968098 This looks like fun, but your NES is cracked...

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:09:56 2013 No.968130 File: 1.43 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_020410.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>968113 Your ass is cracked

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:22:57 2013 No.968162 >>968130 What's up with the colors there? Just the picture? I mean how did yellow turn into burgundy?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:23:27 2013 No.968164 File: 1.52 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_020417.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:26:56 2013 No.968175 >>968162 The triangle logo flashes between multiple colors ranging from bright yellow to dark brown, like the coin counter in the original SMB.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:26:56 2013 No.968176 >>968162 Triforce piece strobes between dark red, goldenrod yellow, and almost white. You're lucky. 99% of other troopers wouldn't have let this slide

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:28:27 2013 No.968181

>>968162
The colors are accurate. I matched as best I could. The 1986 has no "tint" knob. I can only turn "color" up or down and this looks best, it's about 60%. I also can't get the 2003 to match no matter how I try this is the closest it gets. For lack of a better description, white is far redder on the 1986 and bluer on the 2003.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:35:56 2013 No.968205 File: 1.37 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_022932.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Notice how the cliffs are darker green on the 1986 but Link's tunic is lighter green. I think it's because he's a sprite.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:44:56 2013 No.968231 File: 1.27 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_024259.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:47:57 2013 No.968242 File: 1.47 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_024623.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:51:56 2013 No.968252 File: 1.52 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_024940.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 1986

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 02:54:57 2013 No.968256 File: 1.50 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_024931.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 2003

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:03:56 2013 No.968269 Actually those are reversed. My timestamps fooled me until I looked closely at them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:13:26 2013 No.968287 Oh, wow, the newer TV looks better, what a surprise. I'll never understand /vr/'s obsession with CRTs. The only thing they're good for is avoiding video lag.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:13:56 2013 No.968289 File: 1.57 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_030703.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 2003

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:22:27 2013 No.968309 File: 1.56 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_032043.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 1986

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:22:27 2013 No.968313 >>968309 King looks fucked up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:25:57 2013 No.968319 >>968287 This isn't just about old trinitron vs new trinitron. It's composite vs component, NES vs Retroarch, literally old school vs new school right there side by side. If you don't get it that's fine but why shit up the thread?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:26:26 2013 No.968321 >>968309 Tiles look kind of better in this one, it doesn't repeat anywhere near as much due to how bad the image is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:28:57 2013 No.968325 >>968319 >new school What does that make Retroarch+RGB+PVM then? Master Race?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:32:56 2013 No.968329 File: 1.24 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_033043.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:36:57 2013 No.968337

>>968325
I have some pictures of NES via composite vs retroarch via component on my PVM. The difference isn't as great as you might think.

I've actually been looking pretty hard for a small trinitron with component inputs lately and I finally found one today. That's why these posts.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:38:26 2013 No.968339 >>968337 I found the difference to be significant, but then again my Famicom has jailbars.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:42:26 2013 No.968349 File: 1.50 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_033803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 1986

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:45:26 2013 No.968353 File: 1.51 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_033836.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 2003

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:48:26 2013 No.968360 >>968349 >>968353 I thought that demon (?) was a mushroom in the 1986 one. Facial expression of the big guy is much better in the new one, much more menacing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:49:26 2013 No.968365 >>968339 My NES it's pretty legit

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:49:26 2013 No.968367
File: 5 KB, 260x260, !!eGZiRQCWM~$(KGrHqV,!iEE1KWBWJvdBNVu2QQW6!~~_32-260x260-0-0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>968329
yea, okay, you win. Getting a good crt is important. I cant fight it anymore.

I have a Symphonic ST420FF 20"

Is this good or should I get a better one? I can't find a list of specs (only manuals) online.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:51:56 2013 No.968368 >>968367 I'm on my phone right now for the camera but I'll look it up for you later. It's hard to tell who exactly made a "Symphonic" for Walmart and different ones were probably made by different manufacturers

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:53:56 2013 No.968372 >>968368 I bought it at best buy or circuit city back in probably 2005-07. It was discounted because these fancy new 720p plasmas were the hot new thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:54:56 2013 No.968374 File: 1.56 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_034612.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 03:56:26 2013 No.968379 File: 1.55 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_034626.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:05:56 2013 No.968395

>>968372
It seems likely that it's a good crt if it's that new. You could have scart cables for all your systems and a scart to yuv transcoder for less than it would probably take to get you a PVM and you could have them sooner too.

It's really up to your personal preference. If you like the way my little 2003 Tron looks better then maybe keep your eyes peeled for one. I got both of these for 99 cents each at different thrift stores.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:09:56 2013 No.968406

>>968367
I think thats a rebranded Funai, with an inline shadow mask (a.k.a. slot mask).
These are generally better than those using triad shadow masks where the phosphors are arranged in a semi-scattered pattern.

It has both Composite and S-Video, so thats good.
Use S-Video whenever possible and you can get some pretty good picture out of it.

Its definitely better than one of those shitty cheapo CRTs with convexed glass and RF only.

In my opinion, its not as good as an aperture grille display like one of the 'trons, but its pretty decent.

If you're out CRT hunting, try finding a display with Component or RGB (This can either be DE-15 VGA, EIA Multiport(SCART), or a BNC coaxial connection).

Sony's Trinitron, XBR, PVM/BVMs are excellent.
For retrogaming, stay clear of the WEGAs or any 16:9 displays. They use internal scalers like modern LCDs that fuck up the picture.

I also like the Sharp, Mitsubishi, and Viewsonic aperture-grille based offerings.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:11:26 2013 No.968409
File: 2.21 MB, 178x174, uhhhhh.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>968395
>It seems likely that it's a good crt if it's that new. You could have scart cables for all your systems and a scart to yuv transcoder for less than it would probably take to get you a PVM and you could have them sooner too.

Ye......yea.......okay. So....so, it's good then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:30:57 2013 No.968448 File: 1.52 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_041149.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:33:56 2013 No.968454 File: 1.51 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_041144.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:35:26 2013 No.968459

>>968242
>left
looks a bit like a little east/west error because of the pillars, or maybe the deflection magnetism of both tv interferes with each other.

However 1986 NES+Composite or 2003 Wii/Emulator+YUV/RGB is for me a personal thing,
I prefer the real NES because of zapper games and the earth tiles in sunsoft games look better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:36:26 2013 No.968464 >>968406 Huh? WTF do widescreen CRTs need to digitally rescale the video? My PVM can display 16:9 content in a letterbox without any of that, it can even do 720p and 1080i.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:36:56 2013 No.968463 File: 1.55 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130806_041014.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>968454 Damn I got some real bad bars in that one

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:43:27 2013 No.968476 >>968459 There are certainly advantages to the real hardware. Interestingly, I can now personally attest that the nestopia core is not perfectly accurate when it comes to timing. It slowly, slowly gains on the real NES.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 04:45:57 2013 No.968483 >>968464 They do when you feed them sd

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 05:03:56 2013 No.968519 >>968464 Widescreen CRTs have a minimum resolution of 480p just because of the way they're built. Anything below that gets scaled.

>>	15.7 Khz Tue Aug 6 07:13:25 2013 No.968663 >>968476 >>968476 Pleb syncing in action. That's classic RetroArch and its magic not Nestopia.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 09:16:26 2013 No.968863 >>968663 Nope. Nestopia has a known issue with its audio timing

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Tue Aug 6 12:44:26 2013 No.969236 >>968464 >My PVM can display 16:9 content in a letterbox without any of that, it can even do 720p and 1080i. It says Multi-Format on the front, yes?

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 13:12:26 2013 No.969295

>>968863
Yes but you see, he was talking about the video. Hard syncing makes the console being emulated run at the wrong speed in order to avoid vsyncing. This is why RetroArch makes Nestopia lose synchronicity on the Wii / PVM / component setup.

This is like when a guy with a multisync LCD with info HUD ran a Wii U Super Metroid vs. Wii Super Metroid. The Virtual Console version of Super Metroid is superior to RetroArch, because RetroArch runs it half like the Wii-U does--at a constant 60 Hz refresh rate.

The Wii Virtual Console, however, has gone beyond SquarePusher's arrogant refusal to "cater to 240p" and actually made the correct SNES sync rate happen--59.something Hz. This is of course in addition to the perfect 256x224 resolution; RetroArch maintains this resolution but loses the sync.

This becomes much more of a big deal when you're emulating arcade games. Many run closer to 55 Hz than to 60 Hz. Hard syncing these games has been a big problem in MAME long before RetroArch was around.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 13:31:57 2013 No.969356 Commodore 1084 /thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:01:56 2013 No.969427 >>969295 I'm pretty sure the Virtual Console isn't at all accurate, especially not compared to RetroArch with bSNES

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:06:26 2013 No.969436

>>969295
>>969427
I don't have any virtual console games but the difference in speeds isn't particularly great, maybe one second after twenty minutes and isometimes it falls back. Maybe I should pull out my top loader and do some NES vs NES to establish if the timing is even entirely standard between real hardware. I have a few doubles. I have like three copies of Faxanadu lol.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:14:26 2013 No.969448

>>969427
If you're suggesting that CRT_Emudriver with the proper Radeon, pushing a 15.7-16.x Khz vertical sync through your VGA to RGB at the proper 256x240 non-interlaced resolution, at 60.090476 Hz vertical frequency, to an aperture grille CRT with external sync, then yeah: you are emulating more accurately than the Virtual Console. You will need to run the CRT at the exact frequency of the SNES, and match RetroArch's hard sync feature exactly to this value.

But I thought we were talking about RetroArch on Wii side by side with a real Nintendo. I don't know what bsnes has to do with NES emulation, nor do I believe it will ever be a viable core on the Wii. You're free to dispute this, citing your being "pretty sure" again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:15:57 2013 No.969452 >>969295 So don't use hard syncing? That's what you're saying? I don't use that feature.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:16:27 2013 No.969453 >>969448 Make "SNES" in first paragraph "NES"

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:17:57 2013 No.969457 >>969452 What do you use then? V-syncing? That introduces lag, nullifying your CRT advantage. You could use no v-sync and no hard syncing, but will RetroArch on Wii cooperate? If the screen tears, it's not actually running at the right speed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:19:56 2013 No.969460 >>969457 >That introduces lag, How much? And is there an objective, quantifiable way of testing input lag? People always talk of lag, but I want to get some idea of the scale, so some numbers would be nice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:21:26 2013 No.969465 And remember, all modern Sony TVs, from the K* to the *VM, can handle a range of vertical frequencies (through 16 something Khz) as well as horizontal (55.5 to 61 Hz).

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:22:26 2013 No.969471 >>969460 At least 0.65 frames per second, up to full 3 frames. Depends on what emulator, this is a standard range. I've seen up to 9 frames in recent tests.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 14:27:57 2013 No.969483

>>969460
Before you do tests you should make sure you're reducing all possible bottlenecks. USB usually samples at 125 Mhz or something...but it can do a full 1000 Mhz. MAME can take advantage of this since version .107 or something...can RetroArch? If not, can one tamper with one's USB functionality? Yes, there are utilities.

So, you make sure your controller is tight like that. You must wire an LED light to indicate at the speed of light when the button is pressed. A high speed camera and real hardware on multiple displays are used to determine a baseline control input lag value.

The high speed camera and light up button are then used to measure response times under various conditions for the emulator you are testing. This is a big deal in the Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo competitive community - they only use SchmupMAME due to these tests, yet the recent GroovyMAME tests have beaten them (without V-sync -- with it's still slower).

However, with GroovyMAME you should be able to eliminate the need for v-syncing or hard syncing by running the monitor at the exact resolution and refresh rate.

As a side note, now that Calamity has determined zero input lag, the thing to do is now turn your PVM upside down and rotate the display 180 degrees in the emulator. Due to the way the electron beam draws, this allows the main action to be updated first instead of last.

That's right, no matter what CRTs will always draw somewhere on the screen before elsewhere.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 15:22:26 2013 No.969620

>>969483
>majority of post
Fine, a nice collection of knowledge that is a few degrees more refined than the camera tests I saw conducted years ago when researching this issue, perhaps presented with a trace of light sarcasm (reeeeeeeal difficult to tell).

>...the thing to do is now turn your PVM upside down and rotate the display 180 degrees in the emulator. Due to the way the electron beam draws, this allows the main action to be updated first instead of last.

Within the span of one scan! What a fucking world! And make sure never to jump, duck, or move horizontally, because that will fuck up your ability to gauge exactly when the action is happening!

I fucking love it when fanboy broscience goes too far.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 18:18:58 2013 No.969939 [DELETED]

File: 1.36 MB, 2560x1920, screenpic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Is there any simple way to fix this shit or am I SOL? It's a Sylvania flat panel, and I've hated it for as long as I've had it (for many reasons), but it's all I've got. If you can't tell from my crappy picture, the edges of the window are supposed to be vertical, but are bowed.

The only other CRT I have is a CRT computer monitor.

Additional info: the image appears straight and correct for a second if I turn the TV off then on, but as soon as it reaches full color/brightness, I can actually see it quickly bow out to the state it's at.

Anonymous Tue Aug 6 18:21:57 2013 No.969943

Any way to enable hard syncing in RetroArch under Windows with a ArcadeVGA 3000?

It seems as though it doesn't support the ARB_sync extension.

>RetroArch: Detecting screen resolution 320x240.
>RetroArch: [WGL]: Setting fullscreen to 256x240 on device \\.\DISPLAY5.
>RetroArch: [WGL]: wglSwapInterval(1)
>RetroArch: Querying GL extension: ARB_sync => doesn't exist
>RetroArch: GL: Using resolution 256x240

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 18:27:27 2013 No.969961 >>969939 >flat panel If it's a flat screen CRT, it's not a flat panel. Might have to look up how to get in your service menu to change geometry settings.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 19:27:27 2013 No.970116 >>968325 No, RetroArch+VGA+FW900 is master race

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 19:35:28 2013 No.970136 >>970116 The only thing 16:9 CRTs are good for are 7th gen consoles.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 19:35:58 2013 No.970138 >>970116 RetroArch will never be Master Race because it isnt original hardware.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 19:40:28 2013 No.970149 >>970116 >master race Please go back to >>>/v/ polite sage for replying to shitposting

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 19:45:27 2013 No.970163 This thread has gotten really autistic lately... >>970149 >stop using common 4chan expressions! >>>/reddit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 19:54:27 2013 No.970187 >>970136 >what is letterboxing >>970138 original hardware can't do save states, rewinding, fast forward, netplay, lossless recording, ffmpeg recording, pixel shaders, remap controls, etc.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 20:44:57 2013 No.970321 >>970187 Come on, Man.Anon was just defending you then you say shit like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 20:49:58 2013 No.970331 >>970163 Get over it, we don't do that /v/ shit here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 6 23:58:28 2013 No.970747 >>970331 x2 "master race" is the lamest thing going on these boards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 07:41:58 2013 No.971723 File: 799 KB, 2048x1536, DSC00248.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>970331 >/v/ I give you some Battletoads. The red and blue gloom around the symbols is caused by the camera. Also bump.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 08:18:58 2013 No.971765 File: 2.16 MB, 3000x2250, fdsghjk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Master System II, pure RGB mod, SilverCrest CRT Oh and it was overclocked, hence the fucked up graphics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 11:38:04 2013 No.971974 File: 279 KB, 1024x647, c79830d61cd2fb64fa34b2b854b097e7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Found a BVM-1415p for $25 plus shipping. Looks a bit strange, but it's the only one i've found that is larger than 9"

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 11:39:05 2013 No.971976 File: 259 KB, 942x1005, mon2i.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>971974 the inputs it has. Shame it doesnt have S-video.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 11:43:34 2013 No.971983 >>971976 I see RGB and Component inputs.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 11:50:04 2013 No.972001

I have a 32" Sony Trinitron that has some curved geometry (I think that's what it's called) that's been driving me crazy. Last night I messed around in the service menu and while I wasn't able to make it 100% better I did improve the problem.

Except now instead of just the curve in the upper corner there's a slight wave effect that goes down the entire side. Am I boned?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 11:57:04 2013 No.972007 >>972001 Maybe you should attempt to take a photo of it, or try to draw it. Because i can't comprehend your description.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 12:11:06 2013 No.972024 File: 2.75 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_1437[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>972007 Along the left side there you should see what I'm talking about

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 12:12:04 2013 No.972028 >>972024 Pincushioning, just Google what to do, it should have its own adjustment.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 12:12:06 2013 No.972025 >>972007 He's got pincushioning. I can comprehend being an obstinate dick.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:11:04 2013 No.972124 I've got multiple monitors setup and I want to use my CRT one for emulation, the problem is, the CRT monitor is not my main display device, and most emulators doesn't support full-screen mode on secondary displays, is there a hack/solution for this?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:31:34 2013 No.972174 >>972124 That's a good question. I'm planning to build a touch screen home theater pc in my living room out of a laptop with a busted screen but I'd like to be able to send authentic resolutions out of its svideo port over to the TVs

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:32:34 2013 No.972175 >>972124 As far as I've tried, no. You just have to switch the CRT to be your main display device when emulating.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:33:34 2013 No.972178 File: 84 KB, 626x348, 1375876899112.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I use CRTs for Counter-strike, Quake, rhythm games and speedrunning not fucking SNES games

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Wed Aug 7 13:35:05 2013 No.972182 >>972178 What if you speedrun SNES games?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:36:35 2013 No.972184 >>972182 i dont think that requires the timing and complex movements like SM64

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:37:34 2013 No.972187 >>972184 Then I guess you don't know much about SNES gamed

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 13:39:35 2013 No.972193 >>972178 Well if you don't want your picture to look like shit, use a CRT to play you SNES on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 15:01:21 2013 No.972369 >>972025 Me too, anon. Me too. However, I think your detector might need calibration; it may be running a little sensitive.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 15:42:28 2013 No.972456 >>972178 You're missing the point idiot. Your SNES will look like shit on an HDTV unless its rear projection. Fucking retard nigger fucking gook. Go kill yourself stupid shitfuck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 15:48:19 2013 No.972475 >>972178 I bet you stretch/crop the aspect ratio too stupid fucker. >>>/jp/ Fuck touhou fag

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 16:28:25 2013 No.972574
File: 818 KB, 2048x1536, DSC00252.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>972475
>touhou
Speaking of shooters that spams the screen with projectiles and enemies.
The Famicom/NES game Summer Carnival '92 is much more superior, because it's runs fast and smooth on a piece of hardware released in 1983 and it's more sophisticated than the most 80s arcade shooters.
Also runs perfect on the PAL NES just slower on 50hz but glitch free, most other NTSC games (despite of being more simple) don't work well on a PAL NES.
Playing this game on a CRT with the real NES is beyond amazing and totally different than emulator with a LCD.
The games demo mode always shows GAME OVER on the screen.
Taking a photo of a high-motion game mostly results into a weird looking picture but here you can see how fast it is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 17:25:26 2013 No.972735 File: 1.53 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130807_171607.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 17:26:26 2013 No.972741 File: 1.34 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130807_171946.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It really is fast. Really fast.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 17:31:27 2013 No.972752 File: 655 KB, 2048x1536, DSC00250.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>972735 >>972741 >Trinitron brofist

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 17:33:27 2013 No.972757 File: 822 KB, 2048x1536, DSC00251.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 17:36:27 2013 No.972762 >>972741 >>972735 Nice RGB, doesn't seem to have any jailbars.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 17:42:28 2013 No.972783 File: 1.39 MB, 2560x1920, IMG_20130807_173957.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>972762 Yeah well.. I'm the double 13 guy that was doing the demo earlier in this thread.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:00:22 2013 No.972837

>>972783
That's why the lovecinema sticker was so familiar.
However, but my Recca runs on a real PAL NES.
Also i posted this >>954771 earlier.
It was my family's former living room TV in the 90s.
Recently i hacked 16:9 support (for modern stuff) in, using a self programmed PIC and 2 relays (i just switches between 2 settings of the V-Size and Corner Correction).
While i installed it, i took a lot of pictures of the mod and the life extension improvements from my dad (just a fan, some extra capacitors and drilled venting holes on the back case).

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:20:25 2013 No.972919

>>972837
Sweet you should do an RGB mod while you're in there. I was going to try one on the 1986 Tron since it's composite only but now that I have its younger brother I think I'll keep them as a pair to use in the upstairs as supplementary monitors to the HD. They're so small and cute and the 86 matches the wood pannelling.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:35:27 2013 No.972969
File: 8 KB, 950x400, shiftysync.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>972919
My TV Can do RGB via SCART 1 and S-Video via SCART 2
Both of them can do Composite.
S-Video doesn't look so nice, more like composite without dot-crawl and cross-color glitches.
Now guess which one i use for my NES and which one i use for rest (SNES, PAL N64 with RGB, NGC; DVD player and DVB-S receiver).
Also most European SCART TVs have the RGB shift problem (it's displaced a little bit to the left) which is mostly unnoticed because most TV devices output allot of overscan, but on SNES it's very visible (about 8 pixels).
I fixed it myself building a little shifting box with a SCART socket, SCART plug and 12V DC input.
Pic is the schematic (not mine) i also replaced R4 with 3,4K because 6,8K didn't gave me a stable picture.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:38:29 2013 No.972984
File: 47 KB, 600x450, 00Q0Q_2mRA7bPnmox_600x450.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>972969
I just recently found a Sony HD LCD that has SCART for sale on my local Craigslist and I'd like to get it but the picture has a bunch of noise on it like the power supply is bad or something.

It's extremely rare to see SCART here in the US, obviously.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:41:29 2013 No.972991 >>972984 This is quite weird, but is this analogue Television via RF? It looks like it.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:48:19 2013 No.973001
File: 38 KB, 600x450, 00Q0Q_2ADhdXuuHOl_600x450[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>972991
I think it probably is and if I go look at it I'll take a netbook to feed it VGA but you can see the same image on the TV behind it without the interference. Here's another picture that was posted in a relist.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:55:20 2013 No.973015

>>973001
He probably had bad reception or cable problems.
But it should be obvious that i was a former TV technician (with /vr/ and technology as hobby) and i can tell you from my experience that modern flatscreens usually last 4-6 years.
As soonest they start to malfunction and if it's not caused by the Power supply or the Inverter board then it will be mostly hopeless.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 18:56:20 2013 No.973018

Hm now I don't know what to think.
>>972984
This ad from earlier this week has the model as a KDL-26U4000, which has SCART
>>973001
THIS ad has the model as KDL-26M4000 which does not have SCART

I bet he just put the wrong model up in his original ad and somehow typo'd my excitement up.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:06:23 2013 No.973038

>>973015
Then I'm living my life on borrowed time. All of my HDTVs were bought used with problems. My big plasma is absolutely unacceptable on RF and I think its hdmi doesn't work too but on VGA and YUV it's clear and bright as the day it was made. I have another that for some reasom turns off spontaneously. I discovered the AC jack was loose and I ended up breaking it completely loose so I rebuilt that but it still does it sometimes. I used solid copper wire but it was only about 20 gauge so maybe I should do several next time I have it apart. My other one that works thinks that the volume down/left arrow button on the TV is being held down all the time but I discovered if I actually did hold it down, it no longer thinks that so I soldered it closed and just use the remote if I ever need to go left or use volume down.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:14:24 2013 No.973057

>>973038
I judged them based on the manufacture date and ic datecodes, also my fellow technicians also said similar things. The most flastscreen TVs were made mostly 4-6 years ago when i tried to repaired them for customers.
I don't really have a clue how much they used it and how they used it, and how it was set up. Some customers just brought it into 'oldschool' TV workshop.
One thing, not everybody knows what venting holes are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:19:24 2013 No.973078 >>973057 I used to just leave the backs completely off but now I have a kid. I know HDTVs are less lethal (except maybe the plasma) but still.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:32:28 2013 No.973101

I need to address the whole SNES = 59.x Hz vs. 60.09 Hz thing. People were using a Framemeister Mini somewhere, dicking around with the locked output vs. unlocked.

The SNES feeds it a signal of 60.09 Hz, and that's what you want. But to sync it to a High Def TV, sometimes it was coming out at 59.x like a Wii VC runs SNES at. Then sometimes if it was locked it was a flat 60.00 Hz. The correct thing is to pass it through lossless at 60.09 Hz.

So the Wii Virtual Console probably hard syncs the same way RetroArch does on Wii. There's a crystal or something in the NES and SNES that's making this 60.09 Hz the number, Wii has no crystal. Doesn't need one, needs clever programming -- but like SquarePusher says, show him how to do it on an XBox 1 first and he'll do it on the Wii for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:37:30 2013 No.973115 >>973101 >http://wiki.superfamicom.org/snes/show/Timing Also TVs in general accept a deviation of about 5%. >Wii has no crystal My PAL NGC has a 13,5Mhz (BT.601 standard). Also some DVD players i saw had a 27Mhz (BT.601 x2).

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:47:19 2013 No.973129 >>973115 Go on and deviate all you want, you've already had it proven to you in this thread side by side that you're running the game at the wrong speed by choice with your magic crystal. Good luck with 55 Hz R-Type at 60 Hz.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 19:48:19 2013 No.973130 >>973115 >TVs in general accept a deviation of about 5%. Therefore, RetroArch is fucking you over since it could be outputting the proper vertical frequency but chooses not to.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 20:21:27 2013 No.973189 >>973129 >you're running the game at the wrong speed by choice with your magic crystal. Who fucking cares? 99% of people won't notice the subtle difference anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 20:23:27 2013 No.973192 >>973130 I'm pretty sure they don't want to because it would be a per-game hackfest

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 21:00:22 2013 No.973292 >>973192 You must be talking about FBA in RetroArch, since every other system requires only setting the resolution once, for the console. If you want frame-accurate lagless arcade emulation, you should already know about GroovyUME.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 21:02:22 2013 No.973298 >>973292 >per-game hack-fest SwitchRes 0.14 much?

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 21:14:25 2013 No.973330

How would I calculate the vertical frequency of my eView 17f2 at it's lowest resolution of 640x480 @ 60 Hz (according to ATI Catalyst Control Center) when I don't know its horizontal frequency? I want to know if I'd be able to safely do 15 khz resolutions on this thing with something like Soft-15khz.

Also, It's reported native resolution is 1280x1024 @60 hz. Since that's its "native" resolution (which apparently CRTs aren't supposed to have), does that mean any other resolution I set in Windows or CCC is actually scaled to 1280x1024?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 21:26:27 2013 No.973360 >>973330 Useless, its horizontal range is 31 Khz to 70 Khz. Vertical frequency max is 160 Hz so you can do that 120 Hz / black frame insertion thing people are into. Makes the screen too dark though and you'll end up cranking the brightness.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 21:40:30 2013 No.973405

>>973360
> you can do that 120 Hz / black frame insertion
That's what I was trying to avoid. I wanted the picture to use the entire screen without stretching or borders. I could always use a regular old CRT TV though, just wanted to be able to send RGB over the eView's VGA.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 21:43:30 2013 No.973415 >>973360 >>973405 I wanted the picture to use the entire screen without stretching, borders OR scaling*

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:15:25 2013 No.973708

>>973415
Told you son, your range is 31 Khz to 70 Khz. 60 Hz to 160 Hz vertical.

Any Sony TV handles 15.7 Khz to 16.67 Khz horizontal and 55.5 Hz to 61.0 Hz vertical. You want a TV. Of course, the computer that puts out the signal you want spits RGB with external sync.

Which is why I'm still waiting for these PVM people to hook the computer up and blast pixels accurately.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:24:27 2013 No.973747

Here's what the SwitchRes line looks like for a regular arcade monitor:

monitor custom
crt_range0 15700-16670,49.50-65.00,2.000,4.700,8.000,0.064,0.160,1.056,0,0,192,288,448,576

From this, you can see that not just a Sony, but any normal arcade monitor can do that 15.7 to 16.67 Khz horizontal range. Since the arcade monitor isn't a TV, it doesn't flip out and think you're feeding it a PAL signal...so it can go from 49.50 Hz to a full 65 Hz vertical. At the end are the min/max non-interlaced and interlaced resolutions, as you'd expect. The weird stuff in the middle are the front/back porch settings and stuff, highly technical.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:26:27 2013 No.973760 I came http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBqm4ThJxw

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:30:28 2013 No.973771 >>973760 Come again? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_bJTpF9qYc

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:33:28 2013 No.973779 File: 105 KB, 462x313, scanlines3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] New SCAYNLOINS with GroovyMAME and new host http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67-zRVsHhjk

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:34:28 2013 No.973783 >>973779 Dual SCART TV GroovyMAME comparison side by side.

>>	KyaDash !kDashing02 Wed Aug 7 23:35:28 2013 No.973791 File: 1.71 MB, 3280x2460, 100_3606.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>973708 All in due time. Bright screens are always so hard to get good pictures of.

Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:37:29 2013 No.973795
File: 70 KB, 842x468, real.emulation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>973783
>>973779
See this part that flashes on for a split second? This is your holy grail, everyone with a 15 Khz monitor. That's perfect CPS2 framerate and resolution for AvP. Who needs syncing when you're already synced? No input lag. Proven.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:41:29 2013 No.973808 >>973779 This video really shows how digital processing on a CRT will screw over your accuracy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 7 23:43:29 2013 No.973813 >>973795 Oh shit actually he needs to tweak his SwitchRes presets, his framerate is slightly off necessitating vsync.

Anonymous Thu Aug 8 06:07:24 2013 No.974635

It's a common misunderstanding to think that just because you run at the native frame rate, v-sync is no longer necessary. Even if you achieved *perfect* native frame rate -which is impossible in practice due to dotclock granularity- you'd still need v-sync in order to avoid tearing. In the hypothetical case of perfect frame rate, static tearing would still happen. You need v-sync to synchronize the video memory updates with the CRT's vertical retrace: you can't expect this to happen magically. As a consequence of this, the emulation speed gets adjusted to the CRT's frame rate, not the opposite.

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/vr/ - Retro Games